Has anyone beaten weaker opponents in the Finals than MJ?

[And1AllDay]

I really mean this no jokes but has anyone beaten weaker teams than Jordan?


AIDs Magic Lakers
1-star Blazers
Barkley Suns *decent win
6'2.5 Payton
10 ppg Hornacek Jazzercise

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/iItz8ihjh3o/maxresdefault.jpg

Its almost a joke when you break it down. Has anyone beaten weaker opponents in the Finals than MJ? I would say NO

[superduper]

https://i.pinimg.com/474x/af/c4/74/afc47460da88f1a351e67a12a8221bb6--gary-payton-michael-jordan.jpg

[And1AllDay]

https://i.pinimg.com/474x/af/c4/74/afc47460da88f1a351e67a12a8221bb6--gary-payton-michael-jordan.jpg

Edit: 6'2.5" then sheesh

[superduper]

https://www.sltrib.com/resizer/5cAMONDwTBjbt9R-JDUHmAPhLQA=/0x600/smart/filters:quality(86)/arc-anglerfish-arc2-prod-sltrib.s3.amazonaws.com/public/QWO2VP6CSBGMLDBCD5HAN5MMCI.jpg

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/87/34/19/8734193eadf6ea9219da2d2506f81ffb.jpg

https://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/s--rPp2MUxp--/c_scale,f_auto,fl_progressive,q_80,w_800/183a8dg23hhgwjpg.jpg

https://ballershoesdb.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/01/JJ_Barea-Cropped-500x667.jpg

http://media.nola.com/hornets_impact/photo/9676561-large.jpg

https://kottke.org/plus/misc/images/boris.jpg

[And1AllDay]

1st round exit king + weakest Finals wins

Yikes...This is not looking good for someone. Is the truth out now? I think once people stop googling youtube highlight dunks MJ is going to be dissected even more.


https://i.ytimg.com/vi/iItz8ihjh3o/maxresdefault.jpg


What was MJ's best Finals win?

[FKAri]

Whew! Tough one brother. Though I do know that one Kirby Brian LOST to the weakest finals competition ever.

We live in a time line where Kirby with teammates, Karl Malone, prime Shaq, all-star a year earlier GP, and 17/10 Odom all colluded to make Chauncey Billups FMVP. I dunno what kind of payment was involved but Kobe definitely opened his ass for it on and/or off the court.

[Kblaze8855]

Whew! Tough one brother. Though I do know that one Kirby Brian LOST to the weakest finals competition ever.

We live in a time line where Kirby with teammates, Karl Malone, prime Shaq, all-star a year earlier GP, and 17/10 Odom all colluded to make Chauncey Billups FMVP. I dunno what kind of payment was involved but Kobe definitely opened his ass for it on and/or off the court.

Odom was traded for shaq.

[And1AllDay]

Whew! Tough one brother. Though I do know that one Kirby Brian LOST to the weakest finals competition ever.

We live in a time line where Kirby with teammates, Karl Malone, prime Shaq, all-star a year earlier GP, and 17/10 Odom all colluded to make Chauncey Billups FMVP. I dunno what kind of payment was involved but Kobe definitely opened his ass for it on and/or off the court.

Word my brother cant deny the pistons clappin them cheeks

[Nikola_]

Eaastern Conference Finals were the real finals back then a la West 00s

[SouBeachTalents]

Odom was traded for shaq.
Blaze, to try to make legitimate convo out of a troll topic, can you name anyone worse than Shaq, Kobe & Duncan

[FKAri]

Blaze, to try to make legitimate convo out of a troll topic, can you name anyone worse than Shaq, Kobe & Duncan
Ya what a prude. We're discussing grown men playing with a ball no need to get pedantic :facepalm:

[jstern]

The Western Conference has been beating teams that were not good enough to be in the Finals for the past 19 years. Except for some of the Miami Super Teams, like 2011. So just look at the Finals matchups for the past 19 years. (It's really 20, but I don't want to include Knicks. Though Ewing was injured.)

Revisionist history by someone who was probably not even alive in the 90s. In the 90s nobody was saying that these teams were weak. These teams were dominating the league along with the Bulls, and thus they met in the Finals. Yet a moron is wasting his life trying to push a different narrative.

[Real14]

Eaastern Conference Finals were the real finals back then a la West 00s
Yea and these Lebron bitches wanna avoid this fact like the plague. They probably wasn't even boring when the bad boys pistons, Ewing early 90s Knicks and bird's celtics were here :facepalm

['Toine=MVP]

The 2015, 2017, and 2018 Warriors beat a cupcake team. The 2014 Spurs and 2012 Mavericks beat a cupcake team.

