How did Kobe Build from 2005 Lottery to Back2back Champion?

[Big164]

Without aquiring a single top 10 player? Its really Amazing what he did, I dont think its ever been done to be honest!

https://peerdclothing.files.wordpress.com/2010/06/kobe-rings.jpg

[305Baller]

Gasol was legit.

[Big164]

Gasol was legit.
Was he really tho?

Before Kobe and after Kobe he was nothing more than a poor man

[305Baller]

[QUOTE=Big164]Was he really tho?

Before Kobe and after Kobe he was nothing more than a poor man

[chains5000]

Gasol was twice the player Kevin Love is.
For all the hate Gasol gets for those first round loses... how many times did Love get to the playoffs before Cleveland?

As for the question, the Gasol trade looked like a huge steal back then.
The Lakers didn't have the most talented team in the league but it was a well built team. Only big flaw was the PG, but the system and players made up for it.

[305Baller]

Gasol was twice the player Kevin Love is.
For all the hate Gasol gets for those first round loses... how many times did Love get to the playoffs before Cleveland?

As for the question, the Gasol trade looked like a huge steal back then.
The Lakers didn't have the most talented team in the league but it was a well built team. Only big flaw was the PG, but the system and players made up for it.

Fisher played good D and was clutch so the pG spot was fine. Twin towers had their moments too

[chains5000]

Fisher played good D and was clutch so the pG spot was fine. Twin towers had their moments too
Fisher was alright, but not a 1st/2nd rate PG. It's just with kobe, gasol and odom around a great PG wasn't really needed.

[3ball]

The Jordan/GOAT style fits well with any player-type (on-ball or off), while getting the most out of teammates, and therefore needs the least help

Only Kobe/MJ won multiple rings with 1 all-star teammate, except Shaq (who had Kobe), and hakeem (when MJ was out of the league)

[kennethgriffen]

kobe somehow did this with these guys...

https://i.ibb.co/RYdYSSg/Screen-Shot-2019-02-26-at-10-30-12-AM.png






TWICE

[Doranku]

Gasol was twice the player Kevin Love is.


:oldlol: This shit needs to stop.

[ArbitraryWater]

kobe somehow did this with these guys...

https://i.ibb.co/RYdYSSg/Screen-Shot-2019-02-26-at-10-30-12-AM.png






TWICE


show me his competition

[kennethgriffen]

The Jordan/GOAT style fits well with any player-type (on-ball or off), while getting the most out of teammates, and therefore needs the least help

Only Kobe/MJ won multiple rings with 1 all-star teammate, except Shaq (who had Kobe), and hakeem (when MJ was out of the league)


but even you gotta admit pippen is top 25-30 while gasol is top 75-80 all time


only walton, barry, DJ, hakeem won with lesser all time wingmen

and all of them only did it once

[ArbitraryWater]

:oldlol: This shit needs to stop.

he was, no? thrice, even

[FKAri]

he was, no? thrice, even
We'll call it even at 2.5x

[tpols]

Teamwork. The Lakers with Kobe and pau had significantly better team assist ranks than Kobe-shaq did, which is why they were able to win multiple chips with less talent.

[kennethgriffen]

show me his competition


http://i.cdn.turner.com/nba/nba/2009/images/05/14/0514nuggetsbench608.jpg

https://mk0slamonlinensgt39k.kinstacdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/10/utah_jazz_season_preview.jpg

http://cdn2.sbnation.com/entry_photo_images/126273/d5c889fcb2d45e15cd7f5425afa7d3c8-getty-91022348bb003_houston_rockets_media_day_large.jpg

http://i.cdn.turner.com/nba/nba/2008/news/features/art_garcia/11/05/110508westinsider/rockets_inline.jpg

http://thenolookpass.com/2010Playoffs/thunda.jpg

http://cdn3.sbnation.com/imported_assets/384196/alg_phoenix_suns.jpg

..

[Doranku]

show me his competition

Just look up the teams that LeBron lost to

[kennethgriffen]

oh yeah and


https://i.ibb.co/d6SyQ64/Screen-Shot-2019-02-26-at-10-42-30-AM.png

http://www3.pictures.zimbio.com/gi/Ray+Allen+Tony+Allen+NBA+Finals+Game+4+Los+cfROt05 FY_8l.jpg

[ArbitraryWater]

http://i.cdn.turner.com/nba/nba/2009/images/05/14/0514nuggetsbench608.jpg

https://mk0slamonlinensgt39k.kinstacdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/10/utah_jazz_season_preview.jpg

http://cdn2.sbnation.com/entry_photo_images/126273/d5c889fcb2d45e15cd7f5425afa7d3c8-getty-91022348bb003_houston_rockets_media_day_large.jpg

http://i.cdn.turner.com/nba/nba/2008/news/features/art_garcia/11/05/110508westinsider/rockets_inline.jpg

http://thenolookpass.com/2010Playoffs/thunda.jpg

http://cdn3.sbnation.com/imported_assets/384196/alg_phoenix_suns.jpg

..



