Who wins in place of LeBron in 2007, 2014, 2015, 2017, 2018

[Dray n Klay]

Who?

[MrFonzworth]

2016 Kyrie Irving

[SouBeachTalents]

2011 Jason Terry

[Mr. Jabbar]

2012 Ray Allen

[Mr. Jabbar]

2016 Adam Silver

[bigkingsfan]

2011 Lebron

[Mr. Jabbar]

2014 Kawhi Leonard

[Dray n Klay]

2016 Kobe

[jstern]

2015 Iguodala wins.

[sammichoffate]

2007 Jordan
2014 Jordan
2015 Jordan
2017 Shaq/Kareem
2018 Shaq/Jordan

[AlternativeAcc.]

the player does not exist!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oDAKKQuBtDo

[masonanddixon]

Dirk on that 2007 squad would have been freaking insane. GOAT level defense and the most clutch superstar ever.

[SouBeachTalents]

Dirk on that 2007 squad would have been freaking insane. GOAT level defense and the most clutch superstar ever.
True, Dirk was ballin in the playoffs that season

[Real14]

2016 Adam Silver
End thread🤣:roll:

[3ball]

MJ all of them

[3ball]

MJ 3-peated twice so it's hard to see him not winning in 14'

Lebron doesn't get knocked nearly enough for that loss.. it should be a massive stain on his record.. he had superstar teammates.. he had a squad.. and he was the defending champs.. no excuse for losing to old-timers, let alone record blowout, let alone quitting in the last game because it was so bad.. but that's what happens when an inferior brand of ball is solved and completely usurped by a superior brand.. reminded me of the 91 bulls over the pistons

And lot of guys could win in 07'.. the Spurs weren't good, and lebron was literally worst-all-time in that series.. a lot of guys would've won in his place

In 2017, lebron had a healthy big 3.. so there's zero excuse for lebron not having a dominant favorite that could clash with the warriors as 2 titans, ala Lakers/celtics in the 80's.. but instead he underwhems with his big 3 and is big underdog going into the Finals... :facepalm... Bird, curry, MJ, and Duncan would win by having a dominant dynasty THEMSELVES to face the Warriors

In 2018, guys like Dirk and Chauncey had bigger upsets, so maybe they could've won... Given that MJ made his teams so good that they could win 55 without him, MJ's team would probably be good enough with a perennial all-star like Love coupled with MJ
.

[Duncan21formvp]

2007 Jordan
2014 Jordan
2015 Jordan
2017 Shaq/Kareem
2018 Shaq/Jordan
Also Duncan and Magic and Bird.

None of them would have lost to Dwight Howard with HCA a year they won MVP.

[SouBeachTalents]

MJ 3-peated twice so it's hard to see him not winning in 14'

Lebron doesn't get knocked nearly enough for that loss.. it should be a massive stain on his record.. he had superstar teammates
Imagine having the balls to claim that the 2014 versions of Wade & Bosh were superstar players. 3ball be shameless with his shit

And lot of guys could win in 07'.. the Spurs weren't good
A team that won 2 of the last 4 titles with a prime Duncan/Parker/Manu & coached by Pop isn't even "good", ok :lol


In 2018, guys like Dirk and Chauncey had bigger upsets, so maybe they could've won.
Chauncey Billups with the Cavs last year maybe beats the Warriors

https://media.giphy.com/media/XpCy5QYTh8UKc/giphy.gif

[Dray n Klay]

MJ 3-peated twice so it's hard to see him not winning in 14'

Lebron doesn't get knocked nearly enough for that loss.. it should be a massive stain on his record.. he had superstar teammates.. he had a squad.. and he was the defending champs.. no excuse for losing to old-timers, let alone record blowout, let alone quitting in the last game because it was so bad.. but that's what happens when an inferior brand of ball is solved and completely usurped by a superior brand.. reminded me of the 91 bulls over the pistons

And lot of guys could win in 07'.. the Spurs weren't good, and lebron was literally worst-all-time in that series.. a lot of guys would've won in his place

In 2017, lebron had a healthy big 3.. so there's zero excuse for lebron not having a dominant favorite that could clash with the warriors as 2 titans, ala Lakers/celtics in the 80's.. but instead he underwhems with his big 3 and is big underdog going into the Finals... :facepalm... Bird, curry, MJ, and Duncan would win by having a dominant dynasty THEMSELVES to face the Warriors

In 2018, guys like Dirk and Chauncey had bigger upsets, so maybe they could've won... Given that MJ made his teams so good that they could win 55 without him, MJ's team would probably be good enough with a perennial all-star like Love coupled with MJ
.



