3rd option in his prime.. after ranking #2 in BPM, #3 in PER/VORP, and #4 in WS/48??

[3ball]

How many times has a top 4 advanced stat guy (PER, BPM, etc) played 3rd option like Love did?

But now everyone thinks Love can't play after playing with lebron

[warriorfan]

Rebounding champion, 26/12 guy on amazing efficiency. He has posted numbers that have only been matched by Kareem Abdul Jabbar and Wilt....and Love did it in the modern era. He was a legit superstar in Minnesota.

[FKAri]

Ya. Dennis "Madonna's #2 option" Rodman.

[Dray n Klay]

How many times has a top 4 advanced stat guy (PER, BPM, etc) played 3rd option like Love did?

But now everyone thinks Love can't play after playing with lebron

3ball...

1) Why were the Cavs 0-4 with Love this season?

2) Will Love average 26/12 once he comes back this season?

3) Why did Love only average 8ppg in the 2016 Finals?

4) Why were the Cavs better overall in the playoffs when Love didn't play?




I want an explanation for each of these questions :confusedshrug:

[superduper]

3ball...

1) Why were the Cavs 0-4 with Love this season?

2) Will Love average 26/12 once he comes back this season?

3) Why did Love only average 8ppg in the 2016 Finals?

4) Why were the Cavs better overall in the playoffs when Love didn't play?




I want an explanation for each of these questions :confusedshrug:

Why did LeGOAT not win in 2015 with ZERO allstars??

I've asked you this question 10x and each time it's been avoided like the plague. Please, I need an answer.

[SpaceJam]

I agree with OP, also considering these are the stats that put Bron and MJ pretty damn close I think it's safe to assume the GOAT is well and truly up for debate

[3ball]

I agree with OP, also considering these are the stats that put Bron and MJ pretty damn close I think it's safe to assume the GOAT is well and truly up for debate

Show me a list of singular accomplishments for lebron that compares to this:


- only player with 4+ fmvp (mj has 6)
- only player at 30/5/5 for regular season... and playoffs... and Finals
- all-time leader in PPG, including a 4-point margin in playoffs
- 10 scoring titles (record)
- only player to win scoring title & dpoy in same season (88').. he also won MVP that yr
- only perimeter player to win scoring title and title in same season (6 times)
- all-time playoff records for single game pts, series ppg, and Finals ppg
- #1 all-time championship frequency since the 3-point line began (6 in 15 yrs.. 40.0%)
- only MVP to win 70+ and the championship
- only player to sweep all 3 MVP's, scoring title, 1st team all-D, and ring in same season
- only player that is top 2 in career PER, VORP, BPM, WS/48 for regular season and playoffs
- highest frequency of combined 1st team all-nba and 1st team all-defense - 19 selections in 10 seasons
- only HOF that was never outscored by a teammate in a playoff series (MJ led team by average margin of 15.4 ppg over 2nd option)
- only top 10 player to never lose with a good team (1 or 2 seed)
- Best winning stats ever - 33.7 ppg and 6.6 apg in 91-93' PO (27.2 and 7.2 for lebron in 12/13/16' PO)
- Best losing stats ever - 44 ppg against champion 86' celtics and their #1 defense, and 40 ppg combined versus 86' and 87' celts


I'll wait

[SpaceJam]

Show me a list of singular accomplishments for lebron that compares to this:


- only player with 4+ fmvp (mj has 6)
- only player at 30/5/5 for regular season... and playoffs... and Finals
- all-time leader in PPG, including a 4-point margin in playoffs
- 10 scoring titles (record)
- only player to win scoring title & dpoy in same season (88').. he also won MVP that yr
- only perimeter player to win scoring title and title in same season (6 times)
- all-time playoff records for single game pts, series ppg, and Finals ppg
- #1 all-time championship frequency since the 3-point line began (6 in 15 yrs.. 40.0%)
- only MVP to win 70+ and the championship
- only player to sweep all 3 MVP's, scoring title, 1st team all-D, and ring in same season
- only player that is top 2 in career PER, VORP, BPM, WS/48 for regular season and playoffs
- highest frequency of combined 1st team all-nba and 1st team all-defense - 19 selections in 10 seasons
- only HOF that was never outscored by a teammate in a playoff series (MJ led team by average margin of 15.4 ppg over 2nd option)
- only top 10 player to never lose with a good team (1 or 2 seed)
- Best winning stats ever - 33.7 ppg and 6.6 apg in 91-93' PO (27.2 and 7.2 for lebron in 12/13/16' PO)
- Best losing stats ever - 44 ppg against champion 86' celtics and their #1 defense, and 40 ppg combined versus 86' and 87' celts


I'll wait

Show me ones besides those advanced stats that say Love was a top 3/4 player before LeBron

[3ball]

Show me ones besides those advanced stats that say Love was a top 3/4 player before LeBron
Only love and Kareem ever averaged 26/13/4

Something like that

Btw, being top 4 in all 4 advanced stats shows that he was a top 4 player.. Similar to Wade in 10', who was top 2 in all four categories.. Wade was the #2 player in 10'

[Dray n Klay]

3ball...

