We're seeing what Lebron would've done on a developing, new coach Bulls team in 1990

[3ball]

Lebron and his business team would get the young, 1st time coach fired and ship out the 16-18 point 2nd options for an established stud that could carry the offensive load better

He needs ready-made teams with star vets - his style doesn't develop players or teams

What am I missing

Oh.. the triangle.. he'd never play in that either
.

[r15mohd]

He'd get the young, 1st time coach fired and ship out the 16-18 point 2nd options for an established stud that could carry the offensive load better

What am I missing


Many would attest to quite a few screws, I

[AirTupac]

Hes such a lying cvnt. Talks about wanting the young guys to grow. So cringe.


LeCringe HGHames

[bigkingsfan]

Michael Jordan nixed a Tracy McGrady-Scottie Pippen trade in 1997. :roll:

[3ball]

Michael Jordan nixed a Tracy McGrady-Scottie Pippen trade in 1997. :roll:
There was another trade for Kemp that almost happened

Indeed, we see the ACTUAL value of pippen by seeing what was offered for him - his value was somewhere between rookie mcgrady and prime kemp.. sounds about right.. although kemp was a FAR better player when they faced each other in the 96' Finals

[bigkingsfan]

There was another trade for Kemp that almost happened

Indeed, we see the ACTUAL value of pippen by seeing what was offered for him - his value was somewhere between rookie mcgrady and prime kemp.. sounds about right.. although kemp was a FAR better player when they faced each other in the 96' Finals
Makes sense MJ veto it, going 1-9 and all.

[Anti Vida]

Lebron and his team would get the young, 1st time coach fired and ship out the 16-18 point 2nd options for an established stud that could carry the offensive load better

What am I missing
.

He also would put out media stories to keep his name in the headlines and send subliminal shots to the front office, his teammates and coach. He would not accept the blame for any losses, and he wouldn't sign a contract that would let the team know they have time to actually build a team rather than getting rental pieces to put around him out of fear he could bolt elsewhere.

[Da_Realist]

He also would put out media stories to keep his name in the headlines and send subliminal shots to the front office, his teammates and coach. He would not accept the blame for any losses, and he wouldn't sign a contract that would let the team know they have time to actually build a team rather than getting rental pieces to put around him out of fear he could bolt elsewhere.

:applause:

[ShawkFactory]

Lebron is almost a decade older than Jordan was then. You think 3 time champ Jordan would have had the patience for a bunch of 2nd year players? :lol

[3ball]

Lebron is almost a decade older than Jordan was then. You think 3 time champ Jordan would have had the patience for a bunch of 2nd year players? :lol
MJ didn't have to hop around because he built a dynasty

That's the point - lebron needs ready-made teams with star vets - his style doesn't develop young players or teams.. like we've said all along.. :cheers: ..

Now it's coming to fruition - he's got a young team, and he's about to blow it up for the ready-made team that he's ALWAYS needed.. I guess he was willing to risk a young team this time because of outside business interests.. but apparently, despite have several young stud teammates, lebron's team sees urgency and now prefers the ready-made route

[sdot_thadon]

um we already saw what lebron would do on a developing team and new coach. 2007 finals at 22. :bowdown:

[superduper]

um we already saw what lebron would do on a developing team and new coach. 2007 finals at 22. :bowdown:

Why was LeGOAT the worst player on the team in the finals BY FAR? And single handedly the reason the Cavs lost?

And how is that a developing team when they were full of vets :lol

Bran stans :biggums:

[Duncan21formvp]

Lebron at his peak couldn't even beat Dwight Howard. He is a failure.

[ShawkFactory]

MJ didn't have to hop around because he built a dynasty

That's the point - lebron needs ready-made teams with star vets - his style doesn't develop young players or teams.. like we've said all along.. :cheers: ..

Now it's coming to fruition - he's got a young team, and he's about to blow it up for the ready-made team that he's ALWAYS needed.. I guess he was willing to risk a young team this time because of outside business interests.. but apparently, despite have several young stud teammates, lebron's team sees urgency and now prefers the ready-made route
Yea. He

[sdot_thadon]

And how is that a developing team when they were full of vets :lol

Bran stans :biggums:

the 2007 Cavs 10 years vets: 3

the 2019 Lakers 10 year vets: 5

2007 Cavs 8 year vets: 7

2019 Lakers 8 year vets: 6

2007 Cavs 5 year vets: 8

2019 Lakers 5 year vets: 7

:rolleyes:

[3ball]

the 2007 Cavs 10 years vets: 3

the 2019 Lakers 10 year vets: 5

2007 Cavs 8 year vets: 7

2019 Lakers 8 year vets: 6

2007 Cavs 5 year vets: 8

2019 Lakers 5 year vets: 7

:rolleyes:
Zydrunas/Hughes/Gooden were 31/28/25, versus 23/21/20 for Kuzma/Ingram/Ball

The starters are much younger n these lakers

[warriorfan]

Lebron and his business team would get the young, 1st time coach fired and ship out the 16-18 point 2nd options for an established stud that could carry the offensive load better

He needs ready-made teams with star vets - his style doesn't develop players or teams

What am I missing

Oh.. the triangle.. he'd never play in that either
.