LeBron lost while averaging 12 rebounds and 10 assists


So how would Jordan

[3ball]

Imagine having the balls to claim that the 2014 versions of Wade & Bosh were superstar players. 3ball be shameless with his shit


Wade and Bosh (32 and 29) were every bit the stars that 98' pippen and rodman were (33 and 36)

Wade/Bosh were 22 ppg all-stars for 2 more years each after 2014.. pip wasn't an all-star in 99'

Ur just biased - Wade was lights out in the 2014 ecf against a much better defense than the Spurs, which allowed the heat to win those ecf with just 22 ppg from lebron.. the heat simply had their brand usurped and blown away by a superior brand in the Finals, and some teammates will always play poorly when that happens..

Furthermore, lebron was the only guy letting his man score way above his regular season average.. everyone else held their man in check, except lebron.. so lebron's inferior brand of ball and defense caused the loss.. MJ would've 3-peated like he did twice... with better brand of ball and defense





A team that won 2 of the last 4 titles with a prime Duncan/Parker/Manu & coached by Pop isn't even "good", ok :lol


The spurs played 4 tight-ass games with the Cavs despite 22 on 36% and shit brand/ball movement from lebron

Surely 30 on 50% from any number of greats would've won





Chauncey Billups with the Cavs last year maybe beats the Warriors


Or Dirk - both had bigger upsets, and first time upsets - like, u can't be that big a dog facing the same team for the 4th time in a row. Surely you figured something out and aren't just a ball-dominatin' fool about to get blownied again.. :rolleyes:

[SamuraiSWISH]

90s Bulls curb stomp those Warriors and Spurs

[Dray n Klay]

90s Bulls curb stomp those Warriors and Spurs

Probably even the 1994 Bulls without Jordan

[Real14]

OP never had p.ussy before.

[SouBeachTalents]

Wade and Bosh (32 and 29) were every bit the stars that 98' pippen and rodman were (33 and 36)

Wade/Bosh were 22 ppg all-stars for 2 more years each after 2014.. pip wasn't an all-star in 99'

Ur just biased - Wade was lights out in the 2014 ecf against a much better defense than the Spurs, which allowed the heat to win those ecf with just 22 ppg from lebron.. the heat simply had their brand usurped and blown away by a superior brand in the Finals, and some teammates will always play poorly when that happens..
Lights out? He had a nice series averaging just shy of 20 ppg on good efficiency against an overmatched Pacers team. Lights out is a laughable exaggeration

This is where you become completely full of shit. We both know god damn well had Pippen averaged 15/4/3 on 50% TS in the Finals you would make post after post talking about how he played with the worst 2nd option of all time. And before you (predictably) bring up Pippen's numbers from the '98 Finals, never forget, before his back went out he was getting legitimate consideration for MVP that series, because unlike Wade's sieve likw defense Pippen was destroying the Jazz on that end

https://www.chicagotribune.com/news/ct-xpm-1998-06-11-9806110398-story.html
https://www.chicagotribune.com/news/ct-xpm-1998-06-11-9806110397-story.html
https://www.deseretnews.com/article/635114/What-about-Pippen-for-NBA-Finals-MVP.html
https://www.apnews.com/778ed9711147fd5917209bbf1c8c2091

The spurs played 4 tight-ass games with the Cavs
People always claim this, but it's factually bullshit. The Cavs were getting absolutely destroyed heading into the 4th quarter of both games in San Antonio, and they never got closer than 8 at any point of the 4th

Or Dirk - both had bigger upsets, and first time upsets
While Dirk would obviously bring a completely different dimension to the team than LeBron, what specifically would Dirk (or Billups :lol ) do that would led the Cavs to a series win against Golden State?