1) Why were the Cavs 0-4 with Love this season?

2) Will Love average 26/12 once he comes back this season?

3) Why did Love only average 8ppg in the 2016 Finals?

4) Why were the Cavs better overall in the playoffs when Love didn't play?




I want an explanation for each of these questions :confusedshrug:


3ball.. answer these questions

[warriorfan]

Only two players in the history of the game have put up 26/12.5/4.5/59%TS

https://i.postimg.cc/Ghb3WLhR/F27-E1-A18-15-F6-4301-B4-C0-4-E36279130-A5.jpg

Prime Kareem Abdul Jabbar and Kevin Love

[SpaceJam]

Only love and Kareem ever averaged 26/13/4

Something like that

Btw, being top 4 in all 4 advanced stats shows that he was a top 4 player.. Similar to Wade in 10', who was top 2 in all four categories.. Wade was the #2 player in 10'

Interesting point, so the fact Bron is....

#6 in WS/48
#1 in VORP
#1 in BPM
#2 in PER

For his career, put him at the very least 3rd all time?

[SouBeachTalents]

Wow, what were his playoff stats?

[SouBeachTalents]

Interesting point, so the fact Bron is....

#6 in WS/48
#1 in VORP
#1 in BPM
#2 in PER

For his career, put him at the very least 3rd all time?
Yep, looks to be consensus top 3-5 all time based off that :applause:

[SpaceJam]

Yep, looks to be consensus top 3-5 all time based off that :applause:

Lock for top 3 honestly, plausible top 2, debatable GOAT.

Astounding, I have to thank 3ball for bringing this to my attention and single handily ending the years long debate on ISH

[superduper]

Why did LeGOAT not win in 2015 with ZERO allstars??

I've asked you this question 10x and each time it's been avoided like the plague. Please, I need an answer.

DnK answer my question please

[The Iron Fist]

Interesting point, so the fact Bron is....

#6 in WS/48
#1 in VORP
#1 in BPM
#2 in PER

For his career, put him at the very least 3rd all time?
6 losses drops him down quite a bit. Stats mean squat when you

[SouBeachTalents]

[QUOTE=The Iron Fist]6 losses drops him down quite a bit. Stats mean squat when you

[SpaceJam]

[QUOTE=The Iron Fist]6 losses drops him down quite a bit. Stats mean squat when you

[warriorfan]

[QUOTE=The Iron Fist]6 losses drops him down quite a bit. Stats mean squat when you

[warriorfan]

K Love hadn't played a single playoff game up until joining Cavs

Also .311 win percentage through his Minnesota career, so why is he regarded a top 4 player?

Not enough help. I

[FKAri]

[QUOTE=warriorfan]That

[SpaceJam]

[QUOTE=warriorfan]Not enough help. I

[warriorfan]

Lebron stans right now

https://i.postimg.cc/4NCswGn6/2-D1-DE52-E-5-BB0-4222-9-A34-C7-B312178-A47.jpg

[SpaceJam]

Can I pick both? Considering Bron got the stats and rings?

[FKAri]

Lebron stans right now

https://i.postimg.cc/4NCswGn6/2-D1-DE52-E-5-BB0-4222-9-A34-C7-B312178-A47.jpg
LeBron has his hefty balls holding down both buttons. I don't see your point.

[warriorfan]

Feel like a top 4 player should be able to will his team to at least a single playoff berth in 6 seasons

I mean HECK Bron beat a 73-win team down 3-1 without an All-Star

Top 10 player should be able to at least win more than 3 chips after team hopping multiple times with the best players in his conference (or the entire league for that matter)

[SpaceJam]

Top 10 player should be able to at least win more than 3 chips after team hopping multiple times with the best players in his conference (or the entire league for that matter)

I'll give you Wade bro, Bosh, Irving, Love career losers. Can't really take em serious

Aim of the game is winning right?

[3ball]

3ball...

1) Why were the Cavs 0-4 with Love this season?

2) Will Love average 26/12 once he comes back this season?

