If Jordan wasn't 1-9 in the 1st round Pre-Pip

[TheCorporation]

Would he have more playoff points?

[TheCorporation]

Anyone?

[jstern]

If Pippen hadn't gotten a headache for game 7, then the Bulls could have possibly 4peated, with Jordan scoring more points. Pippen shot 1 for 10 in that game.

Of course if Jordan played in a historically weak East then he would have scored more points also. So it really all depends on circumstances.

Also if Jordan was less clutch, while playing in a historically weak East, rather than always performing at full force on each and every game, and not quitting when tired, then he probably would had also scored more points always having to play one extra game. Like last year against Indiana, when Lebron visibly quit in game 6, despite still putting up great stat lines.

[TheCorporation]

If Pippen hadn't gotten a headache for game 7, then the Bulls could have possibly 4peated, with Jordan scoring more points. Pippen shot 1 for 10 in that game.

Of course if Jordan played in a historically weak East then he would have scored more points also. So it really all depends on circumstances.

Also if Jordan was less clutch, while playing in a historically weak East, rather than always performing at full force on each and every game, and not quitting when tired, then he probably would had also scored more points always having to play one extra game. Like last year against Indiana, when Lebron visibly quit in game 6, despite still putting up great stat lines.

Oh okay, so Jordan scored less points than LBJ on more shot attempts and he was an abysmal 1 for 9 in the playoffs before Scottie Pippen was on the Bulls?

Anything else?

[jstern]

Oh okay, so Jordan scored less points than LBJ on more shot attempts and he was an abysmal 1 for 9 in the playoffs before Scottie Pippen was on the Bulls?

Anything else?

Jordan scored more points than Lebron James, taking less three pointers, in the same span of games. Getting swept as an 8th seed against a top 3 GOAT team, while getting called God by Larry Bird, and scoring a record playoff high 63 points while taking zero 3 pointers.

Compared that to Lebron, getting swept by teams that should be his equal or beneath him level.

Another interesting fact is that Jordan never lost as a favorite, he's something like 24 for 24. Meanwhile Lebron was losing in his prime against the likes of Dwight freaking Howard while on a 66 win team, and the while being the league MVP.

I think there was a thread about that. Here it goes http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=459570

[TheCorporation]

Jordan scored more points than Lebron James, taking less three pointers, in the same span of games. Getting swept as an 8th seed against a top 3 GOAT team, while getting called God by Larry Bird, and scoring a record playoff high 63 points while taking zero 3 pointers.

Compared that to Lebron, getting swept by teams that should be his equal or beneath him level.

Another interesting fact is that Jordan never lost as a favorite, he's something like 24 for 24. Meanwhile Lebron was losing in his prime against the likes of Dwight freaking Howard while on a 66 win team, and the while being the league MVP.

I think there was a thread about that. Here it goes http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=459570


https://i.postimg.cc/qvdXCs2H/Screenshot-20190315-093204-Phonto.jpg

[Overdrive]

Would he have more playoff points?

If every first round series was best of 7 he would have 400 to 1500 more points.

[TheCorporation]

If every first round series was best of 7 he would have 400 to 1500 more points.

But then he wouldn't be 1/9 he would be 1/12 :eek:

[Overdrive]

But then he wouldn't be 1/9 he would be 1/12 :eek:

So? You can not get back at me. I don't like Jordan, Kobe or Lebron. :lol

[TheCorporation]

So? You can not get back at me. I don't like Jordan, Kobe or Lebron. :lol

I'm not trying to get back at you :lol

I'm simply saying he would be even more pathetic at 1/12 than he is at 1/9

[Overdrive]

I'm not trying to get back at you :lol

I'm simply saying he would be even more pathetic at 1/12 than he is at 1/9

Might, might not. He might've taken a game or two and even scored more. Doesn't matter anyway for his resume. The NBA increasing playoff games totally warped the career stats of players like Kobe(although there were still best of 5s halfway through his career), Lebron, KD, etc compared to others.

That's like the NBA increasing the RS to 116 games and then future players overtaking the current top 5 and being touted as the greatest scorers ever.

[Shaquille O'Neal]

Not this $hit again....:facepalm


Only on ISH does Lebron get a pass shooting 22.0 PPG on .356 shooting in his 4th NBA season in the finals, yet MJ gets beat up for missing 64 games in his 2nd year and dropping 47PPG on 40-1 at home Boston with Orlando Woolridge as his 2nd best player.


:facepalm:facepalm

[Akrazotile]

https://i.postimg.cc/qvdXCs2H/Screenshot-20190315-093204-Phonto.jpg


“But but but muh eastern conference competition in the 80s!!!”


“We wanna give Jordan a pass for tough competition in the conference, but no pass for Lebron for facing the toughest finals competition ever!!!! We have to preserve Baldan’s mystique!!!!!!”

[Overdrive]

[QUOTE=Akrazotile]

[Akrazotile]

Tough competition helps total scoring numbers.



.... which is why LeBeautiful has the highest playoff scoring total then?



:lebronamazed:

[Overdrive]

.... which is why LeBeautiful has the highest playoff scoring total then?



:lebronamazed:

Yeah, surprise he played more games

[Akrazotile]

Yeah, surprise he played more games


Yeah, because the competition was much harder to sweep.

Sounds like we agree.

['Toine=MVP]

Ban this kid's IP address.

[Leviathon1121]

Still the consensus GOAT, keep trying wheels.

[3ball]

Not necessarily. He might've averaged less ppg in the next round against better competition

And MJ was 1-9 because he was facing a Warriors-level team with an 8 seed, yet still doing better than lebron's sweeps and record defeat with 2 seeds.

LeFraud isn't on MJ's level, or Bird's or Kobe's among others

[LostCause]

This will all be irrelevant if LeBron misses the playoffs again in his career, btw

Already up to 3x. Which is more than Jordan can say. Missing them for 4 years is entirely indefensible, good luck pushing 1-9 at that point (Even now it's kinda fruitless with Bron missing the postseason this year)

[Shaquille O'Neal]

Not necessarily. He might've averaged less ppg in the next round against better competition

And MJ was 1-9 because he was facing a Warriors-level team with an 8 seed, yet still doing better than lebron's sweeps and record defeat with 2 seeds.

LeFraud isn't on MJ's level, or Bird's or Kobe's among others

The '86 Celtics would demolish any year Warriors team, especially 15 and 16.

[superduper]

Most insecure poster on ISH :oldlol:

[TheCorporation]

Yeah, surprise he played more games

Okay so what ****ed-up world are we living in where we're penalizing someone for making nine finals :lol

Are you actually saying that Jordan getting swept in the first round three times benefited him :lol

[TheCorporation]

Not necessarily. He might've averaged less ppg in the next round against better competition

And MJ was 1-9 because he was facing a Warriors-level team with an 8 seed, yet still doing better than lebron's sweeps and record defeat with 2 seeds.

LeFraud isn't on MJ's level, or Bird's or Kobe's among others

Of course he's not on their level, he already passed them. What don't you understand?

[Overdrive]

Okay so what ****ed-up world are we living in where we're penalizing someone for making nine finals :lol

Are you actually saying that Jordan getting swept in the first round three times benefited him :lol

No, I'm not penalizing him for that, but in two of the wins he played 7 games, winning or losing coming down to 1 shot. Pretty sure without checking Lebron went to the maximum games of a series way more often than Jordan. Nefore any Jordan stans chimes in. Jordan played more finals games/series on average.

I'm just applying context just like you guys try to when it comes to the opponents. Lebron isn't the better scorer he just played more games.

[FKAri]

If Pippen hadn't gotten a headache for game 7, then the Bulls could have possibly 4peated, with Jordan scoring more points. Pippen shot 1 for 10 in that game.

Of course if Jordan played in a historically weak East then he would have scored more points also. So it really all depends on circumstances.

Also if Jordan was less clutch, while playing in a historically weak East, rather than always performing at full force on each and every game, and not quitting when tired, then he probably would had also scored more points always having to play one extra game. Like last year against Indiana, when Lebron visibly quit in game 6, despite still putting up great stat lines.

Yup. All Pippen's fault.

https://images.solecollector.com/complex/image/upload/m7tdrq1uqt9yxrjdnjne.jpg

[TheCorporation]

Yup. All Pippen's fault.

https://images.solecollector.com/complex/image/upload/m7tdrq1uqt9yxrjdnjne.jpg

Scapegoat Pippen

Good find, FKAri.

