If you were on the Knicks coaching staff from 89-01 you might look like JVG too.

[Kblaze8855]

Stressful time. All that drama and in fighting....the...actual fighting.

Hes on the staff when Riley was flat out stolen by the Heat(given partial ownership and all kinds of now illegal things after months of tampering to set it up). He was there when Don Nelson was fired for trying to trade Ewing for Shaq like an intelligent person would do in 1996. He was there for alllllllllll the brawls. Not just the famous one where hes:


http://i63.tinypic.com/1zqt4bq.jpg















Or the infamous one with Greg Anthony running in in his street clothes to get some before being stomped out....




https://thumbs.gfycat.com/DefinitiveSpeedyGavial-size_restricted.gif















Or the one where Derek Harper tossed little known role player Jojo English like an NBA girlfriends birth control pills....





https://thumbs.gfycat.com/FrightenedAdoredGalapagoshawk-size_restricted.gif













He was on the floor for everything.

Always trying to keep the peace and failing. He was even caught in the cross fire and knocked out by his own player when lesser known adherent of the goon rules* Marcus Camby tried to conclude Danny Ferry:




https://thumbs.gfycat.com/ScholarlyUnlawfulHippopotamus-size_restricted.gif





Thats him in a heap on the ground being revived.




That franchise nearly killed him.



Thats how he ended up like this:

https://thumbs.gfycat.com/ShamelessGrandAmericanratsnake-size_restricted.gif




All that losing, fighting, and drama....bad for your sanity and your hairline. I still want him back in the league though. Id love to see how he adjusted to the high tempos after a career of slow down bully ball.

[Kblaze8855]

*
I go by them goon rules
If you can't beat 'em then you pop 'em
You can't man 'em then you mop 'em
You can't stand 'em then you drop 'em



I.e.:




https://thumbs.gfycat.com/LikelyFakeBream-size_restricted.gif







or









https://thumbs.gfycat.com/PitifulCraftyAmurminnow-size_restricted.gif

[HoopologyPhD]

As much as I dislike Van Gundy, Mike Breen and Mark Jackson as individuals, they are a great team that has legitimate chemistry.

I will typically get at least a few chuckles out of Van Gundy watching a game.

[Kblaze8855]

It is funny at times when he goes off script and just bashes people for 2-3 minutes while Breen attempts to lead him back to the game being played.

[SpaceJam2]

Thats him in a heap on the ground being revived.




That franchise nearly killed him.



Thats how he ended up like this:

https://thumbs.gfycat.com/ShamelessGrandAmericanratsnake-size_restricted.gif


:lol :lol :lol

[SpaceJam2]

*
I go by them goon rules
If you can't beat 'em then you pop 'em
You can't man 'em then you mop 'em
You can't stand 'em then you drop 'em



I.e.:




https://thumbs.gfycat.com/LikelyFakeBream-size_restricted.gif







or









https://thumbs.gfycat.com/PitifulCraftyAmurminnow-size_restricted.gif

http://assets.sbnation.com/assets/607658/Bynum_Foul.gif

[Kblaze8855]

Yea Bynum clearly set the modern Goon rules standard there. Down like 40 end of your playoff run and you wipe out a 5'8'' midget who has been killing you then rip off your jersey and walk out? Real "After the fist fight its gunfire boy if you get the best of me" shit there.

[AirFederer]

He

[SpaceJam2]

Yea Bynum clearly set the modern Goon rules standard there. Down like 40 end of your playoff run and you wipe out a 5'8'' midget who has been killing you then rip off your jersey and walk out? Real "After the fist fight its gunfire boy if you get the best of me" shit there.

Yep that was some terrible shit he did. Frustration goon move, too.

[Smoke117]

JVG holding on for dear life to ZO's leg will forever be the funniest NBA moment.

[ClipperRevival]

Anyone going to deny that those Knicks were the 2nd most physical team ever outside of the Bad Boy Pistons? So many straight dogs on those teams. Oakley, McDaniel, Mason, Ewing, Starks, Anthony, Harper etc. This just right off the dome. There were more. Just pure physicality. Where you had to be a man to play the game because that hard foul was coming. Real bball.

