In Basketball terms Michael Jordan is the Sun - Everything revolves around him

[Walk on Water]

You talk about how Lebron is this assist and rebound machine. When Jordan had to play the more dominant role he averaged 32.5 points and 8 rebounds, and 8 assists. So he proved he can get 8 rebounds and 8 assists while leading the league in scoring.

Then he averaged 31.5 points for his career on the Bulls. That

[3ball]

You talk about how Lebron is this assist and rebound machine. When Jordan had to play the more dominant role he averaged 32.5 points and 8 rebounds, and 8 assists. So he proved he can get 8 rebounds and 8 assists while leading the league in scoring.

Then he averaged 31.5 points for his career on the Bulls. That’s more than 4 points higher than Lebron’s current career average. Jordan didn’t need the extra 1 or 2 rebounds an assists. What is he supposed to do? Play off the ball less so he could stat pad and get an extra 2 assists?

But the point I’m making is Jordan already proved he can get more than 7 rebounds and assists when he wants to. But rings don’t care about those numbers
Great thread

MJ proved he could play Lebron/Harden-ball, and it proved more dominant than theirs - lebron/harden never took a low seed to a deep playoff run or 6 games with the champs

[PP34Deuce]

[QUOTE=Walk on Water]You talk about how Lebron is this assist and rebound machine. When Jordan had to play the more dominant role he averaged 32.5 points and 8 rebounds, and 8 assists. So he proved he can get 8 rebounds and 8 assists while leading the league in scoring.

Then he averaged 31.5 points for his career on the Bulls. That

[Vino24]

imagine if Jordan was capable of this :eek:
https://pics.me.me/leading-everyone-in-everything-lebron-james-in-nba-finals-finals-11327105.png

[paksat]

Needed MJ more than ever

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dx4XRUIdqHY

[SpaceJam]

Was that the season Jordan and the Bulls were tied 2-2 with the NBA Champs in the Eastern Conference Finals and MJ threw the game by attempting a merely 8 field goal attempts?

[3ball]

leading-everyone-in-everything-lebron-james


That approach loses more than being the goat scorer, and actually requires equal scoring contributions from sidekicks to win..

MJ's approach allowed the sidekick to do less (score 10-20 less).. and MJ led the bulls in assists most playoff runs, so his sidekick only needs to get defensive boards, which forwards do anyway

[Vino24]

That approach loses more than being the goat scorer, and actually requires equal scoring contributions from sidekicks to win..

MJ's approach allowed the sidekick to do less (score 10-20 less).. and MJ led the bulls in assists most playoff runs, so mj's approach only makes his sidekick get defensive boards, which forwards do anyway
The thing is that year required LeBron to carry the biggest load ever while simultaneously elevating teammates. Goat teamwork

[3ball]

The thing is that year required LeBron to carry the biggest load ever while simultaneously elevating teammates. Goat teamwork
If that were true he'd be a lot better than 3/9

3/9 proves that it was a fluke, where Kyrie hit the shot and Dray got suspended - one-offs that enabled victory.. heck, we know lebron ain't hittin' the last shot in the championship

Again, lebron's ball-dominant assists are easily replaced by ball movement, and he sacrifices perimeter defense for interior rebounds.. this normally loses in the championship, but even bad teams win once in a while, 3/9

[andgar923]

imagine if Jordan was capable of this :eek:
https://pics.me.me/leading-everyone-in-everything-lebron-james-in-nba-finals-finals-11327105.png

Because he has the ball more.. it's that simple.

MJ was also double and triple teamed while Bron literally gets single coverage for most of his career.

MJ also played in a team and offence that allowed for more ball movement. So his passes didn't directly lead to a shot. His passes usually led to another pass as the Triangle was more ball movement oriented and inclusive. Whereas Bron turns people into spot up shooters and his ball dominant style of play takes away time off the clock and forces less passing.

And MJ actually played GOAT level defence.

[SamuraiSWISH]

The goat did goat things.

That’s with only playing the last 20 or so games as a point combo guard. Where he brought the ball up and dominated the rock / time of possession and made all decisions.

Now just extrapolate that for an entire season or career of ball dominance and high usage rate like Westbitch, Harden and Le3/9, but with elite perimeter defense.

Instead he was trying to win, was more selfless, allowed other people to touch the ball, and became a high-volume scorer and play finisher.

[paksat]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G7fXMbgJgMM

it's ok

[egokiller]

Lebron in the playoffs averages more activity all around.

MJ never had the freedom of playing with a 27 ppg finals performer. He also never had a teammate put up 40+ ppg on 71.5% in a finals game.

He did so much more with so much less help.

[3ball]

MJ had to be the league's top scorer and 1st team all-defense for all his rings.. i.e. harden + 1st team defense

That's bigger than any burden lebron ever had - even in 1998, MJ was scoring champ and #4 in dpoy voting

And only MJ carried this burden - MJ is the only perimeter player that was scoring champ while winning a ring (6 times)

[ImKobe]

30.4/9.2/10.7/2.5 in 24 games as a PG, averaged 35/7/8 in the POs.

He was also close to a 50 pt triple-double in many games that season.

MJ's career numbers would look a lot better in a different system.

[Bronbron23]

[QUOTE=SamuraiSWISH]The goat did goat things.

That

[Da_Realist]

30.4/9.2/10.7/2.5 in 24 games as a PG, averaged 35/7/8 in the POs.

He was also close to a 50 pt triple-double in many games that season.

MJ's career numbers would look a lot better in a different system.

His numbers would have been astronomical. Remember he also led the league in steals 3 times and had 2 seasons of 200 steals/100 blocks.

But he wouldn't have won like he did if he continued to play such a ball-dominant role. Not back then. It's only because that style failed to win a championship that MJ evolved into the ultimate offensive weapon we know him as today.

It is easier to win playing that way today. I don't think MJ would have been quite as great if he played today because he would have been stuck in late 80's mode his whole career -- winning titles here and there. We may never have seen the complete arsenal that MJ displayed in the 90's because the game wouldn't have forced it out of him.

[AngelEyes]

Michael Jordan is the biggest name in basketball and probably always will be. He's also probably the biggest, most popular athlete in the history of team sports in North America. As great and as influential as LeBron James has been even he can't really measure up to Jordan. Every argument starts with MJ,when fans and the media compare a great NBA player or any great athlete to legends, Jordan is always the name that comes up. He's the standard and he'll continue to be the standard even after LeBron retires. When LeBron ultimately hangs it up I think his reputation will be similar to Wilt, except he'll be more highly regarded. He will have a segment of fans and media members that will believe he's the best ever but the general opinion of the public will be that he ultimately lies in the 2-5 range, falling just short of the mountaintop.

[sdot_thadon]

Michael Jordan is the biggest name in basketball and probably always will be. He's also probably the biggest, most popular athlete in the history of team sports in North America. As great and as influential as LeBron James has been even he can't really measure up to Jordan. Every argument starts with MJ,when fans and the media compare a great NBA player or any great athlete to legends, Jordan is always the name that comes up. He's the standard and he'll continue to be the standard even after LeBron retires. When LeBron ultimately hangs it up I think his reputation will be similar to Wilt, except he'll be more highly regarded. He will have a segment of fans and media members that will believe he's the best ever but the general opinion of the public will be that he ultimately lies in the 2-5 range, falling just short of the mountaintop.
I'd just wait and see how things play out 1st personally, and I'm a fan of both so i won't be bothered either way.

[Mr. Jabbar]

Kobe = Mercury (closest to the sun)
Bill Russell = Saturn (most rings)
Lebron = Pluto (not even a planet anymore)

[Akeem34TheDream]

He was just a basketball player and he retired(3 times). You gotta move on with your life.

[jstern]

The sun is 98.8 to 98.9% of the total mass of the entire solar system. Planets, asteroids, dust, etc. Some speculate that mercury used to be a gas giant, due to having a little bit less craters than the moon, and that Jordan eventually stripped away its atmosphere due to mercury being so close to it.

Despite its mass, it's mostly empty space.

[LoneyROY7]

He was just a basketball player and he retired(3 times). You gotta move on with your life.

This so f*cking much. :oldlol: :oldlol:

[72-10]

He was just a basketball player and he retired(3 times). You gotta move on with your life.

interesting take

[bullettooth]

Kobe = Mercury (closest to the sun)
Bill Russell = Saturn (most rings)
Lebron = Pluto (not even a planet anymore)

:cheers:

[Rico2016]

Don't you mean everybody surpasses him?

Rings: Bill Russell
Stats: Bron

Yikes

[bullettooth]

Don't you mean everybody surpasses him?

Rings: Bill Russell
Stats: Bron

Yikes

If there was a donut shaped planet, that'd be LeBron; a fat ZERO. 6 losses earns you that title. Glorified loser.

[SamuraiSWISH]

What’s a king or a serpent to a God?

[SamuraiSWISH]

Don't you mean everybody surpasses him?

Rings: Bill Russell
Stats: Bron

Yikes
Using the accumulative stats theory of yours LOL ...

Thar means Karl Malone and Kobe Bryant are better than Michael Jordan?

Interesting.

One of them was defeated by MJ in two straight finals. Proving he was the superior player.

The other? A coverband 85% version of the man himself.

[Walk on Water]

Lebron in the playoffs averages more activity all around.


I already proved to you that Jordan could do Lebron ball but average more points.

So are you saying Jordan should tell his teammates to let him do more passing so he could stat pad some extra assists?

[Walk on Water]

imagine if Jordan was capable of this :eek:
https://pics.me.me/leading-everyone-in-everything-lebron-james-in-nba-finals-finals-11327105.png


What happened against KD?

[jstern]

Yes, Jordan should had played off the ball less, dominate the ball more for more stats, even though it will lead to less team success, less championships.

The game now is judged on spreadsheets.

[Rolando]

Kobe = Mercury (closest to the sun)
Bill Russell = Saturn (most rings)
Lebron = Pluto (not even a planet anymore)

:roll: :cheers: :applause:

[Mask the Embiid]

Kobe = Mercury (closest to the sun)

its really sad what the kobe family has turned into.9 years ago they would never bow to jordan.They would never call any player better than kobe.I guess those last 5 or 6 years really broke them :( .Now they are nothing but stand up comedians.Going from player to player, trying to cling onto any relevance since kobe is freefallin' down the rankings because of harden,westbrook,durant,giannis,curry,ect


Wonder if that will happen with the lebron or dingo family.....probably not :lol

will never put a guy who played in the stone age over someone who plays now.Wing players shooting 11% from 3 winning rings :oldlol: not being allowed to play zone defense :roll:

[paksat]

He was just a basketball player and he retired(3 times). You gotta move on with your life.


perhaps I should watch the GOAT l39ron james on tv today

maybe james floppin from the rockets to satisfy my bball needs










































































oh wait :roll:

[Nikola_]

On Pluto gravity is 3/9 of one on Earth.

[Overdrive]

Don't you mean everybody surpasses him?

Rings: Bill Russell
Stats: Bron

Yikes

Wilt surpasses Lebron in stats, so it's either Russell or him.

[Mr. Jabbar]

its really sad what the kobe family has turned into.9 years ago they would never bow to jordan.They would never call any player better than kobe.I guess those last 5 or 6 years really broke them :( .Now they are nothing but stand up comedians.Going from player to player, trying to cling onto any relevance since kobe is freefallin' down the rankings because of harden,westbrook,durant,giannis,curry,ect


Wonder if that will happen with the lebron or dingo family.....probably not :lol

will never put a guy who played in the stone age over someone who plays now.Wing players shooting 11% from 3 winning rings :oldlol: not being allowed to play zone defense :roll:

Your lack of knowledge about the familias is disturbing. Please study the ISH lore before writing this stuff again..

[egokiller]

I'd just wait and see how things play out 1st personally, and I'm a fan of both so i won't be bothered either way.

There's nothing to play out. We've seen enough of what MJ did and we've seen enough of what LeBron didn't do and could not do. Nothing LeBron does from this point on can make up for what he hasn't done.