So true about the triangle. I always get a good laugh when people say

[OldSchoolBBall]

The idea of Lebron playing in the triangle is hysterical. Dude wouldn't know what to do with himself, and his supposed "sky high basketball IQ" would be exposed.

[And1AllDay]

At least we know Bron aint going to play baseball :oldlol:

[sportjames23]

um we already saw what lebron would do on a developing team and new coach. 2007 finals at 22. :bowdown:

And swept at 22

http://www.reactiongifs.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/OoOoo.gif

[TheCorporation]

And swept at 22

http://www.reactiongifs.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/OoOoo.gif

What no way? Against 10.7 #2 Jeff Hornacek? 6'1 Payton? Terry Porter?

Oh, he actually played against a dynasty. Never mind yawwwwn

[3ball]

Um we already saw what lebron would do on a developing team and new coach. 2007 finals at 22. :bowdown:



It isn't about the developing team, it's about whether the developing team can grow into a champion. Lebron can't do it, so he's blowing these lakers up

And the stats show that lebron's upsets don't exceed MJ's:



2007 Cavs:. #7 SRS.. 50 wins.. 2 seed
2007 tDET:. #6 SRS.. 53 wins.. 1 seed

2018 Cavs:. #14 SRS.. 50 wins.. 4 seed
2018 tTOR:.lt #2 SRS.. 59 wins.. 1 seed

1989 Bulls:. #10 SRS.. 47 wins.. 6 seed
1989 Cavs:. n#1 SRS.. 57 wins.. 3 seed


^^^ Jordan's 89' upset matches lebron's 18', and both exceed 07'... But MJ did more with less, since his 6 seed took the champs 6 games, while lebron's 2 and 4 seeds had record sweeps.

Btw, lebron only needed 26-27 ppg average thru the first 3 rounds to make the 07/11/13/14 Finals, whereas MJ needed over 30 to make every Finals. And he needed to produce more to win - 33.7 and 6.6 apg in the 91-93' PO, versus 27.1 and 7.2 in the 12/13/16 PO for Bron.. while also having better losing stats - 37/7/7 in 90' PO, or 44 ppg vs 86' celts

[tpols]

its pretty astonishing... dude just has some of the worst intangibles of any GOAT.

Cant develop or play alongside young talent, and underachieves with MVP / all NBA stacked squads.

[3ball]

What no upset?



the stats show that MJ's upsets are equal or better than lebron's:



2007 Cavs:. #7 SRS.. 50 wins.. 2 seed
2007 tDET:. #6 SRS.. 53 wins.. 1 seed

2018 Cavs:. #14 SRS.. 50 wins.. 4 seed
2018 tTOR:.lt #2 SRS.. 59 wins.. 1 seed

1989 Bulls:. #10 SRS.. 47 wins.. 6 seed
1989 Cavs:. n#1 SRS.. 57 wins.. 3 seed


^^^ Jordan's 89' upset matches lebron's 18', and both exceed 07'... But MJ did more with less, since his 6 seed took the champs 6 games, while lebron's 2 and 4 seeds had record sweeps.

Furthermore, lebron created the long odds he faced in 2018 by not faring well with IT, Rose, Hood, Crowder, thereby winning less with lower seed and SRS. The Cavs were actually 3-time defending East champs, not a young, low seed like the 89' bulls.

So even though lebron's upset in 18' statistically compares to MJ's in 89', it's inferior when the aforementioned context is considered.

Indeed, mj's 89' run reigns as the better carry-job, and the stats have always shown that (http://insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=12055953&postcount=40).





What no way? Against 10.7 #2 Jeff Hornacek? 6'1 Payton? Terry Porter?


1) Payton was the same height as Wade

2) Hornacek beat Shaq, Duncan and Hakeem in the 98' playoffs - that's 3 top 10 players and therefore the most talent that anyone ever beat to make a Finals .... so I think he's good comp for MJ





MJ never played against a dynasty.


Isiah was 29 in 1991.. dumars and rodman were 27. They were all-stars and the team was favored to 3-peat heading into the 91' season (http://articles.latimes.com/1990-10-28/sports/sp-4734_1_detroit-pistons).

So they were a dynasty, but the bulls simply destroyed them the same way the 14' spurs beat the 2-time Heat: with superior brand of ball against an all-star team (pistons had 3x all-stars at every starting spot; bulls had 1x pippen)

Surely it's an easier path to land on the Finals favorite heading into the 2011 and 2015 (https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2241463-nba-championship-odds-2014-15-every-teams-chances-of-winning-the-nba-title#slide0) seasons (year 1), than elevate the bulls from 8-seed doormats in 86' and win as underdogs heading into (http://articles.latimes.com/1990-10-28/sports/sp-4734_1_detroit-pistons) the 91' season.





