Video: Is James Harden having the best scoring season ever?

[Marchesk]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RhKgmJC6myM

Pretty good video going into the analytics and style of play of best scoring seasons with some advanced stats this guy has come up with (Harden's estimated scoring value is #7 all-time this season).

Conclusion: Harden has the best points per 75 possessions in history so far this season, but he needs to be able to do it in the playoffs at the same level he's been on last 20 plus games for it to be considered best ever.

https://i.postimg.cc/VNjzpPP9/all-time-scoring-chart.png

[kennethgriffen]

its just his usage/volume thats the greatest

he uses a per 75 team possessions metric

so he actually tries convincing people that scoring 36ppg in 37mpg is better than scoring 50ppg+ and playing 48.5mpg ( every single second of regulation and overtime )


yeah... lets see harden play every single minute and score at the rate he does

:lol


plus wilt had to be his teams top defensive player and rebounder while putting up 50 and playing every minute.


no comparison

[Odinn]

Short answer; No.
Long answer; Nope.

[Mr.GOAT2408]

Not even the best scoring season this decade, let alone all-time

[Marchesk]

Not even the best scoring season this decade

That depends on whether you value Curry's efficiency more than Harden's volume, which was brought up as a philosophical difference toward the end of the video.

You could argue that Curry's efficiency is more important to team success, but the topic is about best scoring season and not team success. Also, it matters who your teammates are, and what kind of offensive load you are expected to carry.

[Gileraracer]

He's shooting .438 / .367

so no.

[Odinn]

Noone will respect enough to put Harden in there.

He expects to get away with this, because he usually does.
https://streamable.com/h0soo

He's always like this.
https://streamable.com/m2o0m

He got a call for this.
https://streamable.com/vh1v1

This is an offensive foul, he steps on the defender's foot. Gets a triple to the line.
https://streamable.com/gf72b


And those are just past week. Noone actually watching will credit enough to claim he's up there. He's not better than Curry, Kobe and Mike. And even arguably than Durant. KD averaged 35 over 42 games in 2013-14 (not far off from Harden's 36 over 47 games) and he was more efficient.

[Marchesk]

He's always like this.
https://streamable.com/m2o0m[/url]


I don't understand how the refs don't call an offensive foul on that one. Sometimes I don't get NBA refs.

I wish the NBA would let defenders defend a little bit more and not just gift the offensive players everything. We have enough offense nowadays.

[Phoenix]

That depends on whether you value Curry's efficiency more than Harden's volume, which was brought up as a philosophical difference toward the end of the video.

You could argue that Curry's efficiency is more important to team success, but the topic is about best scoring season and not team success. Also, it matters who your teammates are, and what kind of offensive load you are expected to carry.

I not only value his efficiency, but I also value the demoralizing effect he had on opponents which isn't a stat to measure. You merely watched and saw what was happening on court. Curry was blowing out teams by the third quarter that year, so very rarely was he in a situation like Harden where he needs to actually score that much. And he commanded such gravity and spaced out the court like no-one before him. Harden is literally on an island, scoring unassisted largely which is the complete antithesis of team basketball. Curry was able to score in ways that simply killed the spirit of teams, you just couldn't do anything with a guy with those handles who can pop with 30 foot range AND efficient volume, who can come off screens and get off a shot in a split second, and whose presence made the lives of Klay and Dray even easier.

[Bronbron23]

Hell no. His usage, Dantoni's system and defensive rules inflate his stats.

You should also change the title to best regularly season. Season means playoffs also and we all know he's gonna decline in the playoffs.

[Keno]

He's shooting .438 / .367

so no.

Kobe stan has the audacity to talk about shooting percentages. :oldlol:

[Marchesk]

You should also change the title to best regularly season. Season means playoffs also and we all know he's gonna decline in the playoffs.

It's the title of the video I linked to, and the playoffs was brought up in the video. But yeah, Harden would have to keep it up in the playoffs.

[Phoenix]

We forget quickly. Steph was putting up 33 on 70% TS to start the year, above his 2016 level. His numbers settled back down to earth( by those standards) once he got injured which is always the big issue with him, being able to sustain that kind of burden without breaking down. But I'd take 33ppg on 70%TS, with Kevin Durant putting up 28ppg on his own, any day of the week.

[Phoenix]

It's the title of the video I linked to, and the playoffs was brought up in the video. But yeah, Harden would have to keep it up in the playoffs.

I don't see how he does. The refs pocket the whistle far more in the playoffs which we've seen impacts his game annually at that time. Also, he's not getting easy points. Alot of isoing, shooting 13 3's so that's alot of usage on the legs, as is driving to the rim. It's easy 3's, or layups, no 'easy' points working in the midrange or in the post. MJ could get into the post and basically 'rest' on offense, so would Kobe when he developed that part of his game, so can Durant when he gets down there or works in the midrange. Ditto for someone like Kawhi... Harden's offense is designed to burn very bright and burn out in the end. If he plays anything like this in the playoffs, it will be the first time he's been able to match his regular season performance.

[Marchesk]

We forget quickly. But I'd take 33ppg on 70%TS, with Kevin Durant putting up 28ppg on his own, any day of the week.

Sure, but the defense can't exactly focus all it's efforts on Curry when you have a Durant in addition to the second best three point shooter of all-time, who's known for going off and getting 30 in a quarter or 60 in a game every so often.

Harden gets the full attention of a defense, even though he benefits from the whistles.

[Bronbron23]

We forget quickly. Steph was putting up 33 on 70% TS to start the year, above his 2016 level. His numbers settled back down to earth( by those standards) once he got injured which is always the big issue with him, being able to sustain that kind of burden without breaking down. But I'd take 33ppg on 70%TS, with Kevin Durant putting up 28ppg on his own, any day of the week.
It's a close call between those 2. Steph is a better shooter but harden is a better finisher and iso scorer. Neither is amazing come playoff time. I'd probably take Steph also but it's close

[Manny98]

Taking into account team success,playoffs,defensive rules Harden isn't even top 10 yet

12 LeBron
91 Jordan
00 Shaq

Off the top of my head are easily better

[Phoenix]

Sure, but the defense can't exactly focus all it's efforts on Curry when you have a Durant in addition to the second best three point shooter of all-time, who's known for going off and getting 30 in a quarter or 60 in a game every so often.

Harden gets the full attention of a defense, even though he benefits from the whistles.

Perhaps but Golden State doesn't really skip much of a beat when Durant's out. Bear in mind that the 2016 season he didn't have Durant there either. He did have Klay but I'd suggest Klay probably benefits from Steph more than the reverse. Klay's good for one 'nuclear' night a year but it's not like he routinely puts up those performances. I'm really measuring this more but how they score than just their numbers. Steph is out there dancing on you and shooting impossibly long range 3's, that's just unreal ability. You're literally afraid the moment he hits half court because all he needs is a split seconds daylight to get the shot off. Harden doesn't inspire' that' kind of fear or warp the defense to that extent. I just don't have much respect for the nature of Harden's offensive game, as effective as it is( in the regular season). Dribbling the air out the ball, initiating content to draw fouls and slowing down the pace of the game with numerous trips to the line, spamming 3s regardless of whether he's on or off that night from distance. He's mastered the rules and bends them to his will, he's not wrong, but it's not pretty to watch in many cases.

[Elosha]

Noone will respect enough to put Harden in there.

He expects to get away with this, because he usually does.
https://streamable.com/h0soo

He's always like this.
https://streamable.com/m2o0m

He got a call for this.
https://streamable.com/vh1v1

This is an offensive foul, he steps on the defender's foot. Gets a triple to the line.
https://streamable.com/gf72b

And those are just past week. Noone actually watching will credit enough to claim he's up there. He's not better than Curry, Kobe and Mike. And even arguably than Durant. KD averaged 35 over 42 games in 2013-14 (not far off from Harden's 36 over 47 games) and he was more efficient.


Those are GREAT examples. And things like this happen routinely for Harden. I'm not sure I've ever seen a player get the benefit of the doubt as often as him. And I'm really not sure why refs let him get away with it. If he were called even close to evenhandedly, it would have a huge impact on his scoring numbers, not to mention he'd probably be in danger of fouling out in quite a few games.

Harden isn't even that fun to watch when compared to other great scorers today or from past eras. So why does the league bend over backwards to protect him? :confusedshrug: At least, they don't seem to favor him as much in the playoffs, which is why his post-season scoring usually drops considerably.

[Phoenix]

Those are GREAT examples. And things like this happen routinely for Harden. I'm not sure I've ever seen a player get the benefit of the doubt as often as him. And I'm really not sure why refs let him get away with it. If he were called even close to evenhandedly, it would have a huge impact on his scoring numbers, not to mention he'd probably be in danger of fouling out in quite a few games.

Harden isn't even that fun to watch when compared to other great scorers today or from past eras. So why does the league bend over backwards to protect him? :confusedshrug: At least, they don't seem to favor him as much in the playoffs, which is why his post-season scoring usually drops considerably.

Such bullshit on every single one of those calls.

[pauk]

With 0 FG attempts he is averaging 12 ppg on simply freethrows... and can average 20+ ppg on just freethrows if he wanted....

He is making only 10 FG attempts per game, which is very good... but is something say Lebron for example does every season (with far less shots even FAAAAAR less freethrows).... So he is really not having the best scoring season... i mean the guy is not hot, on fire, draining shots, making BUCKETS, historically... He is more like having one of the best FT exploiting seasons ever...

Here is a grain of salt

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-oET52dax8kk/ToE69RDEO6I/AAAAAAAAADk/tjiFta5LW0U/s1600/grain-of-salt.jpg

[Elosha]

With 0 FG attempts he is averaging 12 ppg on simply freethrows... and can average 20+ ppg on just freethrows if he wanted....

He is making only 10 FG attempts per game, which is very good... but is something say Lebron for example does every season (with far less shots even FAAAAAR less freethrows).... So he is really not having the best scoring season... i mean the guy is not hot, on fire, draining shots, making BUCKETS, historically... He is more like having one of the best FT exploiting seasons ever...

Here is a grain of salt

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-oET52dax8kk/ToE69RDEO6I/AAAAAAAAADk/tjiFta5LW0U/s1600/grain-of-salt.jpg

^ Clever. :applause:

[Elosha]

Such bullshit on every single one of those calls.

Absolutely. Which is why it's so infuriating, it's not even a "close call."

[Vragrant]

Harden shattered my expectations. He's the only player that makes scoring 40 look unwatchable.

[FireDavidKahn]

Because is an amazing offensive player?

People hate him because he does get away with questionable calls but they can't even acknowledge just how good he is anyway.

[OldSchoolBBall]

Scoring wise I'd take at least the following seasons above his off the top of my head:

Kareem '72
Jordan '87-'91
Kobe '06
Durant '14
Curry '16

Harden is playing in a JOKE of a league defensively (even more of a joke than the last few years). Wide open lanes, can't touch him, fishes for fouls and routinely gets 15-25 FT's for his efforts. It's a joke. Anyone who thinks he'd be putting up the same exact numbers volume and efficiency-wise in 2008, 1998, or 1988 is kidding themselves.

[4pointshot]

Thanks to the OP for the link to the video. A couple of comments.

While the emphasis is on Harden's last twenty games, that stretch can really be broken down into two phases. In the first 12 games of that stretch, Harden not only began increasing his 3PA, from 11 per game (which itself was an increase from his career high last year of 10 per game) to 16 per game, but hit them at an elite rate of 41.75%. The result was an average of 6.75 3PM per game, something far above anything even Curry has done in a twelve game stretch.

In his last 9 games, though, while Harden has continued his attempt rate of about 16 3PA per game, his hit rate has plummeted to below 30%, well below league average. No doubt a lot of that is just random, but if he can't increase his rate to something approaching his career and overall rate this season of around 37%, he's going to be a lot less effective.

The other point is related to how much Curry benefits from KD. Since KD joined the team, the Warriors are 22-4 in games in which KD was injured, and all the other starters played. In fact, they haven't lost a game in which only Durant was out since they rebounded about two weeks after his injury in 2017 and won 13 in a row. Conversely, they are 17-10 in games in which Curry did not play, but the other three AS did. Not a huge sample size, but it suggests Curry is more important to the team than Durant. Not surprising; after all, they did win 73 without him.

[tanibanana]

Best scoring season??? Nope.
Top-3 has solid argument though.