Mindboggling Anti-vaxxers case

[bladefd]

Recently, there was a lot of talk of the highschool student getting vaccines for himself against his parents' wishes the moment he turned 18. Then he testified in front of Congress last week, begging Congress to do something before more kids died.

So yesterday, CDC reported another scary case from 2017 of a 6yr old boy who contracted tetanus..

[QUOTE][Health officials] reported the boy

[Kblaze8855]

We are all lucky we nearly eradicated smallpox and polio before these idiots spread. These clowns have kids getting Oregon trail diseases and risking everyone else. They really need their own schools. Sucks for the kids but you can

[Ben Simmons 25]

I believe in vaccines and am pro vaccine except in one case...


Flu shots.


****. That. Shit.


I’ve known too many people that get a flu shot that then get sick within a few days with... the flu. And definitely DO NOT TAKE NASAL FLU SPRAYS if you’re going to do it at all.

And every single time pharmacists and doctors tell me it’s just a coincidence but that’s straight bullshit... I saw it happen too many times. Even the most heavily pro flu vaccine people will tell you they’re just playing guessing games with which strain will be prevalent in any given year.

I’ve had zero flu shots since I was a child and I’ve maybe gotten the flu 2 or 3x max over the course of 25 years... knock on wood.

[bladefd]

I believe in vaccines and am pro vaccine except in one case...


Flu shots.


****. That. Shit.


I’ve known too many people that get a flu shot that then get sick within a few days with... the flu. And definitely DO NOT TAKE NASAL FLU SPRAYS if you’re going to do it at all.

And every single time pharmacists and doctors tell me it’s just a coincidence but that’s straight bullshit... I saw it happen too many times. Even the most heavily pro flu vaccine people will tell you they’re just playing guessing games with which strain will be prevalent in any given year.

I’ve had zero flu shots since I was a child and I’ve maybe gotten the flu 2 or 3x max over the course of 25 years... knock on wood.

Flu shots don't give you flu because the cells they inject is not activated. The nasal flu sprays are active though so you are right in that specific exception - avoid those nasal sprays. Only get the injection. I don't even know why those sprays exist - I'm guessing it's designed for people who have legit psychological fear of needles or have certain blood diseases where their blood cannot clot. For everyone else though, stick to injections. It's just a pinch..

Flu vaccination effectiveness varies from year to year, yes. I don't see that as a valid reason to avoid flu shots though.. They don't cost much at all (insurances pay for flu shots) and have no side-effects. Maybe minor soreness for 24-48hrs, but it's very minor inconvenience. I have been getting them each year and never gotten the flu.

[Overdrive]

[QUOTE=Ben Simmons 25]I believe in vaccines and am pro vaccine except in one case...


Flu shots.


****. That. Shit.


I

[bladefd]

You're getting a cold, not the flu because your immune system is weakend for a week by the shot. Get the shot before flu/cold season if possible.

Colds are different from flu. Both are viral afaik, but a flu shot cannot lead to a cold, if that's what you are implying. The two are very different.


Going back to bensimmons25- People feel a little soreness, body aches, minor fever in rare circumstances after getting a flu shot, and they assume they got the flu. But that's not getting the flu. It's just an immune system response getting into combat mode

[Ben Simmons 25]

No... they've literally gotten the flu. Like been out of work for over a week level flu. Not just minor symptoms.

The nasal spray contains a live flu virus... which is why if you're going to do it you should get the needle.

I directly worked with probably around 1000 people over the course of a decade... and I'm telling you... no, it wasn't everyone, of course not, but a significant portion of flu shots resulted in the flu... especially nasal sprays. Like maybe 15 or 20%, I don't know. I didn't keep a tally.

I just know I'd rather get the flu once every 5 to 8 years than give myself even a 10% chance of getting it annually as the result of a ****ing shot.

And yes the sprays are designed for people that are terrified of needles.

Since I started taking vitamin C supplements, I haven't been sick in over 2 years with even as little as a cold, so there's that.

[bladefd]

No... they've literally gotten the flu. Like been out of work for over a week level flu. Not just minor symptoms.

The nasal spray contains a live flu virus... which is why if you're going to do it you should get the needle.

