Imagine being worth 19 wins instead of 2--yikes!

[And1AllDay]

The Lakers without LeGoat are now 6 and 11 which means they are on pace for 29 big wins. WITH LeGoat they were 20-14 good for a 48 win pace.


Lets break this down some ok we have
-Bron 48 wins
-no Bron 29 wins

Wait so that means Bron is worth 19 wins? Just imagine it...19 win value. Interesting...Not just 2 wins (57 to 55) but imagine 48 to 29 just wow.

Should we pull up the Cavs this year next? 50 wins to...?

[superduper]

Why does anyone expect the Lakers to be performing when they all know the guy sitting 2 seats away from them threw them all under the bus while he smiles to their face and waves his pompoms around like a complete clown while the entire world including the Lakers players know what the truth actually is?

How does anyone consider this toxic clown the GOAT?

[coin24]

No lonzo or kuzma (laker MVP)

Imagine being as unloved as OP:oldlol:

[Duncan21formvp]

Are you comparing two teams that are coming off winning championships with 2 stars in there primes? Compare the 2011 and 2012 Heat for instance with Wade in his prime and No Lebron. Oh I forget the 2011 team didn't win because Lebron disappeared and got shut down single handedly by Shawn Marion.

[And1AllDay]

Why does anyone expect the Lakers to be performing when they all know the guy sitting 2 seats away from them threw them all under the bus while he smiles to their face and waves his pompoms around like a complete clown while the entire world including the Lakers players know what the truth actually is?

How does anyone consider this toxic clown the GOAT?

Some guys are only worth 2 wins.

This is a +19 win kinda thing, sorry a +2 like yourself wouldnt understand.

[superduper]

Some guys are only worth 2 wins.

This is a +19 win kinda thing, sorry a +2 like yourself wouldnt understand.

Rookie Bird turned a 20~ win team into a 60~ win team single handedly in one year

[Duncan21formvp]

Some guys are only worth 2 wins.

This is a +19 win kinda thing, sorry a +2 like yourself wouldnt understand.
Bulls went from 62 wins and a title to 13 wins after 1998 when MJ left the only allstar on the team.

[TheCorporation]

Some guys are only worth 2 wins.

This is a +19 win kinda thing, sorry a +2 like yourself wouldnt understand.

:eek: Issa wrap. SuperDuper cooked again

[knicksman]

paul pierce = 66 wins + championship in his first year

lebron = 58 wins. :yaohappy:

I would be melting down hard too if my GOAT is not even better than paul pierce:lol

[r15mohd]

paul pierce = 66 wins + championship in his first year

lebron = 58 wins. :yaohappy:

I would be melting down hard too if my GOAT is not even better than paul pierce:lol


:biggums:

98-99 was PP's first year, Boston finished 12th in the East and the SAS won the title :confusedshrug: :confusedshrug:

[knicksman]

:biggums:

98-99 was PP's first year, Boston finished 12th in the East and the SAS won the title :confusedshrug: :confusedshrug:

when they first formed their superteams. That GOAT impact:lol

[TheCorporation]

when they first formed their superteams. That GOAT impact:lol

Kevin Garnett
Ray Allen
Rajon Rondo
Tony Allen
Good Bye

[r15mohd]

when they first formed their superteams. That GOAT impact:lol


interesting...that would mean your whole premise on hating Lebron in starting the 'superteam' era is nothing but a fallacy (like many of your counterparts here), and really just upset the Knicks didn't land him in 2010? again :confusedshrug: but :lol :lol

[TheCorporation]

interesting...that would mean your whole premise on hating Lebron in starting the 'superteam' era is nothing but a fallacy (like many of your counterparts here), and really just upset the Knicks didn't land him in 2010? again :confusedshrug: but :lol :lol

https://i.postimg.cc/N0NDb0yc/OoOoo.gif]

[knicksman]

Kevin Garnett
Ray Allen
Rajon Rondo
Tony Allen
Good Bye

58 wins. LOL Beat paul pierce first brah before dreaming of jordan.

[knicksman]

interesting...that would mean your whole premise on hating Lebron in starting the 'superteam' era is nothing but a fallacy (like many of your counterparts here), and really just upset the Knicks didn't land him in 2010? again :confusedshrug: but :lol :lol


LOL another dumb bron stan.

