Lebron beat the West 3 times (3 Finals win), so he'd make 3 Finals in west for career

[3ball]

That's why winning the ring matters, since it validates your Finals appearance (you would've made it regardless of conference)

[Dray n Klay]

What would his supporting cast be if he was in the West

[3ball]

What would his supporting cast be if he was in the West
Why would his hand-selected casts be different?

Lebron already had the best or 2nd best cast from 2011-2018, and his teams were the league favorite to win the ring in 2011 and 2015 (pre-season and heading into playoffs)

[egokiller]

That's why winning the ring matters, since it validates your Finals appearance (you would've made it regardless of conference)

No, he wouldn't even make it 3 times. 2 of those finals required all-time miracle shots by Kyrie and Allen, so the chance that they make them again is very low. He's making 1 finals in the west.

[Dray n Klay]

Why would his hand-selected casts be different?

Lebron already had the best or 2nd best cast from 2011-2018, and his teams were the league favorite to win the ring in 2011 and 2015 (pre-season and heading into playoffs)
2018? :roll:


And he has 0 all stars in 2016


And he had 0 all nba teammates in 2014, 2015, 2016, 2017, 2018



He had league average supporting casts since 2011

[3ball]

No, he wouldn't even make it 3 times. 2 of those finals required all-time miracle shots by Kyrie and Allen, so the chance that they make them again is very low. He's making 1 finals in the west.


Excellent point

He would've lost those series without those shots.. and Dray probably doesn't get suspended

So 1 Finals out west!!.. :roll: .. LeFraud.. a fraud has been perpetrated on the public.. screw the Russian collusion.. this is more important.. :lol

[tpols]

that's a stretch to assume since he'd have to beat 2 contenders to make it out of the west, where as he only needed to beat 1 in the finals... which was done by a hair. What are the chances you win by a hair twice in a row?

[Dray n Klay]

that's a stretch to assume since he'd have to beat 2 contenders to make it out of the west, where as he only needed to beat 1 in the finals... which was done by a hair. What are the chances you win by a hair twice in a row?

Like how the West only had 2 50-win teams in 2018 yet the East had 4? :roll:


Literally twice the competition in the East :eek:

[DMAVS41]

There is no doubt that he'd have less finals appearances.

Also, I don't get people asking "what would his supporting cast be"?

Lebron already had elite help from 11 through 18 overall...it isn't like he was lacking in that area since he left the Cavs the first time.

Doesn't make him a lesser player, but it should point out the obvious flaws of judging so heavily on winning.

Just what conference a team or player is in makes such a big difference in the results.

[Dray n Klay]

There is no doubt that he'd have less finals appearances.

Also, I don't get people asking "what would his supporting cast be"?

Lebron already had elite help from 11 through 18 overall...it isn't like he was lacking in that area since he left the Cavs the first time.

Doesn't make him a lesser player, but it should point out the obvious flaws of judging so heavily on winning.

Just what conference a team or player is in makes such a big difference in the results.

2018?? :roll:

How do the Cavs look now?


2014?? :roll:

How did the Heat look after



How did Wade and Bosh look in the playoffs in 2013??


Kyrie was injured in 2015


He had to face a 73 win team in 2016




If you do a year by year breakdown, you’ll see his help relative to the competition has been shit most of the time (outside of 2012)

[3ball]

He had league average supporting casts since 2011


http://i65.tinypic.com/2qn5u3b.jpg

[DMAVS41]

2018?? :roll:

How do the Cavs look now?


2014?? :roll:

How did the Heat look after



How did Wade and Bosh look in the playoffs in 2013??


Kyrie was injured in 2015


He had to face a 73 win team in 2016




If you do a year by year breakdown, you’ll see his help relative to the competition has been shit most of the time (outside of 2012)

I said overall. Not every year.

Yea, welcome to reality....try being a fan of a franchise like the Mavericks, which...has been better than most for the last 2 decades.

Dirk's help doesn't touch Lebron's overall.

Why would Lebron just all of a sudden get to play with 2 all-star level players every year and more for much of his prime?

I mean, I'm glad he did because watching him waste away on the Cavs the first part of his career sucked, but the norm is not multiple star players.

And. no, his help was not shit. I agree that it tends to be over-rated by the haters, but he had plenty of help from 11 through 18 to win multiple titles...just like he did.

And he would have won multiple titles playing in the West, but he's not making 8 finals...we know that for sure.

[Dray n Klay]

I said overall. Not every year.

Yea, welcome to reality....try being a fan of a franchise like the Mavericks, which...has been better than most for the last 2 decades.

Dirk's help doesn't touch Lebron's overall.