And honestly the 2016 Cavs beat a cupcake team too. They lost to the friggin Cavs! That's how bad they were!

[Levity]

when youre the GOAT, everyone and everything looks weaker by comparison

[SouBeachTalents]

when youre the GOAT, everyone and everything looks weaker by comparison
Not the Bad Boy Pistons

[Levity]

Not the Bad Boy Pistons

We'll go ahead and look the other way when discussing that period of time

[And1AllDay]

What was Mikes "best" Finals win? Who was his best ring against? Im curious if any of his rings were better then anything Bron faced


2012 Thunder, 2013 Spurs, 2016 Warriors > All 6 cupcake rings easily

[NBAGOAT]

i gotta disagree with the ECF being the actual finals. That's true like at most 2 years lol. 96 Magic werent in the running once horace got injured. I'm giving some consideration to 98 Pacers but I think majority have Jazz over them. It's most likely just 93 Knicks

[superduper]

What was Mikes "best" Finals win? Who was his best ring against? Im curious if any of his rings were better then anything Bron faced


2012 Thunder, 2013 Spurs, 2016 Warriors > All 6 cupcake rings easily

You know, we all know why you Bran stans only talk about "finals".

It's because deep down even you disgusting trolls know that Bran has faced the weakest competition in the playoffs leading up to the finals of ALL TIME while the GOAT MJ faced amongst the hardest paths to the finals ever.

I know it, you know it, every single Bran stan knows it. It's the reason you guys only bring up one round and ignore the other three.

[Young X]

Basketball didn't exist to you pre-2005 so of course you think Magic Johnson, Clyde Drexler, Charles Barkley, Karl Malone, John Stockton (all top 5 ever at their position) are weak.

Why should anybody respect your opinion anyway? You literally just started watching basketball. **** outta here.

[Uncle Drew]

Can anyone explain why the best team Jordan played in the finals is worse than the worst team LeBron played in the Finals?

[superduper]

Can anyone explain why the best team Jordan played in the finals is worse than the worst team LeBron played in the Finals?

You know, we all know why you Bran stans only talk about "finals".

It's because deep down even you disgusting trolls know that Bran has faced the weakest competition in the playoffs leading up to the finals of ALL TIME while the GOAT MJ faced amongst the hardest paths to the finals ever.

I know it, you know it, every single Bran stan knows it. It's the reason you guys only bring up one round and ignore the other three.

[TheCorporation]

Can anyone explain why the best team Jordan played in the finals is worse than the worst team LeBron played in the Finals?

Of course they cannot and will not.

And even if they brought up the ECF, LeBron's final's competition is still better than anything Jordan ever faced. If anything it's just making their argument even weaker. Come to think of it...

Factual statement: At no point in Jordan's career did he ever beat a team tougher than any of LeBron's three Finals MVP wins.

[3ball]

Golden State

[egokiller]

Has anyone other than OP ever been more insecure and triggered over the fact MJ is GOAT? Does it stem from the fact that he has to hear it on a daily basis how GOAT MJ is only to have to accept that he never witnessed such GOAT level ball? Poor guy is pulling his hair out over this making one insecure thread after another. :oldlol:

The fact is that if MJ was drafted the same year as LeBron, the outcome would be no different. He would still win at least twice as much and LeBron would lose in the finals as many times as MJ won. GOAT level play such as MJ's transcends eras. LeBron couldn't even be the GOAT his own weak era, so he sure as hell wouldn't have been the GOAT when MJ played.

[sportjames23]

https://www.sltrib.com/resizer/5cAMONDwTBjbt9R-JDUHmAPhLQA=/0x600/smart/filters:quality(86)/arc-anglerfish-arc2-prod-sltrib.s3.amazonaws.com/public/QWO2VP6CSBGMLDBCD5HAN5MMCI.jpg

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/87/34/19/8734193eadf6ea9219da2d2506f81ffb.jpg

https://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/s--rPp2MUxp--/c_scale,f_auto,fl_progressive,q_80,w_800/183a8dg23hhgwjpg.jpg

https://ballershoesdb.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/01/JJ_Barea-Cropped-500x667.jpg

http://media.nola.com/hornets_impact/photo/9676561-large.jpg

https://kottke.org/plus/misc/images/boris.jpg


ETHER

[Rico2016]

Of course they cannot and will not.

