top 5 two way players in nba history ( aka the real top 5 players in nba history )

[kennethgriffen]

Michael Jordan ( 10 time all nba 1st team, 9 time all defensive 1st team, 1 time defensive player of the year )

Kareem Abdul Jabbar ( 10 time all nba 1st team, 5 time all defensive 1st team )

Kobe Bryant ( 11 time all nba 1st team, 9 time all defensive 1st team )

Tim Duncan ( 10 time all nba 1st team, 8 time all defensive 1st team )

Hakeem Olajuwon ( 6 time all nba 1st team, 5 time all defensive 1st team, 2 time defensive player of the year )



should this be the real top 5?


defense IS a thing right?

why do we give guys like magic/lebron a pass for not playing any defense whatsoever and russell a pass for not dominating offensively


...

[SouBeachTalents]

Wilt needs to be included

[kennethgriffen]

Wilt needs to be included


sorry... its the no chokers club

winning finals records only

https://thumbs.gfycat.com/HealthyWealthyAfricanbushviper-mobile.jpg












http://i.imgur.com/ZGWem.jpg

[SouBeachTalents]

sorry... its the no chokers club

winning finals records only

https://thumbs.gfycat.com/HealthyWealthyAfricanbushviper-mobile.jpg












http://i.imgur.com/ZGWem.jpg
He won as many titles as Hakeem, it's dumb to punish him for making 3 additional Finals

[kennethgriffen]

He won as many titles as Hakeem, it's dumb to punish him for making 3 additional Finals


nobodies punishing him for making additional finals

we punish him for going from like 30ppg down to 15ppg in the playoffs/finals and totally disappearing on more than one occasion basically the same as lebron did vs the mavs in 2011

[3ball]

sorry... its the no chokers club

winning finals records only

https://thumbs.gfycat.com/HealthyWealthyAfricanbushviper-mobile.jpg



http://i.imgur.com/ZGWem.jpg
https://i.makeagif.com/media/3-10-2019/cQYKoc.gif

[Big164]

Old Wilt was considered a better Defensive player than Peak Kareem when they both played in the same league. Shat thread...

[Rico2016]

So Kobe plays better defense than LeBron now. Interesting news to me :oldlol:

Not so fast bucko :no:

[72-10]

Pretty solid list.

I don't have much doubt that these are the nine on the top tier of greatest two-way players in the game's history, and I have tried to order them.

Michael Jordan
Hakeem Olajuwon
Wilt Chamberlain
Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
Kobe Bryant
Tim Duncan
Jerry West
David Robinson
Kevin Garnett

[Manny98]

LeBron was a DPOY runner up twice let's not act like he never played defense :facepalm

[72-10]

as for Magic, can't ignore his ridiculous steals rate in the first half of his career like it's nothing. He also blocked shots then, though his height probably helped here.

btw Bird was a good help defender

[SamuraiSWISH]

as for Magic, can't ignore his ridiculous steals rate in the first half of his career like it's nothing. He also blocked shots then, though his height probably helped here.

btw Bird was a good help defender
Bird was a better defender than Magic, period.

[Kblaze8855]

At this point anyone who still goes on the Wilt finals/playoffs PPG drop who doesnt acknowledge he made most of his deep playoff runs(5 of his 6 finals) when he made an effort not to score but instead win with defense is either trolling or so misinformed they shouldnt be talking about the issue to begin with.

Like choking is the reason you score less when you take 6 shots a game(in 47 minutes a night) in the playoffs than in seasons you took 32 a game.....

108 of his 160 playoff games were after he made an effort to play like Russell and win off defense, rebounding, and outlet passing. Outside those seasons hes #1 or #2 all time in playoff ppg with Jordan. I think Jordan would be #1 but I dont remember for sure. And even in those seasons a huge number of his playoff games were vs the Celtics who had to that point(and for some time to come) the best defensive front court in history.

