All NBA... Embiid or Jokic?

[fourkicks44]

So there was much debate preseason.

How does everyone feel now?

Only one will get in to the 1st team.

[AlternativeAcc.]

I dont recall Jokic sitting 20 games, so him

2 seed in the west with no other stars..

Joel doesnt have a strong case at all, save me his empty stats

[And1AllDay]

I dont recall Jokic sitting 20 games, so him

2 seed in the west with no other stars..

Joel doesnt have a strong case at all, save me his empty stats

:applause: :applause:

[fourkicks44]

I dont recall Jokic sitting 20 games, so him

2 seed in the west with no other stars..

Joel doesnt have a strong case at all, save me his empty stats

I don't recall Jokic playing any defense all season.

[PeroAntic]

Embiid is a better player in a vacuum but Jokic has been more important to his team.

[fourkicks44]

Embiid is a better player in a vacuum but Jokic has been more important to his team.

Has he tho? Nuggets seem to take care of business without the Joker.

When Embiid is out the Sixers get destroyed by the Hawks.

Sad but true..

No Embiid, no 76ers...

[Prometheus]

Jokic is good but this shouldn't be a serious debate.

[Manny98]

Give me the guy that isn't Al Horfords bitch

[Kblaze8855]

I dont recall Jokic sitting 20 games, so him

2 seed in the west with no other stars..

Joel doesnt have a strong case at all, save me his empty stats


Philly is gonna finish with 52 wins(55 pace with him playing) and the Nuggets 55. Im not sure why anyone is talking empty stats. Its a good team and a very good team. 28/14/4/2 on a 50+ win team doesnt suggest the production is for nothing.

[Prometheus]

Give me the guy that isn't Al Horfords bitch

This narrative only exists for box score watchers. Boston sends hard doubles at Embiid every time he catches the ball. It ain't Hoford, it's usually the help. And last time they played, it wasn't enough.

[Mask the Embiid]

Awards mean nothing.Everyone on Earth deep down knows who's better.Everyone knows who shrinks vs the warriors and rockets and who takes his game to a new level vs the warriors and rockets.



Some people go all out vs the Bulls and some people sit out games vs the Bulls.

Some people show up vs Boogie Cousins and push his shit in to the point where he calls them the best center in the league that he's played against and some people disappear when they play boogie cousins.

[Mask the Embiid]

This narrative only exists for box score watchers. Boston sends hard doubles at Embiid every time he catches the ball. It ain't Hoford, it's usually the help. And last time they played, it wasn't enough.
He's stupid dont mind him.Ben Simmons is the reason Boston can play Defense like that on him.Horford would get ate alive 1 on 1 just like Brook Lopez and all the others.

He also still puts up his numbers even vs Horford.

[AlternativeAcc.]

Philly is gonna finish with 52 wins(55 pace with him playing) and the Nuggets 55. Im not sure why anyone is talking empty stats. Its a good team and a very good team. 28/14/4/2 on a 50+ win team doesnt suggest the production is for nothing.
Let's pretend for a second the 6ers don't have 3 other all-star caliber players in their starting lineup :oldlol:


You made my argument for me. In a weaker conference with 3 other all-stars in his starting lineup ... 55 wins is the cap. Jokic is winning more with less..

In relation to Jokic, his stats are empty, because Jokic is winning more with much less


76ers WITHOUT Joel should probably win around 55 games on paper.. that's just how stacked they actually are

[Kblaze8855]

They arent really empty compared to anyone. Its just that we fall into overusing buzz words and the same terms over and over to make points. Jokic can be better than Embiid without him being "empty stats". Thats something to say when one guy is winning 25 games and the other is great. 2 50 something win teams?

Its just two guys both doing great but different numbers both clearly changing the outcomes of games.

[AlternativeAcc.]

They arent really empty compared to anyone. Its just that we fall into overusing buzz words and the same terms over and over to make points. Jokic can be better than Embiid without him being "empty stats". Thats something to say when one guy is winning 25 games and the other is great. 2 50 something win teams?

Its just two guys both doing great but different numbers both clearly changing the outcomes of games.
Already covered that.. they're a 50 win team without him.

His stats in the playoffs last year resulted in a fat L despite his roster having more talent. Same stats. Empty results. What's changed? Oh they acquired another superstar in Jimmy Butler and stud Tobias Harris. How much help does dude need?