And even if they brought up the ECF, LeBron's final's competition is still better than anything Jordan ever faced. If anything it's just making their argument even weaker. Come to think of it...

Factual statement: At no point in Jordan's career did he ever beat a team tougher than any of LeBron's three Finals MVP wins.

:eek: :eek:

[SomeBlackDude]

lebron raymone james sr is #2 all time in total finals losses (15-31 record overall) #3 all time in total finals series losses (6 finals) and has lost to 3 of the 10 oldest finals teams of all time.

https://i.postimg.cc/kgrddtmq/oldest-nba-champions.jpg

*it should be noted that he has lost the fmvp award to his direct counterpart on the opposing squad 4x in those record 6 losses (durant 2x, kawhi, iggy) with one of those fmvps coming off the bench. speaking of bench players...















https://media.giphy.com/media/tEG1nF1v7AL8A/giphy.gif

helluva finals career.

:yaohappy:

[Rico2016]

lebron raymone james sr is #2 all time in total finals losses (15-31 record overall) #3 all time in total finals series losses (6 finals) and has lost to 3 of the 10 oldest finals teams of all time.


:yaohappy:

But could he beat 10 ppg #2 options?

[SomeBlackDude]

But could he beat 10 ppg #2 options?

couldn't outscore jason terry coming off the bench.

https://i.postimg.cc/V64DD2Yd/Bron-Terry-Finals.jpg

so i'm gonna guess no, he couldn't.

:yaohappy:

[sportjames23]

couldn't outscore jason terry coming off the bench.

https://i.postimg.cc/V64DD2Yd/Bron-Terry-Finals.jpg

so i'm gonna guess no, he couldn't.

:yaohappy:

Savagery. :pimp:

[andgar923]

lebron raymone james sr is #2 all time in total finals losses (15-31 record overall) #3 all time in total finals series losses (6 finals) and has lost to 3 of the 10 oldest finals teams of all time.

https://i.postimg.cc/kgrddtmq/oldest-nba-champions.jpg

*it should be noted that he has lost the fmvp award to his direct counterpart on the opposing squad 4x in those record 6 losses (durant 2x, kawhi, iggy) with one of those fmvps coming off the bench. speaking of bench players...















https://media.giphy.com/media/tEG1nF1v7AL8A/giphy.gif

helluva finals career.

:yaohappy:

That

[Rico2016]

couldn't outscore jason terry coming off the bench.

https://i.postimg.cc/V64DD2Yd/Bron-Terry-Finals.jpg

so i'm gonna guess no, he couldn't.

:yaohappy:

Okay so then what you're saying is LeBron's opponent #2 option was NOT 10 ppg but 18 ppg.

Are you trying to strengthen the argument? :oldlol: :oldlol:

[TheCorporation]

when youre the GOAT, everyone and everything looks weaker by comparison

Yeah, like the East for 8 years with LeBron?

[Levity]

Yeah, like the East for 8 years with LeBron?

exactly. except for those (many)years the west came in and flexed on him.

[And1AllDay]

exactly. except for those (many)years the west came in and flexed on him.

You make no damn sense bruh

Has anyone beaten weaker opponents in the Finals than MJ?

[3ball]

1st round exit king + weakest Finals wins

Yikes...This is not looking good for someone. Is the truth out now? I think once people stop googling youtube highlight dunks MJ is going to be dissected even more.


https://i.ytimg.com/vi/iItz8ihjh3o/maxresdefault.jpg


What was MJ's best Finals win?
All of MJ's wins except 92' was like beating the equivalent of a Spurs-level team

The Spurs sometimes had higher net efficiency because THEY faced weaker comp than the stacked 90's west - it was 3-4 spurs teams playing each other, hence them taking turns losing to MJ in the Finals.. So MJ would smash the Spurs.. 3-0 in Lebron's shoes

And look at the 2 times MJ faced Duncan in 98' - dominated him, won without pippen.. sure Duncan was only the most prepared rookie ever

[AirBonner]

Anyone?

[dankok8]

Teams MJ Beat in the Finals:

1991 Lakers = 58 wins +6.73 SRS
1992 Blazers = 57 wins +6.94 SRS
1993 Suns = 62 wins + 6.27 SRS
1996 Sonics = 64 wins +7.40 SRS
1997 Jazz = 64 wins +7.97 SRS
1998 Jazz = 62 wins +5.73 SRS

Average: 61.2 wins +6.84 SRS

Teams Lebron Beat in the Finals:

2012 Thunder = 58 wins +6.44 SRS **Wins adjusted to 82 game season.
2013 Spurs = 58 wins +6.67 SRS
2016 Warriors = 73 wins +10.38 SRS
2020 Heat = 49 wins + 2.59 SRS **Wins adjusted to 82 game season.

