Larry Bird vs MJ = 23 wins-11 losses; Isiah Thomas vs MJ = 36 wins-29 losses

[k0kakw0rld]

Both playoffs and regular season

So according to many here

Kobe > Duncan because of the records

so Bird and Isiah > Jordan? :confusedshrug:

[tpols]

OP vs heterosexuality = 0 wins, 1 loss

[Marchesk]

It's almost as if team context matters.

[3ball]

Count their all-star teammates during those years:

Bird and Isiah - 4 all-star teammates each..... MJ - zero... :confusedshrug:

Now what's their records once MJ got just 1 all-star - MJ destroyed them.. :confusedshrug:

MJ almost carried 6-seeded bums to the Finals in 89' and was the most unbeatable player WITH a cast - the only top 10 player that never lost as the 1 or 2 seed (6-0).. whereas Kareem lost 9 times as a 1 or 2 seed.. bird, magic and lebron 6 times each, etc, etc.

[k0kakw0rld]

OP vs heterosexuality = 0 wins, 1 loss
tpols's mouth vs my dick = 0 wins, 10 losses

[k0kakw0rld]

Count their all-star teammates during those years:

Bird and Isiah - 4 all-star teammates each..... MJ - zero... :confusedshrug:

Now what's their records once MJ got just 1 all-star - MJ destroyed them.. :confusedshrug:

MJ was the most undefeatable player ever with a cast - the only top 10 player that never lost as the 1 or 2 seed (6-0).. whereas Kareem lost 9 times as a 1 or 2 seed.. bird, magic and lebron 6 times each, etc, etc.
This is exactly LeBron vs Celtics and Warriors.

He couldn't beat Pierce, Garnett, Ray and Rondo. So he joined forces with Wade and Bosh. It was more Wade and LeBron than a Big 3.

He only had a true all star next to him in Kyrie when he played the 15 Warriors, 16 Warriors (as it was a two men show).

If Bird, Magic and Jordan all came the same year. (No way MJ gets 6 rings).

[3ball]

This is exactly LeBron vs Celtics and Warriors.

He couldn't beat Pierce, Garnett, Ray and Rondo. So he joined forces with Wade and Bosh. It was more Wade and LeBron than a Big 3.

He only had a true all star next to him in Kyrie when he played the 15 Warriors, 16 Warriors (as it was a two men show).

If Bird, Magic and Jordan all came the same year. (No way MJ gets 6 rings).
MJ would've been 13/13 or very close if he had Magic or Bird's cast..

Magic and Bird both concede that their casts were much better than mj's 3-peat casts.. Isiah says the same thing:

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=393128


The reality is that MJ won with less (only 1 all-star teammate) and would've been unfathomable with 2 like lebron had to face the Spurs and Warriors

Heck, Lebron teamed up with Wade..:confusedshrug: .. that alone gave him the most talent in the league and he was favored against the Spurs.. against the Warriors, he had another big 3 that was favored in 15' (http://insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=13604265&postcount=35) before kyrie went down

[SouBeachTalents]

MJ would've been 13/13 or very close if he had Magic or Bird's cast..

Magic and Bird both concede that their casts were much better than mj's 3-peat casts.. Isiah says the same thing:

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=393128


The reality is that MJ won with less (only 1 all-star teammate) and would've been unfathomable with 2 like lebron had to face the Spurs and Warriors

Heck, Lebron teamed up with Wade..:confusedshrug: .. that alone gave him the most talent in the league and he was favored against the Spurs.. against the Warriors, he had another big 3 that was favored in 15' (http://insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=13604265&postcount=35) before kyrie went down
The Spurs and Warriors were favorites in '14 & '15. And sorry, having the 2014 version of Wade is not the most talent in the league :oldlol:

[3ball]

The Spurs and Warriors were favorites in '14 & '15.



The 15' Cavs were favorites until Kyrie went down:



April 18, 2015

Golden State starts its playoff journey with future odds of 5-to-2 to win the NBA Championship at the Westgate Las Vegas Superbook, trailing the Cleveland Cavaliers at 9-to-5.

https://m.lasvegassun.com/blogs/talking-points/2015/apr/18/nba-playoffs-las-vegas-betting-odds-preview-warrio/


And the Spurs were tiny favorites, not record favorites, like the beatdown that took place

The reality is that MJ won with less (only 1 all-star teammate) and would've been unfathomable with 2 like lebron had to face the Spurs and Warriors






And sorry, having the 2014 version of Wade is not the most talent in the league :oldlol:



98' MJ won with Kukoc at PF and Pippen banged up:



D Wade in 14' ECF:. 19.8 on 55%
Pippen in 98' ECF:. 16.6 on 40%


Lebron-ball was simply the vastly inferior brand that got figured-out and overtaken in the 14' Finals, so teammates will always play poorly when that happens.. lebron didn't play well either when games were being contested.. It's a documented fact that he just padded that series, and had the power to do so as the team's ball-dominator

Btw, Wade was 32 years old and an all-star for 2 more years after 2014, while 98' pippen was 33 and wasn't an all-star after 98'.

[TheCorporation]

Yyyiiikkkeeesss

:eek:

[k0kakw0rld]

It's almost as if team context matters.
It only matters when the argument favors you or the player you support. (And this is for everybody).

[3ball]

Y

Yyyiiikkkeeesss

:eek:


what's their records once MJ got just 1 all-star?

MJ almost never lost when he had an all-star teammate - only when that teammate had a migraine in game 7 or if MJ was playing baseball

Whereas lebron loses a shit-ton with 2 all-stars, let alone 1.. :yaohappy:

So he loses more than a goat should - 6 times with 1 or 2 seeds (squads), compared to zero for the real goat (most unbeatable player)

[Hey Yo]

what's their records once MJ got just 1 all-star?

MJ almost never lost when he had an all-star teammate - only when that teammate had a migraine in game 7 or if MJ was playing baseball

Whereas lebron loses a shit-ton with 2 all-stars, let alone 1.. :yaohappy:

So he loses more than a goat should - 6 times with 1 or 2 seeds (squads), compared to zero for the real goat (most unbeatable player)
Orlando Woolridge put up better numbers in 1986 playoffs than both Wade and Bosh did in 2014 Finals. Oakley's 10-10 >>>>>>> Bosh's 14-5

MJ had 2 perennial All-Stars in 1986. Easily had more help than LeBron had in 2014.

[FKAri]

what's their records once MJ got just 1 all-star?

MJ almost never lost when he had an all-star teammate - only when that teammate had a migraine in game 7 or if MJ was playing baseball

Whereas lebron loses a shit-ton with 2 all-stars, let alone 1.. :yaohappy:

So he loses more than a goat should - 6 times with 1 or 2 seeds (squads), compared to zero for the real goat (most unbeatable player)
And what's MJ's record before Pippen, again? Oh right
























































http://oi65.tinypic.com/2qiu5j8.jpg

[Shaquille O'Neal]

The 15' Cavs were favorites until Kyrie went down:


April 18, 2015

Golden State starts its playoff journey with future odds of 5-to-2 to win the NBA Championship at the Westgate Las Vegas Superbook, trailing the Cleveland Cavaliers at 9-to-5.

https://m.lasvegassun.com/blogs/talking-points/2015/apr/18/nba-playoffs-las-vegas-betting-odds-preview-warrio/
And the Spurs were tiny favorites, not record favorites, like the beatdown that took place

The reality is that MJ won with less (only 1 all-star teammate) and would've been unfathomable with 2 like lebron had to face the Spurs and Warriors





98' MJ won with Kukoc at PF and Pippen banged up:


D Wade in 14' ECF:. 19.8 on 55%
Pippen in 98' ECF:. 16.6 on 40%
Lebron-ball was simply the vastly inferior brand that got figured-out and overtaken in the 14' Finals, so teammates will always play poorly when that happens.. lebron didn't play well either when games were being contested.. It's a documented fact that he just padded that series, and had the power to do so as the team's ball-dominator

Btw, Wade was 32 years old and an all-star for 2 more years after 2014, while 98' pippen was 33 and wasn't an all-star after 98'.



