kobe is the best pound for pound player of all time [Archive] - Message Board Basketball Forum

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kennethgriffen

03-28-2019, 06:40 PM

if you put lebron or jordans brains in kobe bryants frame. they would be worse than kobe

kobe with jordans hands, lebrons shoulders, jordans hangtime, lebrons hgh/roids, both of their speed end to end

you wouldn't blink an eye if he dropped 100 with those advantages

the only guys offensively that you could argue were on a pound for pound level with kobe is durant, bird.... maaaaybe iverson?

but when you factor in how great kobe was defensively. nobody matches him. kobe is the best player of all time on an even playing field... this dude has short arms, small hands, lost his athleticism in 2003 after major knee surgery. he was strong but not muscular aside from one season he lifted weights. he had to work on footwork, jab steps, pump fakes, counters to the defense to make up for his limitations.

i'm not saying kobe wasn't athletic. but he wasn't athletic to the point where it gave him an unfair advantage

forget the fact that kobe won with pau and scrubs or dropped more in 3 quarters or near it routinely than jordan or lebron ever could through a regulation game.

the pound for pound measurement is more accurate when deciding ability/greatness. the same asterisks we give big men should be applied to guards and forwards who took advantage of weaker physical competition

wilt gets shit on for dominating smaller/slower guys all the time.

nuff said

kobe = pound for pound GOAT

https://media.giphy.com/media/poqnyDbavYXgA/giphy.gif
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http://cdn1.sbnation.com/assets/3692787/kobescores_medium.gif

SpaceJam2

03-28-2019, 06:43 PM

https://i.postimg.cc/Qd9LPdgZ/allen-iverson.jpg

kennethgriffen

03-28-2019, 06:44 PM

https://i.postimg.cc/Qd9LPdgZ/allen-iverson.jpg

defense though

Ben Simmons 25

03-28-2019, 06:44 PM

SpaceJam2

03-28-2019, 06:45 PM

kennethgriffen

03-28-2019, 06:51 PM

Kobe Bryant got by defensively on reputation alone from roughly 2003 and onward.

Particularly starting in 2005, when he had to start shouldering the offensive load, his defense fell off a cliff.

Kobe is the most overrated defender that ever played the game. Literally ever.

interesting

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=arLqY4lJ4oc

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NiyODnD0V5k

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QBu28UwDzps

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kk9SRxMQs1k

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2VCVP9L25vk

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-IrdvY2UoYY

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aG7Mj5Mifqs

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fcS25l2jzlk

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MSyN2cmTHaw

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xphjsBLANNU

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3RZ2W7LIgsI

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Tfq3V6C5dA

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=liIYL7YcePI

FKAri

03-28-2019, 06:55 PM

Sad that after his achilles injury he lost his mind and skill :(

https://j.gifs.com/mQzvOA.gif
https://j.gifs.com/32qLQn.gif
https://j.gifs.com/L8p3ZW.gif

Objectivity

03-28-2019, 06:56 PM

How great is our GOD...we are not worthy :bowdown:

Kblaze8855

03-28-2019, 07:00 PM

3ball

03-28-2019, 07:02 PM

.
MJ was better at the same size, even as an old man:

JORDAN 1996-1998 REG SEASON:. 29.6 ppg.. 48.2% fg.. 2 MVP
BRYANT 2008-2010 REG SEASON:. 27.4 ppg.. 46.1% fg.. 1 MVP

JORDAN 1996-1998 PLAYOFFS:. 31.4 ppg.. 45.9% fg
BRYANT 2008-2010 PLAYOFFS:. 29.8 ppg.. 46.4% fg

JORDAN 1996-1998 FINALS:. 31.1 ppg.. 43.4% fg.. 3 championships.. 3 FMVP's
BRYANT 2008-2010 FINALS:. 29.2 ppg.. 41.3% fg.. 2 championships.. 2 FMVP's

Source: basketball-reference.com

Notice that MJ's efficiency was equal or greater, even though Kobe carried a smaller load, ESPECIALLY in the 4th:

