ESPN posts top 20

[Rico2016]

I found the ESPN top 20 list

http://i67.tinypic.com/dbntvp.jpg


*notables include: MJ #1, Kareem #2, LeBron #3, Kobe #12, Dirk #17

I’m fine with this list. Is there anything that sticks out to you?

[UK2K]

Shaq should be higher.

He was the single most dominant player to ever play the game. Period

[coin24]

This lame shit again:lol

Kobe routinely ran a train on the Spurs, why would anyone have duncan over gawdbe:oldlol:

[Mr. Jabbar]

so routinely beating roy hibbert to get to the finals makes you top 3

damn.. :lol

[k0kakw0rld]

Always the same damn topics. The same damn lists, nothing changed bro. What new information are you bringing to us? :confusedshrug:

[kennethgriffen]

well thats it for me. i'm out of here. my life has meant nothing




if anyone wants to carry on my legacy my password is "bootsboots"

[k0kakw0rld]

so routinely beating roy hibbert to get to the finals makes you top 3

damn.. :lol
Beating a 73-9 being down 1-3
3 titltes
4 MVPs
3 FMVPs
3x All Star MVP
30K+ points

More accolades than anyone except MJ and Kareem.

You and the rest of the Kobetards can stay outside of the top 10 club, reminiscing about the little time Kobe has spent in the TOP 10 before LeBron and Duncan pushed him out.

[sbw19]

Is it more newsworthy though than this Tim Donaghy article (http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/25980368/how-former-ref-tim-donaghy-conspired-fix-nba-games) that tops all records @ 50+ PgDn length?

Matter of time before another betting scandal hits the league now that they're legalizing sports betting, mark my words.

[kennethgriffen]

dubeta here

:lol

[kennethgriffen]

:roll: :roll: :roll:


And just like that the Bron family has officially won ISH. We da bess :banana:

[Kawhi]

This lame shit again:lol

Kobe routinely ran a train on the Spurs, why would anyone have duncan over gawdbe:oldlol:
Because the great Tim Duncan is better in almost every notable facet of the game of basketball.

[k0kakw0rld]

:roll: :roll: :roll:


And just like that the Bron family has officially won ISH. We da bess :banana:
Kill yourself...Do us all a favor...You are a loser just like the rest of you kobetards.

See, I don't follow people. No sir, I am a leader. You should follow my example since you a follower.

[k0kakw0rld]

This lame shit again:lol

Kobe routinely ran a train on the Spurs, why would anyone have duncan over gawdbe:oldlol:
Yet LeBron is 16-6 against Kobe but for some strange reason, you still believe Kobe > LeBron. Even though, LeBron routinely manhandled Kobe whenever they faced each other.

You too, should kill yourself before it's too late. By late, I mean you making babies to add more Kobetards on earth.

[Akrazotile]

dubeta here

:lol



:roll:

[SouBeachTalents]

This shit is from 3 years ago

[Ben Simmons 25]

:roll: :roll: :roll:


And just like that the Bron family has officially won ISH. We da bess :banana:

Welp that’s the end of stupidity flowing out of this account... lol.

[Ghost1]

This shit is from 3 years ago

ESPN made this list in 2016, after the finals if I'm not mistaken.


LeHose James took over #1 since the last update, IMO.. :pimp:

[3ball]

Someone who only goes 2/4 with Wade isn't #3. That's a joke

The problem with rankings is that they omit "fit" (with teammates), which is a skill, and based on skill, and determines how good your team is. Even at their best, lebron/wade were favorites for only 1 year.

Lebron rarely fit well with teammates, rarely had great teamwork, so he rarely won at the championship level, and needed an extra all-star to do it compared to MJ/Kobe

We can't even consider whether MJ or Kobe could beat lebron's Finals comp because we'd have to give them another all-star teammate like lebron had - since they won 11 rings with just 1 all-star teammate, they'd be unfathomable with an extra all-star like Bron had

[coin24]

Yet LeBron is 16-6 against Kobe but for some strange reason, you still believe Kobe > LeBron. Even though, LeBron routinely manhandled Kobe whenever they faced each other.

You too, should kill yourself before it's too late. By late, I mean you making babies to add more Kobetards on earth.


Poor wheels, did they leave you alone in the basement again?? Is it time for a diaper change??

[LAmbruh]

:dancin :hammertime:

[k0kakw0rld]

Poor wheels, did they leave you alone in the basement again?? Is it time for a diaper change??
Yeah and it was a mistake bro. Where do I put the dirty blankets bro? Your mom came all over your bed in the basement, last night.

[3ball]

We know lebron isn't #3

because a player can't be #3 if they NEEDED a couple lucky bounces to have more than 1 ring

without ray or kyrie's shots, lebron has 1 ring - a guy that might be a 1-ring bum can't be ranked that high.. :confusedshrug:.
.

[LAmbruh]

The Consensus strikes again!

[Hey Yo]

This lame shit again:lol

Kobe routinely ran a train on the Spurs, why would anyone have duncan over gawdbe:oldlol:
Kobe only faced the Spurs twice in the playoffs.

[G0ATbe]

Still #12? :(

[Mr Feeny]

Kobe only faced the Spurs twice in the playoffs.

You know nothing about basketball. Seriously.

Please never write again.

[Hey Yo]

You know nothing about basketball. Seriously.

Please never write again.
Yeah, I was wrong.

Kobe only faced the Spurs once in the playoffs as the Lakers franchise player (2008) What he did after Shaq got traded is what really counts. Sidekick years do not.