Nice try Jordan stans :no:

[TheCorporation]

No, I'm not penalizing him for that, but in two of the wins he played 7 games, winning or losing coming down to 1 shot. Pretty sure without checking Lebron went to the maximum games of a series way more often than Jordan. Nefore any Jordan stans chimes in. Jordan played more finals games/series on average.

I'm just applying context just like you guys try to when it comes to the opponents. Lebron isn't the better scorer he just played more games.

Yeahhhhhh


Or just don't got 1 for 10 in the playoffs before Scottie Pippen...

[jstern]

Yup. All Pippen's fault.

https://images.solecollector.com/complex/image/upload/m7tdrq1uqt9yxrjdnjne.jpg
Oh come on, don't tell me you're in a wheelchair.

I don't blame people, I just focus on facts, cause and effect. Pippen had a bad headache, shot 1 for 10 as a result. If not perhaps the Bulls would have beaten the eventual world champions. Thus why they could have 4peated. (Though who knows, it changes the course of history.)

Now I've talked to you about Jordan's focus before. And what always pops into my mind when that moment where Nick Anderson stole the ball from him is how high of a level the NBA really is, more so than the fans can imagine, because despite scoring those 55 points against the Knicks, and how skillful Jordan looked superficially, Jordan talked about how that was a turnover that would have never happened in the past, a mistake that wouldn't had happened in the past, that mentally he was not at the level he's accustomed to be.

To me that's insane, beyond interesting. That mental level that a Jordan played with, and a 17 games comeback was just not enough to be at that level. It's just something that we are not going to be able to relate, understand, because we don't get to play basketball for so many hours, at such a high level, and at such skills. (For the record, here's the 55 point game https://youtu.be/oyzoqM4k78k?t=9 that person with such skills is still not mentally there to dominate at that level.)

That focus is my interest, so it's something that I think a lot about with Lebron. Not only did Jordan had a level of focus that not many humans have. Not even Larry Bird. Perhaps it's a genetic mutation. But Lebron doesn't have that level of focus, nobody does, yet he's trying to go Hollywood right now in LA, with so many off the court activities, Twitter, etc.

Look at this gif

https://media.giphy.com/media/ZgPfdNGR0Ly6439e8n/giphy.gif

Again, it's my interest, so when I first saw that happened I thought of Jordan and how optimal Jordan always was. It's just abnormal and Lebron James cannot compare mentally. (Again, nobody can.)

[TheCorporation]

This information will undoubtedly shock some of you and will just make others say "well, duh, it's the King."

Here it is, the updated GmScore rank for the top 5 best Finals performances in NBA history:

https://i.postimg.cc/Hkh2X232/Gm-Score-Rank-updated.jpg


LeBron is the only player in NBA history who appears more than once in the top 5.

[SouBeachTalents]

Magic's Game 6 in 1980 had a higher gamescore than LeBron's Game 5 in 2016

[TheCorporation]

Magic's Game 6 in 1980 had a higher gamescore than LeBron's Game 5 in 2016

You are correct sir, thanks for that :cheers:

[And1AllDay]

Hol up where is MJ?

#1 Bron :eek:
#2 Bron :eek:
#3 Duncan
#4 Durant
#5 Magic
#6 Bron :eek:
#7 Mike


Oh there he is :(

[LostCause]

What happens if you do it for entire series? How's that Top 5 look I wonder

(Also LOL@ Ranking by GameScore anyway)

[SouBeachTalents]

What happens if you do it for entire series? How's that Top 5 look I wonder

(Also LOL@ Ranking by GameScore anyway)
Top 5 Finals by gamescore

1. 2000 Shaq
2. 2017 Durant
3. 2002 Shaq
4. 2017 LeBron
5. 1993 Jordan

Next 5

6. 1991 Jordan
7. 2018 LeBron
8. 1987 Magic
9. 2001 Shaq
10. 2018 Durant

[Manny98]

This information will undoubtedly shock some of you and will just make others say "well, duh, it's the King."

Here it is, the updated GmScore rank for the top 5 best Finals performances in NBA history:

https://i.postimg.cc/Hkh2X232/Gm-Score-Rank-updated.jpg


LeBron is the only player in NBA history who appears more than once in the top 5.
:bowdown: :bowdown:

[Doranku]

Top 5 Finals by gamescore

1. 2000 Shaq
2. 2017 Durant
3. 2002 Shaq
4. 2017 LeBron
5. 1993 Jordan

Next 5

6. 1991 Jordan
7. 2018 LeBron
8. 1987 Magic
9. 2001 Shaq
10. 2018 Durant

2 of these are not like the others :lol

[SouBeachTalents]

2 of these are not like the others :lol
I actually think gamescore is more accurate than others believe it to be, but when you see shit like LeBron & Durant from last year in the top 10 and ranked ahead of LeBron's 2016, you see the obvious flaws on ranking it strictly by that. Like any other stat, context is definitely needed

[LostCause]

Top 5 Finals by gamescore

1. 2000 Shaq
2. 2017 Durant
3. 2002 Shaq
4. 2017 LeBron
5. 1993 Jordan



4 and 5 should be equal at 29.6

But I'm curious why the sudden favor toward GameScore though, it's basically just a simplified version of PER without accounting for pace

[TheCorporation]

Top 5 Finals by gamescore

1. 2000 Shaq
2. 2017 Durant
3. 2002 Shaq
4. 2017 LeBron
5. 1993 Jordan

Next 5

6. 1991 Jordan
7. 2018 LeBron
8. 1987 Magic
9. 2001 Shaq
10. 2018 Durant

Also, top 10 greatest 3-game stretch in NBA history:

https://i.postimg.cc/0j9kn7ZW/top-10-gmsc.png

[TheCorporation]

:bowdown: :bowdown:

Top 2 greatest Finals games ever
PLUS
Greatest 3 game stretch in NBA history :bowdown:

[LostCause]

Also, top 10 greatest 3-game stretch in NBA history:

https://i.postimg.cc/kGTjZdFr/3game-stretch.png

Kobe is honorable mention

Lol what kind of obscure, bottom-of-the-barrel stat-hunting is this? Who cares about a 3-game stretch :oldlol: . Why not just the series

What's next: LeBron has the greatest GameScore of any player who has 3 kids from the same woman he went to highschool with?

[FKAri]

Oh come on, don't tell me you're in a wheelchair.

I don't blame people, I just focus on facts, cause and effect. Pippen had a bad headache, shot 1 for 10 as a result. If not perhaps the Bulls would have beaten the eventual world champions. Thus why they could have 4peated. (Though who knows, it changes the course of history.)

Now I've talked to you about Jordan's focus before. And what always pops into my mind when that moment where Nick Anderson stole the ball from him is how high of a level the NBA really is, more so than the fans can imagine, because despite scoring those 55 points against the Knicks, and how skillful Jordan looked superficially, Jordan talked about how that was a turnover that would have never happened in the past, a mistake that wouldn't had happened in the past, that mentally he was not at the level he's accustomed to be.

To me that's insane, beyond interesting. That mental level that a Jordan played with, and a 17 games comeback was just not enough to be at that level. It's just something that we are not going to be able to relate, understand, because we don't get to play basketball for so many hours, at such a high level, and at such skills. (For the record, here's the 55 point game https://youtu.be/oyzoqM4k78k?t=9 that person with such skills is still not mentally there to dominate at that level.)

That focus is my interest, so it's something that I think a lot about with Lebron. Not only did Jordan had a level of focus that not many humans have. Not even Larry Bird. Perhaps it's a genetic mutation. But Lebron doesn't have that level of focus, nobody does, yet he's trying to go Hollywood right now in LA, with so many off the court activities, Twitter, etc.

Look at this gif

https://media.giphy.com/media/ZgPfdNGR0Ly6439e8n/giphy.gif

Again, it's my interest, so when I first saw that happened I thought of Jordan and how optimal Jordan always was. It's just abnormal and Lebron James cannot compare mentally. (Again, nobody can.)
Well, yea MJ's the GOAT. I watched him play. I just don't like how he's become mythologized. He's not untouchable.

[TheCorporation]

Lol what kind of obscure, bottom-of-the-barrel stat-hunting is this? Who cares about a 3-game stretch :oldlol: . Why not just the series

What's next: LeBron has the greatest GameScore of any player who has 3 kids from the same woman he went to highschool with?

-Greatest single game
-Second greatest single game
-Greatest 2 game stretch (random, but sure)
-Greatest 3 game stretch

[LostCause]

Also, top 10 greatest 3-game stretch in NBA history:

https://i.postimg.cc/kGTjZdFr/3game-stretch.png

Kobe is honorable mention

Also this is wrong anyway :oldlol:

This was just a random test from 93

https://i.imgur.com/RA6VHwr.png

Doesn't even show up on your list, so it's pretty clear you're not a reliable source for information lmao

[TheCorporation]

Also this is wrong anyway :oldlol:

This was just a random test from 93

https://i.imgur.com/RA6VHwr.png

Doesn't even show up on your list, so it's pretty clear you're not a reliable source for information lmao

Uh you been drinking drugs?

https://media.giphy.com/media/DTelo9e116NTG/giphy.gif

[AirFederer]

2011 shit stain

[TheCorporation]

double post

[AirFederer]

0/2011

[TheCorporation]

2011 shit stain

We get it.

You're mad LeBron passed Kobe up years ago.

My condolences

[warriorfan]

Imagine Lebron winning more finals than he lost

[SouBeachTalents]

Also this is wrong anyway :oldlol:

This was just a random test from 93

https://i.imgur.com/RA6VHwr.png

Doesn't even show up on your list, so it's pretty clear you're not a reliable source for information lmao
Lol, I legit was just doing that too, because that shit looked like it was definitely not accurate

Just for reference

2006 Wade Games 4-6: 29

2011 Wade Games 2-4: 28.9

I bet there's like half a dozen others that are missing too

[TheCorporation]

Lol, I legit was just doing that too, because that list looked like it was definitely not accurate

Just for reference

2006 Wade Games 4-6: 29

2011 Wade Games 2-4: 28.9

I bet there's like half a dozen others that are missing too

To be honest I only checked the ten years you mentioned in your post.

I should include Wade for sure

https://i.postimg.cc/0j9kn7ZW/top-10-gmsc.png

[TheCorporation]

Lol, I legit was just doing that too, because that shit looked like it was definitely not accurate

Just for reference

2006 Wade Games 4-6: 29

2011 Wade Games 2-4: 28.9

I bet there's like half a dozen others that are missing too

Thanks for correcting me :cheers: WADE added :bowdown:

I didn't check every player ever, I only checked the ten you listed as the top 10, I should have thought to check Wade though.

Maybe Hakeem has a few up there, too? I know Bird wont :lol

[Manny98]

LostCause fuming that LeBron is the GOAT finals performer :lol

[TheCorporation]

LostCause fuming that LeBron is the GOAT finals performer :lol

He cannot accept it :lol

UPDATED, for 3-game stretches:

https://i.postimg.cc/XvgDFFG7/Gm-SC-update-1.png

[Overdrive]

Well, yea MJ's the GOAT. I watched him play. I just don't like how he's become mythologized. He's not untouchable.

Absolutely. Jordan, albeit being GOAT, is severely overrated imo. He just as anybody had flaws, his career wasn't perfect, but out of anyone I've seen it was the closest. Atm alot of guys are starting to mythologize Lebron, but we can see his way more obvious right before our eyes. Everything his guys can come up is:

-He scored more points(on more games)
-He won against a 73 win team. If you try often enough you eventually win. He won 1 out of four against the Warriors. Realistically the Warriors weren't 3 times better than the Cavs. Them having a 4 game winning stretch within 7 games in 28 possible meetings is highly likely. Of course Lebron was great in G5-G7, but so was Kyrie and the rest of the Cavs. His stats are always brought up, but him having a 2nd option dropping 1st option numbers without disrupting Lebron's game while killing Curry was a huge factor. Most legends don't have that luxury. Most legends' 2nd option was some 20ppg max dude you'd not had given the ball in the last possession.

For me Lebron just has no argument over Jordan although he is a way nicer guy - although still a passive aggressive dick sometimes - than that creepy Hitlerbeard wearing psycho.

[SomeBlackDude]

"I'm here to tell n*ggaz it ain't all swell. There's heaven, then there's hell, n*ggaz"



https://i.postimg.cc/76n0mPfC/Worst-Finals-Le-Bron.jpg

https://i.postimg.cc/2yqj32Rz/Bron-Terry-Finals.jpg


*Statistically, we just saw the most lopsided NBA Finals ever. The Warriors swept the series while outscoring the Cavaliers by a combined 60 points, the largest Finals margin of victory ever.

2018 finals
dubs- 116 ppg
lescrubs- 101 ppg
-15 margin is largest in nba finals history




In fact, the average point differential between the Warriors and the Cavs [in 2018] was the largest in NBA Finals history at 15 points. Coincidentally, the second-highest average margin of victory in the NBA Finals ever was 14 in 2014 when the Spurs trounced LeBron and the Heat during his final season in Miami.

letwo face

https://media.giphy.com/media/uTAKcsVUpaCkg/giphy.gif

"heads it's a good finals. tails it's an all time worst."

*6/9 times. it's tails. :ohwell:

[TheCorporation]

How does one guy have the top three spots in regard to greatest 3-game Finals stretch?

How is this even possible and where tf is Jordan on this list? :lol

Where is Bean Bryant? :lol :lol

https://i.postimg.cc/XvgDFFG7/Gm-SC-update-1.png

[Duncan21formvp]

As soon as Lebron got to the Western Conference he misses the playoffs the very next year after had gotten to the finals in the East.

[LostCause]

Lol, I legit was just doing that too, because that shit looked like it was definitely not accurate

Just for reference

2006 Wade Games 4-6: 29

2011 Wade Games 2-4: 28.9

I bet there's like half a dozen others that are missing too

Yeah, crazy how Barkley from 93 is on that list but Jordan, who thoroughly outplayed him, isn't :oldlol:

Also missing Magic in 87, who got a 32.2 GameScore rounded but if we're not rounding, the Top 5 looks like this:

LeBron 2016 (Games 5, 6, 7): 34.93
Jordan 1993 (Games 2, 3, 4): 32.23
LeBron 2018 (Games 1, 2, 3): 32.20
Magic 1987 (Games 1, 2, 3): 32.16
LeBron 2017 (Games 3, 4, 5)*: 32.10

*Graphic lists 2017 LeBron games 1, 2 and 3 which is wrong. It's 3,4,5

LeBron being 3/5 of the Top 5 isn't bad at all, not sure what's wrong with just putting accurate information as opposed to fake info and omitting things. Nothing wrong with that for this weird and random "3-game GameScore stretch" :oldlol:

[TheCorporation]

Yeah, crazy how Barkley from 93 is on that list but Jordan, who thoroughly outplayed him, isn't :oldlol:

Also missing Magic in 87, who got a 32.2 GameScore rounded but if we're not rounding, the Top 5 looks like this:

LeBron 2016 (Games 5, 6, 7): 34.93
Jordan 1993 (Games 2, 3, 4): 32.23
LeBron 2018 (Games 1, 2, 3): 32.20
Magic 1987 (Games 1, 2, 3): 32.16
LeBron 2017 (Games 3, 4, 5)*: 32.10

*Graphic lists 2017 LeBron games 1, 2 and 3 which is wrong. It's 3,4,5

LeBron being 3/5 of the Top 5 isn't bad at all, not sure what's wrong with just putting accurate information as opposed to fake info and omitting things. Nothing wrong with that for this weird and random "3-game GameScore stretch" :oldlol:

It's not "fake info" and thanks for updating me.

https://i.postimg.cc/rwLpwdBw/Gm-SC-update-3.png

And how is that "weird and random"

[LostCause]

It's not "fake info" and thanks for updating me.

https://i.postimg.cc/rwLpwdBw/Gm-SC-update-3.png

And how is that "weird and random"

I figured you were intentionally being dishonest, but if that's not the case then I won't call it fake info :cheers:

That said, it's "weird and random" due to it not being particularly relevant. Why is a 3-game stretch important? Why not just the series, which is what matters most in the Finals, right? Or, if you must go by "stretches", a 4-game would make the most sense seeing as that's whats needed to win. 3 great performances in a row and then a dud doesn't mean much if you lose

Regardless though, if you're going to use GameScore, you may as well use PER as well

[3ball]

MJ was 1-9 because he was facing a Warriors-level team with an 8 seed, yet still doing better than lebron's sweeps and record defeat with 2 seeds in 07/14/17/18 Finals (2-16 record)

And Lebron missed the playoffs with the East all-star center on his team in 05'.. Whereas MJ never missed the playoffs when he had elite athleticism, and only had 1st round exits with 8 seeds, while Lebron's 9 seeds missed the 8 vs 1 matchup in 04 and 05'
.