............PERCENTAGE OF TEAM POINTS SCORED WHILE PLAYER WAS ON FLOOR

.........................RS.....RS 4th.... PO....PO 4th....Finals.. Finals 4th

JORDAN 1997... 36.0 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/893/usage/?Season=1996-97&SeasonType=Regular%20Season)..... 40.1 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/893/usage/?Season=1996-97&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&Period=4)..... 37.7 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/893/usage/?Season=1996-97&SeasonType=Playoffs)..... 46.3 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/893/usage/?Season=1996-97&SeasonType=Playoffs&Period=4)...... 40.9 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/893/usage/?Season=1996-97&SeasonType=Playoffs&PORound=4)...... 50.4 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/893/usage/?Season=1996-97&SeasonType=Playoffs&Period=4&PORound=4) <--- links to nba.com data
JORDAN 1998... 36.3 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/893/stats/usage/?Season=1997-98&SeasonType=Regular%20Season)..... 42.1 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/893/usage/?Season=1997-98&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&Period=4)..... 39.7 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/893/usage/?Season=1997-98&SeasonType=Playoffs)..... 48.8 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/893/usage/?Season=1997-98&SeasonType=Playoffs&Period=4)...... 43.6 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/893/usage/?Season=1997-98&SeasonType=Playoffs&PORound=4)...... 49.1 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/893/usage/?Season=1997-98&SeasonType=Playoffs&Period=4&PORound=4)

KOBE 2008....... 31.8 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/977/stats/usage/?Season=2007-08&SeasonType=Regular%20Season)..... 36.8 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/977/usage/?Season=2007-08&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&Period=4)..... 33.9 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/977/stats/usage/?Season=2007-08&SeasonType=Playoffs)..... 41.5 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/977/usage/?Season=2007-08&SeasonType=Playoffs&Period=4)...... 30.4 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/977/usage/?Season=2007-08&SeasonType=Playoffs&PORound=4)...... 32.1 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/977/usage/?Season=2007-08&SeasonType=Playoffs&Period=4&PORound=4)
KOBE 2009....... 32.6 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/977/usage/?Season=2008-09&SeasonType=Regular%20Season)..... 40.5 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/977/usage/?Season=2008-09&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&Period=4)..... 34.3 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/977/stats/usage/?Season=2008-09&SeasonType=Playoffs)..... 35.8 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/977/usage/?Season=2008-09&SeasonType=Playoffs&Period=4)...... 36.2 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/977/usage/?Season=2008-09&SeasonType=Playoffs&PORound=4)...... 34.4 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/977/usage/?Season=2008-09&SeasonType=Playoffs&PORound=4&Period=4)
KOBE 2010....... 32.2 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/977/stats/usage/?Season=2009-10&SeasonType=Regular%20Season)..... 37.8 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/977/usage/?Season=2009-10&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&Period=4)..... 33.9 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/977/stats/usage/?Season=2009-10&SeasonType=Playoffs)..... 38.4 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/977/usage/?Season=2009-10&SeasonType=Playoffs&Period=4)...... 36.8 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/977/usage/?Season=2009-10&SeasonType=Playoffs&PORound=4)...... 37.6 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/977/usage/?Season=2009-10&SeasonType=Playoffs&PORound=4&Period=4)

Per 100 Possessions Playoffs

MJ 96-98' (https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/j/jordami01.html#1996-1998-sum:playoffs_per_poss):. 42.5 pts.. 2.5 oreb.. 5.6 dreb.. 5.6 ast.. 3.2 tov.. 118 ortg.. 54.3 ts..
KB 08-10' (https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/b/bryanko01.html#2008-2010-sum:playoffs_per_poss):.l 38.6 pts.. 1.2 oreb.. 6.1 dreb.. 7.1 ast.. 4.0 tov.. 115 ortg.. 54.9 ts..

Advanced Playoffs

MJ 96-98' (https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/j/jordami01.html#1996-1998-sum:playoffs_advanced):. 27.3 PER.. 9.5 ows.. 4.0 dws.. 0 268 ws/48.. 7.3 obpm... 0.3 dbpm.. 7.3 bpm.. 5.9 VORP.. 102 drtg
KB 08-10' (https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/b/bryanko01.html#2008-2010-sum:playoffs_advanced):. 23.8 PER.. 4.7 ows.. 1.1 dws.. 0 158 ws/48.. 4.6 obpm.. -0.2 dbpm.. 4.4 bpm.. 2.8 VORP.. 107 drg

Now consider the scoring burden stats from NBA.com above, where MJ's burden was far greater (50% more in Finals 4th quarters)

Jordan simply had less help offensively, yet his teams had the #6 and 16 all-time offenses (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=452768), versus Kobe's #43 and 49 offenses.. and defensively it's no contest - 08'-10 Kobe wasn't a great defender..

Given this information, there's clearly a tier-like gap between 96-98 MJ and 08-10' Kobe..

Btw, 08-10 wasn't Kobe's prime.... The defensive bpm shows that only 01-03' Kobe approached 97-98' MJ on the defensive end.. (and no version of Kobe could touch 96' MJ defensively, or pre-96).
.

kennethgriffen

03-28-2019, 07:04 PM

Sad that after his achilles injury he lost his mind and skill :(

https://j.gifs.com/mQzvOA.gif
https://j.gifs.com/32qLQn.gif
https://j.gifs.com/L8p3ZW.gif

Kobe ended up needing his athletic ability more than most(myself included) had been assuming. I didnt expect Kobe to be shooting 35% for an entire season because he lost it. I was one of those saying "No way he stays like this...." when he was so bad early in the season but I was wrong.

i never said kobe needed zero athleticism. you at least need 2 legs and nba level quickness/first step to have any kind of chance at being a volume scorer

that or have a very strong base/lower body and be able to muscle your way around

kobe had neither after the surgery. plus he was already probably on his way out just from age/mileage

it was year 18 for god sakes.

Vino24

03-28-2019, 07:07 PM

Kobe is a better overall defender and 3 point shooter than MJ

kennethgriffen

03-28-2019, 07:10 PM

.
MJ was better at the same size, even as an old man:

JORDAN 1996-1998 REG SEASON:. 29.6 ppg.. 48.2% fg.. 2 MVP
BRYANT 2008-2010 REG SEASON:. 27.4 ppg.. 46.1% fg.. 1 MVP

JORDAN 1996-1998 PLAYOFFS:. 31.4 ppg.. 45.9% fg
BRYANT 2008-2010 PLAYOFFS:. 29.8 ppg.. 46.4% fg

JORDAN 1996-1998 FINALS:. 31.1 ppg.. 43.4% fg.. 3 championships.. 3 FMVP's
BRYANT 2008-2010 FINALS:. 29.2 ppg.. 41.3% fg.. 2 championships.. 2 FMVP's

Source: basketball-reference.com

Notice that MJ's efficiency was equal or greater, even though Kobe carried a smaller load, ESPECIALLY in the 4th:

............PERCENTAGE OF TEAM POINTS SCORED WHILE PLAYER WAS ON FLOOR

.........................RS.....RS 4th.... PO....PO 4th....Finals.. Finals 4th

JORDAN 1997... 36.0 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/893/usage/?Season=1996-97&SeasonType=Regular%20Season)..... 40.1 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/893/usage/?Season=1996-97&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&Period=4)..... 37.7 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/893/usage/?Season=1996-97&SeasonType=Playoffs)..... 46.3 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/893/usage/?Season=1996-97&SeasonType=Playoffs&Period=4)...... 40.9 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/893/usage/?Season=1996-97&SeasonType=Playoffs&PORound=4)...... 50.4 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/893/usage/?Season=1996-97&SeasonType=Playoffs&Period=4&PORound=4) <--- links to nba.com data
JORDAN 1998... 36.3 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/893/stats/usage/?Season=1997-98&SeasonType=Regular%20Season)..... 42.1 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/893/usage/?Season=1997-98&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&Period=4)..... 39.7 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/893/usage/?Season=1997-98&SeasonType=Playoffs)..... 48.8 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/893/usage/?Season=1997-98&SeasonType=Playoffs&Period=4)...... 43.6 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/893/usage/?Season=1997-98&SeasonType=Playoffs&PORound=4)...... 49.1 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/893/usage/?Season=1997-98&SeasonType=Playoffs&Period=4&PORound=4)