You forget - Pippen wasn't an all-star in '98. Only Jordan from the Bulls in 1998. He won the FMVP and his 6th ring without another all-star that year.:bowdown:

[And1AllDay]

You forget - Pippen wasn't an all-star in '98. Only Jordan from the Bulls in 1998. He won the FMVP and his 6th ring without another all-star that year.:bowdown:

Which Finals does LeBron win averaging 4 rebounds and 2 assists?

[3ball]

You


Which Finals does LeBron win averaging 4 rebounds and 2 assists?


How many clutch shots in the Finals, i.e. game-winners or game-tie'ers????

Clutch is how to win a Finals with 4 rebs and 2 assists, along with goat winning experience, leadership, defense, and scoring load
.

[And1AllDay]

You
How many clutch shots in the Finals, i.e. game-winners or game-tie'ers????

Clutch is how to win a Finals with 4 rebs and 2 assists, along with goat winning experience, leadership, defense, and scoring load
.

So which Finals series does LeBron win averaging 4 rebounds and 2 assists?

[72-10]

So which Finals series does LeBron win averaging 4 rebounds and 2 assists?

When has LeBron been guarded by the entire phucking team?

[And1AllDay]

When has LeBron been guarded by the entire phucking team?

So which Finals series does LeBron win averaging 4 rebounds and 2 assists?

[Manny98]

Hold up...

MJ had losing records against his only real competition?

no way stop lying no way the GOAT had losing records to both IT and Bird gtfo :oldlol:

[And1AllDay]

Hold up...

MJ had losing records against his only real competition?

no way stop lying no way the GOAT had losing records to both IT and Bird gtfo :oldlol:

:eek: :roll:

Uh oh...

Jordan fans are in TROUBLE

[Manny98]

Yyyiiikkkeeesss

:eek:
11-23 against Bird :eek:

Major yikes if true

[3ball]

So which Finals series does LeBron win averaging 4 rebounds and 2 assists?
All of them of he had the things I mentioned that 98' MJ had:

- stealing a game or 2 with goat clutch, and momentum/confidence
- goat teamwork and winning know-how
- goat defense
- goat scoring burden
- goat brand of team ball due to sufficient off-ball game

[bullettooth]

tpols's mouth vs my dick = 0 wins, 10 losses

Lame.

[And1AllDay]

All of them of he had the things I mentioned that 98' MJ had:

- stealing a game or 2 with goat clutch, and momentum/confidence
- goat teamwork and winning know-how
- goat defense
- goat scoring burden
- goat brand of team ball due to sufficient off-ball game

Lol no really which Finals series does LeBron win averaging 4 reoounds and 2 assists

PLEASE KEEP IN MIND

He was facing athletes not Hornacek the beast or Ehlo da stopper

[3ball]

Lol no really which Finals series does LeBron win averaging 4 reoounds and 2 assists

PLEASE KEEP IN MIND

He was facing athletes not Hornacek the beast or Ehlo da stopper



So which Finals series does LeBron win averaging 4 rebounds and 2 assists?


All of them of he had the things that 97' or 98' MJ had:

- stealing a game or 2 with goat clutch, and momentum/confidence
- goat teamwork and winning know-how
- goat defense
- goat scoring burden
- goat brand of team ball due to sufficient off-ball game


Lebron has none of this, so he's 3/9

[DaHeezy]

what's their records once MJ got just 1 all-star?

MJ almost never lost when he had an all-star teammate - only when that teammate had a migraine in game 7 or if MJ was playing baseball

Whereas lebron loses a shit-ton with 2 all-stars, let alone 1.. :yaohappy:

So he loses more than a goat should - 6 times with 1 or 2 seeds (squads), compared to zero for the real goat (most unbeatable player)

So you're admitting Jordan needed an all-star to win

Good to know

[72-10]

So you're admitting Jordan needed an all-star to win

Good to know

Jordan wouldn't have needed an All-Star to win in 91, 92 and 93, and it's glaringly clear.

[3ball]

So you're admitting Jordan needed an all-star to win

Good to know


Lebron needed 2

MJ won with less (only 1 all-star teammate) and would've been unfathomable with 2 like lebron had to face the Spurs and Warriors

Btw, only MJ/Kobe won multiple rings with 1 all-star teammate, except shaq (who had Kobe), and hakeem (when MJ was out of league)

[Dray n Klay]

Lebron needed 2

MJ won with less (only 1 all-star teammate) and would've been unfathomable with 2 like lebron had to face the Spurs and Warriors

Btw, only MJ/Kobe won multiple rings with 1 all-star teammate, except shaq (who had Kobe), and hakeem (when MJ was out of league)


Jordan lost with an all star in 1990 and 1995


LeBron won without an all star in 2016



So that already proves LeBron is better. He Wins without all-stars while Jordan loses with all-stars

[72-10]

Jordan wouldn't have needed an All-Star to win in 91, 92 and 93, and it's glaringly clear.

And Kyrie played like an All-Star in the 2016 Finals.

[And1AllDay]

Lebron needed 2

MJ won with less (only 1 all-star teammate) and would've been unfathomable with 2 like lebron had to face the Spurs and Warriors

Btw, only MJ/Kobe won multiple rings with 1 all-star teammate, except shaq (who had Kobe), and hakeem (when MJ was out of league)

2016, bye 3baLĹLLLLLLLL

[And1AllDay]

Jordan lost with an all star in 1990 and 1995


LeBron won without an all star in 2016



So that already proves LeBron is better. He Wins without all-stars while Jordan loses with all-stars

Dagger

[Rico2016]

Jordan lost with an all star in 1990 and 1995


LeBron won without an all star in 2016



So that already proves LeBron is better. He Wins without all-stars while Jordan loses with all-stars

Dray n Klay gon' Slay

[3ball]

2016, bye 3baLĹLLLLLLLL
Kyrie and Love are perennial all-stars

Or if you want to go by olympians

Or HOF likelihood

Etc, etc


MJ won with less (only 1 perennial all-star teammate/olympian/HOF) and would've been unfathomable with 2 like lebron had to face the Spurs and Warriors

Btw, only MJ/Kobe won multiple rings with 1 all-star teammate, except shaq (who had Kobe), and hakeem (when MJ was out of league)

[3ball]

Jordan lost with an all star in 1990 and 1995


Lebron lost with an all-star in 05', 09', and 18'

And he lost with 2 all-stars in 11', 14', and 17'

MJ never even HAD 2 all-stars, let alone lost with them





LeBron won without an all star in 2016


MJ won without an all-star in 1991 and 1998

[sportjames23]

It

[k0kakw0rld]

[QUOTE=sportjames23]It

[3ball]

And Bird, Magic etc... started to fade away.

This usually happens when you go against a better team than yours. Unless you have the same amount of all stars on your side. Which was never the case for LeBron most of his career.
Who needed more all-star teammates to win, MJ or Lebron?

And who had the much better record upon getting 1 or more all-star teammates?

:pimp:

[sportjames23]

And Bird, Magic etc... started to fade away.

This usually happens when you go against a better team than yours. Unless you have the same amount of all stars on your side. Which was never the case for LeBron most of his career.

Tell me when MJ had the same amount of stars on his team as Magic, Bird and Isiah at that time. I'll wait.

[Rico2016]

It only matters when the argument favors you or the player you support. (And this is for everybody).

These boys are shooketh

[And1AllDay]

Yyyiiikkkeeesss

:eek:

:eek: :eek: Uh oh Mikey has some explaining to do

[Uncle Drew]

Jordan couldn’t win until the Celtics, Pistons and Lakers got too old. Then he ducked Hakeem.

[Rico2016]

[QUOTE=Uncle Drew]Jordan couldn

[TheCorporation]

Both playoffs and regular season

So according to many here

Kobe > Duncan because of the records

so Bird and Isiah > Jordan? :confusedshrug:

:eek:

[And1AllDay]

Paging 3ball immediatley


Larry Bird vs MJ = 23 wins-11 losses
Isiah Thomas vs MJ = 36 wins-29 losses

:eek: :eek:

[3ball]

Paging 3ball immediatley


Larry Bird vs MJ = 23 wins-11 losses
Isiah Thomas vs MJ = 36 wins-29 losses

:eek: :eek:
What's the record after mj got 1 all-star teammate to face their bevy of all-stars?

I'll wait..

[And1AllDay]

What's the record after mj got 1 all-star teammate to face their bevy of all-stars?

I'll wait..

Bird 23 wins
Mike 11 wins

Can we put Bird above Mike at this point tho with double the win count

[Duncan21formvp]

Shawn Marion 12-11 vs Lebron James and 4-2 in the playoffs vs him.

[3ball]

Shawn Marion 12-11 vs Lebron James and 4-2 in the playoffs vs him.
Exactly

More guys have winning records against lebron because he lost way more - only 3 rings in 15 seasons, so half the winning of MJ

Everyone has a winning record against lebron

[Vino24]

Bird and Thomas > MJ

[Duncan21formvp]

Bird and Thomas > MJ
Shawn Marion > Lebron

[Duncan21formvp]

Exactly

More guys have winning records against lebron because he lost way more - only 3 rings in 15 seasons, so half the winning of MJ

Everyone has a winning record against lebron
Draymond Green is 7-5 in the season and 15-6 vs Lebron in the playoffs.

Draymond > Lebron



Manu is 12-10 vs Lebron in the season and 11-5 against him in the playoffs.

Manu > Lebron


Rashard Lewis is 9-8 vs Lebron in the season and 4-2 vs him in the playoffs.

Rashard Lewis > Lebron

[Rico2016]

Draymond Green is 7-5 in the season and 15-6 vs Lebron in the playoffs.

Draymond > Lebron



Manu is 12-10 vs Lebron in the season and 11-5 against him in the playoffs.

Manu > Lebron


Rashard Lewis is 9-8 vs Lebron in the season and 4-2 vs him in the playoffs.

Rashard Lewis > Lebron

But basically none of them are double like Bird's 23 to 11

7 to 5
12 to 10
9 to 8

Meh, so basically none of them are double like Bird's 23 to 11 with Jordan so you're proving the point that no one has been more dominated than Jordan was by Bird.

I mean, were you trying to denounce Jordan even further because that's what you're doing buddy

[Asukal]

Meh, so basically none of them are double like Bird's 23 to 11 with Jordan

Jordan doubles Bird's ring count. It doesn't mean a thing if it's not a ring bruh. :lol :oldlol: :banana:

[knicksman]

6/6 is all that matters and they are all legit not cheap/colluded rings. Thats why only betas respect brons rings.

[Rico2016]

6/6 is all that matters and they are all legit not cheap/colluded rings. Thats why only betas respect brons rings.

Yeah I am no beta but I have to respect the '16 ring. The '12 ring the Thunder were young, it was their first Finals appearance but '13 and '16 were big time rings man. Put the hate aside for a moment here.

[knicksman]

Yeah I am no beta but I have to respect the '16 ring. The '12 ring the Thunder were young, it was their first Finals appearance but '13 and '16 were big time rings man. Put the hate aside for a moment here.


youre a beta brah. And 2016 is the worse. Superteam + refs. LOL Theres no cheaper ring than that.

[And1AllDay]

youre a beta brah. And 2016 is the worse. Superteam + refs. LOL Theres no cheaper ring than that.

I guess since your a Knicks fan you know so much about rings and alpha rings right so what is your favorite ring you got to watch win? Kinda pretty sure you werent not even born beta boy :oldlol: :oldlol:

[knicksman]

I guess since your a Knicks fan you know so much about rings and alpha rings right so what is your favorite ring you got to watch win? Kinda pretty sure you werent not even born beta boy :oldlol: :oldlol:

nah. as a player fan. We just won last year. :confusedshrug: Meanwhile you guys tried so hard to win and only manage 3/9. Thats what you get for rooting for the safer pick(Lebron). You guys are too pvssy to take the risk.

[k0kakw0rld]

Shawn Marion 12-11 vs Lebron James and 4-2 in the playoffs vs him.
We compare role players with other role players and All Time Greats to other All Time Greats.

Bird, Jordan, LeBron are in the TOP 10.
Zeke probably top 30



Shawn Marion? :oldlol: Fvck outta here :facepalm

[Rico2016]

nah. as a player fan. We just won last year. :confusedshrug: Meanwhile you guys tried so hard to win and only manage 3/9. Thats what you get for rooting for the safer pick(Lebron). You guys are too pvssy to take the risk.

Hello high class standard person which Knicks ring was your favorite to witness?

:eek: :( :(

[Manny98]

Exactly

More guys have winning records against lebron because he lost way more - only 3 rings in 15 seasons, so half the winning of MJ

Everyone has a winning record against lebron
LeBron

16-6 against Kobe

31-29 against KG

20-15 KD

Sorry but LeBron has winning records against his 3 biggest rivals

Whilst Jordan has losing records against Bird and IT

[Elosha]

But basically none of them are double like Bird's 23 to 11

7 to 5
12 to 10
9 to 8

Meh, so basically none of them are double like Bird's 23 to 11 with Jordan so you're proving the point that no one has been more dominated than Jordan was by Bird.

I mean, were you trying to denounce Jordan even further because that's what you're doing buddy

Such a foolish thread. The Celtics and Pistons were GREAT teams. Most of their wins came in Jordan's early years, when the Bulls were one of the worst teams in the league, outside of Jordan. Then in 88-90, the Bulls were very competitive with the Pistons in the playoffs, but had no other star other than Jordan and thus eventually got overwhelmed by the sheer and brutal physicality of the Pistons. But when Pippen and Grant finally matured to become dependable, it was all over for the Pistons.

Bulls never got to play the prime Celtics since their best seasons never overlapped. Those would have been great series. But to penalize Jordan's W-L record against Bird and Isiah because his team was a horrendous, drug addled mess in his early years is just silly trolling.

[Phoenix]

LeBron

16-6 against Kobe

31-29 against KG

20-15 KD

Sorry but LeBron has winning records against his 3 biggest rivals

Whilst Jordan has losing records against Bird and IT

vs Duncan 15-21
Vs Curry 14-21

He's played those two in the finals more than anyone else, so I'll assume it merely slipped your mind to include them in your list.

[Phoenix]

Such a foolish thread. The Celtics and Pistons were GREAT teams. Most of their wins came in Jordan's early years, when the Bulls were one of the worst teams in the league, outside of Jordan. Then in 88-90, the Bulls were very competitive with the Pistons in the playoffs, but had no other star other than Jordan and thus eventually got overwhelmed by the sheer and brutal physicality of the Pistons. But when Pippen and Grant finally matured to become dependable, it was all over for the Pistons.

Bulls never got to play the prime Celtics since their best seasons never overlapped. Those would have been great series. But to penalize Jordan's W-L record against Bird and Isiah because his team was a horrendous, drug addled mess in his early years is just silly trolling.

OP and his 100 alts are Lebron haters who deliberately make stupid context-less arguments to get as much hate on Lebron as possible. He's one of the biggest Jordan stans on the board.

[Manny98]

vs Duncan 15-21
Vs Curry 14-21

He's played those two in the finals more than anyone else, so I'll assume it merely slipped your mind to include them in your list.
No the players that LeBron gets compared to most are KD and Kobe and LeBron has destroyed them head to head

If you don't include after KD joined GSW, LeBron has a winning record against Curry as well

Also most of Duncans wins over LeBron he wasn't even the best player on his team

[kennethgriffen]

the difference is duncan for most of his career had a better team than kobe. yet kobe still f*cked his ass up

[Manny98]

Such a foolish thread. The Celtics and Pistons were GREAT teams. Most of their wins came in Jordan's early years, when the Bulls were one of the worst teams in the league, outside of Jordan. Then in 88-90, the Bulls were very competitive with the Pistons in the playoffs, but had no other star other than Jordan and thus eventually got overwhelmed by the sheer and brutal physicality of the Pistons. But when Pippen and Grant finally matured to become dependable, it was all over for the Pistons.

Bulls never got to play the prime Celtics since their best seasons never overlapped. Those would have been great series. But to penalize Jordan's W-L record against Bird and Isiah because his team was a horrendous, drug addled mess in his early years is just silly trolling.
Excuses, LeBron had a winning record against Kobe despite LeBron being a baby on a garbage team and Kobe being in his absolute prime.

No matter how you Jordan stans try to spin it 11-23 against Bird is laughable for the so called "GOAT"

[Phoenix]

1)No the players that LeBron gets compared to most are KD and Kobe and LeBron has destroyed them head to head

2)If you don't include after KD joined GSW, LeBron has a winning record against Curry as well



1)So why did you throw KG in there? Lebron's never been compared to KG so what, thought you'd pick a random player he has a winning record against to pad out the list?

2) Excuses. You hold MJ to account for losing to much better teams, but apply excuses for Lebron doing the same. Do better.

[Manny98]

Jordan

29-36 against IT

10-13 against Hakeem

"GOAT" but has a losing record to so many players sometimes doesn't add up :wtf:

[Manny98]

1)So why did you throw KG in there? Lebron's never been compared to KG so what, thought you'd pick a random player he has a winning record against to pad out the list?

2) Excuses. You hold MJ to account for losing to much better teams, but apply excuses for Lebron doing the same. Do better.
LeBron vs KG + Pierce Celtics was the biggest rilvary of the late 2000s early 2010s df do you mean "random player" :lol

[TheCorporation]

LeBron vs KG + Pierce Celtics was the biggest rilvary of the late 2000s early 2010s df do you mean "random player" :lol

I'm starting to think Phoenix hasn't watched basketball in 10 years like 3ball :lol :lol

[Phoenix]

LeBron vs KG + Pierce Celtics was the biggest rilvary of the late 2000s early 2010s df do you mean "random player" :lol

Lebron and KG were never 'rivals' in the way he is with Kobe and KD, yet you listed their head to heads. Curry and Duncan are more rivals than KG is and he has losing records against both. If you want to use the argument that Curry's record is bolstered by KD, then you accept the premise that Lebron lost to a superior team and thus need to accept the premise that MJ similarly lost to better teams(Celtics and Pistons) until he had a good enough team around him. If you want to use the argument that some of Duncan's victories over Lebron don't count because he wasn't the best player later on, then you also accept the premise that some of Lebron's victories over KG came when KG was over the hill as well. :confusedshrug:

[Phoenix]

I'm starting to think Phoenix hasn't watched basketball in 10 years like 3ball :lol :lol

You got me insidehoops *wink*

[TheCorporation]

You got me insidehoops *wink*

It's pretty apparent to me if you don't think Garnett and LeBron was a illegitimate rivalry.

You've been caught

[Bronbron23]

According to this logic Eli Manning is better than Tom Brady. Good news for Brady haters like myself :applause:

[And1AllDay]

Both playoffs and regular season

So according to many here

Kobe > Duncan because of the records

so Bird and Isiah > Jordan? :confusedshrug:

:eek: whoa

[Phoenix]

It's pretty apparent to me if you don't think Garnett and LeBron was a illegitimate rivalry.

You've been caught

Nope, nobody other than your inbred ass has ever called Lebron and Garnett rivals. If anything was a mano a mano affair in those Cleveland/Miami vs Celtics matchups it was Pierce vs Lebron( direct positional competition, dropping 40+ on each other in game 7 2008, 'it's been a pleasure taking my talents to South Beach').

[Manny98]

Nope, nobody other than your inbred ass has ever called Lebron and Garnett rivals. If anything was a mano a mano affair in those Cleveland/Miami vs Celtics matchups it was Pierce vs Lebron( direct positional competition, dropping 40+ on each other in game 7 2008, 'it's been a pleasure taking my talents to South Beach').
LeBron and the KG led superteam Celtics were rivals wtf you talking about :oldlol:

Why do you think LeBron gets booed like crazy every time he comes to the TD Garden

[Phoenix]

LeBron and the KG led superteam Celtics were rivals wtf you talking about :oldlol:

Why do you think LeBron gets booed like crazy every time he comes to the TD Garden

You blur the line between stupidity and obtuseness brilliantly. I've made no argument whatsoever about Lebron vs Celtics. That matchup was never about any individual rivalry between Lebron and KG and again, if there WAS anything approaching a rivalry on an individual level it was with Pierce in terms of positional competition. Don't act like we can't go back a page and review exactly what was said, you make yourself look like an ass creating straw-man arguments.

[Manny98]

You blur the line between stupidity and obtuseness brilliantly. I've made no argument whatsoever about Lebron vs Celtics. That matchup was never about any individual rivalry between Lebron and KG and again, if there WAS anything approaching a rivalry on an individual level it was with Pierce in terms of positional competition. Don't act like we can't go back a page and review exactly what was said, you make yourself look like an ass creating straw-man arguments.
Ok Paul Pierce was his second biggest rival

The point remains LeBron has a winning record against his biggest rivals (KD,Kobe,Pierce)

otoh Jordan has a losing record against his biggest rivals (IT,Bird,Keem)

[Phoenix]

otoh Jordan has a losing record against his biggest rivals (IT,Bird,Keem)

And has nearly the same number of championships (6 to 7) and more MVPs( 5 to 4) on his own as all of them combined, so ultimately nobody other than little retarded c*nts like you care. That's why he's in the GOAT discussion and the others aren't. Furthermore, none of those guys would be classified as his 'biggest' rivals. Bird and IT were on superior teams that beat an ascending MJ. It was never about MJ vs either of them on an individual level. Hakeem and MJ never played each other in the playoffs, so what makes dream one of his 'biggest' rivals?

[eliteballer]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tgZkQirzvGY

[Manny98]

So when Jordan loses It's never his fault its always because his supporting casts are too weak and he didn't have enough help

But when he wins he gets all of the credit :rolleyes:

[Phoenix]

So when Jordan loses It's never his fault its always because his supporting casts are too weak and he didn't have enough help

But when he wins he gets all of the credit :rolleyes:

Why is Lebron 1-8 in the last 2 finals? And how does what you're saying above not apply to Lebron? Who gets the bulk of credit for the 2012, 2013 and 2016 titles? Who gets the bulk of the blame for him losing? If you can't equate Lebron losing to superior teams like the Warriors to MJ losing to superior teams like the Celtics, then you're simply trolling. Just be honest enough to admit you're being intellectually dishonest about it all.

[Manny98]

Why is Lebron 1-8 in the last 2 finals? And how does what you're saying above not apply to Lebron? Who gets the bulk of credit for the 2012, 2013 and 2016 titles? Who gets the bulk of the blame for him losing? If you can't equate Lebron losing to superior teams like the Warriors to MJ losing to superior teams like the Celtics, then you're simply trolling. Just be honest enough to admit you're being intellectually dishonest about it all.
But you people will never admit that its partly Jordans fault that he was 1-9 and has losing records against Bird and IT all i hear are excuses saying "he didn't have any help" blah blah blah

Jordan is god who never has any downfalls or blemishes on his legacy 6/6 neva lost once yet ignore the times he lost before the finals

And then turn around and shit on LeBron for losing to the most stacked team of all time when he's playing with a bunch of garbage cans and he's putting up GOAT number but still loses "its still LeBrons fault" somehow

[Phoenix]

But you people will never admit that its partly Jordans fault that he was 1-9 and has losing records against Bird and IT all i hear are excuses saying "he didn't have any help" blah blah blah

Jordan is god who never has any downfalls or blemishes on his legacy 6/6 neva lost once yet ignore the times he lost before the finals

And then turn around and shit on LeBron for losing to the most stacked team of all time when he's playing with a bunch of garbage cans

MJ averaged 44/6/6 against Boston in 1986 and had the highest GmSc in the series, against peak Bird and a team many consider a top 5 GOAT team. With virtually nothing around him. Lebron averaged 34/12/10 and had the second highest GmSc against the Warriors in 2017, playing with two players that were better than anything MJ had in 1986( Kyrie and Love). So if we agree that the 2017 Warriors are a hair better than the 1986 Celtics, MJ having less help in 86 than Lebron did in 2017 balances the scales relatively speaking. So with that said, the two of them were either the best or at worst, 2nd best player in their respective series. And they both lost...badly.

The hilarity in your statement is you saying we shit on Lebron for losing with garbage cans, while acting like MJ was playing with the Showtime Lakers on his side against the Celtics. You don't apply the standards equally, you excuse prime Lebron for losing to a better team with 'garbage cans' while holding 2nd year MJ accountable for losing to a better team with actual 'garbage cans'. So again, just admit that you're trolling, or you're too stupid to see the logical fallacy in your arguments. No-one is saying MJ is infallible, I'm not. I could make the argument that MJ's early career play-style wasn't conducive to uplifting his team( no matter how shitty they may have been) to a higher seed and avoiding Boston altogether. I was watching Jordan when he was known as a selfish gunner, a scoring phenom who wouldn't lift a team to a championship, until he proved he had substance to go with style. Unlike you regurgitating tired ass '1-9' hot takes as your defacto position but clearly never saw young MJ play, I actually did and know full well what was going on with Jordan in the late 80s and how he was viewed in contrast to players like Bird and Magic.

[Manny98]

MJ averaged 44/6/6 against Boston in 1986 and had the highest GmSc in the series, against peak Bird and a team many consider a top 5 GOAT team. With virtually nothing around him. Lebron averaged 34/12/10 and had the second highest GmSc against the Warriors in 2017, playing with two players that were better than anything MJ had in 1986( Kyrie and Love). So if we agree that the 2017 Warriors are a hair better than the 1986 Celtics, MJ having less help in 86 than Lebron did in 2017 balances the scales relatively speaking. So with that said, the two of them were either the best or at worst, 2nd best player in their respective series. And they both lost...badly.

The hilarity in your statement is you saying we shit on Lebron for losing with garbage cans, while acting like MJ was playing with the Showtime Lakers on his side against the Celtics. You don't apply the standards equally, you excuse prime Lebron for losing to a better team with 'garbage cans' while holding 2nd year MJ accountable for losing to a better team with actual 'garbage cans'. So again, just admit that you're trolling, or you're too stupid to see the logical fallacy in your arguments. No-one is saying MJ is infallible, I'm not. I could make the argument that MJ's early career play-style wasn't conducive to uplifting his team( no matter how shitty they may have been) to a higher seed and avoiding Boston altogether. I was watching Jordan when he was known as a selfish gunner, a scoring phenom who wouldn't lift a team to a championship, until he proved he had substance to go with style. Unlike you regurgitating tired ass '1-9' hot takes as your defacto position but clearly never saw young MJ play, I actually did and know full well what was going on with Jordan in the late 80s and how he was viewed in contrast to players like Bird and Magic.
I don't actually hold him accountable for losing but if your the so called GOAT you should have been able to steal at least one game like LeBron did against the 17 Warriors

How am i trolling everything that i have ever said are facts just because you don't agree with what i say doesn't mean i'm trolling or i'm "stupid"

[Phoenix]

I don't actually hold him accountable for losing but if your the so called GOAT you should have been able to steal at least one game like LeBron did against the 17 Warriors

How am i trolling everything that i have ever said are facts just because you don't agree with what i say doesn't mean i'm trolling or i'm "stupid"

Exactly. He 'stole' a game in which the Cavs hit 24 threes. That's the only thing that prevented a back to back sweep, an aberration 3 point barrage. You think if MJ had anywhere near that kind of firepower at his disposal that he couldn't have taken a game off the Celtics? MJ's second option in 86 against Boston was Orlando Woolridge with 21ppg. He averaged 23ppg less than MJ did. You want to discuss burden? Let's start with that. You think MJ couldn't have made use of someone like Kyrie averaging 29ppg to Lebron's 34?

You're trolling because you excuse Lebron losing to a better team while holding MJs feet to the fire for doing so( 1-9 bullshit). You're trolling because you're holding 23 year old, 2nd year MJ to the same level as 32 year old prime Lebron. That's trolling, and by acting like you're not trolling is....you guessed it....trolling. Which is ok, that's what ISH prides itself on. Pure, unadulterated trolling. Just stop acting like your arguments are something beyond that. I don't give Lebron shit for losing in 07 to the Spurs. I don't give him shit for missing the playoffs in 04 and 05. Because then I would be descending to your level of arguing.

[Manny98]

I literally just said i didn't hold MJ accountable for losing in 86 :oldlol:

And i've have seen you shit on LeBrons finals record multiple times like the rest of you Jordan fanboys stop lying

[Phoenix]

I literally just said i didn't hold MJ accountable for losing in 86 :oldlol:

And i've have seen you shit on LeBrons finals record multiple times like the rest of you Jordan fanboys stop lying

Really? So what's this:


11-23 :roll: :roll: :roll:

From this thread:

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=463299

Isn't 86 included in that 23-11 record? So like I said, trolling. And actually no, I'm not one of the '3/9' brigade you see around here. I don't make a point of engaging in '3/9, 1/9, 6/24' and all that other bullshit. And if I happen to do so, like talking about Lebron's 1-8 record the last 2 finals, it's to make a point that if you're going to hold MJ to account for Boston, then Lebron doesn't get a pass for 2017 cause 'statz'. MJ lost to better teams, Lebron lost to better teams. Get over it. You're one of the biggest '1-9' trolls on the board, I've seen it countless times with you. So stop pretending you aren't full of shit. You're a troll. Embrace it, you're more valued on this board than those who try to actually discuss basketball.

[Manny98]

Nope i only bring up 1-9 and 11-23 to argue why MJ is not the automatic GOAT or to counter the constant 3/9 bs that is all

[k0kakw0rld]

Exactly. He 'stole' a game in which the Cavs hit 24 threes. That's the only thing that prevented a back to back sweep, an aberration 3 point barrage. You think if MJ had anywhere near that kind of firepower at his disposal that he couldn't have taken a game off the Celtics? MJ's second option in 86 against Boston was Orlando Woolridge with 21ppg. He averaged 23ppg less than MJ did. You want to discuss burden? Let's start with that. You think MJ couldn't have made use of someone like Kyrie averaging 29ppg to Lebron's 34?

You're trolling because you excuse Lebron losing to a better team while holding MJs feet to the fire for doing so( 1-9 bullshit). You're trolling because you're holding 23 year old, 2nd year MJ to the same level as 32 year old prime Lebron. That's trolling, and by acting like you're not trolling is....you guessed it....trolling. Which is ok, that's what ISH prides itself on. Pure, unadulterated trolling. Just stop acting like your arguments are something beyond that. I don't give Lebron shit for losing in 07 to the Spurs. I don't give him shit for missing the playoffs in 04 and 05. Because then I would be descending to your level of arguing.
It's not our fault, MJ spent 10 years (4, I know) in college. LeBron already reached a final at the same age. :confusedshrug:

[Phoenix]

Nope i only bring up 1-9 and 11-23 to argue why MJ is not the automatic GOAT or to counter the constant 3/9 bs that is all

Here's a newsflash for you: I don't think MJ is the GOAT. I also don't think he's not the GOAT. You can go through every single one of my posts and I challenge you to find a single post where I've made that claim. The GOAT argument has so many era-specific, contextual and circumstantial considerations that I would never make any definitive claim to that end. YOU, on the other hand, I have seen declare Lebron GOAT numerous times. Or do you deny that?

[Gus Hemmingway]

Manny running laps around Phoenix, god damn :applause:

[sportjames23]

Manny gettin his shit pushed in. :oldlol:

[Phoenix]

It's not our fault, MJ spent 10 years (4, I know) in college. LeBron already reached a final at the same age. :confusedshrug:

Who said anyone was at fault? Lebron made the finals at a younger age but also needed more years than MJ did to win his first.

[Gus Hemmingway]

Manny aka The Professor


Take these kids to school OG :applause:

[Phoenix]

Manny running laps around Phoenix, god damn :applause:

Sorry insidehoops, we cracked the case already. You're a Jordan stan. Gig is up. Appreciate the support by the way.

[Manny98]

Here's a newsflash for you: I don't think MJ is the GOAT. I also don't think he's not the GOAT. You can go through every single one of my posts and I challenge you to find a single post where I've made that claim. The GOAT argument has so many era-specific, contextual and circumstantial considerations that I would never make any definitive claim to that end. YOU, on the other hand, I have seen declare Lebron GOAT numerous times. Or do you deny that?
No LeBron is the GOAT in my eyes, MJ is arguable maybe Kareem as well but no one else has a case

[Phoenix]

No LeBron is the GOAT in my eyes, MJ is arguable maybe Kareem as well but no one else has a case

Bill Russell doesn't have a case? 5 MVPs? 11 championships in 13 years? That's the point where you show yourself ignorant to history and ignorant in general. I don't care who your personal GOAT is, opinion is opinion. But shit like the above exposes you.

[k0kakw0rld]

Who said anyone was at fault? Lebron make the finals at a younger age but also needed more years than MJ did to win his first.
One was coached by cavemen, and got drafted by a dumb franchise. The other, was coached by the Greatest coach of all time.

[Manny98]

Manny gettin his shit pushed in. :oldlol:
https://i.postimg.cc/sgSMst08/Sport-James-Owned.png

Nuff said

[Phoenix]

The other, was coached by the Greatest coach of all time.

MJ was never coached by Gregg Poppovich. And besides that, coaching had nothing to do with 2011. He simply ****ed up.

[Gus Hemmingway]

https://i.postimg.cc/sgSMst08/Sport-James-Owned.png

Nuff said
:roll: :roll:

[Manny98]

Bill Russell doesn't have a case? 5 MVPs? 11 championships in 13 years? That's the point where you show yourself ignorant to history and ignorant in general. I don't care who your personal GOAT is, opinion is opinion. But shit like the above exposes you?
Ok i guess Bill Russell as well if your one of them fakkits that value rings and team accomplishments so much over individual play

[Celtics 1825]

https://i.postimg.cc/sgSMst08/Sport-James-Owned.png

Nuff said
It's hard for me to take anything he says seriously after seeing that :oldlol:

[k0kakw0rld]

MJ was never coached by Gregg Poppovich. And besides that, coaching had nothing to do with 2011. He simply ****ed up.
At least, you acknowledge how terrible Cleveland is. Him, getting them a championship is more valuable than all MJ's 6 rings. Beating the greatest team ever, I am sorry.

[Phoenix]

Ok i guess Bill Russell as well if your one of them fakkits that value rings so much over individual play

I value totality: Individual play. Stats. Individual accomplishments. Team accomplishments. 'Fakkits' dismiss checkboxes their guy doesn't tick.

[Phoenix]

At least, you acknowledge how terrible Cleveland is. Him getting them a championship is more valuable than all MJ's 6 rings. Beating the greatest team ever, I am sorry.

If the Warriors played in the playoffs like they did the regular season, and weren't nearly exposed by OKC in the WCFs, you may be remotely accurate in that take.

[Manny98]

I value totality: Individual play. Stats. Individual accomplishments. Team accomplishments. 'Fakkits' dismiss checkboxes their guy doesn't tick.
Yes exactly and Bill Russell doesn't pass the individual play category

Never averaged 20ppg in a era where guys were averaging 50ppg

He was a joke offensively, he's probably the worst offensive player in the top 100 ffs :roll:

[Phoenix]

Yes exactly and Bill Russell doesn't pass the individual play category

Never averaged 20ppg in a era where guys were averaging 50ppg

He was a joke offensively, he's probably the worst offensive player in the top 100 ffs :roll:

He was the GOAT defender arguably, shotblocker and one of the GOAT rebounders. 'Guys' averaging 50ppg? Last I checked it was one, and surely those gaudy PPG led to more championships and MVPs than the 'shit' offensive player, yeah? Oh wait...

However, thank you for making my point. Which box doesn't MJ tick? Individual play? Check. Stats? Check. Individual accolades? Check. Team accolades? Check. :confusedshrug:

[k0kakw0rld]

If the Warriors played in the playoffs like they did the regular season, and weren't nearly exposed by OKC in the WCFs, you may be remotely accurate in that take.
I don't believe in "Ifs". I only speak facts. 73-9 > 72-10 :confusedshrug:

[Phoenix]

I don't believe in "Ifs". I only speak facts. 73-9 > 72-10 :confusedshrug:

Winning the championship > not winning it. :confusedshrug: Facts.

Also, by your contention, the 2016 Warriors with 73 wins and NO Durant(and lost), are better than the 2017 Warriors with 67 wins and Durant( and won). Interesting.

[k0kakw0rld]

Winning the championship > not winning it. :confusedshrug: Facts.

Also, by your contention, the 2016 Warriors with 73 wins and NO Durant(and lost), are better than the 2017 Warriors with 67 wins and Durant( and won). Interesting.
They didn't win it because of? :confusedshrug:

[Manny98]

He was the GOAT defender arguably, shotblocker and one of the GOAT rebounders. 'Guys' averaging 50ppg? Last I checked it was one, and surely those gaudy PPG led to more championships and MVPs than the 'shit' offensive player, yeah? Oh wait...

However, thank you for making my point. Which box doesn't MJ tick? Individual play? Check. Stats? Check. Individual accolades? Check. Team accolades? Check. :confusedshrug:
He only got 11 rings because of his teams with like 10 HOF, he probably wasn't even the best player for the majority of his rings

Ben Wallace is also arguably the GOAT defender i guess he should be in the GOAT conversation as well :confusedshrug:

[Phoenix]

They didn't win it because of? :confusedshrug:

Because they choked away a 3-1 lead and Lebron leveraged it with great performances to close with considerable support from Kyrie. You have a different take? 73 wins in the regular season and flaming out in the playoffs doesn't make them the GOAT team. The GOAT team is the 2017 Warriors.

[Phoenix]

He only got 11 rings because of his teams with like 10 HOF, he probably wasn't even the best player for the majority of his rings

Ben Wallace is also arguably the GOAT defender i guess he should be in the GOAT conversation as well :confusedshrug:

Ever considered that some of his teammates got into the HOF by virtue of playing alongside Russell? Whom do you think benefited whom here? I'm not going to lie, Russell was before my time. And I damn well know he was before yours. You're showing your ass....again. Respect history. Respect the game. Russell has a case, and your arguments are that of a juvenile little c*nt without a clue.

Number of rings and MVPs for Ben Wallace?

[LAmbruh]

Koka and Manny going IN on this try-hard closet MJ stan :roll:

[k0kakw0rld]

Because they choked away a 3-1 lead and Lebron leveraged it with great performances to close with considerable support from Kyrie. You have a different take? 73 wins in the regular season and flaming out in the playoffs doesn't make them the GOAT team. The GOAT team is the 2017 Warriors.
They faced the GOAT and that is the reason why they choked that series away.

[Phoenix]

Koka and Manny going IN on this try-hard closet MJ stan :roll:

Appreciate the support :cheers:

[Phoenix]

They faced the GOAT and that is the reason why they choked that series away.

Nope. Because they nearly lost in the WCFs to a flawed OKC team. If the Warriors played in the playoffs like they did in the RS, they wouldn't have nearly lost to the Thunder. And they wouldn't have lost to Cleveland. And 'the GOAT' shouldn't have been down 1-3 to start with. Fortunately his competition wasn't playing at a 'GOAT' level, or close to it, when the Cavs made their comeback.

[Manny98]

Ever considered that some of his teammates got into the HOF by virtue of playing alongside Russell? Whom do you think benefited whom here? I'm not going to lie, Russell was before my time. And I damn well know he was before yours. You're showing your ass....again. Respect history. Respect the game. Russell has a case, and your arguments are that of a juvenile little c*nt without a clue.

Number of rings and MVPs for Ben Wallace?
Yh i said he has a case if you value team accomplishments which i don't at all because winning rings is totally dependent on outside circumstances like the team you were drafted by and how good your supporting casts are

[k0kakw0rld]

Nope. Because they nearly lost in the WCFs to a flawed OKC team. If the Warriors played in the playoffs like they did in the RS, they wouldn't have nearly lost to the Thunder. And they wouldn't have lost to Cleveland. And 'the GOAT' shouldn't have been down 1-3 to start with. Fortunately his competition wasn't playing at a 'GOAT' level, or close to it, when the Cavs made their comeback.
The GOAT was not fortunate to play with an all star next to him. Go ahead and bring your "perrenial" BS. Like we are used from him since we started watching him. Digging his team out of holes.

[Phoenix]

Yh i said he has a case if you value team accomplishments which i don't at all because winning rings is totally dependent on outside circumstances like the team you were drafted by and how good your supporting casts are

So you're ignoring his rings and focusing on what? Individual play? MJ, Kareem, Wilt, Shaq are in that discussion for peak. Individual accolades? MJ, Kareem, and Russell have more MVPs. Stats? Wilt, and if you play the 30>22>18 routine, Wilt de-focused on offense and moreso on defense...and won more. If he were to solely concentrate on offense for his career and not turn morseo to defense on the back nine, no one else would be in the conversation for scoring, whether it be PPG or total points. And nobody touched 50/25.

[Phoenix]

The GOAT was not fortunate to play with an all star next to him. Go ahead and bring your "perrenial" BS. Like we are used from him since we started watching him. Digging his team out of holes.

The 'GOAT' had Kyrie put up 40 points in one game, and hit the go ahead shot in game 7. But sure, we'll play the 'Kyrie wasn't an all-star' bullshit just for you. The 'GOAT' teams best player also avg 23ppg on 40% in the finals vs 30ppg on 50% in the RS but sure, we'll pretend the Warriors didn't experience a dropoff. Now, thanks for killing these last few minutes till the game starts but this discussion is putting me sleep. Thanks for the timewaster....you can have the last word. I can tell it means a lot to you.

[k0kakw0rld]

The 'GOAT' had Kyrie put up 40 points in one game, and hit the go ahead shot in game 7. But sure, we'll play the 'Kyrie wasn't an all-star' bullshit just for you. The 'GOAT' teams best player also avg 23ppg on 40% in the finals vs 30ppg on 50% in the RS but sure, we'll pretend the Warriors didn't experience a dropoff. Now, thanks for killing these last few minutes till the game starts but this discussion is putting me sleep. Thanks for the timewaster....you can have the last word. I can tell it means a lot to you.
Dropoff or nah..What does this have to do with them being a 73-9 team though?

They were won their conference. Yeah they were down 1-3 vs the Thunder (a team better than anything MJ has faced in the final), reached the finals and faced LeBron. Then, we all saw what happened. The King put his dick in their mouth and they choked.

[Duncan21formvp]

If Lebron was soo good why did he lose to Carlos Arroyo in the olympics and Dwight Howard with HCA? Lebron has also been down in a series at least 3-2 virtually every year of his career including 5 years in a row with HCA (losing 3 in a row with HCA).

[k0kakw0rld]

If Lebron was soo good why did he lose to Carlos Arroyo in the olympics and Dwight Howard with HCA? Lebron has also been down in a series at least 3-2 virtually every year of his career including 5 years in a row with HCA (losing 3 in a row with HCA).
Wade managed to get Prime Shaq. Meanwhile LeBron got him way way way way past his prime. They also brought in Ben Wallace :oldlol: :lol who was also done.

Again Cleveland is a shit-hole. He would've won earlier and way more if he had Riley earlier or if a competent front office, drafted him. But again (i don't believe "ifs") so let's stick to the facts.

[Duncan21formvp]

Wade managed to get Prime Shaq. Meanwhile LeBron got him way way way way past his prime. They also brought in Ben Wallace :oldlol: :lol who was also done.

Again Cleveland is a shit-hole. He would've won earlier and way more if he had Riley earlier or if a competent front office, drafted him. But again (i don't believe "ifs") so let's stick to the facts.
He got a Shaq who won allstar game mvp the season before and had 3 finals mvp's and a league mvp. Ben Wallace was only 32 and had 4x DPOY.

[Phoenix]

Dropoff or nah..What does this have to do with them being a 73-9 team though?

They were won their conference. Yeah they were down 1-3 vs the Thunder (a team better than anything MJ has faced in the final), reached the finals and faced LeBron. Then, we all saw what happened. The King put his dick in their mouth and they choked.

OKC won alot of games off talent but were annually beaten because they had an easily beatable style when it counts. So no, they weren't better than teams like the 93 Suns, 96 Sonics or 97 Jazz who blended talent and teamwork much better than the Thunder ever did. Don't know if they were necessarily worse, but I ain't buying that they were better. And yet such a flawed technical team was able to nearly beat the Warriors. Then the Cavs take the blueprint, add in some roughness and yeah, we saw what happened. A team that couldn't live up to their own standard lost. Nobody looks at the OKC Thunder or Cavs in 2016 as all-time great teams, and yet they exposed holes in your so-called 'GOAT" team because by your logic they won 73 games. The Warriors didn't play in the playoffs at the same level they did in the regular season. That was evident even before they got to the Thunder.

The GOAT team is the 2017 Warriors, and if the 'King' put his dick in the 2016 Warriors mouth, then the 2017 Warriors raped every available hole on Lebron's body.

[k0kakw0rld]

OKC won alot of games off talent but were annually beaten because they had an easily beatable style when it counts. So no, they weren't better than teams like the 93 Suns, 96 Sonics or 97 Jazz who blended talent and teamwork much better than the Thunder ever did. Don't know if they were necessarily worse, but I ain't buying that they were better. And yet such a flawed technical team was able to nearly beat the Warriors. Then the Cavs take the blueprint, add in some roughness and yeah, we saw what happened. A team that couldn't live up to their own standard lost. Nobody looks at the OKC Thunder or Cavs in 2016 as all-time great teams, and yet they exposed holes in your so-called 'GOAT" team because by your logic they won 73 games. The Warriors didn't play in the playoffs at the same level they did in the regular season. That was evident even before they got to the Thunder.

The GOAT team is the 2017 Warriors, and if the 'King' put his dick in the 2016 Warriors mouth, then the 2017 Warriors raped every available hole on Lebron's body.
It takes a team to rape a KING. There is a reason why he's the GOAT. Because this one man is responsible for the 2017 Warriors. They went and got Durant :oldlol:

[Phoenix]

It takes a team to rape a KING.

Or Dirk and Jason Terry.

[k0kakw0rld]

Or Dirk and Jason Terry.
2 vs 1

See like I told you, It always takes multiple efforts or in this case, multiple guys to take down a KING.

[And1AllDay]

Koka and Manny going IN on this try-hard closet MJ stan :roll:

:roll: :roll:

[Phoenix]

2 vs 1

See like I told you, It always takes multiple efforts or in this case, multiple guys to take down a KING.

Actually no, it was 1 all-star( Dirk) vs 3( Lebron, Wade, Bosh).

[Manny98]

So you're ignoring his rings and focusing on what? Individual play? MJ, Kareem, Wilt, Shaq are in that discussion for peak. Individual accolades? MJ, Kareem, and Russell have more MVPs. Stats? Wilt, and if you play the 30>22>18 routine, Wilt de-focused on offense and moreso on defense...and won more. If he were to solely concentrate on offense for his career and not turn morseo to defense on the back nine, no one else would be in the conversation for scoring, whether it be PPG or total points. And nobody touched 50/25.
1. Wilts stats are massively inflated

2. Wilt has too many chokejobs in the playoffs to even be considered in the GOAT convo

[k0kakw0rld]

Actually no, it was 1 all-star( Dirk) vs 3( Lebron, Wade, Bosh).
"Actually no" doesn't work well in debates. You lost an argument and there's no coming back for you.

[Phoenix]

"Actually no" doesn't work well in debates. You lost an argument and there's no coming back for you.

Cornball 'it takes a team to beat a KANG' bullshit doesn't work well in debates either, nor 'win' you an argument. It's a losers mindset in any event to proclaim that contrasting opinions on a random message board is some contest to be won or lost. Nobody gives a fukk about anything said here. This isn't a competition and nobody is sending cookies your way for your efforts that didn't prove anything. You must be one of the kiddies that thinks your existence is validated through posing for 'likes' in the mirror.

[And1AllDay]

1. Wilts stats are massively inflated

2. Wilt has too many chokejobs in the playoffs to even be considered in the GOAT convo

Manny got these boys all spinnin :dancin

[k0kakw0rld]

Cornball 'it takes a team to beat a KANG' bullshit doesn't work well in debates either, nor 'win' you an argument. It's a losers mindset in any event to proclaim that contrasting opinions on a random message board is some contest to be won or lost. Nobody gives a fukk about anything said here. This isn't a competition and nobody is sending cookies your way for your efforts that didn't prove anything. You must be one of the kiddies that thinks your existence is validated through posing for 'likes' in the mirror.
You don't know me at all. I am the last one to follow the mass. I am my own man. I don't give a damn about what anybody but myself, my family and my peers.

The real question: Why so serious? You on you period or something? :confusedshrug: :biggums:

If you read the OP, there is a reason why this thread was created.

The Kobe vs Duncan debate. Duncan pretty much had a better career overall than Kobe. For some reason Kobetards/MJ stan believe Kobe > Duncan because, Kobe has a winning record vs Duncan. Ignoring the fact that Kobe finished 6-16 vs LeBron.

Yes Dirk won against Lebron. But nobody ever considered "the Heatles" the goat team.

Whoever: "Dirk beat one of the all time great teams"

Me: "Well, Lebron beat the greatest team ever"

[Phoenix]

You don't know me at all. I am the last one to follow the mass. I am my own man. I don't give a damn about what anybody but myself, my family and my peers.

The real question: Why so serious? You on you period or something? :confusedshrug: :biggums:

If you read the OP, there is a reason why this thread was created.

The Kobe vs Duncan debate. Duncan pretty much had a better career overall than Kobe. For some reason Kobetards/MJ stan believe Kobe > Duncan because, Kobe has a winning record vs Duncan. Ignoring the fact that Kobe finished 6-16 vs LeBron.

Yes Dirk won against Lebron. But nobody ever considered "the Heatles" the goat team.

Whoever: "Dirk beat one of the all time great teams"

Me: "Well, Lebron beat the greatest team ever"

What an overdramatic meltdown to be asking if my period is on. Such irony. I don't know you nor give a damn about what you deem important in order to engage in a conversation. No doubt you feel the same towards me. But if the only things important to you are yourself, family and peers, then a bullshit ISH conversation should be beneath your own diginity to even declare a winner or loser about irrelevant basketball opinions. Its either you want a good discussion, to inform or be informed, or shout your opinion across the internet and think you won something. I don't care what you do, but pick a side.

[k0kakw0rld]

What an overdramatic meltdown to be asking if my period is on. Such irony. I don't know you nor give a damn about what you deem important in order to engage in a conversation. No doubt you feel the same towards me. But if the only things important to you are yourself, family and peers, then a bullshit ISH conversation should be beneath your own diginity to even declare a winner or loser about irrelevant basketball opinions. Its either you want a good discussion, to inform or be informed, or shout your opinion across the internet and think you won something. I don't care what you do, but pick a side.
Bro, you are the one who seems to care about me claiming a victory on a bullshit ISH conversation.

I am more than open to relevant/constructive basketball discussions. I have always preached how awful this forum has became. Trust me, I am one of the good guys here.

I managed to trigger and piss off a lot of people here. My troll game is simply better than what they are capable of bringing to the table. :confusedshrug:

[Phoenix]

Bro, you are the one who seems to care about me claiming a victory on a bullshit ISH conversation.

I am more than open to relevant/constructive basketball discussions. I have always preached how awful this forum has became. Trust me, I am one of the good guys here.

I managed to trigger and piss off a lot of people here. My troll game is simply better than what they are capable of bringing to the table. :confusedshrug:

No lets not get carried away, calling out what I deemed petty at the time shouldn't be confused with 'caring'. There's no 'care' in and about any of this. My thing is this board has more than enough genuine trolls that exist merely to disrupt and some of your earlier language, to me, was trending that direction.

We're in agreement that the board is mostly shit and its easy to get caught up in the nonsense due to the complete absence of remotely engaged moderation.

[Rico2016]

1. Wilts stats are massively inflated

2. Wilt has too many chokejobs in the playoffs to even be considered in the GOAT convo

King Manny putting in work

[k0kakw0rld]

No lets not get carried away, calling out what I deemed petty at the time shouldn't be confused with 'caring'. There's no 'care' in and about any of this. My thing is this board has more than enough genuine trolls that exist merely to disrupt and some of your earlier language, to me, was trending that direction.

We're in agreement that the board is mostly shit and its easy to get caught up in the nonsense due to the complete absence of remotely engaged moderation.
I am glad we are on the same page.

Trolling aside. I don't believe Bron is actually the GOAT.
I have 3rd greatest of all time.

My biggest problem with the GOAT conversation is MJ being called undisputed GOAT.

My Top 3:
1.KAJ
2.MJJ
3.LBJ

[And1AllDay]

:eek:

[colts19]

You don't know me at all. I am the last one to follow the mass. I am my own man. I don't give a damn about what anybody but myself, my family and my peers.

The real question: Why so serious? You on you period or something? :confusedshrug: :biggums:

If you read the OP, there is a reason why this thread was created.

The Kobe vs Duncan debate. Duncan pretty much had a better career overall than Kobe. For some reason Kobetards/MJ stan believe Kobe > Duncan because, Kobe has a winning record vs Duncan. Ignoring the fact that Kobe finished 6-16 vs LeBron.

Yes Dirk won against Lebron. But nobody ever considered "the Heatles" the goat team.

Whoever: "Dirk beat one of the all time great teams"

Me: "Well, Lebron beat the greatest team ever"
Lebron didn't beat the greatest team ever. That would be the 86 Celtics.

[paksat]

you can try all you want, facts are facts https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8M7yBjtx_Ic&t=257s

[ELITEpower23]

Orlando Woolridge put up better numbers in 1986 playoffs than both Wade and Bosh did in 2014 Finals. Oakley's 10-10 >>>>>>> Bosh's 14-5

MJ had 2 perennial All-Stars in 1986. Easily had more help than LeBron had in 2014.

The evidence is overwhelming

[light]

Both playoffs and regular season

So according to many here

Kobe > Duncan because of the records

so Bird and Isiah > Jordan? :confusedshrug:

These records against eachother are not in games of 1 on 1.

Team vs team.

But on the other hand Bird and Isiah at the time were in fact better team players. Jordan wouldn't become a winner until he started playing more like them.

Phil Jackson, Eleven Rings, pg. 81-82:

"My first step was to talk to Michael… I knew Michael wasn't a fan of the triangle… This was not going to be an easy conversation. Basically I was planning to ask Michael, who had won his third scoring title in a row the previous season, to reduce the number of shots he took so that other members of the team could get more involved with the offense. 'The important thing is to let everybody touch the ball, so they won't feel like spectators. You can't beat a good defensive team with one man. It's got to be a team effort.'"

Who knows what it all means.

[Axe]

These records against eachother are not in games of 1 on 1.

Team vs team.

But on the other hand Bird and Isiah at the time were in fact better team players. Jordan wouldn't become a winner until he started playing more like them.

Phil Jackson, Eleven Rings, pg. 81-82:

"My first step was to talk to Michael… I knew Michael wasn't a fan of the triangle… This was not going to be an easy conversation. Basically I was planning to ask Michael, who had won his third scoring title in a row the previous season, to reduce the number of shots he took so that other members of the team could get more involved with the offense. 'The important thing is to let everybody touch the ball, so they won't feel like spectators. You can't beat a good defensive team with one man. It's got to be a team effort.'"

Who knows what it all means.
You do realize that jordan didn't shine at all until the 90s, right? Those were his and the bulls glorious times.

But sure. Let us pick on him for being a total scrub in the 80s.