IMF is discussing negative interest rates....

[Ben Simmons 25]

https://blogs.imf.org/2019/02/05/cashing-in-how-to-make-negative-interest-rates-work/

Holy ****ing shit.


How low can you go?

In a cashless world, there would be no lower bound on interest rates. A central bank could reduce the policy rate from, say, 2 percent to minus 4 percent to counter a severe recession. The interest rate cut would transmit to bank deposits, loans, and bonds. Without cash, depositors would have to pay the negative interest rate to keep their money with the bank, making consumption and investment more attractive. This would jolt lending, boost demand, and stimulate the economy.

[bladefd]

How does negative interest rate even work? Has it ever been implemented?

[warriorfan]

it

[Real Men Wear Green]

We are told to save as kids and have grown up to discover that savings accounts are useless (if yours gets over 2% it's actually great). I may not teach my kids anything about investments and markets because the only thing I feel sure of is that they're all highly untrustworthy. You have these "honest" banks that merely give you shit returns and then you have groups like Wells Fargo that defraud investors of billions and then get a tax break bigger than their fine for it, the Enrons and Madoffs of the world out there to rob you when you think they'll make you rich. Economics either isn't a science or it's a secret science that will never be taught to the general public. The only investments I feel like I can trust are the businesses (often just side hustles) started by myself and/or people I know well. If I put 10Gs in the stock market someone may make another 10Gs off of it but I bet it won't be me.

[egokiller]

Wells Fargo was fined 1 billion yet the tax cut boosted their profits by $3.7 billion.

[Akrazotile]

Wells Fargo was fined 1 billion yet the tax cut boosted their profits by $3.7 billion.


A bunch of apathetic sheep consumers decide to continue using a bank that was caught red handed ripping customers off, but it

[Loco 50]

A bunch of apathetic sheep consumers decide to continue using a bank that was caught red handed ripping customers off, but it’s Donald Trump’s fault the bank made a profit.

Yeah. I guess I should have figured.

I had an account there and I closed it, but hey. I guess expecting just a little bit of brains, or balls, or some combination of both from the public herd is asking way too much.

Just blame it on Trump. :confusedshrug:
Probably the first and last thing we'll ever agree on.

Anyone that continues to bank with Wells, Chase, BoA, etc are complicit in this corruption.

They used your money to invest in high risk assets overseas. Then when those assets went bust, they cried too big to fail and their asses were bailed out by American taxpayers. It's damn nice to gamble with money that isn't yours and you hold no responsibility over.

How the f they didn't get strung up over that I have no idea...

because millions couldn't inconvenience themselves to change banks? :mad: :mad:

[Akrazotile]

Probably the first and last thing we'll ever agree on.

Anyone that continues to bank with Wells, Chase, BoA, etc are complicit in this corruption.

They used your money to invest in high risk assets overseas. Then when those assets went bust, they cried too big to fail and their asses were bailed out by American taxpayers. It's damn nice to gamble with money that isn't yours and you hold no responsibility over.

How the f they didn't get strung up over that I have no idea...

because millions couldn't inconvenience themselves to change banks? :mad: :mad:


Wait... do you not understand how a bank works?

I was referring to Wells Fargos account-opening scandal.

All banks invest the money you deposit. Otherwise how are they gonna pay employees? If they start charging for checking accounts people will (and did) cry foul over having to actually pay for a service theyre using :lol

Do you think banks should simply operate free of charge, or...??? If they did youd be complaining they dont pay employees enough :lol

Also... “must be nice to gamble with other people’s money”???

Everything Ive ever heard you say suggests your core political value is “other people’s money.”

[Hawker]

[QUOTE=Akrazotile]A bunch of apathetic sheep consumers decide to continue using a bank that was caught red handed ripping customers off, but it

[Akrazotile]

I switched to a credit union.


:rockon:

[Loco 50]

Wait... do you not understand how a bank works?

I was referring to Wells Fargos account-opening scandal.

All banks invest the money you deposit. Otherwise how are they gonna pay employees? If they start charging for checking accounts people will (and did) cry foul over having to actually pay for a service theyre using :lol

Do you think banks should simply operate free of charge, or...??? If they did youd be complaining they dont pay employees enough :lol

Also... “must be nice to gamble with other people’s money”???

