The GOAT's take on stats

[ImKobe]

https://www.instagram.com/p/BuslRBmHsmz/


Well, that never drove me. Stats only add up... when you put the effort, you don't worry about it. Good things happen if people work hard. If i'd play for the stats i'd never retire in 1993? or i'd still be chasing Kareem Abdul-Jabbar's scoring record. That doesn't drive me. It's all about winning championships and winning.

[Vino24]

During breaks in games, Jordan has been wandering over to the scorer's table to get updates on how many rebounds, assists and points he needs to fill his three double-figure quotas.

:oldlol:

[ImKobe]

http://lh6.ggpht.com/_YODg65nll_o/SkIrfVUqMtI/AAAAAAABzkY/Xf7f_skW1R8/s600/news_lebron-james-check-my-stats-1.jpg

[Marchesk]

During breaks in games, Jordan has been wandering over to the scorer's table to get updates on how many rebounds, assists and points he needs to fill his three double-figure quotas.:oldlol:

Jordan was no Westbrook.

[AlternativeAcc.]

So lebron doesnt wanna win? Hes just been carrying teams and taking no time off his entire career just for stats? :facepalm

What the **** are these special ed arguments

Lebrons main concern is WINNING and it always has been. Anyone that disputes that can come lick the sweat off my post sauna sack. Dummies

[FKAri]

During breaks in games, Jordan has been wandering over to the scorer's table to get updates on how many rebounds, assists and points he needs to fill his three double-figure quotas.

"The guys at the scorer's desk let me know what I need," he said. "They tell me, 'You need three assists; you need two rebounds."'

Jordan also has been double-checking the figures with Chicago assistants.

"They keep me in tune," he said. "They keep reminding me when I come back to the huddle, how much I need."

Last Sunday, at home against New Jersey, the 10th assist was Jordan's final goal.

"I knew I had nine assists," he said, "and I looked at (forward) Brad (Sellers), and said, 'Brad, can I count on you for my 10th?' And he said, 'yeah' and hit a jumper from the baseline."

https://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/fl-xpm-1989-04-09-8901190048-story.html

[SouBeachTalents]

^ :oldlol:

[FKAri]

Since switching to point guard for the Chicago Bulls, Michael Jordan has become statistic conscious. He has started checking with statisticians to see how close he is to a triple-double. He had a string of seven consecutive triple-doubles broken Friday night.

Jordan is trying to win over voters for the league's most valuable player award.

"If the way I'm playing now doesn't convince them I'm a complete player, then I guess nothing will," Jordan said.

http://articles.latimes.com/1989-04-11/sports/sp-1572_1_players-bicker-johnny-newman-jackson-s-backup

[bullettooth]

Lebrons main concern is WINNING and it always has been. Anyone that disputes that can come lick the sweat off my post sauna sack. Dummies

Then why has he racked up so many losses in the finals?

[Round Mound]

He is right but also then Russell is the GOAT :confusedshrug:

[LAmbruh]

https://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/fl-xpm-1989-04-09-8901190048-story.html
:yaohappy:

[FKAri]

Did someone say $tats?



But Jordan was the king, and the bloodiest battles for resources tended to be between him and the teammates he called "my supporting cast." "Screw you, M.J.," Grant said after one game. "All you care about is your points and everyone knows it.You don’t care about anything but yourself."
https://www.amazon.ca/Jordan-Rules-Sam-Smith/dp/0671796666

MJ on some Ricky Davis shit :oldlol:

[MrFonzworth]

So lebron doesnt wanna win? Hes just been carrying teams and taking no time off his entire career just for stats? :facepalm

What the **** are these special ed arguments

Lebrons main concern is WINNING and it always has been. Anyone that disputes that can come lick the sweat off my post sauna sack. Dummies
This thread is about the GOAT. Who said anything about L36ron?:yaohappy:

Only one in special ed is you fakkit.

