How come GM's and scouts mainly use eye test but most people on here use stats?

[Bronbron23]

Since forever actual professionals like scouts and GM's have mainly used the eye test to determine the best players. Most fans now days and certainly most of the people on here use stats. If you were to walk in any gym in the world you can quickly tell who the best player is with your own 2 eyes. You would never need stats to tell you that. Why has this generation become so stat crazy?

[warriorfan]

There

[FKAri]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pWgyy_rlmag

ISH = Brad Pitt
GMs/scouts/gutter of society = everyone else.

[warriorfan]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pWgyy_rlmag

ISH = Brad Pitt
GMs/scouts/gutter of society = everyone else.

Sabermetrics works much better with baseball, it

[3ball]

I used eye test when I first started posting to say that lebron was too ball-dominant, which put a lower ceiling on his team's brand of basketball and championship viability

I was laughed off the forums..

Since then, I've been using stats to make the case, such as lebron's pg-style from the forward spot, which gives the team 2 players with a pg-level time of possession (lebron and the actual pg, i.e. kyrie)... so the remaining 3 teammates have less time and assists compared to their play in 1-point guard lineups, which results in low TEAM assist rankings and a lower ball movement brand that struggles on the championship level (3/9.. 1/9 without ray/kyrie shots)

[AirTupac]

You can tell who has never played a lick of basketball.

[FKAri]

[QUOTE=warriorfan]Sabermetrics works much better with baseball, it

[superduper]

This is perhaps the greatest thread in ISH history that will be avoided like the absolute plague.

Nothing but relateable facts.

Good job OP :applause:


If you were to walk in any gym in the world you can quickly tell who the best player is with your own 2 eyes. You would never need stats to tell you that.

Bran stans:
https://media.tenor.com/images/1e425f0991c66cd840f78b389e84f5c9/tenor.gif

[TheCorporation]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pWgyy_rlmag

ISH = Brad Pitt
GMs/scouts/gutter of society = everyone else.

It's over

[superduper]

It's over

So baseball = basketball?

[TheCorporation]

Oh, this thread is actually being serious? Well the quick and obvious answer is that competition is different. You're trying to compare what a guy puts up against a D1 school to a D2 school?

It's like comparing a guy's #s vs Kawhi, Iggy, Draymond, PG13 and then a guy's #s vs Hornacek, Porter, Ehlo, Starks, Russell.

Got it?

[superduper]

Oh, this thread is actually being serious? Well the quick and obvious answer is that competition is different. You're trying to compare what a guy puts up against a D1 school to a D2 school?

It's like comparing a guy's #s vs Kawhi, Iggy, Draymond, PG13 and then a guy's #s vs Hornacek, Porter, Ehlo, Starks, Russell.

Got it?

What? Who TF said that :oldlol:

Bran stans gotta make up shit as usual to maintain their delusional made up fairy tale world.

First thinking Baseball is the same sport as Basketball and now this.

[tontoz]

Since forever actual professionals like scouts and GM's have mainly used the eye test to determine the best players.


Based on what? Do you have any evidence of this or are you talking out of your ass?

I believe most, if not all, front offices now actively embrace analytics.

[ImKobe]

Oh, this thread is actually being serious? Well the quick and obvious answer is that competition is different. You're trying to compare what a guy puts up against a D1 school to a D2 school?

It's like comparing a guy's #s vs Kawhi, Iggy, Draymond, PG13 and then a guy's #s vs Hornacek, Porter, Ehlo, Starks, Russell.

Got it?


What were Lebron's stats against a 35 y.o Bowen, 32 y.o Pierce and JJ Barea?

Do we ignore the defensive rule changes? Or how the scoring in the NBA has completely ballooned since the 90s and early 2000s?

[superduper]

What were Lebron's stats against a 35 y.o Bowen, 32 y.o Pierce and JJ Barea?

Do we ignore the defensive rule changes? Or how the scoring in the NBA has completely ballooned since the 90s and early 2000s?

What was their VORP doe

[Hey Yo]

Since forever actual professionals like scouts and GM's have mainly used the eye test to determine the best players. Most fans now days and certainly most of the people on here use stats. If you were to walk in any gym in the world you can quickly tell who the best player is with your own 2 eyes. You would never need stats to tell you that. Why has this generation become so stat crazy?
quickly tell................ :oldlol:

[knicksman]

because eye test is harder than stats. If its easy its not worth it. And if the only thing you could do is stats then everybody here on ISH could be GMs or scouts.

[Skip_Bayless]

Oh, this thread is actually being serious? Well the quick and obvious answer is that competition is different. You're trying to compare what a guy puts up against a D1 school to a D2 school?

It's like comparing a guy's #s vs Kawhi, Iggy, Draymond, PG13 and then a guy's #s vs Hornacek, Porter, Ehlo, Starks, Russell.

Got it?

Wrong again Simon. You look at what one guy is doing against his comp and look at what the other guy is doing against his comp. They eye test then tells you who is better. LBJ couldn't do shit against Jason Terry and you are mentioning guys who are clearly better than Terry ever was.

[Bronbron23]

Oh, this thread is actually being serious? Well the quick and obvious answer is that competition is different. You're trying to compare what a guy puts up against a D1 school to a D2 school?

It's like comparing a guy's #s vs Kawhi, Iggy, Draymond, PG13 and then a guy's #s vs Hornacek, Porter, Ehlo, Starks, Russell.

Got it?
Nice try. But the warriors are probably the least athletic team ever and they win every year in this crazy tough defensive era lol. Before kd they were even worse. They were by far the least athletic team ever.

And I like how you cherry pick guys that gaurded Jordan. I could do the same.

how do you explain JJ berara and Steph curry shutting down LeBron? For every player that you named that Jordan torched I could name a worse defender that shut LeBron down. You can't win this one.

[Bronbron23]

Based on what? Do you have any evidence of this or are you talking out of your ass?

I believe most, if not all, front offices now actively embrace analytics.
They definitely enbrace analytics but it's secondary. I have friends that are college coaches and scouts. Eye test is still what's up. Analytics are definitely used but it's more to reaffirm what they already believe from what they see. They look at winning too but again eye test is the main measurement

[Bronbron23]

quickly tell................ :oldlol:
It's a forum nerd. I write how a talk casually. What kind of nerd spell checks on a hoops forum:roll:

[tontoz]

They definitely enbrace analytics but it's secondary. I have friends that are college coaches and scouts. Eye test is still what's up. Analytics are definitely used but it's more to reaffirm what they already believe from what they see. They look at winning too but again eye test is the main measurement


We aren't talking about college. This is a NBA forum. There are far more stats available on NBA players, many of which we don't see.

They can actually track how fast a player is running, and how far, during the course of a game. The reason they have all these stats is to use them. When you are paying so much money on players you want as much info as possible before making personnel decisions.

Colleges aren't paying millions in salaries, they are only giving scholarships.

[Spurs m8]

Bron haz kool statz and did a sik flook pass on EPSN hightlites = GOAT

[ronniec]

I am kind of agree of what OP said...

Someone never watched Bird playing and claimed Lebron is a better passer by using career assist average/total.

[Milbuck]

You're kidding yourself if you don't think NBA front offices & scouting departments don't heavily value stats. Now they have far more numbers available to them than the most basic, publicly available stats fans use, but they do value stats. Most of the best teams in the league have entire departments dedicated to stats/analytics.

[ArbitraryWater]

gms and scouts been saying bron is the best since 2010 tho

[NBAGOAT]

on a self deprecating notes our eye tests suck. Coaches rewatch film multiple times, we're watching a game once and trying to remember details months later and 99% of fans dont know shit relatively speaking(myself included). It's also a big time commitment to watch every game of just your favorite team(10 hrs a week roughly), something even pretty big fans dont wanna do.

As Milbuck said however, almost all teams have a heavy emphasis on analytics. Not the WS, PER, BPM, RAPM all in one type stuff that's easy for a fan to just regugitate but like sportsvu stuff like tracking which side of the floor do they score better from or just tracking how far they run and when they get tired. Also, second by second tracking of plays. This is from the Raptors in 2013 http://grantland.com/features/the-toronto-raptors-sportvu-cameras-nba-analytical-revolution/.