Why would Lebron just all of a sudden get to play with 2 all-star level players every year and more for much of his prime?

I mean, I'm glad he did because watching him waste away on the Cavs the first part of his career sucked, but the norm is not multiple star players.

First, we need to clarify your definition of multiple all stars.


Are you going by all-star voting, in that case LeBron only had 1 all star teammate in 2015 and 2018, and no all star teammate in 2016



If you

[3ball]

First, we need to clarify your definition of multiple all stars.


Are you going by all-star voting, in that case LeBron only had 1 all star teammate in 2015 and 2018, and no all star teammate in 2016



If you’re going by actual on court playoff production, LeBron played with 1 all star in 2011, 2012, 0 all stars in 2013 and 2014 and 2018, and one all star in 2016 and 2017



How are you defining “multiple all stars”? Either way you define it LeBron hasn’t had that for the majority of seasons from 2011-2018
Kyrie and Love are perennial all-stars that lebron had on his team

Stop being dumb

And if you want to get technical, lebron lost with 1 all-star in 05, 09, and 18'... And he lost with 2 all-stars in 11, 14, 17... That's pathetic

[DMAVS41]

First, we need to clarify your definition of multiple all stars.


Are you going by all-star voting, in that case LeBron only had 1 all star teammate in 2015 and 2018, and no all star teammate in 2016



If you’re going by actual on court playoff production, LeBron played with 1 all star in 2011, 2012, 0 all stars in 2013 and 2014 and 2018, and one all star in 2016 and 2017



How are you defining “multiple all stars”? Either way you define it LeBron hasn’t had that for the majority of seasons from 2011-2018


I'm defining it the way everyone would. Wade / Bosh / Kyrie / Love were all all-star level players...and, at times, some of them would be considered all-nba players.

Again, I've posted a lot about how Wade and Bosh declined in 13 and 14...and the injuries / circumstances at times on the Cavs...so I completely agree with those points.

However though, like I said, welcome to reality. That 8 year stretch would still be considered very good help...way better than most stars get for the heart of their prime....so expecting more just isn't realistic.

Too many people think Shaq/Kobe and the Warriors are the norm...and it just isn't.

Talk to KG or Dirk or Anthony Davis...multiple year stretches where Jason Terry is your best teammate...etc.

[Dray n Klay]

Kyrie and Love are perennial all-stars that lebron had on his team

Stop being dumb

And if you want to get technical, lebron lost with 1 all-star in 05, 09, and 18'... And he lost with 2 all-stars in 11, 14, 17... That's pathetic

And he won with 0 all stars in 2016

Otoh Jordan lost with all stars in 1990 and 1995

Yikes

[3ball]

14' Wade was younger and fresher than 98' Pippen

Wade crushed the 14' ECF while pippen was horrible in 98' ECF, and Wade made all-star in 15' and 16', while pippen was done after 98'

Lebron has no excuse for 14', especially since MJ also won the 98' ring with kukoc as the playoff starter, not 36-year old rodman

No comparison - 98' mj had a more broken-down cast then 14' lebron
.

[Dray n Klay]

I'm defining it the way everyone would. Wade / Bosh / Kyrie / Love were all all-star level players...and, at times, some of them would be considered all-nba players.

Again, I've posted a lot about how Wade and Bosh declined in 13 and 14...and the injuries / circumstances at times on the Cavs...so I completely agree with those points.

However though, like I said, welcome to reality. That 8 year stretch would still be considered very good help...way better than most stars get for the heart of their prime....so expecting more just isn't realistic.

Too many people think Shaq/Kobe and the Warriors are the norm...and it just isn't.

Talk to KG or Dirk or Anthony Davis...multiple year stretches where Jason Terry is your best teammate...etc.

Break down lebrons help in the playoffs in 2013, 2014, 2015, and 2018

[3ball]

Break down lebrons help in the playoffs in 2013, 2014, 2015, and 2018



The 15' Cavs were favored over the Warriors in the latest odds before the playoffs began (so before kyrie went down):



April 18, 2015

Golden State starts its playoff journey with future odds of 5-to-2 to win the NBA Championship at the Westgate Las Vegas Superbook, trailing the Cleveland Cavaliers at 9-to-5.

https://m.lasvegassun.com/blogs/talking-points/2015/apr/18/nba-playoffs-las-vegas-betting-odds-preview-warrio/


2013: The Heat were favored over the Spurs

2018: Lebron's teams always had an extra all-star over their East competition, so 2018 was more even after Kyrie left.. they still had the best 2nd option in the East, and equal or better supporting talent than any East team

2014: The 14' Heat were much younger and fresher than the 98' bulls


Hope that helps.