[Hey Yo]

http://lh6.ggpht.com/_YODg65nll_o/SkIrfVUqMtI/AAAAAAABzkY/Xf7f_skW1R8/s600/news_lebron-james-check-my-stats-1.jpg
LeBron James, in the playoffs and now also the regular season, has Michael Jordan beat in the following:

Points
Rebounds
Assists
Blocks
FG%
3FG%
TS%
Offensive Win Shares
Defensive Win Shares
BPM
VORP

When it's all said & done, this isn't even going to be a debate.

[bullettooth]

LeBron James, in the playoffs and now also the regular season, has Michael Jordan beat in the following:

Points
Rebounds
Assists
Blocks
FG%
3FG%
TS%
Offensive Win Shares
Defensive Win Shares
BPM
VORP

When it's all said & done, this isn't even going to be a debate.

Wow, that sounds impressive. He must be a real winner! How many rings does this guy have?

[FKAri]

^ :oldlol:
They NEVER have a response. They put their head down and move on. :oldlol:

[Hey Yo]

Did someone say $tats?



https://www.amazon.ca/Jordan-Rules-Sam-Smith/dp/0671796666

MJ on some Ricky Davis shit :oldlol:
https://media1.giphy.com/media/bU2nZJegR7rz2/giphy.gif

[Da_Realist]

MJ went through a time where he tried to prove himself by his numbers but that ended around 1990.

Otherwise, he would have quite easily topped 60+ in the 92 Finals where he scored 35 in the first half of game 1 and ended with only 39 total.

He would have played through the 94 and 95 seasons averaging over 30 and easily adding an additional 4500 points to his total.

And he would have added at least another 6000 points by playing from 98-99 through the 00-01 seasons averaging around 25ppg.

He didn't because he didn't care about that stuff anymore.

LeBron has been fooling kids with his stat sheet stuffing his whole career. He won't even play defense because he needs to save that energy for his stat stuffing.

Even when MJ was checking the stat sheet, he didn't sacrfice his defense.

[ImKobe]

MJ sacrificed his stats and became more of an off-ball player in the 2nd 3-Peat, Lebron would never...

[Smook A.]

LeBron James, in the playoffs and now also the regular season, has Michael Jordan beat in the following:

Points
Rebounds
Assists
Blocks
FG%
3FG%
TS%
Offensive Win Shares
Defensive Win Shares
BPM
VORP

When it's all said & done, this isn't even going to be a debate.
You know accolades matter too, right? I mean sure this is still impressive as hell, but stats aren't the only thing that determine who the GOAT is.

[knicksman]

winners only care about rings. Only kids care about stats.

[Da_Realist]

MJ sacrificed his stats and became more of an off-ball player in the 2nd 3-Peat, Lebron would never...

Way before that. MJ was primarily off the ball in 1990 when Phil took over and they implememted the triangle offense.

[72-10]

They really only literally ran the offense through Jordan, and by that I mean with Jordan being the primary ballhandler, in like 88 and 89?:confusedshrug:

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

Way before that.

Yup.

He was off-ball when Phil took over. The 89-90 season.

Before that? MJ played a style where despite carrying the rock, he made quick/precise decisions. Monopolizing the basketball was never Jordan's thing. Collins relied on MJ a bit much but that's different than "Bron ball".

[FKAri]

"Ya but how do by numbas look doe?" - MJ


A SUPER TEAM...A SUPERSTAR...A SUPER EGO
The most gifted athlete ever to play the game, Michael Jordan rose to heights no basketball player had ever reached before. What drove Michael Jordan? The pursuit of team success...or of his own personal glory? The pursuit of excellence...or of his next multimillion-dollar endorsement? The flight of the man they call Air Jordan had been rocked by controversy. In The Jordan Rules, which chronicles the Chicago Bulls' first championship season, Sam Smith takes the #1 Bull by the horns to reveal the team behind the man...and the man behind the Madison Avenue smile. Here is the inside game, both on and off the court, including:

Jordan's power struggles with management, from verbal attacks on the general manager to tantrums against his coach
Behind-the-scenes feuds, as Jordan punches a teammate in practice and refuses to pass the ball in the crucial minutes of big games
The players who competed with His Airness for Air Time -- Scottie Pippen, Horace Grant, Bill Cartwright -- telling their sides of the story
A penetrating look at coach Phil Jackson, the former flower child who blossomed into one of the NBA's top motivators and who finally found a way to coax "Michael and the Jordanaires" to the their first title

https://www.amazon.ca/Jordan-Rules-Sam-Smith/dp/0671796666

[sdot_thadon]

[QUOTE]

Against the Sonics, Jordan takes the ball away from Payton the first two times he touches it. Payton is so thoroughly owned that he has to go to the bench. But just as Jordan is gliding toward a SportsCenter-worthy night, Jackson pulls him out of the game. De-Michaelization and all.