[sammichoffate]

Anyone going to deny that those Knicks were the 2nd most physical team ever outside of the Bad Boy Pistons? So many straight dogs on those teams. Oakley, McDaniel, Mason, Ewing, Starks, Anthony, Harper etc. This just right off the dome. There were more. Just pure physicality. Where you had to be a man to play the game because that hard foul was coming. Real bball.90's Bulls and Bird Celtics were p physical, maybe the 90's Pacers.

[ClipperRevival]

90's Bulls and Bird Celtics were p physical, maybe the 90's Pacers.

MJ's Bulls were not a physical team. They were an athletic team. 80's Celtics for sure but i don't know if they were on the Knicks level because they had the superior talent to not have to get down to that level like the Knicks. Although they definitely took it there when they had too.

Pacers yeah, but not on Knicks level. Mid to late 90's Heat were also very physical.

[DCL]

JVG could only play the subway ghost in patrick swayze's "GHOST"

https://thumbs.gfycat.com/QuerulousSmoggyJackrabbit-small.gif



...while his brother SVG was getting roles to hump pornstars

http://oi63.tinypic.com/2gule0h.jpg

[Kblaze8855]

Anyone going to deny that those Knicks were the 2nd most physical team ever outside of the Bad Boy Pistons? So many straight dogs on those teams. Oakley, McDaniel, Mason, Ewing, Starks, Anthony, Harper etc. This just right off the dome. There were more. Just pure physicality. Where you had to be a man to play the game because that hard foul was coming. Real bball.


I think there were teams about as physical...the 90s Heat for one....but not many were as willing to outright fight.

The Knicks had people who wouldnt shove and then wait for everyone to get between them to pretend they wanted to really go. They would just fight.

Thats one thing ive always hated...the people who pretend to be ready to fight but dont get hype till 12 people are between them. If you have a problem hit him in the face. Chris Childs style(a knick you forgot). Just punch him in the face. Whats that shove about? Just get to it. They couldnt have someone like me making the rules. Id be in the stands sitting back like dude from Godzilla.....





https://thumbs.gfycat.com/ThreadbareVeneratedCorydorascatfish-small.gif



Fines coming. Suspensions. Whatever. But you arent gonna be on that soft Carmelo shit tapping then running away as it gets broken up:






https://thumbs.gfycat.com/SadSpicyAlbacoretuna-size_restricted.gif



Id love to see what happens when one of these guys pulls that and everyone just backs away and lets them go. Half these guys would cool down real quick.

[eliteballer]

You didn

[NuggetsFan]

Anyone going to deny that those Knicks were the 2nd most physical team ever outside of the Bad Boy Pistons? So many straight dogs on those teams. Oakley, McDaniel, Mason, Ewing, Starks, Anthony, Harper etc. This just right off the dome. There were more. Just pure physicality. Where you had to be a man to play the game because that hard foul was coming. Real bball.

Am I the only one who hates physical basketball? Basketball is such a finesse sport. Even teams that were crazy physical like the Knicks and would bully teams .. look soft in comparison to other contact sports. Hard fouls are routine plays in contact sports, yet in basketball it's made a huge deal :lol

Think it has to do with how big NBA players are/how athletic they are and yet how soft the outcomes usually are. Outside of some sucker punches, and a handful of fights, the outcome usually looks pretty weak. Like Melo smashing some dude and him getting right up, or Jermaine O'Neal taking a running start at some fan and the fan not dying :oldlol:

I guess because I like alot of sports, I don't watch basketball for those reasons. Like early in MJ's career when guys would just mug him. I want to see Jordan's ability, not some scrub just shove him. Later on when he got some freedom was alot better to watch IMO.

[Kblaze8855]

Its different to me. Id like to see it hard on the stars so I have something to be amazed by.

Making it easier just makes what I see less impressive. ITs not impressive that some scrub can knock around a star. Its impressive that the star being knocked around still manages to go hard and put on a show.

The all star games can have all the amazing plays in the world....and boring...because nobody tries to stop you from making them.

The harder the defense tries to stop you the more impressive it is to pull things off. And when they can:


https://thumbs.gfycat.com/HilariousLameCleanerwrasse-small.gif




https://thumbs.gfycat.com/DenseBelovedAnt-small.gif







It feels more impressive when you:






https://thumbs.gfycat.com/AnguishedAngryAddax-size_restricted.gif


In response.



The physical element makes going off just....more impressive to watch.

[NuggetsFan]

Yeah it's subjective and at the end of the day it's just an entertainment thing. Like there's players who were much better than Iverson, but I'd rather watch Iverson play over some of them.