Average: 59.5 wins +6.51 SRS

[2much_knowledge]

Eaastern Conference Finals were the real finals back then a la West 00s

Bingo. Thats it. Had to deal with Boston, Cleveland, Detroit, New york, Magic, Pacers. All of those team went to the finals except Cavs

[2much_knowledge]

You know, we all know why you Bran stans only talk about "finals".

It's because deep down even you disgusting trolls know that Bran has faced the weakest competition in the playoffs leading up to the finals of ALL TIME while the GOAT MJ faced amongst the hardest paths to the finals ever.

I know it, you know it, every single Bran stan knows it. It's the reason you guys only bring up one round and ignore the other three.

This. /thread

[getting_old]

I really mean this no jokes but has anyone beaten weaker teams than Jordan?


AIDs Magic Lakers
1-star Blazers
Barkley Suns *decent win
6'2.5 Payton
10 ppg Hornacek Jazzercise

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/iItz8ihjh3o/maxresdefault.jpg

Its almost a joke when you break it down. Has anyone beaten weaker opponents in the Finals than MJ? I would say NO


he had to wait for the Bird Celtics and Magic Lakers and Bad Boy Pistons to fall apart before he could get going.

have to admire his patience.

[Spurs m8]

couldn't outscore jason terry coming off the bench.

https://i.postimg.cc/V64DD2Yd/Bron-Terry-Finals.jpg

so i'm gonna guess no, he couldn't.

:yaohappy:

Hahahhahhah

Exactly.

This Dallas cast was weaker than anything MJ ever faced, and Bron couldn't even beat them hahahhaab

Jesus christ, we need to stop putting MJ and Bron in the same sentence...they're multiple tiers apart

[AirBonner]

Hahahhahhah

Exactly.

This Dallas cast was weaker than anything MJ ever faced, and Bron couldn't even beat them hahahhaab

Jesus christ, we need to stop putting MJ and Bron in the same sentence...they're multiple tiers apart
That cast swept prime Kobe and Gasol. Calling them weak is fvxking retarded.

[light]

MJ played during the modern expansion era circa 1988-2004 and benefitted from talent diluted competition.

Who was Clyde Drexler's sidekick?
Who was Patrick Ewing's sidekick?
Who was Charles Barkley's sidekick?
Who was Dominique Wilkin's sidekick?
Who was Reggie Miller's sidekick?

Best player on 1990 Bucks was Ricky Pierce (Bulls first round opponent).
Best player on 1997 Hawks was Mookie Blaylock (Bulls semifinals opponent).
Best player on 1998 Nets was Keith Van Horn (Bulls first round opponent).
Best players on 1998 Hornets were Glenn Rice and Anthony Mason (Bulls semifinals opponent).
Best player on 1992 Cavs was Brad Daugherty (Bulls ECF opponent).

The lack of talent on all of those teams is laughable.

Meanwhile in Cleveland...

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/70/d7/15/70d7156ad34eaaa18375dce485a3eabe.jpg

https://lebronwire.usatoday.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/37/2020/03/gettyimages-74436100.jpg?w=1024&h=576&crop=1

https://cdni0.trtworld.com/w960/h540/q75/34377_20180531USANBAFINALSCLEVELANDCAVALIERSATGOLD ENSTATEWARRIORS_1527834878358.JPG

[Airupthere]

That Celtics Big 3 was so dominant that they won multiple rings. Oh wait, they didnt. They were all past prime by that point.

Bruce Bowen and past it Horry for the Spurs? They had good chemistry, lineup wise, they weren't a giant.

The only legit team he faced was GSW with KD. But then he lost to them anyway and HOU took them deeper. And had an easy time going to the finals for a number of years. Who were his challengers in the East then? Hawks with Horford? Game 7 with rookie Tatum and Kyrie less Celtics?

[2much_knowledge]

MJ played during the modern expansion era circa 1988-2004 and benefitted from talent diluted competition.

Who was Clyde Drexler's sidekick?
Who was Patrick Ewing's sidekick?
Who was Charles Barkley's sidekick?
Who was Dominique Wilkin's sidekick?
Who was Reggie Miller's sidekick?