Everything Ive ever heard you say suggests your core political value is “other people’s money.”
They should not have even survived the scandal I referenced to get to this second scandal.

Of course banks put money invested back into circulation.

What you don't do is put that money in investments that are flashing all kinds of warning signals that the investments are high risk, throwing caution to the wind because you know you have taxpayers to foot the bill because "too big to fail."

https://www.forbes.com/sites/mikecollins/2015/07/14/the-big-bank-bailout/

Legislation meant to protect citizens like Glass Stiegal and the Dodd-Frank act repeatedly chipped away and weakened by corrupt politicians including the current idiot in chief.




Everything Ive ever heard you say suggests your core political value is “other people’s money.”
You've no idea what my core political value is except what you've incorrectly assigned me. I abhor ignorance and corruption. That's the bottom line.

[Loco 50]

I switched to a credit union.
If only more people had done the same.

[Akrazotile]

They should not have even survived the scandal I referenced to get to this second scandal.

Of course banks put money invested back into circulation.

What you don't do is put that money in investments that are flashing all kinds of warning signals that the investments are high risk, throwing caution to the wind because you know you have taxpayers to foot the bill because "too big to fail."

https://www.forbes.com/sites/mikecollins/2015/07/14/the-big-bank-bailout/

Legislation meant to protect citizens like Glass Stiegal and the Dodd-Frank act repeatedly chipped away and weakened by corrupt politicians including the current idiot in chief.





The banks Im sure MUCH prefer those regulations as a token consequence than the deterrent effect a refusal to bail them out would have had.

Remind me, did the previous idiot in chief support the bailout?

[Akrazotile]

throwing caution to the wind because you know you have taxpayers to foot the bill because "too big to fail."


Btw do you think people will be more or less accountable for their health if they know the taxpayers are ready to foot an enormously inflated bill any time they get a boo boo.


Problem is your “logic” is never consistent. You only apply it selectively when it benefits YOU (other peoples money for YOUR health) but not when it’s for someone else (wont pay 60% of YOUR taxes to shelter the homeless, or bail out some banker who needs his job.)

Youre a fraud who has just memorized trendy phrases that appeal to people who want more from society than theyre worth. Theres a lot of those people in society. Theyre called leftists. And the rhetoric is disguised as “social justice”, when it’s actually a soft con to get more than theyve earned, more than theyve contributed. It’s basically a loser’s union collectively scheming for bloated benefits. But just like with a business, if you give out too much to people who are slacking off, the whole thing will collapse. It doesnt work in the long run.

Not that you care. Youre selfish. You want your undeserved handouts NOW.

[Loco 50]

The banks Im sure MUCH prefer those regulations as a token consequence than the deterrent effect a refusal to bail them out would have had.

Remind me, did the previous idiot in chief support the bailout?
:lol The banks lobbied politicians to repeal these CONSUMER protection laws so they could make whatever investments they desired no matter how risky, because they knew they had taxpayer money to fall back on should those investments go sour.

Why do you attempt to politicize this? Both parties are complicit. Both. The imbecile in office just happens to be the guy currently doing it, while his "sheep" await the "draining of the swamp." How? By overflowing the mf'er?

"Banks prefer regulations"..........:wtf: are you even talking about? What bank has EVER argued for more legal restraint.

[Akrazotile]

:lol The banks lobbied politicians to repeal these CONSUMER protection laws so they could make whatever investments they desired no matter how risky, because they knew they had taxpayer money to fall back on should those investments go sour.

Why do you attempt to politicize this? Both parties are complicit. Both. The imbecile in office just happens to be the guy currently doing it, while his "sheep" await the "draining of the swamp." How? By overflowing the mf'er?

"Banks prefer regulations"..........:wtf: are you even talking about? What bank has EVER argued for more legal restraint.

Please dont dodge.

You and I both agree they shouldnt have been bailed out, right?

I didnt say banks WANT regulation, I said they would happily PREFER bailout + a few regulations than no bail out and no regulations.

Youre calling trump an idiot and an imbicile for repealing regulations.

What does that make Obama for supporting the bail out?

Im just asking because youre taking personal, specific shots at Trump on this issue. Not politicians or the government in a broad sense but specifically The Bad Orange Man.

