Should we at least go back to the minimum wage of 1968?

[jongib369]

In 1968 the minimum wage was $1.60 , or in today's money because of inflation about $11.57. I keep hearing people talk about $15, and I'd be okay with that if it was only for companies like Amazon, Walmart etc. I wouldnt want to hurt small businesses, and it would allow them to compete in some form. But, with that being said I dont want some lazy person skating by with that pay so there would have to be some type of mass firing for a lot of these companies. My grandfather was Vice President and Treasurer of a successful warehouse company called McMaster Carr and gave his employees great pay, and benefits. But you had to be quick witted, and work really hard or you'd get fired fast. Employees were absolutely terrified of him lol. Your workhorse at a Home Depot who is the one making shit actually happen on overnights would be the average guy there if not below. So they only had the best people actually filling jobs. Obviously retail is different, but I'd live to hear your thoughts.

[macmac]

https://www.npr.org/2018/10/02/653597466/amazon-sets-15-minimum-wage-for-u-s-employees-including-temps

Amazon has already set that in place

[Akrazotile]

Germany didnt have a minimum wage until 2015, and had one of the highest qualities of life for decades prior.

They only instituted it once they started bringing in a surplus of cheap labor to water down the cost of hiring. Adding a minimum wage was a facade to assuge the public and make the government

[highwhey]

some of those min. wage laws vary tho. for example: arizona min wage law is 11/hr, but i believe it only applies to large employers. so if you have 5 employees, you can abide by federal minimum wage.

GOP is trying to circumvent this by allowing large employers to pay 7.25 an hour to part time employees under the age of 21. you won

[tpols]

Plato is right on this one. Minimum wage has always been a scam because it gives people a number to settle on without having to think about or negotiate a rate based on relative purchasing power at the given time.

[jongib369]

https://www.npr.org/2018/10/02/653597466/amazon-sets-15-minimum-wage-for-u-s-employees-including-temps

Amazon has already set that in place
Oh wow Iin didn't realize thanks for the heads up. J just threw their name out there since it was the first big company I thought of lol

[Akrazotile]

Plato is right on this one. Minimum wage has always been a scam because it gives people a number to settle on without having to think about or negotiate a rate based on relative purchasing power at the given time.


The only reason it’s been a staple in the US for so long is because weve brought in so many poor immigrants over the last hundred years, if companies still paid them 50 cents an hour all the libs would pretend to give a shit about those people and start virtue signaling like crazy, itd be a bad political look.

European countries (until recently) didnt have to deal with huge immigration numbers and had a totally different labor dynamic. When you dont have desperate immigrants ready to work, citizens end up with better pay.

The big scam to keep the wealthy on top is bringing in “refugees” and adding a minimum wage so idiot voters think their Dem reps care about “everyday people.”

You can explain this a million times to maxfly and bladefd, but they just repeat “minimum wage” on a loop. Rethinking a view goes against their programmming. They can only repeat.

[Akrazotile]

[QUOTE=highwhey]some of those min. wage laws vary tho. for example: arizona min wage law is 11/hr, but i believe it only applies to large employers. so if you have 5 employees, you can abide by federal minimum wage.

GOP is trying to circumvent this by allowing large employers to pay 7.25 an hour to part time employees under the age of 21. you won

[jongib369]

Germany didnt have a minimum wage until 2015, and had one of the highest qualities of life for decades prior.

They only instituted it once they started bringing in a surplus of cheap labor to water down the cost of hiring. Adding a minimum wage was a facade to assuge the public and make the government “appear” concerned with their interests.

It’s Machiavelli 101. Act conservatively while APPEARING liberal. That’s how you fool sheep and keep your power.

That’s what Dems in Congress exist for. To counterbalance “the mean Republicans” with the APPEARANCE of liberalism. Throwing out kumbaya rhetoric and the occasional entitlement crumbs. Libs then feel satisfied when Dems get them a “win,” which is actually far less than they COULD get if they actually had brains and balls to go for things on their own. Something tiny LOOKS more significant after you have a bunch of republican puppets pretending to be trying to block it. Makes dumb liberals like MaxFly and bladefd and tpols think they got something meaningful.

