If Lebron finishes with less than 5 rings.

[Big164]

Kobe is better.

Both played with great teams, But Bryant leveraged more championships on less tries. Kobe is the better leader. Better Defender. And can take on quadruple team coverage.

[Wally450]

Kobe is better.

Both played with great teams, But Bryant leveraged more championships on less tries. Kobe is the better leader. Better Defender. And can take on quadruple team coverage.

Like this?
http://i.imgur.com/yC16Jwa.jpg

[G0ATbe]

LeBrons trumps Kobe in every statistic, has more FMVPs and MVPs, and has come closer to winning DPOY than Kobe ever did on more than one occasion. There's no legitimate argument for Kobe over LeBron currently. And this is coming from a diehard Kobe fan.

[Manny98]

Alpha rings

LeBron 3
Kobe 2

So LeBron already passed Kobe in that department

If you want to bring up the rings argument then your admitting that Robert Horry is better than Michael Jordan and you've already lost

[kennethgriffen]

Kobe is better.

Both played with great teams, But Bryant leveraged more championships on less tries. Kobe is the better leader. Better Defender. And can take on quadruple team coverage.


realistically kobe had a shot at a ring while healthy and with a good enough roster in 2000, 2001, 2002, 2003, 2004, 2008, 2009, 2010


and he won 5 out of those 8 years


lebrons been healthy with a good enough roster in 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012, 2013, 2014, 2016, 2017



and he won 3 out of 8 years ( should have been 1 )


so whether you look at finals or real opportunities... kobe comes out on top

[k0kakw0rld]

LeBron with 1 ring > Kobe with 10 rings

There's absolutely no way in hell, Kobe was a better basketball player than LeBron.

FOH

[Mr Exlax]

I look at skill and impact. LBJ is better than Kobe at just about everything except back to the basket scoring and midrange scoring. Rings are too much of a team accomplishment for me to base player rankings on.

[kennethgriffen]

LeBron with 1 ring > Kobe with 10 rings

There's absolutely no way in hell, Kobe was a better basketball player than LeBron.

FOH


do you have any idea how dumb this sounds


you come across like a 10 year old foreign kid that never picked up a basketball

[Big164]

Alpha rings

LeBron 3
Kobe 2

So LeBron already passed Kobe in that department

If you want to bring up the rings argument then your admitting that Robert Horry is better than Michael Jordan and you've already lost
Robert horry never led a team dipshit.

And he may not have been top 4 on any of teams he was on.

[kennethgriffen]

Alpha rings

LeBron 3
Kobe 2

So LeBron already passed Kobe in that department

If you want to bring up the rings argument then your admitting that Robert Horry is better than Michael Jordan and you've already lost


kobe has 4 alpha rings and 1 sidekick ring... if lebron can win 2 more alpha rings i'll admit he's had the better career

[Manny98]

Robert horry never led a team dipshit.

And he may not have been top 4 on any of teams he was on.
Exactly

LeBron has LEAD his team to 3 championships

Kobe has LEAD his team to 2 championships

So LeBron wins in terms of rings

Jordan is the only player that has LEAD a team to more championships than LeBron but he played in a watered-down era where there were no superteams so all of his accomplishments are inflated

[pauk]

If Kobe truly leveraged 5 championships (instead of just 2) the way required to become the best ever or close then he would be a clear #2 in my book (despite the lack of MVPs, he would still have 5 FMVPs)..... but its not the case...

"You saying his 3 first rings doesnt matter"?

It matters.... it matters the same way Wade got his last 2.... Pippen got all his 6.... or Havlicek got rings.... and so on...

[kennethgriffen]

If Kobe truly leveraged 5 championships (instead of just 2) the way required to become the best ever or close then he would be a clear #2 in my book (despite the lack of MVPs, he would still have 5 FMVPs)..... but its not the case...

"You saying his 3 first rings doesnt matter"?

It matters.... it matters the same way Wade got his last 2.... Pippen got all his 6.... or Havlicek got 99% of his 8 rings....


he has 4 legit full alpha rings... he was the most important player in the biggest series for the lakers last 4 championships


his 2000 ring is the only one anyone can argue gets less value. and in that run he saved their season twice

[Dray n Klay]

he has 4 legit full alpha rings... he was the most important player in the biggest series for the lakers last 4 championships


his 2000 ring is the only one anyone can argue gets less value. and in that run he saved their season twice

40 point games in the Finals?

35 point triple doubles?

[pauk]

he has 4 legit full alpha rings... he was the most important player in the biggest series for the lakers last 4 championships


his 2000 ring is the only one anyone can argue gets less value. and in that run he saved their season twice

Lebron has 4 MVPs, 3 FMVPs, 3 Championships he LEVERAGED (in historic great circumstance fashion, all 3 were performed better than any of Kobe's Finals, better performance & competition especially that one in Cleveland) and lets just exclude all the stats/totals.... vs Kobe's 1 mvp, 2 fmvps, 2 LEVERAGED championships and 3 sidekick rings just isnt enough.....

Kobe was good, just not that Lebron good (certainly not better)...

This needs to stop, anytime Kobe is in discussion for GOAT or something... he is getting overrated.... Lebron aswell (even tho he has a better case than Kobe, still just no)....

Jordan > Lebron > Kobe.... but all are top 10 all-time.... thats how it is and thats where it needs to end, i dont know why its so hard to accept.

[SouBeachTalents]

40 point games in the Finals?

35 point triple doubles?
LeBron didn't have any of those his first 2 titles :lol

[Manny98]

he has 4 legit full alpha rings... he was the most important player in the biggest series for the lakers last 4 championships


his 2000 ring is the only one anyone can argue gets less value. and in that run he saved their season twice
No

2010 - Gasol
2009 - Kobe
2002 - Shaq
2001 - Kobe

So twice

[k0kakw0rld]

do you have any idea how dumb this sounds


you come across like a 10 year old foreign kid that never picked up a basketball
Better stats and advanced stats than Kobe
More accolades and better playoff/finals performer than Kobe

What exactly are you looking to debate? :confusedshrug:

No matter how many threads you will make, nothing will ever change our minds. Both choked in big games, both had horrible playoffs series. But at the end of the day LeBron shits on the biggest chucker the league has ever seen next to A.I. in Kobe Bryant. Oh and LeBron won their one-on-one match-up, 16-6.

[kennethgriffen]

No

2010 - Gasol
2009 - Kobe
2002 - Shaq
2001 - Kobe

So twice


no

kobe was driving the ship in all 4 instances... shaq and gasol were more efficient at times. but they're bigs. they're supposed to be... kobe was the guy taking/making all the clutch shots/ all the clutch free throws/ making all the passes/opening up every horry and every fisher shot


gasols points and assists all came off of kobes initial draw of the defense

[kennethgriffen]

Better stats and advanced stats than Kobe
More accolades and better playoff/finals performer than Kobe

What exactly are you looking to debate? :confusedshrug:

No matter how many threads you will make, nothing will ever change our minds. Both choked in big games, both had horrible playoffs series. But at the end of the day LeBron shits on the biggest chucker the league has ever seen next to A.I. in Kobe Bryant. Oh and LeBron won their one-on-one match-up, 16-6.


you should have elgin baylor as the #1 or #2 player ever


if 10 rings to 1 doesn't matter. then any amount of rings to baylors 0 shouldn't matter... and a 27/14/4 career average with 8 finals appearances is above lebron if you take away his rings



see how stats can be misleading? see how common sense prevails over stupidity?

[egokiller]

LeBron has no argument over Kobe because Kobe did more in a more difficult conference while having less. LeBron is proving that he is struggling in the west where Kobe flourished. LeBron's entire career is a joke, based on playing in a weak eastern conference. LeBron would need to have more rings that Kobe and a better finals record to justify being better, but he doesn't and he can't even make a clutch finals shot. Kobe has made 2 clutch finals shots. There's so many reasons why Kobe has proven that he's better at the game of basketball than LeBron that it takes too long to goth through them.

[Manny98]

LeBron has no argument over Kobe because Kobe did more in a more difficult conference while having less. LeBron is proving that he is struggling in the west where Kobe flourished. LeBron's entire career is a joke, based on playing in a weak eastern conference. LeBron would need to have more rings that Kobe and a better finals record to justify being better, but he doesn't and he can't even make a clutch finals shot. Kobe has made 2 clutch finals shots. There's so many reasons why Kobe has proven that he's better at the game of basketball than LeBron that it takes too long to goth through them.
Kobe missed the playoffs and got embarrassed in the 1st round twice in his prime

Can't say the same for LeBron

[kennethgriffen]

Kobe missed the playoffs and got embarrassed in the 1st round twice in his prime

Can't say the same for LeBron



for the 1000th day in a row


kobe and odom missed 16/18 games each. rudy T had a winning record till injuries/health derailed him and his players. so they brought in hamblen to tank the rest of the season


and kobe took an even worse roster ( without butler ) to the playoffs the next 2 years with kwame/smush as starters


he did the most with what he had


when jordan had similar rosters he won 30 games and only made the playoffs because everyone did back then

[Manny98]

LeBron took a bunch of G league players to the finals at 22 whilst Kobe couldn't even get out the first round with a star like Lamar Odom as his second option :roll:

[egokiller]

Kobe missed the playoffs and got embarrassed in the 1st round twice in his prime

Can't say the same for LeBron

No one cares who misses the playoffs just like no one cares who doesn't make the playoffs as a rookie. What matters is what you do when you get to the finals as a result of having enough help to get you there in the first place. This is why lestans have no leg to stand on because lebron had enough help to get him to the finals 9 times and he failed 6 out of those 9 times. To make matters worse, 2 of those wins came from clutch shots of other players with lebron not even being involved in the play. Lebron just isn't good enough when it matters most because of cancer ball play style. It's not a winning brand of basketball. Without Kyrie and Allen making some of the biggest shots in history, he's basically a modern day 1/9 Jerry West.

Imagine a life where the best you ever saw is basically a 1/9 modern day Jerry West.

[aj1987]

LeBron is already ~10-15 spots ahead of Brick. It's not even worth a discussion at this point anymore.

[PickernRoller]

I don't think there was ever any doubt that Kobe was and is better.

But if the sheep need some reaffirmation sure. He won't and it's just a matter of time. At most he has a ring left as a 3rd option.

[Walk on Water]

LeBron with 1 ring > Kobe with 10 rings

There's absolutely no way in hell, Kobe was a better basketball player than LeBron.

FOH


Lebron said so

[Walk on Water]

LeBron is already ~10-15 spots ahead of Brick. It's not even worth a discussion at this point anymore.


Lebron said Kobe was better and Lebron never did anything to better the argument. Kobe

[Walk on Water]

LeBron took a bunch of G league players to the finals at 22 whilst Kobe couldn't even get out the first round with a star like Lamar Odom as his second option :roll:


Lebron lost to Dallas and got outscored by Jason Terry. No matter how you slice it, Kobe has more jewelry.

[Walk on Water]

Even if you take an average over who wins more, the fact is Kobe won when it mattered most and that

[Lakessss]

Lebron lost to Dallas and got outscored by Jason Terry. No matter how you slice it, Kobe has more jewelry.
Kobe as the defending champion got swept by that same Dallas team and got outplayed, abused, mutilated, and embarrassed by Jason Terry.
No matter how you slice it, Lebron has 3 rings as the Alpha, Kobe was carried to 3 rings by an Alpha in Shaq.
Lebron - 3 FMVP
Kobe - 2 FVMP

Discussion, over.

[Manny98]

[QUOTE=Walk on Water]Even if you take an average over who wins more, the fact is Kobe won when it mattered most and that

[3ball]

LeBrons trumps Kobe in every statistic, has more FMVPs and MVPs, and has come closer to winning DPOY than Kobe ever did on more than one occasion. There's no legitimate argument for Kobe over LeBron currently. And this is coming from a diehard Kobe fan.
^^ So based on your criteria, MJ beats Lebron, and infact demolishes him given his 3 extra championships, 2 extra three-peats, 9 extra scoring titles, 19 first-team all-league distinctions in 10 seasons (highest frequency), etc, etc, on top of your criteria

[PickernRoller]

Kobe as the defending champion got swept by that same Dallas team and got outplayed, abused, mutilated, and embarrassed by Jason Terry.

Lets put some of these alts to bed....

https://i.ibb.co/Y0S0sMT/Kobe-fam.jpg

[sammichoffate]

Lets put some of these alts to bed....

https://i.ibb.co/Y0S0sMT/Kobe-fam.jpgBodied :lol

[Manny98]

Lets put some of these alts to bed....

https://i.ibb.co/Y0S0sMT/Kobe-fam.jpg
Nice but it doesn't change the fact that Kobe got swept

[Gus Hemmingway]

Kobe as the defending champion got swept by that same Dallas team and got outplayed, abused, mutilated, and embarrassed by Jason Terry.
No matter how you slice it, Lebron has 3 rings as the Alpha, Kobe was carried to 3 rings by an Alpha in Shaq.
Lebron - 3 FMVP
Kobe - 2 FVMP

Discussion, over.
Wowzie :eek:

Even Lebron's biggest career blemish (albeit finishing 2nd in league), STILL Trumps Kobe's 2nd round sweepstakes :oldlol:

But who's counting? :confusedshrug: 12be made a living missing playoffs and getting torched in 1st/2nd rounds

Blowing 3-1 leads to Amare'less Suns are a legacy boost. Got Raja Bell handsomely paid that summer :bowdown:

[FKAri]

Lebron lost to Dallas and got outscored by Jason Terry. No matter how you slice it, Kobe has more jewelry.
Rings for Vanessa don't count for squat here chump. LeJames is just better. And no amount of "jewellery", $tat$, or anecdotes can change that fact.

[PickernRoller]

So many deflects for incoming fire!

:yaohappy:
:hammertime:

[Celtics 1825]

So is Bill Russell your GOAT then OP?

[SouBeachTalents]

So is Bill Russell your GOAT then OP?
Why is Kobe ranked ahead of Havlicek if rangz & Finals record is the ultimate criteria. 8/8 > 5/7. You can't even call them Horry rings since he, like Kobe, was putting up superstar level production for 4 of his titles and had the award be given out throughout his career, he would've had 2-3 FMVP's

[3ball]

Why is Kobe ranked ahead of Havlicek if rangz & Finals record is the ultimate criteria. 8/8 > 5/7. You can't even call them Horry rings since he, like Kobe, was putting up superstar level production for 4 of his titles and had the award be given out throughout his career, he would've had 2-3 FMVP's
Stats show level of domination, while championship record shows how good teams can be while you dominate

So you need both - you need the great stats AND winning (otherwise your style is just padding, not winning skill)

Havlicek only has the championship record, not the stats/domination, indicating that he was carried to victory too much to be compared to Kobe

Lebron compares better to Kobe because he has the stats/domination.. But now championship record comes into play as lebron's brand of ball wasn't the best of his era, so he won less rings than Kobe, who played the best brand of his era and led the dominant, favored teams

I prefer winning, and the skill it takes to win.. so I prefer Kobe. But apparently a lot of people prefer padding skill, so they go lebron

[SouBeachTalents]

Stats show level of domination, while championship record shows how good teams can be while you dominate

So you need both - you need the great stats AND winning (otherwise your style is just padding, not winning skill)

Havlicek only has the championship record, not the stats/domination, indicating that he was carried to victory too much to be compared to Kobe

Lebron compares better to Kobe because he has the stats/domination.. But now championship record comes into play as lebron's brand of ball wasn't the best of his era, so he won less rings than Kobe, who played the best brand of his era and led the dominant, favored teams

I prefer winning, and the skill it takes to win.. so I prefer Kobe. But apparently a lot of people prefer padding skill, so they go lebron
Havlicek won rings putting up

24/9/4
26/9/8
25/10/6
27/6/6

And he led his team in scoring for 3 of his championships, something literally only a handful of players in league history, not even Kobe, could claim

[sdot_thadon]

Kobe was only driving the bus for 2 of his 5 titles, it is what it is. He's absolutely the greatest 2nd option ever, but being number 2 matters.

edit: hondo post is right on point.

[SamuraiSWISH]

He’s gonna finish with 3.

Barring AD / KD and a player like Kyrie / Butler / Leonard / Klay also coming down to LA. It’s virtually over with for him.

Done. That’s why his sunset tour is in LA.

[3ball]

Havlicek won rings putting up

24/9/4
26/9/8
25/10/6
27/6/6

And he led his team in scoring for 3 of his championships, something literally only a handful of players in league history, not even Kobe, could claim
Havlicek has massive statistical deficits to Kobe

I don't want to start posting their career per game stats or advanced stats, but there's a big gap there

Lebron, Durant, Wade and the like don't have this statistical/domination gap, so they're more accurate comparisons to Kobe and those are the comparisons you hear, not Havlicek

Stats show level of domination, while championship record shows how good teams are while you dominate - so you need both to compare to the very best perimeter players, and Hondo only has the rings

[aj1987]

Havlicek has massive statistical deficits to Kobe

I don't want to start posting their career per game stats or advanced stats, but there's a big gap there

Lebron, Durant, Wade and the like don't have this statistical/domination gap, so they're more accurate comparisons to Kobe and those are the comparisons you hear, not Havlicek

Stats show level of domination, while championship record shows how good teams are while you dominate - so you need both to compare to the very best perimeter players, and Hondo only has the rings
LeBron has significantly better raw stats and advanced metrics than Kobe.

[Vragrant]

Exactly

LeBron has LEAD his team to 3 championships

Kobe has LEAD his team to 2 championships

So LeBron wins in terms of rings

Jordan is the only player that has LEAD a team to more championships than LeBron but he played in a watered-down era where there were no superteams so all of his accomplishments are inflated


2 of Lebron titles were on super teams he himself was on. So by that logic you must subtract 2 of his rings as well