6,337 to 5,987: An unbreakable record?

[TheCorporation]

No one will ever pass LeBron's post season points scored:

https://i.postimg.cc/cH1y56C8/scoring-race.png

If 10 Finals, super longevity Kareem couldn't do it
If 6 Finals, I lost three times in first round MJ couldn't do it
If MDE Shaq couldn't do it
If most skilled Kobe scoring assassin couldn't do it

Only one man passed them all :pimp:

King GOAT James #1

#2 Jordan
#3 Kareem

As it should be

[kennethgriffen]

the thing is ...this actually makes lebron look worse


it just shows how he's had more opportunities than anyone and only has 3 rings to show for it with tons of controversy surrounding them



its like someone bragging about playing in 5 times as many poker tournaments to win half as many bracelets

[Kblaze8855]

These are such joke records if you know the history....luckily most dont so espn gets away with it.

You used to get a first round bye as a top seed....later you played a best of 3 first round...then best of 5. Go back far enough there was no first round at all.

Of course someone who played his whole career with more available playoff games would lead in total points.

They changed the rule to 4 seven game series in like 2003 or 2004. Every playoffs of his career had the extra games in the first round and compared to Kareem entire extra rounds since Kareem had the top seed bye. Kareem led a team to a title with 14 total playoff games. Lebron played 22 and lost last year.

You cant compare totals if you even halfway investigate the reasons for them.

[TheCorporation]

These are such joke records if you know the history....luckily most dont so espn gets away with it.

You used to get a first round bye as a top seed....later you played a best of 3 first round...then best of 5. Go back far enough there was no first round at all.

Of course someone who played his whole career with more available playoff games would lead in total points.

They changed the rule to 4 seven game series in like 2003 or 2004. Every playoffs of his career had the extra games in the first round and compared to Kareem entire extra rounds since Kareem had the top seed bye. Kareem led a team to a title with 14 total playoff games. Lebron played 22 and lost last year.

You cant compare totals if you even halfway investigate the reasons for them.

Did I stutter? No one will ever pass LeBron's post season points scored.

Let's even give your boy Kareem another 25 points at 25 extra games for 500 extra.

Guess what? LeBron still has more.

[aj1987]

These are such joke records if you know the history....luckily most dont so espn gets away with it.

You used to get a first round bye as a top seed....later you played a best of 3 first round...then best of 5. Go back far enough there was no first round at all.

Of course someone who played his whole career with more available playoff games would lead in total points.

They changed the rule to 4 seven game series in like 2003 or 2004. Every playoffs of his career had the extra games in the first round and compared to Kareem entire extra rounds since Kareem had the top seed bye. Kareem led a team to a title with 14 total playoff games. Lebron played 22 and lost last year.

You cant compare totals if you even halfway investigate the reasons for them.
That's cool and all, but LeBron has like 700 more points in only 2 more games played. So, unless Cap is capable of averaging 350 PPG in 2 games, you point is moot.

[TheCorporation]

That's cool and all, but LeBron has like 700 more points in only 2 more games played. So, unless Cap is capable of averaging 350 PPG in 2 games, you point is moot.

Hell, LeBron can spot EVERY player in league history 500 more points (25 points per game at 25 additional games) and he would still be #1

Let's just pretend Jordan didn't lose in the 1st round three times at 1-9 :lol

[kennethgriffen]

Did I stutter? No one will ever pass LeBron's post season points scored.

Let's even give your boy Kareem another 25 points at 25 extra games for 500 extra.

Guess what? LeBron still has more.


lebron won't even make the playoffs this year and will get bounced in the first round the next 4 years if he manages to

durant already nearly has 4000 playoff points and is only 29 years old.


he'll f*cking destroy lebrons record you absolute f@cking moron

:roll:

[Odinn]

That's cool and all, but LeBron has like 700 more points in only 2 more games played. So, unless Cap is capable of averaging 350 PPG in 2 games, you point is moot.
1970 playoffs, there was no 1st round. 4 or 5 games less compared to format LeBron has been playing in. Kareem averaged 35.2 ppg.
1971 playoffs, again no 1st round. 4 or 5 games less. Kareem's ppg 26.6.
1972 playoffs, again no 1st round. 4 or 5 games less. 28.7 ppg.
1973 playoffs, again no 1st round. 4 or 5 games less. 22.8 ppg.
1974 playoffs, again no 1st round. 4 or 5 games less. 32.2 ppg.
1977 playoffs, bo3 1st round but top teams let pass by. 4 or 5 games less. 34.6 ppg.
1978 playoffs, bo3 1st round. The Lakers lost by 1-2. At least 2 games less. 27.0 ppg.
1979 playoffs, bo3 1st round. At least 2 games less again. 28.5 ppg.
1980 playoffs, bo3 1st round, top teams let pass by. 4 or 5 games less. 31.9 ppg.
1981 playoffs, bo3 1st round. The Lakers lost by 1-2. At least 2 games less. 26.7 ppg.
1982 playoffs, bo3 1st round, top teams let pass by. 4 or 5 games less. 20.4 ppg.
1983 playoffs, bo3 1st round, top teams let pass by. 4 or 5 games less. 27.1 ppg.
1984 playoffs, finally everyone plays 1st round but bo3. 1 game less. 23.9 ppg.
1985 playoffs, bo3 1st round. 1 game less. 21.9 ppg.
1986 playoffs, bo3 1st round. 1 game less. 25.9 ppg.

Assuming he kept his averages over games didn't occur;
1970; somewhere between 140 (4 games possibility) - 175 (5 games possibility)
1971; somewhere between 106-133
1972; somewhere between 114-143
1973; somewhere between 91-114 114
1974; somewhere between 129-161
1977; somewhere between 138-173
1978; somewhere between 50-60
1979; somewhere between 55-60
1980; somewhere between 125-160
1981; somewhere between 50-55
1982; somewhere between 81-102
1983; somewhere between 108-135
1984; somewhere between 22-28
1985; somewhere between 20-24
1986; somewhere between 24-28

If you take every lesser possible number of games, he could have nearly 1250 points more.

This comment is just blatantly ignore his point.

[jstern]

For someone to pass it, they have to be the best player in the league while playing in an all time level weak conference. Thus deeper and deeper playoff runs.

But I will respect Lebron's more because the rules have kept getting softer and softer and so future players will score more points on even easier buckets, despite being less talented.

So multiple people, even less talented ones might even be able to break them.

[bullettooth]

You cant compare totals if you even halfway investigate the reasons for them.

Bron stans are incapable of this.

[aj1987]

1970 playoffs, there was no 1st round. 4 or 5 games less compared to format LeBron has been playing in. Kareem averaged 35.2 ppg.
1971 playoffs, again no 1st round. 4 or 5 games less. Kareem's ppg 26.6.
1972 playoffs, again no 1st round. 4 or 5 games less. 28.7 ppg.
1973 playoffs, again no 1st round. 4 or 5 games less. 22.8 ppg.
1974 playoffs, again no 1st round. 4 or 5 games less. 32.2 ppg.
1977 playoffs, bo3 1st round but top teams let pass by. 4 or 5 games less. 34.6 ppg.
1978 playoffs, bo3 1st round. The Lakers lost by 1-2. At least 2 games less. 27.0 ppg.
1979 playoffs, bo3 1st round. At least 2 games less again. 28.5 ppg.
1980 playoffs, bo3 1st round, top teams let pass by. 4 or 5 games less. 31.9 ppg.
1981 playoffs, bo3 1st round. The Lakers lost by 1-2. At least 2 games less. 26.7 ppg.
1982 playoffs, bo3 1st round, top teams let pass by. 4 or 5 games less. 20.4 ppg.
1983 playoffs, bo3 1st round, top teams let pass by. 4 or 5 games less. 27.1 ppg.
1984 playoffs, finally everyone plays 1st round but bo3. 1 game less. 23.9 ppg.
1985 playoffs, bo3 1st round. 1 game less. 21.9 ppg.
1986 playoffs, bo3 1st round. 1 game less. 25.9 ppg.

Assuming he kept his averages over games didn't occur;
1970; somewhere between 140 (4 games possibility) - 175 (5 games possibility)
1971; somewhere between 106-133
1972; somewhere between 114-143
1973; somewhere between 91-114 114
1974; somewhere between 129-161
1977; somewhere between 138-173
1978; somewhere between 50-60
1979; somewhere between 55-60
1980; somewhere between 125-160
1981; somewhere between 50-55
1982; somewhere between 81-102
1983; somewhere between 108-135
1984; somewhere between 22-28
1985; somewhere between 20-24
1986; somewhere between 24-28

If you take every lesser possible number of games, he could have nearly 1250 points more.

This comment is just blatantly ignore his point.
Are you high, dude? You just cannot extrapolate like that.



For someone to pass it, they have to be the best player in the league while playing in an all time level weak conference. Thus deeper and deeper playoff runs.

But I will respect Lebron's more because the rules have kept getting softer and softer and so future players will score more points on even easier buckets, despite being less talented.

So multiple people, even less talented ones might even be able to break them.

LeBron over the past 4 Finals has been averaging 33/12/9/2/1 on 48% vs the Warriors. Are they "all time level weak" as well?