i see mediocre teams everywhere

truly nothing like the west is now


rockets didnt even have ariza u bum lol

[ArbitraryWater]

oh yeah and


https://i.ibb.co/d6SyQ64/Screen-Shot-2019-02-26-at-10-42-30-AM.png

http://www3.pictures.zimbio.com/gi/Ray+Allen+Tony+Allen+NBA+Finals+Game+4+Los+cfROt05 FY_8l.jpg

only good team, and they needed refs+c's brainfart to win, so, proves my point

[3ball]

but even you gotta admit pippen is top 25-30 while gasol is top 75-80 all time


only walton, barry, DJ, hakeem won with lesser all time wingmen

and all of them only did it once
You make a good point, but it's somewhat nullified (but not completely) by pippen being a little overrated

Your point takes another hit by considering depth.. for example - in the 93' Finals, MJ outscored barkley by 16, and pippen outscored KJ by 4.. the #3 thru 9 spots were all won easily by the suns (necessitating mj's record scoring).. the Lakers weren't as top heavy

So there's a reason mj needed much better stats than kobe - MJ had a little less help overall.. maybe more than a little

But your point is otherwise valid imo, as pippen is ranked much higher than Gasol.. Heck, Kevin Love is ranked higher than Gasol - higher HOF probability, and easily superior peak stats

Walton, Barry, DJ, and Dirk won with less help indeed.. but only once.. only Kobe/MJ did won multiple rings with 1 all-star teammate

[kennethgriffen]

i see mediocre teams everywhere

truly nothing like the west is now


rockets didnt even have ariza u bum lol


compared to today maybe they look mediocre compared to the warriors

but back in 2009 and 2010 those teams were stacked... especially compared to kobes 3rd/4th/5th options

[sdot_thadon]

Gasol was legit.
this.

[kennethgriffen]

You make a good point, but it's somewhat nullified (but not completely) by pippen being a little overrated

Your point takes another hit by considering depth.. for example - in the 93' Finals, MJ outscored barkley by 16, and pippen outscored KJ by 4.. the #3 thru 9 spots were all won easily by the suns (necessitating mj's record scoring).. the Lakers weren't as top heavy

So there's a reason mj needed much better stats than kobe - MJ had a little less help overall.. maybe more than a little

But your point is otherwise valid imo, as pippen is ranked much higher than Gasol.. Heck, Kevin Love is ranked higher than Gasol - higher HOF probability, and easily superior peak stats

Walton, Barry, DJ, and Dirk won with less help indeed.. but only once.. only Kobe/MJ did won multiple rings with 1 all-star teammate


the bulls were defensive juggernauts though.. and they had the best sharp shooters in history. a team taylor made for 1 guy taking a shit ton of shots without inhibiting anyones rhythm


kobe had to play decoy/off the ball a lot to get others going cause they were built on offensive chemistry

when kobe would go for 50 in made them worse IMO.. which is why he had way less big games from 2008-2010


jordan could go for 50 and the other bulls wouldn't skip a beat. that explains jordans bigger averages while winning

[3ball]

this.
Like 80 other guys were more legit, so Kobe won multiple rings with the weakest 2nd option to win multiple rings

[3ball]

the bulls were defensive juggernauts though.. and they had the best sharp shooters in history. a team taylor made for 1 guy taking a shit ton of shots without inhibiting anyones rhythm


kobe had to play decoy/off the ball a lot to get others going cause they were built on offensive chemistry

when kobe would go for 50 in made them worse IMO.. which is why he had way less big games from 2008-2010


jordan could go for 50 and the other bulls wouldn't skip a beat. that explains jordans bigger averages while winning
The bulls never had rim protection, while the Lakers had plenty, so that offsets inferior perimeter defense from Kobe compared to MJ, or Odom vs pippen

Also, Pau was superior offensively to pippen, and the Lakers had more offensive help - that's why MJ had to score so much more than Kobe, in addition to being a vastly more efficient scorer (so the bulls benefitted from each additional time that MJ finished a possession; that wasn't always the case for Kobe, who produced less points per possession, ortg)
.

[3ball]

In the end, the goat style (Kobe/MJ), proved to be the easiest to build a multiple-time champion around (only 1 all-star teammate needed)

Their goat scoring versatility fit with any teammate and got the most out of them, thereby needing the least help.. :confusedshrug:

It's quite remarkable

[Hey Yo]

[QUOTE=Big164]Was he really tho?

Before Kobe and [B]after Kobe he was nothing more than a poor man

[3ball]

At age 34 (same as Kobe) Pau's first year after LA, he led the league in double-doubles with 54.

Kobe (1st year w/o Pau) played less than half a season and then retired after the following year.
Bosh has higher HOF probability and was better

And was Pau ever top 4 in PER, WS/48, BPM and VORP like Love?