Do you have the balls to do the same to Obama? You JUST SAID bailing the banks out was an act of corruption. Obama endorsed it.

Your thoughts?

[Loco 50]

Btw do you think people will be more or less accountable for their health if they know the taxpayers are ready to foot an enormously inflated bill any time they get a boo boo.

Talking out of your ass again. Patients do not see doctors until it is often too late. They are relegated to emergency room visits because we are forced to treat them. They don't and can't come to the doctor for a "boo boo." Only a selfish, out of touch, entitled piece of garbage would think otherwise.

[QUOTE=Akrazotile]
Problem is your

[Loco 50]

Please dont dodge.

You and I both agree they shouldnt have been bailed out, right?

I didnt say banks WANT regulation, I said they would happily PREFER bailout + a few regulations than no bail out and no regulations.

Youre calling trump an idiot and an imbicile for repealing regulations.

What does that make Obama for supporting the bail out?

Im just asking because youre taking personal, specific shots at Trump on this issue. Not politicians or the government in a broad sense but specifically The Bad Orange Man.

Do you have the balls to do the same to Obama? You JUST SAID bailing the banks out was an act of corruption. Obama endorsed it.

Your thoughts?
Once again, you're done. I'm no Obama fanboy, you're barking up the wrong tree.

[Akrazotile]

Once again, you're done. I'm no Obama fanboy, you're barking up the wrong tree.


So you think he

[Akrazotile]

This guy always ends the convo and runs away as SOON as his own inconsistencies get brought up.

Shameless.

[Hawker]

They should not have even survived the scandal I referenced to get to this second scandal.

Of course banks put money invested back into circulation.

What you don't do is put that money in investments that are flashing all kinds of warning signals that the investments are high risk, throwing caution to the wind because you know you have taxpayers to foot the bill because "too big to fail."

https://www.forbes.com/sites/mikecollins/2015/07/14/the-big-bank-bailout/

Legislation meant to protect citizens like Glass Stiegal and the Dodd-Frank act repeatedly chipped away and weakened by corrupt politicians including the current idiot in chief.


You've no idea what my core political value is except what you've incorrectly assigned me. I abhor ignorance and corruption. That's the bottom line.

What use to be the "signal" for this would be naturally high interest rates but because the federal reserve and other banks across the world, rates are artificially lowered which lures people to bad investments who didn't realize they were bad investments in the first place.

Dodd-Frank Act was a bogus act meant to console power into multi-nationals. It pulled It created an authoritarian government agency called the CFPB that answered to NOBODY. It got its funding directly from the federal reserve. That's been starting to change now and Elizabeth Warren (who was warned by consertavies and libertarians that democrats may not have power forever) bitched and complained about it.

Trump dismantling the act and the executive actions that complemented it is one of the best things about his presidency.

[tpols]

A bunch of apathetic sheep consumers decide to continue using a bank that was caught red handed ripping customers off, but it’s Donald Trump’s fault the bank made a profit.

Yeah. I guess I should have figured.

I had an account there and I closed it, but hey. I guess expecting just a little bit of brains, or balls, or some combination of both from the public herd is asking way too much.

Just blame it on Trump. :confusedshrug:


thats why you cant just rely on a herd of people boycotting to stop fraud... there has to be legit government intervention in these matters, but shit is weak so they always skate. this is why i laugh when blaze says everybody earned whatever their worth. sooo many out there robbing, USA stock brokers and big banks rob the entire world, collapse entire economies for short term gain.

[tpols]

I switched to a credit union.


Unions??!

thats... evil

:biggums:

[Akrazotile]

thats why you cant just rely on a herd of people boycotting to stop fraud... [/B]there has to be legit government intervention in these matters, but shit is weak so they always skate. this is why i laugh when blaze says everybody earned whatever their worth. sooo many out there robbing, USA stock brokers and big banks rob the entire world, collapse entire economies for short term gain.


This is your fault as much as theirs, because you play the game.

You dont walk away. You dont withhold your business. You dont create or use any alternatives. In fact you lampoon me for doing such things.

Instead you shop with all the big boys, you vote for their puppets, and you even go to college so you can work your way up the very same corporate ladder YOU complain about.

You choose to play the game, you only complain about it because youre not good enough to win.

If you cant win, dont play. You and every other socialist phony have that option. You could create your own communities and do everything JUST as you say. No competition, no winners or losers. You can do whatever you want, that’s the beauty of the free market. But you DONT do it.

Instead you choose to play the game, and only complain because youre losing.

[tpols]

[QUOTE=Akrazotile]This is your fault as much as theirs, because you play the game.

You dont walk away. You dont withhold your business. You dont create or use any alternatives. In fact you lampoon me for doing such things.

Instead you shop with all the big boys, you vote for their puppets, and you even go to college so you can work your way up the very same corporate ladder YOU complain about.

You choose to play the game, you only complain about it because youre not good enough to win.

If you cant win, dont play. You and every other socialist phony have that option. You could create your own communities and do everything JUST as you say. No competition, no winners or losers. You can do whatever you want, that

[Proctor]

This guy always ends the convo and runs away as SOON as his own inconsistencies get brought up.

Shameless.
If you're bored enough to keep prodding for a debate you already lost, maybe you can bless us with another Lebron thread on your Walk on Water account instead. Shake it up a little bit.

[Akrazotile]

If you're bored enough to keep prodding for a debate you already lost, maybe you can bless us with another Lebron thread on your Walk on Water account instead. Shake it up a little bit.

:wtf:

You couldnt have just said all this from your Loco account, instead of switching to pretend there are more people on your

[Kblaze8855]

We are told to save as kids and have grown up to discover that savings accounts are useless (if yours gets over 2% it's actually great). I may not teach my kids anything about investments and markets because the only thing I feel sure of is that they're all highly untrustworthy. You have these "honest" banks that merely give you shit returns and then you have groups like Wells Fargo that defraud investors of billions and then get a tax break bigger than their fine for it, the Enrons and Madoffs of the world out there to rob you when you think they'll make you rich. Economics either isn't a science or it's a secret science that will never be taught to the general public. The only investments I feel like I can trust are the businesses (often just side hustles) started by myself and/or people I know well. If I put 10Gs in the stock market someone may make another 10Gs off of it but I bet it won't be me.

You just cant think that short term about it.

Long term most of the true giants will be stable or go up. I know a guy who has been buying pepsi and disney stock forever. Gave it to his kids in accounts set aside for them along with their birthday presents. Disney way back in the day and pepsi in maybe the early 80s.

Hes made a fortune. Only one of his kids was dumb enough to touch it and he lost out on hundreds of thousands pulling disney during the recession. Disney was like 15-20 bucks 10 years ago and now its 120.

You get in on the real monsters of each industry? Disney...apple...home depot....the bigger banks. You stick it out and never panic when it looks bad you will almost always win long term. I know a guy with over a million in home depot stock because its split so many times since the 80s. Apple dropped a lot but like I said...think long. Remember in Forest Gump he got rich off apple? Apples stock was like 1.50 in 1994. If you didnt even get it then and waited to buy it after the Iphone took over the world?

Even waiting that late...after the Imac, Ipod, and so on...you still make 25 times what you put in. If you didnt buy Amazon till 2010....you still make over 10 times what you put in. Walmart was already one of the biggest companies in the world 20-25 years ago. Stock has still gone through the roof compared to then.

You dont have to get that lucky with tiny no name companies you catch by a fluke or great research.

Put money into even popular companies and you get paid if you have patience.

The Pepsi/Disney guy taught me that lesson long ago. He told me he just picked two things he knew wouldnt go out of business and stuck with it

Ive not seen him in years but at that point hed never touched any of it. He was a trailer park land lord sitting on millions in stock just to give to his kids and now grand kids. It just doesnt work with people who really need the money or dont have the long term mentality.

Which is why I only made pocket change off Citibanks comeback and a poster from the old Ezboard days who told me to put all I had into it and wait made hundreds of thousands. I had more money than he did then...but I pulled most of it when I was going on vacation.

You learn hard lessons but the knowledge is worth the price.

I buy some of every company that I even hear a funny commercial for. I have a note file on my phone of companies to get stock in when I get my quarterly bonuses from work. Some make money....some lose. But thats a matter of months. Im so far up in the last few years you wouldnt believe me if I told you.

I listen to every tip....even on ISH. A poster on here told me about a company that went through the roof.