[3ball]

Lights out? He had a nice series averaging just shy of 20 ppg on good efficiency against an overmatched Pacers team. Lights out is a laughable exaggeration

This is where you become completely full of shit. We both know god damn well had Pippen averaged 15/4/3 on 50% TS in the Finals you would make post after post talking about how he played with the worst 2nd option of all time. And before you (predictably) bring up Pippen's numbers from the '98 Finals, never forget, before his back went out he was getting legitimate consideration for MVP that series, because unlike Wade's sieve likw defense Pippen was destroying the Jazz on that end

https://www.chicagotribune.com/news/ct-xpm-1998-06-11-9806110398-story.html
https://www.chicagotribune.com/news/ct-xpm-1998-06-11-9806110397-story.html
https://www.deseretnews.com/article/635114/What-about-Pippen-for-NBA-Finals-MVP.html
https://www.apnews.com/778ed9711147fd5917209bbf1c8c2091

People always claim this, but it's factually bullshit. The Cavs were getting absolutely destroyed heading into the 4th quarter of both games in San Antonio, and they never got closer than 8 at any point of the 4th

While Dirk would obviously bring a completely different dimension to the team than LeBron, what specifically would Dirk (or Billups :lol ) do that would led the Cavs to a series win against Golden State?
Pippen 98' ECF:. 16.6 on 39%
Wadek 14' ECF:. 19.8 on 55%

We may not agree on the 98' Finals, but Pippen was worse in the 98' ECF and 96' Finals

You don't seem to realize that pippen has DOZENS of bad series to choose from.. many more than Wade had.. Wade was 20 on 48% in the 11-14' playoffs, versus 17 on 41% in 96-98' playoffs for pippen.. and pippen laid huge eggs in 92 ecf (16.0 on 40%), 90' ecf (16 on 42%), 94' ecsf (21 on 40%), and entire 88' and 89' playoffs (9/5 on 40% in 89 ecf)

The bottom line is that lebron had younger sidekicks than 98' MJ, and just as big stars as old pippen and rodman.. wade/bosh were all-stars for 2 more seasons after 14', whereas pippen was done after 98'..

The heat simply got beat by old-timers that played a better brand of ball.. period.. look at the massive team assist gap.. :facepalm .. and lebron's singularly bad defense.. how much evidence do we need OJ?..:biggums: .. lebron is guilty of losing when he should've won in 2014, whether we look at the equal casts or lebron's bad defense and inferior brand

[Indian guy]

LOL nobody. LeBron's teams were severely outmatched talent-wise in each of those series'.

[3ball]

LOL nobody. LeBron's teams were severely outmatched talent-wise in each of those series'.
He wasn't outmatched in 2014

That's just a lie

And 2017 should've been a clash of 2 titans in the Finals like the 80's Celtics/Lakers, but instead he won a pathetic 51 games and was a big underdog..

There's no reason lebron/kyrie/love shouldn't threaten 70 wins like curry/kawhi did, but instead he fielded a shit 51-win team.. but now you want to say he was overmatched???.. :rolleyes: .. he simply underachieved his team's gaudy talent.. you have prime Kyrie and you aren't the favorite? AND love? gtfo dude, quit bitching.. 3/9 bum

[bigkingsfan]

Prime Mj lost to Nick Anderson

[Duncan21formvp]

Prime Mj lost to Nick Anderson
You mean Shaq. Lebron never beat a dominant big in there prime. He lost to Dwight Howard. Saying MJ lost to Nick Anderson is like saying Lebron lost to Rafer Alston.

[FKAri]

You mean Shaq. Lebron never beat a dominant big in there prime. He lost to Dwight Howard. Saying MJ lost to Nick Anderson is like saying Lebron lost to Rafer Alston.
Except Nick was the one to make MJ his bitch with the steal. I'm not one to approve of phagg0try but as a Timothy fan, I'm sure you couldn't understand.

[Duncan21formvp]

Except Nick was the one to make MJ his bitch with the steal. I'm not one to approve of phagg0try but as a Timothy fan, I'm sure you couldn't understand.
Not really as Lebron got outplayed by Dwight.

[Lakessss]

How did Jordan do against the Celtics?

[ImKobe]

Kobe in 2007 (beat the Spurs in 5 with the same 2nd option)
Kobe in 2014 (4 - 1 against the Spurs from 00-08 in 5 Playoff series, good chance he beats them again)
Kobe in 2015 (he used to score 40 with ease on Klay, wouldn't shoot below 40%)
Kobe in 2017 (he never lost with a teammate scoring 27+ ppg in the Finals
Kobe in 2018 (Kevin Love put up Pau Gasol numbers, Kobe won B2B with that).

[3ball]

.
Many guys played better against the same Spurs team:


Lebron vs. Spurs in 2007 Finals: 22 ppg on 35%

Melo vs. Spurs in 2007 1st Rd: 27 ppg on 48%

Dirk vs. Spurs in 2007.. WCF: 27 ppg on 53%

Bonzi vs. Spurs in 2006 1st Rd: 23/12 on 61%

Kobe vs. Spurs in 2008.. WCF: 29 ppg on 53%



The reason for Lebron's worse efficiency was JUMPSHOOTING EFFICIENCY:


....................... midrange jumpshot FG%..... 3-point jumpshot FG%..... Jumpshot proportion of offense

Lebron 2007 Finals (http://stats.nba.com/player/2544/shooting/?Season=2006-07&SeasonType=Playoffs&PORound=4) .............14.8........................... 20.0............................... 52.2
Bonzi 2006 1st Rd (http://stats.nba.com/player/1719/shooting/?Season=2005-06&SeasonType=Playoffs&PORound=1) ..............50.0........................... 62.5............................... 32.2
Dirk 2006 WCF (http://stats.nba.com/player/1717/shooting/?Season=2005-06&SeasonType=Playoffs&PORound=3) ..................41.3........................... 50.0 .............................. 61.2
Melo 2007 1st Rd (http://stats.nba.com/player/2546/shooting/?Season=2006-07&SeasonType=Playoffs&PORound=1) ...............37.5........................... 50.0 .............................. 59.1
Kobe 2008 WCF (http://stats.nba.com/player/977/shooting/?Season=2007-08&SeasonType=Playoffs&PORound=3) .................50.0........................... 33.3............................... 63.3



Everyone shot well on jumpers against the Spurs, EXCEPT Lebron - the so the Spurs jumpshooting defense clearly wasn't prohibitive - Lebron just couldn't shoot.

Even 9 years later in 2016, his efficiency was among the worst in NBA outside the paint... Lebron simply COULDN'T SHOOT until the last 5 years or so - he shot less than 30% on jumpers in the 15' Finals too... When a player can't shoot, there are tons of guys that can play better than him.

[Rico2016]

I'll be the first legitimate reply since the whole 1st page was a troll fest.

Answer:

Literally no one in those years

MJ couldn't even GET to the Finals without Pippen so he is obviously excluded (No Pippen on the Cavs/Heat)

Kobe couldn't go anywhere without an elite 7-footer big man (Gasol/Shaq) so he is obviously excluded

So again, No one could do it.

[Rico2016]

Kobe in 2007 (beat the Spurs in 5 with the same 2nd option)
Kobe in 2014 (4 - 1 against the Spurs from 00-08 in 5 Playoff series, good chance he beats them again)
Kobe in 2015 (he used to score 40 with ease on Klay, wouldn't shoot below 40%)
Kobe in 2017 (he never lost with a teammate scoring 27+ ppg in the Finals
Kobe in 2018 (Kevin Love put up Pau Gasol numbers, Kobe won B2B with that).

Without a top 5 all time great Shaq? I don't think so bucko

[3ball]

I'll be the first legitimate reply since the whole 1st page was a troll fest.

Answer:

Literally no one in those years

MJ couldn't even GET to the Finals without Pippen so he is obviously excluded (No Pippen on the Cavs/Heat)

Kobe couldn't go anywhere without an elite 7-footer big man (Gasol/Shaq) so he is obviously excluded

So again, No one could do it.
Iverson, Kidd and Dwight all made the Finals in that conference with weak casts, so gtfo.. Dwight made it by beating lebron

That conference was just really weak

MJ never lost to a team as bad as the 07' Pistons, and beat better teams than the 07' Pistons when Pippen was < Zydrunas/Hughes/Gooden, who all did better than Pippen's 9/5 on 40%

Tons of guys would've made the Finals in 07'

[Dray n Klay]

Kobe in 2007 (beat the Spurs in 5 with the same 2nd option)
Kobe in 2014 (4 - 1 against the Spurs from 00-08 in 5 Playoff series, good chance he beats them again)
Kobe in 2015 (he used to score 40 with ease on Klay, wouldn't shoot below 40%)
Kobe in 2017 (he never lost with a teammate scoring 27+ ppg in the Finals
Kobe in 2018 (Kevin Love put up Pau Gasol numbers, Kobe won B2B with that).
:lol

The same Kobe that missed the playoffs in his prime with a better supporting cast than 2007 LeBron?


:lol

[Rico2016]

Iverson, Kidd and Dwight all made the Finals in that conference with weak casts, so gtfo.. Dwight made it by beating lebron

That conference was just really weak

MJ never lost to a team as bad as the 07' Pistons, and beat better teams than the 07' Pistons when Pippen was < Zydrunas/Hughes/Gooden, who all did better than Pippen's 9/5 on 40%

Tons of guys would've made the Finals in 07'

BRO, I know you want to sweep 1-9 under a rug but it legit happened.

Without Pippen MJ was just ok. Agree or disagree? Mike couldn't even get out of the 1st round let alone make the Finals, let alone WIN a Finals. Are you insane? If you give Mike Pippen in the scenarios then he has a chance.

[Rico2016]

:lol

The same Kobe that missed the playoffs in his prime with a better supporting cast than 2007 LeBron?


:lol
Right!? Kobe is one of the lowest impact players ever for his hype.

[3ball]

:lol

The same Kobe that missed the playoffs in his prime with a better supporting cast than 2007 LeBron?


:lol
It's interesting because lebron missed the playoffs in 05' with the East all-star center AND a 14/10 pf

He needed the addition of a high-scoring, all-league defender to make the playoffs in 06'

overall, lebron needed a 2-time all-star center, a 20 ppg all-league defender and a 14/9 PF to make the 06' playoffs.. that's much better than any low-seeded cast that Kobe or MJ ever had - Their casts had zero accolades, while lebron had decorated teammates

[Dray n Klay]

It's interesting because lebron missed the playoffs in 05' with the East all-star center AND a 14/10 pf

He needed the addition of a high-scoring, all-league defender to make the playoffs in 06'

overall, lebron needed a 2-time all-star center, a 20 ppg all-league defender and a 14/9 PF to make the playoffs.. that's much better than any low-seeded cast that Kobe or MJ ever had - Their casts had zero accolades, while lebron had decorated teammates

LeBron won more games in 2005 than MJ did before he got Pippen


You

[Rico2016]

[QUOTE=Dray n Klay]LeBron won more games in 2005 than MJ did before he got Pippen


You

[3ball]

LeBron won more games in 2005 than MJ did before he got Pippen


You’re blaming LeBron for playing in a tougher conference that actually needed a positive win record to make the playoffs? :roll:
He had the East all-star center... :confusedshrug: ... whereas MJ had no all-stars..

how do you miss the playoffs with the East all-star center?.. that's horrible

Btw, how many wins got the 1 seed in 07'?... 53 wins, shit team

How about 85 and 86?.. 63 and 67 wins, goat dynasty

:roll:

And there were only 23 teams in the mid-80's - so there won't be 16 teams with positive records.. below .500 teams were forced into the playoffs because nearly all teams made it.. imagine if nearly all teams made it in 04 and 05' - lebron's 9 seeds would've faced the champion Pistons in the first round. Surely lebron's 9 seeds would've broken the records for losing that his 2 seeds set.... :oldlol:

[Dray n Klay]

LeBron at 22: Made the Finals

Jordan at 22: Lost 3-1 in the 1st round


LeBron at 23: Made the 2nd round

Jordan at 23: Swept in the 1st round


LeBron at 24: Made the ECF

Jordan at 24: Swept in the 1st round



LeBron simply did MORE, at each stage of his career compared to Jordan

[3ball]

LeBron at 22: Made the Finals

Jordan at 22: Lost 3-1 in the 1st round


LeBron at 23: Made the 2nd round

Jordan at 23: Swept in the 1st round


LeBron at 24: Made the ECF

Jordan at 24: Swept in the 1st round



LeBron simply did MORE, at each stage of his career compared to Jordan
By age 25, MJ destroys lebron for the remainder of their careers (25-35)

And 22-year old MJ was a rookie, while 22 lebron had 4 years to improve his team... by MJ's 4th year, he took the champs 6 games with 30 on 46%, while lebron was swept due to his 22 on 36%

Ultimately, even though MJ crushes lebron from 25-35, the best way to compare is by season.. both struggled with poor records and low seeds their first couple seasons, but had 50 wins and 2nd round status by their 3rd healthy season (06' and 88').. after that, lebron lost 6 times as the 1 or 2 seed, while MJ was undefeated (6-0).. MJ is the only top 10 player to never lose with a 1 or 2 seed (the most unbeatable player, aka goat)

We can argue all day about cast and whose losses were more justified, but MJ was clearly the most unbeatable player with a squad

[Dray n Klay]

By age 25, MJ destroys lebron for the remainder of their careers (25-35)

And 22-year old MJ was a rookie, while 22 lebron had 4 years to improve his team... by MJ's 4th year, he took the champs 6 games with 30 on 46%, while lebron was swept due to his 22 on 36%

Ultimately, even though MJ crushes lebron from 25-35, the best way to compare is by season.. both struggled with poor records and low seeds their first couple seasons, but had 50 wins and 2nd round status by their 3rd healthy season (06' and 88').. after that, lebron lost 6 times as the 1 or 2 seed, while MJ was undefeated (6-0).. MJ is the only top 10 player to never lose with a 1 or 2 seed (the most unbeatable player, aka goat)

We can argue all day about cast and whose losses were more justified, but MJ was clearly the most unbeatable player with a squad


How? LeBron won a championship at 27, Jordan was still losing in the ECF at 27

LeBron had 2 rings at 28, Jordan only had 1 ring at that time



You can keep going on. LeBron simply did MORE, at each stage of his career than Jordan

[3ball]

How? LeBron won a championship at 27, Jordan was still losing in the ECF at 27

LeBron had 2 rings at 28, Jordan only had 1 ring at that time



You can keep going on. LeBron simply did MORE, at each stage of his career than Jordan

Well, if you want to get into the nitty-gritty...


At 22, lebron outperformed Jordan (07' vs 85')

At 23, MJ was injured in RS, but outperformed lebron in playoffs:


Jordan vs. 86' Celts:. 44 on 50%
Lebron vs. 08'' Celts:. 26 on 35%


Lebron wins at 24 (09' vs 87')

At 25, both players were eliminated in the 2nd round (10' vs 88'), except lebron's was a major upset.. MJ's team had overachieved with zero accolades, while lebron's 1 seed had 5 guys with all-star or all-defense on their resume (Jamison, Mo, Shaq, Zydrunas, Varejao)

MJ wins age 26 (11' vs. 89')

Lebron wins 27 (12' vs 90')

MJ wins 28-35 (91-98)


TLDR: lebron wins 22, 24 and 27 (07' vs 85'.... 09' vs 87'... 12' vs 90')... MJ wins everything else
.

[SouBeachTalents]

Kobe in 2007 (beat the Spurs in 5 with the same 2nd option)
Kobe in 2014 (4 - 1 against the Spurs from 00-08 in 5 Playoff series, good chance he beats them again)
Kobe in 2015 (he used to score 40 with ease on Klay, wouldn't shoot below 40%)
Kobe in 2017 (he never lost with a teammate scoring 27+ ppg in the Finals
Kobe in 2018 (Kevin Love put up Pau Gasol numbers, Kobe won B2B with that)
Lmao, you say this shit like he'd be playing similar opponents to the series you reference, so laughably simple minded. Yeah, Gasol averaged 20/10 against the Magic a decade earlier, so that means it'd enough to beat the Warriors :oldlol:

[Rico2016]

LeBron at 22: Made the Finals

Jordan at 22: Lost 3-1 in the 1st round


LeBron at 23: Made the 2nd round

Jordan at 23: Swept in the 1st round


LeBron at 24: Made the ECF

Jordan at 24: Swept in the 1st round



LeBron simply did MORE, at each stage of his career compared to Jordan

Big facts