MJ never played against a dynasty


Sam Perkins and Vlade Divac were sophisticated bigs that could pass/shoot and both averaged 17/9 in the 91' Finals - they were easily better than anyone after the magic/mj and worthy/pippen matchups..

and btw, magic was 31 and runner-up for league MVP, while worthy was all-nba and led the Lakers in Finals scoring at 19 ppg... After magic/worthy/divac/perkins, the Lakers still had 90' all-star ac green (divac/perkins took his minutes).. and elden campbell...

That's way more talent than the bulls had, and the Lakers best players had been to a combined 12 Finals, versus the Bulls' zero - for these reasons, the bulls were underdogs heading into the 91' Finals, as NBA.com documents:


the Bulls were considered big underdogs to the Lakers in the Finals and the vast majority of media "experts" predicted an easy Lakers' victory.

http://www.nba.com/bulls/news/top-20-moments-1990-91-season.html/





Never mind yawwwwn


Ultimately, Lebron sacrifices the best opportunity to win (ball movement) by attempting to win in a ball-dominant/stat-padding way - this self-serving approach creates long odds and accordingly, rarely wins at the championship level. 3/9

And the stats don't lie.. lebron only needed 26-27 ppg average thru the first 3 rounds to make the 07/11/13/14 Finals, whereas MJ needed over 30 to make every Finals. MJ simply produced more to win - 33.7 and 6.6 apg in the 91-93' PO, versus 27.1 and 7.2 in the 12/13/16 PO for lebron.. while also having better losing stats - 37/7/7 in 90' PO, or 44 ppg vs 86' celts

Finally, only lebron was a bonafide "bad defender" in his last 4 Finals losses - no spur or warrior scored more than 2 points above their RS average in the 14/15/17/18 Finals, except Iggy (8.5 above avg), Durant (10.1), Kawhi (5.0), and McGee (4.0).. so lebron was the leak on the defensive end
.

[superduper]

What no way? Against 10.7 #2 Jeff Hornacek? 6'1 Payton? Terry Porter?

Oh, he actually played against a dynasty. Never mind yawwwwn

If Payton is 6'1 then MJ is 6'1.5

http://cdn1-www.hoopsvibe.com/assets/uploads/2013/04/file_170797_0_gpjordan.jpg

[sdot_thadon]

Zydrunas/Hughes/Gooden were 31/28/25, versus 23/21/20 for Kuzma/Ingram/Ball

The starters are much younger n these lakers
right and Lebron would be 10 whole years older than Mj was in this scenario. Poor 3bum when you move goalposts so much you'll always end up boxing yourself in. Funny to watch you do it though.:oldlol:

[3ball]

right and Lebron would be 10 whole years older than Mj was in this scenario. Poor 3bum when you move goalposts so much you'll always end up boxing yourself in. Funny to watch you do it though.:oldlol:
34 year old mj embraced phil and the triangle even more than 90' mj did..

MJ was fundamentally-sound, and would never jettison Phil or any coach like what lebron did to Luke and Blatt, and tried terminate spolestra too (but Riley put him in his place)

So age has nothing to do with it

Lebron simply sacrifices the best opportunity to win (ball movement/good coaching) by attempting to win in a ball-dominant/stat-padding way - this self-serving approach requires more help and creates long odds.. Accordingly, it rarely wins at the championship level. 3/9

And surely it's an easier path to land on the Finals favorite heading into the 2011 and 2015 seasons (year 1), than elevate the bulls from 8-seed doormats in 86' and win as underdogs heading into the 91' season (http://articles.latimes.com/1990-10-28/sports/sp-4734_1_detroit-pistons)... (2015 pre-season odds (https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2241463-nba-championship-odds-2014-15-every-teams-chances-of-winning-the-nba-title#slide0))

Finally, the stats don't lie.. lebron only needed 26-27 ppg average thru the first 3 rounds to make the 07/11/13/14 Finals, whereas MJ needed over 30 to make every Finals. And MJ simply produced more to win: 33.7 and 6.6 apg in the 91-93' PO, versus 27.1 and 7.2 in the 12/13/16 PO for lebron.. while also having better losing stats - 37/7/7 in 90' PO, or 44 ppg vs 86' celts
.

[TheCorporation]

https://i.postimg.cc/qMY3v9HM/LBJh8ralert.jpg

[3ball]

https://i.postimg.cc/qMY3v9HM/LBJh8ralert.jpg
That's a white flag to my last post, so it's settled.