For me I guess just as a NFL/NHL fan I'd rather see what IMO is the greatest athletes in the world show there skill. I'm not saying I want zero physical play. Just the shoving/fake posturing looks silly when you compare it to other sports. IMO basketball has always been closer to a sports like soccer/baseball than it has football/hockey/lacrosse/rugby etc.

I think when Jordan/Phil/Pippen and the Bulls went to the league about the Pistons it was great for basketball moving forward. Things have been re-written since but I remember all of them saying how they were bad for basketball and IMO it had alot to do with how the league was shaped going forward as Chicago went on to dominate the league and the popularity skyrocketed.

I like good defense, and don't mind some physicality, but reminds me of a pickup game when guys just hard foul/clutch and grab/take contesting over the line. Like when the 1 guy who shows up and is better than everybody and nobody can contain him so they resort to chippy play because they can't hang.

[NuggetsFan]

Some of the GIF's you pointed I guess would be my example. It's not even that "physical" really. Just bogs the game down. In other sports huge hits and physical play can be just as entertaining as scoring. Just like in basketball good defense is just as entertaining as offense at times. Guy's just bumping into eachother, or reaching and grabbing a jersey, or whacking a guy's hand isn't entertaining to watch. Especially when in the end it leads to a guy sitting at the FT line taking two shots.

Rather just watch an incredible athlete display his skill, than another great athlete heavily contest it and challenge it.

Physical play while playing with friends is fun but watching that shit on TV? Eh. So many great physical sports, I wanna see skill/finesse/athleticism from basketball.

[Kblaze8855]

I wouldnt care that much minus the human need to compare.

You dont even know what youre seeing....

You know 38 points in an all star game arent 38 points in the regular season. But when one league holds teams to 89 points on 41% shooting and another lets you score 140 in regulation often enough that it isnt news...

How do you even judge the people?

You have to look at it as a self contained league and enjoy it for what it is...but people wont do that. We make all time comparisons between people with vaaaaaaaaaaaastly different obstacles to playing well.

Generally...the harder it is for you to play well...im more impressed you are able to do it. And the physical aspect makes it harder.

[FKAri]

Yeah it's subjective and at the end of the day it's just an entertainment thing. Like there's players who were much better than Iverson, but I'd rather watch Iverson play over some of them.

For me I guess just as a NFL/NHL fan I'd rather see what IMO is the greatest athletes in the world show there skill. I'm not saying I want zero physical play. Just the shoving/fake posturing looks silly when you compare it to other sports. IMO basketball has always been closer to a sports like soccer/baseball than it has football/hockey/lacrosse/rugby etc.

I think when Jordan/Phil/Pippen and the Bulls went to the league about the Pistons it was great for basketball moving forward. Things have been re-written since but I remember all of them saying how they were bad for basketball and IMO it had alot to do with how the league was shaped going forward as Chicago went on to dominate the league and the popularity skyrocketed.

I like good defense, and don't mind some physicality, but reminds me of a pickup game when guys just hard foul/clutch and grab/take contesting over the line. Like when the 1 guy who shows up and is better than everybody and nobody can contain him so they resort to chippy play because they can't hang.

I don't like the lack of physicality on the perimeter. Removing hand checking has made the face up game trivial. I'm glad the enforcer position is all but gone. I also like the implementation of flagrant fouls. Fouling for the sake of hurting somebody isn't basketball.

A necessary amount of physicality should be incorporated into the game though and I don't think it is. The rules aren't clear on it. It's up to the ref's "judgement". And enter all the acting and ref manipulation by players and coaches. Every game has fans complaining about one call or another. I also never liked the philosophy of, "I guess my man beat me so I'm going to send him to the line". It's idiotic. If the rules could make that line of reasoning less attractive it'd be better. But again this is all too hard to implement as things stand. Ideally I'd want basketball to be played with as little fouls called as possible.

[NuggetsFan]

I wouldnt care that much minus the human need to compare.

You dont even know what youre seeing....

You know 38 points in an all star game arent 38 points in the regular season. But when one league holds teams to 89 points on 41% shooting and another lets you score 140 in regulation often enough that it isnt news...

How do you even judge the people?

You have to look at it as a self contained league and enjoy it for what it is...but people wont do that. We make all time comparisons between people with vaaaaaaaaaaaastly different obstacles to playing well.

