What puts LeBron over Duncan?

[nayte]

I'm pretty high on Duncan. I think there is some thing to be said about being a star and playing the team game. I would like it to be non trolling but anyways.

[Gileraracer]

Vorp


Stats

[SpaceJam]

I like Duncan, but it's really interesting to note how he hardly takes any flack for any failures and/or any other negatives you'd throw onto any other player

One of the leaders of that disappointing 2004 Olympics team
Missing that layup over Battier in Game 7 of 2013 down 2 with under a minute remaining
Obviously having the GOAT coach his whole career
Hall of Fame worthy teammates

Like I said I'm a Duncan fan, I'm not trying to knock him. It's just interesting to note I don't really see him held to the same points like a LeBron or Kobe or MJ is. By that I mean, if it was those three those points would be harped on endless by the haters. GRANTED Bron/Kobe/MJ fanbases are the pinnacle of trolling here, and Duncan is hardly ever a topic

[nayte]

I like Duncan, but it's really interesting to note how he hardly takes any flack for any failures and/or any other negatives you'd throw onto any other player

One of the leaders of that disappointing 2004 Olympics team
Missing that layup over Battier in Game 7 of 2013 down 2 with under a minute remaining
Obviously having the GOAT coach his whole career
Hall of Fame worthy teammates

Like I said I'm a Duncan fan, I'm not trying to knock him. It's just interesting to note I don't really see him held to the same points like a LeBron or Kobe or MJ is. By that I mean, if it was those three those points would be harped on endless by the haters. GRANTED Bron/Kobe/MJ fanbases are the pinnacle of trolling here, and Duncan is hardly ever a topic.


Thanks for the legit response. While I don't consider olympics as an indicator. That lay up was a bummer. I will think about how we don't hold him accountable. I agree that is a good point considering how much LeBron cops..
I still don't think stats tell his story. Doing the right thing even if it doesn't show up on a stat still deserves some recognition

Edit I agree with your last point.

[SpaceJam]

.


Thanks for the legit response. While I don't consider olympics as an indicator. That lay up was a bummer. I will think about how we don't hold him accountable. I agree that is a good point considering how much LeBron cops..
I still don't think stats tell his story. Doing the right thing even if it doesn't show up on a stat still deserves some recognition

Yeah entirely depends who you ask in terms of whether the Olympics should hold weight. That being said Duncan was a beast, 2003 Finals is one of the best performances I have seen. These footage where you can argue he should be credited for a Quadruple double in Game 6. 21/20/10 with 8 blocks officially though, insane.

Borderline disgusting he never received a DPoY award. But than again was competing against one of my all time favorite players Big Ben Wallace.

[Kblaze8855]

Hall of Fame worthy teammates

Take a moment and think about this....

How many people elected to the hall of fame(for their NBA careers) in the last 25 years arent better than Tony, Manu, and the version of Drob who played with Duncan?

Doctor J
Bill Walton(arguably for college as much as NBA though)
Kareem
Gervin
goodrich
David Thompson
Alex English
Bailey Howell
Larry Bird
Mchale
Mcadoo
Isiah Thomas
Moses Malone
Magic Johnson
Parish
Worthy
Drexler
Barkley
Dumars
Nique
Dantley
Ewing
Hakeem
Jordan
David(clearly a better player pre Duncan than with)
Stockton
DJ
Malone
Pippen
Gus Johnson
Rodman
Mullin
Reggie
Bernard King
Payton
Zo
Mitch
Mutombo
Yao
Shaq
Kidd
Iverson
mcgrady
Ray
Nash
Hill

They are hall of famers...but they arent serious hall of famers NBA career wise. They are Gail Goodrich/Bailey Howell hall of famers.



That said....there is little or no reason to put Lebron over Duncan. Duncan just doesnt come up for whatever reason.

His career stands up to almost everyone. Outside the big 3 or 4...you could argue Duncan vs anyone ever.

[nayte]

Yeah entirely depends who you ask in terms of whether the Olympics should hold weight. That being said Duncan was a beast, 2003 Finals is one of the best performances I have seen. These footage where you can argue he should be credited for a Quadruple double in Game 6. 21/20/10 with 8 blocks officially though, insane.

