This is the most offensively advanced era I've ever seen

[superduper]

https://streamable.com/ekwad

:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

God this era is such a fking clownfest

[Phoenix]

Jesus H how many travel miles did he earn on that one? :facepalm

I mean the fukking ref is less than 10 feet away.

[superduper]

Zero perimeter defense allowed
Zero rim protection
6'9 Centers running rampant
Travels and stiff-arms galore
Layup line runways
3pt chucking clown fest
Every game is 80-80 at the half

Most advanced era EVER!! :rockon:

[coin24]

Wtf:lol :facepalm

Anything to inflate the scoring

[SomeBlackDude]

i feel like there's an unwritten rule now that there's no such thing as a travel any more.

some of these aren't like borderline, could go either way travels. it's take 3 steps with no dribble then take 2 hop steps to make sure you're behind the 3 pt line.

refs are like "i didn't see shit. 3 points and a foul." :confusedshrug:

[superduper]

Wtf:lol :facepalm

Anything to inflate the scoring

But bro did you even compare Harden's $tats to Kobe's?!?!?!

http://www.cesarmiguelrondon.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/06/john-franklin-stephen.png

[SouBeachTalents]

Zero perimeter defense allowed
Zero rim protection
6'9 Centers running rampant
Travels and stiff-arms galore
Layup line runways
3pt chucking clown fest
Every game is 80-80 at the half

Most advanced era EVER!! :rockon:
That bad, and you're still here posting 15 times a day about it :lol

[superduper]

That bad, and you're still here posting 15 times a day about it :oldlol:

Where did I say it's bad?

This is THE most advanced era.

#zeroDefenseGang
#$tats

[NBAGOAT]

old timers just cant accept that the 3 is a game breaking mechanic that still isnt abused enough. Even Pop gets it even if he hates it.

Part of the reason Mil has been the best team during the RS even though Philly, Bos, Tor are likely more talented

[Ghost1]

Kareem: skyhook
Hakeem: dream shake
Duncan: bank shot
Dirk: one legged fadeaway
Harden: double step back
Rozier: triple step back

[superduper]

old timers just cant accept that the 3 is a game breaking mechanic that still isnt abused enough. Even Pop gets it even if he hates it.

Part of the reason Mil has been the best team during the RS even though Philly, Bos, Tor are likely more talented

Are the new travelling mechanics also game breaking?

[superduper]

Kareem: skyhook
Hakeem: dream shake
Duncan: bank shot
Dirk: one legged fadeaway
Harden: double step back
Rozier: triple step back

https://i.redd.it/3vfypo8xa8601.jpg

[NBAGOAT]

Are the new travelling mechanics also game breaking?

lol nope because everyone gets away with it and traveling calls have always been on the loose side unless it's the 60s or 70s. Sure some benefit more however

[Phoenix]

old timers just cant accept that the 3 is a game breaking mechanic that still isnt abused enough. Even Pop gets it even if he hates it.

Part of the reason Mil has been the best team during the RS even though Philly, Bos, Tor are likely more talented

Were you unconscious during the split second he travelled across the planet to create space for the 3? I assume that's what is being discussed, not the 3ball itself.

[NBAGOAT]

Were you unconscious during the split second he travelled across the planet to create space for the 3? I assume that's what is being discussed, not the 3ball itself.

i'm responding to op's bullet points in a later post. a traveling discussion is kind of futile imo, the NBA is never clamping down besides a few minor things. They cant go back suddenly or travel calls would start interfering with flow of play which is one of the huge appeals of the NBA. Even with all the free throws, it's still way better than football/baseball.

Edit: pretty bad but not the worst I've seen since Rozier made it decently smooth. The worst stuff is still the pivot foot stuff where a guy drags it 5+times

[Phoenix]

i'm responding to op's bullet points in a later post. a traveling discussion is kind of futile imo, the NBA is never clamping down besides a few minor things. They cant go back suddenly or travel calls would start interfering with flow of play which is one of the huge appeals of the NBA. Even with all the free throws, it's still way better than football/baseball.