Man, only when it comes to LeBron do records not count, because ":cry: :cry:".

[TheCorporation]

lebron won't even make the playoffs this year and will get bounced in the first round the next 4 years if he manages to

durant already nearly has 4000 playoff points and is only 29 years old.


he'll f*cking destroy lebrons record you absolute f@cking moron

:roll:

He will definitely destroy Kobe's record and push 12be out of the top 12. Yikes

Are you okay?

[TheCorporation]

Are you high, dude? You just cannot extrapolate like that.



LeBron over the past 4 Finals has been averaging 33/12/9/2/1 on 48% vs the Warriors. Are they "all time level weak" as well?


Man, only when it comes to LeBron do records not count, because ":cry: :cry:".

Precisely my point. When MJ had all the records it was "0mg!!!1!" But now that he is being passed up it's "Nah, who cares lol"

[aj1987]

lebron won't even make the playoffs this year and will get bounced in the first round the next 4 years if he manages to

durant already nearly has 4000 playoff points and is only 29 years old.


he'll f*cking destroy lebrons record you absolute f@cking moron

:roll:
Missed this gem, KD is at ~3,600 and is 30 and 6 months, you autistic dweeb. For him to pass LeBron, he would need to make the Finals and average 28.8 PPG when he's like 35 years old. Again, this is assuming that LeBron never makes the PO's again in his career.

[Marchesk]

All this means is that Lebron played in more playoff games.

[aj1987]

All this means is that Lebron played in more playoff games.
Doesn't Kareem's all-time scoring record also mean that he just played more games than anyone else?

[TheCorporation]

All this means is that Lebron played in more playoff games.

Ohh, so then losing in the 1st round three times actually is bad and advancing and making the Finals is better?
:hammerhead:

Thanks for proving my point

[3ball]

Ohh, so then losing in the 1st round three times actually is bad and advancing and making the Finals is better?



^^^ MJ made the Finals 6 times, so what are you talking about.. :biggums:


Jordan:. 6 conference finals wins + 6 Finals wins = 12 wins
LeBron:. 9 conference finals wins + 3 Finals wins = 12 wins

Jordan's 3 extra Finals wins > Lebron's 3 extra conference finals wins.. :rockon:


It's like lebron can't beat the top level that well (championship), so he beats the next level below as many times as possible.. that hella weak, and not goat obviously... :yaohappy:

[Kblaze8855]

That's cool and all, but LeBron has like 700 more points in only 2 more games played. So, unless Cap is capable of averaging 350 PPG in 2 games, you point is moot.


Kareem was 37 when they stopped having first round byes.

37.

And you could still win a series by taking the first two famed.

It

[jstern]

Are you high, dude? You just cannot extrapolate like that.



LeBron over the past 4 Finals has been averaging 33/12/9/2/1 on 48% vs the Warriors. Are they "all time level weak" as well?


Man, only when it comes to LeBron do records not count, because ":cry: :cry:".

Come on, use your head. Where did I said he's not capable of putting up good numbers against good competition. I wasn't even talking about Lebron, but how in the future a super all time great could easily come close if playing in an all time level weak conference. The point being that it will give them more opportunity to go on deeper playoff runs year after year. You know, more games.

[aj1987]

[QUOTE=Kblaze8855]Kareem was 37 when they stopped having first round byes.

37.

And you could still win a series by taking the first two famed.

It

[Kblaze8855]

Even if you look at just PPG, LeBron James has like 5 PPG on KAJ. Even if he falls 3 PPG as you suggest, LeBron would be comfortably ahead of Kareem, while playing a shit ton of more games.

You can try to diminish this as much as you want, but you just cannot.

I dont need to dimish it. I need only for common sense to be applied.

Jerry West loses the finals in 5 games after scoring 447 points in the playoffs. Lebron scored more than that in 10 playoff runs.

But

Jerry scored 41ppg those playoffs.


Rick Barry took his team to game 6 of the finals. Had 521 points. Good for 8th most for a Lebron playoffs.

He scored 35ppg.


Kareem puts up 32ppg leading his team to the NBA title....and this is in the 80s. Has 479 points. Good for 11th best of Lebrons career. Wins the title. 32ppg.

11th best for Lebron.

I shouldnt have to explain this...

Career playoff totals are a joke for 2 reasons...

They are WORSE when you are more dominant. If you sweep every series you have worse totals than fighting for every series...despite playing better.

They obviously favor current players who never played with shorter or eliminated early rounds which are 99% of the time just a high seed stacking totals in a series that isnt competitive.


It doesnt matter who the player is. This subject first came up for me when Kobe fans were talking about him having the most 600 point playoff runs as if playing more dominant doesnt reduce totals....and ignoring that it would be possible to put up 74ppg and win the title and not have 600 points in some eras.

Its not a legit all time comparison because everyone doesnt have anything close to a fair chance. And even if they did....as I said....playing better REDUCES totals because you end a series faster.

Its nothing but trivia for people who arent thinking what they say through. Just use playoff PPG. And even that is hard while people are still playing.

Lebrons an elite playoff scorer. He just isnt the best. He just happens to play at a time where his totals can suggest it to people who dont know better. This shouldnt need explaining when 91 Jordan puts up 31ppg leading his team to a title and has less total playoff points than 2016 Kyrie(1 less to be exact).

[eliteballer]

https://scontent-sjc3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/52729349_1247691675381025_3527666539551522816_n.jp g?_nc_cat=1&_nc_ht=scontent-sjc3-1.xx&oh=a038a0c673cae64c130f7827da684a05&oe=5CE4A6F2

[Rico2016]

No one will ever pass LeBron's post season points scored:

https://i.postimg.cc/cH1y56C8/scoring-race.png

If 10 Finals, super longevity Kareem couldn't do it
If 6 Finals, I lost three times in first round MJ couldn't do it
If MDE Shaq couldn't do it
If most skilled Kobe scoring assassin couldn't do it

Only one man passed them all :pimp:

King GOAT James #1

#2 Jordan
#3 Kareem

As it should be

100% not in 60 years brother :cheers:

[Gileraracer]

He got the name 'Empty stat James' for a reason :pimp:

[Wally450]

^^^ MJ made the Finals 6 times, so what are you talking about.. :biggums:


Jordan:. 6 conference finals wins + 6 Finals wins = 12 wins
LeBron:. 9 conference finals wins + 3 Finals wins = 12 wins

Jordan's 3 extra Finals wins > Lebron's 3 extra conference finals wins.. :rockon:


It's like lebron can't beat the top level that well (championship), so he beats the next level below as many times as possible.. that hella weak, and not goat obviously... :yaohappy:

Now put Lebron against Jordan's opponents and Jordan against LeBron's opponents and see how many rings each gets.

[Overdrive]

Did I stutter? No one will ever pass LeBron's post season points scored.

Let's even give your boy Kareem another 25 points at 25 extra games for 500 extra.

Guess what? LeBron still has more.

25^2 = 625 which would put him at #1.

[Shaquille O'Neal]

lebron won't even make the playoffs this year and will get bounced in the first round the next 4 years if he manages to

durant already nearly has 4000 playoff points and is only 29 years old.


he'll f*cking destroy lebrons record you absolute f@cking moron

:roll:



No, because Durant doesn't Fck around and let teams like Indiana go 7 games. Last 9 finals games Durant has won 8 of them.


These kids are bragging about participation trophies. If he has so many playoff points then why hasn't that parlayed into more rings?
1*/9 Leroids.
Only stat that matters = Lebron will never have - 6 FMVP trophies.

[Shaquille O'Neal]

Lebrons an elite playoff scorer. He just isnt the best. He just happens to play at a time where his totals can suggest it to people who dont know better. This shouldnt need explaining when 91 Jordan puts up 31ppg leading his team to a title and has less total playoff points than 2016 Kyrie(1 less to be exact).



Excellent post, and I have KAJ at #2 all time and certainly feel people that think he's the GOAT aren't wrong.
Has anyone scored more in a single playoff season than Jordan did in 93?
Anyone know?

[FKAri]

Lebrons an elite playoff scorer. He just isnt the best. He just happens to play at a time where his totals can suggest it to people who dont know better. This shouldnt need explaining when 91 Jordan puts up 31ppg leading his team to a title and has less total playoff points than 2016 Kyrie(1 less to be exact).
Lebron's an opportunistic scorer. Probably the GOAT opportunistic scorer. He is incredible at finding weaknesses in the defense and exploiting it. But he is unable to overpower great defenses on the level that some of the elite scorers could.

[Odinn]

Are you high, dude? You just cannot extrapolate like that.

ROFL. Your approach was more accurate, yes?
He talked about format being different and its impact on Kareem's totals. And you had to suck your boy. Gratz. Done nicely.

[TheImmortal]

aj1987 proving again and again that he's an illiterate bitchboy that was obviously slammed head first by his crackwhore of a mother during infancy. OP you're an idiot. At the end of the day Bran is 3-6 and hasn't done shit in the real NBA (western conference) despite his collusion.

[And1AllDay]

aj1987 proving again and again that he's an illiterate bitchboy that was obviously slammed head first by his crackwhore of a mother during infancy. OP you're an idiot. At the end of the day Bran is 3-6 and hasn't done shit in the real NBA (western conference) despite his collusion.

How many players have 6k (or more) points in the playoffs?

[aj1987]

I'm proving again and again that i'm an illiterate bitchboy that was obviously slammed head first by my crackwhore of a mother during infancy.
Good for you, kiddo. Your crack whore mom should've smothered you at birth or the dumpster you were shat into should've been set on fire. The world doesn't need a subhuman piece of shit like yourself. I literally would pay money to see you get euthanized. The world doesn't need cretins like you. :cheers:


ROFL. Your approach was more accurate, yes?
He talked about format being different and its impact on Kareem's totals. And you had to suck your boy. Gratz. Done nicely.
Yeah, you definitely are on drugs. Even if you take their averages, Kareem was at 29.1 till he was 34. LeBron right now is at 28.9.

If you're just going to extrapolate, did you take into account pace? Did you take into account the lack of competition (there for the lack of competition). When was LeBron even in a conference with a #1 seed which won 53 games? Lets not forget that KAJ was battling 36, 37, 38, etc. win behemoths in the PO's.

Again, ignoring the level of competition, if you can you compute the numbers taking pace into account? The average pace of a KAJ team was ~107. The average pace of a LeBron team is ~93.

Try being not being a complete and utter moron and come back with a coherent argument, ****head. :cheers:

[Kblaze8855]

Yeah, you definitely are on drugs. Even if you take their averages, Kareem was at 29.1 till he was 34. LeBron right now is at 28.9.

Is that supposed to be a point in Lebrons favor?



If you're just going to extrapolate, did you take into account pace? Did you take into account the lack of competition (there for the lack of competition). When was LeBron even in a conference with a #1 seed which won 53 games?

2017....



Lets not forget that KAJ was battling 36, 37, 38, etc. win behemoths in the PO's.


When Kareem was at his peak he didnt have a first round to play the bad teams in. You are talking the mid to late 80s Lakers when they played the Kings, Sonics, and so on...when Kareem was nearly 40 and barely even getting up for those games. he put up 16, 19, and 17ppg vs the teams you mean...because he was 38-40 and not needed to push himself vs shit teams. He played like 28 minutes. Those series? They HURT his numbers. The real Kareem?

From his rookie year to age 36? These are the records of every playoff opponent....

42, 62, 42, 48, 41, 51, 69, 47, 47, 54, 56, 46, 49(only because Walton missed so many regular season games...the team won the title then went 50-8 with Walton playing the next season before he ruined his career), 47, 52, 55, 56, 59, 40, 46, 48, 58, 46, 53, 65

Perfectly good teams. Several all time great....and he was often at his most productive vs them. He put up 34/18/5 vs the 69 win team. He put up 38/19/5 vs teams that won titles. He did numbers vs Walton. Vs Philly. He was finals MVP at 37. Kareem didnt feast on bad teams. Like I said...he often didnt have a first round opponent to stack numbers against when he was way more likely to explode for big games in his youth. Kareem went hardest when he had something to prove. Vs someone like Wilt he would shoot 35-40 times and coast vs bums. Kareem isnt the guy to use "But he played bad teams...." against. Kareem went hardest vs great players and teams. He might play 27 minutes vs the shitty teams they could beat up on in the mid to late 80s. He was old. Why have an old guy wear out vs teams you dont need him to beat? Dont take my word for it. Go check. he was having 12 point games vs the shitty playoff teams in the mid to late 80s. He wasnt having those vs the Blazers, Sonics, and Lakers who could compete in his prime.



Again, ignoring the level of competition, if you can you compute the numbers taking pace into account? The average pace of a KAJ team was ~107. The average pace of a LeBron team is ~93.

If we are gonna talk competition...

What might a 25 year old Kareem do today vs a bunch of stretch 5s who dont know how to defend anyone in the post? You surround him with shooters to make double teaming near impossible....you cant guard Kareem. He was 40 giving 45 and 47 points in single coverage to 90s DPOYs who played into the 2000s. He gives Hakeem 45 on 70% shooting when he should already be retired. Put Brook Lopez on him with a team of shooters that can score 125 3 times a week like teams do now and see how it goes.

Kareem was working harder in 1977 than he would be today. By a lot. I can show you legit on the ball triple teams in the playoffs with his guards missing the resulting open shots. Put him with modern shooters. See how well you can defend a guy his size, his mobile, and that skilled. Guys cant guard Embiid in the post and he isnt half as polished as Kareem and is LESS mobile.

Kareem would make a mockery of 2019 defenses.

[Odinn]

Good for you, kiddo. Your crack whore mom should've smothered you at birth or the dumpster you were shat into should've been set on fire. The world doesn't need a subhuman piece of shit like yourself. I literally would pay money to see you get euthanized. The world doesn't need cretins like you. :cheers:


Yeah, you definitely are on drugs. Even if you take their averages, Kareem was at 29.1 till he was 34. LeBron right now is at 28.9.

If you're just going to extrapolate, did you take into account pace? Did you take into account the lack of competition (there for the lack of competition). When was LeBron even in a conference with a #1 seed which won 53 games? Lets not forget that KAJ was battling 36, 37, 38, etc. win behemoths in the PO's.

Again, ignoring the level of competition, if you can you compute the numbers taking pace into account? The average pace of a KAJ team was ~107. The average pace of a LeBron team is ~93.

Try being not being a complete and utter moron and come back with a coherent argument, ****head. :cheers:
You sure are mad. Haha.
You didn't like getting proved wrong, did you. You must suck your boy no matter what. Cheers for dedication though. It's not easy to be an idiot by choice.

[aj1987]

Is that supposed to be a point in Lebrons favor?
I'm just showing that even if you just go off of averages and take some of KAJ's BEST years, the difference if only 0.2 PPG. IF the Lakers make the PO's this season and you add in KAJ's '83 season as well, the gap is only going to widen.


2017....
Yeah, I'll hold the L on that one.


When Kareem was at his peak he didnt have a first round to play the bad teams in. You are talking the mid to late 80s Lakers when they played the Kings, Sonics, and so on...when Kareem was nearly 40 and barely even getting up for those games. he put up 16, 19, and 17ppg vs the teams you mean...because he was 38-40 and not needed to push himself vs shit teams. He played like 28 minutes. Those series? They HURT his numbers. The real Kareem?

From his rookie year to age 36? These are the records of every playoff opponent....

42, 62, 42, 48, 41, 51, 69, 47, 47, 54, 56, 46, 49(only because Walton missed so many regular season games...the team won the title then went 50-8 with Walton playing the next season before he ruined his career), 47, 52, 55, 56, 59, 40, 46, 48, 58, 46, 53, 65

Perfectly good teams. Several all time great....and he was often at his most productive vs them. He put up 34/18/5 vs the 69 win team. He put up 38/19/5 vs teams that won titles. He did numbers vs Walton. Vs Philly. He was finals MVP at 37. Kareem didnt feast on bad teams. Like I said...he often didnt have a first round opponent to stack numbers against when he was way more likely to explode for big games in his youth. Kareem went hardest when he had something to prove. Vs someone like Wilt he would shoot 35-40 times and coast vs bums. Kareem isnt the guy to use "But he played bad teams...." against. Kareem went hardest vs great players and teams. He might play 27 minutes vs the shitty teams they could beat up on in the mid to late 80s. He was old. Why have an old guy wear out vs teams you dont need him to beat? Dont take my word for it. Go check. he was having 12 point games vs the shitty playoff teams in the mid to late 80s. He wasnt having those vs the Blazers, Sonics, and Lakers who could compete in his prime.

If we are gonna talk competition...

What might a 25 year old Kareem do today vs a bunch of stretch 5s who dont know how to defend anyone in the post? You surround him with shooters to make double teaming near impossible....you cant guard Kareem. He was 40 giving 45 and 47 points in single coverage to 90s DPOYs who played into the 2000s. He gives Hakeem 45 on 70% shooting when he should already be retired. Put Brook Lopez on him with a team of shooters that can score 125 3 times a week like teams do now and see how it goes.

Kareem was working harder in 1977 than he would be today. By a lot. I can show you legit on the ball triple teams in the playoffs with his guards missing the resulting open shots. Put him with modern shooters. See how well you can defend a guy his size, his mobile, and that skilled. Guys cant guard Embiid in the post and he isnt half as polished as Kareem and is LESS mobile.

Kareem would make a mockery of 2019 defenses.
Funny how you typed all that and you ignored the main point of my post.

Again, ignoring the level of competition, if you can you compute the numbers taking pace into account? The average pace of a KAJ team was ~107. The average pace of a LeBron team is ~93.

Once again, if you're just going to throw in series and games and extrapolate his numbers, try taking into account pace as well.

Don't bother. I'll do it for you. KAJ's teams played, on average, played at a pace of 107.3 (doing it till the '82 season, when he was 34, comparable to LeBron at 34). LeBron's teams, on average, played at a pace of 92.1. That's and increase of 14% in pace. So, if we're going to pace adjust KAJ's numbers, his scoring average would be 25.1. If you extrapolate that to his 237 career PO games, that brings his total PO scoring to 5949. About 960 points short of LeBron James.