Just dont go all in on any single thing and you wont get hurt. If the market crashes as a whole...I dont panic then either. I buy even more. It always comes back.

Will the day come when the economy really collapses and it doesnt come back for a generation? Probably. But the day will come another asteroid hits the earth. Im not gonna live my life in fear of it. No protection against that.

Even gold might be worthless when the zombies come. You can only plan for so much.

[Kblaze8855]

thats why you cant just rely on a herd of people boycotting to stop fraud... there has to be legit government intervention in these matters, but shit is weak so they always skate. this is why i laugh when blaze says everybody earned whatever their worth. sooo many out there robbing, USA stock brokers and big banks rob the entire world, collapse entire economies for short term gain.

Go try to "rob" the world for a billion dollars. See how it goes without the required knowledge, effort, and dedication. If anyone could do it everyone would. Most poor people wont even put in a job application at a better place till they get fired.

The #1 obstacle in the way of the poor will always be a lack of knowledge of how to escape it then the lack of will power to implement and stick to the plan.

The titans? They rarely lack knowledge or will power.

The monsters are the ones who work themselves to death and never see their family. If you think high level bankers and so on dont put in work to get there and maintain it you are just being an idiot. Half these people went to school for 20 years just to get in the door then work for 30 years after that before you ever hear their names.

I thought I worked hard at my old minimum wage jobs as a teenager. I had a boss a few years ago who lived 50 miles from our office....I lived 20 minutes. Hed be there when I got there and when I left. He would get a room down the street to take a shower and a 2 hour nap and come right back to work. Guy was working 110 hours a week half the time. After bonuses he was probably making 400K a year and he was still hungry. He was looking to do better and better. No chill. No settle in that man.

Some people are so internally motivated its nearly impossible to keep them down once they have the basic knowledge of the direction to go. Ive not kept up with him but id bet my life he ends up one of those rich ****s who hands his kids millions and people like you act like their money came from nowhere. It never comes from nowhere. Someone has to bust their ass for it. I hope his kids go to Yale and do even better than he did.

Thats how it supposed to work. Thats who we do it for.

[tpols]

who said it was easy? becoming a top boss or even exec in a giant criminal enterprise is hard work i agree. doesnt change the point, they are earning big by pilfering the loot from the masses with every rise and fall.

and of course their kids will have much easier paths to success as well, as daddy can get them into top college and secure them a rep position at any major IB. Something kids from your hometown have about .3% chance of accomplishing.

[Kblaze8855]

who said it was easy? becoming a top boss or even exec in a giant criminal enterprise is hard work i agree. doesnt change the point, they are earning big by pilfering the loot from the masses with every rise and fall.


Of course there are people who steal at every level of commerce. I know several bartenders for example. If you order a double shot in a mixed drink they will give you 1 and a half...but put the straw in before the mixer. Why? It fills the straw with straight alcohol so your first sip is crazy strong and you feel like you got your moneys worth. Thats just the way of business. People trying to make a profit ****ing you in any way they can get away with.

But the giant companies can do it on a large scale. They are no more dishonest than the contractor who quotes you a price based on premium lumber for a deck but buys mostly regular in the places that wont be visible. You pay him 2400 for material but he spends 2000 and pockets the rest. Or the mechanic who charges you the price of a new starter when truly new starters are almost impossible to get for some cars. He buys a refurbished one and calls it new and charges you the price of a new one. You dont know the difference and it lasts exactly as long as a real new starter.

Do enough business you realize thats just the world. When you have 4 million customers its a lot more coming in but its no more immoral.

Be it bullshit fees, unjustified price raises, or crazy markups to cover selling other products at a loss you are gonna get ****ed to allow someone else to turn a profit. Doesnt matter if youre buying a dishwasher, cocaine, or a car.

IVe had my hands in a dozen businesses. I will front money to friends and family with a dream. Ive paid to open tire shops...rent garage bays for mechanics...I bought a portable for a friend to start a car lot(law says it cant be the same building you live in...so a home based lot has to have another building...which is why you see offices in portables and cargo containers in big yards and fields).

Ive seen how dirty a LOT of industries are from inside. The more I learn the more I expect to be ****ed if I dont pay attention.