"He

[Da_Realist]

:rolleyes:

1991 MJ averaged 32 ppg

3 more ppg than 2nd place Karl Malone at 29 ppg while playing 3 mins less per game.

MJ walked into the scoring title. He sat most 4th quarters because Chicago was blowing teams out. I believe they set the record for points differential that year.

He could have easily decided to play more in garbage time if he wanted to score more... not that he needed to because he handily won the scoring title while playing the least amount of minutes than in any full season of his career.

[superduper]

https://media.giphy.com/media/FxjpIBg9Ar9xm/giphy.gif

[72-10]

1991 MJ averaged 32 ppg

3 more ppg than 2nd place Karl Malone at 29 ppg while playing 3 mins less per game.

MJ walked into the scoring title. He sat most 4th quarters because Chicago was blowing teams out. I believe they set the record for points differential that year.

He could have easily decided to play more in garbage time if he wanted to score more... not that he needed to because he handily won the scoring title while playing the least amount of minutes than in any full season of his career.

Well, that sure sounds like a man who plays for stats. So does a man whose biggest go-to scoring choice on offense is a fadeaway.:rolleyes:

[egokiller]

If LeBron wasn't so concerned about his stats, he'd have more than 3 rings. He's not good enough like MJ to balance both stats and winning. :lol

[ArbitraryWater]

https://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/fl-xpm-1989-04-09-8901190048-story.html

I cant :roll: :roll: :roll:

[Mr.GOAT2408]

80s MJ definitely cared, anyone that plays PG generally speaking cares as that's the easiest position to rack up numbers. Even before that he was scoring to prove a point, all young players do. At some point it clicks that there's way more to greatness than that.

90s MJ though? Not so much, focused on winning, playing off the ball, defending, whatever it took to win :rockon:

[StrongLurk]

MJ cared about stats...which is not a problem.

[FKAri]

80s MJ definitely cared, anyone that plays PG generally speaking cares as that's the easiest position to rack up numbers. Even before that he was scoring to prove a point, all young players do. At some point it clicks that there's way more to greatness than that.

90s MJ though? Not so much, focused on winning, playing off the ball, defending, whatever it took to win :rockon:
Ya that sounds like it could be true except it's not the case with MJ. MJ became smarter about controlling the pace of a game and trusting teammates in the 90's but his psyche and motivations as a player didn't change. MJ used whatever he could as fuel to motivate him. Whether it be stats or any other little goals.

Especially during the long slog of the regular season when they were already on contending teams, guys like Lebron, Kobe and Wade were doing this too. They needed these things to avoid growing complacent in the regular season. You set goals and create a game within the game.

The only superstar caliber players I've suspected of statpadding on a regular basis are Westbrook and Moses. And it was only a couple seasons. Otherwise lower level players statpad a LOT more frequently because they want to get their name out there as well as use it for contract negotiations (that shit matters a lot nowadays).

[72-10]

https://getyarn.io/yarn-clip/f9cdff2c-d23a-4cbf-be68-89c4b15516c3

[plowking]

Wow, that sounds impressive. He must be a real winner! How many rings does this guy have?

Why pretend like winning is the only measure?

Are all things equal outside of their own talent? Certainly not.

The level of teammates, and the level of teams they played are not equal.

If the aim of the game is to win, Lebron has done it.
He has a bunch of individual accolades too.
He has the greatest longevity at this level of any player, ever.

Same way Magic somehow leapfrogged Bird in the last 20 or so years.
When they were playing, Bird was considered the better player. Now apparently all that matters is the number of rings.

Duncan could have won 7 rings. He still wouldn't have been better than Jordan.