KOBE 2008....... 31.8 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/977/stats/usage/?Season=2007-08&SeasonType=Regular%20Season)..... 36.8 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/977/usage/?Season=2007-08&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&Period=4)..... 33.9 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/977/stats/usage/?Season=2007-08&SeasonType=Playoffs)..... 41.5 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/977/usage/?Season=2007-08&SeasonType=Playoffs&Period=4)...... 30.4 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/977/usage/?Season=2007-08&SeasonType=Playoffs&PORound=4)...... 32.1 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/977/usage/?Season=2007-08&SeasonType=Playoffs&Period=4&PORound=4)
KOBE 2009....... 32.6 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/977/usage/?Season=2008-09&SeasonType=Regular%20Season)..... 40.5 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/977/usage/?Season=2008-09&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&Period=4)..... 34.3 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/977/stats/usage/?Season=2008-09&SeasonType=Playoffs)..... 35.8 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/977/usage/?Season=2008-09&SeasonType=Playoffs&Period=4)...... 36.2 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/977/usage/?Season=2008-09&SeasonType=Playoffs&PORound=4)...... 34.4 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/977/usage/?Season=2008-09&SeasonType=Playoffs&PORound=4&Period=4)
KOBE 2010....... 32.2 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/977/stats/usage/?Season=2009-10&SeasonType=Regular%20Season)..... 37.8 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/977/usage/?Season=2009-10&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&Period=4)..... 33.9 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/977/stats/usage/?Season=2009-10&SeasonType=Playoffs)..... 38.4 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/977/usage/?Season=2009-10&SeasonType=Playoffs&Period=4)...... 36.8 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/977/usage/?Season=2009-10&SeasonType=Playoffs&PORound=4)...... 37.6 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/977/usage/?Season=2009-10&SeasonType=Playoffs&PORound=4&Period=4)

Per 100 Possessions Playoffs

MJ 96-98' (https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/j/jordami01.html#1996-1998-sum:playoffs_per_poss):. 42.5 pts.. 2.5 oreb.. 5.6 dreb.. 5.6 ast.. 3.2 tov.. 118 ortg.. 54.3 ts..
KB 08-10' (https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/b/bryanko01.html#2008-2010-sum:playoffs_per_poss):.l 38.6 pts.. 1.2 oreb.. 6.1 dreb.. 7.1 ast.. 4.0 tov.. 115 ortg.. 54.9 ts..

Advanced Playoffs

MJ 96-98' (https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/j/jordami01.html#1996-1998-sum:playoffs_advanced):. 27.3 PER.. 9.5 ows.. 4.0 dws.. 0 268 ws/48.. 7.3 obpm... 0.3 dbpm.. 7.3 bpm.. 5.9 VORP.. 102 drtg
KB 08-10' (https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/b/bryanko01.html#2008-2010-sum:playoffs_advanced):. 23.8 PER.. 4.7 ows.. 1.1 dws.. 0 158 ws/48.. 4.6 obpm.. -0.2 dbpm.. 4.4 bpm.. 2.8 VORP.. 107 drg

Now consider the scoring burden stats from NBA.com in the previous post above, where MJ's burden was far greater (50% more in Finals 4th quarters)

Jordan simply had less help offensively, yet his teams had the #6 and 16 all-time offenses (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=452768), versus Kobe's #43 and 49 offenses.. and defensively it's no contest - 08'-10 Kobe wasn't a great defender..

Given this information, there's clearly a tier-like gap between 96-98 MJ and 08-10' Kobe..

Btw, 08-10 wasn't Kobe's prime.... The defensive bpm shows that only 01-03' Kobe approached 97-98' MJ on the defensive end.. (and no version of Kobe could touch 96' MJ defensively, or pre-96).

i dunno why you always get so triggered... ok you win. kobe had alien hands and could fly from the free throw line, quadruple pump fake, blow by people without even a jab step to get them off balance and could rise up without a dribble for a 1 handed throw down over centers while standing still under the basket

yes kobe was the 2nd coming of air jordan. flight kobe taking off... get ready... his high score of 49 in the dunk contest is still a story being told among historians ... it was so memorable the nba said they didn't need a follow up context the very next year. kobe was back to back dunk champ by default.

:bowdown:

Kblaze8855

03-28-2019, 07:11 PM

Ben Simmons 25

03-28-2019, 07:11 PM

Kobe ended up needing his athletic ability more than most(myself included) had been assuming. I didnt expect Kobe to be shooting 35% for an entire season because he lost it. I was one of those saying "No way he stays like this...." when he was so bad early in the season but I was wrong.

HOLY ****ING SHIT STOP THE PRESSES.

This thread marks a monumental day in ISH history.

Kblaze admitting to being wrong at something.