Edit: pretty bad but not the worst I've seen since Rozier made it decently smooth. The worst stuff is still the pivot foot stuff where a guy drags it 5+times

Travels calls( or lack thereof) were rarely as offensive as they are now. Have players, especially star players, gotten away with shit in the past? Travelling, carrying...sure. But like that? It's one thing to take an extra step, quite another to hop step then take another 3 steps backwards to literally run away from the defense. I mean, fukkking Gary Payton in his DPOY prime would be getting torched by Rozier if they're gonna allow this shit.

[Bronbron23]

I actually think the perimeter offence in this era is pretty good. Mainly because of the increase in the 3 ball. It spreads the floor more and opens up lanes for guys to get to the hole with little resistance. That along with all the rule changes is why offences are better now.

[Phoenix]

I actually think the perimeter offence in this era is pretty good. Mainly because of the increase in the 3 ball. It spreads the floor more and opens up lanes for guys to get to the hole with little resistance. That along with all the rule changes is why offences are better now.

I'm assuming there's an undercurrent of sarcasm in this post, if you're equating 'lower resistance' scoring to mean 'better offence'. Players have more freedom to execute 'skilled' moves now because modern rules have largely set the offensive player free while shackling the defensive one. It makes the game more 'advanced' looking to the casual but really everyone is spamming the same style. There's less balance between range shooting, midrange scoring and post game, with an emphasis on jacking up 3's and getting to the line 50 times a night. Nobody is trying to beat the Warriors with a different style, they're trying to 'out Golden State' them by outshooting them( good luck with that).

[StrongLurk]

IF OP was born in the 50's, he'd be complaining about the NBA in 80's and 90's and the Wilt/Russell were the GOATS.

[NBAGOAT]

Travels calls( or lack thereof) were rarely as offensive as they are now. Have players, especially star players, gotten away with shit in the past? Travelling, carrying...sure. But like that? It's one thing to take an extra step, quite another to hop step then take another 3 steps backwards to literally run away from the defense. I mean, fukkking Gary Payton in his DPOY prime would be getting torched by Rozier if they're gonna allow this shit.

i agree it's getting more and more lax but that makes it even harder to turn back. It'll lead to a shitload of travel calls to start off the year and fans will be complaining like when there were a bunch of foul calls to start the year because of the freedom of movement ruke.

Rozier's was 3 steps however. Beal's travel call if you seen it was hilarious however

[NBAGOAT]

I'm assuming there's an undercurrent of sarcasm in this post, if you're equating 'lower resistance' scoring to mean 'better offence'. Players have more freedom to execute 'skilled' moves now because modern rules have largely set the offensive player free while shackling the defensive one. It makes the game more 'advanced' looking to the casual but really everyone is spamming the same style. There's less balance between range shooting, midrange scoring and post game, with an emphasis on jacking up 3's and getting to the line 50 times a night. Nobody is trying to beat the Warriors with a different style, they're trying to 'out Golden State' them by outshooting them( good luck with that).

tht's because balance isnt relevant when taking a 3 and going to a foul line has so much more expected value. Harden's cheapest play which is getting to the foul line after being fouled on a 3pt shot is basically 2.5ppp, comical value from a possession.

Anyone who's taken a game theory class would know that yes balanced strategies are important if you have varying degrees of success based on how your opponent plays. However if one strategy produces more ev even when the defense knows that's your strategy(and every team in the nba knows on defense to focus on defending the 3 pt line), then you go with that strategy. In Chess you have like 2 optimal opening moves, that's just the way the game is. that's actually one sign of a game being " more solved", when strategies become less diverse because people realize most are bad ones. It's less entertaining for us but you cant blame the teams for playing that way if they think it's the best way to win

The NFL fans have been way more open to this I feel like. Passing on average besides short yardage situations is just more effective than running and that's why offensive innovation is trending that way, it's not just rule changes. You do see people complain about rules but you dont see many complaints about lack of true smashmouth football or teams being too aggressive on 2pt conversions etc. Balance actually matters in the nfl far more however since it can be a good decision to run the ball when the defense sells out for the pass.