Anyway...the issue with all D teams has always been the same. Star bias and not giving credit to guys who only play D. Chris Paul and Lebron both have more all D first teams than Tony Allen. They get the "He has to do so much...." credit though. Lebron and Kobe were all NBA first team over Tony Allen and Iggy on second in 2011. Im not so sure about that. Iggy only made 2 teams total. Doesnt mean the people who made more are better defenders....especially with the lax rules that dont even have the same number of players each year(Some years 6 people make the first team..or different numbers of positions).

From what ive seen/accept id go with

Payton with honorable mention to Frazier with both having the offensive edge on DJ
Jordan with honorable mention to Kobe for his early work
Pippen(Bobby Jones not doing much on offense...Leonard also having a case..Hondo also gets a mention)
KG/Tim no argument from me over who you choose

Center you could go a few ways but Wilt is in the discussion no doubt.

Gonna do it just off all D first teams of people who also are elite on offense Lebron goes over Pippen. Lebron has the 3rd most all d picks of any 3. Doesnt make him the 3rd best defender.

Pippen was to me as good on offense as Lebron on D...meaning...really good...but not all time elite. But you could argue Pippen as closer to the GOAT defender than Lebron to the GOAT offensive player. I dont think either is the case...but I think Pippen has a better case to make. Limit it to position its even easier.

[tpols]

you also have to consider wilt played a huge proportion of his playoff minutes versus bill russell.. and to a lesser extent KAJ. since there were less teams, and playoff rounds wilt was absolutely constantly seeing HOF centers better than any today. Imagine if lebron saw tim duncan every round instead of all the filler he saw every year in the east, thats like 80% of his playoff games... wilt had it much tougher.

[kennethgriffen]

as for Magic, can't ignore his ridiculous steals rate in the first half of his career like it's nothing. He also blocked shots then, though his height probably helped here.

btw Bird was a good help defender


90% of steals and blocks by non post players are actually attained by NOT playing defense and instead leaking out for chase downs/playing passing lanes etc...

its why most people were tricked into thinking a younger lebron was a DPOTY candidate. later when they actually watched his finals defense exposed highlight compilations they realized the truth

[kennethgriffen]

Pippen was to me as good on offense as Lebron on D...meaning...really good...but not all time elite.


lebron was never a good on ball defender. he was being made fun of throughout his career for his defense. it was always a joke to everyone who actually paid attention and didn't just watch his chase down blocks

2011 - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZhR-CXagPZI

2014 - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XKUCE_5H7Iw

2015 - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zK9wLWF8TXo

2016 - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=05hXYtvQEjM

2017 - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YzmvikY8VdQ

2018 - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yKjNWFqrAIg

[Gus Hemmingway]

LeBron was MVP and 2nd in DPOY voting in 2012 and 2013

Nobody was as good on offense and defense as LeBron in those years



And Kobe was a negative defender every year since 2000

[Hey Yo]

as for Magic, can't ignore his ridiculous steals rate in the first half of his career like it's nothing. He also blocked shots then, though his height probably helped here.

btw Bird was a good help defender
LOL @ trying to prop up Magic's career pathetic defensive efforts. There's a reason why he was assigned to guard the least offensive threat on the floor every night.

Steals isn't an indicator that one plays very good defense. Cause if it was, we'd be talking about how great a defender AI was.

[kennethgriffen]

LeBron was MVP and 2nd in DPOY voting in 2012 and 2013

Nobody was as good on offense and defense as LeBron in those years



And Kobe was a negative defender every year since 2000



lebron was never good at defense.


he was overrated due to his chase down blocks/playing the passing lanes. the video evidence proves this. its why people caught on and he stopped making all defensive teams at such a young age

[Hey Yo]

90% of steals and blocks by non post players are actually attained by NOT playing defense and instead leaking out for chase downs/playing passing lanes etc...

its why most people were tricked into thinking a younger lebron was a DPOTY candidate. later when they actually watched his finals defense exposed highlight compilations they realized the truth
Speaking of being exposed in the Finals, isn't Kobe a career 40% shooter against a conference that you say has been horrific since 2000??