[Mr Feeny]

Yeah, I was wrong.

Kobe only faced the Spurs once in the playoffs as the Lakers franchise player (2008) What he did after Shaq got traded is what really counts. Sidekick years do not.

My man. Come on:facepalm :oldlol: we know you hate him and tbf he's a narcissist but come on:oldlol:

[Hey Yo]

My man. Come on:facepalm :oldlol: we know you hate him and tbf he's a narcissist but come on:oldlol:
If you want to be talked about among the best, then you use the stats when you were considered the best player on your team. The franchise player. That didn't happen for Kobe until 2005.

[SouBeachTalents]

If you want to be talked about among the best, then you use the stats when you were considered the best player on your team. The franchise player. That didn't happen for Kobe until 2005.
But Kobe was better than Shaq against the Spurs in '01 & '02

[3ball]

If you want to be talked about among the best, then you use the stats when you were considered the best player on your team. The franchise player. That didn't happen for Kobe until 2005.
And the jordan playing style once again won multiple rings with just one other all-star

So proven across eras.. :bowdown:

Jordan style is simply the best way to yield the best chemistry and teamwork, so the team doesn't need ridiculous talent like lebron needs with his lower ball movement style.

That's why MJ is 6/6 and #1 on the list

[sportjames23]

And the jordan playing style once again won multiple rings with just one other all-star

So proven across eras.. :bowdown:

Jordan style is simply the best way to yield the best chemistry and teamwork, so the team doesn't need ridiculous talent like lebron needs with his lower ball movement style.

That's why MJ is 6/6 and #1 on the list


#Facts :cheers:

[bigkingsfan]

well thats it for me. i'm out of here. my life has meant nothing




if anyone wants to carry on my legacy my password is "bootsboots"
Talk about unstable. You're better off without ish.

[k0kakw0rld]

And the jordan playing style once again won multiple rings with just one other all-star

So proven across eras.. :bowdown:

Jordan style is simply the best way to yield the best chemistry and teamwork, so the team doesn't need ridiculous talent like lebron needs with his lower ball movement style.

That's why MJ is 6/6 and #1 on the list
Teams better than anything MJ faced in the finals
13 Spurs
14 Spurs
15 Warriors
16 Warriors
17 Warriors
18 Warriors
19 Warriors

MJ ain't shit. Yes I said it. Kill yourself too 3ball

[TheCorporation]

:dancin :hammertime:

,:dancin

12be :lebronamazed:

LBJ should be ranked 1 but whatever

[TheCorporation]

Teams better than anything MJ faced in the finals
13 Spurs
14 Spurs
15 Warriors
16 Warriors
17 Warriors
18 Warriors
19 Warriors

MJ ain't shit. Yes I said it.l
100% FACTS

[baudkarma]

This lame shit again:lol

Kobe routinely ran a train on the Spurs, why would anyone have duncan over gawdbe:oldlol:

Kobe is 21-31 lifetime when playing against Duncan. 39-43 if you count the playoffs, with 14 of those 18 playoff wins coming when Shaq was leading the Lakers and doing all the heavy lifting.

[TheCorporation]

Kobe is 21-31 lifetime when playing against Duncan. 39-43 if you count the playoffs, with 14 of those 18 playoff wins coming when Shaq was leading the Lakers and doing all the heavy lifting.

:roll: :roll: caught

[Ghost1]

https://i.makeagif.com/media/5-09-2015/XqrtBU.gif

[3ball]

Teams better than anything MJ faced in the finals

13 Spurs
14 Spurs
15 Warriors
16 Warriors
17 Warriors
18 Warriors
19 Warriors


MJ won with less (only 1 all-star teammate) and would've been unfathomable with 2 like lebron had to face the Spurs and Warriors

Heck, Lebron teamed up with Wade..:confusedshrug: .. that alone gave him the most talent in the league and he was favored against the Spurs.. against the Warriors, he had another big 3 that was favored in 15' (http://insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=13604265&postcount=35) before kyrie went down





Kill yourself too 3ball


List the players MJ defeated in the playoffs: Magic, Shaq, Isiah, Ewing, Malone, Barkley, Drexler, Payton, Dominique

Those guys rank higher overall than Duncan, Curry, Durant, and then crap like DeRozan, Horford.... And obviously, shaq/penny destroy hibbert/george... And garnett/pierce/allen were all 35 years old when lebron beat them, while Isiah/dumars/rodman were 27-29 when MJ beat them

And on and on.. MJ faced and defeated better players than lebron.. :confusedshrug:





MJ ain't shit. Yes I said it.


All of MJ's wins except 92' was like beating the equivalent of a Spurs-level team

The Spurs sometimes had higher net efficiency because they faced weaker comp in the late 00's than the stacked 90's west - it was 3-4 spurs teams playing each other back then, hence them taking turns losing to MJ in the Finals as 60-win Finals losers.. So MJ would smash the Spurs.. 3-0 in Lebron's shoes

And look at the 2 times MJ faced Duncan in 98' - dominated him, won without pippen.. sure Duncan was only the most prepared rookie ever

[r0drig0lac]

Magic is very high on this list and D-Rob is better than Stockton

[3ball]

I found the ESPN top 20 list

http://i67.tinypic.com/dbntvp.jpg


*notables include: MJ #1, Kareem #2, LeBron #3, Kobe #12, Dirk #17

I’m fine with this list. Is there anything that sticks out to you?
So MJ beat 5 guys on the list.. set the playoff record against another..

and Isiah who must've barely missed the list

He also played against nearly everyone on the list

[game3524]

Oscar is really overrated.

