What is Trae Young's ceiling?

[Real14]

How far will he go in his career? The next Steph Curry in my opinion will be a multi all star and make playoffs in his 4th, 5th year. He will also be top 5 in scoring 5 years from now Too but will be a 2nd round exit guy. What u think ISH?

[Sportal]

If he stays at ATL I could potentially see him as first round fodder for years to come.

[MrFonzworth]

Best player on a treadmill team.

[BigKAT]

Damian Lillard.

A flawed offensive superstar who gets to the playoffs and once in a while everyone shout 'blow it up' because he keeps losing in the first or 2nd round.

Can he headline a championship team?
Maybe.

How?
A generational defensive anchor + an elite wing defender on his team. (See Klay&Dray)

[bobopenguin]

their situation would probably end up like:
Doncic -> AD, Trae -> Dame.
Trae will become a very very good star player that no one complains about, but doncic will always outshine hime.

[Mr.GOAT2408]

Good enough to carry an offense far but an absolute liability on defense, you'll need a very well built team like the ones Curry and Nash have played on to compensate. That's his ceiling

He's got some Curry (range) and Nash (playmaking) with size pretty comparable to AI but bigger

I'm expecting a 30/10 season or 2 from him at some point in his career

[Hotlantadude81]

their situation would probably end up like:
Doncic -> AD, Trae -> Dame.
Trae will become a very very good star player that no one complains about, but doncic will always outshine hime.
Only he hasn't been outshining him since the second half of the season started.

[bobopenguin]

Only he hasn't been outshining him since the second half of the season started.

anthony davis wasnt really outshining dame at rookie year either.

i say this again, there's no GM will pick trae before doncic in the draft if they can redo, that's even they see what trae can do up to today.

[atljonesbro]

The best offensive player in the league. He'll be an MVP candidate every year in his prime.

[Hotlantadude81]

anthony davis wasnt really outshining dame at rookie year either.

i say this again, there's no GM will pick trae before doncic in the draft if they can redo, that's even they see what trae can do up to today.

Well, Davis hasn't won anything.

Anyway, you said that Luka would always outshine Trae, but my point was that it hasn't happened so far. Yes, Luka has got some triple doubles, but his shooting is dropping off big time.

[MrFonzworth]

Only he hasn't been outshining him since the second half of the season started.
Because Dallas gutted their team to give Doncic a Robin for next season.

[bobopenguin]

Well, Davis hasn't won anything.

Anyway, you said that Luka would always outshine Trae, but my point was that it hasn't happened so far. Yes, Luka has got some triple doubles, but his shooting is dropping off big time.

even without winning anything, Davis is still considered top 5 in the league.

what do u mean it hasnt happened so far? doncic outshined trae from the beginning of the season only until recent explosive performance run from trae, and maybe u know that mavs sent all 4 stars away during the season, doncic basically played with 2 different teams.

[SpaceJam2]

even without winning anything, Davis is still considered top 5 in the league.

what do u mean it hasnt happened so far? doncic outshined trae from the beginning of the season only until recent explosive performance run from trae, and maybe u know that mavs sent all 4 stars away during the season, doncic basically played with 2 different teams.

Anthony Davis is top 5 in the league? Interesting take...

[bobopenguin]

Anthony Davis is top 5 in the league? Interesting take...

KD/Harden/Giannis/ #4 &5

i am sorry ur daddy lebron isnt in top 5.

[brooks_thompson]

Please for God's sakes, if Memphis doesn't luck into the #1, give Zion to Trae Young's team. I feel like that match could be incredible and allow both (and Collins too) to shine

[Hotlantadude81]

even without winning anything, Davis is still considered top 5 in the league.

what do u mean it hasnt happened so far? doncic outshined trae from the beginning of the season only until recent explosive performance run from trae, and maybe u know that mavs sent all 4 stars away during the season, doncic basically played with 2 different teams.

Trae is playing better now than Luka did the first half of the season.

Trae post allstar break:

25.8 PPG
9 APG
4.5 RPG
45.5 % FG
40.4% 3pt
86% FT

Keep in mind that Collins missed because the first month of the season. Trae has had aniffy team for most of the year.

[atljonesbro]

even without winning anything, Davis is still considered top 5 in the league.

what do u mean it hasnt happened so far? doncic outshined trae from the beginning of the season only until recent explosive performance run from trae, and maybe u know that mavs sent all 4 stars away during the season, doncic basically played with 2 different teams.
Trae has been better at least half the season. He's been a MUCH more efficient scorer.

[Hotlantadude81]

I understand that Luka is a more verstile player, but Trae right now is the better of the two.

[SpaceJam2]

Can Trae steal the ROY from Luka?

[SpaceJam2]

KD/Harden/Giannis/ #4 &5

i am sorry ur daddy lebron isnt in top 5.

Paul George, Steph Curry, Lebron, etc...?

[bobopenguin]

Paul George, Steph Curry, Lebron, etc...?

get off his nuts.

and yes, PG is phenomenal this year, maybe even no.3.

[hold this L]

get off his nuts.

and yes, PG is phenomenal this year, maybe even no.3.
PG has fallen off a cliff post ASB

[SpaceJam2]

PG has fallen off a cliff post ASB

Yup, I was disappointed because he had a real case for MVP until his post ASB woes hit him so harshly.

[AlternativeAcc.]

Yup, I was disappointed because he had a real case for MVP until his post ASB woes hit him so harshly.
He's been dealing with injuries to both of his shoulders (legit injuries unlike Curry's fake knee sprain in 2016)

[Grey Dawn]

Devin Booker.

[BarberSchool]

Trae's ceiling:

This season
+3% 3FG
+2.8PPG
+1.1APG
+0.3SPG
+Better pick and roll efficiency
+8lbs of muscle
+Jerryd bayless hairline

[falconfan13]

Trae's ceiling:

This season
+3% 3FG
+2.8PPG
+1.1APG
+0.3SPG
+Better pick and roll efficiency
+8lbs of muscle
+Jerryd bayless hairline

If these numbers are based on his last 1/3 of the season or so and adding those to it you get something like.

.418% 3 point FG
28.6 PPG
10 APG
6 RPG
1 SPG
6'2
185 pound
Bald Bayless?

[SpaceJam2]

Devin Booker.

Seriously???

[beastee]

The best offensive player in the league. He'll be an MVP candidate every year in his prime.
Come on now. You don't really think this do you?
:facepalm

[atljonesbro]

Come on now. You don't really think this do you?
:facepalm
Well he's already putting up historic numbers as a rookie and is literally averaging 26/9 since the allstar break. I get your gimmick is to only ever post to hate on Atlanta sports and pretend like you have some sort of credibility purely because you live in Atlanta but simply living in the city doesn;t make your opinion more correct.

[Real14]

Devin Booker.
There's a possibility but dont sleep on my boy D book tho.

[fsvr54]

Best player in the world.

[90sgoat]

Anywhere between Kemba Walker and Dame Lillard.

[Real14]

Anywhere between Kemba Walker and Dame Lillard.
I can see Dame in him a lil.

[Real14]

Best player in the world.
Idk man:lol

[Real14]

I understand that Luka is a more verstile player, but Trae right now is the better of the two.
I think Trae is gonna be better too. Luka would have to share the spotlight with bitch ass Zingis.

[Lebron23]

If Curry and Nash have a fusion it would be Trae Young. He really mastered those long distance 3 pointers, and also one of the best passers in the NBA. He just needs to improve his defense.

[Lebron23]

Pretty good handles for a point guard. He can also attack the rims with his tear drop shot. Very hard to defend because he made several 3 pointers near the center of the court. Beside Harden i think he's the leader in 4 points plays. (And1 plays from beyond the arc). I think he can average over 35 ppg at his peak.

[ralph_i_el]

Trae doesn't play like Curry now. Curry has a great off-ball game. Trae's ceiling is Steve Nash with a license to chuck, and even worse defense.

lol at Trae being better than Luka. Luka just orchestrated the most efficient offense in history, with no other all-stars on his team. His Mavs just had a higher points-per-possession than literally any team in history. I know in the current era offenses are generally more efficient, but it's still extremely impressive.

Meanwhile the Hawks are one of the worst teams in the league.

Also, Luka can actually defend someone. Trae can't really match up with anyone.

[CTbasketball92]

Trae Young can be an MVP candidate if hes on a defense-heavy team.

He's not even close to being as good a shooter as Curry, but he's way quicker off the dribble and can get to the line more and he's a better passer.

[Bronbron23]

How far will he go in his career? The next Steph Curry in my opinion will be a multi all star and make playoffs in his 4th, 5th year. He will also be top 5 in scoring 5 years from now Too but will be a 2nd round exit guy. What u think ISH?

Top 5 scorer and passer but a poor defender. Multiple all star and maybe a scoring title or 2 but thats a big maybe. I dont see him winning any MVP's or titles.

[light]

How far will he go in his career? The next Steph Curry in my opinion will be a multi all star and make playoffs in his 4th, 5th year. He will also be top 5 in scoring 5 years from now Too but will be a 2nd round exit guy. What u think ISH?

He's on pace to be better than Steph Curry. That's his ceiling.

What he's done in his 2nd season is unbelievable.

[Clippersfan86]

Trae has somehow become the most underrated player I've ever seen. Despite it being perfectly normal that impact metrics don't show up for small guards usually the first couple years, especially ones bad on D, people love to downplay. What he's doing in year 2 has never been done really. 30/9/4 basically... as a weak, undersized guard. I don't care how bad his D is so far, he's INSANE. Most of his efficiency metrics have gone WAY up despite even more shots and usage. He has taken his TS% for example, from 54 to 59+ despite the increased shot volume.

[Clippersfan86]

He's on pace to be better than Steph Curry. That's his ceiling.

What he's done in his 2nd season is unbelievable.

This is the correct answer. Curry wasn't this good until year 4 or 5 and he was bigger, stronger and a year older.

[Bronbron23]

This is the correct answer. Curry wasn't this good until year 4 or 5 and he was bigger, stronger and a year older.

He also wasnt in a ball dominant system though and just shot less shots. Steph was more efficient at that age and has always been a much better shooter. Trae is a better passer though. With his passing he could maybe be better than steph one day but he needs the ball in his hands alot which isnt ideal for winning so i dont see him being as good of a winner as steph.

Steph can put up similar numbers without monopolizing the ball which is more ideal for winning

[BigShotBob]

Very low. Literally nothing is impressive about him to me besides his three point shot.

[Clippersfan86]

He also wasnt in a ball dominant system though and just shot less shots. Steph was more efficient at that age and has always been a much better shooter. Trae is a better passer though. With his passing he could maybe be better than steph one day but he needs the ball in his hands alot which isnt ideal for winning so i dont see him being as good of a winner as steph.

Steph can put up similar numbers without monopolizing the ball which is more ideal for winning

That's a bit of revisionist history. Young Steph wasn't given the reigns as much because the team was still prioritizing Monta Ellis over him, and he was nowhere near the ballhandler/playmaker as Trae is. Yes, younger Curry was better off the ball, but I wouldn't say Trae's style isn't conducive to winning. We won't know for a while.

[Clippersfan86]

Very low. Literally nothing is impressive about him to me besides his three point shot.

He's the best playmaker in the NBA outside of Lebron. His handles are almost Kyrie level... I think you need to watch more film. I can't wait to see him with a healthy Capela. He's never had a rim protector and constant lob threat (John Collins is a lob threat, but not Capela level) to run PNR with and cover his ass for all the blown coverage on the perimeter. Hawks are going to be the next Bucks type team where they have a couple years of middling, then one year everything gets put together randomly and they win 60+.

Young
Huerter
Hunter
Collins
Capela

nobody older than Capela (26). Cam Reddish also showed big upside lately to potentially be the future SG. Watch out for the Hawks in the next couple years.

[BigShotBob]

He's the best playmaker in the NBA outside of Lebron. His handles are almost Kyrie level... I think you need to watch more film. I can't wait to see him with a healthy Capela. He's never had a rim protector and constant lob threat (John Collins is a lob threat, but not Capela level) to run PNR with and cover his ass for all the blown coverage on the perimeter. Hawks are going to be the next Bucks type team where they have a couple years of middling, then one year everything gets put together randomly and they win 60+.

Young
Huerter
Hunter
Collins
Capela

nobody older than Capela (26). Cam Reddish also showed big upside lately to potentially be the future SG. Watch out for the Hawks in the next couple years.

Any serviceable player, let alone PG, can playmake with the ball in their hands often. Westbrook isn't a gifted passer by any means and even he can average 8+ assists, and even 10+ assists for multiple years in a row. That's nothing special especially in this freedom of movement era.

That core has potential but they were derailed by injuries earlier this year when they actually had a winning record 8 games in iirc. Then they just stopped playing defense. Capela was badly needed.

I have a good friend that's a huge fan of Trae but he's just not there yet, at all. You're not winning a championship with him as your best player let's be real.

[Clippersfan86]

Any serviceable player, let alone PG, can playmake with the ball in their hands often. Westbrook isn't a gifted passer by any means and even he can average 8+ assists, and even 10+ assists for multiple years in a row. That's nothing special especially in this freedom of movement era.

That core has potential but they were derailed by injuries earlier this year when they actually had a winning record 8 games in iirc. Then they just stopped playing defense. Capela was badly needed.

I have a good friend that's a huge fan of Trae but he's just not there yet, at all. You're not winning a championship with him as your best player let's be real.

If you're comparing Trae's passing/playmaking to someone like Westbrook, again I implore you to watch more film. He's been a great passer since day 1. If it was so easy, why is Westbrook averaging 2.5 less assists per game despite having the NBA's leading scorer next to him? If it's so easy, why are only 5 guys averaging over 8 assists per game? If anything the data shows that assists are WAY down compared to previous eras, DESPITE all the freedom offensive players have now. Why is that?

Also I'm not about to count someone out as being the best player on a title team in the future who is putting up 30/9/4 as a 21 year old, 2nd year player. It's just a bad bet.

[Clippersfan86]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0c12R0qwfxc

AS A ROOKIE MAN. Please watch film. Trae is an elite passer/playmaker. His vision and accuracy is nuts for a PG who's main goal is to score. I haven't seen a rookie with this kind of passing in YEARS. Lebron's fluky 11 apg season won't happen again, and Trae will likely lead the league in assists for the next 5-10 years. Not to say Lebron ISN'T an elite playmaker, because he is... but he's usually more of a scorer/less of a playmaker than this year, and I expect regression to the mean.

[light]

Very low. Literally nothing is impressive about him to me besides his three point shot.

So you like his three point shot. Ok. There's nothing impressive about him being the only player in history to average 29 points and 9 assists while shooting over .347 from three?

Just the fact that he averaged 29 points and 9 assists put him on a list with Oscar Robertson, Tiny Archibald, James Harden and Russell Westbrook - all hall of famers. That's not impressive?

[BigShotBob]

If you're comparing Trae's passing/playmaking to someone like Westbrook, again I implore you to watch more film. He's been a great passer since day 1. If it was so easy, why is Westbrook averaging 2.5 less assists per game despite having the NBA's leading scorer next to him? If it's so easy, why are only 5 guys averaging over 8 assists per game? If anything the data shows that assists are WAY down compared to previous eras, DESPITE all the freedom offensive players have now. Why is that?

Also I'm not about to count someone out as being the best player on a title team in the future who is putting up 30/9/4 as a 21 year old, 2nd year player. It's just a bad bet.

Too much 3 point shot jacking explains why assists are down.

Trae Young struggled mightily before the all-star break his rookie year. Luka is a much better passer and playmaker by comparison since day one if we're being honest.

I'm counting him out. Stats in this era mean literally nothing without winning involved.

[Clippersfan86]

BTW with a full lineup (minus Capela) this year, the Hawks are basically a .500 team. If John Collins didn't get suspended 20 games and they have a healthy Capela for a full season they are likely a 6-8 seed. That's not factoring in the big growth I expect from Trae/Collins/Hunter/Reddish/Huerter. I honestly think the Hawks have the best young core in the NBA. Far superior to the overhyped Grizzlies core for example.

[Clippersfan86]

Too much 3 point shot jacking explains why assists are down.

Trae Young struggled mightily before the all-star break his rookie year. Luka is a much better passer and playmaker by comparison since day one if we're being honest.

I'm counting him out. Stats in this era mean literally nothing without winning involved.

Then why is one the king of jacking up 3's (Trae) averaging about 9.5 apg? How many 21 year olds with super young teams win? It basically never happens. Steph wasn't winning at this age. The Hawks core is basically a bunch of 1st and 2nd year players that have been in and out of the lineup all year. Collins was suspended like 20 games and is their best all around player, a legit 20/10 guy. Capela has yet to even suit up. I mean if you look at basketball through this black and white lens, it's a good idea to watch more film or read more before making those kind of posts.

Trae struggled as do pretty much all rookie guards. His wall was the first few months of the season. Yet you'll disregard his incredibly dominant, historic 2nd half run??? Or the fact that he's a 30/9/4 21 year old this year?? Luka and Trae are BOTH historically dominant players for their age. Like one of a kind specimens. I will tell you Trae is gaining quickly and it's no longer lopsided. Luka's become a bit of a chucker and his 3 point shooting has been horrid at under 32% at 9+ attempts per game. I love both players a lot. In fact outside of Kawhi they are my two favorite players in the league. Sounds like you have a lot of bias here though.

[BigShotBob]

Then why is one the king of jacking up 3's (Trae) averaging about 9.5 apg? How many 21 year olds with super young teams win? It basically never happens. Steph wasn't winning at this age. The Hawks core is basically a bunch of 1st and 2nd year players that have been in and out of the lineup all year. Collins was suspended like 20 games and is their best all around player, a legit 20/10 guy. Capela has yet to even suit up. I mean if you look at basketball through this black and white lens, it's a good idea to watch more film or read more before making those kind of posts.

Trae struggled as do pretty much all rookie guards. His wall was the first few months of the season. Yet you'll disregard his incredibly dominant, historic 2nd half run??? Or the fact that he's a 30/9/4 21 year old this year?? Luka and Trae are BOTH historically dominant players for their age. Like one of a kind specimens. I will tell you Trae is gaining quickly and it's no longer lopsided. Luka's become a bit of a chucker and his 3 point shooting has been horrid at under 32% at 9+ attempts per game. I love both players a lot. In fact outside of Kawhi they are my two favorite players in the league. Sounds like you have a lot of bias here though.

I hate chucking small guards that monopolize the ball and play very little defense. So yes I am bias against him. He's someone you legitimately have to hide on defense or else you might not be able to win.

Luka reminds me a lot of a college Larry Bird, besides the needless 3 point chucking. But the passing and playmaking is very, very good and he can finish at the rim pretty well. Hope he could develop a post game though.

We'll see when the season starts again how Trae Young comes out. I'll be sure to watch him with a critical eye, but I am critical of a lot of players especially nowadays. We'are a long way away from the golden age.

[Clippersfan86]

I hate chucking small guards that monopolize the ball and play very little defense. So yes I am bias against him. He's someone you legitimately have to hide on defense or else you might not be able to win.

Luka reminds me a lot of a college Larry Bird, besides the needless 3 point chucking. But the passing and playmaking is very, very good and he can finish at the rim pretty well. Hope he could develop a post game though.

We'll see when the season starts again how Trae Young comes out. I'll be sure to watch him with a critical eye, but I am critical of a lot of players especially nowadays. We'are a long way away from the golden age.

Were you alive when they said the same things about Dirk or Steph? I remember them saying "You cant build a winning team around" either due to their bad defense, softness etc early in their careers. Now both are in talks among the top 20 all time players. It's a good opportunity for you to learn not to count out players this young. Trae will never be a really good defender. He very well may get to the Dirk/Steph tier though of slightly below average or average. If the offense stays, that's good enough to win a championship with as your best player. Especially with the right surrounding talent.

[BigShotBob]

Were you alive when they said the same things about Dirk or Steph? I remember them saying "You cant build a winning team around" either due to their bad defense, softness etc early in their careers. Now both are in talks among the top 20 all time players. It's a good opportunity for you to learn not to count out players this young. Trae will never be a really good defender. He very well may get to the Dirk/Steph tier though of slightly below average or average. If the offense stays, that's good enough to win a championship with as your best player. Especially with the right surrounding talent.

Dirk was a monster, especially in 03' when he eviscerated Kevin Garnett. He literally cannot be stopped when he's on.

Steph is different since he's a small guard, so he can't actually impact the game the way Dirk can (protect the paint, rebounding) he needs extremely complimentary pieces to pick up the slack for him. All Dirk needs are extremely solid players that are ready to win and that know their role.

Trae is in the Steph mould. He will never be able to carry a team deep without complimentary pieces, and that could never happen.

[Clippersfan86]

Dirk was a monster, especially in 03' when he eviscerated Kevin Garnett. He literally cannot be stopped when he's on.

Steph is different since he's a small guard, so he can't actually impact the game the way Dirk can (protect the paint, rebounding) he needs extremely complimentary pieces to pick up the slack for him. All Dirk needs are extremely solid players that are ready to win and that know their role.

Trae is in the Steph mould. He will never be able to carry a team deep without complimentary pieces, and that could never happen.

Trae has that.

Collins>Draymond.
Capela=Bogut (when both are healthy and at their best)

The more question marks will be Hunter/Reddish/Huerter's growth. I do think Hunter is going to be a special defender, like a Kawhi lite. He won't have a Klay next to him probably, but they will trade more wing defense for shooting.

[Bronbron23]

That's a bit of revisionist history. Young Steph wasn't given the reigns as much because the team was still prioritizing Monta Ellis over him, and he was nowhere near the ballhandler/playmaker as Trae is. Yes, younger Curry was better off the ball, but I wouldn't say Trae's style isn't conducive to winning. We won't know for a while.

Well i wouldn't say its his style its just that ball dominant system in general dont win chips. Theres a few one offa like bron in 16 and maybe wade in 06 but most chips are won by teams that move the ball. Just look at the last 30 years.

Plus trae is small and dosen't defend well. How many teams have won chips lead by small gaurds period let alone one thats as bad as trae on the defense end. Theres isiah thomas in the late 80's and steph curry in 15 which was a pretty big asterisk. So put those two factors together and im pretty confident saying that a small ball dominant poor defender wont win a chip. Not as the man anyway. If hes 5he second fiddle behind a bron, kawhi, kd or greek than thats a different story.

[ShawkFactory]

Any serviceable player, let alone PG, can playmake with the ball in their hands often. Westbrook isn't a gifted passer by any means and even he can average 8+ assists, and even 10+ assists for multiple years in a row. That's nothing special especially in this freedom of movement era.

That core has potential but they were derailed by injuries earlier this year when they actually had a winning record 8 games in iirc. Then they just stopped playing defense. Capela was badly needed.

I have a good friend that's a huge fan of Trae but he's just not there yet, at all. You're not winning a championship with him as your best player let's be real.

He's literally 21 years old. Chill

[LostCause]

I think he could be Harden-esque in terms of scoring and playmaking, though not as good at getting to the rim,and he’ll never be even average on defense. So with the way the game is played he’ll always have eye-popping numbers but I don’t see him as the best player on a championship team.

[Bronbron23]

He's literally 21 years old. Chill

its notbing against trae its just common sense. Ball dominant systems dont win. Small point gaurds who cant defend dont win. In the 30 years there's only been one player under 6'5 thats lead tbeir team to a chip qnd thats steph and he was lucky.

[Clippersfan86]

Well i wouldn't say its his style its just that ball dominant system in general dont win chips. Theres a few one offa like bron in 16 and maybe wade in 06 but most chips are won by teams that move the ball. Just look at the last 30 years.

Plus trae is small and dosen't defend well. How many teams have won chips lead by small gaurds period let alone one thats as bad as trae on the defense end. Theres isiah thomas in the late 80's and steph curry in 15 which was a pretty big asterisk. So put those two factors together and im pretty confident saying that a small ball dominant poor defender wont win a chip. Not as the man anyway. If hes 5he second fiddle behind a bron, kawhi, kd or greek than thats a different story.

Nothing about Curry is an asterisk LOL. He was neck and neck with KD as the best player on the 2 titles recently and the main reason KD got FMVP is he hit the bigger shots. I think Curry is the perfect example of this theory being wrong.

[Clippersfan86]

its notbing against trae its just common sense. Ball dominant systems dont win. Small point gaurds who cant defend dont win. In the 30 years there's only been one player under 6'5 thats lead tbeir team to a chip qnd thats steph and he was lucky.

PG's aren't often the best player on a team historically, but that's changing now. Also you may wanna look up correlation or cause and effect. Just because not many teams HAVE won with their best player being a PG, doesn't mean it's BECAUSE of a PG being the best player.

[Bronbron23]

Nothing about Curry is an asterisk LOL. He was neck and neck with KD as the best player on the 2 titles recently and the main reason KD got FMVP is he hit the bigger shots. I think Curry is the perfect example of this theory being wrong.
Well even if that were true it wouldn't be wrong. It still be 3 chips vs 27. I was talking about 16 when he was the best player. He wasn't the best player while kd was there. Even if you wanna say curry was his equal offensively(which he wasn't) kd was still way better on the other half of the ball so your just wrong their.

Now back to 16. It was absolutely lucky. Cleveland didnt have its 2nd and third best players. One of those being the guy who dropped 30 a game on curry the year after and hit the winning 3 in his face to clinch the series

[Axe]

Would the hawks be better somehow if they never traded luka for trae at all.

[ralph_i_el]

That's a bit of revisionist history. Young Steph wasn't given the reigns as much because the team was still prioritizing Monta Ellis over him, and he was nowhere near the ballhandler/playmaker as Trae is. Yes, younger Curry was better off the ball, but I wouldn't say Trae's style isn't conducive to winning. We won't know for a while.

Well we know he can put up ridiculous numbers and his team might still be really bad.

Box score numbers don't tell you nearly the whole picture when it comes to impact. We need to slow the "on pace to be better than Steph" talk. A ton of dudes put up numbers better than young Steph, and almost non of them got close to peak Steph.

[ralph_i_el]

He's the best playmaker in the NBA outside of Lebron.


Best playmaker in the league....leads the 26th most efficient offense?

I know his team's not good, but the best playmakers in the league generally end up leading top offenses.

You are borderline delusional on the Hawk's prospects.

[GimmeThat]

roughly 11 years in the current league

[light]

Well we know he can put up ridiculous numbers and his team might still be really bad.

Box score numbers don't tell you nearly the whole picture when it comes to impact. We need to slow the "on pace to be better than Steph" talk. A ton of dudes put up numbers better than young Steph, and almost non of them got close to peak Steph.

But a ton of dudes don't put up Trae's numbers. Actually, no one has - just Trae.

29/9 in your 2nd season, making 200 threes in 60 games at 36%, is just stupid.

The dude is the future. Steph who?

[ralph_i_el]

But a ton of dudes don't put up Trae's numbers. Actually, no one has - just Trae.

29/9 in your 2nd season, making 200 threes in 60 games at 36%, is just stupid.

The dude is the future. Steph who?

These are just numbers dude. He's got a 100% green light to dominate the offense....and it's not leading to good TEAM results.

I honestly don't care about how many points one guy scores. I'm interested in how their play enables their TEAM to score at a high rate.

Steve Nash putting up 15/10 was still a much much better player than Trae right now putting up 29/9. The numbers don't tell the story.

Every player in the NBA can score when put in the right positions. An elite playmaker gets the best out of even below average players.

[Clippersfan86]

These are just numbers dude. He's got a 100% green light to dominate the offense....and it's not leading to good TEAM results.

I honestly don't care about how many points one guy scores. I'm interested in how their play enables their TEAM to score at a high rate.

Steve Nash putting up 15/10 was still a much much better player than Trae right now putting up 29/9. The numbers don't tell the story.

Every player in the NBA can score when put in the right positions. An elite playmaker gets the best out of even below average players.

You don't think any other players in history went to bad teams and had the green light lol?? They don't put up 30/9/4 on 60%+ TS on super high volume and usage. It happens every year damn near. Also I've gone through it here, but the Hawks aren't even that bad. Even with Capela out all year, they are about .500 with John Collins in the lineup. He missed the first 20 due to suspension. Or do you believe a 20/10 type big is also doing nothing to move the needle lol?

Very few players win at a high level their first two years. Even the GOAT candidates don't do this. Jordan, LeBron for example didn't make the playoffs year one, or a deep playoff run for a few years.

Nash was also like 30, Trae is 21. That's what you aren't grasping too well. If anything, what we are seeing from Trae DESPITE the opposing teams knowing he's THE guy every night, bodes well for the future

[Clippersfan86]

Best playmaker in the league....leads the 26th most efficient offense?

I know his team's not good, but the best playmakers in the league generally end up leading top offenses.

You are borderline delusional on the Hawk's prospects.

How bad were the AD Pelican defenses? Guess AD was a shit defender? I mean... You are using correlation as cause and effect. Anyone watching film, knows Trae is a REALLY good passer/playmaker. The wins will come as he and the team mesh. If you look at their production with a full starting 5 this year and project Capela to the mean, they would of been a playoff team this year for sure. A 6-8 seed. So why let weird circumstances like Capela out all year, Collins out 20 games to determine Year's value?

[brooks_thompson]

I see Morant being a 22 & 8 type guy in a couple years, and probably topping out around there stats wise. But I also see him being a more impactful player than even a 30/10 Trae Young. Young is really good but he seems like a 2-D player...there’s something missing, and it’s not just the defense.

[tpols]

making 200 threes in 60 games at 36%, is just stupid.


Can anyone verify how trae plays?

is he a harden type or a chef type?

[Clippersfan86]

I see Morant being a 22 & 8 type guy in a couple years, and probably topping out around there stats wise. But I also see him being a more impactful player than even a 30/10 Trae Young. Young is really good but he seems like a 2-D player...there’s something missing, and it’s not just the defense.

Morant has become the most overrated young player in the NBA hands down. Hes really athletic and can score. That's less dimensions than we've seen from Trae. I still have a bias towards passing PG's and despite his otherworldly scoring, Trae is a damn good PG. 9.5 assists without Collins 20 games, Capela period? I mean he'd likely be around 11 apg in year two if he had both guys. That's not normal for 30 ppg scorers.

[ralph_i_el]

You don't think any other players in history went to bad teams and had the green light lol?? They don't put up 30/9/4 on 60%+ TS on super high volume and usage. It happens every year damn near. Also I've gone through it here, but the Hawks aren't even that bad. Even with Capela out all year, they are about .500 with John Collins in the lineup. He missed the first 20 due to suspension. Or do you believe a 20/10 type big is also doing nothing to move the needle lol?

Very few players win at a high level their first two years. Even the GOAT candidates don't do this. Jordan, LeBron for example didn't make the playoffs year one, or a deep playoff run for a few years.

Nash was also like 30, Trae is 21. That's what you aren't grasping too well. If anything, what we are seeing from Trae DESPITE the opposing teams knowing he's THE guy every night, bodes well for the future

Dude, they were 15-26 with steroid (sorry, HGH) boy in the lineup. That's on pace for 30 wins....which is what they were on pace for anyways. Collins is a bad defender, and 20/10 doesn't mean shit anymore when your team plays at a faster rate than the 7-seconds-or-less Suns. Also, if you look at his splits, Collins really only had good games against bad teams, and got owned against playoff teams. **** Collins, he's a cheater.

The Rockets got rid of Capela for a reason. They were way better with him off the floor, because he can't shoot or pass. He looks good if all you watch are box scores :confusedshrug:


My point about Nash was that box score stats don't necessarily mean impact on winning.

The difference between comparing a defensive stopper like AD to a playmaker like Trae, is that a playmaker can touch the ball every play, whereas you can often avoid a good defender and just attack weak defenders (like Trae). The league's best playmakers usually can lead a good offense even with bad teams around them.

[ralph_i_el]

Very few players win at a high level their first two years. Even the GOAT candidates don't do this. Jordan, LeBron for example didn't make the playoffs year one, or a deep playoff run for a few years.



They traded away a guy who is literally doing this as we speak. If you adjust for pace (Hawks play a very high pace, Mavs play a low pace relative to the league right now) Doncic is actually scoring AND assisting more per-100 possessions, leading LITERALLY THE MOST EFFICIENT OFFENSE IN HISTORY, with no other all stars, on pace to win 50 games.

[Bronbron23]

PG's aren't often the best player on a team historically, but that's changing now. Also you may wanna look up correlation or cause and effect. Just because not many teams HAVE won with their best player being a PG, doesn't mean it's BECAUSE of a PG being the best player.

I didnt say point gaurd i said small point gaurds. Magic won 5. I consider lebron a point gaurd and hes won 3. At some point it has to be true. Out of the countless nba finals only a handful have been won with small point gaurds leading the team. At some point it cant just be coincidence

[Clippersfan86]

They traded away a guy who is literally doing this as we speak. If you adjust for pace (Hawks play a very high pace, Mavs play a low pace relative to the league right now) Doncic is actually scoring AND assisting more per-100 possessions, leading LITERALLY THE MOST EFFICIENT OFFENSE IN HISTORY, with no other all stars, on pace to win 50 games.

Both are special. Doncic has his warts too. Like being a 32% 3 point shooter on 9 attempts, while chucking a bunch of bad shots. I know it may be really hard for you to figure out, and you'd rather be closeminded, but maybe... just maybe the Mavs have a better TEAM? Maybe, just maybe... the Hawks are way younger as a whole and don't have any stable vets whatsoever pretty much? A bunch of 1st and 2nd year players as your entire rotation isn't going to win much.

[Clippersfan86]

Dude, they were 15-26 with steroid (sorry, HGH) boy in the lineup. That's on pace for 30 wins....which is what they were on pace for anyways. Collins is a bad defender, and 20/10 doesn't mean shit anymore when your team plays at a faster rate than the 7-seconds-or-less Suns. Also, if you look at his splits, Collins really only had good games against bad teams, and got owned against playoff teams. **** Collins, he's a cheater.

The Rockets got rid of Capela for a reason. They were way better with him off the floor, because he can't shoot or pass. He looks good if all you watch are box scores :confusedshrug:


My point about Nash was that box score stats don't necessarily mean impact on winning.

The difference between comparing a defensive stopper like AD to a playmaker like Trae, is that a playmaker can touch the ball every play, whereas you can often avoid a good defender and just attack weak defenders (like Trae). The league's best playmakers usually can lead a good offense even with bad teams around them.

Your arguments are all over the place. As for the record, I didn't watch them much right before the break, where they lost 8 of 10. Prior to that they had been playing around .500 ball with Collins in the lineup. Regardless, it's clear him coming back helped tremendously. Also Collins is a pretty good defender for a young big. Not elite, but shows flashes of playing great D and is a non issue there. As for Capela, the Rockets 2 years ago almost completely stopped running PNR with Capela, so how do you expect him to impact the game? If your offense is iso 3's and fastbreak 3's... and you stop going inside on cuts/PNR.. of course his impact will be minimized. Now he's got one of the best lob passers, PNR point guards in the league that has been needing that roll threat/shot blocker. Capela is just 26 years old man. People just forget he hit prime early (like Ibaka did, although he's likely 35 in reality) and still has a lot left in the tank.

Also... when you have Capela at the rim, I promise you Trae getting beat on PNR etc will be a much smaller problem. It's much harder for a team to stop Trae than it is for Trae to guard.

[Turbo Slayer]

Trae Young is garbage on defense. He's going to get exploited b/c of his defense. Teams will look to expose the defense and force the switch on Trae Young who is a terrible on ball defender.

[ShawkFactory]

Can anyone verify how trae plays?

is he a harden type or a chef type?

He’s far more like Harden. But I think he can be even craftier and I don’t think he wants to score like Harden.

He has the green light to do whatever right now but on a good team I don’t think he’s taking 12 threes a game or whatever. Harden has that “I’m gonna get mine” vibe to him that I don’t think Trae has. At least not to the same degree

[Bronbron23]

Trae Young is garbage on defense. He's going to get exploited b/c of his defense. Teams will look to expose the defense and force the switch on Trae Young who is a terrible on ball defender.

Yeah the defense aspect is huge but on the right squad with the right defensive pieces i could maybe see him getting lucky and winning one like steph did. Thats a big maybe though. Stephs shooting puts alot of stress on defenses even when he dosnt have the ball in his hands. I dont think defenses will ever worry about Trae like that. He's a good shooter but hes no steph

[ralph_i_el]

Both are special. Doncic has his warts too. Like being a 32% 3 point shooter on 9 attempts, while chucking a bunch of bad shots. I know it may be really hard for you to figure out, and you'd rather be closeminded, but maybe... just maybe the Mavs have a better TEAM? Maybe, just maybe... the Hawks are way younger as a whole and don't have any stable vets whatsoever pretty much? A bunch of 1st and 2nd year players as your entire rotation isn't going to win much.

The Mavs are older than the Hawks, but are still a young team. The oldest player who gets significant minutes is Seth Curry at 29. Their stars are 21 and 24 (and Kristaps is still getting into shape from his injury). Their vets are not a bunch of highly sought after guys, as they are set up for a rebuilding phase. Every one of these role players just put up by far their best shooting years playing next to Luka...because that's what happens when you are playing a truly great playmaker.

[Clippersfan86]

The Mavs are older than the Hawks, but are still a young team. The oldest player who gets significant minutes is Seth Curry at 29. Their stars are 21 and 24 (and Kristaps is still getting into shape from his injury). Their vets are not a bunch of highly sought after guys, as they are set up for a rebuilding phase. Every one of these role players just put up by far their best shooting years playing next to Luka...because that's what happens when you are playing a truly great playmaker.

It's all relative. Mavs are pretty young, but they have useful vets and good leaders. Outside of VC, who is retiring the Hawks don't play anyone else over like 25. They are just super inexperienced and don't know how to win.

[fsvr54]

Steve Nash is an example of an all time great PG with weak defense. so I don't get those arguments, the team has other players for that and Trae has actually improved this year but no one watches Hawks games and still like to talk shit.

Cam Reddish is going to be our best player. Dude will be absolutely nuts. He was putting it together the second half of the season and it was scary. Best rookie defender too.

[Turbo Slayer]

Just watched a game of Hawks vs Knicks (full game). https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XmTfQVaWMu8

The eye test says all.

Bad as expected

Defense leaves a lot to be desired. A lot of moments where he lacks awareness and is slow to react and read plays.

14:45 - He was beat 1v1 by Morris Sr. He had terrible footwork and he didn't stay on his man very well. Not good.

22:12 - Slow feet, he was beat by Nitilikina.

25:44 - Slow to react. His help defense was lousy and late.

33:10 - He was not aware of the opposing player in the 3 point corner. If that was Korver he would made Young pay for that.

48:53 - Risky gamble on pass allowing middle penetration which is a no-no.

[Turbo Slayer]

On the other hand, his passing is top tier. Trae Young would definitely hang in there with the top dogs. The eye test favors Young on this one.

Awesome as expected! :D

13:47 - Trae Young outlet pass. Made a bold decision that paid off. Great vision!

32:24 - behind the back pass; amazing awareness

32:31 - He passed to the open man instead of taking a low percentage shot aka contested floater

46:37 - Good in Pick N Roll!!

50:17 - Exposed the lousy transition defense

50:53 - Pass to a cutter for the easy bucket

1:03:25 - Pass to a open man

1:05:25 - Great vision; lob pass; a bit off there but if he masters it it would be extremely useful

1:18:49 - Good pass in traffic

1:23:35 - Good pass

1:40:43 - Behind the back pass

Trae Young leads #2 in the league right now and led the league #4 last year (assists per game) so the future is very bright! He already has amazing vision (comparable to LeBron I might add, maybe I might be reaching too far but nevertheless a great passer and Young should be rightfully be commended for that! :D).

[Turbo Slayer]

Steve Nash is an example of an all time great PG with weak defense. so I don't get those arguments, the team has other players for that and Trae has actually improved this year but no one watches Hawks games and still like to talk shit.

Cam Reddish is going to be our best player. Dude will be absolutely nuts. He was putting it together the second half of the season and it was scary. Best rookie defender too. Response to bolded: A guy that averages 10.5 point is your future best player on your team? Lol. I'm curious to why you think he is the future.

[fsvr54]

Response to bolded: A guy that averages 10.5 point is your future best player on your team? Lol. I'm curious to why you think he is the future.

You'd have to watch the games, the eye test. Like i said, his second half was FAR superior to the first. For one, other than Trae and John, hes had a few 20+ point games, but with Trae sometimes its hard to get enough touches. When he started hitting his stride, the game looked far more natural to him than early on. he struggled with injuries and confidence.

Secondly, on defense he is an absolute beast. Future DPOY level. He causes a lot of problems fro fully grown men on that end.

[Turbo Slayer]

You'd have to watch the games, the eye test. Like i said, his second half was FAR superior to the first. For one, other than Trae and John, hes had a few 20+ point games, but with Trae sometimes its hard to get enough touches. When he started hitting his stride, the game looked far more natural to him than early on. he struggled with injuries and confidence.

Secondly, on defense he is an absolute beast. Future DPOY level. He causes a lot of problems fro fully grown men on that end. Very well. I wish your team luck.

[ralph_i_el]

Response to bolded: A guy that averages 10.5 point is your future best player on your team? Lol. I'm curious to why you think he is the future.

He did end the season on a really high note. Don't count him out. I'd want him on my team going forward. His is a bit of a risk, but he's a better risk of becoming a star than like, Kelly Oubre at the wing position.

[bobopenguin]

let's all be honest here.
if mavs wanna trade luka to hawks today, right now, hawks will do it and send picks + other players along with it.
if hawks wanna trade trae to mavs, Cuban would be like, "lmao"

trae and doncic might have much closer gap than we think, but market value is totally different.
Doncic already won most Muricat + Eu + Asian (white fever) fans, and trae? maybe in atlanta.

[Axe]

let's all be honest here.
if mavs wanna trade luka to hawks today, right now, hawks will do it and send picks + other players along with it.
if hawks wanna trade trae to mavs, Cuban would be like, "lmao"
They should have never conducted the trade back in 2018 then, considering that luka was drafted by the hawks.

[Turbo Slayer]

let's all be honest here.
if mavs wanna trade luka to hawks today, right now, hawks will do it and send picks + other players along with it.
if hawks wanna trade trae to mavs, Cuban would be like, "lmao"

trae and doncic might have much closer gap than we think, but market value is totally different.
Doncic already won most Muricat + Eu + Asian (white fever) fans, and trae? maybe in atlanta. True. Luka Doncic had a faster development than Young.

[fsvr54]

let's all be honest here.
if mavs wanna trade luka to hawks today, right now, hawks will do it and send picks + other players along with it.
if hawks wanna trade trae to mavs, Cuban would be like, "lmao"

trae and doncic might have much closer gap than we think, but market value is totally different.
Doncic already won most Muricat + Eu + Asian (white fever) fans, and trae? maybe in atlanta.

They wouldn't though, you have a Luka Doncic avatar.

Trae is on pace to be the best PG in the league, he's still very young, no pun intended.

[ralph_i_el]

True. Luka Doncic had a faster development than Young.

It's just also way easier to impact the game at 6'7" vs maybe 6'1". Trae has to match up with a much tougher group of players to guard than Luka does. Small guards (I'd say 6'4" and below) face a much more competitive path to the NBA than taller players, so every night you're facing a guy who can make your life difficult in some way.

Luka, on the whole, has way more mismatches available to attack than Trae. It just makes the game a lot easier for him, even if Trae is a more skillful shooter and ball-handler.

[imdaman99]

Trae Young is garbage on defense. He's going to get exploited b/c of his defense. Teams will look to expose the defense and force the switch on Trae Young who is a terrible on ball defender.

For the record I like Trae. I think he's gonna be special offensively. But his defense is so bad, he will get bullied by anyone that side of the court. I think the Hawks when they get good, will have to sub him out at the end of games to get stops. I think he got benched at the end of the all star game (when everyone started playing D). I know that's extreme since everyone on the court is pretty gifted offensively but that is his future.

[Turbo Slayer]

For the record I like Trae. I think he's gonna be special offensively. But his defense is so bad, he will get bullied by anyone that side of the court. I think the Hawks when they get good, will have to sub him out at the end of games to get stops. I think he got benched at the end of the all star game (when everyone started playing D). I know that's extreme since everyone on the court is pretty gifted offensively but that is his future. In a few years we will see if Young puts up stats that actually impacts his team or he puts up stats that hurts the team.

[Bronbron23]

They wouldn't though, you have a Luka Doncic avatar.

Trae is on pace to be the best PG in the league, he's still very young, no pun intended.

Come on dude they absolutely would. Your in denial if you think they wouldn't

[fsvr54]

How is Luka more developed? Their averages are close as hell. Trae has more assists, higher 3pt%, bigger career high. To act like it's some disparity is either disingenuous or ignorant. Luka is not a good defender btw.

They are the 1a and 1b sophomores. Look at the ****ing stats

[totti950]

I think he will be a great player in the years to come but just needs to be on a better team.

[ralph_i_el]

How is Luka more developed? Their averages are close as hell. Trae has more assists, higher 3pt%, bigger career high. To act like it's some disparity is either disingenuous or ignorant. Luka is not a good defender btw.

They are the 1a and 1b sophomores. Look at the ****ing stats

Why even bother to watch games? Just look at box scores!

[ncrizzle]

Morant has become the most overrated young player in the NBA hands down. Hes really athletic and can score. That's less dimensions than we've seen from Trae. I still have a bias towards passing PG's and despite his otherworldly scoring, Trae is a damn good PG. 9.5 assists without Collins 20 games, Capela period? I mean he'd likely be around 11 apg in year two if he had both guys. That's not normal for 30 ppg scorers.


Morants best skill is arguably his playmaking......But yeah lets leave that one out

[Kpopmaxxer]

Damian Lillard.

A flawed offensive superstar who gets to the playoffs and once in a while everyone shout 'blow it up' because he keeps losing in the first or 2nd round.

Can he headline a championship team?
Maybe.

How?
A generational defensive anchor + an elite wing defender on his team. (See Klay&Dray)


I doubt if he would be as good as Curry unless he has the same perfect system

[Turbo Slayer]

Lillard is amazing. Loved that shot vs the Thunder and that wave off. Cool as ****.

[fsvr54]

Why even bother to watch games? Just look at box scores!

That's what I would say about Trae haters/Luka dickriders. They don't even watch full Hawks games.

[Clippersfan86]

Morants best skill is arguably his playmaking......But yeah lets leave that one out

He's a good playmaker, but Trae is a lot better. I shouldn't be so harsh though, because I do genuinely love what Morant brings and his heart. He also seems like a good dude and is just a rookie. He's gonna be a superstar also IMO. I just hate how much people try to diminish Trae, so it's hard to avoid comparisons.

[ralph_i_el]

That's what I would say about Trae haters/Luka dickriders. They don't even watch full Hawks games.

I try to spend my limited time watching good teams.

[ncrizzle]

He's a good playmaker, but Trae is a lot better. I shouldn't be so harsh though, because I do genuinely love what Morant brings and his heart. He also seems like a good dude and is just a rookie. He's gonna be a superstar also IMO. I just hate how much people try to diminish Trae, so it's hard to avoid comparisons.


Better,but i wouldnt say a lot

[Axe]

That's what I would say about Trae haters/Luka dickriders. They don't even watch full Hawks games.
Imagine if both teams never traded those guys for each other.

But then again, the mavs didn't compete in the playoffs since four years ago.