Writing is on the wall

[Big164]

Kobe = Mercury (closest to the sun)
Bill Russell = Saturn (most rings)
Lebron = Pluto (not even a planet anymore)
:roll:


Chamberlain = Jupiter ( Biggest And baddest Planet with the most records in the SolarSystem)

Steph = Venus ( A Bright Beige object thats always getting overlooked)

[superduper]

its really sad what the kobe family has turned into.9 years ago they would never bow to jordan.They would never call any player better than kobe.I guess those last 5 or 6 years really broke them :( .Now they are nothing but stand up comedians.Going from player to player, trying to cling onto any relevance since kobe is freefallin' down the rankings because of harden,westbrook,durant,giannis,curry,ect


Wonder if that will happen with the lebron or dingo family.....probably not :lol

will never put a guy who played in the stone age over someone who plays now.Wing players shooting 11% from 3 winning rings :oldlol: not being allowed to play zone defense

Bruh the Bran fam been crashing the last 6 months, LeGOAT has been getting hard exposed.

Only 3.5 more years to go :roll: :roll: :roll:

[Psileas]

:roll:


Chamberlain = Jupiter ( Biggest And baddest Planet with the most records in the SolarSystem)

Steph = Venus ( A Bright Beige object thats always getting overlooked)

Chamberlain isn't a friggen' planet. He's a hypergiant. His records swallow the whole "solar system" combined.

[k0kakw0rld]

No way he is still at 30.1 if he did not quit the NBA, for the Baseball minor leagues. :facepalm

This brother skipped 4 seasons in total.

So please, when you come at me with confidence saying things like: "MJ's career ppg is more impressive than LeBron passing him in career total points." think twice before you say it.

Like what the fvck do you mean? :biggums:
Meanwhile others played with injuries throughout their careers. Other never cheated the game, others played 20+ seasons, exhausting their bodies and sacrificing their stats for the better of the future of their franchise.

Players like Duncan, Wilt, Kareem etc...

Look what happened to the Bulls post Jordan :oldlol: His selfish ass screwed them so bad. They haven't reached a final in 20+ years :applause:

[knicksman]

and this is why bron stans are generally dumber than kobe stans.

[SouBeachTalents]

It's 31.5 without the Wizards years. Absolutely no reason to think Jordan's career ppg drops below 30 if he plays full seasons at 31/32

[Phoenix]

If he had stayed retired from 98 he'd have a 31.5 average. And if you want to go further, his second year injury season threw off his averages as well. The Wizards years ****ed both his PPG and efficiency numbers.

[Phoenix]

It's 31.5 without the Wizards years. Absolutely no reason to think Jordan's career ppg drops below 30 if he plays full seasons at 31/32

He avg 33ppg at 30. It's reasonable to assume anywhere from 30-32 the following seasons and Scottie prob would have had something like his 92 season numbers (21/7/7).

[AngelEyes]

No way he is still at 30.1 if he did not quit the NBA, for the Baseball minor leagues. :facepalm

This brother skipped 4 seasons in total.

So please, when you come at me with confidence saying things like: "MJ's career ppg is more impressive than LeBron passing him in career total points." think twice before you say it.

Like what the fvck do you mean? :biggums:
Meanwhile others played with injuries throughout their careers. Other never cheated the game, others played 20+ seasons, exhausting their bodies and sacrificing their stats for the better of the future of their franchise.

Players like Duncan, Wilt, Kareem etc...

Look what happened to the Bulls post Jordan :oldlol: His selfish ass screwed them so bad. They haven't reached a final in 20+ years :applause:


This is one of the dumber posts in recent memory. If anything Jordan's PPG would be much higher if he did not retire in 1993 and did not come back for the 02 and 03 seasons. Jordan was at the peak of his powers when he retired initially in 93'. He left two all time great seasons on the table. It's easily conceivable that Jordan would have averaged at least 30 ppg in 94 and 95, and probably considerably more. He averaged 32.6 in 93' before his first retirement. After Jordan retired the 2nd time after the 98' season his career scoring average was 31.5. Had Jordan played through the 94 and 95 seasons and not returned for the 02 and 03 seasons as a 38-40 year old his career scoring average would have likely exceeded 32 points per game.

[k0kakw0rld]

If he had stayed retired from 98 he'd have a 31.5 average. And if you want to go further, his second year injury season threw off his averages as well. The Wizards years ****ed both his PPG and efficiency numbers.
We know that, and that is the reason why my point is valid. So, no I am not going to glorify him for skipping seasons. We can say the same thing for Wilt.
If Wilf would've kept the same mentality that he had starting his NBA career. Which is dominate at all cost. He would've averaged 35 ppg or 40 ppg. Right? :confusedshrug:

[Phoenix]

We know that, and that is the reason why my point is valid. So, no I am not going to glorify him for skipping seasons. We can say the same thing for Wilt.
If Wilf would've kept the same mentality that he had starting his NBA career. Which is dominate at all cost. He would've averaged 35 ppg or 40 ppg. Right? :confusedshrug:

I don't recall glorifying anything. MJ didn't 'need' to come back at 39 except to scratch some competitive itch. For all purposes his career as we knew him ended as a Bull at 35 and 13 seasons. The only thing the 02 and 03 seasons did was extend his career totals but reduced his averages. That's not an excuse, that's simply the reality of what happened and that's the manner in which I made my point.

No-one is debating Wilt couldn't have had a higher average had he retained that same mindset throughout so not sure why you're shrugging as if I made some counter-point to that.

[k0kakw0rld]

This is one of the dumber posts in recent memory. If anything Jordan's PPG would be much higher if he did not retire in 1993 and did not come back for the 02 and 03 seasons. Jordan was at the peak of his powers when he retired initially in 93'. He left two all time great seasons on the table. It's easily conceivable that Jordan would have averaged at least 30 ppg in 94 and 95, and probably considerably more. He averaged 32.6 in 93' before his first retirement. After Jordan retired the 2nd time after the 98' season his career scoring average was 31.5. Had Jordan played through the 94 and 95 seasons and not returned for the 02 and 03 seasons as a 38-40 year old his career scoring average would have likely exceeded 32 points per game.
The less years, the better your stats will look like (a la Bird) Larry legend averages 24 ppg 11 rpg 6 apg for a career played only 13 seasons.

[AngelEyes]

The less years, the better your stats will look like (a la Bird) Larry legend averages 24 ppg 11 rpg 6 apg for a career played only 13 seasons.

Jordan sacrificed 2 prime years for two years in his late 30's/early 40's. Had he not done that his averages would be even greater, not worse, that's the point.

[Phoenix]

Reality is we don't know what the alternate timeline for MJ's career would have been had he not retired in 94 and 3/4 of 95. Maybe he retires in 98 for good because the Bulls dynasty was going to break up anyway, and there's no way he's doing a rebuilding project in 99( at 36 years old) under Tim Floyd and whoever was on the team after its core was gutted.

[Rico2016]

imagine if Jordan was capable of this :eek:
https://pics.me.me/leading-everyone-in-everything-lebron-james-in-nba-finals-finals-11327105.png

Wow what a generational talent. The goat :eek:

[k0kakw0rld]

Jordan sacrificed 2 prime years for two years in his late 30's/early 40's. Had he not done that his averages would be even greater, not worse, that's the point.
How about when he was 35-36-37? :confusedshrug:

[Skip_Bayless]

They still don't realize that no one values the opinion of someone who never saw MJ play when discussing whether or not MJ is GOAT.

[AngelEyes]

How about when he was 35-36-37? :confusedshrug:

He turned 35 during the 98' season. He was 35 years old when he hit the game winning jump shot to win his sixth NBA championship.

[k0kakw0rld]

They still don't realize that no one values the opinion of someone who never saw MJ play when discussing whether or not MJ is GOAT.
So you only watched his era and LeBron's. Just like people who just watched LeBron era. Just like people watched Kareem's and Wilt's era.

So basically how the **** you know Jordan is the GOAT since you haven' paid close attention to other greats era? :confusedshrug:

[k0kakw0rld]

He turned 35 during the 98' season. He was 35 years old when he hit the game winning jump shot to win his sixth NBA championship.
You know what I am talking about, stop playing dumb.

[AngelEyes]

You know what I am talking about, stop playing dumb.

How about we compare the pace of play from Jordan's second three peat from 96-98 to the pace of play in the 2010's. I wonder how much the increased pace of play of this decade has inflated averages. . .

[Skip_Bayless]

So you only watched his era and LeBron's. Just like people who just watched LeBron era. Just like people watched Kareem's and Wilt's era.

So basically how the **** you know Jordan is the GOAT since you haven' paid close attention to other greats era? :confusedshrug:

Because I actually listened to people talking in real life back about the topic instead of basing my opinion on limited information. I did the exact thing you SHOULD be doing instead of acting like a typical LeGBT stan that thinks the guy he saw is GOAT because that's all he saw and that's all he knows. :oldlol:

The guys that saw Russel, Wilt, Jordan and KAJ would talk about this shit when I was a kid with my dad in the barbershop. All these old guys talking about how MJ was the GOAT and this was after his first 3 peat. They saw ALL of those other players and even though they WANTED their guy to be the GOAT, they had no choice but to admit MJ was the best they ever witnessed. And this was BEFORE MJ even begun his 2nd 3 peat. This wasn't just one time discussion, it was every fvcking time. All those old guys WANTED to be like Mike, just like the kids my age at the time wanted. The NBA revolved around MJ after his 1st 3 peat in the eyes of those who saw all the past greats, and it STILL revolves around him today. I'm able to take their opinion, combine it with my opinion based on what I've seen, and the answer is clear. No opinion from someone who only saw LeBron will change that.

[k0kakw0rld]

Because I actually listened to people talking in real life back about the topic instead of basing my opinion on limited information. I did the exact thing you SHOULD be doing instead of acting like a typical LeGBT stan that thinks the guy he saw is GOAT because that's all he saw and that's all he knows. :oldlol:

The guys that saw Russel, Wilt, Jordan and KAJ would talk about this shit when I was a kid with my dad in the barbershop. All these old guys talking about how MJ was the GOAT and this was after his first 3 peat. They saw ALL of those other players and even though they WANTED their guy to be the GOAT, they had no choice but to admit MJ was the best they ever witnessed. And this was BEFORE MJ even begun his 2nd 3 peat. This wasn't just one time discussion, it was every fvcking time. All those old guys WANTED to be like Mike, just like the kids my age at the time wanted. The NBA revolved around MJ after his 1st 3 peat in the eyes of those who saw all the past greats, and it STILL revolves around him today. No opinion from someone who only saw LeBron will change that.
What's funny is that even the "All time greats" take offence to MJ being called the unanimous GOAT. Especially when rules changed to accommodate him. Jordan was the league at the time and there was no way Stern was going to risk losing his "biggest star" over "bully ball".

[Manny98]

Because I actually listened to people talking in real life back about the topic instead of basing my opinion on limited information. I did the exact thing you SHOULD be doing instead of acting like a typical LeGBT stan that thinks the guy he saw is GOAT because that's all he saw and that's all he knows. :oldlol:

The guys that saw Russel, Wilt, Jordan and KAJ would talk about this shit when I was a kid with my dad in the barbershop. All these old guys talking about how MJ was the GOAT and this was after his first 3 peat. They saw ALL of those other players and even though they WANTED their guy to be the GOAT, they had no choice but to admit MJ was the best they ever witnessed. And this was BEFORE MJ even begun his 2nd 3 peat. This wasn't just one time discussion, it was every fvcking time. All those old guys WANTED to be like Mike, just like the kids my age at the time wanted. The NBA revolved around MJ after his 1st 3 peat in the eyes of those who saw all the past greats, and it STILL revolves around him today. I'm able to take their opinion, combine it with my opinion based on what I've seen, and the answer is clear. No opinion from someone who only saw LeBron will change that.
Just because you saw a player live and others didn't doesn't make your opinion any more valid or legitimate

LeBron is a better all around player than anyone ever that is a fact Jordan was a scorer but LeBron had the complete package the perfect basketball player

[AngelEyes]

What's funny is that even the "All time greats" take offence to MJ being called the unanimous GOAT. Especially when rules changed to accommodate him. Jordan was the league at the time and there was no way Stern was going to risk losing his "biggest star" over "bully ball".

Hand checking and any semblance of physicality on defense was outlawed post Jordan. Players like LeBron James have benefited from this massively. What rules changes did Jordan benefit from? He was consistently mugged in the 80's and 90's on drives to the basket, fouls which would never occur today because they would result in flagrants and ejections. It's embarrassing how easy it is to get to the basket in today's game because all of the advantages are given to the offensive player.

[Skip_Bayless]

What's funny is that even the "All time greats" take offence to MJ being called the unanimous GOAT. Especially when rules changed to accommodate him. Jordan was the league at the time and there was no way Stern was going to risk losing his "biggest star" over "bully ball".

Even MJ says he doesn't consider himself the GOAT. It's called humility, something that LeBron never had because that fvcktard made the mistake of calling himself the GOAT and then got crucified for it. I mean how dumb could he possibly be. The low IQ guy never understood that it's the fans who determine who is GOAT, not the players and the actual fans that saw them all play had MJ as GOAT. Those guys passed on and we took what they said, combined it with watching the players that came after, and determined MJ is GOAT.

This really isn't that hard of a thing to understand. Not sure why you are having problems "getting it".

[AngelEyes]

Just because you saw a player live and others didn't doesn't make your opinion any more valid or legitimate

LeBron is a better all around player than anyone ever that is a fact Jordan was a scorer but LeBron had the complete package the perfect basketball player

The perfect basketball player does not take years off from playing defense. Sorry, James is not perfect or even close to it. He plays in a system where he is allowed to dominate the ball and he plays in an era where all of the advantages are given to the offense and none to the defense, also one where the pace of play has skyrocketed. This has inflated his numbers as well as many other current players.

[Skip_Bayless]

Just because you saw a player live and others didn't doesn't make your opinion any more valid or legitimate

LeBron is a better all around player than anyone ever that is a fact Jordan was a scorer but LeBron had the complete package the perfect basketball player

MJ already showed that he could average 8 reb and 8 assists in 89. He could have done everything LeBron did and some but he instead chose to do what is needed to attain finals perfection and 6 FMVPs. LeBron didn't have the option of choosing to be like MJ because he just wasn't good enough. Instead, his method resulting in 3/9. He's not even in the conversation if we want to be honest.

And yes, people who saw players live have a much more respected opinion than those who didn't. That's just a plain fact no matter how much you wish it wasn't.

[Manny98]

Hand checking and any semblance of physicality on defense was outlawed post Jordan. Players like LeBron James have benefited from this massively. What rules changes did Jordan benefit from? He was consistently mugged in the 80's and 90's on drives to the basket, fouls which would never occur today because they would result in flagrants and ejections. It's embarrassing how easy it is to get to the basket in today's game because all of the advantages are given to the offensive player.
Jordan benefited from a shortened 3 point line

Jordan benefited from 2 expansion drafts that watered-down the overall talent of the league

He benefited from the defensive rules where you weren't allowed to enforce proper zones

I heard someone say that the rims were shorter in the 90s at one point, not sure if it's true

[Smoke117]

It's 2019. If basketball revolves around Michael Jordan for you then you mentally ill. This is absolutely true if you look at the various stans here: 3ball...just completely nuts, period, Coach...defended his dick size (suspect?) etc etc

[Skip_Bayless]

Jordan benefited from a shortened 3 point line

Jordan benefited from 2 expansion drafts that watered-down the overall talent of the league

He benefited from the defensive rules where you weren't allowed to enforce proper zones

I heard someone say that the rims were shorter in the 90s at one point, not sure if it's true

None of this matters. LeBron plays in an era where you can't even touch the offensive player without getting called a foul. Hand checking is not allowed. That alone negates anything LeBron has accomplished under those rules relative to MJ.

[Skip_Bayless]

It's 2019. If basketball revolves around Michael Jordan for you then you mentally ill. This is absolutely true if you look at the various stans here: 3ball...just completely nuts, period, Coach...defended his dick size (suspect?) etc etc

Says the guy with a closet full of Jordan's. You're not fooling anyone my Bourbon drinking friend.

[AngelEyes]

Jordan benefited from a shortened 3 point line

Jordan benefited from 2 expansion drafts that watered-down the overall talent of the league

He benefited from the defensive rules where you weren't allowed to enforce proper zones

I heard someone say that the rims were shorter in the 90s at one point, not sure if it's true

Shortened line, ok, that was only for 3 seasons, 95-97. He only played two full seasons with the shortened line. You talk about watered down league, well in 1988 Jordan's first MVP season there were only 23 teams, there are 30 teams in 2019. Also, there are more teams purposely tanking the last few seasons than ever before.

[AngelEyes]

None of this matters. LeBron plays in an era where you can't even touch the offensive player without getting called a foul. Hand checking is not allowed. That alone negates anything LeBron has accomplished under those rules relative to MJ.

This. It's just easier to score in today's game because they've outlawed physicality, it's never been more of a finesse league than this decade. All advantages are given to the offense, similar to what has happened to the NFL.