Lebron simply sacrifices the best opportunity to win (ball movement/good coaching) by attempting to win in a ball-dominant/stat-padding way - this self-serving approach requires more help and creates long odds.. Accordingly, it rarely wins at the championship level. 3/9

And surely it's an easier path to land on the Finals favorite heading into the 2011 and 2015 seasons (year 1), than elevate the bulls from 8-seed doormats in 86' and win as underdogs heading into the 91' season (http://articles.latimes.com/1990-10-28/sports/sp-4734_1_detroit-pistons)... (2015 pre-season odds (https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2241463-nba-championship-odds-2014-15-every-teams-chances-of-winning-the-nba-title#slide0))

Finally, the stats don't lie.. lebron only needed 26-27 ppg average thru the first 3 rounds to make the 07/11/13/14 Finals, whereas MJ needed over 30 to make every Finals. And MJ simply produced more to win: 33.7 and 6.6 apg in the 91-93' PO, versus 27.1 and 7.2 in the 12/13/16 PO for lebron.. while also having better losing stats - 37/7/7 in 90' PO, or 44 ppg vs 86' celts

[TheCorporation]

If Payton is 6'1 then MJ is 6'1.5

http://cdn1-www.hoopsvibe.com/assets/uploads/2013/04/file_170797_0_gpjordan.jpg

Ok geeze, 6'2.5 Payton

[NBAGOAT]

you praise mj if he orchestrated a pippen trade for a barkley or malone lol. Double standards. I frankly dont care. It sucks for ingram, ball, kuzma and yes bron didnt gel well with some(mainly ingram). I get that bron may have kickstarted the super team era but I still dont care.

Golden State just throws things out of balance. 5 all stars is unprecedented. There may be teams in the 80's that compare but no team in the 90's besides MJ's own is in the same stratosphere as GS(i will laugh at people who suggest sonics or jazz). Hou last year is an easy finals team most years and they needed GS to sleepwalk through the series to have a chance.

Every team should be trying to stack the deck which is why very good teams like mil and tor are pushing so hard for ad and okc and hou are considering going after cousins next year just to compete with gs even though they dont need centers

[sdot_thadon]

34 year old mj embraced phil and the triangle even more than 90' mj did..

MJ was fundamentally-sound, and would never jettison Phil or any coach like what lebron did to Luke and Blatt, and tried terminate spolestra too (but Riley put him in his place)

So age has nothing to do with it

Lebron simply sacrifices the best opportunity to win (ball movement/good coaching) by attempting to win in a ball-dominant/stat-padding way - this self-serving approach requires more help and creates long odds.. Accordingly, it rarely wins at the championship level. 3/9

And surely it's an easier path to land on the Finals favorite heading into the 2011 and 2015 seasons (year 1), than elevate the bulls from 8-seed doormats in 86' and win as underdogs heading into the 91' season (http://articles.latimes.com/1990-10-28/sports/sp-4734_1_detroit-pistons)... (2015 pre-season odds (https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2241463-nba-championship-odds-2014-15-every-teams-chances-of-winning-the-nba-title#slide0))

Finally, the stats don't lie.. lebron only needed 26-27 ppg average thru the first 3 rounds to make the 07/11/13/14 Finals, whereas MJ needed over 30 to make every Finals. And MJ simply produced more to win: 33.7 and 6.6 apg in the 91-93' PO, versus 27.1 and 7.2 in the 12/13/16 PO for lebron.. while also having better losing stats - 37/7/7 in 90' PO, or 44 ppg vs 86' celts
.
i love how you typed that wall of text to try to shift the goalposts yet again. Mj at 34 never had to deal with a young team nor unproven coach......so what's your point besides contorting yourself into knots trying to compare Mj and Lebron and making Mj look worse in every attempt.

[3ball]

i love how you typed that wall of text to try to shift the goalposts yet again. Mj at 34 never had to deal with a young team nor unproven coach......so what's your point besides contorting yourself into knots trying to compare Mj and Lebron and making Mj look worse in every attempt.
Lebron chose to play with young players because he cratered in Cleveland and couldn't build a dynasty

Whereas MJ built a dynasty, so ur inventing a scenario that MJ was good enough to avoid (having to start over late into his prime)..

mj isn't REQUIRED to play with a young team late in his career - lebron had to do that because he cratered in Cleveland, and subsequently viewed these Lakers as the best scenario to enhance his career going forward.. But if he was good enough to have consistent favorites and long-standing dynasties in Miami or Cleveland, he wouldn't need to reinvent his career in his mid-thirties

By lamenting that lebron must lead a young team late in his prime, ur giving lebron a pass for something you should be knocking him for (losing more and being a team-hopping underdog, rather than the favorite and a dynasty)

[3ball]

you'd praise mj if he orchestrated a pippen trade for a barkley or malone lol. Double standards. I frankly dont care. It sucks for ingram, ball, kuzma and yes bron didnt gel well with some(mainly ingram). I get that bron may have kickstarted the super team era but I still dont care.


