If harden wins a chip and fmvp this year would he be ranked above Steph?

[Bronbron23]

If harden does this he would have everything Steph has and more. They'll both have mvp's, scoring titles and one chip as the teams best player. harden will also have a fmvp though which is probably bigger than all of those things. Who would you take?

[superduper]

If Harden goes all the way this year he would definitely be in the conversation but Steph would still have a slight edge.

[Manny98]

Harden winning a ring? :roll: :roll: :roll:

[superduper]

Harden winning a ring? :roll: :roll: :roll:

LeGOAT wouldn't have a single ring without running away :(

['Toine=MVP]

That's not the way serious people rank players. Harden is the more effective NBA player right now under these stupid NBA rules/ref enforcement. But he isn't ever going to be considered truly great the way he plays. Steph at least has shown some greatness attributes based mainly of the epic shot ability. He was more loved (for a brief period of time) than LeBron ever was, but has shown some not-quite-as-bad-as-LeBron black marks since too. All the NBA greats made the sport better. LeBron will never be an upper tier great because his biggest legacies are ones that have hurt the league, but on balance he's made the league somewhat better at least. Harden is a player that is kind of ruining the NBA. But he's really good at it.

[Bronbron23]

Harden winning a ring? :roll: :roll: :roll:
I would have agreed with that before last year but Houston would of probably beat gs last year if not for cp going down. It's not as far fetched as you think

[Bronbron23]

That's not the way serious people rank players. Harden is the more effective NBA player right now under these stupid NBA rules/ref enforcement. But he isn't ever going to be considered truly great the way he plays. Steph at least has shown some greatness attributes based mainly of the epic shot ability. He was more loved (for a brief period of time) than LeBron ever was, but has shown some not-quite-as-bad-as-LeBron black marks since too. All the NBA greats made the sport better. LeBron will never be an upper tier great because his biggest legacies are ones that have hurt the league, but on balance he's made the league somewhat better at least. Harden is a player that is kind of ruining the NBA. But he's really good at it.
I disagree. Steph benefits from the current NBA rules just as much as harden. He runs around a thousand screens and the defenders arnt allowed to impede him on his cuts or fight through the screens on or off ball. It's impossible to gaurd him with these rules and all those screens( which are usually moving ones btw).

Steph is also ruining the game with the way he plays. He takes horrible shots and plays no defence. It works for him because he's on a good defensive team and hes alien when it comes to shooting but anyone else shooting those shots are horrible shots. Theres a whole new generation coming up that want to play like Steph and it's terrible for basketball because it only works for him.

[superduper]

I disagree. Steph benefits from the current NBA rules just as much as harden. He runs around a thousand screens and the defenders arnt allowed to impede him on his cuts or fight through the screens on or off ball. It's impossible to gaurd him with these rules and all those screens( which are usually moving ones btw).

Steph is also ruining the game with the way he plays. He takes horrible shots and plays no defence. It works for him because he's on a good defensive team and hes alien when it comes to shooting but anyone else shooting those shots are horrible shots. Theres a whole new generation coming up that want to play like Steph and it's terrible for basketball because it only works for him.

I agree that compared to other all time great scorers, Steph is more reliant on his team screening for him simply due to the style in which Steph scores but you're over exaggerating a little:

1) Steph absolutely gets fouled like hell off ball every time he's running around the court/screens to try and get open.

2) GSW are by no means the only team that uses illegal screens, every single team in the NBA does it just as much. It's just more seen for GSW because of them being so watched and because of Steph's divine shooting ability.

3) Steph is easily the greatest scorer in history that requires the least ref help in terms of getting to the FT line. Or in other words Steph is the greatest scorer in history who is the least reliant on getting FTs in order to produce points.

4) Steph is one of the best ever if not the best at resetting/reloading his position to anywhere outside the arc while the defender is lost to find himself completely open at the 3 which 95% of the time he does all on his own without a screen.

[imdaman99]

Yeah most definitely. But he has to have his NBA Finals moment though, and I don't mean 43 points on 12-35 shooting with 17-18 on FTs

['Toine=MVP]

I disagree. Steph benefits from the current NBA rules just as much as harden. He runs around a thousand screens and the defenders arnt allowed to impede him on his cuts or fight through the screens on or off ball. It's impossible to gaurd him with these rules and all those screens( which are usually moving ones btw).

Steph is also ruining the game with the way he plays. He takes horrible shots and plays no defence. It works for him because he's on a good defensive team and hes alien when it comes to shooting but anyone else shooting those shots are horrible shots. Theres a whole new generation coming up that want to play like Steph and it's terrible for basketball because it only works for him.

There are very few all time greats that the next generation should be trying to play like. Bird (#2 all time) is the clearest because he maximized every bit of natural talent he could, had the most well rounded game ever, and was the most dedicated student of the game/practice junkie. We've never seen anyone come close to reaching Bird levels (across the board), but it's the perfect model to follow (other than his shit personal life).

A random kid trying to emulate MJ or Kobe or LeBron will end up making himself worse. Good luck trying to emulate Wilt, Shaq, or Kareem, or even alesser star Hakeem. You can't just become that. Bill Russell might be a decent model, if you are going to grow to at least 6'9 or 6'10. And Duncan might be a decent model if you are going to hit 7'0. But you know...