[sdot_thadon]

Mj was just like everyone else.

[QUOTE=Jordan Rules]

Jordan, like most players in the league, studied his statistics, for that was, in the end, how players were paid. Play as a team, they were told; but in negotiating sessions, statistics were always held up as the barometer of value. It was hard to find an NBA player who did not know his current statistics, and those of most of the players in the league. During the 1988

[Da_Realist]

Mj was just like everyone else.

That's what Mj was doing in Chicago guys.

Anything after 89 or 90?

[kennethgriffen]

So lebron doesnt wanna win? Hes just been carrying teams and taking no time off his entire career just for stats? :facepalm

What the **** are these special ed arguments

Lebrons main concern is WINNING and it always has been. Anyone that disputes that can come lick the sweat off my post sauna sack. Dummies


if lebrons main concern was winning he'd play defense

if lebrons main concern was winning he'd adhere to a real offensive system

if lebrons main concern was winning he'd not be satisfied just making the finals

if lebrons main concern was winning he'd learn how to shoot free throws

if lebrons main concern was winning he wouldn't throw teammates under the bus

if lebrons main concern was winning he wouldn't quit and pout cause his teammate was in line for finals mvp

if lebrons main concern was winning he wouldn't quit and pout cause JR smith made a bonehead play

if lebrons main concern was winning he wouldn't have shut himself down with 17 games left in the season with no serious injuries to deal with

if lebrons main concern was winning he wouldn't have come to the west to make movies/rap albums/avoid more finals L's at all cost

[TheCorporation]

http://lh6.ggpht.com/_YODg65nll_o/SkIrfVUqMtI/AAAAAAABzkY/Xf7f_skW1R8/s600/news_lebron-james-check-my-stats-1.jpg

I'm only going to say this once because everyone that posts this picture obviously doesn't understand what it's saying.

$tats = money

He is saying he has a lot of money.

Check my stats
Check my paper
Money taller than a giraffe
etc.

You're welcome.

Now, Check my $tats :pimp:

[TheCorporation]

MJ: Of course I care about stats. I was always padding stats. In fact, I am the all-time #1 post season points scorer and game winners made.

Reporter: Actually MJ, you've been passed up in post season points and game winners and elimination game ppg and steals and...

MJ: Oh wait, I mean I don't really care about stats!

:coleman:

[sportjames23]

https://www.instagram.com/p/BuslRBmHsmz/

:bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown:

[bullettooth]

https://media.giphy.com/media/FxjpIBg9Ar9xm/giphy.gif

https://usatftw.files.wordpress.com/2016/05/l41yagou1negeeuqe.gif

[nayte]

A bit of a thread backfire.. Lol. Those Jordan quotes have been around for ages. Always wanted to read that book

[sdot_thadon]

A bit of a thread backfire.. Lol. Those Jordan quotes have been around for ages. Always wanted to read that book
As an Mj fan i refused to read it for years, finally about 4 or 5 years back i picked it up. It's not as much a smear campaign as people thought just a peek behind the curtain. Will really kill alot of Mj myths that get thrown around in regards to modern players. I enjoyed Bill Simmons book of basketball as well.

[sdot_thadon]

Anything after 89 or 90?
not that it matters but yeah. the previous Payton quote you replied to was from the 91 season and any quotes without the year cited were also, the book was about the 91 season but used bits from the past to provide a backdrop.

[QUOTE]
He was headed for a 50-point game, at least the high 40s, with easily a few more fan-pleasing cradle dunks, but Jackson took him out early. And as Jordan sat on the bench during the fourth quarter after having played just 27 minutes, less than every starter but Paxson, he finally came to a realization, something he

[Hey Yo]

80s MJ definitely cared, anyone that plays PG generally speaking cares as that's the easiest position to rack up numbers. Even before that he was scoring to prove a point, all young players do. At some point it clicks that there's way more to greatness than that.

