Does Hakeem prove that you can't teach talent?

[hiphopanonymous]

Hakeem worked with:

Dwight Howard
Javale McGee
LeBron James


These are pros at their sport and they paid their own dime to learn from him and study up close how he did what he did in the post.


And yet they don't duplicate what he did. Is it because they can't duplicate what he did? Is it proof that there are some things you just can't teach or learn in basketball? Such as talent? In his case maybe a natural wiring of coordination and timing that only he could possess?

[FKAri]

This idea that anyone can lock themselves in a gym and come out with elite skills is nonsense. You can practice the optimum way with the correct base fundamentals as well as meet the athletic requirements and still not have the talent to execute certain things at an elite level. You will get better but how far you go and the rate at which you improve is different for everyone in ANYTHING.

So ya no shit. You can't teach talent.

[MrFonzworth]

2 of them are first ballot HOFers.

[superduper]

Out of all of the players that trained with Hakeem there was only one skilled enough, only one cognitively hung enough to actually implement the insanely skilled art of Hakeemistan into his giant Mamba.

God gifted athletic clowns with 0 skill and low IQ have no place in Hakeem's presence.

[iamgine]

More like Hakeem proved he can't teach.

[Mr Exlax]

Dwight improved his post game the following season and improved more the season after that. The part that you're leaving out for whatever reason is BACK SURGERY. It changed him.

[ElPigto]

More like Hakeem proved he can't teach.

Nah man, Hakeem just proved he knew how to hustle people out of money.

[hiphopanonymous]

Dwight improved his post game the following season and improved more the season after that. The part that you're leaving out for whatever reason is BACK SURGERY. It changed him.
The fact is these guys never really became fluid like Hakeem

They may have got more comfortable with their back to the basket slightly - but it's just that, slight. They never suddenly looked fluid all 3 of those guys are still extremely mechanical in the post

[Kblaze8855]

The things you think of when you think Hakeem are counters to basic moves none of the people in question had much of to begin with. Youre talking about trying to put truffles on Kraft mac and cheese. Trying to teach a new mortal kombat player to do fatalities when he cant win the match first.

Who you want to talk about is Pete Newell and his ilk who taught the basics....and did it well enough to show you CAN teach what a lot of people feel like is talent but is often execution.

Pete Newell taught just about every bigman you can think of after like...1970. Hakeem worked with him. Bill Walton. Ewing. Shaq. Barkley Im talking 300 bigmen.

His camps taught footwork and attacking to almost everyone tall from the 70s till he died. People learned. Plenty of them. But if you dont have the basics from him and even going back to the Mikan drills?

Hakeem cant really teach counters to people who dont have the simple things to work off of.

Hakeem could do all that because his jump hook and turnaround were so great. If they dont have the initial moves all the counters are useless because the D wont bite to begin with.

[tpols]

More like Hakeem proved he can't teach.


you cant teach natural fluidity and body control... dwight was always clunky even when he was dominant, he was beating guys with minimal moves & pure force.

[warriorfan]

The things you think of when you think Hakeem are counters to basic moves none of the people in question had much of to begin with. Youre talking about trying to put truffles on Kraft mac and cheese. Trying to teach a new mortal kombat player to do fatalities when he cant win the match first.

Who you want to talk about is Pete Newell and his ilk who taught the basics....and did it well enough to show you CAN teach what a lot of people feel like is talent but is often execution.

Pete Newell taught just about every bigman you can think of after like...1970. Hakeem worked with him. Bill Walton. Ewing. Shaq. Barkley Im talking 300 bigmen.

His camps taught footwork and attacking to almost everyone tall from the 70s till he died. People learned. Plenty of them. But if you dont have the basics from him and even going back to the Mikan drills?

Hakeem cant really teach counters to people who dont have the simple things to work off of.

Hakeem could do all that because his jump hook and turnaround were so great. If they dont have the initial moves all the counters are useless because the D wont bite to begin with.

Good explanation, Hakeem is trying to teach these cats calculus when they have been failing out of geometry.


You can

[hiphopanonymous]

https://youtu.be/dkxFtT0GUP0

I agree with Kblaze countermove point

It's even slightly more too it as far as I can see - he's got a fluidity with the moves in general - counter move or not, it's all very smooth when he does it - and little nuances like where he pockets the ball in his hand vs where his students are placing it... it's like he's doing more, and with more fluidity, than they are doing. But in a way it looks like he's doing less cause it's all in one fluid movement. Where as their attempts look broken up into separate pieces.

