MJ's Finals opponents had the best winning percentage of any top 10 player

[3ball]

The only human to beat four 60-win, Finals teams.. plus a 59-win and 57-win team

5 teams that MJ beat were in their uber-prime, peak.. he didn't need a chunk of his rings to come in down years like say, Duncan or 12' lebron, or against weak teams like Shaq and Curry won their rings

Also, dynasties will always play weaker teams in the Finals because they're the dynasty.. :confusedshrug:... one can complain about facing dynasties or being the underdog in the Finals, because that only exposes them for never BEING the dynasty or favorite

[Hey Yo]

6 team expansion era = inflated win totals throughout the league.

[Uncle Drew]

How many 70 win teams did he beat? Why is Jordan's best opponent in the finals worse than LeBron's worst opponent?

[3ball]

6 team expansion era = inflated win totals throughout the league.
The same 30-team league we have today, so it's the same..

They weren't picking up garbage men and mechanics - expansion teams consisted of a draft of current NBA players (each team had to make 2 players on their roster available for the draft)

[NBAGOAT]

Magic win totals of teams he faced: 65, 63, 63, 62, 61, 59, 58, 58, 54. Oh yea the 54 win team was a version of the Bad Boy Pistons who you can argue over some 90s teams with more wins imo

[Nikola_]

6 team expansion era = inflated win totals throughout the league.

72-10 bulls lost to the vancouver grizzlies werent they?

[3ball]

How many 70 win teams did he beat? Why is Jordan's best opponent in the finals worse than LeBron's worst opponent?
I prefer to stan someone that beat four 60-win Finals teams over a one-off and mostly losing (lottery win % in the Finals)

And the Spurs weren't good.. simply feasting on teams/winning in down years - they literally snuck in for most of the down years over a 14-year period.. never winning b2b... :facepalm

[jstern]

If one is too young to have seen an era, the best way to know the strength of the team is to see what was being said about those team at the time they were playing. And nobody was saying that the teams Jordan played were weak, or not good. They were saying the opposite. But then you have insecure, teenage fanboys who are emotionally hurt wanting to change the narrative.

[bigkingsfan]

Zero 65 wins opponent, weak ass era. Only time he faced a such team he got swept.

[SouBeachTalents]

I prefer to stan someone that beat four 60-win Finals teams over a one-off and mostly losing (lottery win % in the Finals)

And the Spurs weren't good.. simply feasting on teams/winning in down years - they literally snuck in for most of the down years over a 14-year period.. never winning b2b... :facepalm
By that rationale, then the Blazers, Suns, Sonics & Jazz all sucked, those 4 teams combined for ONE Finals appearance outside of the years they faced Jordan, yet you're clowning on a team that won 5 titles :oldlol:

[Hey Yo]

72-10 bulls lost to the vancouver grizzlies werent they?
Lost to Toronto by 1 point. It was their 68th game of the season.

Rodman didn't play that game. I'm sure the leagues rebounding champion would have made a difference against Oliver Miller's fat ass

[Hey Yo]

The same 30-team league we have today, so it's the same..

They weren't picking up garbage men and mechanics - expansion teams consisted of a draft of current NBA players (each team had to make 2 players on their roster available for the draft)
And none of those players were top 8 in the rotation.

[Rico2016]

Bro...He had two good wins

93 Suns
97 Jazz

Let it go. He won against weaklings, who doesn't know this?

[Rico2016]

How many 70 win teams did he beat? Why is Jordan's best opponent in the finals worse than LeBron's worst opponent?

3ball will run from this like the plague

[Nikola_]

Lost to Toronto by 1 point. It was their 68th game of the season.

Rodman didn't play that game. I'm sure the leagues rebounding champion would have made a difference against Oliver Miller's fat ass

CMON its not like they needed rodman for f turronto raptors!