So yeah, stop trying to diminish a record that LeBron hold and will, quite possibly, hold for a very long time.


You sure are mad. Haha.
You didn't like getting proved wrong, did you. You must suck your boy no matter what. Cheers for dedication though. It's not easy to be an idiot by choice.
You know you've lost when you can't even refute a single point. Wouldn't expect anything more from a person with shit for brains like yourself though. :cheers:

[Odinn]

You know you've lost when you can't even refute a single point. Wouldn't expect anything more from a person with shit for brains like yourself though. :cheers:
You didn't even try to have a conversation. You just tried to diminish because you didn't like it. It doesn't suit your boy. Cheers though. Surely. :cheers:

I mean he talked about less number of games Kareem played due to format, and you had the feel to change topic to level of competition and pace because you know what his initial argument was true. ROFL.

[Rico2016]

No one will ever pass LeBron's post season points scored:

https://i.postimg.cc/cH1y56C8/scoring-race.png

If 10 Finals, super longevity Kareem couldn't do it
If 6 Finals, I lost three times in first round MJ couldn't do it
If MDE Shaq couldn't do it
If most skilled Kobe scoring assassin couldn't do it

Only one man passed them all :pimp:

King GOAT James #1

#2 Jordan
#3 Kareem

As it should be

Every single Jordan stan after they stomached this:

http://i63.tinypic.com/wlufsx.gif

[Kblaze8855]

Funny how you typed all that and you ignored the main point of my post.

Again, ignoring the level of competition, if you can you compute the numbers taking pace into account? The average pace of a KAJ team was ~107. The average pace of a LeBron team is ~93.

Once again, if you're just going to throw in series and games and extrapolate his numbers, try taking into account pace as well.

Don't bother. I'll do it for you. KAJ's teams played, on average, played at a pace of 107.3 (doing it till the '82 season, when he was 34, comparable to LeBron at 34). LeBron's teams, on average, played at a pace of 92.1. That's and increase of 14% in pace. So, if we're going to pace adjust KAJ's numbers, his scoring average would be 25.1. If you extrapolate that to his 237 career PO games, that brings his total PO scoring to 5949. About 960 points short of LeBron James.

That whole line of thinking is ****ing stupid for any number of reasons. basketball doesnt work that way. Go look at Lebrons first Cavs runs pace and compare it to the Lakers now. He put up 31ppg on an 89.8 pace. Kobe the same year did 35 on 90. The lowest pace today is 96 and the highest is 104. Doesnt mean Kobe and Lebrons numbers increase at that rate if you put them on todays Hawks.

There are so many factors a basketball fan putting some thought into it shouldnt need it explained.

How is a 7'3'' center who often starts the break and watches guards run without him supposed to score more because the guards push the pace and score while hes not even at halfcourt?

Did you watch showtime? Even in highlights?

How often was magic running and dropping it off to Kareem?

Now and then...but not often. The Lakers pace was high because of Magic pushing the ball while Kareem didnt even come up the floor. The extra possessions didnt do much for him. You can watch his Bucks games on youtube. Kareem got the ball when they SLOWED DOWN.

You can go watch entire games of Kareem vs Lakers wilt. Crazy pace....and Kareem and Wilt arent even in the frame when the guards get down the floor.

Kareem and Wilt get the ball off made baskets when its walked up. Off a miss you NEVER see them get the ball.

The pace is pushed...while they arent even involved. They got the ball out of dead ball situations and after made baskets when guards gave them time to get up the floor before bringing it up. Both guards would stay back and put the ball in to eachother. Or a small forward. Kareem wouldnt take it out after a made basket he would get down the court so hed have time to be ivolved in the play. On the Lakers he would take it out but quickly so the guards could run even on a made basket.

Kareem wasnt the main beneficiary of playing fast. When those teams slowed down he got the ball more. Damn near every play that wasnt a break went through him. Cut out some of the running he might have been taking 30 shots a game early in his career. Every time they walk it up he got the ball. Every time they ran he didnt. Kareem literally isnt even in the shot off missed baskets. It increases the team pace...but what does it do for his scoring numbers?

When your team has a 105 pace, you play 40 minutes a game, and only take 17 shots a night are you even taking advantage of that pace? The years Kareem took a lot of shots...it was because they would give him the ball on every time down when they didnt run. The pace would be high...but not because of him. If they waited for him every time the pace drops but he probably takes 30+ shots a night and averages in the 40s.

These games are online to watch. Plenty of them. You can watch Bucks Kareem play the Celtics, Knicks, Lakers, and others in full games. But you probably arent going to. I have...because I like to know what im talking about.

You talking numbers and ignoring basketball.


So yeah, stop trying to diminish a record that LeBron hold and will, quite possibly, hold for a very long time.

**** outta here. Its a "Dont know anything about the sport" record. Its no different than people talking up 2000 yard seasons by running backs in the NFL and ignoring that OJ Simpson and Jim Brown played with 12 and 14 game seasons and both had more yards per game at their best than anyone who ran for more total yards in a season. Rasheed goes to 3 finals but played more playoff games than Hondo who went to 8. Why are we playing dumb? These are "records" that have no all time comparison because nobody before 2003 played under the current format so in time...it will be entirely new era players.

How do you brag about an "all time" record that nobody before 2003 had the same chance to set?

At least when people post a blocks or steals record its understood that it isnt really "all time" because half the leagues all time players didnt have them counted. You dudes will post these playoff totals and act like a Jerry West, or Jordan, or whoever had the same chance to set them with modern formats.

And even worse....ignore that playoff totals are REDUCED by being more effective. You sweep the playoffs doing 38ppg you have 608 points and a ring. You could lose in the conference finals...score 29 a game in 3 7 game series...have 609. For a real life comparison....

Shaq in 2001....487 points. They nearly swept the playoffs while he did 30ppg. James Harden last year loses in the WCF...scores 29 a game...had 486 points.

By the standard we are using here....

01 Shaq did almost exactly the same as 18 Harden despite winning TWO additional rounds AND scoring more per game.

Its just an all around stupid "record". It ignores both changing formats to help the people who will be the leaders forever...and the fact that being more dominant hurts your numbers.

Its a "I dont know what the **** im talking about" thing to make a big deal of. The kind of thing you run in an ESPN segment to fill time. Its not a serious basketball argument if you put even half a brain cell into it.

[Jasper]

These are such joke records if you know the history....luckily most dont so espn gets away with it.

You used to get a first round bye as a top seed....later you played a best of 3 first round...then best of 5. Go back far enough there was no first round at all.

Of course someone who played his whole career with more available playoff games would lead in total points.

They changed the rule to 4 seven game series in like 2003 or 2004. Every playoffs of his career had the extra games in the first round and compared to Kareem entire extra rounds since Kareem had the top seed bye. Kareem led a team to a title with 14 total playoff games. Lebron played 22 and lost last year.

You cant compare totals if you even halfway investigate the reasons for them.
Its a good point , and that is just it , BBall is constantly evolving.
Some may not like it , but there will be a 4 point line some day.

baseball is the same , Brewers never really had a starting pitcher and all most landed in the World Series.

Football , well that is like WWF , so I will not comment on that sport.

Golf - When I started playing 45 years a go , the clubs of today out shine anything of that day...

[Psileas]

1970 playoffs, there was no 1st round. 4 or 5 games less compared to format LeBron has been playing in. Kareem averaged 35.2 ppg.
1971 playoffs, again no 1st round. 4 or 5 games less. Kareem's ppg 26.6.
1972 playoffs, again no 1st round. 4 or 5 games less. 28.7 ppg.
1973 playoffs, again no 1st round. 4 or 5 games less. 22.8 ppg.
1974 playoffs, again no 1st round. 4 or 5 games less. 32.2 ppg.
1977 playoffs, bo3 1st round but top teams let pass by. 4 or 5 games less. 34.6 ppg.
1978 playoffs, bo3 1st round. The Lakers lost by 1-2. At least 2 games less. 27.0 ppg.
1979 playoffs, bo3 1st round. At least 2 games less again. 28.5 ppg.
1980 playoffs, bo3 1st round, top teams let pass by. 4 or 5 games less. 31.9 ppg.
1981 playoffs, bo3 1st round. The Lakers lost by 1-2. At least 2 games less. 26.7 ppg.
1982 playoffs, bo3 1st round, top teams let pass by. 4 or 5 games less. 20.4 ppg.
1983 playoffs, bo3 1st round, top teams let pass by. 4 or 5 games less. 27.1 ppg.
1984 playoffs, finally everyone plays 1st round but bo3. 1 game less. 23.9 ppg.
1985 playoffs, bo3 1st round. 1 game less. 21.9 ppg.
1986 playoffs, bo3 1st round. 1 game less. 25.9 ppg.

Assuming he kept his averages over games didn't occur;
1970; somewhere between 140 (4 games possibility) - 175 (5 games possibility)
1971; somewhere between 106-133
1972; somewhere between 114-143
1973; somewhere between 91-114 114
1974; somewhere between 129-161
1977; somewhere between 138-173
1978; somewhere between 50-60
1979; somewhere between 55-60
1980; somewhere between 125-160
1981; somewhere between 50-55
1982; somewhere between 81-102
1983; somewhere between 108-135
1984; somewhere between 22-28
1985; somewhere between 20-24
1986; somewhere between 24-28

If you take every lesser possible number of games, he could have nearly 1250 points more.

This comment is just blatantly ignore his point.

This, plus the fact that Kareem was already 22-23 in his rookie season, although he was easily playing at an NBA level since practically the mid 60's. Kareem at equally many rounds as today's players easily sits at 7,000+ playoff points. Add the much lower age limit which would give him a few extra seasons and he gets to 8,000+.

[ballinhun8]

RIP pinoit1987

[TheCorporation]

Hmm, so...


6,337 to 5,987: An unbreakable record?

[aj1987]

That whole line of thinking is ****ing stupid for any number of reasons. basketball doesnt work that way. Go look at Lebrons first Cavs runs pace and compare it to the Lakers now. He put up 31ppg on an 89.8 pace. Kobe the same year did 35 on 90. The lowest pace today is 96 and the highest is 104. Doesnt mean Kobe and Lebrons numbers increase at that rate if you put them on todays Hawks.
You think a young LeBron on a shit team wouldn't average more than 31 PPG today? 34 year old LeBron is averaging 27 today. :oldlol:


Its just an all around stupid "record". It ignores both changing formats to help the people who will be the leaders forever...and the fact that being more dominant hurts your numbers.
Again, even if we do it your way and extrapolate (which is ****ing retarded for a number of reasons), Kareem would be like 50 points ahead of LeBron.


Its a "I dont know what the **** im talking about" thing to make a big deal of. The kind of thing you run in an ESPN segment to fill time. Its not a serious basketball argument if you put even half a brain cell into it.
It's fun to rubbish and discount things you don't like, huh?


You didn't even try to have a conversation. You just tried to diminish because you didn't like it. It doesn't suit your boy. Cheers though. Surely. :cheers:

I mean he talked about less number of games Kareem played due to format, and you had the feel to change topic to level of competition and pace because you know what his initial argument was true. ROFL.
What was I trying to diminish? Can you even read? I replied to kblaze, who said and I quote "These are such joke records". Try reading.


RIP pinoit1987
What the **** is a pinoit, bean boy?

[Kblaze8855]

This alone makes the entire premise of valuing playoff totals highly indefensible:



And even worse....ignore that playoff totals are REDUCED by being more effective. You sweep the playoffs doing 38ppg you have 608 points and a ring. You could lose in the conference finals...score 29 a game in 3 7 game series...have 609. For a real life comparison....

Shaq in 2001....487 points. They nearly swept the playoffs while he did 30ppg. James Harden last year loses in the WCF...scores 29 a game...had 486 points.

A brain is all it takes to see why totals arent the way to go. Not even much of a brain.

[aj1987]

This alone makes the entire premise of valuing playoff totals highly indefensible:

A brain is all it takes to see why totals arent the way to go. Not even much of a brain.
Again, for the millionth time:

Again, even if we do it your way and extrapolate (which is ****ing retarded for a number of reasons), Kareem would be like 50 points ahead of LeBron, with Kareem at 29.1 PPG (111 games) and LeBron at 28.9 PPG (239 games). Even if you do it the way Odinn did, Kareem would be at 7012 points with another additional ~45 games played and LeBron's going to pass it in like 3-4 games the next time he's in the PO's. So, even if you give KAJ all those games and points, LeBron's going to retake the record in like 38-40 fewer games played.

Your example of this total penalizing dominant players would make sense if LeBron's wasn't one of THE most dominant players EVER. So yeah, this is an impressive AF record and no matter how much you want to diminish it, it's an amazing record.

[Rico2016]

This alone makes the entire premise of valuing playoff totals highly indefensible:




A brain is all it takes to see why totals arent the way to go. Not even much of a brain.

But we aren't comparing a single season now are we? :hammerhead:

[Rico2016]

Again, for the millionth time:

Again, even if we do it your way and extrapolate (which is ****ing retarded for a number of reasons), Kareem would be like 50 points ahead of LeBron, with Kareem at 29.1 PPG (111 games) and LeBron at 28.9 PPG (239 games). Even if you do it the way Odinn did, Kareem would be at 7012 points with another additional ~45 games played and LeBron's going to pass it in like 3-4 games the next time he's in the PO's. So, even if you give KAJ all those games and points, LeBron's going to retake the record in like 38-40 fewer games played.

Your example of this total penalizing dominant players would make sense if LeBron's wasn't one of THE most dominant players EVER. So yeah, this is an impressive AF record and no matter how much you want to diminish it, it's an amazing record.

All the way, no doubt. The fact that someone is trying to lessen it just shows how impressive it really is

[Kblaze8855]

I swear this is like talking to children....

A player could literally score 30ppg every year while sweeping the playoffs on the way to 10 rings in a row...

And be 7th all time in playoff points.

Losing more games...gives you higher totals. Thats and the format is why Shaq scored less on a 30ppg title run in 2001 than Lebron did on a 25ppg run in 2007.

It has less to do with how well you score...than how long your series go...due both to your team playing well and the rules of your era.


Your example of this total penalizing dominant players would make sense if LeBron's wasn't one of THE most dominant players EVER. So yeah, this is an impressive AF record and no matter how much you want to diminish it, it's an amazing record.


If Lebron were more dominant...hed have LESS points...because he would end series in fewer games.

At this point theres no way this eludes you.

I feel like you and I rarely if ever interact. Thats probably for the best going forward because im gonna have a hard time convincing myself you arent doing a pretty blatant troll job.

[AlternativeAcc.]

I swear this is like talking to children....

A player could literally score 30ppg every year while sweeping the playoffs on the way to 10 rings in a row...

And be 7th all time in playoff points.

Losing more games...gives you higher totals. Thats and the format is why Shaq scored less on a 30ppg title run in 2001 than Lebron did on a 25ppg run in 2007.

It has less to do with how well you score...than how long your series go...due both to your team playing well and the rules of your era.




If Lebron were more dominant...hed have LESS points...because he would end series in fewer games.

At this point theres no way this eludes you.

I feel like you and I rarely if ever interact. Thats probably for the best going forward because im gonna have a hard time convincing myself you arent doing a pretty blatant troll job.
Hey you locked my thread by accident

It was a discussion about the Lakers record without LeBron this year

[And1AllDay]

I swear this is like talking to children....

A player could literally score 30ppg every year while sweeping the playoffs on the way to 10 rings in a row...

And be 7th all time in playoff points.

Losing more games...gives you higher totals. Thats and the format is why Shaq scored less on a 30ppg title run in 2001 than Lebron did on a 25ppg run in 2007.

It has less to do with how well you score...than how long your series go...due both to your team playing well and the rules of your era.




If Lebron were more dominant...hed have LESS points...because he would end series in fewer games.

At this point theres no way this eludes you.

I feel like you and I rarely if ever interact. Thats probably for the best going forward because im gonna have a hard time convincing myself you arent doing a pretty blatant troll job.

So it was a cool record until Mike got passed up?

Look at the top 5, they are arguabley the best playoff scorers for a reason

[knicksman]

Again, for the millionth time:

Again, even if we do it your way and extrapolate (which is ****ing retarded for a number of reasons), Kareem would be like 50 points ahead of LeBron, with Kareem at 29.1 PPG (111 games) and LeBron at 28.9 PPG (239 games). Even if you do it the way Odinn did, Kareem would be at 7012 points with another additional ~45 games played and LeBron's going to pass it in like 3-4 games the next time he's in the PO's. So, even if you give KAJ all those games and points, LeBron's going to retake the record in like 38-40 fewer games played.

Your example of this total penalizing dominant players would make sense if LeBron's wasn't one of THE most dominant players EVER. So yeah, this is an impressive AF record and no matter how much you want to diminish it, it's an amazing record.

No wonder youre a bron stan and a statnerd AJ. This record is impressive AF? LOL this just proves that bron stans have low standards. We dont even give a fcuk about RS totals how much more for playoff totals where everyone doesnt have same amount of games played. LOL

As kblaze have said. Youre born in 1987 but youre still a child. Grow up you dumb statnerd

[Odinn]

Sshhh.

In the playoffs, Tony Parker scored more than Bird, Magic, Olajuwon, Nowitzki, Wade, Havlicek, Pippen, Chamberlain, Baylor, Erving, Durant.

It's just that TP is soo good. His playoffs ppg is by far the worst but what can you do sometimes... I mean Magic has similar ppg with nearly two and a half times apg. But how can you not recognize TP among them ffs.

[TheCorporation]

Sshhh.

In the playoffs, Tony Parker scored more than Bird, Magic, Olajuwon, Nowitzki, Wade, Havlicek, Pippen, Chamberlain, Baylor, Erving, Durant.

It's just that TP is soo good. His playoffs ppg is by far the worst but what can you do sometimes... I mean Magic has similar ppg with nearly two and a half times apg. But how can you not recognize TP among them ffs.

Yeah, we're talking top 5 scorers. Want to see the list?

Bron
MJ
Kareem
Kobe
Shaq

Tell me those arent the five best playoff scorers ever?

[TheCorporation]

Every single Jordan stan after they stomached this:

http://i63.tinypic.com/wlufsx.gif

:lol :lol

[Odinn]

Yeah, we're talking top 5 scorers. Want to see the list?

Bron
MJ
Kareem
Kobe
Shaq

Tell me those arent the five best playoff scorers ever?
I'd argue that Hakeem should be among them and he's 1.5k away from Shaq.
This thread proves that playoffs totals aren't a good measure, it's very flawed and like everything, it needs context.

[aj1987]

I swear this is like talking to children....

A player could literally score 30ppg every year while sweeping the playoffs on the way to 10 rings in a row...

And be 7th all time in playoff points.

Losing more games...gives you higher totals. Thats and the format is why Shaq scored less on a 30ppg title run in 2001 than Lebron did on a 25ppg run in 2007.

It has less to do with how well you score...than how long your series go...due both to your team playing well and the rules of your era.
That's why I did PPG and also added all the extra games and points at those averages to KAJ. SMFH. It's like I'm arguing with kids.

I also did Odinn's numbers and even if you give KAJ all those games, he will end up falling short of LeBron without question.

Let me repost that for you, since you obviously didn't read it.

Again, even if we do it your way and extrapolate (which is ****ing retarded for a number of reasons), Kareem would be like 50 points ahead of LeBron, with Kareem at 29.1 PPG (111 games) and LeBron at 28.9 PPG (239 games). Even if you do it the way Odinn did, Kareem would be at 7012 points with another additional ~45 games played and LeBron's going to pass it in like 3-4 games the next time he's in the PO's. So, even if you give KAJ all those games and points, LeBron's going to retake the record in like 38-40 fewer games played.


If Lebron were more dominant...hed have LESS points...because he would end series in fewer games.

At this point theres no way this eludes you.
Quit acting like LeBron's averaging 28 PPG and playing 30 games to get his totals. Dude averaged 34 PPG last season in the PO's at 34. The only person in the history of the sport to do it at that age or in their 15th season. The year before that? dude averaged 32.8 PPG. Again, the only person in the history of the sport to do it at age 33 or in their 14th season (AFAIK).

I'm not saying LeBron is more dominant than MJ (although pretty close), but there really isn't a player outside MJ who's more dominant than LeBron. If they were, they would at least be remotely close to what LeBron was doing at 33/34.


I feel like you and I rarely if ever interact. Thats probably for the best going forward because im gonna have a hard time convincing myself you arent doing a pretty blatant troll job.
I never quote you because I usually agree with you. :confusedshrug:

Oh, I do remember contributing to your three plays a day thread.

[Kblaze8855]

The problem here is clear. Im a basketball fan and you are a Lebron fan seeing this through a Lebron tinted lens. It doesnt matter who the player is...playoff totals arent rational to judge a player by. I dont know who would have the record if all of history had the same rules....I just know it wouldnt be Lebron. Jerry West went to the same number of finals as Lebron and has a higher playoff ppg. Who knows what Elgin averages if he got a cupcake first round team when his team was the top seed. he averaged 45ppg in 62 vs the team he would have played had they not been given a first round bye.

No way to know how any of it goes and the extrapolation isnt "my way"I didnt say it to begin with) but its common sense to know the format makes a drastic difference.

When some people in the discussion have a possible max of 14 games in the playoffs and some have a max of 28.....going by totals in the end is just indefensible.

If we are deciding who the best fisherman is....I get up to 28 trips to the lake....you are capped at 14 and eventually raised to 21...

In the end...we compare fish...and I have more than you...

You keeping quiet on the format?

This has nothing to do with Lebron James, or Kareem, or West, or Robert Pack or Jared from Subway. Its not about point...or blocks...or threes made.

This is about common sense. No matter the stat...no matter the player....

All time totals dont mean shit when everyone all time didnt play the same format.

Throw Lebron out.

Think basketball. This is me 7 years ago on the subject of Kobe about to pass Larry Bird in playoff assists:



Reading topics like this on playoff totals I wonder how many people are aware of the first round bye the top seed used to get and how the first round went from best of 3 to best of 7...

Greatness at one time made your playoff totals worse not better because it got you a first round bye and even if you didnt get the bye you could knock the other team out in 2 games. Added to that...there used to be less rounds period.


Bill Russell went to 12 finals an played less playoff games than Sam Perkins.


It has absolutely nothing to do with Lebron and everything to do with common sense. Side note...that topic was made with Kobe 22 shy of Bird after the 2012 playoffs. But he never played another playoff game so he didnt pass him. Which makes this response to me amusing:


- Funny you used Bird....(didn't seee that one coming) ....even if he played with the same format he wouldn't be close to Kobe.

They didnt see that next 4 years coming....

Anyway...

All this is.....ESPN posting more bullshit that takes advantage of the public not having knowledge of how these things come to be.

Its "These people dont know enough to call us out" nonsense.

The very notion of an all time playoff ____ list when all the "all time" players before 2003 had less games and sometimes rounds is just deceptive. Not to me. But it is to people who dont know the subject matter. And that is exactly its purpose.

It gets more talk to just say ____ is #1 all time without context. Often they flat out fabricate records by adding the "Since ____" asterisk. Like when Durant had the longest ___ streak since like....1982 or whenever Moses or Gervin really had the record....which was itself only the record since Wilt.

Whatever it is....its never a record record. Its a "If we dont count all the people better" record. This isnt a record record either. Its a "If we pretend guys didnt have fewer games and series till recently" record.

If you could ignore Lebron being the subject im sure you could see it.

[TheCorporation]

I'd argue that Hakeem should be among them and he's 1.5k away from Shaq.
This thread proves that playoffs totals aren't a good measure, it's very flawed and like everything, it needs context.

No.

Hakeem over who? He has 8x 1st round exits...Yikes

[Duncan21formvp]

I swear this is like talking to children....

A player could literally score 30ppg every year while sweeping the playoffs on the way to 10 rings in a row...

And be 7th all time in playoff points.

Losing more games...gives you higher totals. Thats and the format is why Shaq scored less on a 30ppg title run in 2001 than Lebron did on a 25ppg run in 2007.

It has less to do with how well you score...than how long your series go...due both to your team playing well and the rules of your era.




If Lebron were more dominant...hed have LESS points...because he would end series in fewer games.

At this point theres no way this eludes you.

I feel like you and I rarely if ever interact. Thats probably for the best going forward because im gonna have a hard time convincing myself you arent doing a pretty blatant troll job.

And considering Lebron has been down in a series at least 3-2 every year he is always playing a lot of games even when he should be dominating the team.

[TheCorporation]

And considering Lebron has been down in a series at least 3-2 every year he is always playing a lot of games even when he should be dominating the team.

Yeah that's what happens when you arent facing Jeff Hornacek every year 😂😂 :lol

[Duncan21formvp]

Yeah that's what happens when you arent facing Jeff Hornacek every year 😂😂 :lol
Well I was down 3-1 to Jeff Hornecek and Lebron couldn't beat me.

Hell Jeff Hornecek beat Hakeem/Barkley/Drexler, Myself/Robinson, Shaq/Kobe/Van Exel, Eddie Jones

While Lebron lost to Dwight and Rafer Alston.:oldlol:
and then Jason Terry:oldlol:

[Phoenix]

Well I was down 3-1 to Jeff Hornecek and Lebron couldn't beat me.

Hell Jeff Hornecek beat Hakeem/Barkley/Drexler, Myself/Robinson, Shaq/Kobe/Van Exel, Eddie Jones

While Lebron lost to Dwight and Rafer Alston.:oldlol:
and then Jason Terry:oldlol:


:eek:

[aj1987]

The problem here is clear. Im a basketball fan and you are a Lebron fan seeing this through a Lebron tinted lens.
Problem is, you're Grandpa Simpson from the news article of him yelling at the clouds. Also, you're stuck on that opinion of yours and you will not budge, no matter how much evidence there is. You're literally ignoring the most important points of my post and just posting some random crap with terrible examples and hence, this:


Think basketball. This is me 7 years ago on the subject of Kobe about to pass Larry Bird in playoff assists:

Yeah, I'm not comparing a player like freaking Jamal Sampson to Kareem. It's freaking LeBron James.

Even if Kobe was to pass him, no one would take that record seriously, because:

#1 - Kobe averages like 4.4 APG in the PO's.

#2 - Kobe played like 60 more games in the PO's than Bird.


playoff totals arent rational to judge a player by.
Not if the Player gets like 7,000 points at a 15 PPG average, but when the player gets 7,000 at nearly 29 PPG, then yeah, it's a pretty decent stat to use to judge him.


I dont know who would have the record if all of history had the same rules....I just know it wouldnt be Lebron. Jerry West went to the same number of finals as Lebron and has a higher playoff ppg. Who knows what Elgin averages if he got a cupcake first round team when his team was the top seed. he averaged 45ppg in 62 vs the team he would have played had they not been given a first round bye.
Man, I never knew that you were such a massive LeBron hater.

LeBron at 18/19 was putting up 21 points a night. There isn't a player who did that in the history of the sport, and AFAIK, there's no one even remotely close. Before you bring up rules and the other crap, this was in '04, before all the rule changes. How about his highest ever scoring average in a PO series? 39 PPG against the #1 defense and 59 win Magic. Then, there's the FACT that LeBron has averaged around 33 PPG on 50% over the last 4 Finals against the Warriors, who aren't exactly a "cupcake" team. Even in '16, LeBron's best series was against the Warriors and not the first round. Same story during the '15 season as well. Yet, you're out here acting like LeBron's padding 40 points a game in the first rounds and going down to like 20 points a game in the later rounds.

BTW, Elgin and West played in a shit era, so not really sure how their stats would fare today.


If you could ignore Lebron being the subject im sure you could see it.
Yes, Kareem has the All-Time RS scoring record and he one of the GOAT scorers the game has ever seen. Literally no argument from me. You don't see anyone going "but but...he played a shit ton of games! that's the only reason why he has the record!".

[Kblaze8855]

Because only one of the players in contention with him played a different number of max games. Everyone from the mid 60s on had the same length regular season. He just played more of them. Lebron...had a LONGER PLAYOFFS so of course nobody rational compares totals from when the playoffs had less rounds and less games to win a round when they added them.

When a player puts up 41ppg and loses in the same round of the playoffs in the same number of games but scores less than someone who averaged 19......you know what?

**** it. This isnt sinking in. And I know why....

This is all I really needed to read:



Man, I never knew that you were such a massive LeBron hater.

Every one of you irrational childish fans on either side of the Lebron thing either thinks I hate him....or hes my favorite player. I say the exact same thing for for word to you....Im a Lebron hater....I say it to Stalker or one of these others who oppose you...im in love with him.

The problem is clearly you people letting Lebron drive you to the point of madness with your bias.

I really have to stop talking to you guys on either side....

Common sense means nothing to someone who decides whats true based only on how it reflects on a single player. Haters....fans....when it comes to Lebron you are all the same.

Truth is nothing to you people.

[aj1987]

Because only one of the players in contention with him played a different number of max games. Everyone from the mid 60s on had the same length regular season. He just played more of them. Lebron...had a LONGER PLAYOFFS so of course nobody rational compares totals from when the playoffs had less rounds and less games to win a round when they added them.

When a player puts up 41ppg and loses in the same round of the playoffs in the same number of games but scores less than someone who averaged 19......you know what?

**** it. This isnt sinking in. And I know why....

This is all I really needed to read:
Is that the only thing you read in my posts? You're like 3ball lite right now. How do you miss every single point I'm trying to make and go back to " but he played fewer games", when I CLEARLY addressed that?

I'll try it again, for the millionth time:

Again, even if we do it your way and extrapolate (which is ****ing retarded for a number of reasons), Kareem would be like 50 points ahead of LeBron, with Kareem at 29.1 PPG (111 games) and LeBron at 28.9 PPG (239 games). Even if you do it the way Odinn did, Kareem would be at 7012 points with another additional ~45 games played and LeBron's going to pass it in like 3-4 games the next time he's in the PO's. So, even if you give KAJ all those games and points, LeBron's going to retake the record in like 38-40 fewer games played.


The problem is clearly you people letting Lebron drive you to the point of madness with your bias.
What bias? I'm not calling him the GOAT and never have (outside a couple of posts responding to trolls). I'm not calling the GOAT scorer and NEVER have. I've called out LeBron when he played like shit. I'm not one of those idiots who absolves him of his massive choke in '11 and the sort.



Truth is nothing to you people.
Truth does mean a lot, and the truth is LeBron has scored the most points in NBA history in the PO's and it's not particularly close. Truth and facts. Don't see how you can even dispute that.

[Kblaze8855]

Is that the only thing you read in my posts? You're like 3ball lite right now. How do you miss every single point I'm trying to make and go back to " but he played fewer games", when I CLEARLY addressed that?

I'll try it again, for the millionth time:

You think it is about one person. And all you say is about one person. It is not about Lebron. Its not about Kareem. As I said I dont know who would have it if the format were the same for all of history.

The issue is....the very concept of counting totals with different formats to accumulate them.


What bias?

........



Truth does mean a lot, and the truth is LeBron has scored the most points in NBA history in the PO's and it's not particularly close. Truth and facts. Don't see how you can even dispute that.

The truth is that only players after 2003 had the format all of Lebrons playoffs were played under so nobody before that should be expected to accumulate the same totals making any "all time" list rather pointless. If the NBA expands in 50 years to the point they need an extra round of the playoffs the scoring leaders in the playoffs will eventually be only the players with an extra round.

It will be true they are the leaders.

It will also be ****ing stupid to compare them by totals to players who played less rounds. This is clear. And it brings us back to:



The problem is clearly you people letting Lebron drive you to the point of madness with your bias.

Which is the only reason it needs explaining to an adult.

[Odinn]

Why are you still trying to talk some sense to this idiot.
He won't get it and he'll stay an idiot. Why bother further...

[aj1987]

You think it is about one person. And all you say is about one person. It is not about Lebron. Its not about Kareem. As I said I dont know who would have it if the format were the same for all of history.

The issue is....the very concept of counting totals with different formats to accumulate them.
........

The truth is that only players after 2003 had the format all of Lebrons playoffs were played under so nobody before that should be expected to accumulate the same totals making any "all time" list rather pointless. If the NBA expands in 50 years to the point they need an extra round of the playoffs the scoring leaders in the playoffs will eventually be only the players with an extra round.

It will be true they are the leaders.

It will also be ****ing stupid to compare them by totals to players who played less rounds. This is clear. And it brings us back to:

Which is the only reason it needs explaining to an adult.
As I expected. You literally ignored everything I posted and completely went on an irrelevant tangent. Let me try numbering my points.

1. LeBron has among the highest scoring average in PO history (even if you ignore totals).

2. You keep bringing up cupcake team acting like KAJ was only facing behemoths, while conveniently ignoring the fact that LeBron has averaged 33 PPG against the Warriors in 4 straight Finals (not really a cupcake team, are they?).

3. Missed game. Give Kareem all those games and the scoring average (the dumbass above me did that) and Kareem will still only end up with like 50 points more than LeBron with 35-40 more games played.

4. I haven't been comparing players using totals. Just pointing out how asinine it is to rubbish this record, considering the FACT that LeBron has it while averaging 29 PPG.

5. We're not talking about a player who's averaging 20 PPG and played 350 games to get to 7,000 points.


Why are you still trying to talk some sense to this idiot.
He won't get it and he'll stay an idiot. Why bother further...

Coming from a mouth breathing autistic turd like yourself, that's ironic. Hold the L and move on, moron. The adults are talking.

[Kblaze8855]

Why are you still trying to talk some sense to this idiot.
He won't get it and he'll stay an idiot. Why bother further...


The reason is in a post I just made in another topic:



The bad posters here get hand pops not real discussion. You might till im sure the message isnt being understood. Once I know youre not a thinker or a rational fan...just a troll...I might say anything.

Im not yet sure what he is. We dont interact enough. I see the name often but its always in some stupid Lebron argument I dont have the patience to read anymore. When I do take a good look it seems hes on a Lebron...thing. Which is feeling more and more like the case.

Once im sure ill likely never waste my time again.

I feel like he and I may have had a discussion long ago that left me with the impression hes more reasonable than this so I try to explain it as simply as possible in the hopes he can see past the Lebron issue and just into.....the underlying logical problems this presents. But it does feel like hes not going to....

He may be too far gone into these endless Lebron bullshit arguments to come back to normal basketball discussion and see things outside their Lebron ramifications.

[tpols]

why would you argue with apu lmao

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

Career totals need to be put in context.

They have their place.

Where they become a joke? When comparing someone who couldn't play more games even if they wanted to (ie. league rules) with another player who never had that issue.

[aj1987]

The reason is in a post I just made in another topic:

Im not yet sure what he is. We dont interact enough. I see the name often but its always in some stupid Lebron argument I dont have the patience to read anymore. When I do take a good look it seems hes on a Lebron...thing. Which is feeling more and more like the case.

Once im sure ill likely never waste my time again.

I feel like he and I may have had a discussion long ago that left me with the impression hes more reasonable than this so I try to explain it as simply as possible in the hopes he can see past the Lebron issue and just into.....the underlying logical problems this presents. But it does feel like hes not going to....

He may be too far gone into these endless Lebron bullshit arguments to come back to normal basketball discussion and see things outside their Lebron ramifications.
I really can't believe that you're throwing a temper tantrum this big because I proved you wrong. I mean, I tried. I tried reposting, I tried explaining it better, I tried breaking it down into individual points, etc..

Sigh. I'll try one more time.

Even if you Kareem all those points at those scoring averages for the games he missed, he'd still end up with only 50 more points than LeBron with ~35-40 MORE games played. Just read that ONE sentence.

Also, since I know for a fact that you'll see this post, can you please clean up this thread?

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=13615482&postcount=75

Thanks.


why would you argue with apu lmao

Come on, dude, you really want to go down the race route with you being black? :facepalm

[And1AllDay]

why would you argue with apu lmao

Oh cool another racists pig what a great person you are I bet your white mother is so proud

Edit: waht this dude is black whoa what

[Kblaze8855]

I really can't believe that you're throwing a temper tantrum this big because I proved you wrong. I mean, I tried. I tried reposting, I tried explaining it better, I tried breaking it down into individual points, etc..

Sigh. I'll try one more time.

Even if you Kareem all those points at those scoring averages for the games he missed, he'd still end up with only 50 more points than LeBron with ~35-40 MORE games played. Just read that ONE sentence.


Even if my issue were Lebron vs Kareem...you telling me Kareem would be ahead(but narrowly) is not proving me wrong. But the issue isnt Lebron vs Kareem and this is where ive learned what you are.

The player fanatics...3ball and jordan...Kenneth and Kobe...apparently you and Lebron....

They arent able to step back and see an argument for what it is on a basic level...because they only see arguments for how they reflect on the player they are obsessed with. You call me a Lebron hater for things ive said about Kobe....and Jordan...and anyone any time this came up.

Its not about Lebron in any way. Its about Shaq and Harden scoring the same in the playoffs when one won the title on a higher scoring average and the other lost in the conference finals. Its about Jerry West scoring less in a playoff run than Rashard Lewis when they both lost in the same number of games in the finals but West scored 41ppg and Lewis 19.

Its about every single player having different rules until 2003.

Its about how many 5 game series thousands of people played that nobody to come in after 03 ever did. Its about the Lakers losing a 3 game series by a single shot in the 80s when these days....when Lebron goes down 2-1 in the first round like vs the Pacers he has 4 more games....while the Lakers went home and dont play 18-20 more games. Its about George gervin going down 0-2 vs the Celtics and the series is OVER. Its about Nique losing game 3 to the Bulls and the series is OVER. Its about Moses Malone winning game 2 and the series is OVER. Its about being too dominant to even HAVE a first round. Its about 37 years of there either being no first round or top teams having a first round bye. Its about some players having the playoffs begin on Saturday and be over on Monday.

Its about the entire nature of the playoffs being different.

But once a person is far enough down the rabbit hole in the defense of a single player they cant step back and see the big picture.

It seems you are more Lebron supporter than basketball fan and having noted that...I wont expect you to be rational going forward.

This is about the changing format of the NBA playoffs and how it changes the numbers of everyone not just due to less rounds/games...but because of much easier upsets that wouldnt likely happen in 7 game series(the 41 win Rockets can beat Showtime twice to win a series...im not buying them winning 4 in 7). Everything is geared in favor of late 90s and especially 03 draft and up players coming out ahead on totals. Just how it is.

But you cant get away from it being Lebron...because that appears to be your...thing. At least lately. So lesson learned. I will not attempt to engage you seriously for some time. Im not doing the 3ball thing again where I try over and over for months before I accept the obvious.

Do you. I'll let you be. You're certainly no worse than the other player fanatics(arguably better than some since you dont spam topics). I will leave you in peace to fight about Lebron till you get past this phase. I'll check back with you after hes gone.

[aj1987]

Even if my issue were Lebron vs Kareem...you telling me Kareem would be ahead(but narrowly) is not proving me wrong. But the issue isnt Lebron vs Kareem and this is where ive learned what you are.

The player fanatics...3ball and jordan...Kenneth and Kobe...apparently you and Lebron....

They arent able to step back and see an argument for what it is on a basic level...because they only see arguments for how they reflect on the player they are obsessed with. You call me a Lebron hater for things ive said about Kobe....and Jordan...and anyone any time this came up.

Its not about Lebron in any way. Its about Shaq and Harden scoring the same in the playoffs when one won the title on a higher scoring average and the other lost in the conference finals. Its about Jerry West scoring less in a playoff run than Rashard Lewis when they both lost in the same number of games in the finals but West scored 41ppg and Lewis 19.

Its about every single player having different rules until 2003.

Its about how many 5 game series thousands of people played that nobody to come in after 03 ever did. Its about the Lakers losing a 3 game series by a single shot in the 80s when these days....when Lebron goes down 2-1 in the first round like vs the Pacers he has 4 more games....while the Lakers went home and dont play 18-20 more games. Its about George gervin going down 0-2 vs the Celtics and the series is OVER. Its about Nique losing game 3 to the Bulls and the series is OVER. Its about Moses Malone winning game 2 and the series is OVER. Its about being too dominant to even HAVE a first round. Its about 37 years of there either being no first round or top teams having a first round bye. Its about some players having the playoffs begin on Saturday and be over on Monday.

Its about the entire nature of the playoffs being different.

But once a person is far enough down the rabbit hole in the defense of a single player they cant step back and see the big picture.

It seems you are more Lebron supporter than basketball fan and having noted that...I wont expect you to be rational going forward.

This is about the changing format of the NBA playoffs and how it changes the numbers of everyone not just due to less rounds/games...but because of much easier upsets that wouldnt likely happen in 7 game series(the 41 win Rockets can beat Showtime twice to win a series...im not buying them winning 4 in 7). Everything is geared in favor of late 90s and especially 03 draft and up players coming out ahead on totals. Just how it is.

But you cant get away from it being Lebron...because that appears to be your...thing. At least lately. So lesson learned. I will not attempt to engage you seriously for some time. Im not doing the 3ball thing again where I try over and over for months before I accept the obvious.

Do you. I'll let you be. You're certainly no worse than the other player fanatics(arguably better than some since you dont spam topics). I will leave you in peace to fight about Lebron till you get past this phase. I'll check back with you after hes gone.
Please take a deep breath, go back and try to actually read my post.

[The Iron Fist]

Please take a deep breath, go back and try to actually read my post.
You cried about people not liking lebrons records.


How much do you like the record where lebron gives up the most finals mvps?

[Shaquille O'Neal]

The problem here is clear. Im a basketball fan and you are a Lebron fan seeing this through a Lebron tinted lens. It doesnt matter who the player is...playoff totals arent rational to judge a player by. I dont know who would have the record if all of history had the same rules....I just know it wouldnt be Lebron. Jerry West went to the same number of finals as Lebron and has a higher playoff ppg. Who knows what Elgin averages if he got a cupcake first round team when his team was the top seed. he averaged 45ppg in 62 vs the team he would have played had they not been given a first round bye.

No way to know how any of it goes and the extrapolation isnt "my way"I didnt say it to begin with) but its common sense to know the format makes a drastic difference.

When some people in the discussion have a possible max of 14 games in the playoffs and some have a max of 28.....going by totals in the end is just indefensible.

If we are deciding who the best fisherman is....I get up to 28 trips to the lake....you are capped at 14 and eventually raised to 21...

In the end...we compare fish...and I have more than you...

You keeping quiet on the format?

This has nothing to do with Lebron James, or Kareem, or West, or Robert Pack or Jared from Subway. Its not about point...or blocks...or threes made.

This is about common sense. No matter the stat...no matter the player....

All time totals dont mean shit when everyone all time didnt play the same format.

Throw Lebron out.

Think basketball. This is me 7 years ago on the subject of Kobe about to pass Larry Bird in playoff assists:





It has absolutely nothing to do with Lebron and everything to do with common sense. Side note...that topic was made with Kobe 22 shy of Bird after the 2012 playoffs. But he never played another playoff game so he didnt pass him. Which makes this response to me amusing:



They didnt see that next 4 years coming....

Anyway...

All this is.....ESPN posting more bullshit that takes advantage of the public not having knowledge of how these things come to be.

Its "These people dont know enough to call us out" nonsense.

The very notion of an all time playoff ____ list when all the "all time" players before 2003 had less games and sometimes rounds is just deceptive. Not to me. But it is to people who dont know the subject matter. And that is exactly its purpose.

It gets more talk to just say ____ is #1 all time without context. Often they flat out fabricate records by adding the "Since ____" asterisk. Like when Durant had the longest ___ streak since like....1982 or whenever Moses or Gervin really had the record....which was itself only the record since Wilt.

Whatever it is....its never a record record. Its a "If we dont count all the people better" record. This isnt a record record either. Its a "If we pretend guys didnt have fewer games and series till recently" record.

If you could ignore Lebron being the subject im sure you could see it.



Excellent post, 100% spot on. Same thing for Babe Ruth, home runs and the # of baseball games and deadball era.


People forget that Babe hit 60 HR's in the standard 154 game season - Roger Maris hit #61 the last game of 162 game season. In the deadball era (pre-1920 or so) some stadiums were LARGER and the biggest key? Balls that ended up FOUL counted as FOUL balls. So if the Babe hit a "fair" HR and it went foul over the fence it was considered a foul. How many HR's would he have had? :bowdown:

[Rico2016]

Jordan was 1-9 before Scottie took over

Yes, I am well aware.

[aj1987]

You cried about people not liking lebrons records.


How much do you like the record where lebron gives up the most finals mvps?
https://pm1.narvii.com/6553/6c9b85426256f8b66bc21ad2c771c94ea901757c_hq.jpg