[elementally morale]

Is it more newsworthy though than this Tim Donaghy article (http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/25980368/how-former-ref-tim-donaghy-conspired-fix-nba-games) that tops all records @ 50+ PgDn length?

Matter of time before another betting scandal hits the league now that they're legalizing sports betting, mark my words.




I watched the video and I don't really understand what it means. (I do speak English.)

So... what does it mean? What exactly did Tim Donaghy do? Was he making the right calls or not? How did this work?

[TheCorporation]

Shaq should be higher.

He was the single most dominant player to ever play the game. Period

Agreed. He should be higher no doubt.

:dancin :hammertime:

The Consensus always striking! :dancin



Still #12? :(

He tried his best :(


ESPN made this list in 2016, after the finals if I'm not mistaken.


LeHose James took over #1 since the last update, IMO.. :pimp:

He should be at least #2, but yes I agree should be #1

[TheCorporation]

So MJ beat 5 guys on the list.. set the playoff record against another..

and Isiah who must've barely missed the list

He also played against nearly everyone on the list

Yeah but are you still dumb enough to deny LeBron is at worst #3 all time? That's the big question

[And1AllDay]

1. James
2. Bryant
3. Magic
4. Kareem
5. Shaq
6. Hakeem
7. Dirk
8. Bird
9. Jordan (1-9)
10. Who cares

[Gus Hemmingway]

another landslide victory :banana:

[sbw19]

Was he making the right calls or not? At this point that hardly matters. The moment you legalize betting you're essentially opening Pandora's box and it's a matter of time before the story of another Donaghy surfaces again.

Irony is reffing often isn't fair, but what makes it real suspect is money seeping through the cracks.

[Mr Feeny]

1. James
2. Bryant
3. Magic
4. Kareem
5. Shaq
6. Hakeem
7. Dirk
8. Bird
9. Jordan (1-9)
10. Who cares

Why Is Kobe even within 9 spots of LeBron?:roll: :roll:

[TheCorporation]

another landslide victory :banana:

We Bron boys stay winning :banana:

[Jasper]

I wouldn't have Kobe in the top 15 , he rode coat tails of Shaq and Pau.

[Big164]

When you Exclude Celtics & Lakers Bandwagoneers!

1. Michael Jordan
2. Steph Curry
3. Hakeem Olajuwon
4. Tim Duncan
5. Kevin Durant
6. Oscar Robertson
7. Dirk Nowitxky
8. Julius Irving
9. Dywayne Wade
10. Isaiah Thomas

[3ball]

Yeah but are you still dumb enough to deny LeBron is at worst #3 all time? That's the big question
Lebron is no different from westbrook - suboptimal triple-double style that doesn't win without team-hopping..

except Russell didn't get to team-hop.. nor did he get media favoritism... or have clutch sidekicks hit the big shots in 16' vs Warriors like lebron had with Kyrie and Ray Allen before that

So no, lebron's Westbrook approach to the game is simply overlooked by dumb fans like you, who put such a non-winning, selfish style at #3; a joke to anyone that understands the game and values winning basketball

[TheCorporation]

Lebron is no different from westbrook - suboptimal triple-double style that doesn't win without team-hopping..

except Russell didn't get to team-hop.. nor did he get media favoritism... or have clutch sidekicks hit the big shots in 16' vs Warriors like lebron had with Kyrie and Ray Allen before that

So no, lebron's Westbrook approach to the game is simply overlooked by dumb fans like you, who put such a non-winning, selfish style at #3; a joke to anyone that understands the game and values winning basketball

TheCorp: Are you still dumb enough to deny LeBron is at worst #3 all time? That's the big question.

--
3ball: Yes, I am still dumb enough.

--

TheCorp: https://i.postimg.cc/3xvsz3zB/CanineOldGalapagospenguin-max-1mb.gif

[3ball]

TheCorp: Are you still dumb enough to deny LeBron is at worst #3 all time? That's the big question.

--
3ball: Yes, I am still dumb enough.

--

TheCorp: https://i.postimg.cc/3xvsz3zB/CanineOldGalapagospenguin-max-1mb.gif
Lebron isn't top 3 or anywhere near

My 5 year old plays a better brand of ball; the media is just dumb and doesn't know how to explain 3/9 the way they should

Like, if a player literally "doesn't know how (https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=X8b3WV-dz6Q&t=03m57s) to play off-ball", then they have a major skill deficit and aren't anywhere near goat.

This leads to weaker teams and championship record.. but again, the media is too dumb to understand or explain what's actually been going on

[TheCorporation]

Lebron isn't top 3 or anywhere near

My 5 year old plays a better brand of ball; the media is just dumb and doesn't know how to explain 3/9 the way they should

Like, if a player literally "[url=https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=X8b3WV-dz6Q&t=03m57sdoesn't know how[/url] to play off-ball", then they have a major skill deficit and aren't anywhere near goat


https://i.postimg.cc/cH1y56C8/scoring-race.png

If 10 Finals, super longevity Kareem couldn't do it
If 6 Finals, I lost three times in first round MJ couldn't do it
If MDE Shaq couldn't do it
If most skilled Kobe scoring assassin couldn't do it

Only one man passed them all :pimp:

King GOAT James #1

#2 Jordan
#Kareem

Sorry for this my good friend

[3ball]

https://i.postimg.cc/cH1y56C8/scoring-race.png

If 10 Finals, super longevity Kareem couldn't do it
If 6 Finals, I lost three times in first round MJ couldn't do it
If MDE Shaq couldn't do it
If most skilled Kobe scoring assassin couldn't do it

Only one man passed them all :pimp:

King GOAT James #1

#2 Jordan
#Kareem

Sorry for this my good friend
Lebron's westbrook skillset/brand of ball is suboptimal and doesn't win

So he isn't top 10

B-b-but he has 3 rings..... only by teaming up, which any great player can do

Again, if a player literally "doesn't know how (https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=X8b3WV-dz6Q&t=03m57s) to play off-ball", then they have a major skill deficit and aren't anywhere near goat.