[Manny98]

LeBron sweeps 60 win teams for fun see 15 Hawks and 18 Raptors

Come back when Jordan beats a 65+ win team aka an all time great team

[3ball]

By that rationale, then the Blazers, Suns, Sonics & Jazz all sucked, those 4 teams combined for ONE Finals appearance outside of the years they faced Jordan, yet you're clowning on a team that won 5 titles :oldlol:
Thats because the 90's West had numerous "spurs"

Other than Shaq, there were no all-time bigs to battle in the 2000's West, like Hakeem, Barkley, Malone (and Shaq) of the 90's - Duncan would make 1 or 2 Finals in the 90's, just like Barkley, Malone, Hakeem, and shaq did... Heck, maybe he makes none, considering he could only beat Shaq when the he was down or feuding with Kobe

Hakeem and Shaq are great examples - equal or better than Duncan, yet only 1-2 Finals in the 90's, otherwise they got destroyed like Duncan would've in that decade.. Utah actually destroyed shaq and also duncan/popovich in 98' - the rest of the 90's would be the same if Timmy had entered the league a decade earlier.. and MJ destroyed Shaq too.. ultimately, the golden age of bigs (90's) had FAR more comp for Duncan than the weaker 00's

Of course, lebron mostly LOST to the Spurs (1-2), and would never have won without Ray's shot.. that's pathetic - MJ would've destroyed Duncan in the playoffs the same way he crushed all the 90's, golden age bigs (Shaq, Ewing, Malone, Zo, Barkley, Mutombo, etc)... :confusedshrug:
..

[bullettooth]

6 team expansion era = inflated win totals throughout the league.

Tell us about LeBron's stats!

[3ball]

LeBron sweeps 60 win teams for fun see 15 Hawks and 18 Raptors

Come back when Jordan beats a 65+ win team aka an all time great team
Those aren't Finals teams.. big difference

MJ beat four 60-win Finals teams.. no one has ever done that

[tpols]

Thats because the 90's West had numerous "spurs"

Other than Shaq, there were no all-time bigs to battle in the 2000's West, like Hakeem, Barkley, Malone (and Shaq) of the 90's - Duncan would make 1 or 2 Finals in the 90's, just like Barkley, Malone, Hakeem, and shaq did... Heck, maybe he makes none, considering he could only beat Shaq when the he was down or feuding with Kobe

Hakeem and Shaq are great examples - equal or better than Duncan, yet only 1-2 Finals in the 90's, otherwise they got destroyed like Duncan would've in that decade.. Utah actually destroyed shaq and also duncan/popovich in 98' - the rest of the 90's would be the same if Timmy had entered the league a decade earlier.. and MJ destroyed Shaq too.. ultimately, the golden age of bigs (90's) had FAR more comp for Duncan than the weaker 00's

Of course, lebron mostly LOST to the Spurs (1-2), and would never have won without Ray's shot.. that's pathetic - MJ would've destroyed Duncan in the playoffs the same way he crushed all the 90's, golden age bigs (Shaq, Ewing, Malone, Zo, Barkley, Mutombo, etc)... :confusedshrug:
..


I dont think you're going to be able to verify that.

Duncan had to face prime shaq, kobe, garnett, dirk, nash, amare, kidd, etc. on loaded laker, mavs, kings, suns squads... He eventually got the best of an LA dynasty with historically poor help, there's no reason he couldnt do it at some point over the entire 90s.

[warriorfan]

Bro...He had two good wins

93 Suns
97 Jazz

Let it go. He won against weaklings, who doesn't know this?

Reported

[NBAGOAT]

I dont think you're going to be able to verify that.

Duncan had to face prime shaq, kobe, garnett, dirk, nash, amare, kidd, etc. on loaded laker, mavs, kings, suns squads... He eventually got the best of an LA dynasty with historically poor help, there's no reason he couldnt do it at some point over the entire 90s.

yea this is unfair. Mid 2000's spurs are championship teams. Losing as a rookie on a completely different team with just drob to the jazz proves nothing. The Lakers, Kings, Suns, and Mavs are right up there with 90's West teams

[72-10]

It's probably any player in history other than Toni Kukoc, and tied with Pippen of course.

[3ball]

I dont think you're going to be able to verify that.

Duncan had to face prime shaq, kobe, garnett, dirk, nash, amare, kidd, etc. on loaded laker, mavs, kings, suns squads... He eventually got the best of an LA dynasty with historically poor help, there's no reason he couldnt do it at some point over the entire 90s.


hakeem, shaq, malone, and barkley are literally the best bigs outside of wilt/russell/kareem, which demonstrates that Duncan would've had more comp in the 90's, the golden age of bigs

Hakeem, Malone, Barkley, and Shaq alternated beating each other and making the Finals in the 90's.. Duncan would've done the same.. Malone had already beaten Duncan and Shaq to make the Finals in 98'

And each of the examples you gave demonstrates the point that Duncan faced weaker comp in the 00's:

1) Duncan never faced kg when he had a squad like Barkley/Malone/Shaq in the 90's..
2) he only beat Shaq when he'd started to decline and was sick of Kobe..
3) amare isn't all-time great, nor was he on squads capable of alternating making the Finals like Malone/Hakeem/Barkley did in the 90's
4) did you just call Kidd's teams "loaded"? They're widely recognized as among the weakest Finals teams ever
5) Dirk was legit, but his casts were extremely weak; but I'll give you Dirk. Actually, I can't even give you that when you consider what happened in 06' (alternating with Dirk)


The 90's simply had the best bigs - a deep list of great bigs - and therefore would've been much tougher for Duncan than the 00's, which had started to trend towards guards.. and this transition caused a brand of ball that couldn't beat euroleague in international competitions.. the Spurs simply feasted on a weak league that mostly played steve francis-ball.. a brand that couldn't beat euroleague
..

[bigkingsfan]

2) he only beat Shaq when he'd started to decline and was sick of Kobe..

..
https://www.basketball-reference.com/playoffs/1999-nba-western-conference-semifinals-lakers-vs-spurs.html :facepalm

[tpols]

The early and mid '00s west was stacked to the brim with all time talent. It was the east that was weak talent wise.

[3ball]

https://www.basketball-reference.com/playoffs/1999-nba-western-conference-semifinals-lakers-vs-spurs.html :facepalm
And Malone beat him in 98', while Shaq beat him most other years

Heck, he only made 3 Finals in the 00's... He'd make less in the 90's considering Hakeem/Shaq made 3 Finals combined, while also facing Finals-caliber teams from Malone, Barkley and Kemp, instead of kg's cupcakes and nash-ball (:oldlol:.. loser-ball)

[bigkingsfan]

https://media1.tenor.com/images/83116dac5575fef19f9a39e17984e7bd/tenor.gif

[And1AllDay]

Bruh what are you trying to do? True bball heads already know Mike Jordan was beating up on weak teams. How you dont know this yet makes no sense but I can breka it down slowly for you if you want here it goes

1) Three sweeps before Pippen saves Bulls franchise
2) Never beat super teams when they were in primes
3) Best win in Finals against 10 ppg Hornacek
4) Never had tough defenders on him only guys like Ehlo, Starks, Hornacek,

[3ball]

The early and mid '00s west was stacked to the brim with all time talent. It was the east that was weak talent wise.
You pointed out Duncan's best comp - shaq, amare, kg, dirk - they all rank lower than shaq, hakeem, malone, barkley..

amare/nash-ball and kg didn't have Finals caliber teams or alternate making Finals like hakeem/barkley/malone/kemp did...

Ultimately, Duncan faced Shaq in the 2000's..... But he'd face shaq AND hakeem in the 90's.. that alone would knock him down, let alone the other Finals teams that fielded great bigs like Barkley, Malone, Kemp

You simply can't come up with 00's comp that compares to the 90's.. heck, various euros and the puerto ricans proved that 00's ball was inferior
.

[PickernRoller]

https://media.giphy.com/media/7x0PA6zCKuLKM/giphy.gif

[3ball]

Shaq/Dirk/KG/Amare rank lower all-time than Shaq/Hakeem/Barkley/Malone

especially considering the latter all fielded Finals teams in the 90's, while amare/kg didn't

The 90's was the golden age of bigs, which means Duncan wouldn't have fared as well in that era

Bringing this back around to Lebron - Lebron faced Duncan, which is equivalent to MJ facing Shaq in the 90's

except shaq couldn't make the Finals much in the 90's due to parity and better comp, whereas Duncan feasted on comp that ranked lower all-time and fielded weaker teams

[3ball]

Lebron fans claim the Spurs were better... Based on what? Duncan and Shaq only won after the 90's stars got old (Hakeem, Malone, MJ)..

otherwise, hakeem kicked shaq's ass.. Malone kicked Duncan's ass.. and MJ kicked everyone's ass.. the Spurs would do worse against MJ/Hakeem/shaq then they did versus amare/dirk/shaq

Of course lebron also had 2 extra HOF's compared to MJ, so this greater help offsets any superior comp argument - lebron had a super-team to face the Spurs in 13', and was appropriately favored

[Shaquille O'Neal]

How many 70 win teams did he beat? Why is Jordan's best opponent in the finals worse than LeBron's worst opponent?



Jordan was the "one who knocks". He was the 70+ win team.


Only NBA team in history to win 70+ and the chip, and Mike was league MVP and Finals MVP that year, along with the scoring champ.


At at 33. Nothing anyone else has done can top that team/personal achievement.

[Rico2016]

Jordan was the "one who knocks". He was the 70+ win team.


Only team to win the chip with a 70+ win team or more, and Mike was league MVP and Finals MVP that year, along with the scoring champ.


At at 33. Nothing anyone else has done can top that team/personal achievement.

So he was always on the stacked team. He was the Warriors.

Cool. Got it...Like we thought.

[Shaquille O'Neal]

So he was always on the stacked team. He was the Warriors.

Cool. Got it...Like we thought.



Sure, you could say Curry + Thompson + Green + KD = 1 MJ. :applause:


Any team MJ was on from 1991-1998 was stacked because MJ was on it. Pull up a chair young man I don't think you're getting it.

[egokiller]

If one is too young to have seen an era, the best way to know the strength of the team is to see what was being said about those team at the time they were playing. And nobody was saying that the teams Jordan played were weak, or not good. They were saying the opposite. But then you have insecure, teenage fanboys who are emotionally hurt wanting to change the narrative.

Why wouldn't they be emotionally hurt? Their only option was witnessing mediocrity in the form of Lebron while their elders witnessed pure GOAT level basketball in the form of MJ. It's like comparing a diamond to a piece of coal. One man shined and did what was needed when he got to the finals never losing, while the other failed 6 out of 9 tries. Lebron has like 6 players to go through before he can even be mentioned in the same breath as MJ.

[Shaquille O'Neal]

Why wouldn't they be emotionally hurt? Their only option was witnessing mediocrity in the form of Lebron while their elders witnessed pure GOAT level basketball in the form of MJ. It's like comparing a diamond to a piece of coal. One man shined and did what was needed when he got to the finals never losing, while the other failed 6 out of 9 tries. Lebron has like 6 players to go through before he can even be mentioned in the same breath as MJ.



:bowdown::applause:
I feel bad for these kids really. They translate games in HD = better than 80's/90's ball due to lower quality resolution.
This era from about 2005 - 2020 or so will be known as the dark days of the NBA. Superteams, no defense, collusion, faux goats, etc.

The league really needs to clean this crap up.

[ImKobe]

So he was always on the stacked team. He was the Warriors.

Cool. Got it...Like we thought.

"stacked team" He didn't have a 2nd star scoring 20+ ppg every season. Heck, Pippen couldn't average more than 22 ppg without him. He won 72 games with only two guys on his team putting up more than 10+ ppg.

Do you not understand how crazy that is? Oh and he led a team to 62 wins with Pippen missing half the season, he was 35. His teams won more games from 96-98 than 16-18 Warriors and went 3 - 0 in the Finals. He didn't have an MVP-caliber teammate on his roster either.

[egokiller]

:bowdown::applause:
I feel bad for these kids really. They translate games in HD = better than 80's/90's ball due to lower quality resolution.
This era from about 2005 - 2020 or so will be known as the dark days of the NBA. Superteams, no defense, collusion, faux goats, etc.

The league really needs to clean this crap up.

Yep and once it is cleaned up no one will give a shit about who did what during those years. It won't be weighted as heavily as the eras that were clean.

[sportjames23]

egokiller, Shaq and ImKobe slayin' these young bucks left and right. :bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown:

[bullettooth]

Jordan was the "one who knocks". He was the 70+ win team.


Only NBA team in history to win 70+ and the chip, and Mike was league MVP and Finals MVP that year, along with the scoring champ.


At at 33. Nothing anyone else has done can top that team/personal achievement.

I approve of the Heisenberg reference.

[BigShotBob]

I hated Jordan but and I hated all of his opponents for losing to him but that doesn't mean they weren't all-time great teams.

Jordan was the difference. He was the beginning and the end.

At least my Pistons spanked him so I take pride in those memories.

[Shaquille O'Neal]

I hated Jordan but and I hated all of his opponents for losing to him but that doesn't mean they weren't all-time great teams.

Jordan was the difference. He was the beginning and the end.

At least my Pistons spanked him so I take pride in those memories.



I always rooted for whatever team he was playing against. Phoenix in 93 and the two Jazz years especially. He was just too damn good - got tired of watching him win all the time. Hell how many league MVPs did he not win due to the same reason?

When I watch these old games from the 80's and 90's I feel like "men played" back then - hard fouls, handchecking, tight defense, big men, guarding the paint, interior passing. That was basketball. Not a no defense 3 pt. clunkfest.