****. ISH is now over.

Ben Simmons 25

03-28-2019, 07:13 PM

SouBeachTalents

03-28-2019, 07:13 PM

https://i.makeagif.com/media/3-28-2019/NRANJL.gif (/gif/2010-nba-finals-game-7-kobe-bryant-23pts-6-24-pau-gasol-19pts-18reb-2blk-vs-paul-pierce-18pts-NRANJL)

Vino24

03-28-2019, 07:14 PM

https://i.makeagif.com/media/3-28-2019/NRANJL.gif (/gif/2010-nba-finals-game-7-kobe-bryant-23pts-6-24-pau-gasol-19pts-18reb-2blk-vs-paul-pierce-18pts-NRANJL)
Never seen a shot he didn

kennethgriffen

03-28-2019, 07:16 PM

I wish he played that season picking his spots and saving his energy to play well in short bursts. I think he wanted to be the old Kobe and just didnt have it. Some players accept they cant do it like they used to and change. Kobe seemed like he wanted to be the real Kobe and it just made him look bad.

he should have been playing 22 minutes mostly posting and being a playmaker. He was taking 7 threes a game shooting 28%. Just a bad look. He was smart enough to know that wasnt effective...

I guess he wanted to get his shots and it was less taxing to get them that way....but id like to see him do that season over content to take 10-12 shots mostly in the post and not press the issue so much.

like i said. you need a basic level of athleticism to be in the nba to begin with ( unless you're a pass first PG that rarely shoots ). kobe was basically a 1 legged man in an 18th season with a shit ton of playoff mileage

people are making excuses for lebron in year 16 and he never had a multitude of surgeries like kobe did throughout his career

i think by 2010 kobes body was already shot. the fact that he had 1st team all nba seasons for 3 more years says a lot

by 2003 he lost his supreme athleticism and coasted on a regular body from 2004-2009 ( while having his best seasons )

Kblaze8855

03-28-2019, 07:16 PM

HOLY ****ING SHIT STOP THE PRESSES.

This thread marks a monumental day in ISH history.

Kblaze admitting to being wrong at something.

****. ISH is now over.

Aside from some pre draft evaluation like we all get wrong?

I think my "No way Kobe keeps playing like this" stance from early 2016 is the wrongest ive ever been on ISH. No way for it to be taken any other way. It wasnt someone misunderstanding what I said. I said it...and I meant it just the way it came out.

I was SURE Kobe couldnt be as bad as he appeared to start that season.

Oh well.

FKAri

03-28-2019, 07:17 PM

I wish he played that season picking his spots and saving his energy to play well in short bursts. I think he wanted to be the old Kobe and just didnt have it. Some players accept they cant do it like they used to and change. Kobe seemed like he wanted to be the real Kobe and it just made him look bad.

he should have been playing 22 minutes mostly posting and being a playmaker. He was taking 7 threes a game shooting 28%. Just a bad look. He was smart enough to know that wasnt effective...

I guess he wanted to get his shots and it was less taxing to get them that way....but id like to see him do that season over content to take 10-12 shots mostly in the post and not press the issue so much.

That kind of determination is a big part of what made him great before he had those limitations. It's rare to be able to have that as well as the awareness of seeing yourself as part of a greater whole. Though I'm not sure if Kobe was lacking that. I just think he refused to accept his physical limitations. He felt he could will himself to get back on that level.

It's like the shooter's catch-22: If I keep shooting and missing at what point should I stop? You need to keep shooting but you also need to not shoot your team out of the game. We know what choice Kobe would make even if he chopped off his shooting hand.

kennethgriffen

03-28-2019, 07:19 PM

https://i.makeagif.com/media/3-28-2019/NRANJL.gif (/gif/2010-nba-finals-game-7-kobe-bryant-23pts-6-24-pau-gasol-19pts-18reb-2blk-vs-paul-pierce-18pts-NRANJL)

and he dominated the last 15 minutes of that game while taking home his 5th ring and finals mvp

he was suffering through knee issues and a broken index finger on his shooting hand. this is why kobe said "you gotta figure it out" when referring to lebrons struggles. you get old and gotta find different areas you can be effective when your shot isn't falling

like play defense, attack the rim, hit free throws, grab rebounds without cherry picking, set up others in a real offensive system etc...

Ben Simmons 25

03-28-2019, 07:24 PM

Aside from some pre draft evaluation like we all get wrong?

