if lebron is having a great season then doesn't this prove his stats never mattered

[kennethgriffen]

surely a 27/8/7 average is better than any season kobes ever had. all around stats are more valuable

in fact since lebron returned hes basically averaging a 30 point triple double.. yet the lakers have lost nearly every game and slipped from 1 game out of the playoffs to almost 8 games behind the 8th seed


doesnt this basically prove nothing lebron EVER did equaled winning basketball and in fact he just always had guys that carried him


kobe clearly carried the 2006 and 2007 lakers to the playoffs. some say he carried the 2013 lakers as well and the 2009 lakers to the title with minimum help...


so this proves i was right all along. it shows theres way more to leadership than numbers.


stats lie.. results don't

[3ball]

How many HOF or star teammates did Paul George, Derrick Rose, or any of Lebron's Eastern opponents have?

Mostly zero

How many star teammates for Lebron's Heat or Cavs?... 2 or 3

Yet people give him props for beating the East - it's a joke - lebron isn't top 10 because no one stacked the deck like that.. maybe magic, but he's overrated too, albiet not by nearly as much

And compared to Kobe? Gtfo.. Kobe briefly wanted to be traded because he had a bad cast.. but it didn't happen, so he was forced to win with a regular cast (0 or 1 star teammate).. lebron doesn't compare to this accomplishment

[Rico2016]

How many HOF or star teammates did Paul George, Derrick Rose, or any of Lebron's Eastern opponents have?

Mostly zero

How many star teammates for Lebron's Heat or Cavs?... 2 or 3

Yet people give him props for beating the East - it's a joke - lebron isn't top 10 because no one stacked the deck like that.. maybe magic, but he's overrated too, albiet not by nearly as much

And compared to Kobe? Gtfo.. Kobe briefly wanted to be traded because he had a bad cast.. but it didn't happen, so he was forced to win with a regular cast (0 or 1 star teammate).. lebron doesn't compare to this accomplishment


Pippen

You lose again

[Indian guy]

Raw stats aren't the most ideal way of tracking impact. LeBron's advanced stats this season (offense) are all at their lowest in quite a while.

To me, LeBron displayed his old ability in only about 18 of the 48 games he played in this season. 12 games from mid-Nov. to early Dec. + the last 6 games. That's simply not enough to elevate an ill-fitted roster with limited star power to a good enough offense to consistently compete. Lakers are currently the 23rd ranked offense in the league (29th in 3pt%). That's a death sentence in today's league where offense is more important than ever. The bottom 10 offensive teams are all currently in the lottery.

LeBron's able enough and smart enough to always put up numbers, but I would't go by that. He clearly wasn't impacting the game like he normally did. And it mostly boiled down to 1) declined ability and 2) very poorly constructed Laker roster. And he's going to continue declining. If the Lakers somehow don't acquire another star + shooters in the offseason, it's going to be another lottery season.

[kennethgriffen]

Raw stats aren't the most ideal way of tracking impact. LeBron's advanced stats this season (offense) are all at their lowest in quite a while.

To me, LeBron displayed his old ability in only about 18 of the 48 games he played in this season. 12 games from mid-Nov. to early Dec. + the last 6 games. That's simply not enough to elevate an ill-fitted roster with limited star power to a good enough offense to consistently compete. Lakers are currently the 23rd ranked offense in the league (29th in 3pt%). That's a death sentence in today's league where offense is more important than ever. The bottom 10 offensive teams are all currently in the lottery.

LeBron's able enough and smart enough to always put up numbers, but I would't go by that. He clearly wasn't impacting the game like he normally did. And it mostly boiled down to 1) declined ability and 2) very poorly constructed Laker roster. And he's going to continue declining. If the Lakers somehow don't acquire another star + shooters in the offseason, it's going to be another lottery season.


so you agree 30 point triple doubles don't actually mean anything

[Rico2016]

You're right, 6/24 is much better than 30-point trip dubs :roll:

[StrongLurk]

4MVPS, 3FMVPS, 3 rings.

What are those stats?

Did Kobe's stats in 06 and 07 matter?

[kennethgriffen]

You're right, 6/24 is much better than 30-point trip dubs :roll:

thats actually a great point to bring up. kobe showed theres infinitely more to the game than stats. he dominated the last 15 minutes of that game with hustle/defense/attacking the basket/leadership/resolve