[And1AllDay]

interesting...that would mean your whole premise on hating Lebron in starting the 'superteam' era is nothing but a fallacy (like many of your counterparts here), and really just upset the Knicks didn't land him in 2010? again :confusedshrug: but :lol :lol

https://i.postimg.cc/N0NDb0yc/OoOoo.gif

:applause:

KnicksFool blasted

[knicksman]

Imagine thinking a guy whos not even better than paul pierce to be GOAT. You must be super dumb to believe that. :lol

Now I know why theyre melting down hard. Coz theyre just one of the sheeps that got fooled by stats.

[And1AllDay]

Imagine thinking a guy whos not even better than paul pierce to be GOAT. You must be super dumb to believe that. :lol

Now I know why theyre melting down hard. Coz theyre just one of the sheeps that got fooled by stats.

19 > 2

Oof

[knicksman]

19 > 2

Oof

paul pierce > bron

jordan + rodman btw from 40 to 72

lebron + bosh from 47 to 58. :yaohappy:

[And1AllDay]

Imagine thinking a guy whos not even better than paul pierce to be GOAT. You must be super dumb to believe that. :lol

Now I know why theyre melting down hard. Coz theyre just one of the sheeps that got fooled by stats.

Are
you
okay
?

[knicksman]

Are
you
okay
?

its ok brah. It sucks to be a sheep but thats life.

[And1AllDay]

its ok brah. It sucks to be a sheep but thats life.

Are you okay?

[Manny98]

paul pierce > bron

jordan + rodman btw from 40 to 72

lebron + bosh from 47 to 58. :yaohappy:
Bulls - Jordan from 57 to 55 (2 game dropoff)

Bulls - Horace Grant from 55 to 40 (15 game dropoff)

Horace Grant > Michael Jordan

[SouBeachTalents]

interesting...that would mean your whole premise on hating Lebron in starting the 'superteam' era is nothing but a fallacy (like many of your counterparts here), and really just upset the Knicks didn't land him in 2010? again :confusedshrug: but :lol :lol

Bulls - Jordan from 57 to 55 (2 game dropoff)

Bulls - Horace Grant from 55 to 40 (15 game dropoff)

Horace Grant > Michael Jordan
Damn, no mercy for knicksman in this thread

[knicksman]

Are you okay?


You wouldnt be wanting attention brah if youre ok

[3ball]

Are
you
okay
?
The 86' bulls were 9-9 when MJ played (41 win pace), and 21-43 when he didn't play (27-win pace)

So that's a 14-game impact, despite MJ only playing 25 mpg... MJ's per minute impact was obviously greater than bron's

Now i would never compare the 86' jordan to 93' jordan based on that, since 3-peat teams don't fall off like developing teams do

[Bronbron23]

The Lakers without LeGoat are now 6 and 11 which means they are on pace for 29 big wins. WITH LeGoat they were 20-14 good for a 48 win pace.


Lets break this down some ok we have
-Bron 48 wins
-no Bron 29 wins

Wait so that means Bron is worth 19 wins? Just imagine it...19 win value. Interesting...Not just 2 wins (57 to 55) but imagine 48 to 29 just wow.

Should we pull up the Cavs this year next? 50 wins to...?
This is a foolish point. It's obviously due to Jordan having a goat coach and mj putting he's ego aside and buying into a system. A great coach can around 50 wins with scrubs and Phil still had pip.
It's the same with pop. He almost got 50 wins with pretty much nobody last year. You give him a player of pips caliber and he can easily get 55 wins.
LeBron has never had great coaches. He's always pretty much the coach and the system. Do you really think if LeBron was on the spurs and he left pop wouldnt be able to still get 50 plus wins? Especially if he still had a player of pips caliber?

[3ball]

This is a foolish point. It's obviously due to Jordan having a goat coach... A great coach can around 50 wins with scrubs and Phil still had pip.
It's the same with pop. He almost got 50 wins with pretty much nobody last year. You give him a player of pips caliber and he can easily get 55 wins.
LeBron has never had great coaches. He's always pretty much the coach and the system. Do you really think if LeBron was on the spurs and he left pop wouldnt be able to still get 50 plus wins? Especially if he still had a player of pips caliber?


