Lavine is better than Harden

[PeroAntic]

Don't let stats fool you. Lavine is much more versatile explosive and aesthetic.

[chains5000]

Is Lavine an MVP candidate now?

[PeroAntic]

Is Lavine an MVP candidate now?
How is that relevant? He's not a statpadder on a good team, so no hes not an MVP candidate. Neither is Harden with Giannis and PG around.

Lavine is still more versatile scorer, more explosive and about a thousand times more fun to watch.

[chains5000]

How is that relevant? He's not a statpadder on a good team, so no hes not an MVP candidate. Neither is Harden with Giannis and PG around.

Lavine is still more versatile scorer, more explosive and about a thousand times more fun to watch.
You really think a statpadder would already be an MVP and a lock for top 3 in votes this season?

[dbugz]

Dude has tunnel vision of the ring. Give him the ball and all he see is the ring.

Has no court vision.

Dude can score but that's all about it.

Would fit more as a 6th man on a contending team. Instant points ala Lou Williams.

[Wally450]

Can I have some of what you're smoking?

[PeroAntic]

Dude has tunnel vision of the ring. Give him the ball and all he see is the ring.

Has no court vision.

Dude can score but that's all about it.

Would fit more as a 6th man on a contending team. Instant points ala Lou Williams.
Averages 5 assists per game... :facepalm

With that combination of quickness, leaping ability and skill/handle, I wonder why he passes at all. I'd just call pick and roll and drive to the basket all day long. Which is what Harden does. but not Lavine who actually moves off the ball and scores off assisted plays.

I mean Zach finishing percentage around the rim is 65. Harden? Only 60.

[AlternativeAcc.]

Pedo antics with another gem..

[LoneyROY7]

What's so funny is that as athletic as Lavine is, James Harden STILL has a quicker first step. :oldlol: :oldlol:

Let's take a look at Harden's recent game against the Celtics:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DhweYZUTPRI

(drives at 1:34, 1:52, 2:49, 3:08)

Harden is an absolute blur off that first move.

Combine that with his superior ballhandling, strength, footwork, and step-back jumpshot. :eek: :eek: That's why no other 2 guard can even remotely touch him. But hey Lavine can jump higher. :lol

[Uncle Drew]

Classic PeroAntic. Always in for the dumbest takes. Always wrong too

[PeroAntic]

What's so funny is that as athletic as Lavine is, James Harden STILL has a quicker first step. :oldlol: :oldlol:

Let's take a look at Harden's recent game against the Celtics:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DhweYZUTPRI

(drives at 1:34, 1:52, 2:49, 3:08)

Harden is an absolute blur off that first move.

Combine that with his superior ballhandling, strength, footwork, and step-back jumpshot. :eek: :eek: That's why no other 2 guard can even remotely touch him. But hey Lavine can jump higher. :lol
Not true. Lavine has a quicker first step.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VCKXr0HQvkM

(1:40, 3:19)

Props to Harden for beating Baynes with the help of a screen though.

Lavine also has a better post game. Hes unpredictable. Can catch and shoot. His handle is elite. meanwhile Harden does the same thing every time, Pound the ball, pick and roll from the top, stepback flopping. Yeah true basketball connoisseurs have no doubt about who would they rather watch.

Hopefully Lavine never learns how to exploit the rules like Harden.

[Overdrive]

Don't let stats fool you. Lavine is much more versatile explosive and aesthetic.

Is a torn ACL the requirement for you to be a fan?

[tontoz]

Lavine is having a breakout year and it's certainly thread worthy but comparing him to Harden is just dumb.

I would certainly say that Lavine is probably underrated right now. He has better skills than he gets credit for.

[LoneyROY7]

Not true. Lavine has a quicker first step.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VCKXr0HQvkM

(1:40, 3:19)

Props to Harden for beating Baynes with the help of a screen though.

Lavine also has a better post game. Hes unpredictable. Can catch and shoot. His handle is elite. meanwhile Harden does the same thing every time, Pound the ball, pick and roll from the top, stepback flopping. Yeah true basketball connoisseurs have no doubt about who would they rather watch.

Hopefully Lavine never learns how to exploit the rules like Harden.

You really are retarded aren't you? :oldlol: :oldlol:

The FIRST drive I posted was of Harden blowing past Baynes in an isolation.

And neither of those drives Lavine did match-up to Harden's quickness in the clips I posted. Keep taking Ls, champ.

[SouBeachTalents]

Y'all are really trying to make legitimate arguments against this retarded claim :lol

[LoneyROY7]

Y'all are really trying to make legitimate arguments against this retarded claim :lol

Not at all. Everyone's knows OP has some of the worst takes on ISH. I'm more just highlighting how remarkable Harden's quickness is in general.

[FKAri]

kblaze, you know what to do.

[Marchesk]

WS/48
Harden: .240
Lavine: .069

PER
Harden: 30.8
Lavine: 18.9

ORTG - DRTG
Harden: 118 - 110
Lavine: 106 - 114

TS%
Harden: 61.6%
Lavine: 57.4%

BPM
Harden: 11.09
Lavine: 0.20

[Smook A.]

Not even better than Harden in his first year in Houston :oldlol:

[ImKobe]

Better than Harden at 23? Their numbers are close, but James obviously had more experience and was on a team built around his talents while Zach is in his first healthy season after his ACL injury and on a tanking roster.

He has potential.

[PeroAntic]

You really are retarded aren't you? :oldlol: :oldlol:

The FIRST drive I posted was of Harden blowing past Baynes in an isolation.

And neither of those drives Lavine did match-up to Harden's quickness in the clips I posted. Keep taking Ls, champ.
Wow a guard beat a center off the dribble. Give him the MVP already:oldlol:

[Smoke117]

OP is just an attention whore. That's why he's always throwing out this retarded shit.

[PeroAntic]

WS/48
Harden: .240
Lavine: .069

PER
Harden: 30.8
Lavine: 18.9

ORTG - DRTG
Harden: 118 - 110
Lavine: 106 - 114

TS%
Harden: 61.6%
Lavine: 57.4%

BPM
Harden: 11.09
Lavine: 0.20
:no:

Advanced stats have zero meaning outside of context.

[imdaman99]

You serious son? :biggums: I have a cousin that is a diehard Bulls fan. He has told me countless times that Lavine has no interest in winning games. Dude wants to put up his shots and get his points and pouts if he doesn't get the ball every play. Not a winning player. I have no problem with that, he wants to get paid. But I have a problem with you overrating him OP. Don't be that guy lol

[Smook A.]

:no:

Advanced stats have zero meaning outside of context.
I genuinely wanna know why you believe LaVine is better than Harden. You gotta be ****ed up in the head to think that. I'll give you that he's more athletic but that's it.

[PP34Deuce]

Lavine currently is a loser. there are players that light it up once they are tanking. He hasn't been impactful to a playoff race.

Harden has lead teams to wins in the regular season. Disrespectful to even compare the 2.

Bulls with Zion become a really good team though... They need that positionless defender and finisher.

[PeroAntic]

I genuinely wanna know why you believe LaVine is better than Harden. You gotta be ****ed up in the head to think that. I'll give you that he's more athletic but that's it.
I already stated in the posts of this thread. Not only better leaper, but also quicker, better and more creative/versatile finisher around the rim, can play off the ball/catch n shoot, doesn't cheat, doesn't have only one move and generally a lot more elegant/graceful in his game. I mean people put Kobe over Lebron due to the latter. Being fun to watch is important in my book.

[PeroAntic]

pouts if he doesn't get the ball every play.
Wait you really gonna call out Lavine for this when Harden is holding the ball for 99% of Houston's possessions?:biggums:

[AirFederer]

Rose is better than peak Shaq in the post :cheers:

[smoovegittar]

Rose is better than peak Shaq in the post :cheers:


:roll: One of the most ignorant, short-sighted posters in here. Blindly follows his heroes right off the cliff. I blame LeBron, video games and gambling sites for corrupting the youth.
The NBA is creating a stupid fanbase. Shameful.

[PeroAntic]

:roll: One of the most ignorant, short-sighted posters in here. Blindly follows his heroes right off the cliff. I blame LeBron, video games and gambling sites for corrupting the youth.
The NBA is creating a stupid fanbase. Shameful.
I'm probably older than you, dickless:coleman:

Gotta love this board, every time someone thinks out of the box and offers logical arguments for that thinking, people resort to ad hominem insults and lame jokes to defend their dogmas. Nobody actually engages with the stuff being said:


Not only better leaper, but also quicker, better and more creative/versatile finisher around the rim, can play off the ball/catch n shoot, doesn't cheat, doesn't have only one move and generally a lot more elegant/graceful in his game. I mean people put Kobe over Lebron due to the latter.

Prove this wrong, idiots. Maybe Zach Lavine is not going to be the next ATG, but Harden is a fraud and no manufactured stats in the world can change that fact.

[Smoke117]

I'm probably older than you, dickless:coleman:

Gotta love this board, every time someone thinks out of the box and offers logical arguments for that thinking, people resort to ad hominem insults and lame jokes to defend their dogmas. Nobody actually engages with the stuff being said:



Prove this wrong, idiots. Maybe Zach Lavine is not going to be the next ATG, but Harden is a fraud and no manufactured stats in the world can change that fact.

There is nothing logical about saying Zach Lavine is better than James Harden. There is nothing logical about any of your takes. You aren't thinking outside of the box. You are just saying universally recognized stupid ass shit.

[LoneyROY7]

I already stated in the posts of this thread. Not only better leaper, but also quicker, better and more creative/versatile finisher around the rim, can play off the ball/catch n shoot, doesn't cheat, doesn't have only one move and generally a lot more elegant/graceful in his game. I mean people put Kobe over Lebron due to the latter. Being fun to watch is important in my book.

Harden is quicker, sorry bro. :oldlol: :oldlol:

Eye test doesn't lie. Harden has the best first step in the game outside of probably only Westbrook.

[Smook A.]

I already stated in the posts of this thread. Not only better leaper, but also quicker, better and more creative/versatile finisher around the rim, can play off the ball/catch n shoot, doesn't cheat, doesn't have only one move and generally a lot more elegant/graceful in his game. I mean people put Kobe over Lebron due to the latter. Being fun to watch is important in my book.
That doesn't mean he's the better player :lol

You're just cherry picking stuff and not providing actual numbers to back up your ridiculous statement. Basically what you're doing is that you're judging based off of how aesthetic the player's game is to you.

Can't believe im even arguing this with you. You're a bonehead

[PeroAntic]

There is nothing logical about saying Zach Lavine is better than James Harden. There is nothing logical about any of your takes. You aren't thinking outside of the box. You are just saying universally recognized stupid ass shit.
Prove this wrong then.


Not only better leaper, but also quicker, better and more creative/versatile finisher around the rim, can play off the ball/catch n shoot, doesn't cheat, doesn't have only one move and generally a lot more elegant/graceful in his game. I mean people put Kobe over Lebron due to the latter.


Repeating over and over 'stupid ass shit' 'idiot poster' just means youre out of arguments.

[Smook A.]

Harden is quicker, sorry bro. I've got the clips that prove it. :oldlol: :oldlol:

Eye test doesn't lie. Harden has the best first step in the game outside of probably only Westbrook.
His deceleration is also really good. Harden's more athletic than people think he is.

[LoneyROY7]

Prove this wrong then.




Repeating over and over 'stupid ass shit' 'idiot poster' just means youre out of arguments.

Lmaoo at just reposting the same false statement. :oldlol: :oldlol:

[Smook A.]

Prove this wrong then.




Repeating over and over 'stupid ass shit' 'idiot poster' just means youre out of arguments.
Prove this wrong:

Harden beats LaVine in
PPG
RPG
APG
BPG
APG
TS%
eFG%
+/-
FT%

Oh and btw this is from Harden 2012-13 season when he first joined the Rockets. He's improved immensely since then

[Smoke117]

Prove this wrong then.




Repeating over and over 'stupid ass shit' 'idiot poster' just means youre out of arguments.

What would be the point? If you actually believe Lavine is better than Harden then you are so far down the rabbit hole that it is pointless to try to have any reasonable debate with you.

[72-10]

Lavine has more game than most, but quite frankly his shot selection is too illogically inefficient to lead to winning basketball.

[PeroAntic]

Eye test doesn't lie.
I can agree on that:D

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LEQKdh-zSic

Watch the four sequences starting from 0:54. Zach's acceleration is unreal.

Oh and did I mention posting up skills?

**** James Harden and all his fans

[superduper]

Call me when Lavine carries his 14th seeded team all the way to the 3rd seed while averaging 40/7/7/2/1 over a 40 game stretch in the non-bubblebath conference.

Not a fan but you have to respect THE King James

[PeroAntic]

Prove this wrong:

Harden beats LaVine in
PPG
RPG
APG
BPG
APG
TS%
eFG%
+/-
FT%

Oh and btw this is from Harden 2012-13 season when he first joined the Rockets. He's improved immensely since then
Bron beats Kobe in these too (except ft%). So ****ing what? Stats are not be all end all, they have a meaning only when contextualized. When you have one of the biggest statwhores in history in Harden who holds the ball for 99% of Houston's possessions and gets his stats artificially boosted by flopping and cheating for freethrows, then yeah inflated stats mean shit. Zach's stats are great as well.

[Smoke117]

Only OP would argue a guy with a -0.93 RPM is better than the guy with the 2nd best in the league at 7.16. :oldlol: If you replaced Harden with Lavine the Rockets would be 15 games under .500 right now.

[PeroAntic]

Lmaoo at just reposting the same false statement. :oldlol: :oldlol:
Wait so you disproved (at least in your mind, even though you really didnt) one of a b ofunch things (quickness), and you decided the entire statement is false? lol Harden fans.. it does make sense how can you be a fan of that clown:oldlol:

[Smook A.]

Bron beats Kobe in these too (except ft%). So ****ing what? Stats are not be all end all, they have a meaning only when contextualized. When you have one of the biggest statwhores in history in Harden who holds the ball for 99% of Houston's possessions and gets his stats artificially boosted by flopping and cheating for freethrows, then yeah inflated stats mean shit. Zach's stats are great as well.
LeBron's a better player than Kobe tho :lol And im saying this as a big fan of Kobe

[PeroAntic]

Only OP would argue a guy with a -0.93 RPM is better than the guy with the 2nd best in the league at 7.16. :oldlol:
another statboy exposed:rockon:

[Smoke117]

another statboy exposed:rockon:

Yeah, a stat boy. That stat backs up impact you imbecile. If you replaced Harden with Lavine the Rockets would be 15 games under .500. You think he could carry the Rockets like Harden has done for the majority of this season? You have the bbiq of an Andrew Wiggins.

[Smook A.]

Also PeroAntic, you bring up that Harden holds the ball too much and is a stat whore. Did you know in the 39 game stretch after the Rockets started 11-14, they had the highest offensive rating in the HISTORY of the NBA? They also went 28-11 in that time, and because of who? James Harden of course. He averaged 40/7/7/2/1 on 62% in those 39 games. Truth is, Rockets wouldn't be as good on offense if Harden didn't decide to completely take over.

[PeroAntic]

LeBron's a better player than Kobe tho
Except half the world doesn't agree.

People here act as if Harden is some kind of winner and champion for whom its shameful to be compared with a kid like Lavine, when in reality the guy has been proven to be the biggest choker in recent history.

bbbut RPFG or whatever its called:roll:

[LoneyROY7]

Damn, let's take another look at Harden's unreal first step and burst off standstill movement.

Here's highlights of his 50 point triple double against LA:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g92m57cWcvQ&t=141s

(drives at :25, 1:15, 5:25, 6:09)

Dude's first step is just crazy. To get that kinda burst off of jab-steps and size-up dribbles is insane. And he always maintains perfect running form by keeping up on his toes at all times when accelerating. Just picture-perfect type stuff.

[72-10]

unhuh, his "first step":rolleyes:

[PeroAntic]

Yeah, a stat boy. That stat backs up impact you imbecile. If you replaced Harden with Lavine the Rockets would be 15 games under .500. You think he could carry the Rockets like Harden has done for the majority of this season? You have the bbiq of an Andrew Wiggins.
That stat points out that someone with Harden's skillset is effective for a team built like Houston in terms of personnel and basketball style. Doesn't mean shit about individual ability. Maybe Lavine if given the same role could do it, maybe not. Him being athletically superior compensates for being slightly inferior in terms of handle. What is certain is that Harden can't play the multidimensional game Lavine plays, because he's worse off the ball and in post up skills.

I'm sure Lavine would have had much more impact if he knew how to flop his way to 10+ freethrows per game.

[smoovegittar]

I'm probably older than you, dickless:coleman:

I'm 53 years old, asswipe.

Gotta love this board, every time someone thinks out of the box and offers logical arguments for that thinking, people resort to ad hominem insults and lame jokes to defend their dogmas. Nobody actually engages with the stuff being said:



Prove this wrong, idiots. Maybe Zach Lavine is not going to be the next ATG, but Harden is a fraud and no manufactured stats in the world can change that fact.

The only thing YOU prove is how much of an attention whore you are. Even people in here who I generally disagree with consider you mentally unfit. But hey! it's assholes like you who make this place what it is. Continue...

[PeroAntic]

I mean Zach has ten less shots per game (despite shooting better both overall and for three) and five less freethrows. Holy crap!:biggums:

[LoneyROY7]

Guys lets rehash some Pero Antic's takes:

Said Rose > Harden and Westbrook.

Said Melo was still a big-time contributor but was being held back by Harden.

Said Zion Williamson was a rich man's Anthony Bennett.

Now said Harden > Lavine.

:yaohappy: :yaohappy: :yaohappy:

[72-10]

I mean Zach has ten less shots per game (despite shooting better both overall and for three) and five less freethrows. Holy crap!:biggums:

Right - I doubt Lavine's efficiency would go up with an increased workload on offense. The free throws would, though.

Although the plays he's making are really good, he does not convert enough of his shots from the field.

[smoovegittar]

Guys lets rehash some Pero Antic's takes:

Said Rose > Harden and Westbrook.

Said Melo was still a big-time contributor but was being held back by Harden.

Said Zion Williamson was a rich man's Anthony Bennett.

Now said Harden > Lavine.

:yaohappy: :yaohappy: :yaohappy:

I guess negative attention is better than no attention at all....Like a battered housewife.

[PeroAntic]

Guys lets rehash some Pero Antic's takes:

Said Rose > Harden and Westbrook.

Said Melo was still a big-time contributor but was being held back by Harden.

Said Zion Williamson was a rich man's Anthony Bennett.

Now said Harden > Lavine.

:yaohappy: :yaohappy: :yaohappy:
You can rehash all you want, it won't help your case about the only thing you cherrypicked from that list in which Harden is better, and in which you were also wrong:oldlol:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mYEy1KYIQ9s

1:48 Zach goes past the defender as if he isn't there. I mean hes got the stride of Giannis with the nimble feet of Starbury. Scary.

fyi, Harden's 'first step' is decent not extraordinary. what makes it so effective is that the defender always has to be on his toes to not get his hand hooked in or baited in some flop, so he gets beaten most of the time. Its no rocket science, and its nothing crazy outside of that particular iso heavy context that the Rockets built around Harden.

Good that you provided us with some Harden quickness videos. Now how about some footwork videos? NOthing?:roll:

[LoneyROY7]

You can rehash all you want, it won't help your case about the only thing you cherrypicked from that list in which Harden is better, and in which you were also wrong:oldlol:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mYEy1KYIQ9s

1:48 Zach goes past the defender as if he isn't there. I mean hes got the stride of Giannis with the nimble feet of Starbury. Scary.

fyi, Harden's 'first step' is decent not extraordinary. what makes it so effective is that the defender always has to be on his toes to not get his hand hooked in or baited in some flop, so he gets beaten most of the time. Its no rocket science, and its nothing crazy outside of that particular iso heavy context that the Rockets built around Harden.

Good that you provided us with some Harden quickness videos. Now how about some footwork videos? NOthing?:roll:

That's all I need to see to know you have zero eye for basketball talent/athletic abilities. :oldlol: :oldlol:

You don't know shit, bud...and it's been proven over and over on this board.

[72-10]

Right - Harden pushes the defender out of the way on his first step sometimes. That is illegal and should result in both an offensive foul and a turnover charged to Harden.

[PeroAntic]

Right - Harden pushes the defender out of the way on his first step sometimes. That is illegal and should result in both an offensive foul and a turnover charged to Harden.
No no, its just that hes so superhumanly quick. Nothing to do with the fact that every defender has to put extra care that he doesn't become the victim of the arm hook + dramatic flailing.

[LoneyROY7]

No no, its just that hes so superhumanly quick. Nothing to do with the fact that every defender has to put extra care that he doesn't become the victim of the arm hook + dramatic flailing.

:oldlol: :oldlol: :oldlol:

That doesn't change how quickly his feet move. And that's what I'm watching...his feet. I'm sure that goes right over your head though.

[Smoke117]

Guys lets rehash some Pero Antic's takes:

Said Rose > Harden and Westbrook.

Said Melo was still a big-time contributor but was being held back by Harden.

Said Zion Williamson was a rich man's Anthony Bennett.

Now said Harden > Lavine.

:yaohappy: :yaohappy: :yaohappy:

Carmelo, Rose, Lavine...he is obsessed with one dimensional scorers with minimal impact who are dreadful defensively.

[Mr.GOAT2408]

Wouldn't go that far, although I'm sure he could average 35+ in that offense I don't think he'll provide much outside of Scoring. He's literally just a scorer

[PeroAntic]

Carmelo, Rose, Lavine...he is obsessed with one dimensional scorers with minimal impact who are dreadful defensively.
One dimensional scorers...

Dreadful defensively...


https://s.yimg.com/ny/api/res/1.2/73xGUgwXkhnxsm4nBldt_w--~A/YXBwaWQ9aGlnaGxhbmRlcjtzbT0xO3c9NDc1O2g9Mzc3/http://media.zenfs.com/en/homerun/feed_manager_auto_publish_494/12626c60f9a45f9837e3364445003281