Best player on 1990 Bucks was Ricky Pierce (Bulls first round opponent).
Best player on 1997 Hawks was Mookie Blaylock (Bulls semifinals opponent).
Best player on 1998 Nets was Keith Van Horn (Bulls first round opponent).
Best players on 1998 Hornets were Glenn Rice and Anthony Mason (Bulls semifinals opponent).
Best player on 1992 Cavs was Brad Daugherty (Bulls ECF opponent).

The lack of talent on all of those teams is laughable.

Meanwhile in Cleveland...

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/70/d7/15/70d7156ad34eaaa18375dce485a3eabe.jpg

https://lebronwire.usatoday.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/37/2020/03/gettyimages-74436100.jpg?w=1024&h=576&crop=1

https://cdni0.trtworld.com/w960/h540/q75/34377_20180531USANBAFINALSCLEVELANDCAVALIERSATGOLD ENSTATEWARRIORS_1527834878358.JPG

What a coincidence that the expansion era ended in 2004 hahaha.

Clyde's sidekick was Terry porter + Duckworth/williams/drazen
Patrick's sidekick was John Starks/mason/walker/oakley/Xavier
Barkley's sidekick was Kevin/majerley
Wilkins had a bad team
Reggie's sidekick was Rikk smith/davis bros/byron/mark jackson

Best player in 1997 hawks was Mutombo fool
Best player in 1992 Cavs was Marc Price

You know nothing pre mid 00s. It shows

[Chest Rockwell]

5 of Jordan’s 6 finals opponents either sported the very best record in the entire NBA or the 2nd best record in the entire league behind only Jordan’s Bulls. And the one finals opponent Jordan faced who didn’t sport either the best or second best record in the league, the ‘91 Lakers...yeah, they had the 3rd best record in the league.

All told, Jordan faced the #1 seed in the western conference in each of his last 5 title runs. Amongst his finals competition, he faced two 64 win squads, two 62 win squads, a 58 win team and - the “worst” of the bunch - a 57 win, five-time world champion Magic Johnson lead Lakers squad.

And for an added bonus, for exactly half of Jordan’s titles, he took down three separate 60+ win squads out east in the ECF (1993 NY Knicks, 1996 Orlando Magic - Shaq & Penny, 1997 Miami Heat), before taking down a pair of 64 win western conf teams and a 62 win squad, respectively in the finals those seasons. And the other half the time when Jordan wasn’t squaring off (and actually, ya’know, beating) in back to back series against 60+ win opponents in successive rounds in the the ECF and finals, he dealt with the extraordinarily deep, 58 win 1998 Indiana Pacers (3rd best record in the NBA), a 57 win Cleveland Cavs team in ‘92 (tied for 2nd best record in the NBA), and the two-time, back to back defending NBA world champion, 50 win, 1991 Detroit Pistons, who’s core was still very much in their prime (Dumars, Rodman, Isaiah aged 28, 29, 30 respectively at the time)

Michael Jordan’s NBA finals competition....

1991: #3 seed Los Angeles Lakers (58-24). 2nd best record in the west, 3rd best in the league), lead by 31 yr old Magic Johnson (2nd in MVP voting in ‘91 to Jordan, and league MVP in both ‘89 & ‘90), and HOFer James Worthy, aged 30 at the time.

1992: #1 seed Portland Trail Blazers (57-25). #1 team in the west, 2nd best record in the NBA, behind only Jordan’s Bulls. Lead by all-timer Clyde Drexler and a deep cast of high-end, battle tested veterans, such as Terry Porter, Clifford Robinson, Kevin Duckworth, Buck Williams, Danny Ainge, et al.

1993: #1 seed Phoenix Suns (62-20). Best record in the NBA. Lead by ‘93 league MVP Charles Barkley, along with strong supporting cast inclusive of Kevin Johnson, Dan Marleje, Danny Ainge (again) and young, athletic Richard Dumas

1996: #1 seed Seattle SuperSonics (64-19). Best in the west and 2nd best record in the league behind Jordan’s 72 win Bulls. A defensive juggernaut Sonics team, lead by magnificent duo Sean Kemp and Gary Payton, supported by a bevy of talented veterans, such as Detlef Schrempf, Hersey Hawkins, and Sam Parkins.

1997: #1 seed Utah Jazz (64-18). Best in the west and 2nd best record in the league behind Jordan’s 69 win Bulls. Lead by hall of fame duo Karl Malone (who was egregiously voted ‘97 league MVP) and John Stockton. Supplemental scoring from super solid Jeff Hornacek. Further supported by a well chemistried, well-developed, veteran savvy squad of perfectly fitting role players; a squad who played excellent team defense.