I directly worked with probably around 1000 people over the course of a decade... and I'm telling you... no, it wasn't everyone, of course not, but a significant portion of flu shots resulted in the flu... especially nasal sprays. Like maybe 15 or 20%, I don't know. I didn't keep a tally.

I just know I'd rather get the flu once every 5 to 8 years than give myself even a 10% chance of getting it annually as the result of a ****ing shot.

And yes the sprays are designed for people that are terrified of needles.

Since I started taking vitamin C supplements, I haven't been sick in over 2 years with even as little as a cold, so there's that.

You have your information wrong then. Regular needle-based flu vacines cannot under any circumstances cause the flu.

So let me explain how viruses work.

In order for you to get flu from a flu shot, the virus cells have to be able to replicate. Viruses don't replicate through mitosis like bacteria, but they essentially infect and hijack other cells. These hijacked cells burst, releasing more viruses to infect other cells, spreading through the body.

In order for the virus to infect the original cell, the virus has to be alive. Needle-based flu vaccines don't have living viruses. It is scientifically impossible to get flu from needle-based flu shots.

One possible reason is perhaps the person already had living flu cells in body around the same time as getting the flu vaccine (bit like autistic kids being diagnosed the same time as getting the vaccines so parents assume it must have been the vaccines rather than that they already had it). Or they think they have the flu when it could be any number of things, including the common cold - this is sometimes the problem with individuals self-diagnosing at times and assuming things.

Now the sprays can because they use both live and dead virus cells. Do not get those. The way they are created is very different from injection based flu shots.

As for getting a flu shot every 5-6 years.. It is not even worth it to wait that long between flu shots because all of these viruses are constantly evolving from year to year. Hell, there have been cases of it evolving within a single season, but usually annually from season to season. To wait 5-6 years, it is pretty much pointless to even bother getting one.

I used to think the same way about vitamin c, so I did some research to see what science studies have shown. Studies have been inconclusive. Some studies say it might lessen symptoms by a very slim margin of 5-10%, while others show it is not any more effective than placebo. So it's not enough to actually make a significant difference, if there is any difference at all.

[Overdrive]

Colds are different from flu. Both are viral afaik, but a flu shot cannot lead to a cold, if that's what you are implying. The two are very different.


No that's not what I'm implying. A flu shot occupies your immune system. So it has a harder time getting rid of a cold.

A heavy cold can take up to two weeks and lead to flu like symptoms just like a real influenza, in my language it's called flulike infection. Without testing even a doctor can't tell.

You can't get certain influenza from a influenza shot. Their problem is that they don't have any strain at hand.

[bladefd]

No that's not what I'm implying. A flu shot occupies your immune system. So it has a harder time getting rid of a cold.

A heavy cold can take up to two weeks and lead to flu like symptoms just like a real influenza, in my language it's cold flulike infection. Without testing even a doctor can't tell.

You can't get certain influenza from a influenza shot. Their problem is that they don't have any strain at hand.

Perhaps that is why most doctors recommend getting the flu shot in October before cold season goes into effect. People often confuse cold symptoms with the flu because the two often do have same or similar symptoms. Ultimately, you still can't get flu from injected flu vaccine because they don't contain any living strain like you said. It only contains dead viral cells unless if you get the nasal flu spray.

[Overdrive]

Perhaps that is why most doctors recommend getting the flu shot in October before cold season goes into effect. People often confuse cold symptoms with the flu because the two often do have same or similar symptoms. Ultimately, you still can't get flu from injected flu vaccine because they don't contain any living strain like you said. It only contains dead viral cells unless if you get the nasal flu spray.

We don't even have those sprays over here. But it can happen that you get a shot against 5 strains and acquire the the 6th and get the real flu. I personally don't get the shots, because it doesn't really matter. If you don't have a strong immune system you get sick in the winter.

[RoseCity07]

These people should go live in the mountains and stay away from civilization if they believe their stupid bullshit.

[Stephonit]

All medicines have the potential to be harmful. It's always a risk-reward proposition. For the most common vaccines it's usually worth it but I have to agree with the negative opinion on flu vaccines. Medical practitioners understate the potential negative side effects and its practical usefulness is debatable.

[Nanners]

Me and my family are basically fully vaccinated (aside from non essential stuff like HPV and flu shots), but I am vehemently opposed to any suggestion of "forced" vaccinations

Any kind of mandatory medical treatment violates "informed consent" (a concept which is kind of like medical version of free speech). The basic idea is that no medical treatment should ever be performed without the patient understanding and consenting to the treatment. The main reason you have to sign a million different forms in order to get any kind of major medical treatment in the US is because of this concept of informed consent.

[Overdrive]

Me and my family are basically fully vaccinated (aside from non essential stuff like HPV and flu shots), but I am vehemently opposed to any suggestion of "forced" vaccinations

Any kind of mandatory medical treatment violates "informed consent" (a concept which is kind of like medical version of free speech). The basic idea is that no medical treatment should ever be performed without the patient understanding and consenting to the treatment. The main reason you have to sign a million different forms in order to get any kind of major medical treatment in the US is because of this concept of informed consent.

Problem with measels is that it's harmful to society. Even if you seperate those unvaccinated people there's a chance the measels evolve and a resistent strain is created

I don't care for tetanus or stuff like that, but measels should be mandatory.

[Loco 50]

The idea behind the flu shot is that the overlap between strains is enough that even if it doesn't keep you from catching the flu, it will be a less severe form.

This can mean the difference between life and death in the senior citizen population, which is why it's mandatory you get one if you work with seniors.

[bladefd]

Me and my family are basically fully vaccinated (aside from non essential stuff like HPV and flu shots), but I am vehemently opposed to any suggestion of "forced" vaccinations

Any kind of mandatory medical treatment violates "informed consent" (a concept which is kind of like medical version of free speech). The basic idea is that no medical treatment should ever be performed without the patient understanding and consenting to the treatment. The main reason you have to sign a million different forms in order to get any kind of major medical treatment in the US is because of this concept of informed consent.

What reason is there to not get vaccinated against say measles or polio? Ignorance or religious grounds or something idiotic like "BC VACCINES CAUSE AUTISM!!" is not good enough. Tons of studies have been done over whether vaccines cause autism, and nobody has ever proven that. The one study anti-vaxxers like Jenny McCartney point to was by a doctor in 90s who admitted to fraud & lost his license - he manufactured faulty numbers and results..

By not getting vaccinated against certain things like polio or measles, it can lead to hell for you and everyone else around you. Polio is not contagious but expensive and extremely debilitating. Measles is one of the most contagious things known and extremely deadly (excluding biological weapons from here because those are man-made). What good reason is there to not be vaccinated against that? We eradicated measles, mumps, polio, etc thanks to vaccines..

We have laws for helmets and seat-belts. Try using same argument here that using a helmet on a bike should be by consent. The cop will laugh in your face, and judge will laugh you out of the court-room & make you pay the ticket or strike you with contempt of the law.

[Nanners]

Problem with measels is that it's harmful to society. Even if you seperate those unvaccinated people there's a chance the measels evolve and a resistent strain is created

I don't care for tetanus or stuff like that, but measels should be mandatory.

Lots of things are harmful to society. Men who were raised in a single parent household are 10x more likely to become rapists and 20x more likely to be murderers, and over 80% of all prison inmates were raised in single families. Does that mean we should start forcing single mothers to get abortions when pregnant and put their children up for adoption? Preventing single mothers from having children would certainly make life safer for the rest of society.

Anyway measles isnt really that harmful, check out this little video showing how americans viewed measles back in the 60s before the vaccine was invented https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mDb0ZS3vB9g&list=LLHUrCbytj0zJfD8nmYOiF0w&index=4&t=7s

[Nanners]

What reason is there to not get vaccinated against say measles or polio? Ignorance or religious grounds or something idiotic like "BC VACCINES CAUSE AUTISM!!" is not good enough. Tons of studies have been done over whether vaccines cause autism, and nobody has ever proven that. The one study anti-vaxxers like Jenny McCartney point to was by a doctor in 90s who admitted to fraud & lost his license - he manufactured faulty numbers and results..

What reason is there to not get vaccinated? How about having free will?

I think you need to re-read my post because most of the idiocy in your post is completely irrelevant. Where did I say anything about autism or medical conspiracies? I said that I believe in the concept of informed consent, thats all.


By not getting vaccinated against certain things like polio or measles, it can lead to hell for you and everyone else around you. Polio is not contagious but expensive and extremely debilitating. Measles is one of the most contagious things known and extremely deadly (excluding biological weapons from here because those are man-made). What good reason is there to not be vaccinated against that? We eradicated measles, mumps, polio, etc thanks to vaccines..

Are you illiterate or just a complete ****ing idiot? Again, I didnt say a single word about reasoning for not getting vaccinated, I simply said that I think people should have the right to make that decision for themselves.


We have laws for helmets and seat-belts. Try using same argument here that using a helmet on a bike should be by consent. The cop will laugh in your face, and judge will laugh you out of the court-room & make you pay the ticket or strike you with contempt of the law.

Yeah, we do have laws for helmets and seat-belts, and we dont have laws that mandate any kind of medical treatments whatsoever... for good reason.

[Loco 50]

Lots of things are harmful to society. Men who were raised in a single parent household are 10x more likely to become rapists and 20x more likely to be murderers, and over 80% of all prison inmates were raised in single families. Does that mean we should start forcing single mothers to get abortions when pregnant and put their children up for adoption? Preventing single mothers from having children would certainly make life safer for the rest of society.

Anyway measles isnt really that harmful, check out this little video showing how americans viewed measles back in the 60s before the vaccine was invented https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mDb0ZS3vB9g&list=LLHUrCbytj0zJfD8nmYOiF0w&index=4&t=7s
God bless.

Get your kids vaccinated folks.

https://medlineplus.gov/ency/article/001419.htm

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3706451/

Understand that measles is as contagious as the common cold, meaning if someone has it, the likelihood of you or your kid getting it is extremely high because it's transmission is through the air.

If your kid catches measles he's got a 1 in 600 to 1 in 1200 chance of developing encephalitis. You don't survive encephalitis, at least not intact.

[Loco 50]

The HPV vaccine is also critical in girls, in that 80 percent of sexually active people have HPV.

No big deal right, it's just warts? Wrong HPV leads to cervical cancer, a leading killer of women until we figured out that regular screening could save lives. If those women aren't checked regularly though at least the vaccine will prevent the cancer from being able to develop in the first place.

I don't know what Nanners is on about.

[Nanners]

I don't know what Nanners is on about.

Are you an illiterate dumbshit too Loco? I thought I made it crystal clear that I am "on about" these little things called informed consent and free will.

HPV is irrelevant to me. I am not infected, I only sleep with one person, and she is not infected either.

[Loco 50]

Are you an illiterate dumbshit too Loco? I thought I made it crystal clear that I am "on about" these little things called informed consent and free will.

HPV is irrelevant to me. I am not infected, I only sleep with one person, and she is not infected either.

Why are you so belligerent? It's a f'n disease around here.

That's fine if HPV is irrelevant to you. It's not to your daughter, if you've got one.

Explain informed consent to the parent of a kid that was vaccinated that is now dying of encephalitis because some dipshit parent's "freedom of will" was protected by Nanners. FOH.

Informed consent is critical. This is a big "duh" point to anyone in the field. But when you present a danger to others the need for your consent gets mitigated.

Alcoholics get their keys taken away. Mentally unstable people get their freedom taken away. Etc Etc.

[bladefd]

What reason is there to not get vaccinated? How about having free will?

I think you need to re-read my post because most of the idiocy in your post is completely irrelevant. Where did I say anything about autism or medical conspiracies? I said that I believe in the concept of informed consent, thats all.

Yeah, you have free will to jump off a building, but you don't do it. Why? Because you know what's going to happen when you hit the ground.

Free will is not good enough reason for something as crucial and lifesaving as vaccines. Mumps is scary. Measles is scary. Polio is scary. Those are legit threats, especially to kids who lack body immunity, that I don't think we as society should overlook in name of informed consent.

I would be okay with going vaccine-by-vaccine as society (perhaps a medical committee panel of doctors), determining which vaccine should be required by law and which shouldn't, but I would not be okay with a parent use a blanket statement like "all vaccines are bad because they cause autism!"


