Has Tom Brady reached MJ type status as GOAT of football?

[ClipperRevival]

Not too many sports has a consensus GOAT. Like hockey, there is Gretzky. In basketball, MJ. In other sports, like baseball, there isn't a clear cut GOAT. Ditto for football. I think most objective fans would argue between Jerry Rice, Jim Brown, Lawrence Taylor and Tom Brady.

Another similarity to MJ is the feeling of inevitability. Like if the game is close in the 4th, Brady, through his combo of skill/will will just find a way. It's almost comical how clutch this guy is. Same feeling many had with MJ during his championship years. Like people just felt that MJ would get it done no matter what.

So do you think Brady is getting to a point where if you polled all NFL fans in the world, maybe 70% or more would say he is the GOAT?

[TheImmortal]

Brady is a system player.. too many moving parts in football for one guy to get the acclaim as the greatest. He does his role the best and you can definitely argue as the greatest quarterback of all-time. But the greatest football player? There's no such thing. His resume is however really impressive nevertheless. Great run by him and his franchise.

[Akrazotile]

Not too many sports has a consensus GOAT. Like hockey, there is Gretzky. In basketball, MJ. In other sports, like baseball, there isn't a clear cut GOAT. Ditto for football. I think most objective fans would argue between Jerry Rice, Jim Brown, Lawrence Taylor and Tom Brady.

Another similarity to MJ is the feeling of inevitability. Like if the game is close in the 4th, Brady, through his combo of skill/will will just find a way. It's almost comical how clutch this guy is. Same feeling many had with MJ during his championship years. Like people just felt that MJ would get it done no matter what.

So do you think Brady is getting to a point where if you polled all NFL fans in the world, maybe 70% or more would say he is the GOAT?



Ehhhhh no.

[ShawkFactory]

I think so. Obviously it

[FKAri]

MJ > Brady

[TheImmortal]

Patriots roster:

Dwayne Allen
Ryan Allen
Stephen Anderson (IR)
David Andrews
Tom Brady
Malcom Brown
Trent Brown
Rex Burkhead
Adam Butler
Marcus Cannon
Joe Cardona
Patrick Chung
Adrian Clayborn
Amara Darboh (IR)
Keionta Davis (IR)
Duke Dawson (IR)
James Develin
Phillip Dorsett
Nate Ebner
Julian Edelman
James Ferentz (IR)
Trey Flowers
Stephon Gilmore
Stephen Gostkowski
Rob Gronkowski
Lawrence Guy
Duron Harmon
Dont'a Hightower
Chris Hogan
Brian Hoyer
Ramon Humber
J.C. Jackson
Jonathan Jones
Ufomba Kamalu (IR)
Ted Karras
Brandon King
Devin Lucien
Shaq Mason
Albert McClellan
Devin McCourty
Jason McCourty
Obi Melifonwu
Sony Michel
Cordarrelle Patterson
Derek Rivers
Elandon Roberts
Danny Shelton (IR)
John Simon
Matthew Slater
Joe Thuney
Kyle Van Noy
LaAdrian Waddle
James White
Deatrich Wise (IR)


Then you have coordinators, coaches... so many variables.

[ClipperRevival]

Brady is a system player.. too many moving parts in football for one guy to get the acclaim as the greatest. He does his role the best and you can definitely argue as the greatest quarterback of all-time. But the greatest football player? There's no such thing. His resume is however really impressive nevertheless. Great run by him and his franchise.

I feel this is utter hogwash. Why? Because so many of NE's wins in the playoffs/superbowl come down to the final drive or the 4th. That means he had to pull rabbits out the hat time and time again to win. Dude is so clutch, it's almost comical. We just take it for GRANTED. And i don't even like the guy. I'm actually just sick of him cause he always wins (same effect MJ had on many). But can't deny what he is. Dude threw for 500+ yards in last year's Superbowl but lost because Nick Foles played a PERFECT game.

Dude won 5 Superbowls, been to 8, been to 13 AFC Championship games in 17 seasons. That is comical success for such a team sport. The common denominator is Brady. Many will say Bellichick and i agree he's a master but Brady is the one who had to come through on the field.

[kennethgriffen]

Brady > MJ


this


6 titles in 9 superbowls would basically make him the kareem abdul jabbar of the NFL


the true goat

[Phoenix]

Positionally speaking, yeah. As far as best football 'player', the functions between the various positions are different enough to make it hard to say who's a better 'player' between an elite wide receiver, running back, DE, OT, or quarterback. I suppose you could argue on the QB being the most 'vital' position I guess, in terms of your teams chance of success especially in clutch situations may depend morseo on having a Brady, an Elway, a Montana, etc etc at the helm all else being equal?

['Toine=MVP]

this


6 titles in 9 superbowls would basically make him the kareem abdul jabbar of the NFL


the true goat

Kareem finished sub .500 in back to back years during his true prime in the 2nd best professional basketball league. If you want to call Russell the GOAT, fine. You'd be wrong, but it would be fine. But you can't call Kareem the GOAT. He's not the conversation until we get to like the 4-5 range and he's probably not top 5.

[SouBeachTalents]

It's impossible to have a true GOAT in football because each position is vastly different and requires completely unique responsibilities and skill sets. But considering QB is by far the most important position on the field, and you'd have to just be a hater to consider someone to be the GOAT QB other than Brady at this point, you could make the argument that Brady is the NFL GOAT

[ShawkFactory]

Kareem finished sub .500 in back to back years during his true prime in the 2nd best professional basketball league. If you want to call Russell the GOAT, fine. You'd be wrong, but it would be fine. But you can't call Kareem the GOAT. He's not the conversation until we get to like the 4-5 range and he's probably not top 5.
Was the ABA really better than the NBA at the time? I know the stars at the top were comparable but were they as deep too?

[tpols]

Brady is a system player.. too many moving parts in football for one guy to get the acclaim as the greatest. He does his role the best and you can definitely argue as the greatest quarterback of all-time. But the greatest football player? There's no such thing. His resume is however really impressive nevertheless. Great run by him and his franchise.


He's still had a HOF great career but yea... NFL is all about coaching and systems... Top down coordination and team building. Look at playoffs rn... Sean Payton, belicheck, Reid, and McKay... All future HOF and some GOAT coaches. Its not a coincidence.

People just need a hero to point at and hype over.

MJ wouldve been mj anywhere.

[Bronbron23]

I don't like pats or Brady but probably have to say yeah. Especially if he wins this year

[bigkingsfan]

Harder with the single game elimination, MJ would only have two rings if that was the case.

[atljonesbro]

I think he is the consensus GOAT for football but I do think Jordan is a greater GOAT

[AirBonner]

He

[SouBeachTalents]

If the Pats success is truly applicable to the Belichick system, why were they 5-11 his first season with the Pats, then start off the next year 0-2 with a pro bowl level QB in Bledsoe before Brady became the starter? It's a bit of a coincidence Belichick goes 36-44 in Cleveland, starts off 5-13 in New England, then the instant Brady becomes the starter, they immediately win 3 Super Bowl's in 4 years

[Akrazotile]

If the Pats success is truly applicable to the Belichick system, why were they 5-11 his first season with the Pats, then start off the next year 0-2 with a pro bowl level QB in Bledsoe before Brady became the starter? It's a bit of a coincidence Belichick goes 36-44 in Cleveland, starts off 5-13 in New England, then the instant Brady becomes the starter, they immediately win 3 Super Bowl's in 4 years


Matt Cassel never started a game in college OR the pros, then quarterbacked the Pats to a 10-6 record the year Brady was hurt. The Chiefs then traded for him and he was a dud.

These things happen. It’s a team sport. The Brady “turnaround” could have been about him simply having better chemistry with those particular linemen, or even just sheer coincidence. Also, Bledsoe made a Superbowl himself as a QB. It’s not like Brady is somehow 100x more talented than the game’s next best QBs. Sometimes it’s just serendipity. Not taking anything away from him, but he’s not a 1 man team. That notion is 100% false and absurd.

[tpols]

If the Pats success is truly applicable to the Belichick system, why were they 5-11 his first season with the Pats, then start off the next year 0-2 with a pro bowl level QB in Bledsoe before Brady became the starter? It's a bit of a coincidence Belichick goes 36-44 in Cleveland, starts off 5-13 in New England, then the instant Brady becomes the starter, they immediately win 3 Super Bowl's in 4 years


Bad argument because Brady didn't produce at all like a superstar when they won their first rings. Plus sample sizes are too small.


Belicheck is literally a GOAT coach... Its amazing people doubt him. He was parcells inside man and tactician for other superbowl wins, and has decades of wisdom.

[Akrazotile]

Bad argument because Brady didn't produce at all like a superstar when they won their first rings. Plus sample sizes are too small.


Belicheck is literally a GOAT coach... Its amazing people doubt him. He was parcells inside man and tactician for other superbowl wins, and has decades of wisdom.


Coaches also dont win without lots of talent to work with. Maybe Belichik is the GOAT coach, I dont know, but it isnt because of his record, just like any other player isnt great because of their team

[Hey Yo]

Not too many sports has a consensus GOAT. Like hockey, there is Gretzky. In basketball, MJ. In other sports, like baseball, there isn't a clear cut GOAT. Ditto for football. I think most objective fans would argue between Jerry Rice, Jim Brown, Lawrence Taylor and Tom Brady.

Another similarity to MJ is the feeling of inevitability. Like if the game is close in the 4th, Brady, through his combo of skill/will will just find a way. It's almost comical how clutch this guy is. Same feeling many had with MJ during his championship years. Like people just felt that MJ would get it done no matter what.

So do you think Brady is getting to a point where if you polled all NFL fans in the world, maybe 70% or more would say he is the GOAT?
:biggums: :biggums:

"How dare you compare Brady, who has lost on the biggest stage multiple times, to MJ!!!!!"

"Dont you fu**ing realize MJ NEVER LOST???????"

"MJ GOAT, nobody even comes close. Never lost, best ever, GOAT GOAT GOAT!!!!!!" :mad: :rant


did I do it right??

[Marchesk]

[QUOTE=Akrazotile]Coaches also dont win without lots of talent to work with. Maybe Belichik is the GOAT coach, I dont know, but it isnt because of his record, just like any other player isnt great because of their team

[NuggetsFan]

Gretzky stands alone. After that if Brady wins I honestly think he surpasses Jordan in terms of being the GOAT. I hate the Pats too. Jordan is the GOAT in my eyes but look at the media pitting LeBron against him. That won't happen to Brady. Older folks tend to have Wilt/Kareem/Russell as the GOAT as well.

Nobody who isn't delusional doesn't have Brady as the GOAT QB. I say this as a Broncos fan. While I think Jordan's the GOAT other guys have arguments. Kareem was the best basketball player across college/NBA/HS etc. Wilt re-wrote the record book. Russell won the most. I don't see the argument but some think LeBron was just the better player.

So yeah he's reached it and has a chance to surpass it. I mean he's what, 41 years old? It's insane.

[SouBeachTalents]

Matt Cassel never started a game in college OR the pros, then quarterbacked the Pats to a 10-6 record the year Brady was hurt. The Chiefs then traded for him and he was a dud.

These things happen. It’s a team sport. The Brady “turnaround” could have been about him simply having better chemistry with those particular linemen, or even just sheer coincidence. Also, Bledsoe made a Superbowl himself as a QB. It’s not like Brady is somehow 100x more talented than the game’s next best QBs. Sometimes it’s just serendipity. Not taking anything away from him, but he’s not a 1 man team. That notion is 100% false and absurd.
Cassel took over a team that just went 16-0, broke the scoring record, and had Randy Moss & Wes Welker at receiver, that's about as good a situation as any for a QB to come into

Bad argument because Brady didn't produce at all like a superstar when they won their first rings. Plus sample sizes are too small.