2010 NBA finals Game 7:
3:09 left in 3rd - Kobe 2 point shot ( boston 56 - lakers 49 )
2:37 left in 3rd - Gasol 2 free throws ( boston 56 - lakers 51 )
2:21 left in 3rd - Kobe 11th rebound
1:10 left in 3rd - Odom 2 point layup off kobe pass ( boston 57 - lakers 53 )
11:43 left in 4th - Gasol 2 point shot ( boston 57 - lakers 55 )
8:46 left in 4th - Kobe 3 points, fouled on shot ( boston 59 - lakers 58 )
7:29 left in 4th - Artest 3 point play ( boston 61 - lakers 61 )
6:13 left in 4th - fisher 3 pointer ( boston 64 - lakers 64 )
5:56 left in 4th - Kobe 12th rebound
5:56 left in 4th - Kobe 2 points. fouled on shot ( boston 64 - Lakers 66 )
5:36 left in 4th - Kobe 13th rebound
5:23 left in 4th - Kobe 2 point jumpshot ( boston 64 - Lakers 68 )
5:01 left in 4th - Kobe 14th rebound
4:39 left in 4th - Kobe assist to Gasols 2 free throws ( boston 64 - lakers 70 )
4:20 left in 4th - Kobe 15th rebound
3:21 left in 4th - Kobe 1 point, fouled on dunk attempt ( boston 66 - lakers 71 )
2:47 left in 4th - Kobe assist to Gasols 2 free throws ( boston 68 - lakers 73 )
2:20 left in 4th - loose ball foul Gasol 1 free throw ( boston 68 - lakers 74 )
1:30 left in 4th - Gasol 2 point shot ( boston 70 - lakers 76 )
1:01 left in 4th - Kobe assist to Artests 3 pointer ( Boston 73 - Lakers 79 )
0:25 left in 4th - Kobe 2 points, fouled on drive attempt ( boston 76 - lakers 81 )
0:11 left in 4th - intentional foul on vujacic ( boston 79 - lakers 83 )

[superduper]

Sorry bro but his playoff mode has been activated :mad: :mad:

[kennethgriffen]

4MVPS, 3FMVPS, 3 rings.

What are those stats?

Did Kobe's stats in 06 and 07 matter?


you're forgetting that none of that stuff matters anymore since it was proven to be a leastern conference manifestation. he doesn't win mvps not making the playoffs out west. he doesn't win finals mvps by being able to fluke out 1 real playoff series victory


forget all the ring chasing/colluding/bail out/suspension/lockout asterisks


this season proves all of those asterisks aren't even needed to debunk lebrons accomplishments


he never had any real impact. hes averaging a 30 point triple double since returning and the lakers fell from 1 game out of the playoffs to 7.5 games out of the playoffs

his stats are empty. he was never a great basketball player. period. end of discussion

[StrongLurk]

you're forgetting that none of that stuff matters anymore since it was proven to be a leastern conference manifestation. he doesn't win mvps not making the playoffs out west. he doesn't win finals mvps by being able to fluke out 1 real playoff series victory


forget all the ring chasing/colluding/bail out/suspension/lockout asterisks


this season proves all of those asterisks aren't even needed to debunk lebrons accomplishments


he never had any real impact. hes averaging a 30 point triple double since returning and the lakers fell from 1 game out of the playoffs to 7.5 games out of the playoffs

his stats are empty. he was never a great basketball player. period. end of discussion

Empty post. You take the bait too easily.

[PP34Deuce]

Way too many astericks are given to both sides of the arguments. I don't hate Kobe but I can admit he probably accomplished the most with his talent.

He got to 5 rings
He broke records
He was the closest to replicating MJ's career.

Lebron will go down as a top 5-7 player that could have been the GOAT.

He won 3 rings (Potentially 1 more in 2 years)
He has numerous accolades


Ultimately, evaluating both players. Lebron gives you a dimension we haven't quite seen before. It's a big reason why some people say he's more talented than Kobe and would be their first pick over Kobe.

I believe Kobe is a top 10 ATG. I just happen to believe Lebron is a better overall basketball player. In their primes, he's more impactful.

[kennethgriffen]

Empty post. You take the bait too easily.


lebron would never have accomplished anything if he played in the west his entire career


maybe 2012 he MIGHT have. but even then its a long shot

[StrongLurk]

lebron would never have accomplished anything if he played in the west his entire career


maybe 2012 he MIGHT have. but even then its a long shot

M...T

[Hey Yo]

lebron would never have accomplished anything if he played in the west his entire career


maybe 2012 he MIGHT have. but even then its a long shot
Yeah, having played his first 7 years for one of the biggest garbage franchises in NBA history did wonders for his career. He accomplished so much.



:rolleyes: dumb.....

[kennethgriffen]

Yeah, having played his first 7 years for one of the biggest garbage franchises in NBA history did wonders for his career. He accomplished so much.



:rolleyes: dumb.....


he literally just played for the most prominent franchise in the nba and completely shat the bed

[Vino24]

No one in history can carry this Lakers squad

[Hey Yo]

he literally just played for the most prominent franchise in the nba and completely shat the bed
Context, chico...... context.

[Dray n Klay]

he literally just played for the most prominent franchise in the nba and completely shat the bed


He had a 30 point triple double last game

[bullettooth]

he literally just played for the most prominent franchise in the nba and completely shat the bed
Context, chico...... context.

https://i.postimg.cc/pXCYbqP6/fZztLN3.gif

[kennethgriffen]

He had a 30 point triple double last game

theres no way you're a lebron fan

:lol

[Indian guy]

I don't understand the whole East/West thing. LeBron has a better record against the West (17-14) this season than the East (7-10) :confusedshrug:

This isn't about conferences. This is about a mediocre team with a declining superstar getting exposed.

[And1AllDay]

https://i.postimg.cc/RCgKyZ1z/2016-Salute.jpg

[kennethgriffen]

I don't understand the whole East/West thing. LeBron has a better record against the West (17-14) this season than the East (7-10) :confusedshrug:

This isn't about conferences. This is about a mediocre team with a declining superstar getting exposed.


you're s*ch an idiot... its about the amount of energy/effort it takes on a daily basis fighting for a playoff spot. you can't slack off/take breaks/quit on defense/throw games to get coaches fired or teammates traded like you can in the east and turn it around in time for the playoffs. it takes a perfect season to win titles coming out of the west


yes we know when lebron cares periodically he can beat some good teams. the problem is HE RARELY CARES or gives ANY EFFORT


he picks his spots because hes a fat lazy spoiled bald f@ggot... you can't do that and make the playoffs in the west. you have to take every game seriously and he doesn't



plus the east this year is better than ever. both conferences are tough for the first time in a while

[knicksman]

4MVPS, 3FMVPS, 3 rings.

What are those stats?

Did Kobe's stats in 06 and 07 matter?

ringchasers rings. Theres a reason why only the nerds respect him.

[knicksman]

analyzing skills is harder than reading stats. Thats why high IQs prefer eye test.

[MJistheGOAT]

I don't understand the whole East/West thing. LeBron has a better record against the West (17-14) this season than the East (7-10) :confusedshrug:

This isn't about conferences. This is about a mediocre team with a declining superstar getting exposed.

LOL, are you comparing this year

[Indian guy]

[QUOTE=MJistheGOAT]LOL, are you comparing this year

[kennethgriffen]

Don't see how this is relevant. East is not even as good as last season overall. Has a worse win % against the West this season than they did last season. Only 4 teams in the East even have a winning record against the West.


dude.. the east has 4 teams right now that are championship contenders


last year they had ZERO

[Indian guy]

dude.. the east has 4 teams right now that are championship contenders


last year they had ZERO

lol there are no contenderS in a league that features GS.

East has a couple of great teams in Milwaukee and Toronto and a couple of good ones in Boston and Philadelphia. Same as last season, frankly (BOS/TOR/PHI/CLE). And none of 'em have a shot at GS.

[MJistheGOAT]

Don't see how this is relevant. East is not even as good as last season overall. Has a worse win % against the West this season than they did last season. Only 4 teams in the East even have a winning record against the West.

He can

[kennethgriffen]

lol there are no contenderS in a league that features GS.

East has a couple of great teams in Milwaukee and Toronto and a couple of good ones in Boston and Philadelphia. Same as last season, frankly (BOS/TOR/PHI/CLE). And none of 'em have a shot at GS.



the warriors nearly lost to houston last year

this year they're dysfunctional as hell

just because your idol got ass raped by them doesn't mean they're unbeatable. thats just what happens when the league rigs a team to the finals that shoulda lost in round 1, game 7 vs indiana

[MJistheGOAT]

lol there are no contenderS in a league that features GS.

East has a couple of great teams in Milwaukee and Toronto and a couple of good ones in Boston and Philadelphia. Same as last season, frankly (BOS/TOR/PHI/CLE). And none of 'em have a shot at GS.

Toronto this season > last season
76ers this season > last season
Celtics with Kyrie would have beaten Cavs last season
Bucks this season > any non Cavs team last season
Pacers this season > Heat last season

You can

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

With the statistical season LeBron's had, he will only be a spectator in the playoffs.

That sounds crazy.

Most years those numbers are "good enough" to at least drag a team into the playoffs.

[MJistheGOAT]

With the statistical season like LeBron's had, he will only be a spectator in the playoffs.

Just sounds crazy.

Most years those numbers are "good enough" to at least drag a team into the playoffs.

Empty stats are not enough in the Wild Wild West

[Manny98]

LeBron was injured for the majority of the season so it doesn't count as a negative to his legacy

[Indian guy]

Toronto this season > last season

Agreed


76ers this season > last season

Are they? They are on pace for less wins than last season. Worse SRS than last season too. The new pieces just don't seem to fit.


Celtics with Kyrie would have beaten Cavs last season

Point of this being....? You should be comparing '19 Celtics to '18 Celts. And they were clearly better last season.


Pacers this season > Heat last season

Ummm, why aren't you comparing them to last year's team? Oh right, because they are obviously worse with no Oladipo.

I do agree on Milwaukee being better than any EC team from last season. But the East was better overall last year. Especially the top 8.

[MJistheGOAT]

76ers are a better team, more experienced and better offensive weapons, but yes, it is debatable and playoffs will show us the truth.

I said that about the Celtics, because they seemed better last year, but Kyrie injury stopped them from going to the finals.

I compared Pacers to Heat only because of the top 5-6 analogy without counting the Cavs. They were better last year, too.

I think 1-8 and specially 1-5 East this year is better than last one, obviously not counting the 17 Cavs.

[Wally450]

OP has gone from saying he doesn't even make threads anymore to full blown melting down over LeBron. :lol