Tire shops retreading old tires and selling them as gently used for 50 bucks when they pay 2 dollars a tire from a reputable place throwing them away....pretending they are gonna recycle them. Landscapers are the biggest thieves I know. You have any idea what they can charge to reseed a lawn for spring? 500-1000 for 20 minutes of work they make last all day. Put down a rye grass that dies in winter so you have to pay them again next year when it costs no more to use the grass that lasts all year. They will tell you its the right grass then come next year and say a late frost killed it off. I know roofers who take a ball hammer to make hail marks after a storm on peoples roof to get insurance to pay for a new one. The home owners dont care. Gets a new roof. And who feels sad for an insurance company?

Ive seen too much think most business run on the level.



and of course their kids will have much easier paths to success as well, as daddy can get them into top college and secure them a rep position at any major IB. Something kids from your hometown have about .3% chance of accomplishing.


I think on that you have to separate chance to do it with likelihood. A lot more people have the chance than will ever even try. Most people...even most intelligent people...will never go outside whats easy.

You wouldnt believe the arm wringing it took from me to get my friend to open his tire shop. He worked in one for years....knew used tires cost 2 dollars. Knew the connect to get them from. But was so worried about potentially not turning a profit after buying a tire mounting machine and a garage to work out of he wouldnt branch out on his own. Stayed making his shop owner 150 bucks an hour for 15 in return because he didnt wanna pay 3000 a month in rent.

I actually had to make him run the numbers then front him the money for a machine to get him to try it.

You have to pry poor people kicking and screaming out of poverty and the biggest issue isnt unfairness. Its an issue...but the biggest one is complacency.

[tpols]

i dont think it's just an issue of every poor person needing to open some metaphorical tire shop... its a societal impossibility for everybody to be a business owner because supply would topple demand. there will always be lower classes because the game is all relative. they dont get rich with people below them not ****ing up or being given a totally inferior situation.

[Ben Simmons 25]

i dont think it's just an issue of every poor person needing to open some metaphorical tire shop... its a societal impossibility for everybody to be a business owner because supply would topple demand. there will always be lower classes because the game is all relative. they dont get rich with people below them not ****ing up or being given a totally inferior situation.

What you’re saying has some level of truth to it but you’re also essentially advocating for most people to not even try to rise up because technically speaking only a finite number ever could if everyone were actually trying.

The cold hard truth is life isn’t fair and that no monolithic government is ever going to change that fact. Hopefully for your sake, one day you realize that.

[tpols]

[QUOTE=Ben Simmons 25]What you

[Ben Simmons 25]

How does negative interest rate even work? Has it ever been implemented?

https://www.investopedia.com/articles/investing/070915/how-negative-interest-rates-work.asp


They’re trying to figure out how to continue on with the endless unnatural levels of growth and spending and debt and to keep the shitshow marching on that IS GOING TO END SOONER THAN LATER no matter what they do.

At the risk of sounding dramatic it’s a step or two away from hyperinflation and some Orwellian type shit. They’re talking about running dual economies. One for cash and one for electronic transactions so that people don’t just pull their money out of banks and sit on it. This shit is unreal.

These people need to be hung in the middle of the town square for all to see.

Humanity needs a way forward from central bank and government controlled and manipulated currency... cause what we got now... that ain’t it, chief.

[tpols]

i dont think it matters whether the currency is government controlled or not.

the closest thing we have to a private sector controlled currency are all the e-currencies that have popped up, which are widely volatile as hell.

[Kblaze8855]

i dont think it's just an issue of every poor person needing to open some metaphorical tire shop... its a societal impossibility for everybody to be a business owner because supply would topple demand. there will always be lower classes because the game is all relative. they dont get rich with people below them not ****ing up or being given a totally inferior situation.


The issue isnt needing to try your own business. The issue is the motivation to try something other than settling into a shit life and acting like nothing can be done.

Regardless of the specific path they take the main issue is the motivation and desire to take a path in the first place. There are always enough lazy people to leave room for the motivated to pass them.

Even if it

[Ben Simmons 25]

i dont think it matters whether the currency is government controlled or not.

the closest thing we have to a private sector controlled currency are all the e-currencies that have popped up, which are widely volatile as hell.

Of course it matters... it matters a hell of a lot.

They’re volatile as hell because they represent a potential paradigm shift for humanity which has yet to come to fruition and quite naturally the growing pains aren’t going to be just a smooth sailing experience from inception to full scale adoption.

They’re still largely speculative at the moment... but that will change for Bitcoin. The question is when... not if.

[tpols]

[QUOTE=Ben Simmons 25]Of course it matters... it matters a hell of a lot.

They

[Ben Simmons 25]

so whats the full scale adoption end game?

the whole point of gov controlled is it keeps inflation in check and how much youre earning pegged stably so you can plan and live your life accordingly.

how is everybody operating on e-currency going to be a more stable option? what are the mechanics behind it?

Governments cause inflation... not keep it in check... when they elect to have their currency backed by nothing... such as we did when we abandoned the gold standard and even earlier than that created the federal reserve...

It’s a more stable option because nobody can willfully “print more Bitcoin”. The last Bitcoin will eventually be mined and then there is no more inflation. And we can get into a back and forth about a currency being inflationary or deflationary and what’s better but a deflationary currency is healthier for humanity as a whole and for our wallets.

I don’t want to make this topic about crypto.. but about the fact that fiat currency is really starting to completely fail us on a global scale.

[Akrazotile]

Governments cause inflation... not keep it in check...when they elect to have their currency backed by nothing... such as we did when we abandoned the gold standard and even earlier than that created the federal reserve...

It’s a more stable option because nobody can willfully “print more Bitcoin”. The last Bitcoin will eventually be mined and then there is no more inflation. And we can get into a back and forth about a currency being inflationary or deflationary and what’s better but a deflationary currency is healthier for humanity as a whole and for our wallets.

I don’t want to make this topic about crypto.. but about the fact that fiat currency is really starting to completely fail us on a global scale.

My understanding is that the people who provide hardware or whatever to keep bitcoin transactions recorded are doing so in exchange for newly minted bitcoin, yeah? I understand that the plan is for bitcoin to eventually cease new creation, but then who’s going to keep track of all the transactions? What’s in it for them at that point?

[Ben Simmons 25]

My understanding is that the people who provide hardware or whatever to keep bitcoin transactions recorded are doing so in exchange for newly minted bitcoin, yeah? I understand that the plan is for bitcoin to eventually cease new creation, but then who’s going to keep track of all the transactions? What’s in it for them at that point?

Well... to keep it simple... they collect transaction fees. They do this now, also, but the value of the fees is not enough to currently sustain the network, thus where the mining comes into play.

And the last Bitcoin should be mined in 2140. By that time, the value of 1 BTC will have risen to such a tremendous degree, the seemingly minuscule transaction fees by today's standards will hold much higher real world value, and they will pay for miners to continue to secure the network/provide its hash power. At that point, individual users will not be paying directly for transaction fees as they won't personally be making on chain transactions. Additional layers such as the lightning network will "batch" if you will, an untold number of transactions into a single transaction on the main chain... the fees afforded by the lightning network and other layers will make the processing fees for individuals negligible, but when compounded with millions of other users, make the fees high enough to sustain the network.

It's more complicated than that and I'm certainly not a developer but that's the best I could do for laymen's terms.

That's the best way for me to put it, really.

[Ben Simmons 25]

https://www.axios.com/supposed-good-for-equities-0f26f58d-4849-4d62-8e08-e9793e924c64.html

:roll: :roll:

:facepalm :facepalm

:roll:

[qrich]

I switched to a credit union.

Was going to do a CU, but went to Stash Debit and love it.

[Hawker]

https://www.axios.com/supposed-good-for-equities-0f26f58d-4849-4d62-8e08-e9793e924c64.html

:roll: :roll:

:facepalm :facepalm

:roll:

10+ years since the great recession. This is bad.

[Ben Simmons 25]

10+ years since the great recession. This is bad.

I personally don't think we ever fixed anything. We haven't seen the last of it. Basically... we put multiple trillions of dollars costing bandages on our wounds and the bandages have about filled up with as much blood as they're going to hold.

[Objectivity]

Will there be a hyperinflation?

Should i buy crypto/gold?

[Ben Simmons 25]

Will there be a hyperinflation?

Should i buy crypto/gold?

I don't know what to do or when it's coming. I do know that having the majority of your wealth tied up in the markets and US dollars will be bad eventually. But I mean for ****s sake... who knows when this road ends... we just keep kicking the can. Maybe we get away with it for my entire life, though I doubt it.

And yes, I see the troll. It's ok. I love you still.

[step_back]

It's always a good idea having some gold in your portfolio. Personally I don't see anyone doing well in the stock market (If you're just buying an index) over the next decade unless you have a good eye for value investing and the balls to invest in emerging markets (I got burned doing that)

We're going to be dealing with a period of deflation. Baby boomers retiring, job loss from automation. The Fed is still fixated on a 2% inflation target for ****s sake :lol

[eliteballer]

We are told to save as kids and have grown up to discover that savings accounts are useless (if yours gets over 2% it's actually great). I may not teach my kids anything about investments and markets because the only thing I feel sure of is that they're all highly untrustworthy. You have these "honest" banks that merely give you shit returns and then you have groups like Wells Fargo that defraud investors of billions and then get a tax break bigger than their fine for it, the Enrons and Madoffs of the world out there to rob you when you think they'll make you rich. Economics either isn't a science or it's a secret science that will never be taught to the general public. The only investments I feel like I can trust are the businesses (often just side hustles) started by myself and/or people I know well. If I put 10Gs in the stock market someone may make another 10Gs off of it but I bet it won't be me.

The get rich quick and daily trading stuff is fools gold, look up long-term value investing.

[SomeBlackDude]

welp, it's been an honor maga'ing with you boys.


Yield curve recession indicator flashes red as 10-year yield falls below 3-month yield

The yield curve as measured by the spread between the 3-month Treasury bill tmubmud03m and the 10-year note TMUBMUSD10Y, -4.11% inverted for the first time since 2007, following a sharp rally in longer-dated notes. The spread between the two maturities stood at around negative 3 basis points. On Friday, the 10-year note yield fell nearly 10 basis points to 2.434%, while the 3-month bill was down a single basis point to 2.462%, Tradeweb data show. Bond prices move inversely to yields. The last nine times the yield curve has inverted, a recession has followed, according to the San Francisco Fed.

-the lyin' market watch

[QUOTE]U.S. Markets Flash Warning Last Seen Before Great Recession

A bellwether U.S. bond indicator has turned negative for the first time since the beginning of the financial crisis in 2007. The closely watched gap between yield rates on the three-month and 10-year Treasury notes vanished in trading early Friday as buyers rushed into the longer-term bonds, pushing prices down. This event

[bladefd]

welp, it's been an honor maga'ing with you boys.





[bone]i'll see you at the crossroads. [/thugs] :(

https://media.giphy.com/media/DOaQjlBwdK17G/giphy.gif

Mortgage interest rates are dropping too.. :confusedshrug:

[SomeBlackDude]

Mortgage interest rates are dropping too.. :confusedshrug:

the big one is coming.

https://media.giphy.com/media/oLfFPxGAjyctG/giphy.gif

only question now is how much time do we have? 6 months? 9 months?

what a time. :(

[bladefd]

The Dow fell 460 points Friday after a US recession indicator blinked red and a report on German manufacturing raised concerns about Europe's most important economy.

The index shed 1.8%, while the S&P 500 closed down 1.9%. The Nasdaq plunged 2.5%. It was the worst performance for all three major indexes since January 3.https://www.cnn.com/2019/03/22/investing/dow-stock-market-yield-curve/index.html

Oh dear..

[SomeBlackDude]

the big one is coming.

https://media.giphy.com/media/oLfFPxGAjyctG/giphy.gif

only question now is how much time do we have? 6 months? 9 months?

what a time. :(

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/-FNAC4VdHqo/hqdefault.jpg

we may have almost a year.


zerohedge
‏@zerohedge

On six occasions over the past 50 years when the three-month yield exceeded that of the 10-year, economic recession invariably followed, commencing an average of 311 days after the initial signal.

plenty of time for us all to get our affairs in order. :cheers:

[Hawker]

https://www.cnn.com/2019/03/22/investing/dow-stock-market-yield-curve/index.html

Oh dear..

Somehow German's manufacturing problems will be blamed on Trump.

[SomeBlackDude]

Somehow German's manufacturing problems will be blamed on Trump.

[QUOTE]