Andrew Wiggins and Guaranteed Contracts

[eliteballer]

NBA needs to to 3 and 4 year length for max contracts.....it's a joke when players like him get deals like this.

[DMAVS41]

NBA needs to to 3 and 4 year length for max contracts.....it's a joke when players like him get deals like this.

Kind of agree, but of course a franchise could just let Wiggins walk rather than give him a 5 year deal he didn't come close to earning with his on court play and effort.

Wiggins is a bad example because he's never even been a good player...so if a franchise is dumb enough to give him this contract...it is really on them.

[sixerfan82]

Kind of agree, but of course a franchise could just let Wiggins walk rather than give him a 5 year deal he didn't come close to earning with his on court play and effort.

Wiggins is a bad example because he's never even been a good player...so if a franchise is dumb enough to give him this contract...it is really on them.

This!

Why should the league be responsible for an organizations lack thereof? Let Wiggins walk and he'll quickly learn his value isn't what he thinks it is because he can't get it done on the court.

He's the wingman equivalent of Jahlil Okafor, another player who doesn't want to play defense, doesn't want to expand his game, but wants playing time and a contract.

[Akrazotile]

The union exists to protect players like Wiggins.

Valuable players dont need the union. Players who cant compete need the union.

The union protects players who arent good enough to earn what the union gives them.

[Kblaze8855]

A healthy 21 year old putting up 24ppg is gonna get paid no matter who the gm is. Really....how many 21 year olds having 29ppg months like he did in 17 don’t get paid? Forget the 80 points in 2 days? When he appeared to be able to shoot? Was jumping out the gym spinning into the lane and appearing to get better?

Rules can’t protect you from that guy getting a big deal.

Guys like that always get locked up. And gms want that....they don’t wanna lose the great ones a year early because a few regress.

[Akrazotile]

Kind of agree, but of course a franchise could just let Wiggins walk rather than give him a 5 year deal he didn't come close to earning with his on court play and effort.

Wiggins is a bad example because he's never even been a good player...so if a franchise is dumb enough to give him this contract...it is really on them.


This is also very true. The Wolves are 100% to blame for their terrible decision to give that contract.

The union gets players in general better contract deals than theyre worth, but I dont mean to excuse the Wolves

[Akrazotile]

A healthy 21 year old putting up 24ppg is gonna get paid no matter who the gm is. Really....how many 21 year olds having 29ppg months like he did in 17 don’t get paid? Forget the 80 points in 2 days? When he appeared to be able to shoot? Was jumping out the gym spinning into the lane and appearing to get better?

Rules can’t protect you from that guy getting a big deal.

Guys like that always get locked up. And gms want that....they don’t wanna lose the great ones a year early because a few regress.


He got paid way more than he’s worth in large part because the organization was afraid it would look “cheap” if they let him walk to another team for a max they wouldnt pay.

In reality, overpaying is almost always a terrible idea. Wolves should have offered him what he’s worth, and said “if you can do better, then walk.”

It’s pathetic that teams dont have the guts to do that ever. Everyone gets overpaid. It ultimately comes down to the fact that fans are stupid. They dont understand salary cap stuff. All they understand is the guy whose jersey they bought is suddenly gone, and they blame the team and wont show up to games.

Teams are at the mercy of public opinion, and the public is stupid. Therefore even smart businessmen end up doing stupid things to stay in the public favor.

[DMAVS41]

This is also very true. The Wolves are 100% to blame for their terrible decision to give that contract.

The union gets players in general better contract deals than theyre worth, but I dont mean to excuse the Wolves’ own poor decision making. They didnt have to pay Wiggins. They chose to.

In fairness, I've just always been super low on Wiggins since he entered the league (was really high on him in college)

What Blaze says above is true...and I'd almost always agree with it, but just not in the case of Wiggins when you also have KAT on the team.

Obviously letting him walk is tough, but I don't think they ultimately needed to pick either or.

They just could have traded him...which is what they should have done back in 17 and likely should still now if a team is willing to take a chance on him....which someone probably is because of his potential.

[DMAVS41]

[QUOTE=Akrazotile]He got paid way more than he

[eliteballer]

Player movement is also good for the NBA, allowing more variability in competing teams and give teams more flexibility to change up the direction of franchises quickly if they need to reboot.....3-4 years is a lifetime in the NBA.

[eliteballer]

A healthy 21 year old putting up 24ppg is gonna get paid no matter who the gm is. Really....how many 21 year olds having 29ppg months like he did in 17 don’t get paid? Forget the 80 points in 2 days? When he appeared to be able to shoot? Was jumping out the gym spinning into the lane and appearing to get better?

