Wind Turbines Cause Cancer

[MaxFly]

I haven't heard this argument before. (https://www.newsweek.com/donald-trump-wind-power-windmills-noise-cancer-renewable-energy-birds-1384338)

[QUOTE]President Donald Trump renewed his campaign against wind power during a rambling speech at a National Republican Congressional Committee dinner on Tuesday, suggesting wind turbines undermine property values, kill birds and even cause cancer.

[SomeBlackDude]

said it in the dem bashing thread. dude is clearly suffering from early onset dementia. worse than reagan was.

slurred speech.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kYO22As-ULE

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qUPsNgmXR7M

forgetfullness.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SrIQGIS-mDo


and the f*ckery with the wind cancer = clear confusion.

the man needs help. :(

[TheMan]

said it in the dem bashing thread. dude is clearly suffering from early onset dementia. worse than reagan was.

slurred speech.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kYO22As-ULE

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qUPsNgmXR7M

forgetfullness.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SrIQGIS-mDo


and the f*ckery with the wind cancer = clear confusion.

the man needs help. :(
In b4 Trumpies claim he said it in jest...

[DukeDelonte13]

I don't know why but it seems like the world is getting dumber and relishing in it.

Climate change is not real.

The earth is flat.

Vaccines cause autism.

Evolution isn't real.

Now wind power is harmful.

Just dumb. :hammerhead:

[CeltsGarlic]

Funny cancer joke mr trump

[MrFonzworth]

Uhm ACTUALLY, if you watched the speech, the statement on cancer is clearly satirical, it's a meta commentary on fake news, and also, it serves as a metaphor to how he wants people to look past the outer shell of a comment, and look into the true core of the situation, it makes sense in context, and ALSO, in the original statement, Trump intended an allusion to, the fact that Clinton was spotted kissing KKK leader Robert Byrd, (graveyard for byrds) how convenient of op to leave that word play out, there's a lot of SUBLETIES at play here, that are clearly going WAY over your guys' heads.

[bladefd]

Moron can trash renewable energy like solar/wind as much as he wants, but it's here to stay. Coal is down from generating 40% of our electricity to 28% in under a decade (should be down to low 20s by time Trump loses election next year). Trump administration has lifted caps and laws limiting coal, but to no avail. Solar keeps dropping in costs year after year and even natural gas has destroyed coal.

The next Democrat president will bring that low 20s into mid-tens. Coal's dead. Renewable energy (solar, wind, hydro/biomass/geothermal in certain areas) and clean energy (latest 21st century nuclear) are here and here to stay. Natural gas is not clean or renewable but muuuuuch cleaner than burning coal/oil. Coal should have been gone in 90s if we had invested more in things like solar, but we didn't because we were too stuck thinking about the present and not the future... Oil needs to be targeted next to be replaced by electric cars/appliances/etc.

[Facepalm]

He's hated windmills ever since he tried to ban them off the coast of one of his Scotland resorts and lost.

[SomeBlackDude]

He's hated windmills ever since he tried to ban them off the coast of one of his Scotland resorts and lost.

don j. quixote

http://quirkyberkeley.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/Punch_Crimea_smaller-8.jpg

[The Iron Fist]

Uhm ACTUALLY, if you watched the speech, the statement on cancer is clearly satirical, it's a meta commentary on fake news, and also, it serves as a metaphor to how he wants people to look past the outer shell of a comment, and look into the true core of the situation, it makes sense in context, and ALSO, in the original statement, Trump intended an allusion to, the fact that Clinton was spotted kissing KKK leader Robert Byrd, (graveyard for byrds) how convenient of op to leave that word play out, there's a lot of SUBLETIES at play here, that are clearly going WAY over your guys' heads.
Are you donny or eric?

[Facepalm]

Funny how Trump fails to mention that oil refining and coal production cause cancer

[qrich]

(should be down to low 20s by time Trump loses election next year).

Is that before or after impeachment?

[bladefd]

Is that before or after impeachment?

Barely beat a flawed candidate like Hillary Clinton, but now everyone has seen how batsh!t crazy the guy is. His approval rates holding steady in low 40s, often dropping to high 30s :oldlol:

[qrich]

Barely beat a flawed candidate like Hillary Clinton, but now everyone has seen how batsh!t crazy the guy is. His approval rates holding steady in low 40s, often dropping to high 30s :oldlol:

So...after impeachment?

Also is it before or after the last GE? In which he did the schlonging instead of being schlonged like you said?

[bladefd]

So...after impeachment?

Also is it before or after the last GE? In which he did the schlonging instead of being schlonged like you said?

Don't need to be impeached because people will come out in droves to strike down the moron ala 2018 Congressional elections

[qrich]

Don't need to be impeached because people will come out in droves to strike down the moron ala 2018 Congressional elections

But I thought impeachment was guaranteed, like 2016 and now, 2020, according to you?

[bladefd]

But I thought impeachment was guaranteed, like 2016 and now, 2020, according to you?

Nothing is written in stone, brotha. Nothing.

[qrich]

Nothing is written in stone, brotha. Nothing.

I thought 16 was according to you, Lil Donny, Max, TheMan and Highwhey? The last two have at least shown humility.

But yet, here you are, making such statements within weeks of your Russian Conspiracy failing.


I can't wait though to see the Dems focusing on ad hominems and not anything policy related....for the fourth straight cycle!

Wonder if they'll touch the lack of invading a new country?

[NumberSix]

Moron can trash renewable energy like solar/wind as much as he wants, but it's here to stay. Coal is down from generating 40% of our electricity to 28% in under a decade (should be down to low 20s by time Trump loses election next year). Trump administration has lifted caps and laws limiting coal, but to no avail. Solar keeps dropping in costs year after year and even natural gas has destroyed coal.
If it wasn

[bladefd]

I thought 16 was according to you, Lil Donny, Max, TheMan and Highwhey? The last two have at least shown humility.

But yet, here you are, making such statements within weeks of your Russian Conspiracy failing.


I can't wait though to see the Dems focusing on ad hominems and not anything policy related....for the fourth straight cycle!

Wonder if they'll touch the lack of invading a new country?

I admitted a while back I was wrong about 2016/Trump :confusedshrug:

I also openly admit Hillary was the wrong candidate to put against Trump.

As for the Mueller report, lets see the report. Republicans are fighting tooth and nails to ensure report is not released.. Ask yourself why that is? Only thing we have is Barr's word (happens to be Trump's boy), and Trump (his White House lawyers too) now reeling back from wanting report released. Ask yourself why that is?

As for ad hominem attacks.. You have the wrong party and wrong guy.. Check who the president is and get back to me.

As for invading countries.. Check who started the last 2 wars & really f*cked us up then get back to me.

[bladefd]

If it wasn’t for the f*cktards on your side, coal would be at 0% and would have been replaced by nuclear energy decades ago.

I admit that was a mistake beyond 1980s.. I have no issue with being resistant to nuclear reactors before the 1980s with the older class of reactors but not in 1990s and 2000s with newest generation of reactors. I'm sure they are even safer, cleaner and smaller in 2010s..

There is zero question we need to deploy nuclear reactors or more specifically 'molten salt reactors', which is the very latest & best fission reactors currently.. Fusion reactors are still about 30 years away so we need to focus on molten salt reactors until then.. Nuclear/solar/wind is what we need much more of.

[MaxFly]

If it wasn’t for the f*cktards on your side, coal would be at 0% and would have been replaced by nuclear energy decades ago.

I think we need more nuclear plants. There are a lot of new and exciting technologies that we should be incorporating into new plant designs and rollouts. Why is Trump pushing coal more than nuclear, though?

[MaxFly]

There is zero question we need to deploy nuclear reactors or more specifically 'molten salt reactors', which is the very latest & best fission reactors currently.. Fusion reactors are still about 30 years away so we need to focus on molten salt reactors until then.. Nuclear/solar/wind is what we need much more of.

Yup

[NumberSix]

I think we need more nuclear plants. There are a lot of new and exciting technologies that we should be incorporating into new plant designs and rollouts. Why is Trump pushing coal more than nuclear, though?
Pandering + there

[Hawker]

https://www.instituteforenergyresearch.org/fossil-fuels/coal/coal-kept-lights-winter-months/


The winter of 2017/2018 saw freezing weather, causing energy demand to increase above normal levels. One of the longest and intense deep freezes ever recorded for the East Coast of the United States with snow, ice and frigid temperatures occurred between December 27, 2017 and January 8, 2018, placing the East Coast electric grid under extreme stress. The period from January 4th to 6th accounted for three of the top ten winter demand days in the history of the PJM Interconnection. Electricity consumption rose 21 percent over average daily loads during that period.

According to the National Energy Technology Laboratory, coal and oil power plants, many of which are being retired, kept the regional grid from overloading and widespread blackouts from occurring. The Laboratory’s analysis of the PJM system found that coal generation rose from 20 gigawatts to 51 gigawatts of supplied capacity. Natural gas generation averaged about 25 gigawatts, and was limited by pipeline constraints and competition from home-heating. Solar power declined due to the clouds and snow. Wind power also declined.

Not in favor of coal subsidies. In favor of eliminating regulations.

Looks like if the coal generation has to increase 31 gigawatts to heat and power homes in the NE...we're aways off.

Honestly, just shut the valve off and watch NYC freeze. They look down on these people anyway. Just read this thread.

[MaxFly]

[QUOTE=NumberSix]Pandering + there

[MaxFly]

https://www.instituteforenergyresearch.org/fossil-fuels/coal/coal-kept-lights-winter-months/

Not in favor of coal subsidies. In favor of eliminating regulations.

Looks like if the coal generation has to increase 31 gigawatts to heat and power homes in the NE...we're aways off.

Honestly, just shut the valve off and watch NYC freeze. They look down on these people anyway. Just read this thread.

More than wind, solar, or any other renewable, coal has been on the decline and plants have been closing due to an increased trust and reliance on natural gas and the fact that coal plants are becoming prohibitively expensive to operate in comparison. In the Northeast, coal power is being replaced by gas.

But yea, let's eliminate regulations on companies that have gutted the health benefits of their workers suffering from black lung disease and emphysema that they acquired in their line of work. Those are the sorts of companies we can trust to make America great again. :rolleyes:

[Facepalm]

https://gizmodo.com/trumps-goons-now-forced-to-say-they-have-no-idea-whethe-1833795153


[QUOTE]This does mean that the president

[Hawker]

More than wind, solar, or any other renewable, coal has been on the decline and plants have been closing due to an increased trust and reliance on natural gas and the fact that coal plants are becoming prohibitively expensive to operate in comparison. In the Northeast, coal power is being replaced by gas.

But yea, let's eliminate regulations on companies that have gutted the health benefits of their workers suffering from black lung disease and emphysema that they acquired in their line of work. Those are the sorts of companies we can trust to make America great again. :rolleyes:

Yeah - I’m all cool with that bro and recognize it. I’m in oil and gas so I’m all good with natural gas (which Democrats still don’t like...thank fracking for cheap gas prices and abundant energy. And an jndepdent O&G nation.) Read the article - coal had to be ramped up massively so your arrogant ass could be warm in Boston last winter. Can’t remember you giving a shit about workers health back then. Maybe you oughta show some humility and appreciation for these red necks your ilk loves to denigrate and look down on.

I’m in favor of eliminating regulations that are implementing for the purpose of keeping them out of the market - not for the purposes of safety.

Natural gas is replacing coal but as noted - the pipelines still always to go and if coal goes...your ass will freeze and I’m sure you’ll somehow blame private companies.

[Jasper]

I haven't heard this argument before. (https://www.newsweek.com/donald-trump-wind-power-windmills-noise-cancer-renewable-energy-birds-1384338)



:rolleyes:

Please remember that Trump is GREAT , cause he makes AMERICA GREAT.

Unfortunately he and his coal barons feel as if there is NO GLOBAL WARMING.
:facepalm

I have a farm out in N.D. and there are about 200 windmills , unless you stand below one , you can hear it , but I have never seen a dead bird under neath one.

[Jasper]

Yeah - I’m all cool with that bro and recognize it. I’m in oil and gas so I’m all good with natural gas (which Democrats still don’t like...thank fracking for cheap gas prices and abundant energy. And an jndepdent O&G nation.) Read the article - coal had to be ramped up massively so your arrogant ass could be warm in Boston last winter. Can’t remember you giving a shit about workers health back then. Maybe you oughta show some humility and appreciation for these red necks your ilk loves to denigrate and look down on.

I’m in favor of eliminating regulations that are implementing for the purpose of keeping them out of the market - not for the purposes of safety.

Natural gas is replacing coal but as noted - the pipelines still always to go and if coal goes...your ass will freeze and I’m sure you’ll somehow blame private companies. ??
Gas prices in my area are all most $3.

[qrich]

??
Gas prices in my area are all most $3.

Shits over $4 here for premium.

[MaxFly]

https://gizmodo.com/trumps-goons-now-forced-to-say-they-have-no-idea-whethe-1833795153

lol his own party knows he's a God damn fool

I'll be honest, I'm a little disappointed. I thought they'd play it off as a joke, but it's apparent they realize he wasn't joking and weren't prepared for questions. You know it's a problem when otherwise intelligent individuals are reluctant to say that wind turbines don't cause cancer.

[MaxFly]

[QUOTE=Hawker]Yeah - I

[Hawker]

??
Gas prices in my area are all most $3.

Come to Texas.

[Hawker]

Well, my house is heated exclusively by natural gas. Actually, and this was a point of discussion last year... Mass is moving from coal to natural gas and other forms of energy. As is the case across the nation, our last three or four plants were shut down because they were too expensive to operate in comparison to other plants. We've had issues with coal ash inexplicably making its way into waterways and coal companies refusing to do remediate the issues and relying on taxpayer funds to clean it up.

When miners lose their healthcare, taxpayers generally step in to provide monies for care. I think it's the right thing to do and we should continue to do it. I and most Americans have long been concerned about the health and welfare of these workers. Laws have been passed to ensure their safety on the job. Many of those laws were supported by the miners and coal workers themselves but opposed by the coal companies who saw them as additional regulations that would hurt their bottom lines. There have been similar issues with their healthcare. These are fellow Americans and they deserve better from the companies that employ them.



There aren't many regulations designed to keep coal companies out of the market, but to coal companies, any and all regulations that hit their bottom line are designed to hurt their market placement. They've argued that safety rules, health insurance rules, and waterway pollution laws that they've been forced to adopt keep them out of the market.

As for the President repeating the conspiracy theory that wind turbines cause cancer... that's not helpful, wouldn't you agree?

Most of the issues you bring up can be traced back to government intervention or lack of private property rights. That

[MaxFly]

[QUOTE=Hawker]Most of the issues you bring up can be traced back to government intervention or lack of private property rights. That

[bladefd]

Natural gas is replacing coal but as noted - the pipelines still always to go and if coal goes...your ass will freeze and I’m sure you’ll somehow blame private companies.

That's why you want more generation 4 nuclear reactors in Northeast.. Don't need coal.

In winter, you won't get much sunlight up in northeast. Wind is limited unless if you have off-shore turbines 15-20 miles away from coast (currently work in progress), no biomass, no hydro dams, no geothermal.. Your only clean option is nuclear (molten salt reactors as I mentioned).

People are idiots. They hear "nuclear" and piss their pants. They need to some research and educate themselves on nuclear energy since the 80s (3-mile island meltdown and Chernobyl were 70s tech, Chernobyl had major quality issues with shortcuts taken & complete laziness).. It's night and day

[NumberSix]

As for the President repeating the conspiracy theory that wind turbines cause cancer... that's not helpful, wouldn't you agree?
The

[bladefd]

Oh and Fukushima was avoidable too.. They didn't build a tall wall high enough because they didn't think they could get a tsunami as high as they did, when research showed years earlier they could.. They didn't do anything to take that advice serious. Big big mistake.

Tsunami washed away most of the backup generators that were essential in things like flood control & keeping reactors cool/dry. Tsunami even flooded the reactors.. Taller seawall would have helped. They are building one now.

This is why you heed the advice of researchers and scientists (*looks at Fukushima*).. and not take shortcuts (*looks at Chernobyl*)

[Jasper]

Come to Texas.
I was there on a hunt last December , Worst littered highways I have seen in my life.
Only advantage I seen in Texas , you have great Mexican restaurants.

[Hawker]

I didn't realize it was the government's fault that coal companies polluted waterways and refused to clean them up. Sounds like you're saying that federal and local governments should more stringently regulate coal companies in that regard, and force them to pay for cleanups and improvements to prevent the release of ash into waterways. Wouldn't that negatively affect the market standing of these coal companies?



We're talking about the healthcare of coal miners and workers. People are dying from diseases they acquired on the job as miners and workers and now their healthcare is being cut by some of these companies.



As I said before, Mass and other Northeastern states are moving from coal to more natural gas and renewable energy sources. Natural gas specifically has been ramped up considerably.



How did he get such an "incorrect" statement into a speech? Isn't it a concern that the President of the United States consistently says such proveably asinine things... or are we excusing it because we're used to it? And though the investigation into whether Trump and his people coordinated with the Russians in their attempt to interfere in the 2016 election wasn't a conspiracy, are we really going to talk about conspiracy theories when the individual we're talking about forwarded conspiracies about Obama's place of birth, thousands of Muslims in NJ celebrating on 9/11, the war on Christmas, immigrants with Ebola coming to America. If you're really concerned about conspiracies, why do you find it so hard to criticize Trump for the other foolish things he has said?

Do you not understand how private property rights work? Like at all? IF the waterways are privately owned, they are more likely to sue a coal company for polluting their waterway. Not really the case at the moment.

I'm fully aware of you're talking about but you need to recognize the originality of the problem - it was a mistake in the first place to every require companies to offer healthcare and the reason why it was done was based on government intervention. You haven't addressed either of the points I've made directly.

Right - they've been ramped up but will it make up the difference? It's still an issue. I really doubt the majority of the regulations are done specifically for safety as most regulators tend to be academics or environmental activists who have little knowledge of the coal industry.

Dude - it was a conspiracy and proven to be bullshit. Sorry that you continue to refuse reality.

Why is it a concern that he says those things? I'm more interested in policy and the outcome and results of those policies. Worrying about his tweets is low IQ stuff. You can ignore and look at the overall result.

A lot of those are bogus but they don't get anywhere near the mainstream and pop culture attraction that the Russia conspiracy did. Supposed mainstream experts and journalists that like to pretend they are the smartest people in the room got absolutely clowned.

As for the muslims celebrating: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3auKMHkZJnQ

[Hawker]

I was there on a hunt last December , Worst littered highways I have seen in my life.
Only advantage I seen in Texas , you have great Mexican restaurants.

More private property issues.

[MaxFly]

People are idiots. They hear "nuclear" and piss their pants. They need to some research and educate themselves on nuclear energy since the 80s (3-mile island meltdown and Chernobyl were 70s tech, Chernobyl had major quality issues with shortcuts taken & complete laziness).. It's night and day

It's true. People see some of these meltdowns and assume they are almost inevitable, yet most Americans who live within 30 miles of nuclear power plants are unaware of where their electricity comes from. We certainly need more education regarding the new, safer technologies and protocols for 21st-century nuclear power plants. To boot, new plants use fuel rods much more efficiently, are smaller, and can be housed completely underground.

[MaxFly]

The “sound from turbines causes cancer” thing is obviously stupid.

Anyway, where do you think these wind turbines come from? They don’t grow on trees. People have to manufacture them, right?

What if told you that, currently, the amount of energy it takes to make a turbine is more energy than the turbine will produce from wind in its entire lifecycle?

That’s actually true. I’m sure the technology will improve. I don’t know how much. It’s not like windmills are a new technology or something. Maybe it will improve to a point where it’s a net energy reducer but right now it’s a net energy waster.

It is kinda funny though that these turbines are a net contributor to the ‘bad energy’ sources that they’re supposed to replace.

I'm going to try something different with you. Before I respond regarding the EROI of wind turbines, I'm going to give you an opportunity to reverse, clarify or double down on what you've said. This is not a trick; I'm looking forward to what you have to say. Do me a favor though. Don't disappear from the conversation. Do respond.

[highwhey]

[QUOTE=Hawker]Yeah - I

[MaxFly]

Do you not understand how private property rights work? Like at all? IF the waterways are privately owned, they are more likely to sue a coal company for polluting their waterway. Not really the case at the moment.


I'm going to do with you what I did with Six. Before I respond, I'm going to give you an opportunity to figure out why what you are saying here is stupid. You are free to double down on what you have said, or you are free to dismiss it and try a different argument. The issue with what you have posted is pretty obvious... it should be staring you right in the face, but I want to see if you can figure it out. Take a shot.


I'm fully aware of you're talking about but you need to recognize the originality of the problem - it was a mistake in the first place to every require companies to offer healthcare and the reason why it was done was based on government intervention. You haven't addressed either of the points I've made directly.

That has little to do with coal companies cutting health insurance benefits for workers dying as a side effect of their jobs. At the very least, in jobs that have the potential to negatively affect the health of workers, it should be expected that the company benefiting from the work of their employees provide health insurance for those employees in the event they get sick from that work. Those employees should not have to access public or private health insurance on their own. What exactly are you saying... that coal companies should benefit from the labor of their workforce, but should have no responsibility, however partial, for the health and welfare of their workforce in spite of the perils of their work?


Right - they've been ramped up but will it make up the difference? It's still an issue. I really doubt the majority of the regulations are done specifically for safety as most regulators tend to be academics or environmental activists who have little knowledge of the coal industry.


Natural gas is slated to make up the difference. The last coal plant in the state closed about 2 years ago. I don't know about other parts of NE, but we've been running on sources other than coal for 2 years... and much of the state for than that.

List some regulations you think we should get rid of to help the coal industry.


Dude - it was a conspiracy and proven to be bullshit. Sorry that you continue to refuse reality.

A "conspiracy" with a bunch of suspicious activities and interactions that reasonable Republicans, Independents, and Democrats were concerned about. Let's not forget, in the beginning, you guys called suspicions that Russia had sought to interfere with the 2016 election and that the Russians hacked the DNC conspiracy theories as well.

Look, I understand the narrative you're going for, but you're trying too hard. Republicans would have been quick to call for investigations had we discovered that people in Clinton's camp had several interactions with representatives of a foreign adversary about which they lied. I can't imagine what you would say if we found out that Chelsea Clinton held a meeting with Russians to get dirt on Trump. And Republicans would be right to be suspicious, ask questions and look into the matter, just as they were right to be suspicious, ask questions and look into the matter regarding Trump's people. Stop lying to yourself.


Why is it a concern that he says those things? I'm more interested in policy and the outcome and results of those policies. Worrying about his tweets is low IQ stuff. You can ignore and look at the overall result.

He's the President of the United States and the leader of the free world. He represents us at home and abroad. What he says carries weight... his comments move economic markets... people, especially supporters, rely on his judgment and his ability to articulate ideas and policies clearly. Every time he says something moronic, he erodes the office he holds and becomes even more of the caricature that people take him for. There was a time when Republicans and Conservatives used to care about how the President presented himself. They almost lit themselves on fire complaining about Obama's use of a selfie stick as President or his choice of a tan suit. But now the President can actually sound like an idiot in public and they want to pretend it's not happening more and more frequently.


As for the muslims celebrating: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3auKMHkZJnQ


Thousands? Even hundreds?

https://www.factcheck.org/2015/11/trump-carson-on-911-celebrations/

https://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2015/nov/22/donald-trump/fact-checking-trumps-claim-thousands-new-jersey-ch/

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/fact-checker/wp/2015/11/22/donald-trumps-outrageous-claim-that-thousands-of-new-jersey-muslims-celebrated-the-911-attacks/?utm_term=.10d4bdea69e2

https://www.factcheck.org/2016/08/trumps-revised-911-claim/

[Hawker]

I'm going to do with you what I did with Six. Before I respond, I'm going to give you an opportunity to figure out why what you are saying here is stupid. You are free to double down on what you have said, or you are free to dismiss it and try a different argument. The issue with what you have posted is pretty obvious... it should be staring you right in the face, but I want to see if you can figure it out. Take a shot.



That has little to do with coal companies cutting health insurance benefits for workers dying as a side effect of their jobs. At the very least, in jobs that have the potential to negatively affect the health of workers, it should be expected that the company benefiting from the work of their employees provide health insurance for those employees in the event they get sick from that work. Those employees should not have to access public or private health insurance on their own. What exactly are you saying... that coal companies should benefit from the labor of their workforce, but should have no responsibility, however partial, for the health and welfare of their workforce in spite of the perils of their work?



Natural gas is slated to make up the difference. The last coal plant in the state closed about 2 years ago. I don't know about other parts of NE, but we've been running on sources other than coal for 2 years... and much of the state for than that.

List some regulations you think we should get rid of to help the coal industry.



A "conspiracy" with a bunch of suspicious activities and interactions that reasonable Republicans, Independents, and Democrats were concerned about. Let's not forget, in the beginning, you guys called suspicions that Russia had sought to interfere with the 2016 election and that the Russians hacked the DNC conspiracy theories as well.

Look, I understand the narrative you're going for, but you're trying too hard. Republicans would have been quick to call for investigations had we discovered that people in Clinton's camp had several interactions with representatives of a foreign adversary about which they lied. I can't imagine what you would say if we found out that Chelsea Clinton held a meeting with Russians to get dirt on Trump. And Republicans would be right to be suspicious, ask questions and look into the matter, just as they were right to be suspicious, ask questions and look into the matter regarding Trump's people. Stop lying to yourself.



He's the President of the United States and the leader of the free world. He represents us at home and abroad. What he says carries weight... his comments move economic markets... people, especially supporters, rely on his judgment and his ability to articulate ideas and policies clearly. Every time he says something moronic, he erodes the office he holds and becomes even more of the caricature that people take him for. There was a time when Republicans and Conservatives used to care about how the President presented himself. They almost lit themselves on fire complaining about Obama's use of a selfie stick as President or his choice of a tan suit. But now the President can actually sound like an idiot in public and they want to pretend it's not happening more and more frequently.



Thousands? Even hundreds?

https://www.factcheck.org/2015/11/trump-carson-on-911-celebrations/

https://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2015/nov/22/donald-trump/fact-checking-trumps-claim-thousands-new-jersey-ch/

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/fact-checker/wp/2015/11/22/donald-trumps-outrageous-claim-that-thousands-of-new-jersey-muslims-celebrated-the-911-attacks/?utm_term=.10d4bdea69e2

https://www.factcheck.org/2016/08/trumps-revised-911-claim/

Ok...so you dont understand private property rights. Got it.

It has everything to do with coal companies cutting health benefits as they should've never been responsible for it in the first place. Let's solve the problem by eliminating health insurance being linked to employers. You're completely ignoring the root cause.

Yeah, not sure how long it will take for natural gas. As I said, I'm all for natural gas but in the short term, you should depend on coal to pick up any slack. I wouldn't be surprised if it happened again this winter.

As for regulations, I'm making a judgement call based on my experience in oil and gas and comments made by those wanting to regulate it and how uninformed they are. I can surmise it's similar to the coal industry.

I really don't care for your excuses. You never addressed this point - every post you made was an inference or implication of proof. Every one. I'd really like to see you deny that. Not one time did you ever say that Trump could be innocent or it could all be BS. We still don't actually have proof that Russia supposedly hacked the election - only conclusions and statements.

And as far as what the president says...those are all generic low-IQ platitudes. Too much presidential diety worship goes on in the USA. Stop with the "leader of the free world" nonsense. That's one of those statements that everybody repeats and because it's repeated non stop I'm supposed to go along with it like a good little sheep. I work abroad and have been doing so for the past 6 years. I'm doing really great. I meet people every day that think it's cool I'm an american or like america or like Texas. Closeminded liberals in America think they are more important than they really are and oughta get over themselves. Care more about outcome and results and care less about image. Fist pumping and platitudes get us nowhere. Him eroding the office is the best thing about his presidency and I hope he continues to do it and minimize its impact. And nobody cared about Obama and his tan suit. I've only ever heard that brought up by libs on ISH.

He told a half truth and exaggerated. That's what he does. Do you deny there were muslims celebrating in NJ.

[diamenz]

slightly off topic, but i've seen these wind turbines irl and they're a ****in' sight to see. how the f*** do they construct those bad boys is wat i wanna know.

[NumberSix]

slightly off topic, but i've seen these wind turbines irl and they're a ****in' sight to see. how the f*** do they construct those bad boys is wat i wanna know.
Yeah, when you see them on tv you don

[Jasper]

slightly off topic, but i've seen these wind turbines irl and they're a ****in' sight to see. how the f*** do they construct those bad boys is wat i wanna know.
During the ND project that is by my farm , they had huge special semi's hauling segments of the towers to the sight. These windmills came from Sweden if I recall , and wished to have seen some American company take the step.
any case a crane erects them ... The blades are quite long as well , but once the tower is up , workers are on top of the tower and assist in the installation of the blades besides the motor housing.

One neat thing IMO is driving from Wisconsin to the Dakota's Minny is investing in solar power big time , and solar farms are popping up everywhere.
Payback is huge , and it is non-pollutant.

Hawker - stated that turbines put out more energy in running them , then creating energy for the grid .... that is a flat out fib.
When Turbines first start up , it is a slow 'I call it grinding process' ... but that is the only time they spin slower than there standard speed.
They have shut off times , monitored by wind calculators and when they are running it is quite significant the amount of energy they supply.
I am a member of our N.D. electric coop , and the numbers I saw for ND were great.
ND as well as SD are planning on buying more.
By the way ND is the only state in the lower 48 that has a budget in the black.
I don't think Texas , like other states all operate in the red.

[Jasper]

And as far as what the president says...those are all generic low-IQ platitudes. Too much presidential diety worship goes on in the USA. Stop with the "leader of the free world" nonsense. That's one of those statements that everybody repeats and because it's repeated non stop I'm supposed to go along with it like a good little sheep. I work abroad and have been doing so for the past 6 years. I'm doing really great. I meet people every day that think it's cool I'm an american or like america or like Texas. Closeminded liberals in America think they are more important than they really are and oughta get over themselves. Care more about outcome and results and care less about image. Fist pumping and platitudes get us nowhere. Him eroding the office is the best thing about his presidency and I hope he continues to do it and minimize its impact. And nobody cared about Obama and his tan suit. I've only ever heard that brought up by libs on ISH.

.
This is what he was intended to do , then he got into a dictatorship mentality.
Point is you are right his erosion of the position has crescendo the position that we all knew has a bad government.
Point is majority of less educated people voted for him in , and we have it now.
It really is the best comment I have heard about Trump.
Not what he supposedly has done , but what he was supposedly was hired to do , make the presidency a farce.

[Hawker]

This is what he was intended to do , then he got into a dictatorship mentality.
Point is you are right his erosion of the position has crescendo the position that we all knew has a bad government.
Point is majority of less educated people voted for him in , and we have it now.
It really is the best comment I have heard about Trump.
Not what he supposedly has done , but what he was supposedly was hired to do , make the presidency a farce.

The median income is higher for trump voters than Clinton voters. Poor people tend to vote democrat and they aren

[JBSptfn]

I don't know why but it seems like the world is getting dumber and relishing in it.

Climate change is not real.

Vaccines cause autism.

Evolution isn't real.

Just dumb. :hammerhead:

Why we have Global Warming: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=03eeTZBangY

Science Against Evolution: http://scienceagainstevolution.info/index.shtml

Some links about Vaccines (lots of info):

https://jonrappoport.wordpress.com/category/vaccine-fraud/

[MaxFly]

[QUOTE=NumberSix]
The

[MaxFly]

Ok...so you dont understand private property rights. Got it.

I'll give you a hint. Can coal companies own property and waterways adjacent to or in the vicinity of their plants? Can they pollute or even dump in the waterways and on the land they own?


It has everything to do with coal companies cutting health benefits as they should've never been responsible for it in the first place. Let's solve the problem by eliminating health insurance being linked to employers. You're completely ignoring the root cause.


Lol, I'm sorry, you can't solve the current problem of coal workers having lost their much needed health and disability insurance benefits that coal companies have cut by eliminating the link between health insurance and employers. That argument is simply a refusal to deal with the current problem and instead cast the blame elsewhere. The health challenges that many of these coal workers are now enduring are a direct result of the work that they did to benefit these coal companies. It should be offensive to think that these companies that benefited so greatly from these workers are now refusing to help provide for their continued medical care. I'm not even going to touch how prohivitively expensive it could be for coal workers to buy health insurance on the open market.


Yeah, not sure how long it will take for natural gas. As I said, I'm all for natural gas but in the short term, you should depend on coal to pick up any slack. I wouldn't be surprised if it happened again this winter.

Yeah, I don't believe we depend on coal in Mass to pick up the slack. I'm not sure about the rest of NE, but we depend on NG, nuclear and renewables. As for my house, it's heated by NG. :confusedshrug:


As for regulations, I'm making a judgement call based on my experience in oil and gas and comments made by those wanting to regulate it and how uninformed they are. I can surmise it's similar to the coal industry.

That's why I've asked you to list some regulations you think we should get rid of to help the coal industry. Can you name any?


I really don't care for your excuses. You never addressed this point - every post you made was an inference or implication of proof. Every one. I'd really like to see you deny that. Not one time did you ever say that Trump could be innocent or it could all be BS. We still don't actually have proof that Russia supposedly hacked the election - only conclusions and statements.

I've said repeatedly, from the start, that Mueller's investigation could possibly clear Trump, and that a complete and thorough investigation, whatever it concludes, would be good for the nation. What I won't abide by is the notion that that suspicion and concern by investigators and onlookers regarding all of the shady contacts and dealings with Trump's people as well as the lies told by Trump and his people were fabricated. It's quite an insipid and intellectually sloppy attempt at an alternative narrative. We have a bunch of Republicans in power investigating these matters and some want to pretend that there was nothing concerning to look into.

Just today, AG Barr said that Russias interferred in the election. Mueller has indicted numerous Russian actors and has outlined the cases against them in the indictments. He even indicted an American who sold stolen identities and finanical information to Russians. Have you not read any of the indictments in order to see the charges and evidence laid out? Do you not believe that Russia interferred in the 2016 election?


And as far as what the president says...those are all generic low-IQ platitudes. Too much presidential diety worship goes on in the USA. Stop with the "leader of the free world" nonsense. That's one of those statements that everybody repeats and because it's repeated non stop I'm supposed to go along with it like a good little sheep. I work abroad and have been doing so for the past 6 years. I'm doing really great. I meet people every day that think it's cool I'm an american or like america or like Texas. Closeminded liberals in America think they are more important than they really are and oughta get over themselves. Care more about outcome and results and care less about image. Fist pumping and platitudes get us nowhere. Him eroding the office is the best thing about his presidency and I hope he continues to do it and minimize its impact. And nobody cared about Obama and his tan suit. I've only ever heard that brought up by libs on ISH.

Trump has made numerous statements intended to express his views on policies... only for those statements, when examined, to be ridiculed and dismissed by most thinking individuals, including his supporters. And yes, the fall back for many of his supporters is that they are only interested in outcomes and results. He made several statements about trade wars and tariffs that were dismissed as idiotic. And then he put those ideas into effect, and many businesses across the country, including farmers in the midwest, are failing as a result. It doesn't make sense to wait for the President to do the stupid things he talks about before calling them stupid.


He told a half truth and exaggerated. That's what he does. Do you deny there were muslims celebrating in NJ.

I've read more evidence indicating Russia interferred in the 2016 election than I have of muslims celebrating in NJ. Here's the thing... Trump said he personally saw them celebrating... thousands of them. Is that an exaggeration or a lie?

[tomtucker]

they do kill birds though :-(

and the noise they make drive people around them insane

[MaxFly]

I don't think coal is coming back.

[QUOTE]Two more coal producers go bankrupt with 1,800 jobs lost (https://www.salon.com/2019/07/03/trump-said-hed-save-coal-two-more-producers-go-bankrupt-with-1800-jobs-lost/)

... Blackjewel LLC, shuttered two coal mines in Wyoming amid its own bankruptcy filing, leaving 700 workers unemployed, The Casper Star-Tribune reported. The two mines, Eagle Butte and Belle Ayr, are the fourth- and sixth-largest producing coal mines in the country.

In a bankruptcy filing Monday, Blackjewel owner Jeff Hoops cited declining demand for coal and increased consumption of renewable energy as causes for the company

[MaxFly]

He's back to talking about wind again.

[QUOTE]I never understood wind. I know windmills very much, I have studied it better than anybody. I know it is very expensive. They are made in China and Germany mostly, very few made here, almost none, but they are manufactured, tremendous

[diamenz]

i always knew trump was an avid windmill scholar. i wish i could pick his brain about it. windmills are tremendous, and everyone should look into them very strongly.

water, too... in bathrooms. "where the water comes dripping out. very quietly... dripping out... "

[nathanjizzle]

bigotry and ignorance goes hand in hand. Its to be expected that moronic ideas would come out of a bigot like donald trump. Lets go beyond the stupid things he says. In society, stupid people that say dumb things are usually marginalized and therefore we dont have to hear about them or put any weight to the things they say. Unfortunately, since this manipulative brain washing moron took advantage of the sheep mentality that is the make up of the human population, ,we must point out stupid shit he says for everyone to hear and put some value too it just as a rebuttal. The internet has its good and bad, and it seems that the worst parts of the internet are the moronic thoughts of donald trump that continues to leak into the minds of the ever so brain washable herd of sheep human.

[bladefd]

He's back to talking about wind again.



:facepalm

Only part missing is that wind turbines cause cancer.. You guys didn't know that???? :eek:

We must get rid of ALL wind turbines or we will all die from cancer!!!! :eek: :( :(

[The Iron Fist]

Only part missing is that wind turbines cause cancer.. You guys didn't know that???? :eek:

We must get rid of ALL wind turbines or we will all die from cancer!!!! :eek: :( :(
We are all already dead from the caravans. Or did people forget about those already? Oh yea, once the mid terms were over we never heard about any damn caravans again:roll:

[tomtucker]

they do kill birds though :-(

and the noise they make drive people around them insane

they produce both high and low frequency sound waves, which in fact are very unhealthy for humans

[bladefd]

they produce both high and low frequency sound waves, which in fact are very unhealthy for humans

Those sound waves cause cancer, right tom??

[sammichoffate]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yzDjjUAt3zc

This country is ****ing pathetic.

[Hawker]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yzDjjUAt3zc

This country is ****ing pathetic.

lol Vox

Emissions dropped in the US. They increased in Europe. Check the data and stop being anti-science.

[diamenz]

We are all already dead from the caravans. Or did people forget about those already? Oh yea, once the mid terms were over we never heard about any damn caravans again:roll:

in 2020, the dems are coming for your religion.

[Nanners]

I love how climate change is Trumps fault....despite the fact that fossil fuel production increased 88% under Obama (the largest increase of any president in US history), despite the fact that Obama opened huge swaths of long protected arctic territory to fossil fuel exploration, despite the fact that Obama allowed BP to devastate the gulf of mexico with only a minor slap on the wrist as punishment, despite the fact that Obama sent millitarized police to violently confront the natives who dared to protest the pipeline at standing rock

In terms of global warming, Obama is probably the worst president in US history... but of course none of that matters to the dumb**** democrats littering this thread who have no interest in fact or reality

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/M0a73sP00z4/maxresdefault.jpg

How dare you

[CelticBaller]

Emissions are dropping, the planets is getting greener

But please tell us how we

[MaxFly]

Only part missing is that wind turbines cause cancer.. You guys didn't know that???? :eek:

We must get rid of ALL wind turbines or we will all die from cancer!!!! :eek: :( :(

The funny thing about this is that we could have a frank discussion about wind turbines and their general role in attributing to clean energy production if people were serious about having that discussion. Unfortunately we've been reduced to talking about windmill cancer and turbines somehow actually being net polluters. :confusedshrug:

[tomtucker]

Those sound waves cause cancer, right tom??
hmm, in a way they could in the long run.

since those noises stresses a human and cause high blood pressure among many other things, the impact on the immune system is pretty severe.

So in fact they could indirectly cause cancer.

fellow ISH folks, what do think?

[Facepalm]

Would you rather live next to a coal plant, an oil refinery, or a wind turbine?

[sammichoffate]

hmm, in a way they could in the long run.

since those noises stresses a human and cause high blood pressure among many other things, the impact on the immune system is pretty severe.

So in fact they could indirectly cause cancer.

fellow ISH folks, what do think?That's irrational, it's as bad as being out in the sun too long. Being next to a coal mine is way more likely to cause health problems, there's no scientific evidence that they actually cause issues unless you're literally standing underneath them.

[Hawker]

I love how climate change is Trumps fault....despite the fact that fossil fuel production increased 88% under Obama (the largest increase of any president in US history), despite the fact that Obama opened huge swaths of long protected arctic territory to fossil fuel exploration, despite the fact that Obama allowed BP to devastate the gulf of mexico with only a minor slap on the wrist as punishment, despite the fact that Obama sent millitarized police to violently confront the natives who dared to protest the pipeline at standing rock

In terms of global warming, Obama is probably the worst president in US history... but of course none of that matters to the dumb**** democrats littering this thread who have no interest in fact or reality

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/M0a73sP00z4/maxresdefault.jpg

How dare you

Trump Derangement Syndrome...it's a real thing.

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/12/13/us/politics/Donald-Trump-2020.html

[RoseCity07]

He can't be this stupid can he?

[Facepalm]

He can't be this stupid can he?
It's fairly obvious that he is. Trumptards still can't answer me


Would you rather live next to a coal plant, an oil refinery, or a wind turbine?

[rufuspaul]

It's fairly obvious that he is. Trumptards still can't answer me


How about neither? I stayed in a hotel once that was across a lake from a windmill farm. Not only were they an eye sore but the constant hum was annoying. I wouldn't want to live close to there.

As far as sound waves causing harm just ask people from the American consulate in Cuba.

I'm all for renewable energy but impact studies might be a good idea.

[Facepalm]

How about neither? I stayed in a hotel once that was across a lake from a windmill farm. Not only were they an eye sore but the constant hum was annoying. I wouldn't want to live close to there.

As far as sound waves causing harm just ask people from the American consulate in Cuba.

I'm all for renewable energy but impact studies might be a good idea.
Neither? That wasn't an option. You know damn well you'd rather live next to a wind turbine over a refinery or coal plant.

[Jameerthefear]

wind turbines just aren't very efficient. that's the biggest issue. trump is retarded tho.

[qrich]

It's fairly obvious that he is. Trumptards still can't answer me

Would you rather burn to death or drown?

[Facepalm]

Would you rather burn to death or drown?
Still can't answer a legit question. Trumptards at their finest.

[Overdrive]

Would you rather burn to death or drown?

Invalid anology.

[qrich]

Still can't answer a legit question. Trumptards at their finest.

:yawn:

[tomtucker]

That's irrational, it's as bad as being out in the sun too long. Being next to a coal mine is way more likely to cause health problems, there's no scientific evidence that they actually cause issues unless you're literally standing underneath them.

that is very wrong..... also why wind turbine are not allowed near residential buildings , the radius is 4 times the windmill's height...... so if it 100 meter high, no one must live within 400 meters of it.

that is no coincidence....

On top of that, low frequency waves can travel several kilometers through the air. so the 4 times zone will not even help you that much.

[MaxFly]

that is very wrong..... also why wind turbine are not allowed near residential buildings , the radius is 4 times the windmill's height...... so if it 100 meter high, no one must live within 400 meters of it.

that is no coincidence....

On top of that, low frequency waves can travel several kilometers through the air. so the 4 times zone will not even help you that much.


Hmmm... (https://slate.com/technology/2013/03/wind-turbine-syndrome-debunking-a-disease-that-may-be-a-nocebo-effect.html)


Noisy environments can be irritating and sleep-disrupting. But advocates of the new syndrome (which is not medically recognized) say that wind turbines pose specific dangers. They claim that exposure to wind farms’ low-frequency noise, even vibrations below the threshold of human hearing, is having dangerous physiological effects.

Several recent studies might explain what’s going on here. One of them, published in Health Psychology, found that the power of suggestion can induce symptoms associated with wind turbine syndrome. Researchers exposed 60 participants to 10 minutes of infrasound (vibrations too low in frequency to hear) and sham infrasound (that is, silence). Before the listening sessions, half the group was shown television footage of people who lived near wind farms recounting the harmful effects they said were caused by noise from the spinning blades. Within this group, the people who scored high on a test of anxiety became symptomatic whether they were exposed to low-frequency noise or sham infrasound.

As one of the authors of the study points out, this appears to be a classic case of the nocebo effect. It’s the evil twin of the placebo effect, which is often a pain-alleviating response to a sham pill or treatment. Nocebo effects are harmful symptoms that arise from negative information. For example, some participants in medical trials who are warned of potential adverse side effects experience precisely those side effects, even though they’re really taking a phony medication. The nocebo effect is psychogenic, a case of the mind making the body sick.

[warriorfan]

Hmmm... (https://slate.com/technology/2013/03/wind-turbine-syndrome-debunking-a-disease-that-may-be-a-nocebo-effect.html)

Would you like one next to your house?