Belicheck is literally a GOAT coach... Its amazing people doubt him. He was parcells inside man and tactician for other superbowl wins, and has decades of wisdom.
The first ring yes, Brady was not producing at a superstar level, but to do a complete 180, go from a 5-13 record to 14-3 in games Brady started his first season, I don't know what else you want to attribute that too, the QB change seems to be the deciding factor. And while I won't criticize him too much for not winning with a shithole Browns franchise, a 36-44 record in Cleveland doesn't necessarily help Belichick's cause either.

It's not like I'm disputing Belichick isn't a good coach, he's a defensive mastermind, but I attribute the greater share of the Patriots success to Brady. He's played with literally dozens of different receivers, has produced monster seasons and won Super Bowls with relatively modest talent on the offensive end in his career, and produces clutch drive after clutch drive after clutch drive.

[Akrazotile]

But Belliceck has been doing it for two decades now, drafting near the bottom of the draft most of the time. Maybe he's the GOAT GM?

Some of the Pats teams to make the SB aren't that great. But they find ways to win. And Belliceck has designed some great defensive schemes to slow down some unbelievable offenses. What they did to the Chiefs in the first half was an example, but they've done that to Manning and the Colts before.


I think the Patriots definitely have the best personnel department/philosophy, along with a couple other teams like the Steelers etc.

Im sure Belichik is a big part of that decision making, if not the primary decision maker, so that’s something you could certainly argue.

Coaching is more important in football than in other sports, but players are still more important than coaches. Maybe not on a 1:1 basis, but a strong roster is much more valuable than a strong coaching staff in terms of a given season. You could argue a strong staff is more desirable bc coaches last longer than players. But in terms of the outcome of a given game, players always trump coaches.

[ShawkFactory]

Cassel took over a team that just went 16-0, broke the scoring record, and had Randy Moss & Wes Welker at receiver, that's about as good a situation as any for a QB to come into

The first ring yes, Brady was not producing at a superstar level, but to do a complete 180, go from a 5-13 record to 14-3 in games Brady started his first season, I don't know what else you want to attribute that too, the QB change seems to be the deciding factor. And while I won't criticize him too much for not winning with a shithole Browns franchise, a 36-44 record in Cleveland doesn't necessarily help Belichick's cause either.

It's not like I'm disputing Belichick isn't a good coach, he's a defensive mastermind, but I attribute the greater share of the Patriots success to Brady. He's played with literally dozens of different receivers, has produced monster seasons and won Super Bowls with relatively modest talent on the offensive end in his career, and produces clutch drive after clutch drive after clutch drive.
Cassel is a backup quarterback. He's never shown the ability to be a consistent starter at this level.

[bullettooth]

Ehhhhh no.

Just because you and 12 of your alts say otherwise doesn't make it true.

[SouBeachTalents]

Cassel is a backup quarterback. He's never shown the ability to be a consistent starter at this level.
Lol, I'm not gonna try to argue Cassel being a legitimate QB, but believe it or not he did make the pro bowl two years later in KC. I was just saying that if an inexperienced/not truly legit starter was to walk into an ideal situation, it'd be taking over for the 16-0 Pats

[SaltyMeatballs]

Winning 6 championships in the NFL is tougher than winning 6 in the NBA. Why? Because in the NFL you only have one chance to advance to the next round. I already think Tom Brady is football's GOAT, but if he wins his 6th ring at the age of 41, he should be named the consensus GOAT. I don't wanna hear Lawrence Taylor, Jerry Rice, Jim Brown or whoever. NO. Tom Brady IS THE GOAT

[CelticBaller]

Cassel is a backup quarterback. He's never shown the ability to be a consistent starter at this level.
Yes he did in KC lol

[CelticBaller]

Lol, I'm not gonna try to argue Cassel being a legitimate QB, but believe it or not he did make the pro bowl two years later in KC. I was just saying that if an inexperienced/not truly legit starter was to walk into an ideal situation, it'd be taking over for the 16-0 Pats
Cassel had his best season outside NE

People don

[ClipperRevival]

Gretzky stands alone. After that if Brady wins I honestly think he surpasses Jordan in terms of being the GOAT. I hate the Pats too. Jordan is the GOAT in my eyes but look at the media pitting LeBron against him. That won't happen to Brady. Older folks tend to have Wilt/Kareem/Russell as the GOAT as well.

Nobody who isn't delusional doesn't have Brady as the GOAT QB. I say this as a Broncos fan. While I think Jordan's the GOAT other guys have arguments. Kareem was the best basketball player across college/NBA/HS etc. Wilt re-wrote the record book. Russell won the most. I don't see the argument but some think LeBron was just the better player.

So yeah he's reached it and has a chance to surpass it. I mean he's what, 41 years old? It's insane.

Could've sworn there was a big game this year when NE/GB played on NBC Sports. The fact is, even when you're the GOAT, during the stretch of your career, you'll always get compared to someone. MJ was compared to Bird, Magic, Drexler, etc. But the beautiful thing about all this is that the truth plays itself out over time and we can judge properly. Rodgers, who had more offensive help this year, played worse than Brady and is like 7 years younger. Rodgers regressed this year. His stock dropped.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8c-TNpNF-qM

[Rolando]

Basketball is simply a more all-encompassing demonstration of physical prowess.

Football is at a lower level: players are more specialized. Sure Brady can execute the most important position in football at the highest level ever.....But it doesn't compare to a sport where you not only have to play offense but defense as well.

MJ is the GOAT at the GOAT sport.

Nobody in any other sport can touch that.

Just an aside: I bet if MJ somehow decided at a young age to play football, he would have been the GOAT at football too.

[SouBeachTalents]

Basketball is simply a more all-encompassing demonstration of physical prowess.

Football is at a lower level: players are more specialized. Sure Brady can execute the most important position in football at the highest level ever.....But it doesn't compare to a sport where you not only have to play offense but defense as well.

MJ is the GOAT at the GOAT sport.

Nobody in any other sport can touch that.

Just an aside: I bet if MJ somehow decided at a young age to play football, he would have been the GOAT at football too.
Well we all saw how he dominated on the baseball field

[tpols]

The first ring yes, Brady was not producing at a superstar level.


That kinda destroys the argument though. You said belicheck didnt do anything before brady, yet... He c0ached a superbowl winning team where Brady threw for 1 touchdown in the whole post season. The argument is dead at that point.

[ballinhun8]

I dislike both Brady and NE but he entered that realm two seasons ago after that gave against Atlanta.


But I'm not sure he can surpass him just cuz of the sport. Belichick has just as much input in that dynasty's success, if not more, than Brady.

[CelticBaller]

That kinda destroys the argument though. You said belicheck didnt do anything before brady, yet... He c0ached a superbowl winning team where Brady threw for 1 touchdown in the whole post season. The argument is dead at that point.
Yeah let’s ignore context.

1 game was in a snowstom where he rushed for a td, the other he had to leave for an injury and franchise QB Drew Bledsoe picked it back up. The last game was the SB

Your Brady discrediting is amazing :oldlol:

[ClipperRevival]

I just don't understand how some of you can't give Brady full credit. I mean if his teams were blowing teams out in most playoff games, i could say he had superior teams. But so many of NE's playoff victories were because Brady came through late in the 4th. It's just that simple. Whether we are talking his 1st 3 SBs or the last 2. That means the balance of the game came down to the wire and whether you won or lost came down to how you played in those ultra-tight situations. Brady has been so clutch for so long, we simply take his greatness for GRANTED.

The hardest thing to do is to make greatness look easy. That's what he's done. Again, i really don't even like the guy. I really don't. I'm sick of him. But i have to give the man his due.

[Elosha]

Winning 6 championships in the NFL is tougher than winning 6 in the NBA. Why? Because in the NFL you only have one chance to advance to the next round. I already think Tom Brady is football's GOAT, but if he wins his 6th ring at the age of 41, he should be named the consensus GOAT. I don't wanna hear Lawrence Taylor, Jerry Rice, Jim Brown or whoever. NO. Tom Brady IS THE GOAT

I get what you say about single game elimination but it cuts both ways. In NBA/MLB you have to beat your opponent 4 times to advance to the next round. Cuts out a lot of the fluke/luck results that sometimes happens in NFL. Brady has both the challenge and the benefit of single game elimination. But that said, I'd have no argument with those claiming he's the GOAT in NFL.

[AirBonner]

I just don't understand how some of you can't give Brady full credit. I mean if his teams were blowing teams out in most playoff games, i could say he had superior teams. But so many of NE's playoff victories were because Brady came through late in the 4th. It's just that simple. Whether we are talking his 1st 3 SBs or the last 2. That means the balance of the game came down to the wire and whether you won or lost came down to how you played in those ultra-tight situations. Brady has been so clutch for so long, we simply take his greatness for GRANTED.

The hardest thing to do is to make greatness look easy. That's what he's done. Again, i really don't even like the guy. I really don't. I'm sick of him. But i have to give the man his due.
Well said :applause: people have become numb to him WINNING. This is what all GOATs have in common.

[Euroleague]

NFL GOAT = Brady

NBA GOAT = Kareem

[Euroleague]

He's still had a HOF great career but yea... NFL is all about coaching and systems... Top down coordination and team building. Look at playoffs rn... Sean Payton, belicheck, Reid, and McKay... All future HOF and some GOAT coaches. Its not a coincidence.

People just need a hero to point at and hype over.

MJ wouldve been mj anywhere.

Jordan's head coach won 2 championships as a player and 11 as a head coach....he had at least the same amount of help from coaching as Brady did.

[Euroleague]

[QUOTE=Akrazotile]Matt Cassel never started a game in college OR the pros, then quarterbacked the Pats to a 10-6 record the year Brady was hurt. The Chiefs then traded for him and he was a dud.

These things happen. It

[Euroleague]

Basketball is simply a more all-encompassing demonstration of physical prowess.

Football is at a lower level: players are more specialized. Sure Brady can execute the most important position in football at the highest level ever.....But it doesn't compare to a sport where you not only have to play offense but defense as well.

MJ is the GOAT at the GOAT sport.

Nobody in any other sport can touch that.

Just an aside: I bet if MJ somehow decided at a young age to play football, he would have been the GOAT at football too.


Using this argument, Michael Phelps is much more of a GOAT than MJ....

[ShawkFactory]

[QUOTE=Akrazotile]I think the Patriots definitely have the best personnel department/philosophy, along with a couple other teams like the Steelers etc.

Im sure Belichik is a big part of that decision making, if not the primary decision maker, so that

[tpols]

Jordan's head coach won 2 championships as a player and 11 as a head coach....he had at least the same amount of help from coaching as Brady did.



Phil wasn't the tactician or team builder bill is. He was a mood setter and ego manager who coached basketball GOATs. Popovich is more like belicheck, Brady still great, like duncan but he isn't the GOAT.

[Vino24]

Phil wasn't the tactician or team builder bill is. He was a mood setter and ego manager who coached basketball GOATs. Popovich is more like belicheck, Brady still great, like duncan but he isn't the GOAT.
Brady is much more than just a Duncan. Brady has been more of the coach than Belichick has been these past few years

[Relinquish]

I dislike both Brady and NE but he entered that realm two seasons ago after that gave against Atlanta.


But I'm not sure he can surpass him just cuz of the sport. Belichick has just as much input in that dynasty's success, if not more, than Brady.

Phil Jackson

[Euroleague]

Phil wasn't the tactician or team builder bill is. He was a mood setter and ego manager who coached basketball GOATs. Popovich is more like belicheck, Brady still great, like duncan but he isn't the GOAT.

Belichick had 7 seasons as a head coach without Brady. He made the playoffs once, and won a grand total of 1 playoff game. He also has a career record of 55-64 when Brady isn't his starting quarterback. Never got past the divisional round without Brady either.

In a full seven seasons of sample size, we saw Belichick without Brady. Basically an average coach.

Not only that, he had some other franchise quarterbacks like Vinny Testaverde and Drew Bledsoe, and he still was a sub .500 coach, with one playoff win and one playoff appearance in 7 years.

It's absolutely absurd that people claim Belichick is the reason for Brady's success and the Patriots wins, and not Brady. It's 100% without any doubt at all, related to when Brady dropped from the sky like manna from heaven, into Belichick's luck. Hell, he hadn't even had the football IQ up to that point to grasp that Brady should have already been starting, prior to Bledsoe's injury.

[tpols]

Belichick had 7 seasons as a head coach without Brady. He made the playoffs once, and won a grand total of 1 playoff game. He also has a career record of 55-64 when Brady isn't his starting quarterback. Never got past the divisional round without Brady either.

In a full seven seasons of sample size, we saw Belichick without Brady. Basically an average coach.

Not only that, he had some other franchise quarterbacks like Vinny Testaverde and Drew Bledsoe, and he still was a sub .500 coach, with one playoff win and one playoff appearance in 7 years.

It's absolutely absurd that people claim Belichick is the reason for Brady's success and the Patriots wins, and not Brady. It's 100% without any doubt at all, related to when Brady dropped from the sky like manna from heaven, into Belichick's luck. Hell, he hadn't even had the football IQ up to that point to grasp that Brady should have already been starting, prior to Bledsoe's injury.


You're leaving out he was the tactician and film room guy for superbowl Giants teams with Parcells. Brady was a 6th round pick who put up role player numbers in Bill's first superbowl win as HC. Any number of QB's couldve replaced him for that ring my friend and thats a fact.


The way Belicheck has built his offensive lines to support brady (and run the ball), and schemes the defense tailored to the opponent is why the patriots are winning. KC couldnt touch brady on sunday, and a mediocre personel having pat's D held an all time great offense to zilch for a whole half. That factored more into their win than a couple throws by brady.

[ClipperRevival]

Another common theme between MJ/Brady is that both get criticized for their teams having success when they were out. Of course MJ for the 55 win team and Brady for Matt Cassel's success in 2008.

But perhaps what we are overlooking is the situation both left their teams in. MJ's team were 3 peat, defending champs. They clearly had a system in place that everyone was familiar with and that team had the confidence of a 3 peat winner. Not to mention, Pip/Grant entering their prime and adding Kerr/Kukoc.

With Brady, the Pats had a historic 16-0 season in 2007. Sure they get upset in the Superbowl but that was probably Brady's greatest help in terms of WRs with Moss/Welker. Cassel stepped into a team/system that had confidence and was a well oiled machine.

Still doesn't change the greatness that these 2 brought to the table.

[Dray n Klay]

Did Brady ever get embarrassed in the first round ala 1-9 Jordan?

[ClipperRevival]

You're leaving out he was the tactician and film room guy for superbowl Giants teams with Parcells. Brady was a 6th round pick who put up role player numbers in Bill's first superbowl win as HC. Any number of QB's couldve replaced him for that ring my friend and thats a fact.


The way Belicheck has built his offensive lines to support brady (and run the ball), and schemes the defense tailored to the opponent is why the patriots are winning. KC couldnt touch brady on sunday, and a mediocre personel having pat's D held an all time great offense to zilch for a whole half. That factored more into their win than a couple throws by brady.

Could Bellichick make Brady be clutch in all those countless playoff drives/games? Make him read the D correctly, spot the open man instantly and deliver accurate balls time and time again?

Seriously bro, you're bordering on some cringe stuff. Bellichick is great but how on Earth can you ignore the greatness of Brady? :facepalm

[Euroleague]

You're leaving out he was the tactician and film room guy for superbowl Giants teams with Parcells. Brady was a 6th round pick who put up role player numbers in Bill's first superbowl win as HC. Any number of QB's couldve replaced him for that ring my friend and thats a fact.


The way Belicheck has built his offensive lines to support brady (and run the ball), and schemes the defense tailored to the opponent is why the patriots are winning. KC couldnt touch brady on sunday, and a mediocre personel having pat's D held an all time great offense to zilch for a whole half. That factored more into their win than a couple throws by brady.

These are clear hater talking points 101. You need to up your game big time. It's like a complete Max Kellerman / Rob Parker transcript.

[eliteballer]

Lookup Brady's numbers in AFC championship games...also Patriots have a losing record on the road in the playoffs during Brady's tenure.

[Euroleague]

Lookup Brady's numbers in AFC championship games...also Patriots have a losing record on the road in the playoffs during Brady's tenure.

No they don't. They are 4-4 on the road.

[tpols]

Could Bellichick make Brady be clutch in all those countless playoff drives/games? Make him read the D correctly, spot the open man instantly and deliver accurate balls time and time again?

Seriously bro, you're bordering on some cringe stuff. Bellichick is great but how on Earth can you ignore the greatness of Brady? :facepalm


Brady had a decent game... 1 td and 2 picks and lotta yards and you want to say hes michael jordan...and also in a game where he was outplayed by mahomes. The main difference was their defenses performances.

[DMAVS41]

The dude is out there coming through, yet again, at age 41 or whatever with nothing approaching elite offensive help...

And you still have idiots claiming he's a "system product"...

It is unreal how this narrative still exists in any form.

Clutch throw after clutch throw last night and throughout his entire career.

I don't know enough about the NFL to claim Brady is the GOAT or better than Montana or something...but this whole "system" thing is absurd.

[Euroleague]

Brady had a decent game... 1 td and 2 picks and lotta yards and you want to say hes michael jordan...and also in a game where he was outplayed by mahomes. The main difference was their defenses performances.

WTF?

Seriously, some Brady haters are unbelievable. If Brady went scoreless in a half, during a conference championship game at home, and his team ended up losing to a clearly less talented and worse team..........people would be demanding he retire en masse.

The hate against Brady is truly something strange and powerful.

[tpols]

WTF?

Seriously, some Brady haters are unbelievable. If Brady went scoreless in a half, during a conference championship game, and his team ended up losing to a clearly less talented and worse team..........people would be demanding he retire en masse.

The hate against Brady is truly something strange and powerful.


woah woah... run games dont exist? What were the tallies for each offense?

176-41.

Are those Brady's too?

[ShawkFactory]

woah woah... run games dont exist? What were the tallies for each offense?

176-41.

Are those Brady's too?
Do you really think that Brady got outplayed?

[DMAVS41]

woah woah... run games dont exist? What were the tallies for each offense?

176-41.

Are those Brady's too?

In part, of course.

You even heard Romo on the broadcast talking about how Mahomes wasn't ready to change the play and make certain reads.

If you don't think what a guy like Brady can do doesn't dictate what kind of defensive schemes and sets the opposing team plays...you just don't understand football at all.

This is just like the Pop/Duncan stuff...

Both can be true. Pop can be arguably the best coach ever...and Duncan can be one of the best players ever.

Same is true here.

[tpols]

[/B]

In part, of course.

You even heard Romo on the broadcast talking about how Mahomes wasn't ready to change the play and make certain reads.

If you don't think what a guy like Brady can do doesn't dictate what kind of defensive schemes and sets the opposing team plays...you just don't understand football at all.

This is just like the Pop/Duncan stuff...

Both can be true. Pop can be arguably the best coach ever...and Duncan can be one of the best players ever.

Same is true here.


bro i literally said exactly that all along. literally exact same analogy as well.

and there's no doubt that the pat's run game is much better than kansas city's is with kareem hunt gone.

a couple pre snap switches dont make such a collasal difference in production. They were running on the cheifs right out the gates.

[DMAVS41]

bro i literally said exactly that all along. literally exact same analogy as well.

and there's no doubt that the pat's run game is much better than kansas city's is with kareem hunt gone.

a couple pre snap switches dont make such a collasal difference in production. They were running on the cheifs right out the gates.

Well, of course the Patriots defense is better.

I'm not sure how this is related to Brady, once again, coming through with clutch pass after clutch pass.

What specifically happened in this game is pretty much meaningless...but it is just another example of Brady playing great when it mattered most. He's 41...and those 3...third and tens in a row...is something that maybe a handful of guys in NFL history would be confident doing.

[Duncan21formvp]

this


6 titles in 9 superbowls would basically make him the kareem abdul jabbar of the NFL


the true goat
Brady didn't have players on his team better than him while Kareem did. Anyone else on Brady's team win MVP's like Magic did and Worthy did with Kareem or even Oscar Robertson?