[Stephonit]

A series win against these Warriors would be legendary. If Harden defeats the Warriors at full health and wins the championship I think that would seriously catapult him up the rankings. Worth 2 rings probably.

[Manny98]

I would have agreed with that before last year but Houston would of probably beat gs last year if not for cp going down. It's not as far fetched as you think
Yes and CP3 has declined last year was Hardens one and only chance and he blew it

[Bronbron23]

I agree that compared to other all time great scorers, Steph is more reliant on his team screening for him simply due to the style in which Steph scores but you're over exaggerating a little:

1) Steph absolutely gets fouled like hell off ball every time he's running around the court/screens to try and get open.

2) GSW are by no means the only team that uses illegal screens, every single team in the NBA does it just as much. It's just more seen for GSW because of them being so watched and because of Steph's divine shooting ability.

3) Steph is easily the greatest scorer in history that requires the least ref help in terms of getting to the FT line. Or in other words Steph is the greatest scorer in history who is the least reliant on getting FTs in order to produce points.

4) Steph is one of the best ever if not the best at resetting/reloading his position to anywhere outside the arc while the defender is lost to find himself completely open at the 3 which 95% of the time he does all on his own without a screen.
I disagree with some of this:
1)compared to previous era's curry faces very little impediment. What you call a foul now would absolutely not be a foul in previous era's
2) yes all teams use screens but not as much as warriors who have two great players who heavily rely on them. Houston with harden for example rely alot less on them and use harden in alot of iso's.
3) your acting like refs are gifting other players free points with foul shots. Most players get to the hole more than Steph and obviously get fouled more because of it. If they weren't fouled they would in most cases score the hoop so if you take foul shots out of the equation they still score the same pretty much. James harden is an exception to this because he foul Bates with some of his antics that arnt really fouls.
4) yes Steph is one of the best movers off the ball and this is true with him resetting. It's much less than 95% though. often times he resets it's off a screen

[Bronbron23]

There are very few all time greats that the next generation should be trying to play like. Bird (#2 all time) is the clearest because he maximized every bit of natural talent he could, had the most well rounded game ever, and was the most dedicated student of the game/practice junkie. We've never seen anyone come close to reaching Bird levels (across the board), but it's the perfect model to follow (other than his shit personal life).

A random kid trying to emulate MJ or Kobe or LeBron will end up making himself worse. Good luck trying to emulate Wilt, Shaq, or Kareem, or even alesser star Hakeem. You can't just become that. Bill Russell might be a decent model, if you are going to grow to at least 6'9 or 6'10. And Duncan might be a decent model if you are going to hit 7'0. But you know...
Yeah but your talking about guys who are 6,6 and above not many people can relate to that. Almost everyone can relate to Steph. Every kid out there can feel like if he can do it than I can do it because Steph's dominance doesn't rely on his size or athleticism. Problem with this is that they can't. Steph is truly a once in a lifetime shooter.

these kids would be better off trying to emulate Curry's elite off ball movement because for almost anyone else other than maybe dame or Kyrie his shot selection would be terrible.

[Bronbron23]

Yes and CP3 has declined last year was Hardens one and only chance and he blew it
Maybe Houston still seems to match up well with warriors and if cp is healthy come playoff time he can only help even if he has declined some

[Bronbron23]

A series win against these Warriors would be legendary. If Harden defeats the Warriors at full health and wins the championship I think that would seriously catapult him up the rankings. Worth 2 rings probably.
I'm leaning towards this. Personally I think Steph is a better player but if harden beats this warriors team and then goes on to win a chip as fmvp it be hard not putting him above steph

[Stephonit]

I'm leaning towards this. Personally I think Steph is a better player but if harden beats this warriors team and then goes on to win a chip as fmvp it be hard not putting him above steph

Actually I think it would still be easy not to put Harden ahead. One series no matter how great a victory cannot really be held in higher regard than an entire season's worth of play absent extenuating circumstances. Steph would still be ahead in my book but the gap reduced significantly and arguments about Harden not having the same record because he didn't have the same level of teammates would not be as easy to dismiss out of hand.

[Bronbron23]

Actually I think it would still be easy not to put Harden ahead. One series no matter how great a victory cannot really be held in higher regard than an entire season's worth of play absent extenuating circumstances. Steph would still be ahead in my book but the gap reduced significantly and arguments about Harden not having the same record because he didn't have the same level of teammates would not be as easy to dismiss out of hand.
I don't agree with that. I think if that if that one series is a finals than it can be greater than a seasons worth of play. So much more is on the line. The pressure is much greater. Its a much tougher test.

[Stephonit]

I don't agree with that. I think if that if that one series is a finals than it can be greater than a seasons worth of play. So much more is on the line. The pressure is much greater. Its a much tougher test.

Are we just going to ignore how Harden lost to the Warriors in the playoffs in 2015, 2016, and 2018 then? Or how many more playoffs series victories Steph has had against a wider array of competition? Doesn't compute.

[bobopenguin]

harden wins a chip? over my dead body.