Why couldn't Cavs get Lebron talent?

[StrongLurk]

Luka already has Porzingis who is better than anyone Lebron ever played with pre-Heat.

Simmons/Embiid have each other and then added Butler and Tobias who are all better than anyone Lebron had pre-Heat.

Durant played with Harden/Westbrook/Ibaka.

Kyrie had Lebron/Love and then could have been traded to plenty of garbage franchises...yet ended up on the stacked Celtics.

Curry has Klay/Draymond drafted as teammates, no need to say what happened after.

Maybe it's an era thing and there is just more offensive talent now than in 2000-2010. But it just seems like so many young stars today have a lot of great talent to play with right away.

Comparing it to what Lebron played with pre-Heat just seems crazy.

[Manny98]

Small market + terrible front office

[Dray n Klay]

LeBron got too good too fast,

Cavs were already a .500 team by lebrons 2nd year

They were a contender by his 3rd season



This isn’t a jordan situation where he sucked for 5 years and thus they could draft him a Pippen



The problem was that LeBron was just too good

[ArbitraryWater]

this is what you think of right now?

[StrongLurk]

this is what you think of right now?

Watching the crazy stacked Sixers play against Lebron...yeah it did cross my mind.

So many young stars are on stacked teams right away.

[ImKobe]

Cavs had guys like Boozer, but they weren't willing to pay them that type of money to keep them on the roster. Carlos was a 16/11 big his 2nd season on the Cavs, he did promise to re-sign with them earlier, but Utah offered him so much more money.

Then there was Drew Gooden, who played with Bran for years and was an automatic double-double, you had guys like Big Z, Andy Varejao, J.J Hickson..they signed FAs in Ben Wallace, Shaq, Mo Williams..

They had a lot of talent and the most stacked frontcourt in the league when you look back on the 09/10 seasons. Those guys fit Lebron perfectly. He didn't have that 2nd big name, but the salary cap wasn't what it is now and they did fail to secure Boozer. I'm pretty sure I recall that it was Lebron, who encouraged Boozer to leave and get paid in Utah instead, because the Cavs declined to match.

[SouBeachTalents]

He wasn't alone though, KG in Minny & T-Mac in Orlando both had absolutely horrid teams around them

[ArbitraryWater]

Cavs had guys like Boozer, but they weren't willing to pay them that type of money to keep them on the roster. Carlos was a 16/11 big his 2nd season on the Cavs, he did promise to re-sign with them earlier, but Utah offered him so much more money.

Then there was Drew Gooden, who played with Bran for years and was an automatic double-double, you had guys like Big Z, Andy Varejao, J.J Hickson..they signed FAs in Ben Wallace, Shaq, Mo Williams..

They had a lot of talent and the most stacked frontcourt in the league when you look back on the 09/10 seasons. Those guys fit Lebron perfectly. He didn't have that 2nd big name, but the salary cap wasn't what it is now and they did fail to secure Boozer. I'm pretty sure I recall that it was Lebron, who encouraged Boozer to leave and get paid in Utah instead, because the Cavs declined to match.

Drew Gooden, I can't..

epic help. Why didn't he run a dynasty with him?

[ImKobe]

Drew Gooden, I can't..

epic help. Why didn't he run a dynasty with him?

Their frontcourt was stacked... Bran was drafted to a team with two star-level bigs. Kobe won B2B titles with bum ass Bynum & Gasol. Boozer was the 2nd best player on great Utah teams that my man Kobe ran through in the POs. They had the best offense in the league in like 08 and Booze was their scoring leader.

[StrongLurk]

Cavs had guys like Boozer, but they weren't willing to pay them that type of money to keep them on the roster. Carlos was a 16/11 big his 2nd season on the Cavs, he did promise to re-sign with them earlier, but Utah offered him so much more money.

Then there was Drew Gooden, who played with Bran for years and was an automatic double-double, you had guys like Big Z, Andy Varejao, J.J Hickson..they signed FAs in Ben Wallace, Shaq, Mo Williams..

They had a lot of talent and the most stacked frontcourt in the league when you look back on the 09/10 seasons. Those guys fit Lebron perfectly. He didn't have that 2nd big name, but the salary cap wasn't what it is now and they did fail to secure Boozer. I'm pretty sure I recall that it was Lebron, who encouraged Boozer to leave and get paid in Utah instead, because the Cavs declined to match.

No one you named is anywhere close to the players I listed in the OP.

Imagine young Lebron playing with Embiid, Reddick, Tobias Harris and Jimmy Butler...LOL.

[ArbitraryWater]

Their frontcourt was stacked... Bran was drafted to a team with two star-level bigs. Kobe won B2B titles with bum ass Bynum & Gasol. Boozer was the 2nd best player on great Utah teams that my man Kobe ran through in the POs.

level? Boozer was an all star 3 years later, whats rookie Bran supposed to do with 15 ppg boozer? :lol

[ImKobe]

No one you named is anywhere close to the players I listed in the OP.

Imagine young Lebron playing with Embiid, Reddick, Tobias Harris and Jimmy Butler...LOL.

Imagine Lebron beating the Spurs in 5 with his 2nd option averaging 13 ppg on 45% shooting....

oh wait, his 2nd option averaged 13 ppg on 50% shooting and he got fking swept.

[StrongLurk]

Imagine Lebron beating the Spurs in 5 with his 2nd option averaging 13 ppg on 45% shooting....

oh wait, his 2nd option averaged 13 ppg on 50% shooting and he got fking swept.

You aren't understanding what I'm saying. Every player has had bad series before. But Kobe played with Peak/prime Shaq for 8 years as a young guy.

So many young stars are on great teams right away nowadays while guys like Lebron and KG has absolute crap for so long that they had to LEAVE or be okay with being traded to find a talented team.

I just don't understand how it seems much easier to do this nowadays. Maybe it's because of high salary caps and just better offensive players in the NBA now?

[ImKobe]

level? Boozer was an all star 3 years later, whats rookie Bran supposed to do with 15 ppg boozer? :lol

Boozer averaged 16/11 in 2004, Big Z was an all-star with worse numbers in 03 and 05.

When your bigs are putting up 16/11 and 15/8, you have a pretty damn good team. Or in 2009, when your PG and SG are 40% 3PT shooters and your big man rotation consists of Big Z, Ben Wallace, Andy V, J.J Hickson.

Lebron had depth on those Cavs squads and those teams were built around his strengths.

[aj1987]

Boozer averaged 16/11 in 2004, Big Z was an all-star with worse numbers in 03 and 05.

When your bigs are putting up 16/11 and 15/8, you have a pretty damn good team. Or in 2009, when your PG and SG are 40% 3PT shooters and your big man rotation consists of Big Z, Ben Wallace, Andy V, J.J Hickson.

Lebron had depth on those Cavs squads and those teams were built around his strengths.
“[Former Pacers’ GM David] Morway was trying to get me to trade for them [J.J. Hickson and a selection of other teammates of James], but I ain’t takin’ any of them ****ing guys up there,” Lowe said, quoting Bird from Thomsen’s book, The Soul of Basketball. “I said ‘you don’t understand son. Them guys playing with LeBron James look a whole lot better than what they really are.'”

Lets not forget that Bricked choked a title with Shaq, Malone, and Payton, and needed GOAT level rigging just to get to the PO's with Dwight, Pau, Nash, Artest, and Jamison.

[ImKobe]

You aren't understanding what I'm saying. Every player has had bad series before. But Kobe played with Peak/prime Shaq for 8 years as a young guy.

So many young stars are on great teams right away nowadays while guys like Lebron and KG has absolute crap for so long that they had to LEAVE or be okay with being traded to find a talented team.

I just don't understand how it seems much easier to do this nowadays. Maybe it's because of high salary caps and just better offensive players in the NBA now?

Kobe had Shaq yes, but those Laker teams didn't have a lot of depth when they won it. It was Kobe and Shaq carrying the rest of the roster for the most part. The Cavs didn't have "absolute crap", they had deep ass rosters and had the best record in B2B seasons and those guys showed up for Lebron in most big games, but it was him who underperformed and lost.

You can go back and look at the elimination game against Orlando, or the close games he lost, or the 3 straight duds he dropped against Boston, or how his team went 7 games with the 2008 Celtics, despite him averaging like 18 ppg on 25% shooting in the first four games and turning the ball over 5+ times. You don't go 2 - 2 against one of the ATG teams of your era with those stats, unless you have help.

[SouBeachTalents]

Kobe had Shaq yes, but those Laker teams didn't have a lot of depth when they won it. It was Kobe and Shaq carrying the rest of the roster for the most part. The Cavs didn't have "absolute crap", they had deep ass rosters and had the best record in B2B seasons and those guys showed up for Lebron in most big games, but it was him who underperformed and lost.

You can go back and look at the elimination game against Orlando, or the close games he lost, or the 3 straight duds he dropped against Boston, or how his team went 7 games with the 2008 Celtics, despite him averaging like 18 ppg on 25% shooting in the first four games and turning the ball over 5+ times. You don't go 2 - 2 against one of the ATG teams of your era with those stats, unless you have help.
:roll:

2009 ECF
Mo: 18/4/4 on 51% TS
West: 15/3/4 on 52% TS
Big Z: 10/9 on 49% TS

2010 ECSF
Shaq: 14/5 on 57% TS
Mo: 13/4/6 on 52% TS
Jamison: 12/7 on 49% TS

Those are some MONSTER ass performances right there. Now go cherry pick single games to try to prove your asinine point :oldlol:

[game3524]

The Cavs from 2014-2017 had more then enough talent to win (hence why they were in the finals all those years and won a championship during that span). So LeBron had more then enough talent.

They could have been better if they actually ran an offense that maximized both Kyrie and Love's strengths, while having LeBron be the utility player like Jordan in the early 90's.

[StrongLurk]

Kobe had Shaq yes, but those Laker teams didn't have a lot of depth when they won it. It was Kobe and Shaq carrying the rest of the roster for the most part. The Cavs didn't have "absolute crap", they had deep ass rosters and had the best record in B2B seasons and those guys showed up for Lebron in most big games, but it was him who underperformed and lost.

You can go back and look at the elimination game against Orlando, or the close games he lost, or the 3 straight duds he dropped against Boston, or how his team went 7 games with the 2008 Celtics, despite him averaging like 18 ppg on 25% shooting in the first four games and turning the ball over 5+ times. You don't go 2 - 2 against one of the ATG teams of your era with those stats, unless you have help.

What? Lebron's teams were not "deep", they were average outside of him. And that's nonsense to say his teammates showed up more in big games than he did. You can point to Lebron not playing well against the 08/10 Celtics, but Kobe didn't play well against them for his standards either. You think Lebron's teams would have been the same of he had 96-04 Shaq instead of Big Z?

Honestly you can't say shit about Lebron against Orlando in 09. He put up like 43/8/8 on GREAT efficiency over the first 5 games of that series, including a game winner.

But my point in this thread is not to have a Kobe vs Lebron debate, which you are the one starting this discussion.

I just dont understand how it's so easy for teams nowadays to build stacked teams. Is it more cap space or are there just more talented offensive players in this era? I guess more free agency rights are a factor as well.

[game3524]

As for pre heat Cavs, they were just one guy short. They had the shooters and defenders, but they really needed a legit 2nd option. If Kerr had decided to go through with that Amare trade in 2010, they likely win the title.

[StrongLurk]

The Cavs from 2014-2017 had more then enough talent to win (hence why they were in the finals all those years and won a championship during that span). So LeBron had more then enough talent.

They could have been better if they actually ran an offense that maximized both Kyrie and Love's strengths, while having LeBron be the utility player like Jordan in the early 90's.

Well really, they only had two years to win (2016, 2017). But I'm talking about 2003-2010 Cavs.

[ImKobe]

:roll:

2009 ECF
Mo: 18/4/4 on 51% TS
West: 15/3/4 on 52% TS
Big Z: 10/9 on 49% TS

2010 ECSF
Shaq: 14/5 on 57% TS
Mo: 13/4/6 on 52% TS
Jamison: 12/7 on 49% TS

Those are some MONSTER ass performances right there. Now go cherry pick single games to try to prove your asinine point :oldlol:

All those guys split minutes.. Shaq averaged 14/5 in just 23 mpg.. I love how you're using TS% now, but Shaq was putting up 14 points on 52%FG.. Lebron averaged 21 ppg on 34/15/74 splits with 6.3 TOV in the 3 straight losses after being up 2 - 1, but that's completely on his team and he shares 0 blame, but we'll only highlight Kobe's 6/24 game that same year and disregard his first 6.

Rondo, Pierce & KG simply played better than Lebron for the 2nd half of the series. I would understand your point if Lebron played up to his usual standards and the rest of the team struggled, but he monopolized the ball and took the most shots and was terrible for half the series, you can't get away with that.

Then he goes to Miami and does the same against Dallas by disappearing for 3 straight games.

Lebron simply didn't have it back then. He wasn't a good volume shooter. He could get hot for 1-2 games but he struggled against teams that had the guys to defend him (Boston, San Antonio, Dallas).

[SouBeachTalents]

All those guys split minutes.. Shaq averaged 14/5 in just 23 mpg.. I love how you're using TS% now, but Shaq was putting up 14 points on 52%FG.. Lebron averaged 21 ppg on 34/15/74 splits with 6.3 TOV in the 3 straight losses after being up 2 - 1, but that's completely on his team and he shares 0 blame, but we'll only highlight Kobe's 6/24 game that same year and disregard his first 6.

Rondo, Pierce & KG simply played better than Lebron for the 2nd half of the series. I would understand your point if Lebron played up to his usual standards and the rest of the team struggled, but he monopolized the ball and took the most shots and was terrible for half the series, you can't get away with that.

Then he goes to Miami and does the same against Dallas by disappearing for 3 straight games.

Lebron simply didn't have it back then. He wasn't a good volume shooter. He could get hot for 1-2 games but he struggled against teams that had the guys to defend him (Boston, San Antonio, Dallas).
LeBron absolutely deserves criticism for the end of the Celtics series, he had a WOAT level Game 5 and played below his standards/was shockingly inefficient in every game they lost that series

But you criticizing him for '09 is where we seriously disagree. I know you love cherry picking Game 6, but dude played at super human levels the first 5 games, and to claim it was he who underperformed and was the reason the Cavs lost is laughable

[ImKobe]

LeBron absolutely deserves criticism for the end of the Celtics series, he had a WOAT level Game 5 and played below his standards/was shockingly inefficient in every game they lost that series.

But you criticizing him for '09 is where we seriously disagree. I know you love cherry picking Game 6, but dude played at super human levels the first 5 games, and to claim it was he who underperformed and was the reason for them losing is laughable

I'm just saying, he had enough help on the Cavs, but he wasn't a good enough player to do it on his own back then. 2013-15 Lebron makes the Finals from 08-10 with those rosters.

[egokiller]

Cavs started Lebron out with big Z and when he failed to make the playoffs his first 2 years (unlike MJ who had no all stars to play with), the front office basically said "ok, this guy is not good enough yet..let's bring him up slowly". So it took until 2007 for them to surround him with enough talent to drag his ass to the finals.

[MrFonzworth]

Young players cant develop playing alongside LeBron.

[superduper]

Please help my Bran

[aj1987]

Young players cant develop playing alongside LeBron.
Kyrie has the best season of his career with LeBron. Kuzma and Ingram are as well.


I'm just saying, he had enough help on the Cavs, but he wasn't a good enough player to do it on his own back then. 2013-15 Lebron makes the Finals from 08-10 with those rosters.
He had as much help as Brick had from '05-'07.

[ImKobe]

Kyrie has the best season of his career with LeBron. Kuzma and Ingram are as well.


He had as much help as Brick had from '05-'07.

Kyrie in Boston is playing less minutes and is scoring more efficiently while dishing out a career-high in assists this season :lol

He's never had the PER, WS/48 or BPM that he's been putting up for the past two years in Boston, so your argument is false. If we go Per 36min or 100 poss, he's putting up the best numbers he ever has. TS%, FG%, APG, rebounding, defense, he's better in every statistic.

[StrongLurk]

I feel like no one has answered my OP.

How are so many teams able to surround young, talented players so quickly nowadays?

Some guys are on stacked teams from day one and then their front office adds even more talent.

Sixers are a perfect example.

[MrFonzworth]

Kyrie has the best season of his career with LeBron. Kuzma and Ingram are as well.


He had as much help as Brick had from '05-'07.
Flat out wrong about Kyrie. Ingram and Kuzma are developing because they're isolating themselves away from LeBron. Rondo is their mentor, not LeBron "All About Me" James.

[aj1987]

Kyrie in Boston is playing less minutes and is scoring more efficiently while dishing out a career-high in assists this season :lol

He's never had the PER, WS/48 or BPM that he's been putting up for the past two years in Boston, so your argument is false. If we go Per 36min or 100 poss, he's putting up the best numbers he ever has. TS%, FG%, you name it.
I was obviously talking about him till the '17 season, when he played with LeBron and before that.

Kyrie's best season BEFORE LeBron - 22.5 PPG 3.7 RPG 5.9 APG on 55.3% TS

Kyrie's best season WITH LeBron - 25.2 PPG 3.2 RPG 5.8 APG on 58% TS

Yeah, LeBron CLEARLY hindered Kyrie's growth. ****ing idiots.

[MrFonzworth]

I was obviously talking about him till the '17 season, when he played with LeBron and before that.

Kyrie's best season BEFORE LeBron - 22.5 PPG 3.7 RPG 5.9 APG on 55.3% TS

Kyrie's best season WITH LeBron - 25.2 PPG 3.2 RPG 5.8 APG on 58% TS

Yeah, LeBron CLEARLY hindered Kyrie's growth. ****ing idiots.
That's just a player entering his prime, natural development. If LeBron was the reasom Kyrie grew, his development would've hindered post-LeBron.

Clearly not the case.

[aj1987]

That's just a player entering his prime, natural development. If LeBron was the reasom Kyrie grew, his development would've hindered post-LeBron.

Clearly not the case.
Oh yeah, so I guess Bosh and Love were on their natural decline.


Flat out wrong about Kyrie. Ingram and Kuzma are developing because they're isolating themselves away from LeBron. Rondo is their mentor, not LeBron "All About Me" James.

LeBron:

“It [the relationship] started as soon as I signed, he was the first guy to call me off the team.

“It actually started before that, we’d been talking when I was in Cleveland, he wanted to pick my brain, talk about how he could get better.”

Kuzma:

“I texted him early on [last season] after we played Cleveland [Cavaliers] trying to figure out what he does with his body, how he takes care of it.”

“After the Cavs game, that’s when it really was like, ‘Come on now, this is ridiculous,’ ” Kuzma said. “LeBron, he’s been pointing out a lot of different type of counter moves while we’re in practice, helping me get comfortable doing spin moves or Euros or whatever it might be to switch it up.

“He’s been great ever since he’s been out, whether that’s on the court, practice, sends text messages when we’re on the road. Just, he’s a great teammate, always trying to lend a hand.”

“Of course. With him out, people are looking at me primarily as a scorer, so it’s my job to find those spots, get to those spots. Obviously it’s a little harder with people not looking at LeBron on the court.”

Ingram:

Brandon Ingram, another of the Lakers’ young core, has been getting iPad lessons from LeBron about where to stand and when to cut when the ball isn’t in his hands, or how to elevate over a defender just at the right moment for a jump shot.


Eat shit, dumbass.

[ImKobe]

I was obviously talking about him till the '17 season, when he played with LeBron and before that.

Kyrie's best season BEFORE LeBron - 22.5 PPG 3.7 RPG 5.9 APG on 55.3% TS

Kyrie's best season WITH LeBron - 25.2 PPG 3.2 RPG 5.8 APG on 58% TS

Yeah, LeBron CLEARLY hindered Kyrie's growth. ****ing idiots.

You're the worst troll on this site. No shit that Kyrie improves as a player from his first 3 seasons and having a co-star on his roster, but his numbers were still virtually the same with Lebron. He averaged 22.4/3.1/5.3 in the 3 seasons with Lebron (on 47/39/88 splits), so those are pretty much on par with his 2nd NBA season (22.5/3.7/5.9 on 45/39/86 splits). Not much "growth" there.

Since leaving Lebron, he's averaging 24.1/4.3/5.9 on 49/41/88 splits in 32 mpg. He played 34.6 mpg with Lebron and averaged worse numbers in all categories.

[StrongLurk]

ImKobe hella triggered. Started melting down over a completely different topic...one that he started :wtf:

[aj1987]

You're the worst troll on this site. No shit that Kyrie improves as a player from his first 3 seasons and having a co-star on his roster, but his numbers were still virtually the same with Lebron. He averaged 22.4/3.1/5.3 in the 3 seasons with Lebron (on 47/39/88 splits), so those are pretty much on par with his 2nd NBA season (22.5/3.7/5.9 on 45/39/86 splits). Not much "growth" there.

Since leaving Lebron, he's averaging 24.1/4.3/5.9 on 49/41/88 splits in 32 mpg. He played 34.6 mpg with Lebron and averaged worse numbers in all categories.
I'm the troll? You're comparing 3 seasons with ONE single season, you ****ing retard. Not to mention that he was injured and playing through injuries in one of those seasons.

Kyrie also averaged 23.9 PPG on 46.5/41.5/87.6 in the PO's. Minus that one injured season, Kyrie put up 25.5/2.9/4.9 on 47.2/40.6/89 playing alongside LeBron.

People saying that LeBron hinders player development should be institutionalized.

Come back when you can actually talk basketball. Bringing up freaking JJ Hickson and an ancient Wallace and calling the Cavs stacked... moron.

[ImKobe]

I'm the troll? You're comparing 3 seasons with ONE single season, you ****ing retard. Not to mention that he was injured and playing through injuries in one of those seasons.

Kyrie also averaged 23.9 PPG on 46.5/41.5/87.6 in the PO's. Minus that one injured season, Kyrie put up 25.5/2.9/4.9 on 47.2/40.6/89 playing alongside LeBron.

People saying that LeBron hinders player development should be institutionalized.

Come back when you can actually talk basketball. Bringing up freaking JJ Hickson and an ancient Wallace and calling the Cavs stacked... moron.

Kyrie was constantly injured and missing games without Lebron too, that's nothing new. I don't know why you're using injuries as an excuse, when he played his two healthiest seasons with him.

Point is that he's always had talent, and guys have played better after and before playing with him. It's not 2010. We've seen more evidence since then and there's nothing to argue here really. I can bring up all the good teammates he's had and you'll continue on discrediting them. No one's ever good enough.

[aj1987]

Kyrie was constantly injured and missing games without Lebron too, that's nothing new. I don't know why you're using injuries as an excuse, when he played his two healthiest seasons with him.

Point is that he's always had talent, and guys have played better after and before playing with him. It's not 2010. We've seen more evidence since then and there's nothing to argue here really. I can bring up all the good teammates he's had and you'll continue on discrediting them. No one's ever good enough.
What the **** are you babbling about, dumbass? How does any of what you said have anything to do with LeBron not being able to develop young players or hindering their growth?

[StrongLurk]

Kobe Bryant developed ONE young player in his whole career :lol

So idk why ImKobe is melting down so much.

[ImKobe]

Kobe Bryant developed ONE young player in his whole career :lol

So idk why ImKobe is melting down so much.

And Lebron developed...no one. Irving was the same player without him as he was with him. Other guys (Wade, Bosh, Love, Shaq) all got worse with him.

[tpols]

he had many all star talents ~ larry hughes, big Z, bo0zer, mo-will, antwan jamison, etc. and some of the best rebounding and defensive supporting casts in the league. Playing in the east against gilbert arenas, and dwight. Not that crazy tbh

[aj1987]

And Lebron developed...no one. Irving was the same player without him as he was with him. Other guys (Wade, Bosh, Love, Shaq) all got worse with him.
Kobe destroyed Malone, Payton, Dwight, Artest, Nash, and made Odom almost kill himself. Brick pretty much ended the careers of 4 HOF players.

[ImKobe]

Kobe destroyed Malone, Payton, Dwight, Artest, Nash, and made Odom almost kill himself. Brick pretty much ended the careers of 4 HOF players.

At least come up with some better, more original shit than this. You sound really angry.

[StrongLurk]

At least come up with some better, more original shit than this. You sound really angry.

Ironic post since you are the one who started this conversation :hammerhead:

Lebron developed plenty of young guys.

[3ball]

No one you named is anywhere close to the players I listed in the OP.

Imagine young Lebron playing with Embiid, Reddick, Tobias Harris and Jimmy Butler...LOL.
In the 2000's, a great player didn't need a stacked team to make the Finals out of the East - 5 Finals were made in the 00's with weak casts, including iverson, kidd (2), dwight, and lebron in 07'

And 2009 and 2010 were down years again, yet lebron ceded the Eastern Conference crown to Dwight and an old, 50-win underdog Celtic team.. if these weak teams can make the Finals, what's lebron's excuse with his heavily-favored favored, 60-win, 1 seeds, stacked with decorated vets?

It's not like he's producing more than past greats to achieve those 1 seeds.. 28/8/7 would be the worst stats of young MJ's career, but that yielded lebron 66 wins in 09'. The conference was just dogshit, so numerous teams and players made the Finals that wouldn't have a chance in other decades
.

[ImKobe]

Ironic post since you are the one who started this conversation :hammerhead:

Lebron developed plenty of young guys.

Have yet to hear about one of these supposed guys he personally developed but ok.

[StrongLurk]

Have yet to hear about one of these supposed guys he personally developed but ok.

How come it's easier for teams to surround young, star players with elite talent? Is it because this era simply has more offensive talent, or perhaps something to do with salary caps/free agency?

[Duncan21formvp]

Lebron came to a team with an allstar from the get go in Big Z and then both made it again in 2005. Big Z turned Lebron into a star.

[DukeDelonte13]

it's a different league now. Guys weren't teaming up to play with one another back then.

The first "big 3" in this modern era was the celts if you recall.

Most teams had two stars. Cavs tried and tried to get Lebron another star but it takes two to tango. Teams aren't just gonna give up an all star player for low 1st rounders / seconds and guys like ira newble and damon jones.

[Gileraracer]

Kevin Love, Kyrie Irving, IT, Rose, Wade, Korver, Deron Williams


Damn clearly no talent there! :lol

[aj1987]

At least come up with some better, more original shit than this. You sound really angry.
Did the facts hurt your feelings? I'm not the one melting down, kiddo.