No I wouldn't - Lebron is in this position (fielding a young team and seeking a trade) because he cratered in Cleveland and failed to achieve a dynasty

Ultimately, the Cavs and Warriors were the only super-teams with 3 HOF's in recent years, while the Heat were the only super-team from 11-14'.. And lebron's teams always had record payroll.. so lebron should be knocked for not having dominant favorites or flirting with 70 wins like curry/kawhi did, and instead losing more with consistent underdog status.. but Lebron fans have simply weaponized his losing by seeking sympathy for his underdog status, instead of knocking him for not winning and achieving favorites like his peers





Golden State just throws things out of balance. 5 all stars is unprecedented. There may be teams in the 80's that compare but no team in the 90's besides MJ's own is in the same stratosphere as GS(i will laugh at people who suggest sonics or jazz). Hou last year is an easy finals team most years and they needed GS to sleepwalk through the series to have a chance.

Every team should be trying to stack the deck which is why very good teams like mil and tor are pushing so hard for ad and okc and hou are considering going after cousins next year just to compete with gs even though they dont need centers


5 all-stars isn't unprecedented.. the Bad Boys had 3x all-stars at every starting spot (edit: rodman was 2x all-star and 2x dpoy)

And the pistons were young when they lost to MJ... Isiah was 29 in 1991.. dumars and rodman were 27. They were all-stars and the team was favored to 3-peat heading into the 91' season (http://articles.latimes.com/1990-10-28/sports/sp-4734_1_detroit-pistons).

So they were a dynasty, but the bulls simply destroyed them the same way the 14' spurs beat the 2-time Heat: with superior brand of ball against an all-star team (pistons had 3x all-stars at every starting spot; bulls had 1x pippen)

Surely it's an easier path to land on the Finals favorite heading into the 2011 and 2015 seasons (year 1), than elevate the bulls from 8-seed doormats in 86' and win as underdogs heading into (http://articles.latimes.com/1990-10-28/sports/sp-4734_1_detroit-pistons) the 91' season.. (pre-season odds for 2015, here (https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2241463-nba-championship-odds-2014-15-every-teams-chances-of-winning-the-nba-title#slide0))
.

[bigkingsfan]

Imagine bragging about a team that was breaking down. When you were clear favorites. After getting your ass handed three times straight.

"The Bulls have little excuse not to beat the Pistons this year. Unlike in their previous three encounters, Chicago has many factors in its favor, like these:

*Home-court advantage. In Jordan's career, the Bulls are 4-0 in series in which they have had the home-court edge. The Pistons have lost five consecutive games in Chicago, including three during last year's playoffs. And the Bulls are undefeated (5-0) at home during the playoffs this year.

*Health. Chicago has not played since last Tuesday; the Pistons just finished off the Celtics on Friday night in Game 6, in overtime by 117-113. Except for the normal bumps and bruises of May, the Bulls are healthy. Jordan is nursing tendinitis in his left knee, but that didn't stop him from averaging 33.4 points in Chicago's second-round playoff series against the 76ers. Bulls forward Horace Grant is bothered by an eye irritation, but he also played well against Philadelphia.

(Meanwhile, the Pistons' training room should have a "no vacancy" sign on it. Although he played brilliantly Friday, All-Star point guard Isiah Thomas is hobbled by a sprained foot, a pulled hamstring and a surgically repaired left wrist that has not fully healed. Thomas did not start the last three games of the Celtics series, and he may not start Sunday. Both Joe Dumars, tendinitis in both knees, and Vinnie Johnson, bruised right shin are playing with nagging injuries.)"

[3ball]

Imagine bragging about a team that was breaking down. When you were clear favorites. After getting your ass handed three times straight.

"The Bulls have little excuse not to beat the Pistons this year. Unlike in their previous three encounters, Chicago has many factors in its favor, like these:

*Home-court advantage. In Jordan's career, the Bulls are 4-0 in series in which they have had the home-court edge. The Pistons have lost five consecutive games in Chicago, including three during last year's playoffs. And the Bulls are undefeated (5-0) at home during the playoffs this year.

*Health. Chicago has not played since last Tuesday; the Pistons just finished off the Celtics on Friday night in Game 6, in overtime by 117-113. Except for the normal bumps and bruises of May, the Bulls are healthy. Jordan is nursing tendinitis in his left knee, but that didn't stop him from averaging 33.4 points in Chicago's second-round playoff series against the 76ers. Bulls forward Horace Grant is bothered by an eye irritation, but he also played well against Philadelphia.

(Meanwhile, the Pistons' training room should have a "no vacancy" sign on it. Although he played brilliantly Friday, All-Star point guard Isiah Thomas is hobbled by a sprained foot, a pulled hamstring and a surgically repaired left wrist that has not fully healed. Thomas did not start the last three games of the Celtics series, and he may not start Sunday. Both Joe Dumars, tendinitis in both knees, and Vinnie Johnson, bruised right shin are playing with nagging injuries.)"
And?

Who cares that the Pistons were banged up - all teams are banged up at that point in the season.. the article mentions that both MJ and Isiah were banged up, but still played great

The Pistons were young - Isiah was 29 in 1991.. dumars and rodman were 27. They were all-stars and the team was favored to 3-peat heading into the 91' season (http://articles.latimes.com/1990-10-28/sports/sp-4734_1_detroit-pistons).