Rules can’t protect you from that guy getting a big deal.

Guys like that always get locked up. And gms want that....they don’t wanna lose the great ones a year early because a few regress.

Empty numbers...people all over the net were pointing out the holes in his game. Guys shouldn't be paid literally tens and hundreds of millions almost purely on potential.

That doesn't even take into account actually productive guys checking out once they get their deals.

[highwhey]

https://media.giphy.com/media/QxjDI7kfgrwju/giphy.gif
https://i.imgur.com/M3ZbIYL.png

[DMAVS41]

I'm also curious, as we've debated it a number of times on here...

How someone can be in favor of the Wiggins contract and not the Porter contract?

Wiggins was never as good as Porter was the year before he got paid...never really close as Porter could do real things that any team would want like drill 3's, play off the ball, defend at an above average clip...

And not like Porter was old or something...he was 23...

:confusedshrug:

[Kblaze8855]

Who doesn

[DMAVS41]

Who doesn’t have holes at 21? Tim Duncan?

Even Kobe and Lebron had to work on shooting. Kobe was still a 25% 3 point shooter at 23.

You’re not supposed to be a finished product at that age. It was reasonable to assume he would keep getting better. Historically what are the odds he wouldn’t?

He was going to get paid no matter who decided to do it. There is always someone willing to give a young guy doing numbers a tremendous amount of money.

Once Conley got the 150 million we all knew the floodgates had opened. Wiggins was getting paid no matter what.


Could you explain why you think the Wiggins contract was fine, but the Porter contract was akin to "negotiating with terrorists"?

Forget, of course, all the specifics of the cap situation for the Wizards...just in a vacuum, why is paying a player like Wiggins a bigger contract than what Porter got...so much better than paying Porter?

[eliteballer]

[QUOTE=Kblaze8855]Who doesn

[Kblaze8855]

Could you explain why you think the Wiggins contract was fine, but the Porter contract was akin to "negotiating with terrorists"?

Forget, of course, all the specifics of the cap situation for the Wizards...just in a vacuum, why is paying a player like Wiggins a bigger contract than what Porter got...so much better than paying Porter?


You

[Kblaze8855]

I'm not arguing WHY he got it, in terms of the mentality behind it. I'm arguing that we can mitigate the damage done by contracts of this nature by altering the structure.

We don't need 4-5 year max deals, shortening the length of them will help reduce the long-term damage of bums like Wiggins getting awarded big deals based on potential.


And I don

[DMAVS41]

You’re fine paying role players on teams that can’t win 25% of the cap. I don’t care anymore. 400 posts across 8 topics aren’t enough? I don’t care that much about players that actually matter.

Just curious.

Porter was/is better than Wiggins....and you being ok with Wiggins getting a worse deal just doesn't make much sense.

Porter was gonna get paid as well by other teams...like he did...

And he was young and vastly improving...in real areas that benefit most teams.

Just seems odd. You can keep calling him a role player...which he is, but he's quite good at it and brings real positives to a team.

Wiggins isn't even a role player...he's a chucker that doesn't defend, hustle, score efficiently, or make his teammates better.

Yea, I'm good with paying less for the better player...:confusedshrug:

And, of course, the Wizards were in a very specific circumstance that forced their hand. Which makes the decision much easier...the Wolves could have traded Wiggins and would have been able to get something back.

[Kblaze8855]

If you wanna give me another few thousand words on Stacey Augmon for 26 million vs Isiah Rider for 29 I

[DMAVS41]

Fair enough.

:cheers:

[BigTicket]

[QUOTE=Kblaze8855]A healthy 21 year old putting up 24ppg is gonna get paid no matter who the gm is. Really....how many 21 year olds having 29ppg months like he did in 17 don

[DMAVS41]

Even that year the team should have known better. He scored a decent amount, but he was a bad player by every other metric, and I mean every single one. He's a below average shooter in today's NBA, and he is terrible at rebounding, passing and defending. His plus minus stats have been consistently negative his whole career.

Yep.

And it is no surprise that ever since the Wolves have become competitive and not playing meaningless games on a 30 win team...his play has gotten even worse.

Now, he's still talented. Still has potential, but as I said in the other thread about him...it is not just "advanced stats"...

He does not defend. He does not know how to run a pick / roll. He does not create well for others. He does not shoot well consistently. He takes bad shots...etc.

He has simply not been a good player at any point in his career....

Can he be? Sure, but he hasn't been so far.