Are you illiterate or just a complete ****ing idiot? Again, I didnt say a single word about reasoning for not getting vaccinated, I simply said that I think people should have the right to make that decision for themselves.

I didn't say those were your reasons. You already said you and your family is vaccinated and so I know you don't believe nonsense like "vaccines cause autism."

But your argument of informed consent lays the groundwork for people to use those idiotic reasons if they so wish just because they feel like it when all scientific studies, statistics and research shows something very different. Measles has begun to come back after being eradicated for decades because of ignorance/idiocy by parents. That should worry folks.


Yeah, we do have laws for helmets and seat-belts, and we dont have laws that mandate any kind of medical treatments whatsoever... for good reason.

What good reason is there when it concerns something as contagious and deadly as measles? Are you really okay with some anti-vaxxer yelling in your face "FREE WILL, B!TCH!"

I'm still waiting for a sensible reason to not get something like measles vaccine. "Because I feel like it!" is not a legit argument.

[Nanners]

Why are you so belligerent? It's a f'n disease around here.


Its "belligerent" to be annoyed by stupid jabronies who quote your post and then argue with nonsense straw men?



Explain informed consent to the parent of a kid that was vaccinated that is now dying of encephalitis because some dipshit parent's "freedom of speech" was protected by Nanners. FOH

I will happily explain the concept of informed consent to the parent of a kid who was the 1 in 1000 to die from measles... I will also repeatedly explain it to idiots like you on this message board.

[Loco 50]

Its "belligerent" to be annoyed by stupid jabronies who quote your post and then argue with nonsense straw men?




I will happily explain the concept of informed consent to the parent of a kid who was the 1 in 1000 to die from measles... I will also repeatedly explain it to idiots like you on this message board.
Read the edit, please. What straw man? Encephalitis?

That's a bummer that you have to explain your misinformation to idiots on a message board. I have to undo your horseshit with patients.

[Nanners]

Yeah, you have free will to jump off a building, but you don't do it. Why? Because you know what's going to happen when you hit the ground.

Free will is not good enough reason for something as crucial and lifesaving as vaccines. Mumps is scary. Measles is scary. Polio is scary. Those are legit threats, especially to kids who lack body immunity, that I don't think we as society should overlook in name of informed consent.

I would be okay with going vaccine-by-vaccine as society (perhaps a medical committee panel of doctors), determining which vaccine should be required by law and which shouldn't, but I would not be okay with a parent use a blanket statement like "all vaccines are bad because they cause autism!"
The point of free will isnt jumping off the building, its having the choice to jump if you really want to.

I agree that a lot of diseases are scary, like I said I am basically fully vaccinated... the difference between you and me is that I dont think that anyone (myself included) should have the right to force others to take a given vaccine or medical treatment.



I didn't say those were your reasons. You already said you and your family is vaccinated and so I know you don't believe nonsense like "vaccines cause autism."

Well forgive me for being confused by the fact that you quoted my post and then repeatedly asked "what is the reason for not getting vaccinated".


But your argument of informed consent lays the groundwork for people to use those idiotic reasons if they so wish just because they feel like it when all scientific studies, statistics and research shows something very different. Measles has begun to come back after being eradicated for decades because of ignorance/idiocy by parents. That should worry folks.

It is worrying that more and more parents are anti-vaccine, but I definitely dont think things have gotten to the point that we should be abandoning our rights. Gun violence is worrying (it kills a ****ton more people than measles), yet I dont think we should abolish the second amendment.


What good reason is there when it concerns something as contagious and deadly as measles? Are you really okay with some anti-vaxxer yelling in your face "FREE WILL, B!TCH!"

I'm still waiting for a sensible reason to not get something like measles vaccine. "Because I feel like it!" is not a legit argument.

Yes I am most definitely okay with anti-vaxxers yelling in my face and having free will. I think every human should have free will, especially when it comes to medicine.

[Nanners]

Read the edit, please. What straw man? Encephalitis?

That's a bummer that you have to explain your misinformation to idiots on a message board. I have to undo your horseshit with patients.

So when you say you have to undo my horseshit, you mean you have to convince your patients that they dont have the right to chose their own medical treatment? that they dont have sovereignty over what goes on in their own body?

[Loco 50]

Yes I am most definitely okay with anti-vaxxers yelling in my face and having free will. I think every human should have free will, especially when it comes to medicine.
Alright, taking a breath here. Apologies, interacting with Okra in another thread put me in a foul mood and it bled over to you.

Yes, free will/informed consent are incredibly important to protect in our patients.

However, as I mentioned before sometimes the patient becomes a danger to themselves or others, other measures have to be taken.

I respectfully disagree with you on the importance of vaccination if your stance remains the same despite the consequences.

Do I like the thought of forcefully vaccinating someone? No. Would I actually do it? No. Would I apply an awful lot of pressure if I think I can budge them? Yes.

[Loco 50]

So when you say you have to undo my horseshit, you mean you have to convince your patients that they dont have the right to chose their own medical treatment? that they dont have sovereignty over what goes on in their own body?
100% no.

There are ways of convincing.

[Nanners]

Alright, taking a breath here. Apologies, interacting with Okra in another thread put me in a foul mood and it bled over to you.

Yes, free will/informed consent are incredibly important to protect in our patients.

However, as I mentioned before sometimes the patient becomes a danger to themselves or others, other measures have to be taken.

I respectfully disagree with you on the importance of vaccination if your stance remains the same despite the consequences.

Do I like the thought of forcefully vaccinating someone? No. Would I actually do it? No. Would I apply an awful lot of pressure if I think I can budge them? Yes.

I apologise for being short with you as well

Its not that I dont think vaccinations are important (most of them at least), but unless a person has provable mental limitations I think that their free will should (almost) always come before public safety. IMO the only time that public safety should trump personal rights is during true emergencies.

Gun control kinda seems like a good analogy for this. Like antivaxxers, the existence of guns make society more dangerous for everyone involved. Personally I think its awful that thousands of americans are killed by gun violence each year, and I would prefer if there werent so many guns in circulation... but gun ownership is a constitutional right and ultimately unless a person is mentally unstable or making violent threats I think their rights should be respected.

[nightlight]

100% no.

There are ways of convincing.
Does it include taking your inferiority complex to a basketball message board and role-playing a doctor?

[Kblaze8855]

I agree that a lot of diseases are scary, like I said I am basically fully vaccinated... the difference between you and me is that I dont think that anyone (myself included) should have the right to force others to take a given vaccine or medical treatment.

Thing is vaccines arent you only risking yourself. Its you slowly putting all of society at risk. People out here getting diseases that are almost totally preventable and getting other peoples kids sick and risking their lives.

I dont think the law should be able to force a medical treatment onto you....but it should be able to remove you from places you can contaminate others who have no choice but to be there(schools).

There comes a point where your irresponsible decisions cant be allowed because you are possibly killing other people. Its almost like driving. If you refuse to use turn signals or stop at red lights you need to be off the roads.

You have the right to make your medical decisions...but I have a right to choose mine too. And my kids. One of those choices is not to have my kids coughed on by kids who are more likely to carry preventable diseases.

People being selfish like this would have prevented the destruction of smallpox and polio but common sense was more prevalent back then. And governments werent so squeamish about forcing things for the greater good.

A strain of small pox ever gets out all this "Its my child!" shit might take out a chunk of the human race. We are all lucky England forced vaccinations for everyone and provided them to its colonies just before airplanes came into common use and made the spread of epidemics much quicker.

We managed to get polio down from millions in the 50s, to hundreds of thousands in the 80s to 20 a year now. This anti vax shit is a threat to the human race in general and we are crazy lucky it didnt take hold earlier.

[Loco 50]

Does it include taking your inferiority complex to a basketball message board and role-playing a doctor?
:oldlol: Whatever gets you through the day my passive-aggressive little buddy.

I'll leave my life up to your imaginations.

[bladefd]

However, as I mentioned before sometimes the patient becomes a danger to themselves or others, other measures have to be taken.

That's something I would agree with.

Ignorance is not a good reason for a parent to exercise over his/her children and threaten their own well-being & livelihood, along with other kids they go to school with.

If you have the right to not vaccinate your kids in name of free-will then I also must have the right to have my vaccinated kids separated from your unvaccinated kids in all of my public schools.

[MaxFly]

It boggles my mind.. They went through ALL THAT suffering, with 6yr kid inches from death, with a bill that extreme and still refusing 2nd round of tetanus vaccine afterwards & all other vaccines.. Truth is doctors giving him first round of tetanus in ICU is probably what saved him. That $850k bill will most likely end up with the tax payers unless if the parents are rich. And the kid is still not vaccinated.

....and that's just 1 case. Number of anti-vaxxers has been on the rise annually across America the last 20yrs.

I heard about this... it should leave any thinking person flabbergasted. There will be repercussions for that family and young boy, unfortunately... likely starting with health insurance coverage.

[bladefd]

[QUOTE]Italian children have been told not to turn up to school unless they can prove they have been properly vaccinated.

The deadline follows months of national debate over compulsory vaccination.

[B]Parents risk being fined up to €500 (

[bladefd]

As New York’s Rockland County grapples with a large and lengthy outbreak of measles, a group of anti-vaccine parents sued officials for temporarily barring their unvaccinated children from school—and the county is not having it.

In a fiery response, Rockland County Attorney Thomas Humbach forcefully defended the legality of the county’s move, which was intended to thwart the spread of disease. He also went so far as to cast doubt on the validity of the religious exemptions the parents had used to opt their children out of required vaccinations.

“The [Rockland County Health] Commissioner, Dr. Patricia Ruppert, has every legal right, under New York State's Public Health Law and the County's Sanitary Code, to take every necessary step to stop the outbreak of measles in this county,” Humbach said in a statement released to the press.

“[T]he right to practice religion freely does not include liberty to expose the community or the child to communicable disease or the latter to ill health or death,” Humbach wrote. Moreover, he added, “[t]hese religious exemptions run the gamut from references to organized Christian doctrine to a generalized spirituality. As the case progresses, we expect several of the exemptions to be challenged as not evincing a sincere religious belief against vaccination.”

Rockland’s battle with measles began late last September, when an international traveler arrived with a suspected case. Since then, other international travelers have arrived in the county with the extremely infectious, sometimes-fatal disease.

In all, the county has confirmed 145 cases of measles, almost all of which are in children and teens (84 percent). That includes 22 cases (15 percent) in infants less than a year old—the age when babies can receive their first dose of vaccine against measles. Overall, around 90 percent of those infected are unvaccinated or partially vaccinated. The remaining 10 percent of infected people had an unknown vaccination status.https://arstechnica.com/science/2019/03/anti-vax-parents-sue-to-keep-unvaccinated-kids-in-school-during-outbreak/

The audacity of those anti-vaxxer parents to sue the county for barring their unvaccinated kids from attending school in a district with measles spreading.. And these f*cking idiots are citing religious freedom in said lawsuit? Unbelievable.

There needs to be a counter-suit against these anti-vaxxer parents for attempted murder on their own kids and others in that school district. Add another charge of being a culprit to the spread of measles, violating health & sanitation code, and violating their Constitutional right "to not be deprived of life" as written in amendment 5 of the bill of rights.

Then have parents with vaccinated kids co-sign onto the counter-suit. Let it go to the US Supreme Court. I bet the anti-vaxxers would lose their lawsuit.

[bladefd]

New York judge shut down (https://thehill.com/policy/healthcare/433987-new-york-judge-denies-request-to-allow-unvaccinated-students-to-return-to) the lawsuit :oldlol:

[QUOTE]A federal judge in New York denied a request on Tuesday to allow unvaccinated children to return to school.

[B]U.S. District Judge Vincent Briccetti ruled that 44 students were not allowed to return to class at Green Meadow Waldorf School in Rockland County, N.Y., citing an

[MaxFly]

New York judge shut down (https://thehill.com/policy/healthcare/433987-new-york-judge-denies-request-to-allow-unvaccinated-students-to-return-to) the lawsuit :oldlol:

There will be a lot more of this nationally where the public good outweighs personal liberties in these specific anti-vaxxer cases.

[Terahite]

OP is a dipshit who takes the mainstream corporatist point of view on every issue, from supporting Hillary Clinton to "muh anti-vaxx!". He's either a paid shill or legitimately retarded.