90s MJ though? Not so much, focused on winning, playing off the ball, defending, whatever it took to win :rockon:
The pace of the game got slower and slower pretty much each year after Jordan came into the league, yet he still avg. 25.7FGA in 1993. That was his 2nd highest FGA per game of his career with the highest being in 1987 when he avg. 27.8FGA

But yeah, he didn't care about stats in the 90's.....:rolleyes:

[Da_Realist]

not that it matters but yeah. the previous Payton quote you replied to was from the 91 season and any quotes without the year cited were also, the book was about the 91 season but used bits from the past to provide a backdrop.



https://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/199011170SEA.html



https://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/199103280NJN.html

and there's more than enough more to paint the picture further.

Are you kidding? He actually sat like his coach told him to? He actually learned to play within the offense like his coach requested? LeBron would have gotten the inexperienced coach fired and had those complaining teammates shipped the hell out of there.

[sdot_thadon]

Are you kidding? He actually sat like his coach told him to? He actually learned to play within the offense like his coach requested? LeBron would have gotten the inexperienced coach fired and had those complaining teammates shipped the hell out of there.
so now since the goalpost you moved wasn't enough you're going disregard the quotes and the point of them being in a thread that states Mj didn't care about stats? Sounds about right.:applause:

[riseagainst]

Lebron doesn't play defense because it doesn't impact his stats.

[ImKobe]

Are you kidding? He actually sat like his coach told him to? He actually learned to play within the offense like his coach requested? LeBron would have gotten the inexperienced coach fired and had those complaining teammates shipped the hell out of there.

Yup. Who was Phil Jackson when he first took over in Chicago?

Imagine a younger Phil Jackson taking over in Cleveland in 09 and trying to make Bran play a triangle offense :roll:

Jordan adapted and did anything it took to win games, he showed his statistical dominance his early years on bad teams and did "check his stats" when his team really had nothing else to play for (the era of Lakers, Celtics, Pistons), but he adapted to playing winning basketball. Truth is that Lebron never has. He's won on pure talent and having great teammates around him, but he's still trying to play the same way on a roster that doesn't fit with it.

[Da_Realist]

Yup. Who was Phil Jackson when he first took over in Chicago?

Imagine a younger Phil Jackson taking over in Cleveland in 09 and trying to make Bran play a triangle offense :roll:

Jordan adapted and did anything it took to win games, he showed his statistical dominance his early years on bad teams and did "check his stats" when his team really had nothing else to play for (the era of Lakers, Celtics, Pistons), but he adapted to playing winning basketball. Truth is that Lebron never has. He's won on pure talent and having great teammates around him, but he's still trying to play the same way on a roster that doesn't fit with it.

Two totally different levels. One guy was learning when to facilitate and when to shoot, when to play within the offense and when to take over. The other guy ships out the whole team when he's challenged to play differently.

One guy respected authority, submitted to the coach and the system even when he disagreed. Worked with teammates through friction and tension.

The other guy ships everyone out.

MJ didn't care enough about his stats to jeopardize the team that would eventually win 6 titles. He, the coaching staff and his teammates worked together for YEARS after Sam Smith's book came out in the middle of their championship run. Why? Because MJ kept his mind on the only thing that truly mattered to him -- winning. Think about all the quotes and stories that became public knowledge in 92. MJ led them to 2 straight titles after that.

Would LeBron have been able to withstand that? NO. He would have either shipped everyone out or left for another team.

[Smoke117]

Thread backfire. :roll: :roll: Jordan is one of the biggest statpadders of all time.

[Rico2016]

A bit of a thread backfire.. Lol. Those Jordan quotes have been around for ages. Always wanted to read that book

Yep :rockon:

[34-24 Footwork]

https://media.giphy.com/media/FxjpIBg9Ar9xm/giphy.gif

One of the best gifs :lol

[Rico2016]

"You may not know this but it's true that Kobe has zero postseason triple doubles for his NBA career.

Bron: Zero? This can't be. Let me check the stats on this

https://media.giphy.com/media/FxjpIBg9Ar9xm/giphy.gif[/QUOTE]

[3ball]

Thread backfire. :roll: :roll: Jordan is one of the biggest statpadders of all time.
Everyone pads

But only MJ won 4+ FMVP's (he has 6)

Only MJ has a goat-level of winning and stats.. (goat-level PER, PPG, ring count)... :confusedshrug: