Is Khabib Nurmagomedov the most dominant/invincible fighter of all time?

[iamgine]

I was thinking about who is the greatest fighter of all time (Boxing/MMA). Then I thought, why not Khabib?

He's undefeated, but that's not the point. It's how he does it. He dominated his opponents. It's really hard to see him losing against anyone around his weight class. And it's not because of lack of all time great talent, like maybe we can say about Klitschko.

When other dominant fighters fight (Ali, Mayweather, Jon Jones, etc), they didn't dominate their opponent as much as Khabib does, did not win as convincingly, they have rivals that are perceived to be close to their level. I'm not sure we have anyone we can say is close to Khabib's level.

[warriorfan]

The GOAT ****er

[FreezingTsmoove]

He hasnt really fought anyone impressive yet to get the MDE title.... Mcgregor came back to sell whiskey, Al Laquinta is a real estate agent, Barboza that was a pretty good win. If he can pull out a win against Tony Ferguson or Max Holloway I will say hes the 2nd most dominant ever (Jon Jones) but a couple of fights against average opponents doesnt make you the most dominant ever

[jongib369]

I really want to see him fight Askren, there's a lot of hype behind Ben but people are saying he'd MAUL Khabib... Not so sure about that from what I saw from his fight with Santos. Not going to pretend like I know what I'm talking about though, this sport is more so a new interest of mine that I might take up(To practice for self defense, not fight). I don't like the idea of some dick head who knows this shit being able to destroy me :lol

[Patrick Chewing]

Khabib doesn't move his head during stand up action, and the man has a huge head. He can get caught and dropped.

[kennethgriffen]

no... i never really heard of khabib till recently


and to say a guy like that is more dominant than a john jones is just retarded. khabib is only a champion due to a weight class system. if it was every man for themselves throughout history in a fight to the death and everyones in their prime


fedor probly takes it


http://www.5thround.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/09/FedorEmelianenko.gif

[jongib369]

no... i never really heard of khabib till recently


and to say a guy like that is more dominant than a john jones is just retarded. khabib is only a champion due to a weight class system. if it was every man for themselves throughout history in a fight to the death and everyones in their prime


fedor probly takes it


http://www.5thround.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/09/FedorEmelianenko.gif
Then a lot of good fighters wouldn't be recognized because they're just getting beat by a guy because of his size. More entertaining this way. But it would be cool to see every now and then.

https://i.pinimg.com/736x/8c/7a/d4/8c7ad447efeb398f316129295a4acd40--david-and-goliath-sumo-wrestler.jpg

http://www.rudebaguette.com/assets/Sumo-wrestler-with-kid-e1384952556983.jpg

[kennethgriffen]

Then a lot of good fighters wouldn't be recognized because they're just getting beat by a guy because of his size. More entertaining this way. But it would be cool to see every now and then.

https://i.pinimg.com/736x/8c/7a/d4/8c7ad447efeb398f316129295a4acd40--david-and-goliath-sumo-wrestler.jpg

http://www.rudebaguette.com/assets/Sumo-wrestler-with-kid-e1384952556983.jpg


this is a common mistake made by people. they just assume bigger and stronger means they'll win


https://youtu.be/fqPRqLL64h0


in this match andre the giant faced a japanese wrestler half his size. it turned into a "shoot" where a real fight broke out.. the japanese guy kicked andre in the legs until his legs gave out and he begged the other guy to pin him


bob sapps been made a fool by numerous smaller guys


in the original ufc royce gracie owned a bunch of bigger stronger guys


the fattest sumo guys cant close the distance. you just attack their knees.


the cut off of being a great fighter is about 275

[jongib369]

this is a common mistake made by people. they just assume bigger and stronger means they'll win


https://youtu.be/fqPRqLL64h0


in this match andre the giant faced a japanese wrestler half his size. it turned into a "shoot" where a real fight broke out.. the japanese guy kicked andre in the legs until his legs gave out and he begged the other guy to pin him


bob sapps been made a fool by numerous smaller guys


in the original ufc royce gracie owned a bunch of bigger stronger guys


the fattest sumo guys cant close the distance. you just attack their knees.


the cut off of being a great fighter is about 275
Bob Sapp was never an elite fighter, so I'm not talking about guys like him. For instance as good of a grappler Khabib is he'd probably get manhandled by Brock Lesnar. Kurt Angle beat him, but despite the massive difference in skill his sheer size/athleticism made it difficult for Kurt.

It doesn't guarantee they will win, but it gives them a large advantage if they're of similar skill level

[kennethgriffen]

Bob Sapp was never an elite fighter, so I'm not talking about guys like him. For instance as good of a grappler Khabib is he'd probably get manhandled by Brock Lesnar. Kurt Angle beat him, but despite the massive difference in skill his sheer size/athleticism made it difficult for Kurt.

It doesn't guarantee they will win, but it gives them a large advantage if they're of similar skill level



like i said. the cut off is around 275


yes being a huge ass goldberg/brock type helps ... but any bigger than that and you're f*cked

[Prometheus]

I want to say yes, but he has not yet faced good enough competition to get that claim over any one of Anderson Silva, Jon Jones, GSP, or DJ. Even DC still has a better case for GOAT.

But I do think Khabib will get there. He is the most dominant grappler I have ever seen.

[Prometheus]

kenneth, why do you pretend to know enough to be in a debate like this? You have admitted you know next to nothing about MMA. And that fact is obvious when you say shit. Why not just let people who actually know the sport do the talking? You look like an idiot.

[jongib369]

I want to say yes, but he has not yet faced good enough competition to get that claim over any one of Anderson Silva, Jon Jones, GSP, or DJ. Even DC still has a better case for GOAT.

But I do think Khabib will get there. He is the most dominant grappler I have ever seen.
What do you think about Askren Vs Khabib?

[stalkerforlife]

Him and Jones are the GOATS.

But only Jones is a juicer.

[Prometheus]

What do you think about Askren Vs Khabib?

Askren is not anywhere near as tested. He has looked great... but it's very hard to gauge how dominant he will be in the UFC because he has fought such lower-level opponents.

There is also the issue that Askren has always fought at 170 and Khabib at 155. Khabib's weight cut is notorious though, he'd probably be able to fight at 170 just fine. Even better if the UFC makes the 165 class everyone's chirping about.

My gut tells me Khabib would outclass Askren. He has been doing it at a higher level.

[kennethgriffen]

kenneth, why do you pretend to know enough to be in a debate like this? You have admitted you know next to nothing about MMA. And that fact is obvious when you say shit. Why not just let people who actually know the sport do the talking? You look like an idiot.


i think it depends on the subject. if this was a debate about something thats controversial then i might leave it to the experts


but its common sense to know that fedor would make khabib pick up his freshly knocked out teeth with his clenched asshole if fedor deemed it necessary and demanded it of him


he could probably pop his eyes out of his skull and feed them to him


so its nonsensical to say khabib is the most dominant fighter



plus i know a lot about shoot fighting in pro wrestling

[Prometheus]

i think it depends on the subject. if this was a debate about something thats controversial then i might leave it to the experts


but its common sense to know that fedor would make khabib pick up his freshly knocked out teeth with his clenched asshole if fedor deemed it necessary and demanded it of him


he could probably pop his eyes out of his skull and feed them to him


so its nonsensical to say khabib is the most dominant fighter

MMA is a sport. Fighters compete at weight classes. This is very basic.

Your schoolyard level reasoning would hold more weight if fighters themselves thought this way. But they don't. Anderson Silva called GSP the GOAT. GSP called DJ the GOAT. The most dominant fighters are the ones who most dominate their weight classes.

By your logic Shaq would rank higher than BJ Penn, since he could probably kill him in under 30 seconds in a NHB fight. That isn't how this works.

What you're talking about is a totally separate question. That's like... who is the most actually dangerous unarmed human. Then MMA and boxing are suddenly not good indicators, and the GOATs will be martial arts masters who train not to fight, but to strike throats and gouge eyes and crush testicles and kill.

[kennethgriffen]

MMA is a sport. Fighters compete at weight classes. This is very basic.

Your schoolyard level reasoning would hold more weight if fighters themselves thought this way. But they don't. Anderson Silva called GSP the GOAT. GSP called DJ the GOAT. The most dominant fighters are the ones who most dominate their weight classes.

By your logic Shaq would rank higher than BJ Penn, since he could probably kill him in under 30 seconds in a NHB fight. That isn't how this works.

What you're talking about is a totally separate question. That's like... who is the most actually dangerous unarmed human. Then MMA and boxing are suddenly not good indicators, and the GOATs will be martial arts masters who train not to fight, but to strike throats and gouge eyes and crush testicles and kill.


if this is about being the most dominant/invincible MMA divisional pound for pound fighter in their specific weight class then its different


but the title says "dominant/invisible fighter" period... that goes well beyond weight classes/competition in the UFC


if we're just talking about using your body then its gotta be fedor


if weapons are involved then its a completely different discussion.

[Prometheus]

if this is about being the most dominant/invincible MMA divisional pound for pound fighter in their specific weight class then its different


but the title says "dominant/invisible fighter" period... that goes well beyond weight classes/competition in the UFC


if we're just talking about using your body then its gotta be fedor


if weapons are involved then its a completely different discussion.

Even if you were strictly talking MMA heavyeights, it wouldn't be Fedor. His legend was boosted like crazy fighting no namers. His best competition during his prime was Mirko Cro Cop, a guy whose career hit a brick wall when he came over to the UFC, and Noguiera (who I won't be surprised if you've never even heard of). He didn't finish either one of them.

He never fought Couture, and was way over the hill by the time the heavyweight division hit its golden age after Brock Lesnar.

I won't say without a doubt that Fedor would lose to prime Cain, JDS, Stipe... or even Brock. But he probably would.

[kennethgriffen]

with hand to hand combat weapons included .. these are other possible candidates


Miyamoto Musashi


Miyamoto Musashi, also known as Shinmen Takezō, Miyamoto Bennosuke or, by his Buddhist name, Niten Dōraku, was a Japanese swordsman, philosopher, writer and rōnin. Musashi, as he was often simply known, became renowned through stories of his unique double-bladed swordsmanship and undefeated record in his 61 duels.

https://sisucg.files.wordpress.com/2011/01/musashi.jpg


Sir William Marshal


The Englishman Sir William Marshal (c. 1146-1219 CE, aka William the Marshal), Earl of Pembroke, is one of the most celebrated knights of the Middle Ages. Renowned for his fighting skills, he remained undefeated in tournaments, spared the life of Richard I, King of England

https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4209/35044175431_83b5b88a52_b.jpg

[kennethgriffen]

Even if you were strictly talking MMA heavyeights, it wouldn't be Fedor. His legend was boosted like crazy fighting no namers. His best competition during his prime was Mirko Cro Cop, a guy whose career hit a brick wall when he came over to the UFC, and Noguiera (who I won't be surprised if you've never even heard of). He didn't finish either one of them.

He never fought Couture, and was way over the hill by the time the heavyweight division hit its golden age after Brock Lesnar.

I won't say without a doubt that Fedor would lose to prime Cain, JDS, Stipe... or even Brock. But he probably would.


i'm just going based on majority opinion

its obviously debatable when fedor never faced certain guys

but i'm a strong believer in democracy as i've driven into kblazes thick skull many times over

fedor is the goat mma fighter by the jordan/ali/ruth/gretzky rule of law

[Prometheus]

i'm just going based on majority opinion

its obviously debatable when fedor never faced certain guys

but i'm a strong believer in democracy as i've driven into kblazes thick skull many times over

fedor is the goat mma fighter by the jordan/ali/ruth/gretzky rule of law

I like democracy, but not total democracy on topics like this.

It's gotta be annopen vote, but only among people who have at least some idea of what they say.

Like if all the current+retired NBA players alive today were polled, and it came out they all thought Kobe was actually the GOAT, I would accept it. A fan vote is useless.

If we could somehow poll everyone with a pro fight contract, I would accept their choice of GOAT.

It ain't Fedor though. This ain't the Brady argument either, where he has no problem with Brady as a choice, but just has a problem with the "it's this guy and that's it" outlook. It could be a number of different guys - it definitely isn't Fedor.

If you really wanna go the democracy route, I'm pretty sure Anderson Silva would get the GOAT title.

[kennethgriffen]

I like democracy, but not total democracy on topics like this.

It's gotta be annopen vote, but only among people who have at least some idea of what they say.

Like if all the current+retired NBA players alive today were polled, and it came out they all thought Kobe was actually the GOAT, I would accept it. A fan vote is useless.

If we could somehow poll everyone with a pro fight contract, I would accept their choice of GOAT.

It ain't Fedor though. This ain't the Brady argument either, where he has no problem with Brady as a choice, but just has a problem with the "it's this guy and that's it" outlook. It could be a number of different guys - it definitely isn't Fedor.

If you really wanna go the democracy route, I'm pretty sure Anderson Silva would get the GOAT title.



personally i think jones is better than fedor ... but jones cheated so i can't take him seriously


i've watched more ufc/mma than you think i've watched. i just only pay attention to the hyped guys


i knew little about khabib prior to the conor fight because he wasn't very hyped among the mainstream



i have people over for every ufc ppv and we watch most of it. i've probly seen thousands of fights ... i'm mostly drunk a lot of the time though

[Prometheus]

i've watched more ufc/mma than you think i've watched. i just only pay attention to the hyped guys

The only reason I doubt this is that in the Jones-Gustafsson thread you said Jon Jones was basically a 205 lb McGregor who doesn't really like grappling. It's pretty well-known that Jon Jones is one of the elite wrestlers in the entire sport. His wrestling is literally his greatest strength. DC was an olympic silver medal winner and Jones outwrestled him... decisicely.

On that note, I personally still think Jon Jones is the GOAT. I have a lot of reasonable doubt because of the doping, but what I've seen him do in his career has been unreal.

[Kblaze8855]

It's gotta be annopen vote, but only among people who have at least some idea of what they say.

Being alive means your opinion is valid on all subjects with or without knowledge of them.

[kennethgriffen]

Being alive means your opinion is valid on all subjects with or without knowledge of them.

this ^


valid for one vote. regardless of knowledge

why you ask... because in the end people tend to be sheep and follow the largest pack

so the easly led individuals who cant think for themselves side with the most logical decision most of the time


its nearly impossible for unprepaired individuals to just randomly throw a name out there.


in the end its actually more common to have an idiotic pick for goat when you have too much knowledge and you wanna go against the grain and distance yourself from "the idiots" like kblaze

[Prometheus]

Now you actually just made a case for less knowledge on a subject meaning your opinion is more valid. Carry on, soldier.

[kennethgriffen]

heres an example...

dumb people with little or no knowledge will tell you watermelon is the best tasting fruit..


why.. because its common knowledge and you go with the grain


but when youre a know it all hipster like kblaze they wanna go against the grain and say something stupid like "pink skin dragon fruit is the best"

even though its tasteless garbage

[kennethgriffen]

Now you actually just made a case for less knowledge on a subject meaning your opinion is more valid. Carry on, soldier.


i think more knowledge is better. but at a certain point your judgement gets clouded when you have too much knowledge. because you get full of yourself and need to pick an obscure selection to sound as smart as you think you are


its called foot in mouth syndrome... kblaze personifies it

[Prometheus]

That's relevant in art cricicism for sure

But art criticism is 99% bullshit anyway

When you're comparing athletes, more knowledge is always better. People don't pick obscure names to sojnd pretentious, they do it if they actually are. Or if they're right.

[kennethgriffen]

That's relevant in art cricicism for sure

But art criticism is 99% bullshit anyway

When you're comparing athletes, more knowledge is always better. People don't pick obscure names to sojnd pretentious, they do it if they actually are. Or if they're right.



i dunno man... kblaze is one of those guys who won't side with anything the mainstream backs ... and he brags about knowing more than anyone


i wouldn't be surprised if his goats for each sport were


boxing = Sam Langford
football = Lawrence Taylor
baseball = Josh Gibson
Basketball = Bill Russell
Hockey = Eddie Shore

[Prometheus]

You may be right.

If you are, I would argue that it's because he's pretentious, not because he knows too much.

Remember, while the masses think LeBron is undoubtedly better, the more seasoned hoop heads are the ones who understand Kobe >

[kennethgriffen]

You may be right.

If you are, I would argue that it's because he's pretentious, not because he knows too much.

Remember, while the masses think LeBron is undoubtedly better, the more seasoned hoop heads are the ones who understand Kobe >


actually its the "experts" who shit on kobe and the masses pick kobe over lebron


:lol

[kennethgriffen]

extreme knowledge about basketball created analytics ... the most cancerous method of evaluating talent


knowing too much statistical data actually made people believe they could go without watching games.. now you can just read box scores and have an opinion

:roll:


i rest my case

[Vragrant]

extreme knowledge about basketball created analytics ... the most cancerous method of evaluating talent


knowing too much statistical data actually made people believe they could go without watching games.. now you can just read box scores and have an opinion

:roll:


i rest my case

so true.

[Prometheus]

Analytics guys are not the experts I'm talking about. I'm talking about how former players, coaches, and more knowledgable fans pick kobe whereas younger fans and casuals take bron

[tontoz]

He hasnt cleaned out the division the way Jones, GSP and Silva did. He also doesnt finish guys very often.

Great fighter but has more to prove to be the goat.

[kennethgriffen]

Analytics guys are not the experts I'm talking about. I'm talking about how former players, coaches, and more knowledgable fans pick kobe whereas younger fans and casuals take bron




former players/coaches are never know it alls. they know enough like me




when you're too invested you become obsessed and fall into agendas/narratives and wanna distance yourself from the mainstream. then places like realgm are created and keep people like me out of there who don't conform


while in the nba circle you have a free open press without factions... guys don't truly care if a players feelings are hurt. you have truth tellers like charles barkley whos accurate WAAAAAY more often than a guy like nick wright is


even though nick wright is "an expert" and knows more "facts" he still won't give an honest opinion unless it fits his agenda


so knowing too much makes you a geek. and geeks are obsessed lunatics. they go even beyond my obsessiveness. i couldn't even get up on national TV and proclaim kobes GOAT status over MJ. but a guy like nick wright can because they're delusional c*ck suckers. they're "never wrong about anything"



see where i'm going