1998: #1 seed Utah (62-20). Tied with Bulls for best record in the league. Same squad the Bulls faced the year before.

[2much_knowledge]

5 of Jordan’s 6 finals opponents either sported the very best record in the entire NBA or the 2nd best record in the entire league behind only Jordan’s Bulls. And the one finals opponent Jordan faced who didn’t sport either the best or second best record in the league, the ‘91 Lakers...yeah, they had the 3rd best record in the league.

All told, Jordan faced the #1 seed in the western conference in each of his last 5 title runs. Amongst his finals competition, he faced two 64 win squads, two 62 win squads, a 58 win team and - the “worst” of the bunch - a 57 win, five-time world champion Magic Johnson lead Lakers squad.

And for an added bonus, for exactly half of Jordan’s titles, he took down three separate 60+ win squads out east in the ECF (1993 NY Knicks, 1996 Orlando Magic - Shaq & Penny, 1997 Miami Heat), before taking down a pair of 64 win western conf teams and a 62 win squad, respectively in the finals those seasons. And the other half the time when Jordan wasn’t squaring off (and actually, ya’know, beating) in back to back series against 60+ win opponents in successive rounds in the the ECF and finals, he dealt with the extraordinarily deep, 58 win 1998 Indiana Pacers (3rd best record in the NBA), a 57 win Cleveland Cavs team in ‘92 (tied for 2nd best record in the NBA), and the two-time, back to back defending NBA world champion, 50 win, 1991 Detroit Pistons, who’s core was still very much in their prime (Dumars, Rodman, Isaiah aged 28, 29, 30 respectively at the time)

Michael Jordan’s NBA finals competition....

1991: #3 seed Los Angeles Lakers (58-24). 2nd best record in the west, 3rd best in the league), lead by 31 yr old Magic Johnson (2nd in MVP voting in ‘91 to Jordan, and league MVP in both ‘89 & ‘90), and HOFer James Worthy, aged 30 at the time.

1992: #1 seed Portland Trail Blazers (57-25). #1 team in the west, 2nd best record in the NBA, behind only Jordan’s Bulls. Lead by all-timer Clyde Drexler and a deep cast of high-end, battle tested veterans, such as Terry Porter, Clifford Robinson, Kevin Duckworth, Buck Williams, Danny Ainge, et al.

1993: #1 seed Phoenix Suns (62-20). Best record in the NBA. Lead by ‘93 league MVP Charles Barkley, along with strong supporting cast inclusive of Kevin Johnson, Dan Marleje, Danny Ainge (again) and young, athletic Richard Dumas

1996: #1 seed Seattle SuperSonics (64-19). Best in the west and 2nd best record in the league behind Jordan’s 72 win Bulls. A defensive juggernaut Sonics team, lead by magnificent duo Sean Kemp and Gary Payton, supported by a bevy of talented veterans, such as Detlef Schrempf, Hersey Hawkins, and Sam Parkins.

1997: #1 seed Utah Jazz (64-18). Best in the west and 2nd best record in the league behind Jordan’s 69 win Bulls. Lead by hall of fame duo Karl Malone (who was egregiously voted ‘97 league MVP) and John Stockton. Supplemental scoring from super solid Jeff Hornacek. Further supported by a well chemistried, well-developed, veteran savvy squad of perfectly fitting role players; a squad who played excellent team defense.

1998: #1 seed Utah (62-20). Tied with Bulls for best record in the league. Same squad the Bulls faced the year before.

So refreshing to see when someone comes with actual facts and not thier ignorant dumb opinions

[dankok8]

Teams MJ Beat in the Finals:

1991 Lakers = 58 wins +6.73 SRS
1992 Blazers = 57 wins +6.94 SRS
1993 Suns = 62 wins + 6.27 SRS
1996 Sonics = 64 wins +7.40 SRS
1997 Jazz = 64 wins +7.97 SRS
1998 Jazz = 62 wins +5.73 SRS

Average: 61.2 wins +6.84 SRS

Teams Lebron Beat in the Finals:

2012 Thunder = 58 wins +6.44 SRS **Wins adjusted to 82 game season.
2013 Spurs = 58 wins +6.67 SRS
2016 Warriors = 73 wins +10.38 SRS
2020 Heat = 49 wins + 2.59 SRS **Wins adjusted to 82 game season.

Average: 59.5 wins +6.51 SRS

[SATAN]

LeBron would have at least ten peated in the same scenario

[Axe]

MJ played during the modern expansion era circa 1988-2004 and benefitted from talent diluted competition.

Who was Clyde Drexler's sidekick?
Who was Patrick Ewing's sidekick?
Who was Charles Barkley's sidekick?
Who was Dominique Wilkin's sidekick?
Who was Reggie Miller's sidekick?

Best player on 1990 Bucks was Ricky Pierce (Bulls first round opponent).
Best player on 1997 Hawks was Mookie Blaylock (Bulls semifinals opponent).
Best player on 1998 Nets was Keith Van Horn (Bulls first round opponent).
Best players on 1998 Hornets were Glenn Rice and Anthony Mason (Bulls semifinals opponent).
Best player on 1992 Cavs was Brad Daugherty (Bulls ECF opponent).

The lack of talent on all of those teams is laughable.

Meanwhile in Cleveland...

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/70/d7/15/70d7156ad34eaaa18375dce485a3eabe.jpg

https://lebronwire.usatoday.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/37/2020/03/gettyimages-74436100.jpg?w=1024&h=576&crop=1

https://cdni0.trtworld.com/w960/h540/q75/34377_20180531USANBAFINALSCLEVELANDCAVALIERSATGOLD ENSTATEWARRIORS_1527834878358.JPG
Wow. Nice avy. :applause:

Is that 'He Who Must Not Be Named'? :rolleyes:

[2much_knowledge]

Teams MJ Beat in the Finals:

1991 Lakers = 58 wins +6.73 SRS
1992 Blazers = 57 wins +6.94 SRS
1993 Suns = 62 wins + 6.27 SRS
1996 Sonics = 64 wins +7.40 SRS
1997 Jazz = 64 wins +7.97 SRS
1998 Jazz = 62 wins +5.73 SRS

Average: 61.2 wins +6.84 SRS

Teams Lebron Beat in the Finals:

2012 Thunder = 58 wins +6.44 SRS **Wins adjusted to 82 game season.
2013 Spurs = 58 wins +6.67 SRS
2016 Warriors = 73 wins +10.38 SRS
2020 Heat = 49 wins + 2.59 SRS **Wins adjusted to 82 game season.

Average: 59.5 wins +6.51 SRS

Devastating , what a slow burn. But remember, they give credit for just showing up and facing them. Not by beating them lol. Extra credit for 2 sweeps and two 4 -1 s

So silly

[HoopsNY]

The Lakers in 1991 beat a Portland team that had 3 All-Stars, and had 3 HOF'ers on their roster themselves. That Portland team won 63 games and had an SRS of 8.47. That Lakers team ended up losing to the Bulls in the finals.

The Bulls in that same season beat a Detroit team that had 3 HOF'ers in Rodman, Thomas, and Dumars.

Chicago on two separate occasions beat a Cleveland team that had 3 All-Stars, and had 4 All-Star caliber players if you include Harper. Harper never saw such a selection, but he was a very athletic and legitimate 20/5/5 player.

In 1993, they beat a Phoenix team that had a better record with a handicapped Pippen, against a team that had the MVP.

In 1995 Chicago beat a Hornets team that had Zo-LJ-Hawkins. People see Hersey Hawkins and think he was some slouch for averaging 14 PPG on 62% TS%, but they forget that he was the 3rd option on that team as opposed to the previous season where he was a main guy in Philly.

Hawkins in the previous 4 seasons put up 20 PPG. He was a legitimate threat from the outside and was a solid scorer. Today's fans don't understand that because they don't understand that players fit roles in those days. They weren't stat obsessed like Bran and his fans are today.

In 1996 Chicago beat a 64 win Seattle team that had 3 All-Star level players. Schrempf was an All-Star in 1995 and 1997. In 1996 he started off the season with a bang, but ended up getting injured and missing a month, killing any All-Star selection chances. Schrempf started the '96 season averaging 19/5/4 on 63% TS%.

Schrempf gets no respect, but he was an All-NBA level player in those years and was a great shooter. Seattle had Hersey Hawkins as their 4th best player and one of the strongest defenses in the league.

Utah defeated a Houston team with Barkley-Hakeem-Clyde, a Spurs team with Duncan and Robinson, and a Lakers team with 4 All-Stars They even swept LA. And Chicago defeated that Utah team in the finals, twice.

And Utah's record against San Antonio and LA in those two playoff years? 12-2. But they never mention this point and this level of dominance over those teams. I wonder why? :lol

MJ faced great competition. These arguments that Bran stans use have been debunked over and over again. And as usual, they have no responses to them.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

When you include the 14 Spurs and 17/18 Dubs, think its pretty obvious Bron faced tougher finals comp.