I think my "No way Kobe keeps playing like this" stance from early 2016 is the wrongest ive ever been on ISH. No way for it to be taken any other way. It wasnt someone misunderstanding what I said. I said it...and I meant it just the way it came out.

I was SURE Kobe couldnt be as bad as he appeared to start that season.

Oh well.

:roll: :roll:

:cheers: :cheers: :cheers:

Objectivity

03-28-2019, 07:25 PM

https://i.makeagif.com/media/3-28-2019/NRANJL.gif (/gif/2010-nba-finals-game-7-kobe-bryant-23pts-6-24-pau-gasol-19pts-18reb-2blk-vs-paul-pierce-18pts-NRANJL)

Double teamed with an expiring shotclock.
His only option was to shoot and hope for the best, ofc lebronze would have tried to pass to protect his fg% :roll:

3ball

03-28-2019, 07:36 PM

And 3ball, you can stfu, you slipped up brother... I remember clear as crystal you saying, ON THAT ACCOUNT, that Kobe would absolutely destroy MJ 1 on 1 because Kobe was a better player.

You are an exposed alt. You don't believe the shit you type.

I mean, it's impressive that you've got people believing after all these years. I suspect I know who you are, but it would just be a guess.

Hopefully one day we know for sure... but what is sure, is that your 3ball persona is complete bullshit and not an actual representation of your actual thoughts.
I never said Kobe was better dude, ur lying.. i'd never say that because it's ridiculous

Not as ridiculous as claiming 0*/9 lebron is better, but ridiculous nonetheless

What I did say is that Kobe could beat MJ 1-on-1 sometimes; a small amount of the time

And btw, how could I not believe what I type - it's all stats!!... :yaohappy:

kennethgriffen

03-28-2019, 07:37 PM

Double teamed with an expiring shotclock.
His only option was to shoot and hope for the best, ofc lebronze would have tried to pass to protect his fg% :roll:

kobes made over a thousand shots like that... he made a career off of playing that way. succeeded and became a top 5 player ever to most people

so why hate on the guy for missing one of them. they didn't even lose that game. he dominated the end and snatched that title when neither team seemed to be able to do anything most of the game. it was one of the toughest grind it out defensive games in history. kobe just wanted it more and it showed with his 15 rebounds. would be like shaq grabbing 30 rebounds in a game 7. nobody gives kobe the credit he deserves

kennethgriffen

03-28-2019, 07:37 PM

I never said Kobe was better dude, ur lying.. i'd never say that because it's ridiculous

Not as ridiculous as claiming 0*/9 lebron is better, but ridiculous nonetheless

What I did say is that Kobe could beat MJ 1-on-1 sometimes; a small amount of the time

And btw, how could I not believe what I type - it's all stats!!... :yaohappy:

you did admit kobe was more skilled though

hiphopanonymous

03-28-2019, 07:40 PM

One minor correction Kenneth - you asserted Kobe had short arms. Not true, his arms pan was 6-11. Only 1/4 inch less than Michael Jordan

kennethgriffen

03-28-2019, 07:44 PM

[QUOTE=hiphopanonymous]One minor correction Kenneth - you asserted Kobe had short arms. Not true, his arms pan was 6-11. Only 1/4 inch less than Michael Jordan

Celtics 1825

03-28-2019, 07:49 PM

https://i.makeagif.com/media/3-28-2019/NRANJL.gif (/gif/2010-nba-finals-game-7-kobe-bryant-23pts-6-24-pau-gasol-19pts-18reb-2blk-vs-paul-pierce-18pts-NRANJL)
:roll: :roll:

Vino24

03-28-2019, 08:18 PM

kobe has broad shoulders. that helps his wingspan. but it doesn't help his standing still dunk ability. the small hands also keeps him from palming the ball. so he could rarely ever do put back dunks or hop step dunks like mj. it was a big inhibitor
This is true. Kobe had no physical gifts compared to your average man. Kobe made the best out of what he had and excelled far beyond his physical limitations. Hence why his body broke down at a younger age.

FireDavidKahn

03-28-2019, 08:38 PM

Jordan weighed less and is the better player.

Jordan is better pound for pound.

TheCorporation

03-28-2019, 09:15 PM

HOLY ****ING SHIT STOP THE PRESSES.

This thread marks a monumental day in ISH history.

