Kobe/Harden - VERY SIMILAR PLAYERS

[StrongLurk]

Let me clarify, Harden will never surpass Kobe in my eyes. However they are kind of similar offensive players in the regular season production wise.

First 10 years in the league "regular season".

Harden - 24.2/5.2/6.2 (3.6 TOV) on 44/36/86, 34.1mpg, 24.2 PER
- was a bench player for the first couple of years, peaking in 10th year.

Kobe: 23.9/5.1/4.5 (2.9 TOV) on 45/34/83, 35.7mpg, 23.2 PER
- was a bench player for the first couple of years, peaking in 10th year (2006).

Both are crazy shot makers and the best SGs in the league. If Harden wasn't such a flopper and inconsistent in the playoffs then he'd be viewed in a MUCH higher light. Kobe also had some playoffs where his play dropped off from the regular season, but not as often as Harden.

[tpols]

Theyre not similar at all. Kobe lurked in the midrange and played in a heavy ball,movement offenses while harden plays I so dribble spam 3, layup, or FTs.

[LAmbruh]

Harden is far more efficient at scoring and playmaking than Kobe


If starting a franchise right now, most would take Harden first. Less baggage and can do more with less

[Smook A.]

Similar players in terms of numbers, sure. Their play styles are really different, though. Harden's a better playmaker, a better 3 point shooter, and overall more efficient as well (TS%). Kobe had arguably the best mid-range jumpshot ever next to MJ

[3ball]

Not that similar:



Bryantk 2006 - 35.4 and 3.1 turnovers.. league ppg 97
Harden 2019 - 36.6 and 5.1 turnovers.. league ppg 111


So not that similar

And teams score 15 more ppg today than 06', so Kobe would score 5 more today based on his 06' portion (35% of his team's pts)

[tpols]

I didn't realize team ppg were so different... 111 to 97? That's a massive difference. Kobe scored way more proportionally. While his squad sported a top 10 assist rank and hardens is 28th. That's with Chris Paul, Eric Gordon and capela compared to smush, kwame, and odom. That's actually incredible.

[Gus Hemmingway]

Good to see Kobe getting compared to players in his rightful tier (Drextlers, Hardens, West's, etc)

[Smook A.]

Not that similar:



Bryantk 2006 - 35.4 and 3.1 turnovers.. league ppg 97
Harden 2019 - 36.6 and 6.7 turnovers.. league ppg 111


So not that similar

And teams score 15 more ppg today than 06', so Kobe would score 5 more today based on his 06' portion (35% of his team's pts)
5.1 turnovers, not 6.7 :lol Where in the world did you get that number?

[LeCola]

For stats they are similar but;

Kobe was great on defence, Harden is not.

Harden can play PG and controll-direct his teams offence, Kobe could not.

Kobe was Jordan's copy, Harden is unique. At the end, Kobe is better than Harden but Harden is 30 years old and it could change in years.

[Gus Hemmingway]

I didn't realize team ppg were so different... 111 to 97? That's a massive difference. Kobe scored way more proportionally. While his squad sported a top 10 assist rank and hardens is 28th. That's with Chris Paul, Eric Gordon and capela compared to smush, kwame, and odom. That's actually incredible.
And despite the assist rank, Harden has his team in much better playoff contention. Incredible indeed

[3ball]

5.1 turnovers, not 6.7 :lol Where in the world did you get that number?
Whoops, I was looking at per 100 possessions

5.1 is the right number

Harden's high turnovers is why his offensive efficiency and player efficiency rating fall below the goat standard for 35+ scorers (88' MJ), despite nipping MJ in true shooting efficiency (61% to 60)

[StrongLurk]

Again, I said "production-wise".

People kind of overrate younger Kobe a little because they only think of peak Kobe...but Kobe in his first 10 seasons wasn't as crazy as people think.

[And1AllDay]

Harden is far more efficient at scoring and playmaking than Kobe


If starting a franchise right now, most would take Harden first. Less baggage and can do more with less

Imagine Harden with Shaq :eek: Good god all mighty

4 chips straight no doubt

[LoneyROY7]

Harden's career numbers since he came to Houston are reDICKulous.

[And1AllDay]

Bean missed playoffs in prime in 2005
Harden is 10/10 never missed the playoffs in his career

so theres that

[AlternativeAcc.]

Harden > Kobe

Harden >>>>> Curry


Ring count doesn't matter, Harden is objectively better than both


Harden could and probably should have 4 MVP's right now

[Hamtaro CP3KDKG]

I didn't realize team ppg were so different... 111 to 97? That's a massive difference. Kobe scored way more proportionally. While his squad sported a top 10 assist rank and hardens is 28th. That's with Chris Paul, Eric Gordon and capela compared to smush, kwame, and odom. That's actually incredible.

The lowest scoring team this season (Grizzlies) score as much as the 2nd scoring team in 06 (Sonics) at 102.6. only the Suns scored more than the current Grizzlies :lol :lol

[Dray n Klay]

The lowest scoring team this season (Grizzlies) score as much as the 2nd scoring team in 06 (Sonics) at 102.6. only the Suns scored more than the current Grizzlies :lol :lol

Hows college these days?

[LeCola]

Imagine Harden with Shaq :eek: Good god all mighty

4 chips straight no doubt

If I have Shaq and looking for second guy I would prefer too. Harden would both score well and feed Shaq.

But, as franchise player i would choose Kobe. Harden could be slightly better than Kobe on offence however defence is half of the game, important as much as offence and Kobe is much better on that.Therefore Kobe>Harden

[tontoz]

Kobe's highest TS ever was 58%. Harden's career TS is 61%.

Kobe's highest EFG ever was 50.4%. Harden's career EFG is 52.4%.

Kobe is obviously the better defender but Harden is decisively better on offense. Kobe took more bad jumpers than anyone i have ever seen.

As far as team scoring goes the pace is faster now. Last summers change to make the shot clock 14 seconds after an offensive rebound has led to a lot more possessions.

[Bronbron23]

Harden is far more efficient at scoring and playmaking than Kobe


If starting a franchise right now, most would take Harden first. Less baggage and can do more with less
You couldn't be more wrong. There's not a GM in the world that takes harden over kobe

[TheCorporation]

Harden > Kobe

Harden >>>>> Curry


Ring count doesn't matter, Harden is objectively better than both


Harden could and probably should have 4 MVP's right now

I definitely think he should have won in 2017 when Russ won. Harden definitely would have gotten my vote that year. This year though...Giannis is looking thicc

[TheCorporation]

The lowest scoring team this season (Grizzlies) score as much as the 2nd scoring team in 06 (Sonics) at 102.6. only the Suns scored more than the current Grizzlies :lol :lol

Yeah something tells me it has to deal with the NBA utilizing a deeper talent pool (see: International players) and oh yeah, this thing called a 3-point shot.

Welcome to the forums, stick around and learn a few things :cheers:

[Mr.GOAT2408]

If Kobe played in today's environment where 3s are way more utilized and it's easier to drive to the rim then I'm sure his offensive production would be even more insane. He'd still operate from the mid/post but less so. Kobe took 6 3s in 06 which was 3rd in the league but don't think it'd be top 25 today, that needs to be factored in.

Also a better defender, also not a big gap in playmaking considering Kobe was the primary playmaker on several teams that finished in the top 5-10 in apg and generated several hockey assists a la Curry but the spreadsheets don't show any of that. The Rockets are really inconsistent in terms of team assists but outside of 17 they don't particularly rank high in team APG, hell the past two years they've been near the very bottom. Harden is the epitome of getting assists because he handles the ball a ton, he also turns the ball over way too much to be the primary playmaker

[Mr Feeny]

In other words, at their peak: Harden scorers more. On better efficiency. Assists more. Rebounds more. Has a higher PER. Has a higher ws/48. Has a higher RAPM. Has a high BPM.

Hmmm....

[Mr Feeny]

If Kobe played in today's environment where 3s are way more utilized and it's easier to drive to the rim then I'm sure his offensive production would be even more insane. He'd still operate from the mid/post but less so. Kobe took 6 3s in 06 which was 3rd in the league but don't think it'd be top 25 today, that needs to be factored in.

Also a better defender, also not a big gap in playmaking considering Kobe was the primary playmaker on several teams that finished in the top 5-10 in apg and generated several hockey assists a la Curry but the spreadsheets don't show any of that. The Rockets are really inconsistent in terms of team assists but outside of 17 they don't particularly rank high in team APG, hell the past two years they've been near the very bottom. Harden is the epitome of getting assists because he handles the ball a ton, he also turns the ball over way too much to be the primary playmaker

Kobe did play in today's no handchecking 3 ball league. He shot 35%FG for the season and ked his team to 17 wins because he doesn't fit in today's game:lol

[Mr.GOAT2408]

Kobe did play in today's no handchecking 3 ball league. He shot 35%FG for the season and ked his team to 17 wins because he doesn't fit in today's game:lol
He was clearly washed though :facepalm we saw how he looked in his age 34 season despite the 3ball not being where it once was due to injuries to his shooting fingers :lol

And of course his last game where he was 27 again, that would have been prime Kobe in today's game only even more dominant as he wasn't near as athletic, it was just his shots hitting like they used to :lol

[Mr Feeny]

He was clearly washed though :facepalm we saw how he looked in his age 34 season despite the 3ball not being where it once was due to injuries to his shooting fingers :lol

And of course his last game where he was 27 again, that would have been prime Kobe in today's game only even more dominant as he wasn't near as athletic, it was just his shots hitting like they used to :lol

What does that mean, washed?:lol a 40 year old Michael Jorda with one knee and no damaged ligaments in his shooting hand was 10 times a better player.

And here is an uninterested 34 year LeBron James averaging 8apg ad 8 rpg on 51%, all higher than Kobe's career highs.