Minimum wage is one of those things. It is not a REAL THING in economics. How many times do I have to explain this? It is a short term illusion, DESIGNED to fool idiots.

Dont be one of those idiots, Jonny.
I dont think you actually read what I said lol. My stance on it is far from what hardcore progressives think

[Akrazotile]

I dont think you actually read what I said lol. My stance on it is far from what hardcore progressives think

Your exact thread title was “Should we at least go back to the minimum wage of 1968?” which you said was 11.60 adjusted for inflation.

It sounds like youre advocating that we “at least go back to the minimum wage of 1968.”

So... if there was a misunderstanding, I dont think the fault is on my end.

[jongib369]

Your exact thread title was “Should we at least go back to the minimum wage of 1968?” which you said was 11.60 adjusted for inflation.

It sounds like youre advocating that we “at least go back to the minimum wage of 1968.”

So... if there was a misunderstanding, I dont think the fault is on my end.
Oooh okay so you think peoples way of life would be just fine in the states on let's say....$3 an hour? You must be a fan of welfare then

[jongib369]

I was also talking only about large businesses so smaller ones have a way of competing. Competition is good no?

[jongib369]

Btw before you reply with negotiating raises, and people working their way up you might want to watch this and consider how many people dont have that much potential

https://youtu.be/9Rxfem5nxoA

[Akrazotile]

Btw before you reply with negotiating raises, and people working their way up you might want to watch this and consider how many people dont have that much potential

https://youtu.be/9Rxfem5nxoA


Dont worry. Youve convinced me.


Edit: Was just teasing with this comment, didnt mean it seiously. My bad if it sounded like a real personal attack.

[jongib369]

You might also want to think about how many jobs are going to be lost in the coming years because of technology/AI. My forklift skills might be completely useless in twenty years when retailers/warehouses have machines to do that for them, like my Grandfathers old company has now. Or something like my buddies Job at FedEx

[jongib369]

Dont worry. Youve convinced me.

:roll: :cheers:

[Akrazotile]

You might also want to think about how many jobs are going to be lost in the coming years because of technology/AI. My forklift skills might be completely useless in twenty years when retailers/warehouses have machines to do that for them, like my Grandfathers old company has now. Or something like my buddies Job at FedEx


So why are we continuing to bring in more people to the Unites States if there’s not gonna be any work for them and theyre just going to take up yet another slice of the safety net pie?


Whatever you wanna say about wages, the immigration issue comes FIRST. Im not saying I know how you feel about immigration, just that however you feel, theres no point talking about wages until that’s fixed. Save the energy to get immigration reform.

If youre not speaking up on immigration, wage rhetoric is hollow. We dont need to talk about wages UNTIL we have a bipartisan US policy that says we are categorically unwilling to admit or accommodate illegals and large numbers of refugees. It’s entirely possible we have a Dem president in 2021 who goes back to the same old establishment labor exploitation under the guise of “tolerance,” and we’re ****ed again. We need an official policy that says “sorry, doors are closed unless youre one of a limited few students or skilled foreign workers.”

That’s it. Without that, wage discussions mean NOTHING.

[jongib369]

So why are we continuing to bring in more people to the Unites States if there’s not gonna be any work for them and theyre just going to take up yet another slice of the safety net pie?


Whatever you wanna say about wages, the immigration issue comes FIRST. Im not saying I know how you feel about immigration, just that however you feel, theres no point talking about wages until that’s fixed. Save the energy to get immigration reform.

If youre not speaking up on immigration, wage rhetoric is hollow. We dont need to talk about wages UNTIL we have a bipartisan US policy that says we are categorically unwilling to admit or accommodate illegals and large numbers of refugees. It’s entirely possible we have a Dem president in 2021 who goes back to the same old establishment labor exploitation under the guise of “tolerance,” and we’re ****ed again. We need an official policy that says “sorry, doors are closed unless youre one of a limited few students or skilled foreign workers.”

That’s it. Without that, wage discussions mean NOTHING.
That's definitely a problem that needs to be addressed, I haven't dug too much into the topic but from the surface level knowledge of it that I have I like Australias merit/skill based immigration system. But instead of just sending the ones who don't meet it back, possibly offering them to Canada. If it happens to be a family with kids I'd have a hard time just sending them back to some shitty area they're trying to get out of... The optics of it would be hilarious, hasn't Justin lectured us on how to deal with immigration? If so it's cute since they dont have to deal with that issue. So make them and see how hypocritical they are :lol

[highwhey]

This is the exact kind of everyday buro the 1% use their Dem politicians to con.

Like shootin fish in a barrel.
let's totally ignore the fact that a good amount of maga supporters, especially in the southwest US, employ illegals.

publicly support the deportation of illegal immigrants while privately subsidizing illegal immigration, the MAGA way https://i.postimg.cc/FzBP7kCT/Wfaek0-Vc-Ky.png

[jongib369]

let's totally ignore the fact that a good amount of maga supporters, especially in the southwest US, employ illegals.

publicly support the deportation of illegal immigrants while privately subsidizing illegal immigration, the MAGA way https://i.postimg.cc/FzBP7kCT/Wfaek0-Vc-Ky.png
Getting a DNA test soonish to see if my Melungeon ancestory makes me Native American/hispanic, or black.

If I'm black I got this video ready
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=WFY2kJ96jNY

If I'm Hispqnic/Native American
https://youtu.be/x47NYUbtYb0

[DaHeezy]

It all depends on what the rest of the country is doing and cost of living.

Vancouver has a minimum wage of $12.65 despite the fact that average cost of living in the greater Vancouver area requires a 6 figure family income. (Only city in all of North America I believe)
Not to mention high cost of auto insurance (gov owned), gas tax, liquor tax, energy tax (there are taxes on pretty much any luxury resource)

Such a disproportion for an extremely Liberal minded city. I guess it's supposed to accelerate motivation for people to achieve higher levels of employment. But here in BC I say an increase is definitely necessary

[Akrazotile]

let's totally ignore the fact that a good amount of maga supporters, especially in the southwest US, employ illegals.

publicly support the deportation of illegal immigrants while privately subsidizing illegal immigration, the MAGA way https://i.postimg.cc/FzBP7kCT/Wfaek0-Vc-Ky.png


And of course they shouldnt, but realistically if all their competition is doing it without consequence, they wont put themselves at a disadvantage.

Which is why both sides need to press the issue to get it done across the board, and make sure NOBODY can do it wothout steep consequences.

But issues like that are too difficult for most, because it’s not clear who the good guy and bad guys are. Are illegals the bad guys? People opposing illegal immigration? It’s too unclear for the average dummy and theyre scared to wind up on a publicly disapproved side of the issue.

Gotta stick to easy targets like “ORANGE MAN”. You know for sure you can call him the bad guy and youll be socially approved of. Everything else is too complicated!

Average IQs gotta stick with safe and simple.

[DukeDelonte13]

Low minimum wage = lots more people the government has to support.

Eliminating minimum wage standards is just a gimme for large corporations to pay their employees jack sh*t knowing they'll qualify for food stamps, medicaid, etc.

Stop subsidizing McDonald's and Walmart profit margins with taxpayer money.

[highwhey]

[QUOTE=Akrazotile]And of course they shouldnt, but realistically if all their competition is doing it without consequence, they wont put themselves at a disadvantage.

Which is why both sides need to press the issue to get it done across the board, and make sure NOBODY can do it wothout steep consequences.

But issues like that are too difficult for most, because it

[Akrazotile]

it's certainly not black and white, and i wouldn't blame trump for it because it's an issue that has existed since far before he came on the scene.

i think the government should explore some sort of amnesty program that an illegal would buy into (they pay a certain amount for a work visa), only for non-criminal illegals though. so an illegal with a rap sheet should get the boot and kicked out of the country.

but a program like that would encourage illegals to come out of the woods and the government can reap the benefit of being paid money. also, they can begin collecting tax on those "under the table" wages.

something has to be done, either way. cuz the several industries are affected by it. construction is a prime example. wayyy too many dudes undercutting competition by using undocumented squads for the labor. sucks if you're a legitimate outfit trying to acquire more work, bc the competition is brutal in the southwest with a huge illegal labor workforce.


I agree. I dont think there is any significant opposition from conservatives to allowing illegal immigrants whove been here for some time to remain here and becoming citizens.

But it cant be open season to just show up here going forward. It

[highwhey]

But it cant be open season to just show up here going forward. It’s not fair to Americans who are trying to establish a stable economy and social environment. It’s actually completely antithetical to the things all these Bernie Bros CLAIM they want to achieve. They just dont have te guts to be more vocal about it bc theyre scared to be called racists.that's plenty fair, i think a lot of illegals might bite as well bc they won't have to live in fear any longer. both sides win with this type of compromise.


he vast majority of Americans aren’t indigenous, we all came from immigrant ancestors. Doesnt matter if it was 1 generation ago or 20. Everyone who is an American today hs a right to say “We have to put Americans first on American soil” without guilt. Doesnt mean you hate others or youre a traitor to your own. Our ancestors LEFT other places to become Americans. This is what Im sure most of them would WANT us to do. Be Americans. Proud, strong, HUNG Americans. Not timid cucks bullied by emotional media narratives.

It’s fine to not like Donald Trump as a person, or as a president, or whatever. It’s fine to disagree with the wall. But people who ONLY yap about that stuff and NEVER push for sensible alternatives are just posturing posers and phonies. Copping out on some easy, no risk, not gonna offend anyone shit. No balls to get important things done.

Cant have it. Wont have it.
i don't disagree. a lot of people are uninformed, and that's a real problem. but people can be more reasonable than the media portrays them to be, just gotta be level headed if you want others to see your point. too many people let their emotions get the best of them (including me lol).

[NumberSix]

let's totally ignore the fact that a good amount of maga supporters, especially in the southwest US, employ illegals.

publicly support the deportation of illegal immigrants while privately subsidizing illegal immigration, the MAGA way https://i.postimg.cc/FzBP7kCT/Wfaek0-Vc-Ky.png
Yeah, it’s almost like, some business owner in the Southwest doesn’t actually control who’s allowed in the country.

I’d fully support a mandatory verification system, but all Dems and half of Republicans will block it.

[NumberSix]

I agree. I dont think there is any significant opposition from conservatives to allowing illegal immigrants whove been here for some time to remain here and becoming citizens.
There definitely is.

[Akrazotile]

There definitely is.


IF major steps are taken to deter illegal immigration going forward?

Most conservatives I hear weigh in say theyre not as concerned with deporting 11 million people as they are with stopping the problem going forward.

I dont doubt there are pockets of people who expect zero compromise on the issue, but it doesnt seem to be a prevalent view from what Ive heard. Certainly doesnt feel like a

[Norcaliblunt]

If you are a real capitalist, and not a commie statist punk then just like with wages you can’t support the government artificially controlling immigration and the labor market. There must be open borders and a free market of labor.

[TheMan]

[QUOTE=Akrazotile]Germany didnt have a minimum wage until 2015, and had one of the highest qualities of life for decades prior.

They only instituted it once they started bringing in a surplus of cheap labor to water down the cost of hiring. Adding a minimum wage was a facade to assuge the public and make the government

[Hawker]

[QUOTE=Norcaliblunt]If you are a real capitalist, and not a commie statist punk then just like with wages you can

[Nanners]

Plato is right on this one. Minimum wage has always been a scam because it gives people a number to settle on without having to think about or negotiate a rate based on relative purchasing power at the given time.

Plato also said the income of the highest paid member of society should never be more than 5x that of the lowest paid.

[Nanners]

Vancouver has a minimum wage of $12.65 despite the fact that average cost of living in the greater Vancouver area requires a 6 figure family income. (Only city in all of North America I believe)


I know real estate is expensive in vancouver, but there is no way in hell that cost of living in the couve is higher than cities like NY and SF