Lebron is not quite a top 10. Why do we compare him to MJ?

[Walk on Water]

It's kinda odd. Plus they play different positions. I don't get why we compare rebounds for Lebron and MJ. Would we compare rebounds for Shaq and Lebron? No because they play different positions. The one thing Lebron has going for him though is amount of games played. Because he has played so many games, his stats are going to continue to pile up.

You cannot put Lebron above these players:

Jordan
Kareem
Chamberlain
Robertson
Russell
Bird
Magic
Shaq
Duncan
Kobe

He doesn't make teammates better. He has muscles, high stats, and when you see him with the ball a lot, you get the impression that he's doing so much. Partly an illusion.

[SpaceJam]

You cannot put Lebron above these players:

Jordan
Kareem
Chamberlain
Robertson
Russell
Bird
Magic
Shaq
Duncan
Kobe

You just did bro

[Spurs m8]

It is weird for sure

[305Baller]

I'd put him over Oscar for sure. Kobe has a case with rings, Chamberlain with records...everyone else here has more rings, correct?

[Mr.GOAT2408]

He's Wilt status at best and that's being generous

He's been hyped up as being as good as those guys when he's just not at their level. The East was pretty decent from 08 - 10 and we saw how LeBron looked when the pressure came

Now he's out in the West which is a bloodbath and it's not looking good.

Fringe top 15 at best, again being very generous. I will have no issue if people think he's barely top 20

[nayte]

Lebram is top 10. The problem is people are tired of Jordan or kareem being no 1. They want a new star. And I can understand. No point living in the past. The game is progressive. The NBA needs a new goat. Its business really not player accomplishment.can't be living in the past. It doesn't really help the NBA. My imo of course

[305Baller]

Lebram is top 10. The problem is people are tired of Jordan or kareem being no 1. They want a new star. And I can understand. No point living in the past. The game is progressive. The NBA needs a new goat. Its business really not player accomplishment.can't be living in the past. It doesn't really help the NBA. My imo of course

im sure espn and other businesses share your sentiment

[nayte]

im sure espn and other businesses share your sentiment

In what aspect.

[Spurs m8]

Lebram is top 10. The problem is people are tired of Jordan or kareem being no 1. They want a new star. And I can understand. No point living in the past. The game is progressive. The NBA needs a new goat. Its business really not player accomplishment.can't be living in the past. It doesn't really help the NBA. My imo of course

what the fvck are you spouting on about? :roll: :roll: :roll:

[nayte]

what the fvck are you spouting on about? :roll: :roll: :roll:

It's not rocket science. It's business. The league needs lebrom as the goat. I didn't say he is.
Far from it. I'm saying the league doesn't need people to live in the past.

[Spurs m8]

It's not rocket science. It's business. The league needs lebrom as the goat. I didn't say he is.
Far from it. I'm saying the league doesn't need people to live in the past.

Maybe im old fashioned but a GOAT is a GOAT.

I know they've tried to manufacture Bron as one but as the real fans of the sport knew, its all fake, he isn't close and he's been exposed now.

[nayte]

Maybe im old fashioned but a GOAT is a GOAT.

I know they've tried to manufacture Bron as one but as the real fans of the sport knew, its all fake, he isn't close and he's been exposed now.

Eh old fashioned or stupid. I have pretty much said the league is making LeBron the goat to move on. Not sure where we are disagreeing here

[Kblaze8855]

I suspect all 10 of those players would have Lebron in their own top 10. Im not sure who each would kick out to make room....but they would put him in there.

[nayte]

I suspect all 10 of those players would have Lebron in their own top 10. Im not sure who each would kick out to make room....but they would put him in there.

Do u think it helps media wise and NBA wise to have a new goat. Not offering any opinion on that but for league media value

[pauk]

It's kinda odd. Plus they play different positions. I don't get why we compare rebounds for Lebron and MJ. Would we compare rebounds for Shaq and Lebron? No because they play different positions. The one thing Lebron has going for him though is amount of games played. Because he has played so many games, his stats are going to continue to pile up.

You cannot put Lebron above these players:

Jordan
Kareem
Chamberlain
Robertson
Russell
Bird
Magic
Shaq
Duncan
Kobe

He doesn't make teammates better. He has muscles, high stats, and when you see him with the ball a lot, you get the impression that he's doing so much. Partly an illusion.

Its funny how haters try to reverse the fact that Lebron made his TEAMs better than anybody in NBA history.... factually ALL Lebrons teams have won dramatically more WITH him and dramatically LESS without him, it was immediate and brutal.... it has happened all the time, to all the teams and for sooooooooo long its impossible to ignore...

For this to happen it means the player exploits whatever player he has around him better than anybody... that he surely made his teammates jobs far more easier...

[Kblaze8855]

Do u think it helps media wise and NBA wise to have a new goat. Not offering any opinion on that but for league media value


I think its just the nature of sports fans. Whoever is the guy at the moment is always gonna convince some people hes the best ever because the people of the past arent fresh in public memory.

There are arguments Mike Trout is the best baseball player. You see people call Mayweather the GOAT. Brady in football except when Rodgers has one of those games with 4 "That shouldnt be possible...." throws then him being the GOAT is talked about for a little while. Given time every "goat" gets replaced if only due to the belief that newer is always better because of some advance in the sport that is usually just a change...not an improvement.

Whatever is recent will always get that talk. When Shaq was going back to back to back...there were talks he was the GOAT. I think he was listed #1 in a book or two.

Thats how it goes.

[PickernRoller]

I've always said he's a Top 15 talent, never Top 10. Too many deserving players over him.

As for why the media markets him as such: simple answer and the right answer will always be money. Mouths need to be fed, checks need to be deposited. Simple as that.