Kblaze admitting to being wrong at something.

****. ISH is now over.

Wait, does this mean Jeff is closing the site now :(

TheCorporation

03-28-2019, 09:16 PM

This is true. Kobe had no physical gifts compared to your average man. Kobe made the best out of what he had and excelled far beyond his physical limitations. Hence why his body broke down at a younger age.

Ahh but you are forget one non-physical gift Kobe had over the others:

https://www.lataco.com/wp-content/uploads/vino_kobe_wine-759x500.jpg

kuniva_dAMiGhTy

03-28-2019, 09:30 PM

He came close or at least close to second 3-peat MJ.

Peak for peak, Kobe wasn't on Jordan's level though :confusedshrug:

egokiller

03-28-2019, 09:45 PM

SpaceJam2

03-28-2019, 09:45 PM

kennethgriffen

03-28-2019, 10:09 PM

AI is the best lb for lb player of all time and it's not even close. When you win an MVP in a league that has prime Shaq and actually take a game away from him in the finals, the conversation is over.

AI didn't need to defend you, he already stole the ball and was on offense before you knew wtf happened.

iverson mainly utilized his speed to dominate and didnt have the footwork to play great on ball defense even with all the lateral quickness in the world

i doubt if they switched bodies iverson would be better. he wouldnt have had all of kobes counters. however kobe would have had twice the speed and still had the same shot selection

red1

03-28-2019, 10:14 PM

SpaceJam2

03-28-2019, 10:22 PM

hold this L

03-28-2019, 11:13 PM

Kobe is at best a top 10 player. Absolutely no case for GOAT or even in the conversation.

Smoke117

03-28-2019, 11:16 PM

Kobe is at best a top 10 player. Absolutely no case for GOAT or even in the conversation.

Pretty much. Once you try and say Kobe is legitimately the GOAT you basically lose all credibility. (not that Kenny has had any in about 10 years anyway, but still)

kennethgriffen

03-28-2019, 11:44 PM

nah OP pound for pound it's easily one of the all-time midgets of the league spud webb muggsy bogues etc.

I'm offended that you would make this thread. very disrespectful thread just to prop up a somewhat-deservedly glorified chucking snitch-rapist.

webb had insane athleticism

bogues was insanely quick

as was iverson. these are physical advantages over the defense that Kobe didnt have

kennethgriffen

03-28-2019, 11:45 PM

Kobe is at best a top 10 player. Absolutely no case for GOAT or even in the conversation.

how is this a goat debate

Dray n Klay

03-28-2019, 11:51 PM

how is this a goat debate

LeBron is two inches taller but averages double the rebounds Kobe did in the playoffs and Finals

Pound for pound lebron is better

Vino24

03-28-2019, 11:52 PM

Ahh but you are forget one non-physical gift Kobe had over the others:

https://www.lataco.com/wp-content/uploads/vino_kobe_wine-759x500.jpg
That is what I

SpaceJam2

03-28-2019, 11:56 PM

[QUOTE=Vino24]That is what I

Mr Feeny

03-29-2019, 12:35 AM

Kobe ended up needing his athletic ability more than most(myself included) had been assuming. I didnt expect Kobe to be shooting 35% for an entire season because he lost it. I was one of those saying "No way he stays like this...." when he was so bad early in the season but I was wrong.

It was almost unfathomably bad. I'd never thought I'd see a professional basketball player shoot 35% for the season with no handchecking. It's almost as if it was sabotage. Because I still can't wrap my head around someone shooting that badly.

kennethgriffen

03-29-2019, 01:54 AM

It was almost unfathomably bad. I'd never thought I'd see a professional basketball player shoot 35% for the season with no handchecking. It's almost as if it was sabotage. Because I still can't wrap my head around someone shooting that badly.

well he was still taking the same type of crazy shots but on one leg in his 18th,19th,20th seasons

i think if he transitioned to a playmaker like he did for a month in 2013 he could have played till he was 40

And1AllDay

03-29-2019, 01:57 AM

well he was still taking the same type of crazy shots but on one leg in his 18th,19th,20th seasons

i think if he transitioned to a playmaker like he did for a month in 2013 he could have played till he was 40

No doubt Kobe could always shoot and his footwork was there he just needed to be less stubborn going for a scoring title and focus on solid 20 ppg instead of 28 ppg he could still be in the league now as a 6th man like Carter but better obviously

kennethgriffen

03-29-2019, 02:01 AM

No doubt Kobe could always shoot and his footwork was there he just needed to be less stubborn going for a scoring title and focus on solid 20 ppg instead of 28 ppg he could still be in the league now as a 6th man like Carter but better obviously

mamba mentality is a good thing during your prime and a bad thing at the end. i have no doubt lebron will stick around as a 3rd option to catch kareem. hes beta like that

Dray n Klay

03-29-2019, 02:04 AM

mamba mentality is a good thing during your prime and a bad thing at the end. i have no doubt lebron will stick around as a 3rd option to catch kareem. hes beta like that

How much heavier does LeBron look in this pic

https://a3.espncdn.com/combiner/i?img=%2Fphoto%2F2016%2F0210%2Fr53180_1296x729_16% 2D9.jpg

And1AllDay

03-29-2019, 02:05 AM

mamba mentality is a good thing during your prime and a bad thing at the end. i have no doubt lebron will stick around as a 3rd option to catch kareem. hes beta like that

Very true good for prime and bad at the end if he just slowed down a little bit hed still be in the league dropping 20 on everyones head and prob spacing the floor with his 3 ball shooting Id like to see it.

Mr Feeny

03-29-2019, 02:17 AM

well he was still taking the same type of crazy shots but on one leg in his 18th,19th,20th seasons

i think if he transitioned to a playmaker like he did for a month in 2013 he could have played till he was 40

If he was playing, then he was healthy. There's no a reason a professional basketball player should be shooting 35% from the field for a season. That is so bad:oldlol:

And1AllDay

03-29-2019, 02:24 AM

How much heavier does LeBron look in this pic

https://a3.espncdn.com/combiner/i?img=%2Fphoto%2F2016%2F0210%2Fr53180_1296x729_16% 2D9.jpg

Same weight 240 vs 245 lebron just has a 5 pound headband to keep his dunks strong

kennethgriffen

03-29-2019, 03:03 AM

If he was playing, then he was healthy. There's no a reason a professional basketball player should be shooting 35% from the field for a season. That is so bad:oldlol:

like i said. everyone needs a basic level of athleticism to play in the nba. then theres a minimum level needed to be a high volume scorer. like i said in the OP.. i never said kobe didnt have athletic ability. i said he didnt have an advantage over everyone else in the league like mj and bron did

ofcourse kobe was physically able to run and jump. but he had the athleticism of your average ymca baller. and all the skills in the world cant make a one legged geezer excel in the highest league in the world. especially when youre already on your way out due to mileage

Dray n Klay

03-29-2019, 03:05 AM

like i said. everyone needs a basic level of athleticism to play in the nba. then theres a minimum level needed to be a high volume scorer. like i said in the OP.. i never said kobe didnt have athletic ability. i said he didnt have an advantage over everyone else in the league like mj and bron did

ofcourse kobe was physically able to run and jump. but he had the athleticism of your average ymca baller. and all the skills in the world cant make a one legged geezer excel in the highest league in the world. especially when youre already on your way out due to mileage

LeBron currently has less athleticism than Kobe ever did and is averaging a 30 point triple double on 51% since all star break

kennethgriffen

03-29-2019, 03:22 AM

LeBron currently has less athleticism than Kobe ever did and is averaging a 30 point triple double on 51% since all star break

lebron still throws down dunks ive never seen kobe do even in 2003.. lol shut up

lebrons problem is he gets tired easly from carrying around 270 pounds at age 34. hes still a roided up beast though

Dray n Klay

03-29-2019, 03:23 AM

lebron still throws down dunks ive never seen kobe do even in 2003.. lol shut up

lebrons problem is he gets tired easly from carrying around 270 pounds at age 34. hes still a roided up beast though

Whats the weight difference in this pic

https://a3.espncdn.com/combiner/i?img=%2Fphoto%2F2016%2F0210%2Fr53180_1296x729_16% 2D9.jpg

kennethgriffen

03-29-2019, 03:48 AM

Whats the weight difference in this pic

https://a3.espncdn.com/combiner/i?img=%2Fphoto%2F2016%2F0210%2Fr53180_1296x729_16% 2D9.jpg

i think at that time kobe was 210-215 and lebron was 240-245

looks like 2007