*Everything* should be free!!!!

[Ben Simmons 25]

https://i.postimg.cc/wTZghB32/1552562000005.jpg

[kennethgriffen]

maybe she just needs more lemon pledge

[stalkerforlife]

Do you think everyone should get a set amount every month to ensure they have access to housing? If they choose to blow that amount on alcohol and drugs, they simply just don't have housing.

Is it possible?

[Ben Simmons 25]

Do you think everyone should get a set amount every month to ensure they have access to housing? If they choose to blow that amount on alcohol and drugs, they simply just don't have housing.

Is it possible?

I actually don't think that. Life isn't fair.

However, you're in luck... automation is coming, progressively so, year by year... to the point that there will be such large amounts of unemployable people, I'm not sure that there's another option besides UBI. At least, not one that I've heard that has been suggested.

If we wipe out all of the low skill jobs such as food service, retail, sanitation, etc... and replace the people in those positions with robots, what are they going to do? Die? Because that's the option we'd be leaving them without some sort of guaranteed income. And that's not a solution. Because those people will rise up and rip the 1% out of their homes, drag them into the middle of the street and execute them.

I would love to hear an alternative solution, but the cold reality is that AI and robots are going to make the majority of the population unemployable before the century ends, if not far before that. It would seem that a guaranteed income is going to become a necessity.

There will always be stupid people. Not everyone is capable of going to college and getting a job that will be needed in the future. The math does not support that world view. Something will have to be done. Humanity will have to change. Capitalism and socialism are probably both coming to an end.

[Akrazotile]

I actually don't think that. Life isn't fair.

However, you're in luck... automation is coming, progressively so, year by year... to the point that there will be such large amounts of unemployable people, I'm not sure that there's another option besides UBI. At least, not one that I've heard that has been suggested.

If we wipe out all of the low skill jobs such as food service, retail, sanitation, etc... and replace the people in those positions with robots, what are they going to do? Die? Because that's the option we'd be leaving them without some sort of guaranteed income. And that's not a solution. Because those people will rise up and rip the 1% out of their homes, drag them into the middle of the street and execute them.

I would love to hear an alternative solution, but the cold reality is that AI and robots are going to make the majority of the population unemployable before the century ends, if not far before that. It would seem that a guaranteed income is going to become a necessity.




People with skills and civility should just all move to the same region of the country en masse. Let everyone else stay where they are and deal with things however they want.


It’s the only way.



THE ONLY WAY :crazysam:

[Ben Simmons 25]

[QUOTE=Akrazotile]People with skills and civility should just all move to the same region of the country en masse. Let everyone else stay where they are and deal with things however they want.


It

[Akrazotile]

:roll:




I was serious :cry:

[stalkerforlife]

I actually don't think that. Life isn't fair.

However, you're in luck... automation is coming, progressively so, year by year... to the point that there will be such large amounts of unemployable people, I'm not sure that there's another option besides UBI. At least, not one that I've heard that has been suggested.

If we wipe out all of the low skill jobs such as food service, retail, sanitation, etc... and replace the people in those positions with robots, what are they going to do? Die? Because that's the option we'd be leaving them without some sort of guaranteed income. And that's not a solution. Because those people will rise up and rip the 1% out of their homes, drag them into the middle of the street and execute them.

I would love to hear an alternative solution, but the cold reality is that AI and robots are going to make the majority of the population unemployable before the century ends, if not far before that. It would seem that a guaranteed income is going to become a necessity.

There will always be stupid people. Not everyone is capable of going to college and getting a job that will be needed in the future. The math does not support that world view. Something will have to be done. Humanity will have to change. Capitalism and socialism are probably both coming to an end.

I hate going to Wal-Mart these days; there's like two cashiers and everything else is self checkout with incredibly long lines. I'm seriously considering boycotting them, but that would be hard for a poor person like me.

Anyhow, I think everyone should get UBI because as you said, life isn't fair. Even Wal-Mart wouldn't hire a loser like me. Why should ugly and unintelligent people like me have to suffer? If there was no me, there would be no such thing as beauty or intelligence because there would be nothing to compare; I literally make people happy with my mere existence because they can compare themselves to me and feel good.

Ugly and stupid people deserve a lot of free money because we're the ones that make beauty and intelligence a reality for others.

[stalkerforlife]

And ugly people really need to be a protected class under law.

[Ben Simmons 25]

I hate going to Wal-Mart these days; there's like two cashiers and everything else is self checkout with incredibly long lines. I'm seriously considering boycotting them, but that would be hard for a poor person like me.

Anyhow, I think everyone should get UBI because as you said, life isn't fair. Even Wal-Mart wouldn't hire a loser like me. Why should ugly and unintelligent people like me have to suffer? If there was no me, there would be no such thing as beauty or intelligence because there would be nothing to compare; I literally make people happy with my mere existence because they can compare themselves to me and feel good.

Ugly and stupid people deserve a lot of free money because we're the ones that make beauty and intelligence a reality for others.

Wal-Marts near me have so many self checkouts that they actually offer a faster checkout experience than practically anywhere else now. It's actually insane. Roughly 15-20 machines near each entrance and a dozen or so in the middle of the store... maybe 1 or 2 actual cashiers. It's actually nuts. And it's working extremely well. I've never been able to get in and out of a Wal-Mart faster. But Wal-Mart sucks and I don't go there.

You should not get UBI only simply because life isn't fair. You should be getting UBI sooner than later because through no fault of your own, people in situations such as yours will 100% become unemployable.

The number of low skill jobs that will be permanently eradicated by technology will not magically appear elsewhere in society to some equilibrium which a lot of people think will just magically happen. No, they'll be unemployable.

Last time I checked you're in college, and while you are crazy, you're not entirely dumb. There is hope for you, so long as you didn't go to school for a job that's going to get replaced.

You should just quit college and study a trade such as plumbing, electrical work, etc... those jobs are a lot farther out to be automated away.

[Ben Simmons 25]

I was serious :cry:

Well... the biggest problem I see is that the fat cats won't be getting as fat as they are if the majority of the population is suddenly, or gradually... unemployable. Their sales numbers go down. Their profits go down. Shareholders aren't happy.

Interesting times indeed. I would love to see how this all plays out. I hope I live long enough to see the shit truly hit the fan and for there to be a resolution.

From a nihilistic and or "amoral" perspective, sure, all of the dregs of society should just be left to rot and fend for themselves... but this coming situation is to such an extreme degree that... it's just so... cold... to act that out.

[sammichoffate]

I thought Ben Simmons 25 got banned for that one post a few weeks ago lol

[Kblaze8855]

You have been a vastly overstating what robots are going to do. I think the issue is you conflate what a robot will be capable of with what it will be cost-efficient and accepted by the public to have one do.

I’m sure a robot could be designed to pluck the 3 delicate stamen from a flower to make saffron but it would be a monumental waste to put in the R&D to do it.

Machines aren’t gonna replace barbers, people who maintain houses, or babysit kids. Too many things that may not technically require human touch will still be demanded by the public. Too many things in retail require a human.

A machine could sell you a plumbing part but it won’t patiently tell you how to use it for your specific situation. Machines can cut meat and cook but humans won’t pay 160 dollars to pick food off a kiosk that gets made in a computerized kitchen and run out on a cart. Not consistently. You will always have a staff in a nice restaurant. Butchers and chefs and someone to explain to people what this and that new item are. And even when fast food has mostly kiosks a manager will have to be there for customer issues. Humans first responders willl always exist even as they gain automated help. There will still be movers to place a room together juuuuust so while an old lady complains it isn’t perfect yet.

And that site talking about will robots take your job?

It’s largely full of shit. No way robots take over security guards. Even ignoring the personal services of a bodyguard....

What robot is gonna be breaking up fights, cooking, and arranging blowjobs in a strip club like some security I’ve known?

These things presume that these jobs have only their core duty to tend to.

Humans want to be serviced well. The companies that keep people doing it will out compete the fully automated in most cases.

Yes I’d buy a new phone from a kiosk with a conveyor belt to bring it to me.

But I would not go buy what I need to fix my landscape lighting at one. I want to talk to someone who knows about buried low voltage wiring. I’m not coming to watch a how to video on the kiosk.

Some of the worst jobs would last just because people will do them for so little money it’s not worth making a machine that could.

I’m sure a machine can make nikes but they still have all their little tiny handed not quite slaves.

People will still have to sheer sheep, unroll silk worm cocoons, and maintain the appearance of others.

Humans will always be employable.

[NumberSix]

automation is coming, progressively so, year by year... to the point that there will be such large amounts of unemployable people, I'm not sure that there's another option besides UBI.
All technology does is free people up to do other things.

95% of the jobs people do today didn’t even exist 150 years ago. Most people were farmers. With farming machines, it became possible for a small amount of people to efficiently do all the farming.

Machines are not going to ‘eliminate’ all the hard labor jobs. It will just make it easier for small numbers of people to do the job cheaper and more efficiently. That’s why we now live in the technologically advanced world we have. Because people aren’t spending all their time doing farm work.

People will create new kinds of jobs and hire people to do those. I mean, these day being a “YouTuber” is a job.

[highwhey]

Wal-Marts near me have so many self checkouts that they actually offer a faster checkout experience than practically anywhere else now. It's actually insane. Roughly 15-20 machines near each entrance and a dozen or so in the middle of the store... maybe 1 or 2 actual cashiers. It's actually nuts. And it's working extremely well. I've never been able to get in and out of a Wal-Mart faster. But Wal-Mart sucks and I don't go there.

You should not get UBI only simply because life isn't fair. You should be getting UBI sooner than later because through no fault of your own, people in situations such as yours will 100% become unemployable.

The number of low skill jobs that will be permanently eradicated by technology will not magically appear elsewhere in society to some equilibrium which a lot of people think will just magically happen. No, they'll be unemployable.

Last time I checked you're in college, and while you are crazy, you're not entirely dumb. There is hope for you, so long as you didn't go to school for a job that's going to get replaced.

You should just quit college and study a trade such as plumbing, electrical work, etc... those jobs are a lot farther out to be automated away.
self checkouts are the way to go, wayyy faster experience.

only thing that sucks is when purchasing alcohol or cigs at walmart, gotta show the attendant your ID for beer and if you bguy cigs, you can't use self checkout, gotta go to the dedicated line for cigs.

isn't whole foods/amazon experimenting with no checkout at all? like you just put your goods in the basket and you will be charged on the spot or when you walk out with the goods. that's a whole new level of automation :eek:

http://fortune.com/2018/12/03/amazon-cashierless-stores-whole-foods-big/

[Ben Simmons 25]

You have been a vastly overstating what robots are going to do. I think the issue is you conflate what a robot will be capable of with what it will be cost-efficient and accepted by the public to have one do.

I’m sure a robot could be designed to pluck the 3 delicate stamen from a flower to make saffron but it would be a monumental waste to put in the R&D to do it.

Machines aren’t gonna replace barbers, people who maintain houses, or babysit kids. Too many things that may not technically require human touch will still be demanded by the public. Too many things in retail require a human.

A machine could sell you a plumbing part but it won’t patiently tell you how to use it for your specific situation. Machines can cut meat and cook but humans won’t pay 160 dollars to pick food off a kiosk that gets made in a computerized kitchen and run out on a cart. You will always have a staff in a nice restaurant. And even when fast food has mostly kiosks a manager will have to be there for customer issues. Humans first responders willl always exist even as they gain automated help. There will still be movers to place a room together juiiiist so while an old lady complains it isn’t perfect yet.

And that site talking about will robots take your job?

It’s largely full of shit. No way robots take over security guards. Even ignoring the personal services of a bodyguard....

What robot is gonna be breaking up fights, cooking, and arranging blowjobs in a strip club like some security I’ve known?

These things presume that these jobs have only their core duty to tend to.

Humans want to be serviced well. The companies that keep people doing it will out compete the fully automated in most cases.

Yes I’d buy a new phone from a kiosk with a conveyor belt to bring it to me.

But I would not go buy what I need to fix my landscape lighting at one. I want to talk to someone who knows about buried low voltage wiring. I’m not coming to watch a how to video on the kiosk.

Some of the worst jobs would last just because people will do them for so little money it’s not worth making a machine that could.

I’m sure a machine can make nikes but they still have all their little tiny handed not quite slaves.

People will still have to sheer sheep, unroll silk worm cocoons, and maintain the appearance of others.

Humans will always be employable.

You're giving niche examples. Of course there will always be employable humans. I never said otherwise.

What I am stating and implying is that well over 50% of the population will be unemployable within 100 years. I personally think it's more like 20-30 years, but my timeline could be off.

Barbers? 80%
Cooks? >90%
Plumbers are at 35%. Stretch this timeline out 200 years and it's 100%.
Security guards is "no way"? Haha... what's better? A guard that is 100% alert 100% of the time or a lazy human that falls asleep, demands a wage, healthcare, etc... and is largely inefficient. "No way"... that's rich.
Babysitters might actually be a good one... for now.
Housekeepers? 69%

That site isn't full of shit. You just want to believe that it is.

The full report can be read here...

https://www.oxfordmartin.ox.ac.uk/downloads/academic/future-of-employment.pdf


I don't know exactly how old you are so it's possible you will escape this life without it being an issue for you... as might I. If you don't think that the change humanity sees within 100 years as a result of evolving technology is beyond what we can exponentially fathom, we have nothing left to discuss. There's nothing I can say that will convince you otherwise.

[highwhey]

All technology does is free people up to do other things.

95% of the jobs people do today didn’t even exist 150 years ago. Most people were farmers. With farming machines, it became possible for a small amount of people to efficiently do all the farming.

People will create new kinds of jobs and hire people to do those. I mean, these day being a “YouTuber” is a job.
yeah but you're not taking into account next level automation integrated with AI.

you're thinking of a robot at a factory line allowing workers to focus on more detail jobs. what you're not considering is that we're at the very beginning of automation.

once automation and AI have developed enough to roll out on a mass scale, millions of jobs will be lost to them all at once.

up to this point, as in the present day, you're right. robots have not displaced too many workers out of a job, but that's bc automation is in its infancy stage. there will come a day, soon, where most factories will be just robots. as it stands, factories have a good amount of robots but they still need humans for detailed work...that won't be the case in the future.

[highwhey]

there are robots that can polish concrete by themselves now. it's a trade that required a skilled individual to manevur a very heavy (900-1200lb) concrete grinder that would progressively polish the floor, now the robots are programmed so that the individual can do it via a remote!

https://i.postimg.cc/C5nTHggr/concrete-polishing.jpg

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/4MPF6iBFcC4/maxresdefault.jpg

they're taking our jobs https://i.postimg.cc/QdQDyhWR/66546Op.gif

[Ben Simmons 25]

there are robots that can polish concrete by themselves now. it's a trade that required a skilled individual to manevur a very heavy (900-1200lb) concrete grinder that would progressively polish the floor, now the robots are programmed so that the individual can do it via a remote!

they're taking our jobs https://i.postimg.cc/QdQDyhWR/66546Op.gif

How long until the remote operator isn't even needed? 5 years? 10? Won't be more than that.

There are already consumer level goods that vacuum your floor without assistance for most of the process. Cars are getting ready to drive themselves. The time is nigh.

[iamgine]

As technology advances, there might not be a need for income anymore if one chooses to live simple. Basic food, clothes and housing will be provided for free for all citizens because it becomes very cheap to produce.

[highwhey]

How long until the remote operator isn't even needed? 5 years? 10? Won't be more than that.

There are already consumer level goods that vacuum your floor without assistance for most of the process. Cars are getting ready to drive themselves. The time is nigh.
not very long. these machines controlled via remote have been around since 2012. i think the next leap is like you said, no operator needed whatsoever, the tech to make it happen is already available.

the next 10 years will be very interesting. 2020-2030, we should see self driving roll out, increased automation, etc.

quantum computers would accelerate this tenfold btw. i think we will undergo a scientific revolution once quantum computers exist (real ones with the theoretic computing power that is claimed by many, not lab ones).

[Kblaze8855]

A robot security guard would have to either be sentient....or be linked to a human who could control it from elsewhere at need. Half of these would be. If we are going so far into the future that robots have reached star trek levels sure....everything can be done. But thats gonna take waaaaaaaaay longer than you seem to want to believe.

[Ben Simmons 25]

No, it’s not going to take way longer than I think. It’s going to be way quicker than YOU think.

The AI will be here in short order.

The robotic side of it will take longer, for sure, BUT it’s also probable that the AI hastens that process.

I find it to be very probable that I live to see it.

Look at 30 years ago... humanity was so much slower paced than it currently is that it’s mindblowing. Now take that pace of improvement and add a genuine AI on top of it that will self develop at an astronomically exponential rate... curious times indeed.

[Kblaze8855]

I think thats gonna be like flying cars and colonies on the moon. Doable but without the effort from all mankind needed to do it right at the speed predicted. We would need so many safeguards and advances to bring sentient robots into workplaces theres no way to do it quickly. If we cracked the technology in 20 years(and we wont) it would be another 30 to get people to accept it was safe. A sentient robot could watch your kids....mothers still wouldnt trust them till they had grown up in a world that had accepted it before their birth. A fleet of fully human level robots wouldnt just end some jobs....there would be no reason to do anything in the first world. We would all be floating around like the fat future people on Wall-E.

That isnt gonna happen soon....even ignoring that sentient robots would present a massive ethical issue. One of them would claim to be a slave.....

If you gave them true sense of self and ability to understand new situations like humans you would be creating a new super race. We would have to have them limited enough to do basic tasks but not challenge our idea of what life is. And that slim difference is what would make them unsuitable for many human tasks.

[Kblaze8855]

In the sense of meeting in the middle I will say this though.....

Wasnt long ago we thought driving required too much human instinct to have a robot do it. Clearly that isnt the case despite some problems(teaching them the difference between a plastic bag in the road and a child for one).

I think self driving cars will eventually totally replace human drivers...and not by choice. I think once we get to 5G and beyond(5 g cant go through walls...so thats a limit) cars will be so well interconnected it will be nearly unheard of to have an accident.....except with human drivers frustrated with them following the speed limit exactly and stopping for yellow lights.

I think insurance for humans will go so high that will price out most manual cars. When you have to pay 1200 a month because youre 300 times more likely to hit something than a robot car that is perfectly in tune with every other car inside 50 miles......you just say **** it and let the car drive.

Give it time they will consider human drivers too unsafe and not let you drive your own car even if you are willing to insure it at the insane rate. It will be like railroads. Even if you build a train you cant just drop it on the track and operate it without the government and a gang of companies giving you the OK and killing you with fees. Its deemed unsafe due to the level of automation. You would cause an accident with a computerized train that cant account for your shitty old style train being in its way off the network.

Cars are gonna be regulated like trains and planes. Be so expensive to get going it wouldnt be worth the trouble.

Our great grandkids wont even know how to drive.

[Ben Simmons 25]

We might see a Mars colony... that

[Kblaze8855]

No. Youre just wrong.

Wanna have another 60 rounds of that foolishness?

Whats the point of you even coming on a forum to operate like that?

If you know the future and how long things will take to come to pass beyond all doubt just be content in your infallibility. Surely you must know you cant convince people who dont have your superpowers so why even talk about the future with people who think it could go several ways?

You often do that "You just cant admit youre wrong!" shit about things that are not matters of fact. We are talking hypothetical future worlds.

There is no way to know anything for sure. We could have Data from star trek in 30 years or not for 300. You most definitely do not know even if you feel a need to act like you do. You think. I think.

We will see how it goes.

[NBAGOAT]

i disagree with a lot of op but machine learning is definitely coming along faster than people think(even though there are others out there who exaggerate how far along they are). Thing is more and more people are getting into stem fields like computer science and data science and everyone has some interest in AI. To quote a friend asking someone studying computer science if they're interested in AI is like asking a Christian if they're interested in God.

[Prometheus]

I can't wait until we put a man on Mars. What a historic moment that will be.

Just imagine several thousand years from now - we have terraformed and colonized Mars, and a war has broken out between our two planets.

:oldlol:

Or some controversy about whether or not it's fair for Earth-born basketball players to be allowed to sign a contract to play in a Mars league in 1/3 gravity...

[highwhey]

I can't wait until we put a man on Mars. What a historic moment that will be.

Just imagine several thousand years from now - we have terraformed and colonized Mars, and a war has broken out between our two planets.

:oldlol:

Or some controversy about whether or not it's fair for Earth-born basketball players to be allowed to sign a contract to play in a Mars league in 1/3 gravity...
i would pay any amount just to see space.

virgin airlines has made 2 space flights. i think their plan is to make it available for commercial use. i hope in our lifetime we get to see that happen.