Manu Ginobili is better than Hakeem Olajuwon

[Uncle Drew]

https://twitter.com/espn975/status/1097595207846166530

https://media.tenor.com/images/f1f4b3b7c2143b65fe3935ca6ade677c/tenor.gif

[FKAri]

"I'm just gonna throw that out there."
"I'mma throw you out of the building."

:roll:

[SouBeachTalents]

"I'm just gonna throw that out there."
"I'mma throw you out of the building."

:roll:
:oldlol:

There

[Ghost1]

LeShannon said Dirk is not even top 50.

[Akeem34TheDream]

No comments needed.

[bigkingsfan]

LeShannon said Dirk is not even top 50.
That was for current players.

[Ghost1]

LeShannon's reacts to Manu>Dirk

https://streamable.com/g0aci

[Ghost1]

That was for current players.

then he's not even top500

[Euroleague]

https://twitter.com/espn975/status/1097595207846166530

https://media.giphy.com/media/xT9IgKK9NVmEZxYTeM/giphy.gif

[AirBonner]

Not better than Hakeem, but he was better than Kobe

[Kblaze8855]

He argued Manu was better than Dirk because hes a better clutch shot maker, leader, and "ring winner"....

That guy gets millions of dollars to talk basketball.

Though I suppose annoying people with bullshit that gets views is why.

[nayte]

That needs to be added to the dumb stuff said on ish thread. Geez.

[ImKobe]

Manu did outplay prime Duncan in the Finals (deserved MVP) in 2005. Skip might be onto something here.

[raprap]

Manu did outplay prime Duncan in the Finals (deserved MVP) in 2005. Skip might be onto something here.
That logic is so flawed :oldlol:

[Kawhi]

That logic is so flawed :oldlol:
It's not true either.

[ImKobe]

It's not true either.

Who saved that series?

Manu 19 ppg 64%TS
Duncan 21 ppg 47%TS (worst by a finals MVP in the modern era)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GqdBeYXx4L0

Manu also beat Duncan in the Olympics with a much worse team.

[Walk on Water]

Manu is better. He has more rings. Hakeem wouldn

[ralph_i_el]

[QUOTE=Walk on Water]Manu is better. He has more rings. Hakeem wouldn

[Ben Simmons 25]

He argued Manu was better than Dirk because hes a better clutch shot maker, leader, and "ring winner"....

That guy gets millions of dollars to talk basketball.

Though I suppose annoying people with bullshit that gets views is why.

Exactly correct.

This guy is basically an ISH troll.

Most of the time he says shit that he doesn't even believe, at least, not to the extent that he says it. He's literally trying to obtain views. There is no way in hell that he actually believes that Manu is better than Hakeem and if someone held a gun to his head and said God personally gave me an envelope that contains the name of the guy of these two that was the better player and if you pick the wrong name, I'm going to kill you... Skip is going to say Hakeem and he's not going to think twice about it literally ever.

The guys that post here just do it for attention and for fun. That guy does it so he can make a shit ton of money. It's an ISH troll's wet dream job.

Like there is maybe one LeBron troll and maybe one Kobe troll that actually believes the shit they say to the extent that they say they do. None of them are truly that irrational... well, very few, anyways. And so many guys here have kept it up for so long and to such extremes that they're just caricatures.

Then of course we have super troll accounts like the guy two posters above me that continue to garner views and responses from people, even from YOU, that think he's serious... when he's anything but. It's quite comical.

[Ben Simmons 25]

Hell... I made a couple of threads about how Brandon Ingram should be an MVP candidate this year and he would be if LeBron didn't sign on the Lakers and initially I had people believing I truly thought that way.

There are a ton of dumb ISH posters but there are maybe only a total of 5 active usernames that are quite as dumb as they portray themselves to be. Maybe. Guys like Real14 are one of those really dumb 5. He's an exception.

Most of the people around here are dumb but they're not THAT dumb... they know what they're doing. They're caricatures. Nothing more.

[MrFonzworth]

Hell... I made a couple of threads about how Brandon Ingram should be an MVP candidate this year and he would be if LeBron didn't sign on the Lakers and initially I had people believing I truly thought that way.