He's empty until he proves otherwise. Losing in 5 games to an inferior team while putting up big stats is the definition of empty stats

[Mr Exlax]

Give me Goatbiid

[NuggetsFan]

Embiid will get it, but Jokic should. He's played 10+ more games, and most bigs could use rest games like Embiid gets. I think Embiid is probably the better player but Jokic has a better case for All-NBA/MVP votes.

Nobody even had the Nuggets as a playoff lock this season. There near the top of the list in terms of games lost to injuries, and at one point were missing 3 starters. So people at best had us as a 6th-8th seed when we were healthy, yet with all the injuries the Nuggets managed to finish 2nd/3rd overall. Jokic is the only star on the team. Leads the team in PPG, APG, RPG, SPG. Is there literally any other player who does that? Giannis? LeBron?

It's underrated what Jokic has done this season. If any other player shattered expectations putting up the kinda numbers he does with no other "star" they'd be getting way more love. Like at one point George was getting ranked above him in the MVP race, despite the fact that OKC was supposed to be better than Denver, he gets to play with Westbrook, and yet Jokic led the Nuggets above them.

[NuggetsFan]

Has he tho? Nuggets seem to take care of business without the Joker.

When Embiid is out the Sixers get destroyed by the Hawks.

Sad but true..

No Embiid, no 76ers...

Nuggets without Jokic might have picked top 5 this season with all the injuries they've had this season.

Millsap has missed 11 games, Murray has missed 6 games, Barton has only started in 35 games this season, and Harris has only started in 45 games this season. That's literally the Nuggets starting lineup coming into the season :oldlol: 4/5 starters have missed 5+ games, and that's not factoring in how banged up they've been while playing. Harris still looks like a shell of himself right now.

Nuggets are a solid team with a bright future, but Jokic has them playing far above there head. I mean how many C's in the history of the NBA have led there team in assists and scoring? It's unheard of.

Meanwhile Embiid gets to sit out games to rest up ... I get the argument for him being the better player, even agree with it tbh, but I don't get how you can have him over Jokic for All-NBA/MVP given everything.

[NugzFan]

Jokic

[NugzFan]

Embiid will get it, but Jokic should. He's played 10+ more games, and most bigs could use rest games like Embiid gets. I think Embiid is probably the better player but Jokic has a better case for All-NBA/MVP votes.

Nobody even had the Nuggets as a playoff lock this season. There near the top of the list in terms of games lost to injuries, and at one point were missing 3 starters. So people at best had us as a 6th-8th seed when we were healthy, yet with all the injuries the Nuggets managed to finish 2nd/3rd overall. Jokic is the only star on the team. Leads the team in PPG, APG, RPG, SPG. Is there literally any other player who does that? Giannis? LeBron?

It's underrated what Jokic has done this season. If any other player shattered expectations putting up the kinda numbers he does with no other "star" they'd be getting way more love. Like at one point George was getting ranked above him in the MVP race, despite the fact that OKC was supposed to be better than Denver, he gets to play with Westbrook, and yet Jokic led the Nuggets above them.


Well said

[Kblaze8855]

Already covered that.. they're a 50 win team without him.

His stats in the playoffs last year resulted in a fat L despite his roster having more talent. Same stats. Empty results. What's changed? Oh they acquired another superstar in Jimmy Butler and stud Tobias Harris. How much help does dude need?

He's empty until he proves otherwise. Losing in 5 games to an inferior team while putting up big stats is the definition of empty stats


There is going to be only one best player on the title team every year. That doesn’t mean everyone else who plays well is “empty”. Good teams lose every year. People who already won....lose. It’s basketball. A guy in his first full season doesn’t have to lead his team to glory or be “empty”. He’s played two real seasons....both making the playoffs....and a couple playoff series.

What...is every basket, block, and rebound of a players career “empty” till they...what? Win a title? Achieve some arbitrary level of success? You say people can prove to not be empty....what about when guys who already won later get upset? Were the stats of the entire spurs team that lost to 8th seeded Memphis empty? Or can stats only be empty when you personally accumulate big totals?


If you produce poorly and lose are you then exempt from empty stats? Or are your limited stats still empty?

At what point is it just two teams playing which requires one to lose?

Can the loser have anything but empty stats?

You just enter the nba doing exclusively empty numbers till your team wins...what?

It’s just a bullshit cliche for the most part. And the few times it isn’t it shouldn’t be applied to people who have just started their careers. Guy has completed 2 real seasons and had one playoff run and he’s a loser...


This guy is 7’2’’ breaking out crossovers, floaters, eurosteps, dream shakes, knocking down 3s, and playing nasty defense....leading a good team...while also being one of the most fun personalities in all sports....

And people boil it down to empty stats because he’s not won yet....heading into his second post season in as many attempts.

You even appreciate basketball?

I swear people watch sports to hate more than enjoy.

[PeroAntic]

Embiid's stats are far from empty, and just in terms of pure ability and skill he's better than Jokic, but theres no denying his team is way more stacked than the Nuggets. Therefore Jokic is more deserving this season.

[qrich]

Jokic should get the nod, though, Embiid is the better player.

[Ben Simmons 25]

There is going to be only one best player on the title team every year. That doesn’t mean everyone else who plays well is “empty”. Good teams lose every year. People who already won....lose. It’s basketball. A guy in his first full season doesn’t have to lead his team to glory or be “empty”. He’s played two real seasons....both making the playoffs....and a couple playoff series.

What...is every basket, block, and rebound of a players career “empty” till they...what? Win a title? Achieve some arbitrary level of success? You say people can prove to not be empty....what about when guys who already won later get upset? Were the stats of the entire spurs team that lost to 8th seeded Memphis empty? Or can stats only be empty when you personally accumulate big totals?


If you produce poorly and lose are you then exempt from empty stats? Or are your limited stats still empty?

At what point is it just two teams playing which requires one to lose?

Can the loser have anything but empty stats?

You just enter the nba doing exclusively empty numbers till your team wins...what?

It’s just a bullshit cliche for the most part. And the few times it isn’t it shouldn’t be applied to people who have just started their careers. Guy has completed 2 real seasons and had one playoff run and he’s a loser...


This guy is 7’2’’ breaking out crossovers, floaters, eurosteps, dream shakes, knocking down 3s, and playing nasty defense....leading a good team...while also being one of the most fun personalities in all sports....

And people boil it down to empty stats because he’s not won yet....heading into his second post season in as many attempts.

You even appreciate basketball?

I swear people watch sports to hate more than enjoy.

Your post is an example empty stats. Lots of words... no substance.




















lol, kidding.

[elementally morale]

This is the last year they are close.

Embiid is a lot better one on one player and a lot better on defense. Jokic is a better team player. I enjoy both.

This year I'd vote Jokic. But as for potential? Embiid. Jokic won't get any better than he now is. He is very good he may even win a ring this way. But Embiid is a twice or three time a lifetime talent.

Do I have to vote for this year? Jokic. Vote for better player/prospect? Embiid.

[NugzFan]

This is the last year they are close.

Embiid is a lot better one on one player and a lot better on defense. Jokic is a better team player. I enjoy both.

This year I'd vote Jokic. But as for potential? Embiid. Jokic won't get any better than he now is.


:wtf:

[elementally morale]

:wtf:


Jokic is someone like Tim Duncan. Worse than Tim.. but similar. Duncan was great in his first years. I'm not sure he improved that much later. Jokic strikes me as a player who is as good now as he will ever be. (Which is great.)

Jokic won'g faster. Stronger. More athletic. He won't even become a better passer he is already great. Better shooter? Slightly, maybe. The thing he can improve is his defense, I'd say.


Embiid is not as good a basketball player as Jokic is for the time being. Joel is a better individual player both offense and defense. But Jokic is such a great team player... It won't last. I think Embiid will improve. He has a lot more room to.

[NugzFan]

You compared jokic to Duncan

I hate you less now

[elementally morale]

You compared jokic to Duncan

I hate you less now


Jokic is a top 5 player this year. At least. Maybe top 3. He may be the MVP next year or the year after... and he doesn't even need to improve . He may even win a ring or two being the same player he is now. He is that good.

I just don't see much room for improvement. Decision-making and (team + help) defense are areas he can become better.

Embiid's talent is on another (all time great) level. At the moment he is not as good as Jokic but he can become better.

[Ben Simmons 25]

Curry
Durant
Harden
Giannis
Kawhi
Jokic? Really? Nah. LeBron isn't worse than Jokic, either. If he stayed with Cleveland and a team that fit him better in an easier conference, this wouldn't be a discussion.

Jokic definitely 100% is not top 5. Nope. He's not even top 6.

[elementally morale]

Curry
Durant
Harden
Giannis
Kawhi
Jokic? Really? Nah. LeBron isn't worse than Jokic, either. If he stayed with Cleveland and a team that fit him better in an easier conference, this wouldn't be a discussion.

Jokic definitely 100% is not top 5. Nope. He's not even top 6.


Individually he is not. But it's a team sport. Why is Lebron thought of as being better than Kobe? Individually? No. As a team player?

Jokic is the same in that regard. The dude just knows how to play. Top 4 or top 6 I don't really care. He just looks great. Doesn't even seem to care.. just jogs there... and it's 2 or 3 points or a great pass in a second or two.

[Ben Simmons 25]

Right, your contention is that Jokic has a top 5 NBA impact. Nah. He's somewhere in the top 10.

[stalkerforlife]

More wins.

Worse teammates.

Better conference.

Gee, I wonder.

[Doranku]

How are people going to say Embiid's stats are empty? They're 42-21 when he plays.. 7-9 when he doesn't.

Embiid deserves it. He's been the better individual player. Isn't that what the All-NBA team is supposed to signify?

[Smoke117]

How are people going to say Embiid's stats are empty? They're 42-21 when he plays.. 7-9 when he doesn't.

Embiid deserves it. He's been the better individual player. Isn't that what the All-NBA team is supposed to signify?

He's been the better player why? Because he puts up more ppg? All advanced stats point to Jokic being a higher impact player. Has a much higher bpm and vorp, more winshares, more winshares/48, and he leads all centers with a 6.08rpm (5th for entire league) to Embiid's 4.53. The Nuggets would be even worse off if Jokic wasn't out there than the Sixers have been without Embiid. I'd also be curious to know when most of these games took place as the Sixers have gone through so many different line ups with their trades.

[fourkicks44]

More wins.

Worse teammates.

Better conference.

Gee, I wonder.

Hmm the Sixers starting lineup is better but the bench is amongst the worse in the league.

Nuggets are super deep.

[Smoke117]

Hmm the Sixers starting lineup is better but the bench is amongst the worse in the league.

Nuggets are super deep.

The sixers have 3 players after Embiid who are better than the Nuggets 2nd best player.

[tpols]

Right, your contention is that Jokic has a top 5 NBA impact. Nah. He's somewhere in the top 10.


you dont understand teamwork.

just stats and he run fast.

[fourkicks44]

The nuggets have 3 players after Embiid who are better than the Nuggets 2nd best player.

Sixers you mean?

I don't dispute that but there seems to be a misconception that the Sixers are super stacked but beyond the starters they don't have much else.

It is the team's biggest weakness and people seem to overlook it.

[Smoke117]

Sixers you mean?

I don't dispute that but there seems to be a misconception that the Sixers are super stacked but beyond the starters they don't have much else.

It is the team's biggest weakness and people seem to overlook it.

Aw, yeah typo. What is your point, though? In the playoffs starters play much heavier mins than they do in the regular season. Depth means very little outside of the 82 game slog. Once it's playoff time the best players are going to be out there for 40 or more mins so the Sixers are much better off with their four all star or near all star players.

[NugzFan]

Hmm the Sixers starting lineup is better but the bench is amongst the worse in the league.

Nuggets are super deep.

Starters matter way more

There is no way you are winning this part of the debate. Embiids best chance is to focus only on his stats.

[fourkicks44]

Starters matter way more

There is no way you are winning this part of the debate. Embiids best chance is to focus only on his stats.

I actually don't thnk it is as relevant to the op argument as others.

I just want to clear the air that our bench is pretty trash :lol

Hopefully it will work out for them in the playoffs when starters matter more and the rotations get shorter.

[NugzFan]

I actually don't thnk it is as relevant to the op argument as others.

I just want to clear the air that our bench is pretty trash :lol

Hopefully it will work out for them in the playoffs when starters matter more and the rotations get shorter.

obviously it will. rotations shorten.

[RoseCity07]

I'd pick Jokic because he actually plays. Doesn't Embiid sit out half his games?

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

Joker.

Embiid's defense is very good but overrated at the same time.

People who roll w/ Joel pretend he's Rudy Gobert defensively. He isn't. Not by any objective measure. Jokic is the better offensive player and, while not "great", a solid defender for his position. Dude is like +2 in DRPM which is significant for an alleged "nonfactor" on defense.

[Smoke117]

Joker.

Embiid's defense is very good but overrated at the same time.

People who roll w/ Joel pretend he's Rudy Gobert defensively. He isn't. Not by any objective measure. Jokic is the better offensive player and, while not "great", a solid defender for his position. Dude is like +2 in DRPM which is significant for an alleged "nonfactor" on defense.

Finally a decent post from you. I knew you had it in you! :applause:

[SpaceJam2]

Wow

Currently 16 to 16 :eek:

[Im so nba'd out]

https://i.postimg.cc/Wp7Hh1Zs/Screenshot-2019-04-16-at-9-52-39-PM.png

https://media.giphy.com/media/p0RDMJGgMXF96/giphy.gif

[Doranku]

https://i.postimg.cc/Wp7Hh1Zs/Screenshot-2019-04-16-at-9-52-39-PM.png

https://media.giphy.com/media/p0RDMJGgMXF96/giphy.gif

Damn, it's no surprise that there are a LOT of low IQ posters there. :lol

kuniva, I'll give you the benefit of the doubt this time.

[AlternativeAcc.]

Embiid ****ing sucks

[RealSkipBayless]

https://i.postimg.cc/Wp7Hh1Zs/Screenshot-2019-04-16-at-9-52-39-PM.png

https://media.giphy.com/media/p0RDMJGgMXF96/giphy.gif

:cheers: :cheers:

[Mask the Embiid]

https://i.postimg.cc/fRMVk515/Luis-Scola.jpg



https://thumbs.gfycat.com/TenderShinyAfricangroundhornbill-size_restricted.gif
https://thumbs.gfycat.com/InsistentBronzeBlackpanther-size_restricted.gif

[KD7]

lol @ people saying EmChoke in this thread :D

He would shriveled under pressure against these Clippers

He's not built for high leverage moments like Jokic is

[NuggetsFan]

Given how Jokic's performed in the clutch, and how he's proven now that his play translates to the playoffs not sure we can pretend he's not a top 5 player. Even his defense. Yeah it can be ugly for stretches, but for the most part it's average/above. Just when it's bad .. it's very bad.

He's just ridiculous offensively. Can shoot from anywhere, make any pass a PG can make, and kill you inside.

[1_BAD_TIGER]

A lot of retards in this thread, Joker is the best center in the NBA

[NBAGOAT]

it was close last year. not really a debate this year with embiid missing 1/4 of the year and philly's team results.

[highwhey]

it was close last year. not really a debate this year with embiid missing 1/4 of the year and philly's team results.

doesn't matter. jokic has proven he's better than embiid.

[Hamtaro CP3KDKG]

it was close last year. not really a debate this year with embiid missing 1/4 of the year and philly's team results.

Wasnt close last year either

Jokic is far better in the playoffs

only AD is better among bigs

[Rudeboy3]

it was close last year. not really a debate this year with embiid missing 1/4 of the year and philly's team results.

except it wasn't close either, jokic has been elite in the playoffs twice now, embiid has been awfull

[NBAGOAT]

except it wasn't close either, jokic has been elite in the playoffs twice now, embiid has been awfull

all-nba's only the regular season. by that logic I guess bron and kawhi should've gotten more votes than giannis for mvp too

[Hamtaro CP3KDKG]

except it wasn't close either, jokic has been elite in the playoffs twice now, embiid has been awfull

Jokic or Giannis in the playoffs?

[Gray GOAT]

Damn, it's no surprise that there are a LOT of low IQ posters there. :lol

kuniva, I'll give you the benefit of the doubt this time.

Oof.

[fourkicks44]

Embiid actually shot better than Joker from 3 this season believe it or not.

[Hamtaro CP3KDKG]

Embiid actually shot better than Joker from 3 this season believe it or not.

What happened in the playoffs?

[1_BAD_TIGER]

What happened in the playoffs?

As always jokers game gets better in the playoffs.

[Hamtaro CP3KDKG]

As always jokers game gets better in the playoffs.

What did Embiid shoot from 3 in the playoffs?

Anyone knows?

[fourkicks44]

What happened in the playoffs?

Why don't you tell us.

Give us a run down of what happened during the playoffs as clearly none of us have been watching.

[tontoz]

In this year's playoff Jokic is taking 6 3s per game shooting 45%. Not sure if that includes tonight's game going 4-6. :bowdown:

[fourkicks44]

What did Embiid shoot from 3 in the playoffs?

Anyone knows?


His three point percentage went down considerably but for some crazy reason his points per game went considerably up.

Is that what you what you are trying to get at?

We all know what happend in the Sixers/Celtics series. Sure it was only 4 games but Embiid is still top three for points per game in these playoffs, while being less reliant on his perimeter shooting?

Am I correct?

[Axe]

Embiid also cries once he learns that it's time for him to go home.

I think he also did shed tears again after suffering a sweep from boston earlier.

[tontoz]

For the record Embiid missed 22 games this season, Jokic 0.

[NugzFan]

In this year's playoff Jokic is taking 6 3s per game shooting 45%. Not sure if that includes tonight's game going 4-6. :bowdown:

:cheers:

[AlternativeAcc.]

Embiid absolutely sucks.

Will be retired in less than 3 years