Generally...the harder it is for you to play well...im more impressed you are able to do it. And the physical aspect makes it harder.

I agree with comparing. Wasn't supposed to be today vs yesterday kinda thing. I don't think you can do that really.

Your numbers are way more drastic tho. That's a hyperbole. For example the league average is 111 points this season on 46% shooting which is the highest it's been forever. In '87-88 it was like 108 points on 48% shooting. The 3 point shooting obviously drags down today's FG% and without it it'd be alot higher .. but it's nowhere near as drastic as your making it out to be. You could also toss in they shot 29 FT's per game vs 23 this year. Less physical play, means less FT's which IMO is by far the most boring aspect of basketball.

Players also have different skillsets. Some players benefit more from it. For some players being allowed to bully eachother on both ends suit there games, just like someone like Curry benefits from a finesse game. They'd be It's the same thing with defense. It's easy to just be a goon on defense, it takes skill and tons of finesse to actually defend at a high level without mauling guys. I'd rather see that high skill than some 6'11 dude just acting like a goon in a sport like basketball.

[SpaceJam2]

Generally...the harder it is for you to play well...im more impressed you are able to do it

One could easily argue that the talent pool is far deeper now in today's era with even more scouting Internationally and athletes becoming more athletic slowly but surely with better knowledge/diet/weight training, etc.

[eliteballer]

Some of the GIF's you pointed I guess would be my example. It's not even that "physical" really. Just bogs the game down. In other sports huge hits and physical play can be just as entertaining as scoring. Just like in basketball good defense is just as entertaining as offense at times. Guy's just bumping into eachother, or reaching and grabbing a jersey, or whacking a guy's hand isn't entertaining to watch. Especially when in the end it leads to a guy sitting at the FT line taking two shots.

Rather just watch an incredible athlete display his skill, than another great athlete heavily contest it and challenge it.

Physical play while playing with friends is fun but watching that shit on TV? Eh. So many great physical sports, I wa
nna see skill/finesse/athleticism from basketball.

More physical basketball requires more skill.

You need to know how to leverage angles, footwork, your body etc. better.

Just being able to walk to the basket doesn't take skill.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4wLW2UwkcG4

The game's more exciting when getting a bucket actually means something.

It's like having a homerun on every play.

Now there is an extreme. Those Knicks/Heat series of the late 90's or Pacers/Pistons in 2004 is too much.

[Kblaze8855]

Its JVG time. At least 4 but probably 6 or 7 games of shit talking and rants. I predict hes talking about Dell curry by the second quarter of game 1.

[Mr Feeny]

Anyone going to deny that those Knicks were the 2nd most physical team ever outside of the Bad Boy Pistons? So many straight dogs on those teams. Oakley, McDaniel, Mason, Ewing, Starks, Anthony, Harper etc. This just right off the dome. There were more. Just pure physicality. Where you had to be a man to play the game because that hard foul was coming. Real bball.

At times, they were thugs in my opinion. McDaniels in game 7 know 92 with the elbows that brought Grant to his knees, whincing in pain. Stark literally scratching Jordan as he hand checked him in 93. Ewing being Ewing.

There's thought basketball and the Knicks were really tough. But there's a line you shouldn't cross in sports, in my opinion. And they - while not as bad as the Pistons - came dangerously close to crossing the line a few times.

[tontoz]

I remember once Rodman literally throwing Pippen into the stands in the playoffs. Very different era.

[Mr Feeny]

I remember once Rodman literally throwing Pippen into the stands in the playoffs. Very different era.

Yeah he blatantly shoved up to the floor. Not even a play on the basketball. And I think Scottie held a grudge years later. Even when Rodman joined the Bulls,Scottie apparently didnt speak to him.

[Kblaze8855]

https://youtube.com/shorts/775HzLi2Ot8?feature=share



He was also hit in the face by a ref.

Now he’s been done in by Disney.

I swear he’s like Gil from the Simpsons.

[Carbine]

Did the Ref know he didn't even hit him that hard? Dude walked away like it was just a brush by.

Meanwhile Van Gundy is sitting on the ground dazed and confused

[1987_Lakers]

https://youtube.com/shorts/775HzLi2Ot8?feature=share



He was also hit in the face by a ref.

Now he’s been done in by Disney.

I swear he’s like Gil from the Simpsons.

True story, Gil from The Simpsons was based off this old guy.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=svPi1T_AzHg