[nayte]

I think its just the nature of sports fans. Whoever is the guy at the moment is always gonna convince some people hes the best ever because the people of the past arent fresh in public memory.

There are arguments Mike Trout is the best baseball player. You see people call Mayweather the GOAT. Brady in football except when Rodgers has one of those games with 4 "That shouldnt be possible...." throws then him being the GOAT is talked about for a little while. Given time every "goat" gets replaced if only due to the belief that newer is always better because of some advance in the sport that is usually just a change...not an improvement.

Whatever is recent will always get that talk. When Shaq was going back to back to back...there were talks he was the GOAT. I think he was listed #1 in a book or two.

Thats how it goes.
Yep well we agree on all that. Thanks for your imput. Too many want to decide goat on one series. Without thinking about what it takes to be goat. No matter what sport

[PP34Deuce]

I've always said he's a Top 15 talent, never Top 10. Too many deserving players over him.

As for why the media markets him as such: simple answer and the right answer will always be money. Mouths need to be fed, checks need to be deposited. Simple as that.


Top 15 talent? I'd argue hes more naturally talented than MJ kobe magic etc... I think guys like skip dislike him because he should shockingly be even better than hes been. I've said I think lebrons impact is top 5-8. He should absolutely be top 2 and right with Jordan.

Shaq should also be in the top 5 instead of top 10.

[FKAri]

Top 15 talent? I'd argue hes more naturally talented than MJ kobe magic etc... I think guys like skip dislike him because he should shockingly be even better than hes been. I've said I think lebrons impact is top 5-8. He should absolutely be top 2 and right with Jordan.

Shaq should also be in the top 5 instead of top 10.
He's not more naturally talented than MJ. At least not for the way the game is played today. He's too bulky to take advantage of the advantages in the face up game. And the league does not reward him for the strength advantages his bulkiness offers him. I actually think MJ fits in today's league better than he did in his since today's league was molded to allow for a "next MJ" (we're still waiting btw).

[G0ATbe]

Because he's top 5.

[Wally450]

I'm sure OP had to have his mom stop him from putting the gun to his head after the 2016 Finals. :lol

[90sgoat]

LeMalone is a Karl Malone level talent.

Top 20.

[sdot_thadon]

Lebram is top 10. The problem is people are tired of Jordan or kareem being no 1. They want a new star. And I can understand. No point living in the past. The game is progressive. The NBA needs a new goat. Its business really not player accomplishment.can't be living in the past. It doesn't really help the NBA. My imo of course
sneaky good point. The thing that makes it such an incendiary topic is Lebron has actually done his part to legitimize the claims. Fans have been slowly losing their their shit over the last decade as they've watched their guy get marginalized( most 00's small forwards), surpassed (kobe stans), or their idol becoming too close for comfort (Mj stans) and while we as fans kept moving goalposts Lebron kept pulling it off. For the record, gun to my head Mj is the goat but I see 3 to 4 others Lebron included that have solid cases for goat i wouldn't argue. Basketball doesn't have a clearcut goat, just generational disconnects that make fans think so.

[FKAri]

sneaky good point. The thing that makes it such an incendiary topic is Lebron has actually done his part to legitimize the claims. Fans have been slowly losing their their shit over the last decade as they've watched their guy get marginalized( most 00's small forwards), surpassed (kobe stans), or their idol becoming too close for comfort (Mj stans) and while we as fans kept moving goalposts Lebron kept pulling it off. For the record, gun to my head Mj is the goat but I see 3 to 4 others Lebron included that have solid cases for goat i wouldn't argue. Basketball doesn't have a clearcut goat, just generational disconnects that make fans think so.
MJ is about as close to a clear cut GOAT as you can get in a sport as competitive as basketball. I watched him play and hate the mythology and legend around him but he was far ahead of his contemporaries. Yes, even Bird and Magic. The only people in his realm are Wilt, Russell, and Kareem. You can even make a case for Shaq if you twist around your definitions. I don't think Lebron has any argument BUT the compelling thing about him is that he's the closest non-big to MJ, at least imo.

[PP34Deuce]

He's not more naturally talented than MJ. At least not for the way the game is played today. He's too bulky to take advantage of the advantages in the face up game. And the league does not reward him for the strength advantages his bulkiness offers him. I actually think MJ fits in today's league better than he did in his since today's league was molded to allow for a "next MJ" (we're still waiting btw).


That's opinion. He's too bulky now, but Lebron James in general is a naturally more talented player than most ATG's. Potential doesn't mean shit if you don't reach it but there's a reason he was a phenom in HS.

Game comes too easy for him and like Shaq, he's a guy that could be even better than he was yet he still is a top 7 ATG.

[FKAri]

That's opinion. He's too bulky now, but Lebron James in general is a naturally more talented player than most ATG's. Potential doesn't mean shit if you don't reach it but there's a reason he was a phenom in HS.

Game comes too easy for him and like Shaq, he's a guy that could be even better than he was yet he still is a top 7 ATG.
I don't see how Lebron could've been THAT much better with his tools. Unless you are of the opinion that anyone athletic enough can just "get elite" at whatever skill they choose to work on in the gym. There's guys who work on their shot all their life and not get as good at it as Curry was at 19.

Lebron does not have a natural instinct for scoring. His natural skills are ball control and vision. The ball control alone, is a big part of his passing, ball handling, as well as his soft touch around the basket. His intelligence is also a big part of his game in finding openings in the defense. He's a very hard worker and has improved a lot on his game over the years but there' only so far he can go with what he has. Basketball is a stupidly easy sport skill wise compared to something like soccer but that doesn't mean that just because you're athletic you can just become all-time great at anything by just hitting the gym.