If you want someone going with "gut", see someone Ernie Grunfeld who gets routinely laughed at. Also, even experts scouting can be affected by biases as the moneyball clip showed.

[Bronbron23]

You're kidding yourself if you don't think NBA front offices & scouting departments don't heavily value stats. Now they have far more numbers available to them than the most basic, publicly available stats fans use, but they do value stats. Most of the best teams in the league have entire departments dedicated to stats/analytics.
I didn't say they don't value stats. They do. It's just not the most important measurement. They use eye test first and then use stats and analytics after.

R.j Barretts stats arnt the best in college but he's probably gonna go number 1 in the draft. Why do you think that is?

[AirBonner]

You're kidding yourself if you don't think NBA front offices & scouting departments don't heavily value stats. Now they have far more numbers available to them than the most basic, publicly available stats fans use, but they do value stats. Most of the best teams in the league have entire departments dedicated to stats/analytics.
This. Brad Stevens entire coaching career is based on analytics and he

[NBAGOAT]

I didn't say they don't value stats. They do. It's just not the most important measurement. They use eye test first and then use stats and analytics after.

R.j Barretts stats arnt the best in college but he's probably gonna go number 1 in the draft. Why do you think that is?

it's statistical analysis however that shows college stats have small correlation to nba stats so you dont really need to care that much about what stats a guy put up in college

[Milbuck]

I didn't say they don't value stats. They do. It's just not the most important measurement. They use eye test first and then use stats and analytics after.

R.j Barretts stats arnt the best in college but he's probably gonna go number 1 in the draft. Why do you think that is?
Who are all these people who are using stats and stats only? Pretty sure anyone who cares enough about basketball to be talking basketball and using stats...cares enough to actually watch it lol.

Anyways not sure why you think Barrett is going #1? Zion has been the clear #1 guy for some time now.

[Ben Simmons 25]

Sabermetrics works much better with baseball, it’s not nearly as a dynamic sport compared to basketball. It’s basically and individual sport disguised as a team sport. Analytics still has it’s place in Basketball and Football but it’s not as useful as it is to Baseball.

I agree with you wholeheartedly... for now.

If you wait 30 years, AI will be able to analyze everything to depths that we can’t currently truly have an appreciation for...

But then again... what’ll be the point of competing at that point lol...

[warriorfan]

I agree with you wholeheartedly... for now.

If you wait 30 years, AI will be able to analyze everything to depths that we can’t currently truly have an appreciation for...

But then again... what’ll be the point of competing at that point lol...

Maybe, maybe not. Basketball is one of those things with so many interacting factors that it could surpass some of the most sophisticated of AI’s capabilities. AI can’t quantify personality types and chemistry. AI can tell you a certain player should mathematically be the most compatible with another and it not pan out as planned. On the opposite end there are players that will overachieve with eachother that could not be predicted by any computer no matter how intelligent. There is a nearly unquantifiable human aspect that computers may very well never be able to figure out.

[Ben Simmons 25]

Maybe, maybe not. Basketball is one of those things with so many interacting factors that it could surpass some of the most sophisticated of AI’s capabilities. AI can’t quantify personality types and chemistry. AI can tell you a certain player should mathematically be the most compatible with another and it not pan out as planned. On the opposite end there are players that will overachieve with eachother that could not be predicted by any computer no matter how intelligent. There is a nearly unquantifiable human aspect that computers may very well never be able to figure out.

Not yet... the internet has made technology development exponential. The birth of AI is going to compound significantly on top of that. Things are going to pick up faster for humanity than we are able to comprehend currently.

I foresee a future in which body language, facial expressions, play style, diet, skill, genetics etc... are all able to be quantified. I mean, depths such as these in particular may or may not be in our lifetimes... so it might not matter to us... but eventually, it/we will get there. Stretch the timeline out long enough? No doubt about it. I'd be absolutely shocked if all of this hadn't come to a complete fruition within 100 years. Stretch it out over 1000? Uh? Yeah... lol.

[BigShotBob]

Most people on here don't know basketball so...