So they were a dynasty, but the bulls simply destroyed them the same way the 14' spurs beat the 2-time Heat: with superior brand of ball against an all-star team (pistons had 3x all-stars at every starting spot; bulls had 1x pippen)

Surely it's an easier path to land on the Finals favorite heading into the 2011 and 2015 seasons (year 1), than elevate the bulls from 8-seed doormats in 86' and win as underdogs heading into (http://articles.latimes.com/1990-10-28/sports/sp-4734_1_detroit-pistons) the 91' season.. (pre-season odds for 2015, here (https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2241463-nba-championship-odds-2014-15-every-teams-chances-of-winning-the-nba-title#slide0))
.

[bigkingsfan]

Pistons were a third seed. Weren't you crying about needing to be a 1/2 seed to be a great team. :rolleyes:

The reality is, the Bulls should have beat them the year before, up 2-1.

[3ball]

Pistons were a third seed. Weren't you crying about needing to be a 1/2 seed to be a great team. :rolleyes:

Plenty of teams win as the 3 seed

I was making a broader point that the following stats clearly indicate that MJ was the most unbeatable:



Losses as 1 or 2 seed


Bird: 5
Magic: 6
Wilt: 9
Russell: 2
Kareem: 9
Kobe: 4
Shaq: 5
Duncan: 6
Lebron: 6
the goat: 0


Again, that's a big enough sample to show that MJ was the most unbeatable

Btw, u think the 89' bulls should've beaten a dynasty, but these Lakers can't despite 3 teammates > 89' pippen???..

it's a testament to MJ's goatness that he took the champs to 6 games with a 6 seed, compared to lebron's 2 and 4 seeds getting record sweeps
.

[bigkingsfan]

LOL the most unbeatable would be Bill Russell and it's not even close.

[3ball]

LOL the most unbeatable would be Bill Russell and it's not even close.
But in the modern era, it's obviously jordan



Losses as 1 or 2 seed


Bird: 5
Magic: 6
Wilt: 9
Russell: 2
Kareem: 9
Kobe: 4
Shaq: 5
Duncan: 6
Lebron: 6
the goat: 0


Again, that's a big enough sample to show that MJ was the most unbeatable

[bigkingsfan]

https://media1.tenor.com/images/83116dac5575fef19f9a39e17984e7bd/tenor.gif

[Da_Realist]

Ultimately, the Cavs and Warriors were the only super-teams with 3 HOF's in recent years, while the Heat were the only super-team from 11-14'.. And lebron's teams always had record payroll.. so lebron should be knocked for not having dominant favorites or flirting with 70 wins like curry/kawhi did, and instead losing more with consistent underdog status.. but Lebron fans have simply weaponized his losing by seeking sympathy for his underdog status, instead of knocking him for not winning and achieving favorites like his peers

:applause:

[3ball]

https://media1.tenor.com/images/83116dac5575fef19f9a39e17984e7bd/tenor.gif
I retract the "modern era" comment:

MJ was infact more unbeatable because the bulls never lost in a full MJ season once they started winning, or upon becoming a 1 or 2 seed.. whereas Russell lost twice after becoming a good team/champion/1 or 2 seed..

[bigkingsfan]

Imagine trying to argue ordan is more unbeatable than the guy winning 11/13 in the years he was in the league :confusedshrug:

[sdot_thadon]

Imagine bragging about a team that was breaking down. When you were clear favorites. After getting your ass handed three times straight.

"The Bulls have little excuse not to beat the Pistons this year. Unlike in their previous three encounters, Chicago has many factors in its favor, like these:

*Home-court advantage. In Jordan's career, the Bulls are 4-0 in series in which they have had the home-court edge. The Pistons have lost five consecutive games in Chicago, including three during last year's playoffs. And the Bulls are undefeated (5-0) at home during the playoffs this year.

*Health. Chicago has not played since last Tuesday; the Pistons just finished off the Celtics on Friday night in Game 6, in overtime by 117-113. Except for the normal bumps and bruises of May, the Bulls are healthy. Jordan is nursing tendinitis in his left knee, but that didn't stop him from averaging 33.4 points in Chicago's second-round playoff series against the 76ers. Bulls forward Horace Grant is bothered by an eye irritation, but he also played well against Philadelphia.

(Meanwhile, the Pistons' training room should have a "no vacancy" sign on it. Although he played brilliantly Friday, All-Star point guard Isiah Thomas is hobbled by a sprained foot, a pulled hamstring and a surgically repaired left wrist that has not fully healed. Thomas did not start the last three games of the Celtics series, and he may not start Sunday. Both Joe Dumars, tendinitis in both knees, and Vinnie Johnson, bruised right shin are playing with nagging injuries.)"
with the dagger!

[Mr.GOAT2408]

Let's be real, LeBron would have shipped Pippen and Phil out had he played for the early 90s Bulls.

Now to be fair Pippen was basically LeBron-lite (but better defensively) and redundancy is not always good, but Phil's brand of team basketball goes against LeBron's obsession with stats. I just can't see him have the same success as the GOAT, I really can't.

[3ball]

with the dagger!
Did you see Ingram tonight?

You must get tired of MJ fam predicting correctly while you flounder around, changing your opinion from one second to the next, not knowing what's going on, or what's going to happen

:oldlol:

[bullettooth]

Let's be real, LeBron would have shipped Pippen and Phil out had he played for the early 90s Bulls.

Now to be fair Pippen was basically LeBron-lite (but better defensively) and redundancy is not always good, but Phil's brand of team basketball goes against LeBron's obsession with stats. I just can't see him have the same success as the GOAT, I really can't.

We've all been a witness to his failures.

3/9 is his legacy.

[3ball]

Imagine trying to argue ordan is more unbeatable than the guy winning 11/13 in the years he was in the league :confusedshrug:
He had a 1 or 2 seed nearly every year.. still lost with 2 such teams

Whereas once MJ had a good team, he was more unbeatable, infact never lost

[bigkingsfan]

Bill Russell 4th seed, NBA champion.
Ordan 3rd seed, losing to the same team for the third consecutive year. More L than Russell entire career to a single team. This is without getting into the 1-9 stuff and missing two playoffs to end his career.

[3ball]

Bill Russell 4th seed, NBA champion.
Ordan 3rd seed, losing to the same team for the third consecutive year. More L than Russel entire career to a single team.
4th seed... out of how many teams.. :yaohappy:

MJ never lost after getting a championship team, making him the most unbeatable

[bigkingsfan]

4th seed out of 8 team, that's the equivalent of a 7th seed today. :yaohappy:

Stop acting like 1995 never happened. :yaohappy:

[3ball]

4th seed out of 8 team, that's the equivalent of a 7th seed today. :yaohappy:

Stop acting like 1995 never happened. :yaohappy:
17 games at the end of the year? Not a full season

In full seasons, MJ was unbeatable once he got a championship squad, whereas Russell lost twice after becoming champion, proving he was more beatable

[bigkingsfan]

17 Starts, 13 Wins, 4 Losses. That's #1 seed material right there.

Ordan straight up duck twice after becoming champions. You lose by default in those scenarios anyways, so three L right there already.

[3ball]

17 Starts, 13 Wins, 4 Losses. That's #1 seed there material right there.

Ordan straight up duck twice after 3-peating. You lose by default in those scenarios anyways, so three L right there already.
Fixed, and only full seasons matter

The fact remains that MJ is the only top 10 player that never lost after getting a championship squad, making him the most unbeatable

[bigkingsfan]

1-9 vs nba champ as 7th seed

[3ball]

1-9 vs nba champ as 7th seed


record sweeps (0-8) vs NBA champ as the 2 and 4 seeds

:pimp:
.

[bigkingsfan]

You’re right Mj did get swept twice

[3ball]

You’re right Mj did get swept twice
With 8 seeds

Lebron with 2 and 4 seeds

And MJ played the champs tighter with his 8 seed than lebron did with his 4 seed (or 2 seed in 14')

MJ also registered the best losing stats ever: the NBA record 44 ppg, including 63 pts... His 1990 run was 37/7/7....

And of course his winning stats were goat too - NBA record 41 ppg in a single Finals, 36/7/8 in 91-93' Finals... and also 33.7 with 6.6 apg in 91-93' PO

[bigkingsfan]

Loses Russell argument, changes to Lebron, lawl.

[sdot_thadon]

Did you see Ingram tonight?

You must get tired of MJ fam predicting correctly while you flounder around, changing your opinion from one second to the next, not knowing what's going on, or what's going to happen

:oldlol:
Man you are quite delusional in case no one else has ever told you so.

You were right about "Ingraham" having 1 30 point game?:roll:

Pippen was an allstar in his 3rd season, allstar voting returns already came in, how's "Ingraham" doing? Reason i ask is because it's pretty clear allstar > non allstar. So go ahead and make a thread or 8 letting us know how "Ingraham's" allstar campaign is going. I really don't feel more needs to be said on him beyond that.

Lastly, where have i changed my opinion on anything? I'm still pretty confident you're the only idiot here who believes this pippen/ingram crap. You know it's bad when fellow Mj stans won't touch a pro Mj thread with a 10 ft pole.... Also I'm still in the belief that you post 3 to 4 times a day weak lazy arguments that often accomplish the opposite of what you intend. You still post false stats purposely, most of your topics get killed within a few responses so you move the goalposts, and yes you still got banned several times from other sites too. I haven't changed what i think of you one bit.:oldlol:

[Anti Vida]

The idea of Lebron playing in the triangle is hysterical. Dude wouldn't know what to do with himself, and his supposed "sky high basketball IQ" would be exposed.