Love approached goat-level stats and was at least on the same level as Gasol.. arguably better

[sdot_thadon]

Like 80 other guys were more legit, so Kobe won multiple rings with the weakest 2nd option to win multiple rings
actually 80 other guys were not, he gets diminished to prop kobe all the time. Remember this rugged west we always applaud kobe for playing in? Pau made the playoffs 3 times in that same great west.....without kobe. Even taking his team to the post season in a year kobe himself didn't (11 games better in the same conference i might add) Pau was being seen as one of the handful of best bigmen in the game at the time LA acquired him. Nobody remembers the outrage over the Lakers getting Gasol for "nothing"? I sure do. Why would pop be up in arms over a guy who isn't even top 80 in the league? Doesn't pass the smell test, never did. :no:

yeah, injuries right?

[Hey Yo]

Bosh has higher HOF probability and was better

And was Pau ever top 4 in PER, WS/48, BPM and VORP like Love?

Love approached goat-level stats and was at least on the same level as Gasol.. arguably better
:roll:


Any ways...... I was referencing Pau AFTER he left LA. Chris "I was held scoreless in game 7 of the Finals" Bosh has nothing to do with this. Get someone else to take your moldy bait.

[3ball]

actually 80 other guys were not, he gets diminished to prop kobe all the time. Remember this rugged west we always applaud kobe for playing in? Pau made the playoffs 3 times in that same great west.....without kobe. Even taking his team to the post season in a year kobe himself didn't (11 games better in the same conference i might add) Pau was being seen as one of the handful of best bigmen in the game at the time LA acquired him. Nobody remembers the outrage over the Lakers getting Gasol for "nothing"? I sure do. Why would pop be up in arms over a guy who isn't even top 80 in the league? Doesn't pass the smell test, never did. :no:

yeah, injuries right?
Okay top 60, or even top 50

Still the weakest 2nd option to win multiple rings

But let's keep it real - it's almost impossible for Pau to be top 50 or top 60... I don't see anyone that he'd go ahead of in the original top 50, let alone today's top 50, which includes Durant, Lebron, Curry, Wade and company

So the original point stands.. top 80.. or thereabouts)

[3ball]

:roll:


Any ways...... I was referencing Pau AFTER he left LA. Chris "I was held scoreless in game 7 of the Finals" Bosh has nothing to do with this. Get someone else to take your moldy bait.
It's a testament to how Kobe elevated Pau, bynum and bigs in general, while lebron always reduced bigs, i.e. Bosh, love, Jamison, shaq

Kobe's goat scoring versatility fit with any teammate and got the most out of them, thereby needing the least help..

Ultimately, the goat style (Kobe/MJ), proved to be the easiest to build a multiple-time champion around (only 1 all-star teammate needed)

It's quite remarkable

[FKAri]

Bosh has higher HOF probability and was better

And was Pau ever top 4 in PER, WS/48, BPM and VORP like Love?

Love approached goat-level stats and was at least on the same level as Gasol.. arguably better
Pau had a higher VORP and BPM than Bosh when looking at their last complete season with their teams before being traded.

But you're right Bosh DOMINATED Pau interms of WS/48 by about 0.003 points

:roll: :roll: :roll:

[ArbitraryWater]

Pau had a higher VORP and BPM than Bosh when looking at their last complete season with their teams before being traded.

But you're right Bosh DOMINATED Pau interms of WS/48 by about 0.003 points

:roll: :roll: :roll:

Lol

[tpols]

Pau never made an all NBA team or won a single playoff game before LA....

He was a stock all star forward who got less votes than Dirk, Duncan, Garnett, amare, bosh, and boozer at his own position.

[sdot_thadon]

Pau never made an all NBA team or won a single playoff game before LA....

He was a stock all star forward who got less votes than Dirk, Duncan, Garnett, amare, bosh, and boozer at his own position.
sure, with the caveat that when the legendary Kobe Bryant and Pau had their own squads in the same seasons (2005-2007) they both finished seasons in the same round(1st rd exits 2 times) and both missed the postseason(once).:biggums:

[tpols]

sure, with the caveat that when the legendary Kobe Bryant and Pau had their own squads in the same seasons (2005-2007) they both finished seasons in the same round(1st rd exits 2 times) and both missed the postseason(once).:biggums:


Kobes team was one shot away from beating a 2 seed while pau's went 0-12, three sweeps. Not to mention those Memphis teams were much better than bryants help and pau produced far less than Kobe did in every respect.

You're really really reaching if you think they're comparable off those sample sizes. Might as well say pau > Kareem since KAJ missed playoffs in his prime while gasol made them.

[superduper]

Anyone who says Fisher played D needs to have their account ban for straight up blatantly lying.

[sdot_thadon]

You're really really reaching if you think they're comparable off those sample sizes. Might as well say pau > Kareem since KAJ missed playoffs in his prime while gasol made them.
you're really reaching if you think that's anywhere near my point. We all know there's 3 things Kobe don't mix well with: passing, context, and advanced stats. That's why everyone gives you guys sarcastic responses yet somehow you guys don't detect it and battle points nobody's making. :applause: kobe stans folks.