This leads to weaker teams and championship record.. but again, the media is too dumb to understand or explain what's actually been going on

[Hey Yo]

We know lebron isn't #3

because a player can't be #3 if they NEEDED a couple lucky bounces to have more than 1 ring

without ray or kyrie's shots, lebron has 1 ring - a guy that might be a 1-ring bum can't be ranked that high.. :confusedshrug:.
.
Without Pippens defense and Rodman's rebounding titles, Jordan has ZERO rings.

[kennethgriffen]

we win again boyz. the time is ours!


:djparty :hammertime: :djparty :hammertime:




12be fans don't even know what hit em



shockwaves felt through the basketball world!



maybe i'll put off killing myself afterall


- dubeta





























aaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhh F*UUUUCK!
https://i.imgur.com/BTUE27t.gif

[3ball]

Without Pippens defense and Rodman's rebounding titles, Jordan has ZERO rings.
That goes for any team - any team needs defense and rebounding

But without ray and kyrie shots, lebron loses those series on the spot - he needed those shots to win or he's a 1-ring bum (to knowledgeable fans, he'll always be a 1-ring bum)

And rodman averaged 4/8 for the entire 97' playoffs, and wasn't even the starter for the 98' playoffs (4/8 in those Finals).. so the bulls didn't need rodman in 97' or 98' and actually won with kukoc at PF in 98'.. :confusedshrug:..

Ultimately, lebron needed an extra all-star/olympian to win his rings.. MJ won with less (only 1 all-star teammate) and would've been unfathomable with 2 like lebron had to face the Spurs and Warriors

[Hey Yo]

That goes for any team - any team needs defense and rebounding

But without ray and kyrie shots, lebron loses those series on the spot - he needed those shots to win or he's a 1-ring bum (to knowledgeable fans, he'll always be a 1-ring bum)

And rodman averaged 4/8 for the entire 97' playoffs, and wasn't even the starter for the 98' playoffs (4/8 in those Finals).. so the bulls didn't need rodman in 97' or 98' and actually won with kukoc at PF in 98'.. :confusedshrug:..

Ultimately, lebron needed an extra all-star/olympian to win his rings.. MJ won with less (only 1 all-star teammate) and would've been unfathomable with 2 like lebron had to face the Spurs and Warriors
All 3 of LeBron's rings he led the team in points, rebounds and assists. MJ never did that. He just concentrated on scoring while others did all the leg work.

Let me know when MJ can win a Finals game when 2 starters and his best 3pt shooter coming off the bench can go an entire game (a combined 67mins) w/o scoring, yet still win the game.

Not hard to figure out who had more help and who was asked to do the most.

[kennethgriffen]

All 3 of LeBron's rings he led the team in points, rebounds and assists. MJ never did that. He just concentrated on scoring while others did all the leg work.

Let me know when MJ can win a Finals game when 2 starters and his best 3pt shooter coming off the bench can go an entire game (a combined 67mins) w/o scoring, yet still win the game.

Not hard to figure out who had more help and who was asked to do the most.


lebron leading his teams in every category is WHY he lost more finals than he's won


him chasing rebounds/cheating on passing lanes cost his teams defensively

him chasing assists cost his teams offensively

him protecting his fg% cost his teams opportunities

him shying away from contact late in games out of fear of going to the free throw line cost them game 1 of the 2018 nba finals

[Gus Hemmingway]

ah so this is why everyone calls him 12be



makes sense

[kennethgriffen]

ah so this is why everyone calls him 12be



makes sense


we win again brother


its like 2016 all over again

[3ball]

MJ just concentrated on scoring while others did all the leg work.


MJ led the bulls in APG for 6 of 9 playoff runs alongside Pippen and assisted on the most bulls' FG's for both 3-peats:



Assist Percentage 1991-1993 Playoffs:

Jordan: 31.1%
Pippen: 23.3%

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/j/jordami01.html#1991-1993-sum:playoffs_advanced
http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/p/pippesc01.html#1991-1993-sum:playoffs_advanced


Assist Percentage 1996-1998 Playoffs:

Jordan: 22.3%
Pippen: 22.0%

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/j/jordami01.html#1996-1998-sum:playoffs_advanced
http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/p/pippesc01.html#1996-1998-sum:playoffs_advanced

[3ball]

Not hard to figure out who had more help and who was asked to do the most.


it's JUST scoring... :rolleyes: ... who cares about that right?... :coleman:

Show me a player that averaged over 30 in the playoffs, let alone 33.5 like MJ

MJ also led his team in passing as the previous stats show - mj's goat scoring burden, team-leading passing, and goat defense at his position is the most anyone has ever had to do... :confusedshrug: ... But keep acting like 5 more points on better efficiency (ortg) is nothing - it's huge - lebron would be an entirely more dominant player with 5 more ppg on better efficiency per possession

Jordan never had a teammate that was an elite, lethal scorer like Wade or Kyrie to carry an equal scoring burden or command a double team - the bulls were always a 1-man show on offense and MJ's goat scoring burden is more than anything lebron had to do.. i.e. 41/9/6 > 30/11/10... Only MJ scored 10-20 more than his 2nd option to win all his Finals, compared to 2-6 points for lebron over his 2nd option.. no comparison.. MJ had to do much more, and the media/lebron fans are literally D-U-M-B

[3ball]

.
Stats needed for rings:


Jordan averaged 33.7 and 6.6 apg in 91-93' PO...

Lebron averaged 27.2 and 7.2 apg in 12/13/16' PO

:confusedshrug:


MJ had to do more to win







Full stats:


THRU 31 YEARS OLD.. (playoff stats are linked to source data)




PLAYOFFS PER GAME



Jordan (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/j/jordami01.html#1985-1993-sum:playoffs_per_game):. 34.7 ppg.. 6.7 rpg.. 6.6 apg.. 2.3 spg.. 1.0 bpg.. 50.1 fg.. 58.1 ts.. 119 ortg.. 29.6 PER
Lebron (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/j/jamesle01.html):. 28.0 ppg.. 8.8 rpg.. 6.8 apg.. 1.8 spg.. 0.9 bpg.. 47.8 fg.. 56.7 ts.. 115 ortg.. 27.7 PER




PLAYOFFS PER 100 POSSESSIONS



Jordan (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/j/jordami01.html#1985-1993-sum:playoffs_per_poss
):I 43.9 pts..N 8.5 reb.. 8.4 ast.. 4.2 tov.. 2.9 stl.. 1.2 blk.. 50.1 fg.. 58.1 ts.. 119 ortg.. 29.6 PER
Lebron (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/j/jamesle01.html):. 36.4 pts.. 11.5 reb.. 8.8 ast.. 4.6 tov.. 2.3 stl.. 1.2 blk.. 47.8 fg.. 56.7 ts.. 115 ortg.. 27.7 PER




FINALS PER GAME:



Jordan Finals:. 36.3 ppg.. 6.6 rpg.. 7.9 apg.. 2.7 tov.. 2.0 spg.. 0.8 bpg.. 52.6 fg
Lebron Finals:. 27.0 ppg.. 9.9 rpg.. 7.2 apg.. 4.0 tov.. 1.9 spg.. 0.8 bpg.. 45.4 fg



Jordan's first 3 rings required 25-33% more scoring with better efficiency than Lebron's 3 rings, while still getting equal or greater assists... :eek:

[bigkingsfan]

Scoring is overrated, see Bill Russell.

All time playoff scoring average.

1. Michael Jordan* 33.45
2. Allen Iverson* 29.73
3. Jerry West* 29.13
4. LeBron James 28.92
5. Kevin Durant 28.79
6. Rick Barry* 27.33
7. Elgin Baylor* 27.04
8. George Gervin* 26.46
9. Stephen Curry 26.09
10. Hakeem Olajuwon* 25.90
11. Kobe Bryant 25.64
12. Russell Westbrook 25.54
13. Bob Pettit* 25.45
14. Dominique Wilkins* 25.41
15. Dirk Nowitzki 25.26
16. Connie Hawkins* 25.00
17. Karl Malone* 24.67
18. Bernard King* 24.54
19. Carmelo Anthony 24.50
20. Alex English* 24.43

[3ball]

All time playoff scoring average.

1. Michael Jordan* 33.45
2. Allen Iverson* 29.73
3. Jerry West* 29.13
4. LeBron James 28.92
5. Kevin Durant 28.79
6. Rick Barry* 27.33
7. Elgin Baylor* 27.04
8. George Gervin* 26.46
9. Stephen Curry 26.09
10. Hakeem Olajuwon* 25.90
11. Kobe Bryant 25.64
12. Russell Westbrook 25.54
13. Bob Pettit* 25.45
14. Dominique Wilkins* 25.41
15. Dirk Nowitzki 25.26
16. Connie Hawkins* 25.00
17. Karl Malone* 24.67
18. Bernard King* 24.54
19. Carmelo Anthony 24.50
20. Alex English* 24.43


Scoring is overrated, see Bill Russell.



Not at high efficiency

When a player can score with high efficiency per possession, the best action is to have them score over anything else - this requires a player's ortg exceed the best offenses (so 114-115 or greater):



Per 100 Possessions in Playoffs:

JORDAN:.. 43.3 pts.. 118 ORtg.. 35.6 usg
LEBRON:.. 37.2 pts.. 116 ORtg.. 32.2 usg
DURANT:. 36.3 pts.. 115 ORtg.. 30.5 usg
KOBE:...... 34.7 pts.. 110 ORtg.. 31.0 usg
WADE:..... 32.2 pts.. 108 ORtg.. 30.1 usg
HARDEN:. 32.0 pts.. 113 ORtg.. 28.1 usg

(Harden 17' and 18' PO: 38.9 pts, 110 ortg, 36.2 usg)


So mj's produced the most (43.3 pts) at higher efficiency than everyone (118 ortg).. so he provided more (points) of a good thing (ortg)

Btw, considering the #2 thru #6 guys are between 32 and 36 points, you'd think the #1 guy would be at 37 or 38... But MJ is at 43.3 points, far above the pack and in another tier
.

[LAmbruh]

that gap between Top 3 and Top 12th :lol






respect the gap

[TheCorporation]

ah so this is why everyone calls him 12be



makes sense

Yes indeed, it has been confirmed :cheers:

[3ball]

Yes indeed, it has been confirmed :cheers:

MJ did the most:



Per 100 Possessions in Playoffs:

JORDAN:.. 43.3 pts.. 118 ORtg.. 35.6 usg
LEBRON:.. 37.2 pts.. 116 ORtg.. 32.2 usg
DURANT:. 36.3 pts.. 115 ORtg.. 30.5 usg
KOBE:...... 34.7 pts.. 110 ORtg.. 31.0 usg
WADE:..... 32.2 pts.. 108 ORtg.. 30.1 usg
HARDEN:. 32.0 pts.. 113 ORtg.. 28.1 usg

(Harden 17' and 18' PO: 38.9 pts, 110 ortg, 36.2 usg)


So mj's produced the most (43.3 pts) at higher efficiency than everyone (118 ortg).. so he provided more (points) of a good thing (ortg)

Btw, considering the #2 thru #6 guys are between 32 and 36 points, you'd think the #1 guy would be at 37 or 38... But MJ is at 43.3 points, far above the pack and in another tier

[bigkingsfan]

Mj three highest scoring playoffs, he got swept in the first round, then ecf.

[diamenz]

All 3 of LeBron's rings he led the team in points, rebounds and assists. MJ never did that. He just concentrated on scoring while others did all the leg work.

Let me know when MJ can win a Finals game when 2 starters and his best 3pt shooter coming off the bench can go an entire game (a combined 67mins) w/o scoring, yet still win the game.

Not hard to figure out who had more help and who was asked to do the most.

it was mj's primary job to score within the system. the triangle wasn't a pnr drive & dish machine. those bulls teams were built on cohesion, coaching and defense. mj put them over the top when they needed buckets. somehow i think u know this but u just wanna argue the same talking points over and over.

[Manny98]

2ball melting hard itt :oldlol:

[Rico2016]

Where is Kobe?

[kennethgriffen]

Where is Kobe?

BRON FAM WINS THE INTERWEBS

:djparty :hammertime: :djparty :hammertime:

[Rico2016]

BRON FAM WINS THE INTERWEBS

:djparty :hammertime: :djparty :hammertime:

No I'm serious I scrolled through top 10 real quickly but I didn't see him in there??

Do I need to keep scrolling?

Scrollbe?

[kennethgriffen]

No I'm serious I scrolled through top 10 real quickly but I didn't see him in there??

Do I need to keep scrolling?

Scrollbe?


we da bess

we won the 2016th interweb

:party:

[Rico2016]

we da bess

we won the 2016th interweb

:party:

12th, BUT WHY???

[kennethgriffen]

12th, BUT WHY???

2016 is our year

:cheers:

[Rico2016]

2016 is our year

:cheers:

Well that much should be obvious considering no player has ever done as much in the history of sports

[Da_Realist]

lebron leading his teams in every category is WHY he lost more finals than he's won


him chasing rebounds/cheating on passing lanes cost his teams defensively

him chasing assists cost his teams offensively

him protecting his fg% cost his teams opportunities

him shying away from contact late in games out of fear of going to the free throw line cost them game 1 of the 2018 nba finals

PREACH

LeBron brought playground ball to the NBA

[And1AllDay]

2ball melting hard itt :oldlol:

:oldlol:

[And1AllDay]

No I'm serious I scrolled through top 10 real quickly but I didn't see him in there??

Do I need to keep scrolling?

Scrollbe?

ScrollBe :eek:

[NBASTATMAN]

I thought ESPN had Kobe top 10 :confusedshrug:

I know some of the other mags had him 12th but I believed ESPN had Kobe top 10.. What happened ? New list

[And1AllDay]

I thought ESPN had Kobe top 10 :confusedshrug:

I know some of the other mags had him 12th but I believed ESPN had Kobe top 10.. What happened ? New list

I guess he didn't make the cut

Scrollbe :(

[NBASTATMAN]

I guess he didn't make the cut

Scrollbe :(


Even ESPN mag has him out of the top 10!!!! This is Hilarious. :roll: :banana: :rockon: :applause:

[And1AllDay]

Even ESPN mag has him out of the top 10!!!! This is Hilarious. :roll: :banana: :rockon: :applause:

12be :( Geeze

[NBASTATMAN]

I wonder if they took him out of top 10 after they saw this

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IDLDX10L4OU :roll:

[And1AllDay]

I wonder if they took him out of top 10 after they saw this

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IDLDX10L4OU :roll:

Good gawd that was baaaad

[Duncan21formvp]

How is he ahead of me, when I beat the s*** out of him everytime?

[NBASTATMAN]

How is he ahead of me, when I beat the s*** out of him everytime?


Cuz you choked in 2013 and missed two chippies that could have tied the game.. :roll:

[knicksman]

the opinion of 1 alpha is worth more than the million sheeps in this world. So if jordan says only kobe is worth comparing to him then that opinion matters more. If durant says jordan, kobe are the top 2 GOATs, then that opinion matters more.

[Rico2016]

Cuz you choked in 2013 and missed two chippies that could have tied the game.. :roll:

Don't forget he blew a one seed to an eight seed in the first round :eek:

[TheCorporation]

Even ESPN mag has him out of the top 10!!!! This is Hilarious. :roll: :banana: :rockon: :applause:

Yikes

[kennethgriffen]

Yikes


someones insecure about this

https://i.ibb.co/bLWJ649/Screen-Shot-2019-03-31-at-11-10-33-PM.png

https://www.ranker.com/crowdranked-list/the-top-nba-players-of-all-time

[SpaceJam2]

[QUOTE=Rico2016]I found the ESPN top 20 list

http://i67.tinypic.com/dbntvp.jpg


*notables include: MJ #1, Kareem #2, LeBron #3, Kobe #12, Dirk #17

I

[Ass Dan]

Malone is so overrated.

Dirk, Barkley and even KG better.

[And1AllDay]

Malone is so overrated.

Dirk, Barkley and even KG better.
:applause: :cheers:

[SpaceJam2]

Malone is so overrated.

Dirk, Barkley and even KG better.

Where's the lie :rockon:

[SpaceJam2]

Even ESPN mag has him out of the top 10!!!! This is Hilarious. :roll: :banana: :rockon: :applause:

So Does Fox Sports and Seat Geeks

[SpaceJam2]

someones insecure about this

https://i.ibb.co/bLWJ649/Screen-Shot-2019-03-31-at-11-10-33-PM.png

https://www.ranker.com/crowdranked-list/the-top-nba-players-of-all-time

Any updates to this list? :confusedshrug:

Edit: Wow I just checked and Kobe is now 11th :lol

[Celtics 1825]

Any updates to this list? :confusedshrug:

Edit: Wow I just checked and Kobe is now 11th :lol
He is! :eek: :roll:

And he can't even accuse Bran stans of using alts/bots because LeBron only went up from 11 to 10.

[SpaceJam2]

He is! :eek: :roll:

And he can't even accuse Bran stans of using alts/bots because LeBron only went up from 11 to 10.

11be, 12be

The Consensus strikes again

[Manny98]

Any updates to this list? :confusedshrug:

Edit: Wow I just checked and Kobe is now 11th :lol
:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

[RRR3]

So wait, kenny pretended to give away his account just to impersonate dubeta but then was so triggered by LeBron as usual he couldn’t even keep it up for the whole thread? :roll:



Kenny defend this one :lol

[Doranku]

I would LOVE to hear any rational argument for Oscar Roberston > Kobe. :lol The most impressive he did in his career was average a triple double... which Russell Westbrook has now done 3 seasons in a row.

ONE sidekick ring, zero FMVPs, 5 first round exits in 10 playoff appearances. What an absolute joke.

[SpaceJam2]

[QUOTE=RRR3]So wait, kenny pretended to give away his account just to impersonate dubeta but then was so triggered by LeBron as usual he couldn

[Celtics 1825]

I would LOVE to hear any rational argument for Oscar Roberston > Kobe. :lol The most impressive he did in his career was average a triple double... which Russell Westbrook has now done 3 seasons in a row.

ONE sidekick ring, zero FMVPs, 5 first round exits in 10 playoff appearances. What an absolute joke.
Oscar isn't above Kobe, but Oscar also isn't in most people's top 10 (or at least shouldn't be).

[SpaceJam2]

https://i.postimg.cc/QtTcRFL4/FB_IMG_1528921326607.jpg

:eek:

[Rico2016]

What a time to be alive

LeBron is top 3
Kobe is 12th

All is good and balanced in the basketball world

[TheCorporation]

What a time to be alive

LeBron is top 3
Kobe is 12th

All is good and balanced in the basketball world

LeBron is top 1 but I'll let that slide :pimp:

Kobe should be top...I'll let Kenny decide (so long as he doesn't put him higher than 7) :lol

[TheCorporation]

[QUOTE=Rico2016]I found the ESPN top 20 list

http://i67.tinypic.com/dbntvp.jpg


*notables include: MJ #1, Kareem #2, LeBron #3, Kobe #12, Dirk #17

I

[NBAGOAT]

shaq's too low, no on oscar over kobe. Stockton is too high and no kg in the top 20.

[TheCorporation]

shaq's too low, no on oscar over kobe. Stockton is too high and no kg in the top 20.

I used to think you were 3ball but maybe not. Hmmm, you have been posting a lot of good info lately (which 3ball never does) so now I'm thinking you aren't 3ball

I agree with everything you posted

[SpaceJam2]

LeBron is top 1 but I'll let that slide :pimp:

Kobe should be top...I'll let Kenny decide (so long as he doesn't put him higher than 7) :lol

Now's your chance...

[TheCorporation]

Does Curry, Kawhi, KD all have a chance to push Kobe further down the list?

[Mr Feeny]

Does Curry, Kawhi, KD all have a chance to push Kobe further down the list?

Curry, Kawhi, and Durant are all better than him. Curry is already ahead of him all time as is Kawhi. The next time a list like this is done, Kobe will be at 15th max. And hes dropping by the day :lebronamazed:

[TheCorporation]

Curry, Kawhi, and Durant are all better than him. Curry is already ahead of him all time as is Kawhi. The next time a list like this is done, Kobe will be at 15th max. And hes dropping by the day :lebronamazed:

Wow so does this mean...

16be ?! 20be ?!

[Phoenix]

Kawhi is now consensus top 3. Finals MVP in each conference, wins championship in first season with new team. Also, because VORP. :applause:

[TheCorporation]

Kawhi is now consensus top 3. Finals MVP in each conference, wins championship in first season with new team. Also, because VORP. :applause:


Wow so

LBJ
Kawhi
MJ

Solid top 3

6911 points

LeBar has been set. Let'a wait and see if Kawhi can do it. Or even pass MJ at 5.9k

[Phoenix]

Wow so

MJ
Kareem
Kawhi


Infallible logic. :applause:

[Mr Feeny]

[QUOTE=Rico2016]I found the ESPN top 20 list

http://i67.tinypic.com/dbntvp.jpg


*notables include: MJ #1, Kareem #2, LeBron #3, Kobe #12, Dirk #17

I

[Phoenix]

Curry, Kawhi, and Durant will all move up. I wonder whether any of them end up in the top 10.

Durant clearly has top 10 GOAT talent. Legacywise, winning the championships off the backs of the Warriors hasn't really elevated him, but then the Warriors lost this year and I think many reasonably assume they win with him there. I think the next 5 years will play the biggest part in how he's viewed years down the line.

[Mr Feeny]

Durant clearly has top 10 GOAT talent. Legacywise, winning the championships off the backs of the Warriors hasn't really elevated him, but then the Warriors lost this year and I think many reasonably assume they win with him there. I think the next 5 years will play the biggest part in how he's viewed years down the line.

I see your point. He hasn't gotten any credit for the title wins because the narrative has always been that he was superfluous. These past finals may change that but as we have seen on this board,there are those who are doubling down on their original assertions and claiming that even though the Warriors lost without Durant this year, that doesnt mean he was essential in the previous 2 years because the Warriors were better in the previous two years than they are now.

[NBAGOAT]

kawhi just likely doesnt have enough years left to get in the top 10. He'll have a 6 year prime by age 30, durant has a 9 year one. Durant achilles might ruin him but even without that, I saw him as a little overrated and finishing as a top 15 talent even if he has great accolades. All time great scoring but that isnt everything. Small edge over barkley, dirk, malone types eventually.

Curry is the one I'm looking at with a chance even though his prime is only 7 years. His peak is just ahead of those 2 imo, top 10 lvl. FMVP does hurt but meh idc that much, he's not great but fine as a playoff performer among superstars in say the top 20-30. Injury concerns can stop him but I feel like he's already like only a couple great years away from being a top 20 lock.

[Phoenix]

I see your point. He hasn't gotten any credit for the title wins because the narrative has always been that he was superfluous. These past finals may change that but as we have seen on this board,there are those who are doubling down on their original assertions and claiming that even though the Warriors lost without Durant this year, that doesnt mean he was essential in the previous 2 years because the Warriors were better in the previous two years than they are now.

Yep, pretty much a catch-22. That's why I believe the only way he can REALLY forge an inarguable legacy independent of the Warriors, would be to go elsewhere and build another team to championship status. It may not erase how people feel about his Warriors tenure, but he would have proven definitively that he can lead a team( that wasn't a previous champion/contender) to a title. The talent is undeniable, but that monkey is always going to be on his back in the court of public opinion.

[72-10]

Never in my life have I seen a retired Kobe Bryant ranked so far from the top by a so-called reliable media outlet. It's almost as though they do not adhere to a gigantic body of work and honest play.

[72-10]

Where is Curry?

[TheCorporation]

Never in my life have I seen a retired Kobe Bryant ranked so far from the top by a so-called reliable media outlet. It's almost as though they do not adhere to a gigantic body of work and honest play.

Are you kidding? Nearly every single outlet has him ranked outside of the top 10. Want me to bump that thread? :lol


Edit

Found it: http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?p=13759668#post13759668

[Vino24]

Consensus, Cemented, Irrefutable.

[scuzzy]

Where is Curry?
Behind Lowry

[Kiddlovesnets]

Kobe is the consensus 12th greatest player of all time. He can

[egokiller]

Does Curry, Kawhi, KD all have a chance to push Kobe further down the list?

Meltdown bumping a month old thread. And all because of this:

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=13759573&postcount=1

:roll: :roll: :roll:

[k0kakw0rld]

This lame shit again:lol

Kobe routinely ran a train on the Spurs, why would anyone have duncan over gawdbe:oldlol:
5/3/2 > 5/2/1 :confusedshrug:

[TheCorporation]

Consensus, Cemented, Irrefutable.

:bowdown: :bowdown:

[Rico2016]

I found the ESPN top 20 list

http://i67.tinypic.com/dbntvp.jpg


*notables include: MJ #1, Kareem #2, LeBron #3, Kobe #12, Dirk #17

I’m fine with this list. Is there anything that sticks out to you?


///*update*///

Will we soon see changes to this list:

https://i.postimg.cc/zD980QFP/top-20-ESPN.jpg

[Manny98]

[QUOTE=Rico2016]I found the ESPN top 20 list

http://i67.tinypic.com/dbntvp.jpg


*notables include: MJ #1, Kareem #2, LeBron #3, Kobe #12, Dirk #17

I

[Rico2016]

///*update*///

Will we soon see changes to this list:

https://i.postimg.cc/zD980QFP/top-20-ESPN.jpg


Comments?

I think BR now has Kobe top 15?

[Kiddlovesnets]

Shaq is too low

And KD & Curry should be top 20 over Stockton and Barkley

It was the same list from 2016, if they do it again in 2020 we should easily see Durant and Curry making it to top 20.


Any updates to this list? :confusedshrug:

Edit: Wow I just checked and Kobe is now 11th :lol

Now 12th, what a magical number.
:cheers:

[SpaceJam2]

///*update*///

Will we soon see changes to this list:

https://i.postimg.cc/zD980QFP/top-20-ESPN.jpg

12be :(