He's not playing in anything that takes the ball out of his hands. Once he realizes he won't get those assist numbers, he'd try to get jackson fired

[3ball]

Bump

And yikes.. I had no idea he would crater the bulls' playoffs and franchise entirely.. :eek:

[nashwade]

MJ didn't have to hop around because he built a dynasty

That's the point - lebron needs ready-made teams with star vets - his style doesn't develop young players or teams.. like we've said all along.. :cheers: ..

Now it's coming to fruition - he's got a young team, and he's about to blow it up for the ready-made team that he's ALWAYS needed.. I guess he was willing to risk a young team this time because of outside business interests.. but apparently, despite have several young stud teammates, lebron's team sees urgency and now prefers the ready-made route

to be fair he pulled the Kyrie-led CAVs from nowhere to championship. Kyrie was a young nobody until bron came along.

He's just old and again, he didn't go LA to win. that part is painfully obvious.

[3ball]

to be fair he pulled the Kyrie-led CAVs from nowhere to championship. Kyrie was a young nobody until bron came along.

He's just old and again, he didn't go LA to win. that part is painfully obvious.
To be fair, he needed the league's 2nd team All-NBA PF as his third option to win in Cleveland - he always needed 2 star teammates to win.. just having pippen wouldn't seem like nearly enough for him

Look at him and Ingram.. he's much better than 21-year old pippen.. but instead of building a dynasty with him, lebron was ready to ship him and the team for 1 guy

[Mr.GOAT2408]

Just finished Jordan Rules by Sam Smith. I know it doesn't paint the nicest picture when it comes to MJ but it still showed a good leader who had a different philosophy in 1991 then he did in 1990 which the Pistons also noticed, at least according to that book. He was always aggressive on both ends but ultimately deferred more than usual while still being the alpha

Yeah, I don't see how LeBron would make that team better. Would have turned that team into a mess

[Smoke117]

It baffles me that you clowns can argue with 3ball over the same dumb shit year after year after year.

[3ball]

Bump

Looks like MJ fam was spot on

MJ started a dynasty with 21-year old pippen and his 7 ppg, while lebron has 3 guys better than 21-year old Pippen but misses playoffs

Lebron was inflated by the East and sucks compared to MJ, bird, Kobe, Duncan and others..

Carry on LeLosers

[tamaraw08]

Lebron and his business team would get the young, 1st time coach fired and ship out the 16-18 point 2nd options for an established stud that could carry the offensive load better

He needs ready-made teams with star vets - his style doesn't develop players or teams

What am I missing

Oh.. the triangle.. he'd never play in that either
.

Yup, it's a great thing for old coaches like Kevin Loughery AND Stan Albeck were NOT that young when they got fired coaching Jordan. :rolleyes: ...
oops, Well, the young Collins didn't get fired when he coached Jordan, right?:confusedshrug:
how about when he was THE EXECUTIVE at Washington, didn't he hired and fired Gar Heard, Leonard Hamilton and AGAIN Doug Collins?:(
btw, poor Mike Brown only lasted 1 year with Lebron?, wait, 2 years?, 3 years?

[3ball]

Yup, it's a great thing for old coaches like Kevin Loughery AND Stan Albeck were NOT that young when they got fired coaching Jordan. :rolleyes: ...
oops, Well, the young Collins didn't get fired when he coached Jordan, right?:confusedshrug:
how about when he was THE EXECUTIVE at Washington, didn't he hired and fired Gar Heard, Leonard Hamilton and AGAIN Doug Collins?


Luke is gone after 1 year despite Kuzma, Ingram, and Rondo being better than rookie pippen in 88' and 89'

Whereas Collins coached the bulls for 3 years and took them to the ECF with just rookie pippen - so he had a legit tenure that exceeded expectations (nearly made Finals with an underdog 6 seed), while luke was out after year 1 with no tenure or success

So keep dreaming - MJ would've built another dynasty with 3 guys > 89' Pippen.. :rolleyes:

[tamaraw08]

Luke is gone after 1 year despite Kuzma, Ingram, and Rondo being better than rookie pippen in 88' and 89'

Whereas Collins coached the bulls for 3 years and took them to the ECF with just rookie pippen - so he had a legit tenure that exceeded expectations (nearly made Finals with an underdog 6 seed), while luke was out after year 1 with no tenure or success

So keep dreaming - MJ would've built another dynasty with 3 guys > 89' Pippen.. :rolleyes:

Magic never liked Luke so he was already on thin ice as early as November after 6 games?.
Doug lasted 3 years? that long? Mike Brown lasted what 5 years with Lebron?
It's not like coaches didn't get fired when they coached MJ.
And these coaches were not young rookie guys. Kevin Loughery AND Stan Albeck. It was reported MJ resisted Phil too, he rolled his eyes, and he was the FOURTH COACH OF MJ, not first, not 2nd, not 3rd., FOURTH!!!

[hiphopanonymous]

Triangle involves passing the ball and moving off ball that would be hilarious to see a coach ask LeBron to do that :lol