That's not the case in the NBA because if you sell out for the 3 completely, they always can score in the paint. There are definitely plenty of guys who can be more efficient shooting contested 3's than long 2's at least.

Edit: and because you are not as good as GS at playing the style does not mean you should try something just to be different. If it's less optimal like say isoing a lot with a non top tier iso player, it could make you worse. Like San Antonio should not bank on derozan dribbling the shot clock down and isoing like hou did last year, he's not good enough to do that well.

[Bronbron23]

I'm assuming there's an undercurrent of sarcasm in this post, if you're equating 'lower resistance' scoring to mean 'better offence'. Players have more freedom to execute 'skilled' moves now because modern rules have largely set the offensive player free while shackling the defensive one. It makes the game more 'advanced' looking to the casual but really everyone is spamming the same style. There's less balance between range shooting, midrange scoring and post game, with an emphasis on jacking up 3's and getting to the line 50 times a night. Nobody is trying to beat the Warriors with a different style, they're trying to 'out Golden State' them by outshooting them( good luck with that).
No not being sarcastic. I think there's lower resistance partially because of the three ball. The floor is spread out much more so there's very little rim protection. The rules definitely play a huge part in that but you can't ignore the effectiveness of shooting alot of threes. Yeah it's horrible to watch and it's gonna be the death of the mid range game but it's effective non the less.

I'm not saying players today are better offensively just that teams now because of the 3 ball and pace of play are more effective offensively.

And you have to beat the warriors with defence. The style of play dosnt matter as much. Houston had them beat last year because of there defence. It wasn't anything the did differently offensively. They shoot more threes than anyone

[NBAGOAT]

No not being sarcastic. I think there's lower resistance partially because of the three ball. The floor is spread out much more so there's very little rim protection. The rules definitely play a huge part in that but you can't ignore the effectiveness of shooting alot of threes. Yeah it's horrible to watch and it's gonna be the death of the mid range game but it's effective non the less.

I'm not saying players today are better offensively just that teams now because of the 3 ball and pace of play are more effective offensively.

And you have to beat the warriors with defence. The style of play dosnt matter as much. Houston had them beat last year because of there defence. It wasn't anything the did differently offensively. They shoot more threes than anyone

tbf to hou their offense did help in that they slowed down the pace which is how you beat better teams(less possessions means more variance). They were also incredibly good at the iso style. I do agree it was mostly their defense however.

the players today arent "better" but they are doing better in a vacuum because of their shot selection, mainly the focus on the 3 ball . If Allen Iverson turned most of his 20+footers into 3 pt attempts instead, he have better results quite simply

[3ball]

Hot potato

"I'm not quite open. You shoot the three.."..

"I'm not open either, here, you shoot it"...

"Oh shit guys, I'm not open either.. here, you shoot it"..

"okay, I'm open enough, here it goes"


What a time.. how far the game has come......

[superduper]

Hot potato

"I'm not quite open. You shoot the three.."..

"I'm not open either, here, you shoot it"...

"Oh shit guys, I'm not open either.. here, you shoot it"..

"okay, I'm open enough, here it goes"


What a time.. how far the game has come......

Much advanced!

So strategy!!

[E_Stamkos]

Eww

Slap this dude.

[ArbitraryWater]

https://i.redd.it/3vfypo8xa8601.jpg

looks like bron clearing himself from a foul


call it self-defense

[bullettooth]

https://i.redd.it/3vfypo8xa8601.jpg

Which Superbowl loss was that picture taken at?

[Bronbron23]

tbf to hou their offense did help in that they slowed down the pace which is how you beat better teams(less possessions means more variance). They were also incredibly good at the iso style. I do agree it was mostly their defense however.

the players today arent "better" but they are doing better in a vacuum because of their shot selection, mainly the focus on the 3 ball . If Allen Iverson turned most of his 20+footers into 3 pt attempts instead, he have better results quite simply
Yeah pretty much. If the 3 was big when a.i played he would of worked on it more and used it to his advantage. It sucks but playing fast pace jacking a bunch of threes makes sense in general. Problem with that strategy is when really good defensive teams figure how to gaurd that, players have no other ways to score. The isolation mid range game is all but dead and that's unfortunate because in tight defensive games down the stretch, that's the best way to score.