There are a ton of dumb ISH posters but there are maybe only a total of 5 active usernames that are quite as dumb as they portray themselves to be. Maybe. Guys like Real14 are one of those really dumb 5. He's an exception.

Most of the people around here are dumb but they're not THAT dumb... they know what they're doing. They're caricatures. Nothing more.
Glad we have you here to set us straight and tell us how it is.

[Ben Simmons 25]

Glad we have you here to set us straight and tell us how it is.

You seem to act as if most people are aware just how truly deep the troll accounts go. They don't. The mods don't even know. There are accounts on here that have been posting for literal years that still have people arguing with them to this day every single time they post as if the other person was serious when they're anything but. I mean there are multiple troll accounts on this place that are literally reverse trolling. They're making posts about stuff that is the OPPOSITE of what they actually believe.

Maybe Jeff does because he has access to IPs but he's not attentive enough for me to confidently say even he's truly aware.

[kennethgriffen]

while i do believe manu is the most underrated/under appreciated/under-utilized player in nba history and rightful owner of the 2005 finals mvp and skill wise probably in the top 30 all time


and while i also factor in that he led his national team over the united states to an olympic gold medal and should be worshipped for it but its rarely talked about


there is no damn way he's better than hakeem

:roll:

[Mask the Embiid]

He's better than dirk, i agree with that.Never seen Hakeem play but appearently big wiggle is a poor man's version of him....Im rolling with the dream hands down.

Manu > Dirk tho

Dirk was a career choker and 2011 seems to make people forget.Manu never folded like dirk

[Kblaze8855]

Carlos Arroyo, Spanoulis, Manu, Pau, and Peja all beat team USA at some point from 02-06. We only beat Lithuania by a jumper in 2000. Jasikevičius had a shot to win the gold and missed.

All kinds of people not anywhere near Hakeem or Dirk beat America back then. The 02 team withPaul Pierce, Ben Wallace, Jermaine O

[kennethgriffen]

[QUOTE=Kblaze8855]Carlos Arroyo, Spanoulis, Manu, Pau, and Peja all beat team USA at some point from 02-06. We only beat Lithuania by a jumper in 2000. Jasikevičius had a shot to win the gold and missed.

All kinds of people not anywhere near Hakeem or Dirk beat America back then. The 02 team withPaul Pierce, Ben Wallace, Jermaine O

[Kawhi]

Who saved that series?

Manu 19 ppg 64%TS
Duncan 21 ppg 47%TS (worst by a finals MVP in the modern era)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GqdBeYXx4L0

Manu also beat Duncan in the Olympics with a much worse team.
Ah, so now efficiency matters? Lol.

Nonetheless, if scoring and TS% were all that mattered, then yeah. However, they don't. Defense, rebounding, they matter just as much. 21/14 with elite defense on a team that won with defense. Seems about right. If those are the criteria you go by, you must think Porker deserved FMVP over Timmy in 2007 too.

What does that last sentence have to do with this?

[Akeem34TheDream]

Hell... I made a couple of threads about how Brandon Ingram should be an MVP candidate this year and he would be if LeBron didn't sign on the Lakers and initially I had people believing I truly thought that way.

There are a ton of dumb ISH posters but there are maybe only a total of 5 active usernames that are quite as dumb as they portray themselves to be. Maybe. Guys like Real14 are one of those really dumb 5. He's an exception.

Most of the people around here are dumb but they're not THAT dumb... they know what they're doing. They're caricatures. Nothing more.
Holy sht i believed that you were serious about Ingram. Feel so dumb right now. But to my defence, you were saying that "he is just a young Kevin Durant that had similar 3p% last year." so it made a little sense.

[Rudeboy3]

Manu isn't better than Hakeem but do you know who is though? Giannis

[Wally450]

[QUOTE=Walk on Water]Manu is better. He has more rings. Hakeem wouldn

[ImKobe]

Ah, so now efficiency matters? Lol.

Nonetheless, if scoring and TS% were all that mattered, then yeah. However, they don't. Defense, rebounding, they matter just as much. 21/14 with elite defense on a team that won with defense. Seems about right. If those are the criteria you go by, you must think Porker deserved FMVP over Timmy in 2007 too.

What does that last sentence have to do with this?

Duncan was terrible in that series and got bailed out. Do you remember Game 5? 1/4 from the FT line in the last minute to give Detroit a chance to win in OT. Horry scores 18 pts in 4th + OT and hits the game-winner.

4th quarter stats

Manu 6 ppg 46/38/88 +2
Horry 4.2 ppg 63/63/100 +2.3
Duncan 4.3 ppg 38/0/42 -0.2

I'm sorry, but nothing about that series screamed MVP for Duncan. It's not like he shut down Sheed and Ben Wallace for the series. He had two good games to start the series and played badly for the rest of it. They're lucky not to get backdoor swept.

[tontoz]

I think Hakeem might have become a bit overrated over the years. He could be a black hole and settled for tough jumpers too often.

But Bayless is clearly trolling.

[tontoz]

He's better than dirk, i agree with that.Never seen Hakeem play but appearently big wiggle is a poor man's version of him....Im rolling with the dream hands down.

Manu > Dirk tho

Dirk was a career choker and 2011 seems to make people forget.Manu never folded like dirk


Huh? Dirk was a beast in the playoffs, 25/10 with a TS of 58% for his career in the playoffs.

[Kblaze8855]

spain was actually loaded though... manu's team wasn't


I guess it depends on the year you mean. In 02 Pau beat a team USA with 9 nba all stars and he had Navarro, Calderon, and Garbajosa as the only nba players. Argentina had 7 NBA players in 2004. By 06 and in 08 Spain was loaded though. They had 8 NBA players by then. Not that the only standard is how many NBA players you have....but if you have 9 guys in the NBA you probably have a great international team you know?

Carlos Arroyo beat America and Spain though. Also beat Yugoslavia who had 7 NBA players(2 of them all stars) and Dejan Bodiroga who just chose not to come over. Did it as Puerto Ricos only NBA player.

International ball is weird like that at times.

[kennethgriffen]

I guess it depends on the year you mean. In 02 Pau beat a team USA with 9 nba all stars and he had Navarro, Calderon, and Garbajosa as the only nba players. Argentina had 7 NBA players in 2004. By 06 and in 08 Spain was loaded though. They had 8 NBA players by then. Not that the only standard is how many NBA players you have....but if you have 9 guys in the NBA you probably have a great international team you know?

Carlos Arroyo beat America and Spain though. Also beat Yugoslavia who had 7 NBA players(2 of them all stars) and Dejan Bodiroga who just chose not to come over. Did it as Puerto Ricos only NBA player.

International ball is weird like that at times.



nobody cares about 02

the USA sent the worst team i've ever seen assembled


antonio davis
lafrentz
andre miller
jermaine oneal
jay williams
brand
finley
retired reggie lmao



canada coulda beat those bums

[Ghost1]

I guess it depends on the year you mean. In 02 Pau beat a team USA with 9 nba all stars and he had Navarro, Calderon, and Garbajosa as the only nba players. Argentina had 7 NBA players in 2004. By 06 and in 08 Spain was loaded though. They had 8 NBA players by then. Not that the only standard is how many NBA players you have....but if you have 9 guys in the NBA you probably have a great international team you know?

Carlos Arroyo beat America and Spain though. Also beat Yugoslavia who had 7 NBA players(2 of them all stars) and Dejan Bodiroga who just chose not to come over. Did it as Puerto Ricos only NBA player.

International ball is weird like that at times.


Daniel Santiago was a NBA player.

Greece beat team USA in 2006 without without NBA players.

[Kblaze8855]

nobody cares about 02

the USA sent the worst team i've ever seen assembled


antonio davis
lafrentz
andre miller
jermaine oneal
jay williams
brand
finley
retired reggie lmao



canada coulda beat those bums

If those guys plus prime Pierce, Baron Davis, Marion, and Ben Wallace are bums what are the teams with 1-2 fringe players who beat them?