Having to go through Curry/Durant/Klay/Draymond is ridiculous and at the time was unfairly stacked. So its not a knock on MJ, who you could also argue played with less talent than Bron overall. And underachieved less often.

[Bronbron23]

This shit definitely didn't age well. A year after bron beats what's probably the worst finals opponent ever.

[2much_knowledge]

When you include the 14 Spurs and 17/18 Dubs, think its pretty obvious Bron faced tougher finals comp.

Having to go through Curry/Durant/Klay/Draymond is ridiculous and at the time was unfairly stacked. So its not a knock on MJ, who you could also argue played with less talent than Bron overall. And underachieved less often.

100% correct. However, the thread says beaten. Between facing and beating theres a big gap. Nice impartial post

[HoopsNY]

When you include the 14 Spurs and 17/18 Dubs, think its pretty obvious Bron faced tougher finals comp.

Having to go through Curry/Durant/Klay/Draymond is ridiculous and at the time was unfairly stacked. So its not a knock on MJ, who you could also argue played with less talent than Bron overall. And underachieved less often.

Tougher finals competition? Sure. Though I wouldn't include the 2014 Spurs in that group. In addition, Cleveland lost to the 2017 and 2018 Warriors, and MJ lost to the '86 and '87 Celtics. The '86 Celtics are a top 5 team of all time (my #1 team of all time), and comparable to the 2017 Warriors. It's just that MJ played in the same conference as them.

[TheGoatest]

https://i.redd.it/g7vmn1o505r01.jpg

And these are just the numbers/empirical evidence.
What's even worse about Jordan's opponents is the context of any of them not being to exploit the two seasons in the 90s the Bulls didn't win, and they didn't have to face the Almighty, scary Jordan. And even worse than that is knowing that one of these seasons was won by Hakeem + the worst championship supporting cast of all time. And the other chip was won by a 6th seed team, the lowest seed ever to win a championship.

[dankok8]

The Lakers in 1991 beat a Portland team that had 3 All-Stars, and had 3 HOF'ers on their roster themselves. That Portland team won 63 games and had an SRS of 8.47. That Lakers team ended up losing to the Bulls in the finals.

The Bulls in that same season beat a Detroit team that had 3 HOF'ers in Rodman, Thomas, and Dumars.

Chicago on two separate occasions beat a Cleveland team that had 3 All-Stars, and had 4 All-Star caliber players if you include Harper. Harper never saw such a selection, but he was a very athletic and legitimate 20/5/5 player.

In 1993, they beat a Phoenix team that had a better record with a handicapped Pippen, against a team that had the MVP.

In 1995 Chicago beat a Hornets team that had Zo-LJ-Hawkins. People see Hersey Hawkins and think he was some slouch for averaging 14 PPG on 62% TS%, but they forget that he was the 3rd option on that team as opposed to the previous season where he was a main guy in Philly.

Hawkins in the previous 4 seasons put up 20 PPG. He was a legitimate threat from the outside and was a solid scorer. Today's fans don't understand that because they don't understand that players fit roles in those days. They weren't stat obsessed like Bran and his fans are today.

In 1996 Chicago beat a 64 win Seattle team that had 3 All-Star level players. Schrempf was an All-Star in 1995 and 1997. In 1996 he started off the season with a bang, but ended up getting injured and missing a month, killing any All-Star selection chances. Schrempf started the '96 season averaging 19/5/4 on 63% TS%.

Schrempf gets no respect, but he was an All-NBA level player in those years and was a great shooter. Seattle had Hersey Hawkins as their 4th best player and one of the strongest defenses in the league.

Utah defeated a Houston team with Barkley-Hakeem-Clyde, a Spurs team with Duncan and Robinson, and a Lakers team with 4 All-Stars They even swept LA. And Chicago defeated that Utah team in the finals, twice.

And Utah's record against San Antonio and LA in those two playoff years? 12-2. But they never mention this point and this level of dominance over those teams. I wonder why? :lol

MJ faced great competition. These arguments that Bran stans use have been debunked over and over again. And as usual, they have no responses to them.

This pretty much ended the thread. Brutal!

Anyways not sure why Lebron stans are always bringing up teams Lebron lost to. I thought the debate is who BEAT better teams.

[Axe]

This shit definitely didn't age well. A year after bron beats what's probably the worst finals opponent ever.
Fluke conference title for south beach

[warriorfan]

Has anyone lost to weaker opponents in the Finals than LeBron? Jason Terry...