Are We In A Simulated Universe?

[n00bie]

Have you guys seen the interviews of Elon Musk saying there's a 1 in a billion chance that we are NOT living in a simulated universe? The theory has been around for awhile now but it got a lot of attention after Elon Musk agreed with it.

Here's the theory:

40 years ago humans created pong. A basic game with 2 balls and 2 sticks. Now you look at the gaming world and it's almost impossible to tell reality from fiction. This advancement is all within 40 years. Imagine 100 to 200 years from now. We should have simulated universes that will be impossible to tell from reality.

There are only 3 possible outcomes for humanity:

1. Humans will go extinct before we can develop the technology for a simulated universe.
2. Humans will develop simulations but because of ethical reasons we are not permitted to create them.
3. Humans create simulated universes for entertainment. (Games, replacement for history books, etc.)

Now here's what would happen if outcome #3 occurs:

Similar to games like Grand Theft Auto, we will create characters that live in the simulated universe. They will have artificial intelligence so they'll have free will. They can do whatever they want in the game. Only restrictions are what the programmer assigns. (I.e. can't walk through walls, survive falls from tall buildings etc.)

Overtime, the characters in the game will advance their own technologies and create their own simulated universes. So there will be simulated universes in simulated universes etc. Now, what are the chances that we are living in the 1st real universe, and not the billions of simulations that will exist? 1 in a billion.

Here's why this theory actually makes sense:

- Artificial intelligence is just around the corner.
- This will explain why the universe keeps on expanding. (Code being added all the time)
- This explains why the universe is so big yet we are the only planet with life.
- Scientist have stated that if you break down anything in this world, everything is pretty much the same particle. Similar to the 0s and 1s in programming.

What do you guys think about this theory? Are we all just sims with artificial intelligence? Our God could be a programmer living in their parents basement. :eek:

[JEFFERSON MONEY]

Life is a test.

[n00bie]

Life is a test.

Or..we could all just be codes in a computer. Your code ends when you die.

[1987_Lakers]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gj47A7VBrvM

[FKAri]

It's likely but there's also some things to consider.

The possibility that there is no "real" Universe either or that there isn't a meaningful distinction between the 2. In that case does it even matter?

Do you need a conscious actor to simulate a Universe? Natural selection doesn't need one.

Then you have to consider the idea of God. If The Abrahamic God (singular) exists then isn't our Universe a simulation by definition?

Lastly, do you equate life with consciousness? We can't really define being alive as well as we can of being self aware. Then if you are self-aware, you are alive. But are we really self-aware?

[highwhey]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gj47A7VBrvM
the video talks about how we might be a simulation within a simulation since the orginal simulation species might have become advanced enough to create their own simulation.

narrator: so, you might be a simulation made by a hyper-advanced alien basement dweller or your creator may be known as a simulated alien nerd.

so simon is our creator.

[warriorfan]

BS. It doesn

[n00bie]

[QUOTE=warriorfan]BS. It doesn

[n00bie]

It's likely but there's also some things to consider.

The possibility that there is no "real" Universe either or that there isn't a meaningful distinction between the 2. In that case does it even matter?

Do you need a conscious actor to simulate a Universe? Natural selection doesn't need one.

Then you have to consider the idea of God. If The Abrahamic God (singular) exists then isn't our Universe a simulation by definition?

Lastly, do you equate life with consciousness? We can't really define being alive as well as we can of being self aware. Then if you are self-aware, you are alive. But are we really self-aware?

I agree. The idea of religion.. which is a being of higher intelligence that created the world and everything in it is no different than the simulation theory.

[Akrazotile]

Feels like this more and more to me lately.

[MaxFly]

I agree. The idea of religion.. which is a being of higher intelligence that created the world and everything in it is no different than the simulation theory.

To an extent, when you really think about it... yeah.

[warriorfan]

Which part?

All of it. It

[scuzzy]

Just doesn't seem so practical if everything we know is a simulation, we'd be bound to menial things like 3rd dimension and space time

Human biology and cellular life itself may seem complex to us, but to an infinite learning technology that supersedes and creates physics itself? We're boring

The process of evolution, or darwin is just an assholish program to create. Survival of the fittest, the most adaptable micro organism wins. We'll check back in a few million years for lulz

An infinite hyper learning technology creating simulation would be far more complex than the day to day reality we perceive imo

[kennethgriffen]

if this were the case there would be glitches in the matrix every now and then


but i've never seen anything out of the ordinary in my 34 years on this planet


the weirdest thing i ever saw was my kitchen tv turning off when i walked in my house when i was like 18-19. nobody was around. coulda just been the automatic timer though

[highwhey]

if this were the case there would be glitches in the matrix every now and then


but i've never seen anything out of the ordinary in my 34 years on this planet


the weirdest thing i ever saw was my kitchen tv turning off when i walked in my house when i was like 18-19. nobody was around. coulda just been the automatic timer though
since you're a homosexual, it's likely you're creator was homosexual as well. you're just abiding by dick law.

[bladefd]

I agree. The idea of religion.. which is a being of higher intelligence that created the world and everything in it is no different than the simulation theory.

This is why if any being came to us claiming to be god, we would have to be very careful because they could actually be an alien species from a higher dimension. They would essentially be like gods to us.

Then again, they would be so far beyond us that resistance would be futile. We would be like ants to them. Perhaps they may not even detect us and pass us by as too primitive of a species.. We don't go out of our way to try to speak to ants lol so why would they stop to communicate with us? We are no use or value to them.

It also raises a very scary possibility.. Perhaps we are truly alone in our universe. Here's how.. In our most complex simulations, we don't create entire universes. We can't possibly store an entire universe into compressed set of files so we just simulate a single world and assume that's all there is in that entire universe and everything beyond is empty space. Now think about our universe. If our universe is simulated then maybe we are the only ones simulated with everything beyond our world mostly empty space? We can observe stars and planets but they all were a singular point many billions of years ago. We know for a fact that most of what is beyond Earth is nothing but empty space. So maybe we are alone after all in our universe?

We would need to go a dimension above to even find an alien species and they another dimension up. Essentially it would be one species per not only dimension but universe, and we would never be able to communicate with beings from other universes, only dimensions. Think of it like this - you can't see gta5 universe characters trying to speak with gta6 universe characters since the two universes will never bisect, but you can see gta5 characters trying to communicate with us since we are a dimension up - their universe is directly linked to us (we created them!).

[n00bie]

[QUOTE=warriorfan]All of it. It

[RoseCity07]

That's not even an interesting question because even if we were in one, that simulation would just be running on machines of some sort. It's doesn't really matter.

[n00bie]

This is why if any being came to us claiming to be god, we would have to be very careful because they could actually be an alien species from a higher dimension. They would essentially be like gods to us.

Then again, they would be so far beyond us that resistance would be futile. We would be like ants to them. Perhaps they may not even detect us and pass us by as too primitive of a species.. We don't go out of our way to try to speak to ants lol so why would they stop to communicate with us? We are no use or value to them.

It also raises a very scary possibility.. Perhaps we are truly alone in our universe. Here's how.. In our most complex simulations, we don't create entire universes. We can't possibly store an entire universe into compressed set of files so we just simulate a single world and assume that's all there is in that entire universe and everything beyond is empty space. Now think about our universe. If our universe is simulated then maybe we are the only ones simulated with everything beyond our world mostly empty space? We can observe stars and planets but they all were a singular point many billions of years ago. We know for a fact that most of what is beyond Earth is nothing but empty space. So maybe we are alone after all in our universe?

We would need to go a dimension above to even find an alien species and they another dimension up. Essentially it would be one species per not only dimension but universe, and we would never be able to communicate with beings from other universes, only dimensions. Think of it like this - you can't see gta5 universe characters trying to speak with gta6 universe characters since the two universes will never bisect, but you can see gta5 characters trying to communicate with us since we are a dimension up - their universe is directly linked to us (we created them!).

Makes a lot of sense actually. If someone was to create a simulation it most likely will just be 1 planet.. again theres so many different simulations that others may have aliens in them.. or give our simulation time and we might colonize other planets like Mars. Just depends on the stage the simulation is at.

The simulation theory makes other "dimensions" possible.

[DCL]

elon musk is a pretty smart guy but he also has a history of completely talking out of his ass just for the hell of it.

joe rogan, on the other hand, is someone with a very very average mind who is incapable of asking sophisticated questions that challenge extraordinary ideas.

[n00bie]

elon musk is a pretty smart guy but he also has a history of completely talking out of his ass just for the hell of it.

joe rogan, on the other hand, is someone with a very very ordinary mind who is incapable of asking sophisticated questions that challenge extraordinary ideas.

Yes that's true but he didn't come up with the theory. It was a scientist that came up with this years ago. I mean.. when you think about it, what is more believable? An invisible being named God created everything in 7 days and we all go to heaven when we die... or humans create artificial intelligence?

[DCL]

Yes that's true but he didn't come up with the theory. It was a scientist that came up with this years ago. I mean.. when you think about it, what is more believable? An invisible being named God created everything in 7 days and we all go to heaven when we die... or humans create artificial intelligence?

how come you only allow two possibilities?

where's option c and the rest?

[n00bie]

how come you only allow two possibilities?

where's option c and the rest?

Well in my original post there were 3 possibilities. I honestly dont believe the 2nd possibility works. Humans don't give a fk about ethics.

Look at the huge particle collider they built. Scientist claims theres a small chance it'll create a black hole but they did it anyway. Science is more important than risking the extinction of the whole planet right?

Even something like drones. They are dangerous but we allow it. You now can have a kid fly a drone and drop it on someone's head. Technology curiosity will always win over ethics. That's just how we are programmed.. A.I. is coming whether you like it or not.

[iamgine]

Yes that's true but he didn't come up with the theory. It was a scientist that came up with this years ago. I mean.. when you think about it, what is more believable? An invisible being named God created everything in 7 days and we all go to heaven when we die... or humans create artificial intelligence?
Logically, if God is indeed the creator of everything, the human mind would not be able to understand God. We have too limited of a brain capacity and senses. It would be like an ant trying to understand human, only much worse.

I'm not sure why human creating simulations in a computer changes anything about the chances that we are in a simulation.

[tpols]

Who cares either way. go live yo npc life

[bladefd]

Logically, if God is indeed the creator of everything, the human mind would not be able to understand God. We have too limited of a brain capacity and senses. It would be like an ant trying to understand human, only much worse.

I'm not sure why human creating simulations in a computer changes anything about the chances that we are in a simulation.

How would we even be able to differentiate between God and a higher dimension alien species?

Secondly, if simulation theory holds true then the species who simulated us would be essentially Gods to us because they would be our creators, just like we would be Gods to the characters in gta5..

[Ben Simmons 25]

How would we even be able to differentiate between God and a higher dimension alien species?

Secondly, if simulation theory holds true then the species who simulated us would be essentially Gods to us because they would be our creators, just like we would be Gods to the characters in gta5..

Who's to say we aren't literal NPCs in a simulation?

And let's just toss out the simulation theory entirely for a second.

Your personality... everything about you, who you are, why you are the way you are, etc... it's all a combination of genetics and environmental factors, no?

So if we're just our genes and our environments, if you really delve into that line of thought... do we even have free will? Do we actually make any choices or do we just perceive ourselves to be making choices?

As I type this, it really does seem like I'm making the decision to type it... but if everything that caused me to be me resulted in me having these thoughts and typing them out, then I didn't make any decisions... I'm just along for the ride.

It's a trip.

Simulation or no simulation, I do believe free will is a 100% illusion.

[warriorfan]

Who's to say we aren't literal NPCs in a simulation?

And let's just toss out the simulation theory entirely for a second.

Your personality... everything about you, who you are, why you are the way you are, etc... it's all a combination of genetics and environmental factors, no?

So if we're just our genes and our environments, if you really delve into that line of thought... do we even have free will? Do we actually make any choices or do we just perceive ourselves to be making choices?

As I type this, it really does seem like I'm making the decision to type it... but if everything that caused me to be me resulted in me having these thoughts and typing them out, then I didn't make any decisions... I'm just along for the ride.

It's a trip.

Simulation or no simulation, I do believe free will is a 100% illusion.

I can get behind this. The simulation shit is pretty bunk in my opinion but the free will question is a lot more tangible. Think of anyone who you have regarded as a loser in your life. You think that was their manifested destiny? What is the difference between them and you? Did you have more god given gifts or did you just

[Ben Simmons 25]

[QUOTE=warriorfan]I can get behind this. The simulation shit is pretty bunk in my opinion but the free will question is a lot more tangible. Think of anyone who you have regarded as a loser in your life. You think that was their manifested destiny? What is the difference between them and you? Did you have more god given gifts or did you just

[sbw19]

You have control over your actions but it is not absolute. If you don't want to eat an apple before say 9am, your hand will not betray you. You have options, they are not illusory just because you dicarded all but one at a particular time for example. But they ARE dictated by a set of ever-changing internal and external variables unknown to you.

So while you do have input into your own action, from the perspective of someone who knows ALL the variables pertaining your decision making, a God/Creator/etc, your action is not arbitrary, it is not by chance, whim, or unforseen circumstance. Foresight here however doesn't negate choice, since it's merely the result of an accurate appraisal of everything that goes into how we make our own choices.

This whole discussion reminds me a bit of Steven Meretzky's A Mind Forever Voyaging (https://brokenforum.com/index.php?threads/lets-play-a-mind-forever-voyaging.4266/) which explores similar motifs.

[warriorfan]

You have control over your actions but it is not absolute. If you don't want to eat an apple before say 9am, your hand will not betray you. You have options, they are not illusory just because you dicarded all but one at a particular time for example. But they ARE dictated by a set of ever-changing internal and external variables unknown to you.

So while you do have input into your own action, from the perspective of someone who knows ALL the variables pertaining your decision making, a God/Creator/etc, your action is not arbitrary, it is not by chance, whim, or unforseen circumstance. Foresight here however doesn't negate choice, since it's merely the result of an accurate appraisal of everything that goes into how we make our own choices.

This whole discussion reminds me a bit of Steven Meretzky's A Mind Forever Voyaging (https://brokenforum.com/index.php?threads/lets-play-a-mind-forever-voyaging.4266/) which explores similar motifs.

Your experiences that lead you to the train of thinking of wether or not to eat the apple before 9 were not entirely of your own though. You got to this point of reasoning largly due to factors you had no control over. Therefor you Did not have complete control, not free will. Good post btw though. I’m not necessarily on one side when it comes to this discussion. Playing a bit of devils advocate at this point. It is a very interesting discussion from both sides however.

[Draz]

Honestly. Any idea is an idea worth thinking about. We have no clue why were here. If we are the only ones. It gets even more sketchy when we think about the possibility of God and if God exists who created God.

Nothing makes sense.

[JEFFERSON MONEY]

You have control over your actions but it is not absolute. If you don't want to eat an apple before say 9am, your hand will not betray you. You have options, they are not illusory just because you dicarded all but one at a particular time for example. But they ARE dictated by a set of ever-changing internal and external variables unknown to you.

So while you do have input into your own action, from the perspective of someone who knows ALL the variables pertaining your decision making, a God/Creator/etc, your action is not arbitrary, it is not by chance, whim, or unforseen circumstance. Foresight here however doesn't negate choice, since it's merely the result of an accurate appraisal of everything that goes into how we make our own choices.

This whole discussion reminds me a bit of Steven Meretzky's A Mind Forever Voyaging (https://brokenforum.com/index.php?threads/lets-play-a-mind-forever-voyaging.4266/) which explores similar motifs.

Excellent post.

[JEFFERSON MONEY]

Honestly. Any idea is an idea worth thinking about. We have no clue why were here. If we are the only ones. It gets even more sketchy when we think about the possibility of God and if God exists who created God.

Nothing makes sense.

You know where to go to start searching for answers. :D

https://i.pinimg.com/736x/ef/1c/87/ef1c87a6eb83bf0d2db7a2ea1e7478e7.jpg

[Draz]

You know where to go to start searching for answers. :D

https://i.pinimg.com/736x/ef/1c/87/ef1c87a6eb83bf0d2db7a2ea1e7478e7.jpg

But who created 'HE'

And why can't it be 'SHE'

[iamgine]

How would we even be able to differentiate between God and a higher dimension alien species?

Who said we are able to? We may not. It might be above our understanding.

[n00bie]

But who created 'HE'

And why can't it be 'SHE'

So true. The human brain is so limited we'll never understand the concept of how God came to be.

[Doctor K]

I think the idea that we are not in a simulated universe being 1/1 billion is laughable. First of all, where did the 1 billion number even come from? I'm not asking why exactly 1 billion, but why not 1 million or 1 trillion? Is there any math behind this number? Seems like it was just pulled straight out of someone's @ss.

2nd, just think about any time in our history we were 'so sure' (999999999/1000000000 in this case) we knew how the world actually is were we actually right? Right now this is just a theory, but 2000 years ago we also had theories that seemed right to us logically during those times. How close were we? The theories we have 2000 years later the people 2000 years ago would not even be able to comprehend. And do you actually believe (with 99.999999% certainty) that in 2000 more years this theory we are coming up with today is correct? :lol


The truth is we don't know. And we will never know in our life time and its certainly beyond our comprehension today. And there is 1 out of 1 billion chance that is not the case