Seems to have an aptitude or a natural feel for the ball that his verbal instruction or even visual demonstration isn't translating to his students

[Kblaze8855]

Hakeem tries to teach in a way he didnt learn. Hakeem didnt just...learn the dreamshake. He developed it. It started raw but too athletic to stop with just 2 moves....


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dz1l3vZJPxo



Turnaround and a hook.

He abused those two to such an extent he HAD to develop counters. He played Moses Malone and other NBA guys all summer for 3 years in college and kept getting better at the basics to the point hed slaughter you off two moves....and people would bite the hell outta every attempt.

But hes teaching Dwight to counter out of the jump hook into step throughs....when people didnt fear Dwights hook to begin with. Hakeems moves were so nasty because they were mid stream counters...not pre arranged "moves" like his students try to do.

He had some obviously pre determined ball fakes and all but on a basic level...Hakeem was 2 moves plus 2 -3 counters off each.

You have to be deadly with the basic moves to counter and really be unstoppable.

Same with Mchale. His hook and fadeaway were crazy so people sell out to contest then hes got them in the torture chamber looking like fools.

Hakeem assumes his guys have his level of basics....and they dont. But who pays 50K to be taught a jump hook?

You pay Hakeem you wanna learn the dream shake and counters.

So he gives them what they want.

He should have a two part course....they shouldnt even get to work with him till Pete Newells bigman camp people get done with them. I think Petes kids run it now....

[Smoke117]

This is such a stupid question. Just because you learn from a guy doesn't mean you can be as good as him. Working with Hakeem Olajuwon for a month or two isn't going to automatically make you a dominant post player. :rolleyes: This isn't a video game where you go train with a character and you master a new skill. Players have different strengths and weaknesses.

[hiphopanonymous]

This is such a stupid question. Just because you learn from a guy doesn't mean you can be as good as him. Working with Hakeem Olajuwon for a month or two isn't going to automatically make you a dominant post player. :rolleyes: This isn't a video game where you go train with a character and you master a new skill. Players have different strengths and weaknesses.
You learn what you need to practice from him - I don't think their brains and ability to absorb his lessons are limited to the vacuum of the time they spent with him he's trying to teach them how to fish not catch fish for them. They should have etched his lessons in their minds for the rest of their lives then religiously practiced them for years following.

Even if the most important bits are what Kblaze said which is the basic stuff first. He probably did go over the basics with them. But he probably went over every single basic to advanced move with equal time and ended his lessons on the advanced stuff (which they probably weren't ready for) and maybe didn't emphasize the importance of the basic ones first. That's all I can guess, because to be honest I didn't see drastic improvement out of most of his students. Even Hakeem said something along the lines of only Kobe picked up on what he was trying to teach

[Smoke117]

You learn what you need to practice from him - I don't think their brains and ability to absorb his lessons are limited to the vacuum of the time they spent with him he's trying to teach them how to fish not catch fish for them. They should have etched his lessons in their minds for the rest of their lives then religiously practiced them for years following.

Even if the most important bits are what Kblaze said which is the basic stuff first. He probably did go over the basics with them. But he probably went over every single basic to advanced move with equal time and ended his lessons on the advanced stuff (which they probably weren't ready for) and maybe didn't emphasize the importance of the basic ones first. That's all I can guess, because to be honest I didn't see drastic improvement out of most of his students. Even Hakeem said something along the lines of only Kobe picked up on what he was trying to teach

Actually, Dwight was training with Dream summer and late 2010 during the 2011 season and that was when he put up a career high 23ppg.

[hiphopanonymous]

Actually, Dwight was training with Dream summer and late 2010 during the 2011 season and that was when he put up a career high 23ppg.
Yes but he never got fluid in the post... got slightly more comfortable back to the basket but was still largely pick and roll and face-up dependent. Got stripped a lot down low which goes back to one of the nuances I mentioned how he never seems to pocket or protect the ball the same way Hakeem does. Has many moving parts to his movements that might also contribute to his turnovers in the post maybe his defenders read the ball well because while he's busy trying to shoulder fake he forgot to take the ball with him. Dunno, it's a visual thing. Most of Hakeems students, Dwight included, never got smooth.

[Round Mound]

Hakeem's foot quickness was MJ-like. Its almost impossible for a dude 6'10 and over can do what he did. He was insane. Him and Kevin McHale are most skilled post players ever.

[Poetry]

Is it because they can't duplicate what he did? Is it proof that there are some things you just can't teach or learn in basketball? Such as talent? In his case maybe a natural wiring of coordination and timing that only he could possess?

Hakeem grew up playing soccer. He was a goalie, so he developed both advanced footwork and shot blocking.