Those years? 2000-06? Really showed you cant look at talent as simply as we thought. Even in 08 with 8 hall of famers, 3 all stars, and a great role player(Prince) we got tested.

Just didnt play ideal team ball.

[Kblaze8855]

Daniel Santiago was a NBA player.

Greece beat team USA in 2006 without without NBA players.


I was thinking Carlos had that one big stiff that looked like a caveman too but I cant remember his name.

I remember Arroyo was just clowning. Hitting Melo and Wade with ball fakes and floaters. Strutting around talking shit. On ISH we were all wondering what happens back in the NBA. If hed get more respect....and he just meekly accepted his role again.

[kennethgriffen]

If those guys plus prime Pierce, Baron Davis, Marion, and Ben Wallace are bums what are the teams with 1-2 fringe players who beat them?

Those years? 2000-06? Really showed you cant look at talent as simply as we thought. Even in 08 with 8 hall of famers, 3 all stars, and a great role player(Prince) we got tested.

Just didnt play ideal team ball.


bums


it was their C team


everyone knows that the only way to match international teams chemistry/cohesiveness/execution from playing together their whole lives is to put together the best talent the US has to offer


when you put a few good players with a bunch of average dudes its not enough. americas iso ball and 1 mentality morons from back in the day can't lead a squad like that over a well oiled euro club

[FKAri]

I guess it depends on the year you mean. In 02 Pau beat a team USA with 9 nba all stars and he had Navarro, Calderon, and Garbajosa as the only nba players. Argentina had 7 NBA players in 2004. By 06 and in 08 Spain was loaded though. They had 8 NBA players by then. Not that the only standard is how many NBA players you have....but if you have 9 guys in the NBA you probably have a great international team you know?

Carlos Arroyo beat America and Spain though. Also beat Yugoslavia who had 7 NBA players(2 of them all stars) and Dejan Bodiroga who just chose not to come over. Did it as Puerto Ricos only NBA player.

International ball is weird like that at times.
Synergy and variance is certainly a part of it but it also provides a glimpse into the fact that if you change the rules of the game, even a little, it can really alter player performance. This is why I don't buy the "he's a star he would've figured it out in any era", narrative. Everyone's impact would be different in another era. Some, drastically so. Some, not so much.

[Euroleague]

Who saved that series?

Manu 19 ppg 64%TS
Duncan 21 ppg 47%TS (worst by a finals MVP in the modern era)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GqdBeYXx4L0

Manu also beat Duncan in the Olympics with a much worse team.

Yeah but everyone was beating that 2004 USA team...

Italy
Puerto Rico
Lithuania
Argentina

refs helped USA to barely beat Spain and Greece in games they should have also lost...

[Euroleague]

spain was actually loaded though... manu's team wasn't

WTF are you talking about? Argentina was loaded from around 2002 to 2008.

[kennethgriffen]

WTF are you talking about? Argentina was loaded from around 2002 to 2008.


na

[Euroleague]

I guess it depends on the year you mean. In 02 Pau beat a team USA with 9 nba all stars and he had Navarro, Calderon, and Garbajosa as the only nba players. Argentina had 7 NBA players in 2004. By 06 and in 08 Spain was loaded though. They had 8 NBA players by then. Not that the only standard is how many NBA players you have....but if you have 9 guys in the NBA you probably have a great international team you know?

Carlos Arroyo beat America and Spain though. Also beat Yugoslavia who had 7 NBA players(2 of them all stars) and Dejan Bodiroga who just chose not to come over. Did it as Puerto Ricos only NBA player.

International ball is weird like that at times.

Spanoulis beat

Spain (at peak years)
Yugoslavia (at peak years)
Lithuania (at peak years)
USA
Russia (at peak years)
Serbia (at peak years)
Croatia (at peak years)
Slovenia (at peak years)
France (at peak years)

and so on. Hell, other than USA he beat them all on multiple occasions, and beat several of them many times.

He also beat Arroyo and Puerto Rico 3 times.

International ball isn't "weird". It was the way the Warriors play, but years before that ever became a thing in the NBA (which obviously the Warriors copied from FIBA).

If you have a dominant lead guard in FIBA, good defense, a physical and athletic team, with a couple rebounders, and a couple shooters, you can win against anyone, as long as that guard goes off.

That's why teams like Lithuania and Greece (Jasikevicius and Spanoulis) were so good at those years, despite having much less talent overall than teams like Spain or Yugoslavia.

France on the other hand, was never as good as it should have been, because Parker's lack of outside shooting was always a weakness.

[Euroleague]

bums


it was their C team


everyone knows that the only way to match international teams chemistry/cohesiveness/execution from playing together their whole lives is to put together the best talent the US has to offer


when you put a few good players with a bunch of average dudes its not enough. americas iso ball and 1 mentality morons from back in the day can't lead a squad like that over a well oiled euro club


This is one of the most ridiculous lies ever created by NBA only fans.

A very few international teams have guys playing together for a long time (Spain, Brazil, Argentina) - that't is.

Zero teams have guys playing "together their whole lives".

A lot of European national teams are turning over 5-10 players a year.

Some of these excuses from NBA fans are so absurd.

[Euroleague]

na


WTF?

Montecchia
Sanchez
Prigioni
Manu
Delfino
Nocioni
Scola
Sconochini
Oberto
Wolkowski
Herrmann
Farabello
L Gutierrez
Fernandez
Quinteros
Kammerichs
JP Gutierrez


That's easily the best Latin American team of all time.

[Kblaze8855]

Spanoulis beat

Spain (at peak years)
Yugoslavia (at peak years)
Lithuania (at peak years)
USA
Russia (at peak years)
Serbia (at peak years)
Croatia (at peak years)
Slovenia (at peak years)
France (at peak years)

and so on. Hell, other than USA he beat them all on multiple occasions, and beat several of them many times.

He also beat Arroyo and Puerto Rico 3 times.

International ball isn't "weird". It was the way the Warriors play, but years before that ever became a thing in the NBA (which obviously the Warriors copied from FIBA).

If you have a dominant lead guard in FIBA, good defense, a physical and athletic team, with a couple rebounders, and a couple shooters, you can win against anyone, as long as that guard goes off.

That's why teams like Lithuania and Greece (Jasikevicius and Spanoulis) were so good at those years, despite having much less talent overall than teams like Spain or Yugoslavia.

France on the other hand, was never as good as it should have been, because Parker's lack of outside shooting was always a weakness.



I think anyone who watched those games noticed the guard play is what gets you over internationally. Its kinda like college ball. One great guard...a point if possible...throws everything out the window. Especially if he can shoot.

[Levity]

theyre follwing the ISH threads model - obviously saying outrageous things for clicks and retweets. integrity? whats that?

[Loco 50]

Who saved that series?

Manu 19 ppg 64%TS
Duncan 21 ppg 47%TS (worst by a finals MVP in the modern era)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GqdBeYXx4L0

Manu also beat Duncan in the Olympics with a much worse team.
I'd understand a fan choosing a team with Marbs, Melo, Iverson and Stoudamire over the Argies before their careers had played out. I'd still think they were stupid and not trust their basketball knowledge, but I'd understand.

After their careers had played out though? :biggums: Kobe fans stay on that struggle bus.

Let's add a bunch of players with questionable at best jumpshots in Boozer, Marion, Odom and Jefferson with the complete offensive disaster in Okafor around the ball pounding ballas, and let's line them up against a squad that grew up playing together since childhood.

A squad in which each member was able to play their natural role and wasn't forced into roles that they'd struggle trying to fulfill. Like asking Wade or Lebronze to shoot perimeter shots while Duncan was manning the paint.

The Argentina squad would have been a Western Conference playoff squad. You'd think Laker fan would remember that since Manu and Oberto were 2/5 of the squad that waxed your f'n team, but Kobe fans always find a way to lower the bar.

As for 2005, the Spurs as a team beat the Pistons. They don't win without MVP level defense from Duncan. Too bad Kobe couldn't dig deep and change games with his defense. Always was a less impactful player though. :(