Phil only won 45 and 42 in 06/07, and that was WITH Kobe

So the bolded above is wrong and everyone simply overrated Phil

Otoh, goat teams by definition won't fall off as much as other teams - it's as simple as that.. that's why the bulls won 55 - they'd developed into a goat team with MJ, and therefore were still ok without him.. although 2nd round caliber is still far cry from 3-peat caliber

And don't me the great coach bullshit when lebron rejected every coach he's ever had - he's rejected Blatt and Luke's system while getting them fired, and tried to get spolestra fired.. do you understand that? He's literally rejected systems like the triangle his whole career

[Bronbron23]

Phil only won 45 and 42 in 06/07, and that was WITH Kobe

So the bolded above is wrong and everyone simply overrated Phil

Otoh, goat teams by definition won't fall off as much as other teams - it's as simple as that.. that's why the bulls won 55 - they'd developed into a goat team with MJ, and therefore were still ok without him.. although 2nd round caliber is still far cry from 3-peat caliber

And don't me the great coach bullshit when lebron rejected every coach he's ever had - he's rejected Blatt and Luke's system while getting them fired, and tried to get spolestra fired.. do you understand that? He's literally rejected systems like the triangle his whole career
Well I said around 50 wins and I'm not a huge fan of Phil but he obviously was somewhat responsible for the bulls and mj's success. Before him the bulls only had one 50 win season and had multiple 30 win seasons. after him they didn't have any seasons under 55. The first year he took over as head coach the bulls almost won 10 more games.

And I agree that it's brons fault he's never had great coaching. That was my point when I said mj put his ego aside and bought into Phil's system. If LeBron was willing to have say Greg pop he would absolutely have 5 or 6 rings. Especially if he had someone like kawhi Leonard which would be very similar to mj having pip.
Lebron thinks he doesn't need a great coach though and can do it on his own and that's what he only has 3 chips, amongst a few other reasons.

Oh and mj himself has said how important Phil was to his and the bulls success but I guess you know more then him too:facepalm

[Da_Realist]

The Lakers without LeGoat are now 6 and 11 which means they are on pace for 29 big wins. WITH LeGoat they were 20-14 good for a 48 win pace.


Lets break this down some ok we have
-Bron 48 wins
-no Bron 29 wins

Wait so that means Bron is worth 19 wins? Just imagine it...19 win value. Interesting...Not just 2 wins (57 to 55) but imagine 48 to 29 just wow.

Should we pull up the Cavs this year next? 50 wins to...?

All numbers, no context. Typical of LeBron fans.

Context #1: The Bulls added 7 new players for the 94 season (total team = 16) that collectively averaged 51 points, 14 asts and 24 rebounds a game. The entire team averaged 127 points, 32 asts and 60 rebounds a game.

The new guys averaged 40% of the scoring, 40% of the rebounds and 43% of the assists. Not to mention one of them, Toni Kukoc, won a few games at the buzzer, one of which helped extend the Knicks series to 7 games instead of a very likely sweep.

This was not a team that just dropped MJ and went about their business. They added valuable, productive pieces -- some of whom went on to anchor two 70 win teams and 3 championships.

Context #2: The Bulls were 3 time champs, had a great coaching staff, great chemistry and all the major players were 30 or less. They still had the know-how, experience and nucleus of a championship team -- they just needed their dynamic star back.

Very different than a defeated team on it's last legs scrambling to blow everything up because they sold their soul to cater everything (including personnel) to LeBron's unique, inflexible style.

Context #3: The Bulls admitted to coasting during the 93 season. This is common knowledge. They had been to the conference finals 4 straight years and the Finals 2 straight. Plus MJ and Scottie spent the summer before playing for the Olympics instead of resting and mentally preparing to take everyone's best shot every night as two time defending champions. They won 57 games on autopilot. Had they tried, they could have gone for 65+.

The real 93 Bulls showed up in the playoffs. 15-4 total record. Swept the 54 win Cavs. Beat the 60 win Knicks 4 straight games and in the process snapped their 27 game home winning streak (A lesser Knicks team was a fingernail block from winning the championship the next year). Won all 3 road games against the 62 win Suns in the Finals. It took a triple overtime win by the Suns in Game 3 to avoid being swept.

That team was much better than the 94 Bulls despite a 2 win regular season difference.

[3ball]

Well I said around 50 wins and I'm not a huge fan of Phil but he obviously was somewhat responsible for the bulls and mj's success. Before Phil the bulls only had one 50 win season and had multiple 30 win seasons. after him they didn't have any seasons under 55. The first year he took over as head coach the bulls almost won 10 more games.

And I agree that it's brons fault he's never had great coaching. That was my point when I said mj put his ego aside and bought into Phil's system. If LeBron was willing to have say Greg pop he would absolutely have 5 or 6 rings. Especially if he had someone like kawhi Leonard which would be very similar to mj having pip.
Lebron thinks he doesn't need a great coach though and can do it on his own and that's what he only has 3 chips, amongst a few other reasons.

Oh and mj himself has said how important Phil was to his and the bulls success but I guess you know more then him too:facepalm
The bulls almost made the Finals in 89'

Like, the bulls were begging to bust thru the door as soon as MJ got a minimum amount of help.. pippen's 14 ppg and 9/5 in ecf was aaaaaalmost enough in 89', but not enough.. his 16 ppg would've been enough in 90' if not for the migraine.. And the 90' loss was with phil btw - he lost the same way Collins did, except with a better version of pippen

So I don't credit Phil with winning the bulls first ring - that was going to happen regardless of coach - I credit MJ's record 32.0 PER more, and his 0.330 ws/48 (both records for a championship run).

Otoh, I credit Phil for commanding respect from the players, thus keeping the dynasty together for longer than it would've been otherwise.. he was a people manager, nothing more, just like today's coaches.. he wasn't an X's and O's guy

[Bronbron23]

The bulls almost made the Finals in 89'

Like, the bulls were begging to bust thru the door as soon as MJ got a minimum amount of help.. pippen's 14 ppg and 9/5 in ecf was aaaaaalmost enough in 89', but not enough.. his 16 ppg would've been enough in 90' if not for the migraine.. And the 90' loss was with phil btw - he lost the same way Collins did, except with a better version of pippen

So I don't credit Phil with winning the bulls first ring - that was going to happen regardless of coach - I credit MJ's record 32.0 PER more, and his 0.330 ws/48 (both records for a championship run).

Otoh, I credit Phil for commanding respect from the players, thus keeping the dynasty together for longer than it would've been otherwise.. he was a people manager, nothing more, just like today's coaches.. he wasn't an X's and O's guy
Pips maturation definitely was significant as was mj's growth as a player. I wouldn't argue any of that. I know mj is mostly responsible for the bulls success and I'd put pip as second. I just think Phil had something to do with it also. Sometimes just being a people's manager as you would say is just as important as anything else. I disagree that that's all he did though and that he wasn't an X's and O's guy. He had to get them to buy into the triangle offence which is one of the most famous X's and O's offence and wasn't easy. Especially for mj.

Coaching mater's even for guys as great as mj and LeBron. If you think LeBron wouldn't have at least 5 rings right now if he would of had Greg pop as his coach for 10 years your crazy man.

[3ball]

Pips maturation definitely was significant as was mj's growth as a player.


Again, the bulls were nearly making the Finals in 89'

They were just waiting on Pip...

91' Pip wins the ring easily in 1989, with MJ getting his usual gaudy stats.

they weren't waiting on MJ - only pip






I wouldn't argue any of that. I know mj is mostly responsible for the bulls success and I'd put pip as second. I just think Phil had something to do with it also. Sometimes just being a people's manager as you would say is just as important as anything else. I disagree that that's all he did though and that he wasn't an X's and O's guy. He had to get them to buy into the triangle offence which is one of the most famous X's and O's offence


The triangle wasn't Phil's offense.. it was Tex Winters'

like you said - Phil getting MJ to buy in was his true value (people manager)... Not his X's and O's





And it wasn't easy. Especially for mj.


jordan's on-ball and off-ball skillset fit into a system a lot better than lebron's on-ball focus does

Jordan's off-ball play is why the offense wasn't thrown in the trash initially... ball domination kills ball movement, and MJ's game wasn't ball-dominant, so it worked out

MJ didn't have to accept the triangle, and he probably wouldn't have if his skillset was more restricted to ball-domination





If you think LeBron wouldn't have at least 5 rings right now if he would of had Greg pop as his coach

.

You don't seem to understand that lebron's game doesn't fit into an equal-opportunity, ball movement system like the triangle or spurs' offense - there's no room in those offenses for ball-domination, let alone a forward playing PG.. You either run lebron-ball, or you run a ball-movement system - you can't run both

When I say that lebron rejected systems from Blatt, Luke and Spo - THAT'S TRUE BRO - I'm not making it up.. so for you to say "if only he had a coach like pop".. is bullshit.. he would've told pop to shove his ball movement up his ass and pop would've had to run lebron-ball like every other coach he's ever had

[Bronbron23]

Again, the bulls were nearly making the Finals in 89'

They were just waiting on Pip...

91' Pip wins the ring easily in 1989, with MJ getting his usual gaudy stats.

they weren't waiting on MJ - only pip




The triangle wasn't Phil's offense.. it was Tex Winters'

like you said - Phil getting MJ to buy in was his true value (people manager)... Not his X's and O's



jordan's on-ball and off-ball skillset fit into a system a lot better than lebron's on-ball focus does

Jordan's off-ball play is why the offense wasn't thrown in the trash initially... ball domination kills ball movement, and MJ's game wasn't ball-dominant, so it worked out

MJ didn't have to accept the triangle, and he probably wouldn't have if his skillset was more restricted to ball-domination




You don't seem to understand that lebron's game doesn't fit into an equal-opportunity, ball movement system like the triangle or spurs' offense - there's no room in those offenses for ball-domination, let alone a forward playing PG.. You either run lebron-ball, or you run a ball-movement system - you can't run both

When I say that lebron rejected systems from Blatt, Luke and Spo - THAT'S TRUE BRO - I'm not making it up.. so for you to say "if only he had a coach like pop".. is bullshit.. he would've told pop to shove his ball movement up his ass and pop would've had to run lebron-ball like every other coach he's ever had
What's it matter that the triangle is text winter's? Every great x and o coach in the game uses plays from past coaches so that's a mute point.

And yes I know your not making it up that Bron has ignored his coaches with the exception of eric that is. that was my original point on why mj was more successful. It's because he willing to put his ego aside and bought into Phil's philosophy. It's obviously hypothetical but if Bron was willing to listen to someone else and had someone like pop he would have more chips. LeBron isn't willing to do that and thus has never had a great coach and therefore only has 3 chips.

And LeBron did buy into a system with the Eric and the heat. There was plenty of ball movement on that team so your wrong there. It was the only time LeBron did though and it also happens to be his most successful run with any team.

One of the many things that made mj better than Bron was the fact that he was smart enough and willing to listen to another smart man.

[kennethgriffen]

lebron is worth negative wins



if he never joined and randle stayed the lakers win 46-47 or so


right now they're on pace for 42-43 wins and i think even if lebron comes back that won't change



sure they looked better at the start of the season but it was against dog shit teams for the most part


tons of fluky endings

[TheCorporation]

lebron is worth negative wins



if he never joined and randle stayed the lakers win 46-47 or so


right now they're on pace for 42-43 wins and i think even if lebron comes back that won't change



sure they looked better at the start of the season but it was against dog shit teams for the most part


tons of fluky endings

First of all, no nore predictions from you. Ever.

Read more, post less. Learn.

[TheCorporation]

The 86' bulls were 9-9 when MJ played (41 win pace), and 21-43 when he didn't play (27-win pace)

So that's a 14-game impact, despite MJ only playing 25 mpg... MJ's per minute impact was obviously greater than bron's

Now i would never compare the 86' jordan to 93' jordan based on that, since 3-peat teams don't fall off like developing teams do

Come on man...You're better than this

94 Bulls 57
95 Bulls 55

MJ is a 2 win impact type of guy
NOT 19, like the real GOAT