[kennethgriffen]

Speaking of being exposed in the Finals, isn't Kobe a career 40% shooter against a conference that you say has been horrific since 2000??


a conference can suck and still produce the pistons/celtics ( who were historically great at defense )


but kobes percentages in the finals are due mostly to injuries


- having a major ankle injury in 2000
- having a major shoulder/knee injury in 2004
- having major hand/knee injuries from 2008-2010


kobe was only healthy for 2 finals out of 7 ... this is a testament to kobes ability to grind it out, defend, rebound, get to the line and lead his team to the win at all cost ( i.e. figure it out as he put it )


lebron just quits/whines/moans/b*tches/blames everyone else but himself when he's faced with any adversity

[Kblaze8855]

lebron was never a good on ball defender. he was being made fun of throughout his career for his defense. it was always a joke to everyone who actually paid attention and didn't just watch his chase down blocks

The exact same people who voted Kobe in voted Lebron in. Did they only know what they were seeing with one of them?

[kennethgriffen]

The exact same people who voted Kobe in voted Lebron in. Did they only know what they were seeing with one of them?


kobe didn't play the passing lanes/leak out for chase downs


his reputation was for lock down on ball defense. there was never a misconception about his defense because it was authentic


i do however admit he probably was gifted his last 2 nominations. but then again he was robbed in 2001 and 2002 for first team .. so it balances out

[ImKobe]

Chris Paul deserves a mention.

9x all-defense (7x 1st)
6x steals leader

Always a pest on that side of the court and is one of the greatest passers in league history.

[Elosha]

LeBron had some truly impressive moments of defense (such as defending prime Rose in the playoffs) but he's been incredibly inconsistent during his career. He was probably at his best in 2011-2013, but before that he wasn't committed on a regular basis. And starting in 2014, it really fell off a cliff, starting with both his effort and leadership on the defensive end of the floor (which affects everyone else's willingness to play good d). It got worse and worse in his second stint with Cleveland, and it's even worse this year with the Lakers. He's truly a one-way player now.

Wilt should be somewhere on this list, if you take out the whole criteria of requiring a great number of championships. I'm a bit skeptical of Wilt's overall greatness for a variety of reasons, but one can't deny the sheer number of blocks and rebounds he collected. He did what he was supposed to do on the defensive end in the era in which he played ... with a vengeance.

[Kblaze8855]

Kidd/GP over Kobe? Thats not something to be upset about. He was same basic level on that end with slightly declined GP and peak Kidd. Kobe in 02 led the second team in votes. Barely behind kidd. In 03 he beat Kidd out for first team by only 4 points. They stayed close.

The award voting has always been odd. One year the most all D votes went to Tony Allen(53) with Lebron second(52) but Marc Gasol with 12 won DPOY because its a different group of voters. Media does DPOY and went with Gasol. Coaches do all D team and had 8 people with more votes.

[Hey Yo]

a conference can suck and still produce the pistons/celtics ( who were historically great at defense )


but kobes percentages in the finals are due mostly to injuries


- having a major ankle injury in 2000
- having a major shoulder/knee injury in 2004
- having major hand/knee injuries from 2008-2010


kobe was only healthy for 2 finals out of 7 ... this is a testament to kobes ability to grind it out, defend, rebound, get to the line and lead his team to the win at all cost ( i.e. figure it out as he put it )


lebron just quits/whines/moans/b*tches/blames everyone else but himself when he's faced with any adversity
ahhhhhhhh..... so it's only the teams Kobe faced that didn't suck and had historically great defense in the worst conference ever..... :rolleyes:

If Detroits defense was so historical, then that Finals wouldn't be considered the biggest upset in Finals history now would it??

Kobe's horrific shot selection and selfish choices is what made Detroits defense look historic that series.

[kennethgriffen]

Kidd/GP over Kobe? Thats not something to be upset about. He was same basic level on that end with slightly declined GP and peak Kidd. Kobe in 02 led the second team in votes. Barely behind kidd. In 03 he beat Kidd out for first team by only 4 points. They stayed close.

The award voting has always been odd. One year the most all D votes went to Tony Allen(53) with Lebron second(52) but Marc Gasol with 12 won DPOY because its a different group of voters. Media does DPOY and went with Gasol. Coaches do all D team and had 8 people with more votes.


kobe was guarding the other teams PG's and shutting them down routinely back in 2001 and 2002. it was a major reason why the lakers were so successful


gary paytons sonics missed the playoffs in 2001. how on earth is that worthy of making 1st team defense

[kennethgriffen]

ahhhhhhhh..... so it's only the teams Kobe faced that didn't suck and had historically great defense in the worst conference ever..... :rolleyes:

If Detroits defense was so historical, then that Finals wouldn't be considered the biggest upset in Finals history now would it??



a conference is 15 teams.. not one team... you nitwit

[Kblaze8855]

Winning 44 games with young rashard and the remains of alcoholic era Vin Baker is supposed to eliminate someone from being all D because 44 wins put you in 10th place?

Swap Lewis for Shaq I

[kennethgriffen]

[QUOTE=Kblaze8855]Winning 44 games with young rashard and the remains of alcoholic era Vin Baker is supposed to eliminate someone from being all D because 44 wins put you in 10th place?

Swap Lewis for Shaq I

[Hey Yo]

a conference is 15 teams.. not one team... you nitwit
We know the game Kenny. When Kobe faces a team they're historical great, while every team LeBron has ever faced is historically bad.


SSDD ...... :sleeping

[Kblaze8855]

You and I clearly are looking for different things for all D team voting.

Im looking first for one thing....who the better defender was.

In fact...that may be the only thing im looking for with a slight nod towards playing enough of the season to be reasonable.

[Big164]

Wilt
Hakeem
Kawahi
Jordan
Gary Payton

[Bronbron23]

90% of steals and blocks by non post players are actually attained by NOT playing defense and instead leaking out for chase downs/playing passing lanes etc...

its why most people were tricked into thinking a younger lebron was a DPOTY candidate. later when they actually watched his finals defense exposed highlight compilations they realized the truth
That's not true at all and making the mistake of thinking that on ball defence is the only defence there is. There's on and off ball defence. There are plaenty of guys who were average on ball defenders but great off ball but they could still influence a game on the defensive end. Obviously mj was a better defender because he was great on and off ball but it doesn't mean LeBron was a bad defender.

[kennethgriffen]

That's not true at all and making the mistake of thinking that on ball defence is the only defence there is. There's on and off ball defence. There are plaenty of guys who were average on ball defenders but great off ball but they could still influence a game on the defensive end. Obviously mj was a better defender because he was great on and off ball but it doesn't mean LeBron was a bad defender.


actually it is entirely true and why allen iverson (an absolute abysmal defender) was leading the league in steals

[kennethgriffen]

You and I clearly are looking for different things for all D team voting.

Im looking first for one thing....who the better defender was.

In fact...that may be the only thing im looking for with a slight nod towards playing enough of the season to be reasonable.


youve never been one to allow yourself to go with the grain. i expect nothing less than you to argue a lottery team player to deserve major awards

[Kblaze8855]

Not repping worse defenders for an all defensive team because they have better players on their team giving them better records. Irrelevant information.

[Smoke117]

Of course OP has Kobe in his little list. He's not even close to being one of the best two players in nba history. He was regularly a negative defensively throughout his career.

[bullettooth]

sorry... its the no chokers club

winning finals records only

https://thumbs.gfycat.com/HealthyWealthyAfricanbushviper-mobile.jpg


http://i.imgur.com/ZGWem.jpg

ChokerS... you're allowed to have one.

[NBASTATMAN]

Of course OP has Kobe in his little list. He's not even close to being one of the best two players in nba history. He was regularly a negative defensively throughout his career.


You are not allowed to bring up facts.. You know even Kobe's coach Phil Jackson said KObe was not good on defense..

Long time Mentor Tex Winters said Kobe was not good on defense..

I will say that Kobe was a good defender especially in that first year that the Lakers won a title.. But after that I would say he GOT worse every year..

[Smoke117]

You are not allowed to bring up facts.. You know even Kobe's coach Phil Jackson said KObe was not good on defense..

Long time Mentor Tex Winters said Kobe was not good on defense..

I will say that Kobe was a good defender especially in that first year that the Lakers won a title.. But after that I would say he GOT worse every year..

Kobe basically destroyed any prestige the all defensive team had when he was put on the team when he was literally a negative player defensively. I will say he played better defense in the playoffs, but the whole point of being on the all defensive team is consistency...being a consistent defender throughout the long 82 game season and Kobe was, frankly, never that besides 2000. What makes it even worse is he was being put on the team over a guy like Dwyane Wade who was a far superior defensive player.

[NBASTATMAN]

Kobe basically destroyed any prestige the all defensive team had when he was put on the team when he was literally a negative player defensively. I will say he played better defense in the playoffs, but the whole point of being on the all defensive team is consistency...being a consistent defender throughout the long 82 game season and Kobe was, frankly, never that besides 2000. What makes it even worse is he was being put on the team over a guy like Dwyane Wade who was a far superior defensive player.


:cheers:

[PickernRoller]

Can't argue with OP on this one.

[NBASTATMAN]

Can't argue with JERRY WEST on this one.Lebron is up there with MJ


:cheers: :applause:

[PickernRoller]

Jerry propping his boy.

Bran, Jerry and Elgin... Top 3 all time.

[SouBeachTalents]

Real top 5

Jordan
Kareem
Wilt
Duncan
Hakeem

By position

Payton
Jordan
Miami LeBron
Duncan
Hakeem

[ClipperRevival]

Besides the obvious, gotta shout out CP3. To me, he's right up there with any defender for a PG sans perhaps Payton because he was 6'4". But watching that dude as a Clipper, he was unreal defensively. And offensively, was a maestro too. Could get to any spot on the court with his dribble and had a devastating midrange game. CP3 was a damn beast on both ends.

[ImKobe]

Kobe basically destroyed any prestige the all defensive team had when he was put on the team when he was literally a negative player defensively. I will say he played better defense in the playoffs, but the whole point of being on the all defensive team is consistency...being a consistent defender throughout the long 82 game season and Kobe was, frankly, never that besides 2000. What makes it even worse is he was being put on the team over a guy like Dwyane Wade who was a far superior defensive player.

Wade was never far superior on defense, he simply played in a worse Conference and played on teams that mostly ran at a snail's pace. Lakers coasted on defense after the 2000 season but were consistently holding teams to 80-90 pts in the POs. Kobe's individual defense has always been elite and coaches, who watched hours of flim on him knew that and thus voted him 1st team.

[knicksman]

Kobe basically destroyed any prestige the all defensive team had when he was put on the team when he was literally a negative player defensively. I will say he played better defense in the playoffs, but the whole point of being on the all defensive team is consistency...being a consistent defender throughout the long 82 game season and Kobe was, frankly, never that besides 2000. What makes it even worse is he was being put on the team over a guy like Dwyane Wade who was a far superior defensive player.

its all about the eye test smoke. We only care about the skills not the stats. Thats how the higher IQs judge players. Your a low IQ so you dont get it.

[Rico2016]

1 MVP
2 FMVP

Yikes

Fringe top 15

[Gileraracer]

So Kobe plays better defense than LeBron now. Interesting news to me :oldlol:

Not so fast bucko :no:

Its not that difficult to play better defense than NO DEFENSE.

[72-10]

Chris Paul deserves a mention.

9x all-defense (7x 1st)
6x steals leader

Always a pest on that side of the court and is one of the greatest passers in league history.

I think I'd add Paul at 10th to my list, and Wade is not far behind. I'm also bumping this because this is one of the most awesome threads this fanboard has seen. 5 stars.

[TheCorporation]

Imagine being Jordan and getting praised for being a good defender when LeBron literally did everything better defensively :lol

[Mr Feeny]

Imagine being Jordan and getting praised for being a good defender when LeBron literally did everything better defensively :lol

Imagine believing any of this.

Forget about Jordan. Lebron's own contemporary - Kawhi - is a better 2 way player. By a distance.

[TheCorporation]

Imagine believing any of this.

Forget about Jordan. Lebron's own contemporary - Kawhi - is a better 2 way player. By a distance.

Allow me to provide you with some facts, then. You must be new to the NBA, welcome. Stick around and learn some things

Most post season

steals: LeBron
blocks: LeBron
DRtg: LeBron
chip runs under 101 DRtg:
LeBron 2 for 3
Jordan 0 for 6

SPG% LeBron
BPG% LeBron

I mean...Just not close

[Mr Feeny]

Allow me to provide you with some facts, then. You must be new to the NBA, welcome. Stick around and learn some things

Most post season

steals: LeBron
blocks: LeBron
DRtg: LeBron
chip runs under 101 DRtg:
LeBron 2 for 3
Jordan 0 for 6

SPG% LeBron
BPG% LeBron

I mean...Just not close

What does any of the above have to do with being a better 2 way player?
You believe that playing the passing lanes makes you a great defender?:oldlol:

[Gileraracer]

why do we give guys like magic/lebron a pass for not playing any defense whatsoever and russell a pass for not dominating offensively


...

Because you will not find defense on the basic statsheets and thats the only thing we, the Lebron fam, care about :rockon:

[sportjames23]

Imagine being Jordan and getting praised for being a good defender when LeBron literally did everything better defensively :lol


Oh? How many DPOY awards did Bron win?

[Gileraracer]

Allow me to provide you with some facts, then. You must be new to the NBA, welcome. Stick around and learn some things

Most post season

steals: LeBron
blocks: LeBron
DRtg: LeBron
chip runs under 101 DRtg:
LeBron 2 for 3
Jordan 0 for 6

SPG% LeBron
BPG% LeBron

I mean...Just not close

http://i.freegifmaker.me/1/5/5/1/7/9/15517973533198297.gif

http://i.freegifmaker.me/1/5/5/1/7/9/1551797455788578.gif

http://i.freegifmaker.me/1/5/5/1/7/9/15517973023198267.gif

[clipps]

Besides the obvious, gotta shout out CP3. To me, he's right up there with any defender for a PG sans perhaps Payton because he was 6'4". But watching that dude as a Clipper, he was unreal defensively. And offensively, was a maestro too. Could get to any spot on the court with his dribble and had a devastating midrange game. CP3 was a damn beast on both ends.

I bet you know his ***** size too you weirdo.

[nayte]

What does any of the above have to do with being a better 2 way player?
You believe that playing the passing lanes makes you a great defender?:oldlol:

I don't even care about the Jordan v LeBron shit but that stats he pulls are stupid. No thought to context at all. Like most of his. It's weird

[plowking]

Kawhi, Lebron and CP3 belong on the list.

Kobe really doesn't. There has always been a media bias about players that spend their time in LA for the duration of their careers. Same way they made it out as if Magic was a better player than Bird. Not even close.

[Mr Feeny]

I don't even care about the Jordan v LeBron shit but that stats he pulls are stupid. No thought to context at all. Like most of his. It's weird

Total career playoff steals:oldlol: You cant make this stuff up. These are the arguments being put forth by these kids.

[72-10]

I've decided to update my list (tiered and ranked)

tier 1
1. MJ
2. Hakeem
3. Wilt
4. Kareem
5. Kobe
6. Timmy D
7. Jerry West
8. D-Rob
9. KG

tier 2
10. CP3
11. Gary Payton
12. Ewing
13. Wade
14. Karl Malone
15. Julius Erving
16. Bird
17. LeBron
18. Curry
19. Durant
20. Magic
21. Pip
22. Kawhi
23. Barkley

[TheCorporation]

Allow me to provide you with some facts, then. You must be new to the NBA, welcome. Stick around and learn some things

Most post season

steals: LeBron
blocks: LeBron
DRtg: LeBron
chip runs under 101 DRtg:
LeBron 2 for 3
Jordan 0 for 6

SPG% LeBron
BPG% LeBron

I mean...Just not close


Shook?

[SouBeachTalents]

I've decided to update my list (tiered and ranked)

tier 1
1. MJ
2. Hakeem
3. Wilt
4. Kareem
5. Kobe
6. Timmy D
7. Jerry West
8. D-Rob
9. KG

tier 2
10. CP3
11. Gary Payton
12. Ewing
13. Wade
14. Karl Malone
15. Julius Erving
16. Bird
17. LeBron
18. Curry
19. Durant
20. Magic
21. Pip
22. Kawhi
23. Barkley
Curry & Magic top 20 two way players :oldlol:

Lots of others you missed that could be argued

Shaq
AD
PG
Stockton
Frazier
McHale
Klay

[Vino24]

Poor Kenny. Bet he is watching this thread right now :lol

[LAmbruh]

Poor Kenny. Bet he is watching this thread right now :lol
+1 :oldlol:


https://media.giphy.com/media/vyVxeMNGUBT7q/giphy.gif

[egokiller]

Poor Kenny. Bet he is watching this thread right now :lol

He certainly has you thinking about him and what he

[stalkerforlife]

[QUOTE=egokiller]He certainly has you thinking about him and what he

[stalkerforlife]

Michael Jordan ( 10 time all nba 1st team, 9 time all defensive 1st team, 1 time defensive player of the year )

Kareem Abdul Jabbar ( 10 time all nba 1st team, 5 time all defensive 1st team )

Kobe Bryant ( 11 time all nba 1st team, 9 time all defensive 1st team )

Tim Duncan ( 10 time all nba 1st team, 8 time all defensive 1st team )

Hakeem Olajuwon ( 6 time all nba 1st team, 5 time all defensive 1st team, 2 time defensive player of the year )



should this be the real top 5?


defense IS a thing right?

why do we give guys like magic/lebron a pass for not playing any defense whatsoever and russell a pass for not dominating offensively


...

Good list.

[72-10]

Curry & Magic top 20 two way players :oldlol:

Lots of others you missed that could be argued

Shaq
AD
PG
Stockton
Frazier
McHale
Klay

You think Magic's D was that lax? How do completely negate the steals? I have no doubts Ewing is top 12, might even be 10th. McHale's a no doubter.

[SouBeachTalents]

You think Magic's D was that lax? How do completely negate the steals? I have no doubts Ewing is top 12, might even be 10th. McHale's a no doubter.
Steals are not always an indicator of being a good defender. Iverson's top 10 in steals per game all time

[RealSkipBayless]

[QUOTE=egokiller]He certainly has you thinking about him and what he

[72-10]

Steals are not always an indicator of being a good defender. Iverson's top 10 in steals per game all time

Where'd you rank Iverson among 2 way players?

[72-10]

thread bump

curious to get some fresh suggestions

[72-10]

where ya'll rank Ewing in this?

[72-10]

thank you for the reads - I found them quite informative

is OP still banned?

[8Ball]

Yeah OP had a meltdown and got banned. Too bad should unban him.