3) Why did Love only average 8ppg in the 2016 Finals?

4) Why were the Cavs better overall in the playoffs when Love didn't play?




I want an explanation for each of these questions :confusedshrug:
1) they were installing a new offense.. this was necessary because lebron's game didn't allow an equal opportunity system that could run in his absence, like curry, MJ, Kobe and Duncan's teams had (the only dynasties of the last 30 years).. their superior skill allowed an the best brand of basketball, while his prevents it

2) No.. lebron used up his prime and then dipped, per the usual.. see 2014 for the first iteration of "record-defeat-then-dip" routine

3) it's one of the most egregious wastes of talent ever, due primarily to lebron's preposterous 8.2 minutes time of possession... This pg-level time combined with kyrie's time leaves little time for love, who had more time in traditional 1-PG lineups than lebron-ball's 2-PG approach..

4) not sure.. we know Love is a great player, but he simply has no time to score or assist in lebron-ball's 2-PG lineups.. this is why many players cratered alongside Bron - the 2-PG approach reduced time for Bosh, Jamison, Shaq, Crowder, Hood, and Ingram, while hurting the game of IT, Rose, Wade and other ball-handlers

[Dray n Klay]

4) not sure..


Hmm.. not sure.. interesting


Will Love carry the Cavs to the playoffs this season or next? Since the East is so much weaker than the West? :confusedshrug:

[3ball]

Hmm.. not sure.. interesting


Will Love carry the Cavs to the playoffs this season or next? Since the East is so much weaker than the West? :confusedshrug:
Love and Kyrie would've been contending every year

[Dray n Klay]

Love and Kyrie would've been contending every year


What about Love, Sexton, and Cavs 2019 pick?


That looks like a contender, right?



And Cavs were only 4-22 in games Kyrie/Love played without LeBron


So you

[r15mohd]

[QUOTE=warriorfan]That

[TheCorporation]

3ball...

1) Why were the Cavs 0-4 with Love this season?

2) Will Love average 26/12 once he comes back this season?

3) Why did Love only average 8ppg in the 2016 Finals?

4) Why were the Cavs better overall in the playoffs when Love didn't play?




I want an explanation for each of these questions :confusedshrug:

He wont because 3ball likes to create false agendas

[Hamtaro CP3KDKG]

Wow, what were his playoff stats?

played in the West in one of its most stacked conferences ever where a 48 win Suns team missed the playoffs

Wolves were 9th in offense and top 10 in SRS/point differential

they were just unlucky to play in the West. Ur boy Bran is finding that out first hand this season:lol :lol

[TheCorporation]

played in the West in one of its most stacked conferences ever where a 48 win Suns team missed the playoffs

Wolves were 9th in offense and top 10 in SRS/point differential

they were just unlucky to play in the West. Ur boy Bran is finding that out first hand this season:lol :lol

Love was a joke in Minny and stayed a joke in Cleveland

He had zero playoff wins in Minny
He had zero playoff APPEARANCES in Minny
He has had 3x 20/10 seasons in 11 years
Cool.

[warriorfan]

played in the West in one of its most stacked conferences ever where a 48 win Suns team missed the playoffs

Wolves were 9th in offense and top 10 in SRS/point differential

they were just unlucky to play in the West. Ur boy Bran is finding that out first hand this season:lol :lol

True. In 2014 Kevin Love’s wolves had a record of 40-42. (https://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/MIN/2014.html)

That same year the Hawks made the East playoffs with a record of 38-44 (https://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/ATL/2014.html)

So you are right, if Kevin Love was fortunate enough to play in the weaker Eastern conference he would have had a playoff seed.

(The poster above me is extremely low iq)

[SouBeachTalents]

played in the West in one of its most stacked conferences ever where a 48 win Suns team missed the playoffs

Wolves were 9th in offense and top 10 in SRS/point differential

they were just unlucky to play in the West. Ur boy Bran is finding that out first hand this season:lol :lol
Even if they were eligible to make the playoffs in the East, they would've STILL missed it 5/6 years, and the one year they'd have made it, they would've been the fcking 8 seed :lol

You simply can't blame the conference completely for posting win totals of 24, 15, 17, 26 & 31 for half a decade. They didn't even post a winning record one time against the East his first 5 seasons in Minny

[warriorfan]

Even if they were eligible to make the playoffs in the East, they would've STILL missed it 5/6 years, and the one year they'd have made it, they would've been the fcking 8 seed :lol

You simply can't blame the conference completely for posting win totals of 24, 15, 17, 26 & 31 for half a decade. They didn't even post a winning record one time against the East his first 5 seasons in Minny

He needed more help

[TheCorporation]

So you are right, if Kevin Love was fortunate enough to play in the weaker Eastern conference he would have had a playoff seed.