[Manny98]

None of this matters. LeBron plays in an era where you can't even touch the offensive player without getting called a foul. Hand checking is not allowed. That alone negates anything LeBron has accomplished under those rules relative to MJ.
Yes it does matter Jordan played in a weaker era so it means that his rings and accomplishments have less value compared to today

[AngelEyes]

Yes it does matter Jordan played in a weaker era so it means that his rings and accomplishments have less value compared to today

Weaker era? LeBron played the past 15 seasons in a historically weak conference. The greatest rival that era could muster was the 08' Celtics who swiftly dispatched LeBron and the Cavaliers.

[Smoke117]

Weaker era? LeBron played the past 15 seasons in a historically weak conference. The greatest rival that era could muster was the 08' Celtics who swiftly dispatched LeBron and the Cavaliers.

A 7 game series is swift?

[Rico2016]

Using the accumulative stats theory of yours LOL ...

Thar means Karl Malone and Kobe Bryant are better than Michael Jordan?

Interesting.

One of them was defeated by MJ in two straight finals. Proving he was the superior player.

The other? A coverband 85% version of the man himself.

Hmmm false

Last time I checked Jordan was #2 in playoff scoring, not behind Malone or Kobe

Maybe you should use a different website :lol

Post season leaders in scoring

1. LeBron
2. Jordan

[k0kakw0rld]

I see LeBron fans are still running this board :oldlol: :applause:

What happened to this "Sticky" thread? :confusedshrug:

[egokiller]

Finally, a thread worthy of being a sticky. :applause:

I watched a man go 6/6, never allowing a game 7 while winning 6 FMVPs. Once he molded Pippen into a good enough teammate to help him get to the finals, he never lost. So ****ing good he left the game out of boredom, then came back and shitted on all and left again. How do you let a man who's been out of the game 2 years come back and shit all over your existence and watch him win 3 years in a row... again? A repeat 3 peat? Amazing. To watch and experience that first hand? Nothing quite like it.

Let me know when someone can do at least that in this league once they start allowing teams to actually play defense again. Until then keep living vicariously through those of us who watched MJ live because everyone else after him has been rather inferior by comparison. We'll continue to throw lebald stans some crumbs every now and then dropping truth bombs so that they get a taste. :pimp:

[3ball]

Finally, a thread worthy of being a sticky. :applause:

I watched a man go 6/6, never allowing a game 7 while winning 6 FMVPs. Once he molded Pippen into a good enough teammate to help him get to the finals, he never lost. So ****ing good he left the game out of boredom, then came back and shitted on all and left again. How do you let a man who's been out of the game 2 years come back and shit all over your existence and watch him win 3 years in a row... again? A repeat 3 peat? Amazing. To watch and experience that first hand? Nothing quite like it.

Let me know when someone can do at least that in this league once they start allowing teams to actually play defense again. Until then keep living vicariously through those of us who watched MJ live because everyone else after him has been rather inferior by comparison. We'll continue to throw lebald stans some crumbs every now and then dropping truth bombs so that they get a taste. :pimp:
https://i.imgur.com/xOKMOlj.gif

[Vragrant]

NBA culture has become so obsessed with stats, that any valid criticism gets countered with ,"Are you serious? My favorite player averages 20/40/14!" Overlooking how those stats are accumulated.

Bron is a great player,but he can be quite the statpadder. I've watched him his whole career. The question between two superstars who put up big numbers when they get those stats. does he make get an offensive rebound/put back to put his team up more than 2 possessions late in the game? Can he get a key strip/block making a big defensive stand?

Whenever both players put up monster numbers its always better to look who makes the right plays at the right times. I've seen that excuse for Bron whenever he is passive/misses free throws and his fans go to the statline excuse. Its such a cop out.

[egokiller]

https://i.gifer.com/73ta.gif

[k0kakw0rld]

https://i.imgur.com/xOKMOlj.gif
How come he never reached a final without Phil and Pippen?

How come he never won against Bird?

Why did he duck the Celtics his entire career? :confusedshrug:

We want to know...

[egokiller]

How come he never won a final without Kyrie or Wade?

How come he never won against Dirk?

Why did he duck the West his entire prime? :confusedshrug:

We want to know...

:sleeping