[Shaquille O'Neal]

Zero perimeter defense allowed
Zero rim protection
6'9 Centers running rampant
Travels and stiff-arms galore
Layup line runways
3pt chucking clown fest
Every game is 80-80 at the half

Most advanced era EVER!! :rockon:



I'm probably not going to get the league pass again next year. It's just awful now. My son's 7th grade team plays more defense and passes more.

[Phoenix]

tht's because balance isnt relevant when taking a 3 and going to a foul line has so much more expected value. Harden's cheapest play which is getting to the foul line after being fouled on a 3pt shot is basically 2.5ppp, comical value from a possession.

Anyone who's taken a game theory class would know that yes balanced strategies are important if you have varying degrees of success based on how your opponent plays. However if one strategy produces more ev even when the defense knows that's your strategy(and every team in the nba knows on defense to focus on defending the 3 pt line), then you go with that strategy. In Chess you have like 2 optimal opening moves, that's just the way the game is. that's actually one sign of a game being " more solved", when strategies become less diverse because people realize most are bad ones. It's less entertaining for us but you cant blame the teams for playing that way if they think it's the best way to win

The NFL fans have been way more open to this I feel like. Passing on average besides short yardage situations is just more effective than running and that's why offensive innovation is trending that way, it's not just rule changes. You do see people complain about rules but you dont see many complaints about lack of true smashmouth football or teams being too aggressive on 2pt conversions etc. Balance actually matters in the nfl far more however since it can be a good decision to run the ball when the defense sells out for the pass.

That's not the case in the NBA because if you sell out for the 3 completely, they always can score in the paint. There are definitely plenty of guys who can be more efficient shooting contested 3's than long 2's at least.

Edit: and because you are not as good as GS at playing the style does not mean you should try something just to be different. If it's less optimal like say isoing a lot with a non top tier iso player, it could make you worse. Like San Antonio should not bank on derozan dribbling the shot clock down and isoing like hou did last year, he's not good enough to do that well.

The 3 pointer has basically broken the game, devolved it into a product less of contrasting styles and one where everyone is trying to one-up each other playing the same way. I'm not arguing that trying to be different at the expense of a more guaranteed style based on modern rules is smart, I'm just arguing that it doesn't make the overall game more interesting( in my old man shouting at the clouds way).

[Bronbron23]

The 3 pointer has basically broken the game, devolved it into a product less of contrasting styles and one where everyone is trying to one-up each other playing the same way. I'm not arguing that trying to be different at the expense of a more guaranteed style based on modern rules is smart, I'm just arguing that it doesn't make the overall game more interesting( in my old man shouting at the clouds way).
I also don't think the new style dosnt make it very interesting. Personally I find it hard to watch. I think most older basketball purists so to speak probably don't like the way the game is going. It seems like casual fans love it though. The new generation who only know this style also obviously like it.

It's just a different day. Might as well get used to it. I don't think it's ever gonna back to when the league was more physical and equally defensive minded.

[Phoenix]

I also don't think the new style dosnt make it very interesting. Personally I find it hard to watch. I think most older basketball purists so to speak probably don't like the way the game is going. It seems like casual fans love it though. The new generation who only know this style also obviously like it.

It's just a different day. Might as well get used to it. I don't think it's ever gonna back to when the league was more physical and equally defensive minded.

No better time to highlight that point by coming off a night where Harden goes 8 for fukking 22 from three. Call me a bitter old man....I hate this POS era.

[Gileraracer]

https://i.redd.it/3vfypo8xa8601.jpg

The stiffie

[Bronbron23]

No better time to highlight that point by coming off a night where Harden goes 8 for fukking 22 from three. Call me a bitter old man....I hate this POS era.
Yeah that's gross. I try not to watch Houston and harden play. How anybody is a fan of his game is beyond me.