(The poster above me is extremely low iq)

Yeah and IF Stephen Curry wasn't a beta bitch he wouldn't be 4/44 with ZERO Finals MVPs

https://i.postimg.cc/Fs3Py0nq/tenor.gif

[SouBeachTalents]

He needed more help
But if you're truly a top 4 player in the league, like the OP is claiming, you should be able to take any roster to the playoffs on a consistent basis. KG in Minny, T-Mac in Orlando, Kobe in '06/'07 & Wade in '09/'10 had absolutely terrible rosters, yet they took their teams to the playoffs nearly every year, because they were legitimate top 5 caliber players

[warriorfan]

But if you're truly a top 4 player in the league, like the OP is claiming, you should be able to take any roster to the playoffs on a regular basis. KG in Minny, T-Mac in Orlando, Kobe in '06/'07 & Wade in '09/'10 had absolutely terrible rosters, yet they took their teams to the playoffs nearly every year, because they were legitimately top 5 level players

He needed more help. You are seriously underestimating Loves teammates over that span. Go look it up.

[TheCorporation]

He needed more help. You are seriously underestimating Loves teammates over that span. Go look it up.

Carmelo Anthony took teams to the playoffs. Let that sink in.

[SouBeachTalents]

He needed more help. You are seriously underestimating Loves teammates over that span. Go look it up.
His teams were dreadful, but definitely no worse than what McGrady had in Orlando, or Wade post Shaq & pre LeBron

[warriorfan]

His teams were dreadful, but definitely no worse than what McGrady had in Orlando, or Wade post Shaq & pre LeBron

Two East teams you mentioned there. And still those teams were better than anything Minnesota was able to roll out. Look it up man.

[warriorfan]

Carmelo Anthony took teams to the playoffs. Let that sink in.

FYI Melo used to be quite the baller back in the day. His Nugget teams were dangerous and even his NY teams were far better than anything Love had to work with.

[SpaceJam]

Plenty of West teams that weren't anything special that snuck in 8th seed

2012 Jazz
2013 Rockets

Examples from the Minny/Love era. You'd expect more from a top 4 player in the league no?

[And1AllDay]

Stating this while posting in a thread about Kevin Love's stats on the Wolves

:roll:

:roll: :roll:

[warriorfan]

Plenty of West teams that weren't anything special that snuck in 8th seed

2012 Jazz
2013 Rockets

Examples from the Minny/Love era. You'd expect more from a top 4 player in the league no?

Both of those teams are deeper than any Minnesota team.

[SpaceJam]

Both of those teams are deeper than any Minnesota team.

Eh Love had a 19ppg scorer in Kevin Martin and a solid 18/9 bigman in Pekovic. Still had nothing to show for it

[warriorfan]

Eh Love had a 19ppg scorer in Kevin Martin and a solid 18/9 bigman in Pekovic. Still had nothing to show for it

That’s life when you’re in the West.

[SpaceJam]

[QUOTE=warriorfan]That

[bullettooth]

He wont because 3ball likes to create false agendas

:lol

Hypocrite.

[warriorfan]

Harden made it with Parsons and Lin putting up 16ppg and 13ppg respectively :confusedshrug:

Al Jeff got in with Milsap's 17/9 similar to Pekovic....but again didn't have that 19ppg Kevin Martin. Only had a sophmore Hayward.

I think it's fair to say we didn't see Harden as a top 4 player in 2014 just yet, and I'm 100% sure Al Jefferson wasn't a top 4 player in 2012. So why is it they seemed able to reach the playoffs when Kevin 'TOP 4, ALL TIME GREAT, NUMBERS ONLY SEE BY KAREEM AND HIMSELF' Love just couldn't do it

Parsons>Kevin Martin
Beverly/Lin>Rubio

Harden had a better team by far

And what are you even arguing? James Harden is better than Kevin Love? He probably is, and that

[SpaceJam]

[QUOTE=warriorfan]Parsons>Kevin Martin
Beverly/Lin>Rubio

Harden had a better team by far

And what are you even arguing? James Harden is better than Kevin Love? He probably is, and that

[warriorfan]

And Pekovic putting up damn near 20/10? We ignoring that? Also since Love was a top 4 player during that time, but as you said Harden is better what other two players round out your top 4 in 2013/2014?

Harden, Love, James, KD sounds about right.

[SpaceJam]

Harden, Love, James, KD sounds about right.

YIKES