Borderline disgusting he never received a DPoY award. But than again was competing against one of my all time favorite players Big Ben Wallace.

Fair enough. I won't use any Olympics as a indicator and Ben was a beast no doubt I won't disssgree with those dpoy.. I still think Duncan should have won one but anyways. To me he played his part right and won rings u can't ignore thst

[SpaceJam]

Take a moment and think about this....

How many people elected to the hall of fame(for their NBA careers) in the last 25 years arent better than Tony, Manu, and the version of Drob who played with Duncan?

Doctor J
Bill Walton(arguably for college as much as NBA though)
Kareem
Gervin
goodrich
David Thompson
Alex English
Bailey Howell
Larry Bird
Mchale
Mcadoo
Isiah Thomas
Moses Malone
Magic Johnson
Parish
Worthy
Drexler
Barkley
Dumars
Nique
Dantley
Ewing
Hakeem
Jordan
Davis(clearly a better player pre Duncan than with)
Stockton
DJ
Malone
Pippen
Gus Johnson
Rodman
Mullin
Reggie
Bernard King
Payton
Zo
Mitch
Mutombo
Yao
Shaq
Kidd
Iverson
mcgrady
Ray
Nash
Hill

They are hall of famers...but they arent serious hall of famers NBA career wise. They are Gail Goodrich/Bailey Howell hall of famers.



That said....there is little or no reason to put Lebron over Duncan. Duncan just doesnt come up for whatever reason.

His career stands up to almost everyone. Outside the big 3 or 4...you could argue Duncan vs anyone ever.

That's a fair point, I've never really liked the term 'all-star teammate' when referring to a players help for that reason, as it's too broad of a term. 2001 Shaq and 2009 Jameer Nelson aren't on the same level. But for some reason people just like to say, well, all-star appearance CHECK. Although I might put Manu up there with some of them honestly, but that's me


Fair enough. I won't use any Olympics as a indicator and Ben was a beast no doubt I won't disssgree with those dpoy.. I still think Duncan should have won one but anyways. To me he played his part right and won rings u can't ignore thst

Yeah you got to respect him as a person and a player. Great guy, always enjoyed watching him play, never understood the casual fans who'd refer to him and the Spurs as boring

[nayte]

Take a moment and think about this....

How many people elected to the hall of fame(for their NBA careers) in the last 25 years arent better than Tony, Manu, and the version of Drob who played with Duncan?

Doctor J
Bill Walton(arguably for college as much as NBA though)
Kareem
Gervin
goodrich
David Thompson
Alex English
Bailey Howell
Larry Bird
Mchale
Mcadoo
Isiah Thomas
Moses Malone
Magic Johnson
Parish
Worthy
Drexler
Barkley
Dumars
Nique
Dantley
Ewing
Hakeem
Jordan
Davis(clearly a better player pre Duncan than with)
Stockton
DJ
Malone
Pippen
Gus Johnson
Rodman
Mullin
Reggie
Bernard King
Payton
Zo
Mitch
Mutombo
Yao
Shaq
Kidd
Iverson
mcgrady
Ray
Nash
Hill

They are hall of famers...but they arent serious hall of famers NBA career wise. They are Gail Goodrich/Bailey Howell hall of famers.



That said....there is little or no reason to put Lebron over Duncan. Duncan just doesnt come up for whatever reason.

His career stands up to almost everyone. Outside the big 3 or 4...you could argue Duncan vs anyone ever.

Sorry blaze did u spell wrong they are all better then Manu and Parker.?
Or did I totally get it wrong. My bad
Ha I was wrong. I read a bit later and yeah lol

[BarberSchool]

Highlights.
Glitter.
TV time.

[Spurs m8]

That said....there is little or no reason to put Lebron over Duncan. Duncan just doesnt come up for whatever reason.


Correct.

And out of serious interest, kblaze...what is your top 5?

I'm sure you've posted it in the past but I've never seen it

[nayte]

Highlights.
Glitter.
TV time.

Huh. Really.

[Kblaze8855]

Not all of them are better. But almost all of them are.

[Kblaze8855]

Correct.

And out of serious interest, kblaze...what is your top 5?

I'm sure you've posted it in the past but I've never seen it


I have a hard time cutting it at 5. Id say I have a big 3 of

Jordan/Kareem/Russell

With a next group of

Wilt/Magic/Bird

If you wanted to put Duncan, Lebron, Kobe, Shaq, Hakeem, Doctor J, Oscar, or West anywhere behind that in any order I wouldnt disagree enough to argue. I might even accept those guys in the group of 3-6 for the right reasons.

The older I get the less tied I am to rankings.

Greatness and how good you are are so different its almost pointless to argue about to me. You could put Chris Webber or Paul Pierce on the floor with all those guys and on any given night he might outperform them.

Once you hit a certain level there isnt THAT much difference on the floor. We fight all day like its really some insane difference between what Moses Malone and Kareem or Tmac and Doctor J are gonna do on an actual court at the same time.

These guys are all like a 95 out of 100 and we fight to the death over who is a 96 and who is a 97.

[Spurs m8]

I have a hard time cutting it at 5. Id say I have a big 3 of

Jordan/Kareem/Russell

With a next group of

Wilt/Magic/Bird

If you wanted to put Duncan, Lebron, Kobe, Shaq, Hakeem, Doctor J, Oscar, or West anywhere behind that in any order I wouldnt disagree enough to argue. I might even accept those guys in the group of 3-6 for the right reasons.

The older I get the less tied I am to rankings.

Greatness and how good you are are so different its almost pointless to argue about to me. You could put Chris Webber or Paul Pierce on the floor with all those guys and on any given night he might outperform them.

Once you hit a certain level there isnt THAT much difference on the floor. We fight all day like its really some insane difference between what Moses Malone and Kareem or Tmac and Doctor J are gonna do on an actual court at the same time.

These guys are all like a 95 out of 100 and we fight to the death over who is a 96 and who is a 97.

You make great points.

Cheers for that.

[Gileraracer]

Fact is, except for some empty stats nothing justifies to put Lebron over Duncan.

Duncan: 5 rings with one team
Lebron: 3 rings with 3 teams

[Walk on Water]

Fact is, except for some empty stats nothing justifies to put Lebron over Duncan.

Duncan: 5 rings with one team
Lebron: 3 rings with 3 teams


The only difference is that Lebron struggled more and had to try to carry his no help teams. Duncan made his teammates better so that he can have some help.

[nayte]

Not all of them are better. But almost all of them are.

I read wrong. Your list was right. Maybe a few debateble but then we get into the hypothetical and that doesn't go far

[StrongLurk]

Level of play.

[Big164]

Mostly Nike.


If Shaq and Timmy had full career contracts with Nike theyd be more fairly ranked over losers like Lebran.

[PP34Deuce]

Duncan is in my 7-10 range for all time great.

I'll leave it at that.

[TheCorporation]

These guys are all like a 95 out of 100 and we fight to the death over who is a 96 and who is a 97.
Fair point :applause:

[FKAri]

I like Duncan a lot too. My only nitpick is that we never saw him outside of the magical world of San Antonio. I'm not one of those "if KG and Duncan swapped places their career trajectories would've swapped too" guys. I firmly believe TD > KG. Though, I can't deny that TD had certain luxuries afforded to him that a guy like KG didn't.

As for comparison to Lebron: they're completely different players. Lebron can carry a crappy team further while Duncan is better at putting a good team over the top.

[superduper]

I like Duncan a lot too. My only nitpick is that we never saw him outside of the magical world of San Antonio. I'm not one of those "if KG and Duncan swapped places their career trajectories would've swapped too" guys. I firmly believe TD > KG. Though, I can't deny that TD had certain luxuries afforded to him that a guy like KG didn't.

As for comparison to Lebron: they're completely different players. Lebron can carry a crappy team further while Duncan is better at putting a good team over the top.

'03

[sammichoffate]

Duncan wasnt a guy who scored 40 game after game, he usually got like 25ish with double digit boards and GOAT defense. I think casuals aren't as interested, which is why they automatically put lebron over him.

[ImKobe]

There's no case. Duncan's 2 - 1 against Lebron and would be 3 - 0 if his team didn't choke Game 6. Duncan is like the polar opposite of LBJ.

[FKAri]

'03
That was the first time I heard someone say he's the GOAT PF. And appropriately it was Barkley who I heard say it first.

There's no case. Duncan's 2 - 1 against Lebron and would be 3 - 0 if his team didn't choke Game 6. Duncan is like the polar opposite of LBJ.
They kinda collectively "choked" from what I remember. Kawhi's missed FT. Duncan missing a couple gimmies. Pop subbing Duncan out. Funnily enough Pop seems to catch the most blame from the public for it. People love blaming anything but the players. It's always the coach or refs' fault.

[Phoenix]

I have a hard time cutting it at 5. Id say I have a big 3 of

Jordan/Kareem/Russell

With a next group of

Wilt/Magic/Bird

If you wanted to put Duncan, Lebron, Kobe, Shaq, Hakeem, Doctor J, Oscar, or West anywhere behind that in any order I wouldnt disagree enough to argue. I might even accept those guys in the group of 3-6 for the right reasons.

The older I get the less tied I am to rankings.

Greatness and how good you are are so different its almost pointless to argue about to me. You could put Chris Webber or Paul Pierce on the floor with all those guys and on any given night he might outperform them.

Once you hit a certain level there isnt THAT much difference on the floor. We fight all day like its really some insane difference between what Moses Malone and Kareem or Tmac and Doctor J are gonna do on an actual court at the same time.

These guys are all like a 95 out of 100 and we fight to the death over who is a 96 and who is a 97.

I basically made a similar argument yesterday:


I don't see why I even need to bother, because it's all subjective and arbitrary, but anyways. Note that the listed order in each tier doesn't necessarily represent how I rank them as players within specific tiers:

Tier 1- MJ, Kareem, Russell

Tier 2 - Shaq, Duncan, Lebron, Wilt, Magic, Bird

Tier 3 - Hakeem, Kobe, Oscar

The big issue we have in this discussions, there's not like a ton of difference in talent and ability between guys at this level. You're pretty much nitpicking 'flaws' to separate one player from another. There's not much 'ability' gap between Kareem and Hakeem. Frankly I think Hakeem is about as complete on both ends as anybody, but I can recognize that he should come below other players who better maximized their talents into even better careers.

[superduper]

Delusion

[And1AllDay]

Delusion

You still posting this nonsense emotions based stuff bruh?

[Spurs m8]

You still posting this nonsense emotions based stuff bruh?

https://i.postimg.cc/cL8PHH0p/wheels.gif

[Mr.GOAT2408]

I have a hard time cutting it at 5. Id say I have a big 3 of

Jordan/Kareem/Russell

With a next group of

Wilt/Magic/Bird

If you wanted to put Duncan, Lebron, Kobe, Shaq, Hakeem, Doctor J, Oscar, or West anywhere behind that in any order I wouldnt disagree enough to argue. I might even accept those guys in the group of 3-6 for the right reasons.

The older I get the less tied I am to rankings.

Greatness and how good you are are so different its almost pointless to argue about to me. You could put Chris Webber or Paul Pierce on the floor with all those guys and on any given night he might outperform them.

Once you hit a certain level there isnt THAT much difference on the floor. We fight all day like its really some insane difference between what Moses Malone and Kareem or Tmac and Doctor J are gonna do on an actual court at the same time.

These guys are all like a 95 out of 100 and we fight to the death over who is a 96 and who is a 97.
I agree with the top 3 and agree with Magic at top 6, never really saw Wilt or Bird as top 6 since about a decade ago when the 2000s greats (Shaq, Duncan, later on Kobe) made their case but otherwise solid post. There really isn't a huge gap between a top 5-10 or a fringe top 20-25. Those guys ranked in the 20s are still capable of playing at a insanely high level and taking a team far.

But rankings are fun and create so many discussions, they'll never not be a big part of why people love (and hate)to discuss sports

[Nowoco]

Duncan was one of the top 5 players in the league in his first season and won the chip with the team on his back in his second season. He then put it 20 years of consistency and success without a single major negative and was impeccable on and off the court.

No coach in NBA history would take LeBron over Duncan in a draft.