[TheCorporation]

2018? :roll:


And he has 0 all stars in 2016


And he had 0 all nba teammates in 2014, 2015, 2016, 2017, 2018



He had league average supporting casts since 2011

The ether of all ethers.

And let's be real here 3ball, which team does LeBron not beat in the Finals that Jordan beat? :roll: :roll:

LBJ decimates all of them with the supporting cast Jordan had.

[AlternativeAcc.]

Lebron wins in 2014 and 2015 If his team was healthy

Hes been the most unlucky star in history when it comes to injuries and shit supporting casts.

Hes been the best post season performer every year since 2011 which is factual and the longest streak in NBA history.

:bowdown:

[ImKobe]

Lebron had top 3 payrolls in the league for half of his career, it doesn't matter which Conf.

[TheCorporation]

Break down lebrons help in the playoffs in 2013, 2014, 2015, and 2018

He will avoid this like the black plague because he knows better :no:

And don't get us started on the COMPETITION as well.

10 ppg Hornacek vs All time greatest 73-win Warriors
Terry Porter vs KD + Russ + Harden + Ibaka Thunder
6'2 Payton vs Dynasty Spurs Kawhi + Duncan + Ginobli/Parker + Pop

This thread is toast

[3ball]

Lebron wins in 2014 if his team was healthy

:
29-year old Bosh was the starter in the 14' playoffs, whereas 36-year old rodman wasn't the starter for the 98' run (MJ won the 98' ring with kukoc)

Also, pippen was horrible in 98' ECF and was never an all-star after 98, while the younger Wade was lights out in 14' ecf and made 3 more all-star games after 14'

So if MJ won in 98' with an old, banged up squad, then lebron fails the goat standard by not winning in 14'
.

[DMAVS41]

Break down lebrons help in the playoffs in 2013, 2014, 2015, and 2018

What do you mean...break it down?

He had enough help to win in 2013...and he won...albeit with a reduced Wade / Bosh.

And the rest of the years he had enough help to win the East, but realistically not enough to win the title.

I'm not sure what is so confusing...he had great help overall for 8 years...

He just didn't have all-time elite help like KD on the Warriors or Shaq/Kobe or the 80's Celtics and Lakers.

It isn't a knock on Lebron....it is just reality. He had some really good teams...teams better than most stars get...and he performed amazingly well overall.

But, if he had the same help and the Thunder were moved to the East and they switched spots, for example, he's just not making the finals more than 3...maybe 4 times.

:confusedshrug:

[TheCorporation]

Dilemma time

https://i.postimg.cc/y8YXwmHj/1550957224619.jpg

:eek: Uh oh :eek:

[egokiller]

Excellent point

He would've lost those series without those shots.. and Dray probably doesn't get suspended

So 1 Finals out west!!.. :roll: .. LeFraud.. a fraud has been perpetrated on the public.. screw the Russian collusion.. this is more important.. :lol

The thing of it all is that they weren't just shots. They are ranked in the top 5 greatest shots of all time and LeBron has nothing to do with the play. That's literally what it took to keep LeChoke from being 1-9. Now we compare this to a man who actually understood what it took to win in the finals, MJ, and we see that MJ was either involved or making the clutch finals shots:

1. 1991 NBA Finals Game 3 game-tyer
2. 1997 NBA Finals Game 1 game-winner over Russell
3. 1997 NBA Finals Game 5 go-ahead 3-pointer
4. 1997 NBA Finals Game 6 series-winning assist to Kerr
5. 1998 NBA Finals Game 1 tying-assist to Longley to send the Game to OT.
6. 1998 NBA Finals Game 6 series winning steal and shot

LeBron has been one of the most lucky stars in history when it comes to others making the big shots for him when it matters most in the finals. At least the other stars were able to make their own finals clutch shots also.

[3ball]

Seems appropriate to bump the thread now that we see his 28/8/8 is worth lottery in the West

[And1AllDay]

2018? :roll:


And he has 0 all stars in 2016


And he had 0 all nba teammates in 2014, 2015, 2016, 2017, 2018



He had league average supporting casts since 2011

wrekt

[And1AllDay]

[QUOTE=Dray n Klay]First, we need to clarify your definition of multiple all stars.


Are you going by all-star voting, in that case LeBron only had 1 all star teammate in 2015 and 2018, and no all star teammate in 2016



If you

[And1AllDay]

He will avoid this like the black plague because he knows better :no:

And don't get us started on the COMPETITION as well.

10 ppg Hornacek vs All time greatest 73-win Warriors
Terry Porter vs KD + Russ + Harden + Ibaka Thunder
6'2 Payton vs Dynasty Spurs Kawhi + Duncan + Ginobli/Parker + Pop

This thread is toast

:eek: