Belichick > Brady

[StrongLurk]

And you won't change my mind on that.

[Marchesk]

Did Bill play QB?

We do know one thing for sure. Brady >>> Lebron

[SouBeachTalents]

What was Belichicks career record before Brady?

[StrongLurk]

Did Bill play QB?

We do know one thing for sure. Brady >>> Lebron

Bill is more of a GOAT then Brady.

[AirBonner]

All Belichick has to worry about is the Defense as far as coaching. Brady is basically a coach on the field :rockon:

[imdaman99]

Agreed. But to be honest, they prob both needed each other to get their careers started. The difference is that Brady was a 6th round pick, his career could have been over just like that. BB would have got more chances, he was a great DC with the Giants.

[Smoke117]

What does this have to do with basketball. Mods. :facepalm

[Ben Simmons 25]

I think BB and Brady are both vital to New England's success...

But you gotta say... Pats win this game today with or without Brady.

I can't wait for Brady to retire just so we can see if the Pats keep winning or fall off a cliff. Granted, there are more variables than that and who knows what challenges BB faces in the future, but still, I can't wait...

[knicksman]

sign of dumbassness - close mindedness.

[kennethgriffen]

"its about the players. they're the ones that have to go out and do these crazy things we ask them to do. its way harder to actually do it then talk about doing it" - a basic summary of BB's comments at the podium tonight


OP = wrecked

[DidUSaySomethin]

Did Bill play QB?

We do know one thing for sure. Brady >>> Lebron

did you forget the pats backup qb took them to the SB in 02? brady is the least impactful superstar of all time.

they beat a playoff team with a third string QB a couple years ago

[DidUSaySomethin]

I think BB and Brady are both vital to New England's success...

But you gotta say... Pats win this game today with or without Brady.

I can't wait for Brady to retire just so we can see if the Pats keep winning or fall off a cliff. Granted, there are more variables than that and who knows what challenges BB faces in the future, but still, I can't wait...

they already won 11 games w/ cassell

[Duncan21formvp]

What was Belichicks career record before Brady?
This. Same as Phil Jackson before MJ in the NBA or Pops before Duncan. Someone not proven.

[FKAri]

This. Same as Phil Jackson before MJ in the NBA or Pops before Duncan. Someone not proven.
Except Pop's been over performing even after Duncan retired. Spurs have had no business being as good as they've been the last few years. Stop being a pathetic stan and acknowledge the team and whole org that's needed to win at the highest level.

[k0kakw0rld]

Brady is great and all that but he's been more of a system player compared to Peyton Manning. Who was literally the offense wherever he went. Except when he played and won for the Broncos.

[kennethgriffen]

Brady is great and all that but he's been more of a system player compared to Peyton Manning. Who was literally the offense wherever he went. Except when he played and won for the Broncos.


lol lets just base tom bradys entire career off of one tough defensive grind it out superbowl game


like he doesn't have these nfl records

Regular season wins by a starting quarterback (207)
Most passing yards, regular season and playoffs (81,693)
Most passing touchdowns, postseason included: 590
Most touchdowns thrown to different receivers (71)
Division titles (16)
Playoff games started (40)
Playoff wins (30)
Playoff touchdown passes (73)
Playoff passing yards (11,179)
Super Bowl appearances (9)
Super Bowl wins (6)
Super Bowl MVPs (4)
Super Bowl touchdown passes (18)
Super Bowl passing yards (2,838)


and he'll probly end up with

- most passing td's
- most pro bowls
- most game winning drives
- most 4th quarter comebacks



like he'd have all of these if all he did was do hand offs for 2 decades and get carried by his defense

[stalkerforlife]

Belichick is 54-63 without Brady and the only time he missed the playoffs in the last 15 seasons is the year Brady was injured.

Nice try, cupcake.

[hold this L]

Except Pop's been over performing even after Duncan retired. Spurs have had no business being as good as they've been the last few years. Stop being a pathetic stan and acknowledge the team and whole org that's needed to win at the highest level.
Overperforming = irrelevant NBA team from a 5x champion under Timmy.

[4pointshot]

When Brady missed one year with an injury, the Pats were 11-5, though they did miss the playoffs on a tie-breaker. When Brady sat out his four game suspension, NE was 3-1, winning one game with the 3d string QB. Small sample size, but I've always thought Beli was more important than Brady. Does anyone seriously think that Aaron Rodgers wouldn't have won at least as many SB with that team? Probably several other QBs, too, thought that isn't as obvious.

[DidUSaySomethin]

When Brady missed one year with an injury, the Pats were 11-5, though they did miss the playoffs on a tie-breaker. When Brady sat out his four game suspension, NE was 3-1, winning one game with the 3d string QB. Small sample size, but I've always thought Beli was more important than Brady. Does anyone seriously think that Aaron Rodgers wouldn't have won at least as many SB with that team? Probably several other QBs, too, thought that isn't as obvious.

rodgers and brees have a higher passer rating and better TD/INT ratio in the playoffs than brady. they easily win more SBs, especially rodgers

[k0kakw0rld]

lol lets just base tom bradys entire career off of one tough defensive grind it out superbowl game


like he doesn't have these nfl records

Regular season wins by a starting quarterback (207)
Most passing yards, regular season and playoffs (81,693)
Most passing touchdowns, postseason included: 590
Most touchdowns thrown to different receivers (71)
Division titles (16)
Playoff games started (40)
Playoff wins (30)
Playoff touchdown passes (73)
Playoff passing yards (11,179)
Super Bowl appearances (9)
Super Bowl wins (6)
Super Bowl MVPs (4)
Super Bowl touchdown passes (18)
Super Bowl passing yards (2,838)


and he'll probly end up with

- most passing td's
- most pro bowls
- most game winning drives
- most 4th quarter comebacks



like he'd have all of these if all he did was do hand offs for 2 decades and get carried by his defense
It's funny because when it comes to Kobe vs LeBron it's a crime to use accolades and stats to compare them.

We know damn well Kobe doesn't stand a chance against LeBron. So which way you want it, coward?

Broncos went from an average to instant contenders when they signed Manning. How are the colts doing with Luck so far? :confusedshrug:

[kennethgriffen]

It's funny because when it comes to Kobe vs LeBron it's a crime to use accolades and stats to compare them.

We know damn well Kobe doesn't stand a chance against LeBron. So which way you want it, coward?

Broncos went from an average to instant contenders when they signed Manning. How are the colts doing with Luck so far? :confusedshrug:


brady isn't a stat padding ring chaser

:lol

in fact he's quite the opposite. he's loyal and sacrifices stats for the betterment of the team

[ImKobe]

Brady is great and all that but he's been more of a system player compared to Peyton Manning. Who was literally the offense wherever he went. Except when he played and won for the Broncos.

Oh he was literally the offense, except for the two SBs he won :roll:

[ImKobe]

It's funny because when it comes to Kobe vs LeBron it's a crime to use accolades and stats to compare them.

We know damn well Kobe doesn't stand a chance against LeBron. So which way you want it, coward?

Broncos went from an average to instant contenders when they signed Manning. How are the colts doing with Luck so far? :confusedshrug:

Comparing NFL to basketball :roll:

Brady's cemented as GOAT due to winning most SBs, Lebron has 3 titles to Kobe's 5, sorry.

So you discredit Kobe's rings due to stats, but in this same thread say that Peyton is better than Brady due to his offense, yet the only times he won he was carried by the defense :facepalm

[jayfan]

Brady is great and all that but he's been more of a system player compared to Peyton Manning. Who was literally the offense wherever he went. Except when he played and won for the Broncos.

Did you just say it's the system more than Brady?

That juggernaut Patriots offensive system? . The one guys like Charlie Weiss, Josh McDaniels and Bill O'Brien ravaged defenses with when hired by other teams?

:facepalm

[ShawkFactory]

brady isn't a stat padding ring chaser

:lol

in fact he's quite the opposite. he's loyal and sacrifices stats for the betterment of the team
Are you implying that Peyton Manning is either of these things?

[warriorfan]

"its about the players. they're the ones that have to go out and do these crazy things we ask them to do. its way harder to actually do it then talk about doing it" - a basic summary of BB's comments at the podium tonight


OP = wrecked

BB is a pretty smart dude. He says the right things. He can

[imdaman99]

"its about the players. they're the ones that have to go out and do these crazy things we ask them to do. its way harder to actually do it then talk about doing it" - a basic summary of BB's comments at the podium tonight

OP = wrecked
Sign of the goat coach. Gives all the credit to the players. What the hell do you want him to say? Not everyone lives on a message board, some people actually deal with people face to face in their everyday lives :facepalm

[Bronbron23]

They need each other equally. Anyone on here saying Brady doesn't need bill doesn't know football. The man is a genius. Brady would maybe have 1 or 2 chips without him.

On the flip side anyone saying bill doesn't need Brady also doesn't know football. Brady isn't the most talented quarter back but he's one of the smartest players ever. He sees the field and reacts to the defence faster than any quarter back ever.

[FireDavidKahn]

They need each other equally. Anyone on here saying Brady doesn't need bill doesn't know football. The man is a genius. Brady would maybe have 1 or 2 chips without him.

On the flip side anyone saying bill doesn't need Brady also doesn't know football. Brady isn't the most talented quarter back but he's one of the smartest players ever. He sees the field and reacts to the defence faster than any quarter back ever.
This is something that hardly anyone will ever acknowledge. Both Brady and Bill are the GOAT and the two combined was a match made in heaven.

Brady has the most regular season wins in history by a huge margin with 207 with Favre having only 160. If you want to play semantics he is second in regular season win % at 77.5% trailing Otto who was at 78.8% but the total amount of games is 207 wins and 60 losses for Tom and 57 wins and 13 losses for Otto. SO a HUGE difference in sample size.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_National_Football_League_career_quarterbac k_wins_leaders

Brady also has the most postseason wins (almost double Montana who is second), most Superbowls. Plus, again, depending on how semantic you want to get with players that appeared in only a few post season games he has the highest postseason winning % as well. But if you want to include Bart Starr and his 10 games then fine.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_National_Football_League_quarterback_playo ff_records

It's absolutely absurd that people call Tom a system QB or can't even acknowledge that he is among the GOATs (despite him being the GOAT).

Tom, who did for 18 years as a starter, had a total record of 237 - 70 = 77.2%. To put that in perspective that would be like an NBA team winning 63 games (including play offs) every single year for 18 years straight.

Not only that but he has the stats to back it up.

[SouBeachTalents]

They need each other equally. Anyone on here saying Brady doesn't need bill doesn't know football. The man is a genius. Brady would maybe have 1 or 2 chips without him.

On the flip side anyone saying bill doesn't need Brady also doesn't know football. Brady isn't the most talented quarter back but he's one of the smartest players ever. He sees the field and reacts to the defence faster than any quarter back ever.
What was Belichicks record as head coach before Brady?

[Bronbron23]

What was Belichicks record as head coach before Brady?
What? You obviously know very little about football and heard about bills record before Brady. Did you know bill won 2 chips as the Giants defensive coordinator? Did you know he took the shitty ass browns to 11-5 and a playoff win. That was the last time the browns won a playoff game btw.

Oh and since he's had brady he's gone 13-6 in games Brady missed. Most of those games were during the 2008 season when Brady was out. Bill went 11-5 with a scrub as a quarter back.

Tom is the goat there's no dought but give bill belichick rodgers, big Ben or brees and he still wins 5 or 6 chips.

If Brady and Rogers switched teams Rogers would have 6 chips right now and Brady would maybe have 1

[SouBeachTalents]

What? You obviously know very little about football and heard about bills record before Brady. Did you know bill won 2 chips as the Giants defensive coordinator? Did you know he took the shitty ass browns to 11-5 and a playoff win. That was the last time the browns won a playoff game btw.

Oh and since he's had brady he's gone 13-6 in games Brady missed. Most of those games were during the 2008 season when Brady was out. Bill went 11-5 with a scrub as a quarter back.

Tom is the goat there's no dought but give bill belichick rodgers, big Ben or brees and he still wins 5 or 6 chips.

If Brady and Rogers switched teams Rogers would have 6 chips right now and Brady would maybe have 1
You're referring to Belichicks wonderful Browns tenure where he went 36-44, and had 4 losing seasons in 5 years :lol You want to criticize his team, that's fair, but that's half a decade of evidence, and for the supposed GOAT coach that's an extremely unimpressive tenure

The part that gets to me most is, he goes to New England, they start off 5-11 his first year, then begin the '01 season 0-2 before Bledsoe goes down with injury. So that's 6 seasons, two different teams, and a 41-57 record pre Brady. Then after starting his Pats tenure 5-13, the INSTANT Brady becomes the starter, his teams performance does a complete 180 and suddenly starts ripping off wins & Super Bowl titles; pretty strange coincidence :lol

'08 is always a fall back point, and I'm not knocking it, it was an impressive job for them to withstand the loss of Brady and still win 11 games with a QB as mediocre as Cassel. However, let's be fair, he was inheriting a team that just completed the first 16-0 season in history AND broke the scoring record, while having Moss & Welker as receivers. The dirty secret of '08 is that the Pats had the 4th softest schedule of the season, and went 1-4 against playoff teams

It's no knock on Belichick, he's a good coach and an excellent defensive mind, but Brady is definitely the biggest reason for the Pats success

[DidUSaySomethin]

What was Belichicks record as head coach before Brady?

belichick won 2 championships before he coached pats whereas brady wasn't even impactful enough to improve his college team. belichick simply needed time to build an o-line and brady came at the right time.

of course, it was drew bledsoe who took the patriots to the SB in 2002. and a couple years ago the patriots beat a playoff team w/ a rookie third string QB in his first career start.

the pats can beat playoff teams w/ a third string QB yet there are fans who still think brady is as important as belichick...

[tpols]

how come people blew peytons last ring off when brady basically did the same thing?

[Bronbron23]

You're referring to Belichicks wonderful Browns tenure where he went 36-44, and had 4 losing seasons in 5 years :lol You want to criticize his team, that's fair, but that's half a decade of evidence, and for the supposed GOAT coach that's an extremely unimpressive tenure

The part that gets to me most is, he goes to New England, they start off 5-11 his first year, then begin the '01 season 0-2 before Bledsoe goes down with injury. So that's 6 seasons, two different teams, and a 41-57 record pre Brady. Then after starting his Pats tenure 5-13, the INSTANT Brady becomes the starter, his teams performance does a complete 180 and suddenly starts ripping off wins & Super Bowl titles; pretty strange coincidence :lol

'08 is always a fall back point, and I'm not knocking it, it was an impressive job for them to withstand the loss of Brady and still win 11 games with a QB as mediocre as Cassel. However, let's be fair, he was inheriting a team that just completed the first 16-0 season in history AND broke the scoring record, while having Moss & Welker as receivers. The dirty secret of '08 is that the Pats had the 4th softest schedule of the season, and went 1-4 against playoff teams

It's no knock on Belichick, he's a good coach and an excellent defensive mind, but Brady is definitely the biggest reason for the Pats success
I disagree. Coaching is the most important piece in football. It's more about strategy and adjustments then any other sport. Brady and Taylor are the best players I've ever seen but neither of the would rings without there coaches. Give bill a bumb quarter back hes still gonna do well. Put Brady on the browns and there still terrible

[imdaman99]

What was Belichicks record as head coach before Brady?
Brady was a 6th round pick before Belichick. You telling me what Bill did was worse than what Brady was? A 6th round pick? :oldlol: Brady took over an undefeated team at Michigan... and underachieved.

They both needed each other. Accept it.

[FireDavidKahn]

What? You obviously know very little about football and heard about bills record before Brady. Did you know bill won 2 chips as the Giants defensive coordinator? Did you know he took the shitty ass browns to 11-5 and a playoff win. That was the last time the browns won a playoff game btw.

Oh and since he's had brady he's gone 13-6 in games Brady missed. Most of those games were during the 2008 season when Brady was out. Bill went 11-5 with a scrub as a quarter back.

Tom is the goat there's no dought but give bill belichick rodgers, big Ben or brees and he still wins 5 or 6 chips.

If Brady and Rogers switched teams Rogers would have 6 chips right now and Brady would maybe have 1

13-6 sounds impressive until you realize that it is a worse winning % then Brady has for his entire career:oldlol:

[FireDavidKahn]

I disagree. Coaching is the most important piece in football. It's more about strategy and adjustments then any other sport. Brady and Taylor are the best players I've ever seen but neither of the would rings without there coaches. Give bill a bumb quarter back hes still gonna do well. Put Brady on the browns and there still terrible

Give Bill a bum QB and he never wins a SB

[imdaman99]

Give Bill a bum QB and he never wins a SB
Give Brady a bum coach and he never even plays. We could do this all day

[ImKobe]

I disagree. Coaching is the most important piece in football. It's more about strategy and adjustments then any other sport. Brady and Taylor are the best players I've ever seen but neither of the would rings without there coaches. Give bill a bumb quarter back hes still gonna do well. Put Brady on the browns and there still terrible

And coaches don't win without great players :confusedshrug:

It works both ways.

But at the same time, you can win with an average coach and great players who are able to make adjustments on the field, but you can't win with a great coach and bad players. Josh McDaniels (Patriots OC) was terrible outside NE, Matt Patricia (their DC last year) wasn't a success in Detroit.

Heck, the Browns finally drafted a decent QB in Mayfield and went from a 0-16 season to almost making the Playoffs with the same coaches.

Bill was 5-11 with Drew Bledsoe in 2000 and 11 - 3 the next year with Brady (Bledsoe was 0 - 2 before Brady took over that season). You can't win with a terrible QB, especially in the modern era. As great as Bill's defenses have been, all their SB wins have come down to Brady having great late-game drives. Where was Bill's defense last year, when Brady threw for 505 with 3 TDs?

Where was Bill's defense against the Chiefs in the 4th quarter, when Mahomes scored 24 points while only having the ball for 3 minutes in the quarter? Again Brady makes the plays that gets them to the SB.

[FireDavidKahn]

Give Brady a bum coach and he never even plays. We could do this all day
I've always been one to say they needed each other. Neither one is the GOAT without the other.

[1987_Lakers]

When Brady missed one year with an injury, the Pats were 11-5, though they did miss the playoffs on a tie-breaker. When Brady sat out his four game suspension, NE was 3-1, winning one game with the 3d string QB. Small sample size, but I've always thought Beli was more important than Brady. Does anyone seriously think that Aaron Rodgers wouldn't have won at least as many SB with that team? Probably several other QBs, too, thought that isn't as obvious.

When they went 11-5 they were 16-0 the year before with Brady. Don't get it twisted, the Patriots MVP from 2007-present in general has been Brady, not Belichick. Brady carried a couple of bad defenses to the super bowl, see 2011 and 2017.

That's not a knock on Belichick though, the Pats obviously don't win as many as super bowls without him, his gameplan for this super bowl and vs the greatest show on turf in 2001 was legendary stuff.

Why can't we just acknowledge that these two are the very best at what they do?

[bigkingsfan]

how come people blew peytons last ring off when brady basically did the same thing?
Because it wasn't...

Brady 953 yard 68% completion.
Manning 539 yards 55% completion.

Peyton got the game manager title, rightfully so.

[SouBeachTalents]

how come people blew peytons last ring off when brady basically did the same thing?
Are you fcking kidding me bro :oldlol:

Brady this year: 29 TD's, 11 picks, 4355 yards, 97.7 rating
Peyton in 2015: 9 TD's, 17 picks, 2249 yards, 67.9 rating

Brady was also clearly better in the playoffs, and even with his underwhelming SB, still played better than Peyton did in his. For real, Peyton was AWFUL his final season, so bad he was even getting benched for Brock fcking Osweiler :lol That was a Trent Dilfer level ring

[Marchesk]

For real, Peyton was AWFUL his final season, so bad he was even getting benched for Brock fcking Osweiler :lol That was a Trent Dilfer level ring

Tebow could have won a title with that defensive line.

[Marchesk]

What happened to Jerry Rice? I thought he was the football GOAT?

[tpols]

Because it wasn't...

Brady 953 yard 68% completion.
Manning 539 yards 55% completion.

Peyton got the game manager title, rightfully so.



Brady threw more picks than TDs in the playoffs and won a superbowl.

No QB ever really has that luxury.

#Bill

[4pointshot]

When they went 11-5 they were 16-0 the year before with Brady.

Teams almost always have a worse record in the year following a great season. E.g., the Warriors in their first year with Durant were 6 wins worse than without him. They were actually a better team by PD, but wins are much more subject to chance. That's basically why regression to the mean is used. In the early 1980s, the 49ers and Washington followed 15 or 14 win seasons with 10 wins.

NE has averaged slightly more than 12 wins per season in the Brady era. So 11-5 might be considered a little off, but not by much.


Why can't we just acknowledge that these two are the very best at what they do?

Brady is fourth all-time in passer rating, a metric that is skewed to recent play, because of changes in the rules. I'm not saying that rating is everything, but to make the claim that he is not only one of the best, but the best, is debatable. Offense accounts for maybe 45% in football, and the QB, the most important player in offense, maybe 20%. So sure, he's been a big part of those rings, but nowhere near a majority of it. Again, how many other QBs could have won as many titles given the same team and coach?

[SouBeachTalents]

Brady threw more picks than TDs in the playoffs and won a superbowl.

No QB ever really has that luxury.

#Bill
Brady drove the Pats into the red zone on numerous occasions during the first two games, and the Pats ended up scoring an inordinate amount of rushing touchdowns. Just for reference, Patriot running backs scored 16 touchdowns the entire regular season, an average of one per game. Against the Chargers & Chiefs, they scored 8 times, quadrupling their regular season average. So you can try to point to that as a slight against Brady, but that's more of a statistical anomaly than anything else. Dude still threw for 700 yards & nearly averaged 40 ppg during those wins, so trying to act like his entire postseason was equivalent to his SB performance is laughable

[tpols]

Brady drove the Pats into the red zone on numerous occasions during the first two games, and the Pats ended up scoring an inordinate amount of rushing touchdowns. Just for reference, Patriot running backs scored 16 touchdowns the entire regular season, an average of one per game. Against the Chargers & Chiefs, they scored 8 times, quadrupling their regular season average. So you can try to point to that as a slight against Brady, but that's more of a statistical anomaly than anything else. Dude still threw for 700 yards & nearly averaged 40 ppg during those wins, so trying to act like his entire postseason was equivalent to his SB performance is laughable


yes, the run game was dominant which means he had even more help.

the craziest thing was the defense though. Belicheck, with middling personel (at best), schemed a D that held Rams & Chiefs dynamite offenses to 3 points in 6 quarters.

:biggums:

McVay admitted in the post game conference that Bill ran circles around him.

[Bronbron23]

13-6 sounds impressive until you realize that it is a worse winning % then Brady has for his entire career:oldlol:
That's totally irrelevant to this conversation. Brady's been with bill his whole career so the percentage you speak of has alot to do with bill. You would have to compare a sample of Brady without bill for your argument to have any weight

[bigkingsfan]

Brady threw more picks than TDs in the playoffs and won a superbowl.

No QB ever really has that luxury.

#Bill
QB is more than just throwing TD, it's about 3rd down conversions and putting your team in position to score.

Brady got to the two yard line for the GW drive in the SB with all passes.
KC game, same thing, got to the 15 yard line with all passes in OT.

[stalkerforlife]

QB is more than just throwing TD, it's about 3rd down conversions and putting your team in position to score.

Brady got to the two yard line for the GW drive in the SB with all passes.
KC game, same thing, got to the 15 yard line with all passes in OT.

Exactly.

If Brady was a stat stuffing loser, he could've called pass plays after getting close to scoring to make his box score pretty.

And yes, he can call whatever the hell play he wants to; he's Tom Brady.

Those clutch ass throws were invaluable.

[FireDavidKahn]

Teams almost always have a worse record in the year following a great season. E.g., the Warriors in their first year with Durant were 6 wins worse than without him. They were actually a better team by PD, but wins are much more subject to chance. That's basically why regression to the mean is used. In the early 1980s, the 49ers and Washington followed 15 or 14 win seasons with 10 wins.

NE has averaged slightly more than 12 wins per season in the Brady era. So 11-5 might be considered a little off, but not by much.



Brady is fourth all-time in passer rating, a metric that is skewed to recent play, because of changes in the rules. I'm not saying that rating is everything, but to make the claim that he is not only one of the best, but the best, is debatable. Offense accounts for maybe 45% in football, and the QB, the most important player in offense, maybe 20%. So sure, he's been a big part of those rings, but nowhere near a majority of it. Again, how many other QBs could have won as many titles given the same team and coach?

The offense dropped from 36.5 PPG with Brady to 25.6 with Cassel.

The Pats SRS was 20.06 with Brady (1st) and 3.91 with Cassel (11th)

The Pats under Cassel weren't even close to the year before with Brady. Not even close.

[Wally450]

They both succeed because of each other. I had to pick which one would have more success without the other, I'd probably choose Belichick.

[4pointshot]

The offense dropped from 36.5 PPG with Brady to 25.6 with Cassel.

2006 Brady QB 24.1 ppg
2007 Brady QB 36.5 ppg
2008 Cassel QB 25.6 ppg
2009 Brady QB 26.7 ppg

To repeat, it's a mistake to compare everything to an outlier season, which 2007 was. In the eighteen B-B years, NE has averaged 27.9 +/- 4.0 ppg. The 25.6 they averaged when Brady was out is well within that range. In fact, NE was below that average in five of Brady's first six years, and they have averaged less than 30 ppg in each of the last six years.

I'm not going to claim NE's offense was just as good under Cassel as Brady, but the drop-off was not that great. They won one less game than theri average, and they scored two less points than their average. Not a big deal.

[CelticBaller]

Matt Cassell was a pro bowler outside NE

Jacoby Brissett and Garappolo are both winning QB's outside NE

Belichik had good back ups when Brady was there

Now someone please tell me his record before Brady started? anyone?

[kawhileonard2]

Oh

[ImKobe]

Matt Cassell was a pro bowler outside NE

Jacoby Brissett and Garappolo are both winning QB's outside NE

Belichik had good back ups when Brady was there

Now someone please tell me his record before Brady started? anyone?

It's just foolish to compare the greatest coach to the greatest player. A coach is nothing without the players. Brady winning in Tampa solidified that argument. They won 11 games in 2008 but missed the Playoffs, yet people use that season to downplay Brady's impact when they scored 11 more points a game & went undefeated in the RS the year before :banghead: .

[SouBeachTalents]

how come people blew peytons last ring off when brady basically did the same thing?
I thought his basketball takes were garbage, but this might literally be the dumbest post ever made on ISH.

[tpols]

Belicheck orchestrated the number 2 defense in the league and took a team that had no business making the playoffs to the playoffs last year.

Brady is no doubt clutch, but he ALWAYS gets put in ridiculously advantageous situations. When he team hopped to the bucs he was throwing to Mike Evans, Godwin, Gronk, had heisman talent Fournette running the ball and Tampa bays defense was super elite.

We've NEVER seen Tom Brady on a non stacked team. But we have seen Belicheck coach teams that were mediocre at best and have success.

A lot of people don't even know. Bill was the architect of that dominant 90s Giants Super Bowl winning defense as well.

[BarberSchool]

Forewarning:

Brady finna win another ring this year, OP. And we finna bump this thread when he does. Gronk will play limited snaps in the regular season, and let their draft pick TE develop and pile up numbers. Brady is also bringing back at least two of his former slot guys.

While not as vocal about it as Manning, Brady has been around long enough and been stone cold sober the vast majority of the time, where he has seen everything, and remembers it all, and can communicate that all to his teammates to win game after game after game.

He’s a master at reading defenses and communicating with his teammates. And getting every players best. Getting everyone to buy in.

He’s gonna be a great coach for similar reasons, once he finally retires.

[Taurus]

What happened to Jerry Rice? I thought he was the football GOAT?

This is a pretty late response, but Rice is still considered by far the greatest receiver of all time.

It's just that Brady has won way too much and been dominant for way too long not to acknowledge him as the GOAT.

Still, it's kind of an apples to oranges to compare players playing different positions in the NFL

[JBSptfn]

This is a pretty late response, but Rice is still considered by far the greatest receiver of all time.

It's just that Brady has won way too much and been dominant for way too long not to acknowledge him as the GOAT.

Still, it's kind of an apples to oranges to compare players playing different positions in the NFL

Not by me. Calvin Johnson is the best receiver ever. Rice was good, but he benefited from a short passing offense:

https://web.archive.org/web/20010116110700fw_/http://49erhaters.com/players.html#jerry

[Wally450]

Not by me. Calvin Johnson is the best receiver ever. Rice was good, but he benefited from a short passing offense:

https://web.archive.org/web/20010116110700fw_/http://49erhaters.com/players.html#jerry

This is some 3ball level shit. :lol

Calvin was ungodly talented, but he never had the accolades that Jerry Rice had. Granted, Rice had the benefit of playing with the greatest quarterback of that era. Give Calvin Tom Brady and who knows. We all saw what Brady did in just a couple seasons with late prime Moss.

[Taurus]

Not by me. Calvin Johnson is the best receiver ever. Rice was good, but he benefited from a short passing offense:

https://web.archive.org/web/20010116110700fw_/http://49erhaters.com/players.html#jerry

Rice had a lot going for him: back to back hall of fame quarterbacks and playing in the west coast offense. Still, it doesn't take away the fact that no wide receiver is even remotely close to his accolades, or that Rice was still putting up decent numbers at age 40 while on the Raiders (granted Gannon was a damn good QB in his prime)

Although if you only wanna compare their peaks, I have no problems with anyone saying Moss or even Calvin Johnson might be better. But as for careers, it's not even close.