Wade or Dirk all time?

[stalkerforlife]

Since both guys are retiring, I think it's fitting they face off in the GOAT debate.

[red1]

this is more comparable then pierce and wade.


I'll take my guy dwade.

[SouBeachTalents]

Imo Dirks 15-20, Wades 20-25

[STATUTORY]

Dirk cemented it in 2011

[lilteapot]

Wade but I like Dirk more personally.

[atljonesbro]

Wade was one of the 3 best players in basketball for his entire prime. Got robbed of an MVP and is a 3 time champion. 06 was a legendary finals. I got wade

[BigKobeFan]

Wade without a question.

Dirk was mediocre in 2011, it was just a massive choke job

[SouBeachTalents]

Wade was one of the 3 best players in basketball for his entire prime. Got robbed of an MVP and is a 3 time champion. 06 was a legendary finals. I got wade
Wade was never robbed of MVP. He absolutely played at an MVP level in

[dbugz]

Dirk not even close.

[FireDavidKahn]

Give me Wade. Both amazing players but wing players are always more important than big men. This has NOTHING to do with Dirk's abilities (he is ****ing amazing) but just the position he plays.

[FireDavidKahn]

Wade was one of the 3 best players in basketball for his entire prime. Got robbed of an MVP and is a 3 time champion. 06 was a legendary finals. I got wade
Wade's 08-09 was arguably one of the best seasons ever for a 2 guard.

[72-10]

it's hard to say either are top 20 all-time

statistical comparison
Since they played comparable minutes per game, I just ignored that.

Wade
22.0 points/4.7 rebounds/5.4 assists/1.5 steals/.8 blocked shots/3.2 turnovers on 48% shooting from the field, 29% shooting from three, 76.5% shooting from the free throw line/23.5 PER

23,140 points/4,922 rebounds/5,691 assists/1,620 steals/884 blocked shots/3,323 turnovers/121 Win Shares

Dirk
20.7 points/7.5 rebounds/2.4 assists/.8 steals/.8 blocked shots/1.6 turnovers on 47% shooting from the field, 38% from three, 88% shooting from the free throw line/22.4 PER

31,540 points/11,479 rebounds/3,650 assists/1,209 steals/1,281 blocked shots/2,494 turnovers/206 Win Shares

game comparison
One might be quick to say Wade had more skill, but it's not by much. Wade couldn't shoot well from distance. Wade wasn't automatic from the foul line like Dirk. Wade couldn't shoot the three. Wade turned the ball over a lot more frequently than Dirk did. Dirk's shooting efficiency and turnover rate helped his team win a lot more games, which is probably why his Win Shares is so astronomical.

Looks like it's Dirk by a nose.

[Real14]

Dirk earned his ring in 2011.

[iamgine]

I've always thought prime Dirk > prime Wade.

[Phoenix]

Honestly I feel like they're in the same ballpark. It's Wade's higher peak versus Dirk's sustained excellence over a longer period. They broke even in the finals. Dirk has an MVP, granted Wade was clearly an MVP level player at his peak. Dirk was kind of the '3rd wheel' behind Duncan and Garnett in the same way that Wade was behind Kobe and Lebron. He was always 'the third guy' perceptually but Wade was as good as anyone( when healthy) between 2006 and 2011. I don't know if you could say that about Dirk even at his best. Though I feel like Dirk doesn't get nearly the credit he should for how steady a pillar he was for Dallas over a 15 year period. The team underwent various roster changes and a few head coaches, but the Mavs were always somewhere in the thick of things, right near the top in terms of team offensive rankings and a perennial 50/60+ win team. And he was the common denominator through it all.

So really....I have no idea. I feel like they're somewhere in that 18-22 range, right after guys like Mailman, Barkley, Garnett, Admiral. Rank them however you want, I don't think I'd strongly argue against one way or the other.

[AirFederer]

Love em both, can

[tpols]

I've always thought prime Dirk > prime Wade.


On the surface they seem similar, but then you have to wonder how Dirk took teams of josh howard and marquis daniels through brutal west coast gauntlets to 60+ wins and countless playoff victories...and an eventual ultra ring. When wade had similar help hed win 40 games and get bounced in the first round, even with personal circus stats, never could elevate a team offense by himself. It was aau ball.

Dirk in general has the impact of a top 10 GOAT he's just so low key that casuals don't take notice.

[72-10]

[QUOTE=AirFederer]Love em both, can

[superduper]

Yeah honestly it's hard to choose. Good thread. They're both incredibly close in terms of all time ranking but I think I'm going to go with Wade.

Wade's peak was something else to behold on both ends of the floor. Dude was scoring at absolute will while being the rim protector for his team from the 2 guard position. The things he was capable of doing with the combination of his skillset and his freakish athleticism were almost unbelievable. Dude was schooling people of all sizes, his peak was truly something else to watch.

Dirk's entire playoff run in 2011 was one of the best in history however, from an individual standpoint. Dude led some mediocre rosters to impressive records in the much harder conference. I think when it comes down to it, it is harder to build a team around Dirk, simply because he's a scoring 7 footer who was average at best on the defensive end. He had one of the most unique skillsets in history for his size but his weaknesses were also quite glaring.

I wonder which of the two people consider a better leader?

[ronniec]

It is just a matter of choice, whom you like more.

[stalkerforlife]

it's hard to say either are top 20 all-time

statistical comparison
Since they played comparable minutes per game, I just ignored that.

Wade
22.0 points/4.7 rebounds/5.4 assists/1.5 steals/.8 blocked shots/3.2 turnovers on 48% shooting from the field, 29% shooting from three, 76.5% shooting from the free throw line/23.5 PER

23,140 points/4,922 rebounds/5,691 assists/1,620 steals/884 blocked shots/3,323 turnovers/121 Win Shares

Dirk
20.7 points/7.5 rebounds/2.4 assists/.8 steals/.8 blocked shots/1.6 turnovers on 47% shooting from the field, 38% from three, 88% shooting from the free throw line/22.4 PER

31,540 points/11,479 rebounds/3,650 assists/1,209 steals/1,281 blocked shots/2,494 turnovers/206 Win Shares

game comparison
One might be quick to say Wade had more skill, but it's not by much. Wade couldn't shoot well from distance. Wade wasn't automatic from the foul line like Dirk. Wade couldn't shoot the three. Wade turned the ball over a lot more frequently than Dirk did. Dirk's shooting efficiency and turnover rate helped his team win a lot more games, which is probably why his Win Shares is so astronomical.

Looks like it's Dirk by a nose.

You also have to consider Dirk goes up to 25 and 10 in the playoffs and led Dallas to 11 consecutive seasons of 50+ wins in the West; thats the third longest streak behind Duncan's Spurs and Magic's Lakers, both of whom had more help than Dirk.

This is an easy decision for me.

Dirk is clearly the more respected and better man on and off the court.

[4pointshot]

https://sports.yahoo.com/whose-nba-career-was-better-dwyane-wade-vs-dirk-nowitzki-145434154.html

Prime numbers: Dirk
Career high: Dirk
Clutch: Dwayne
Hardware: Dirk
Culture: Dirk


As far as impact on the game goes, Wade is unquestionably one of the five greatest two guards in NBA history and might rank as high as third on the list behind Michael Jordan and Kobe, depending on where you have Jerry West and how high James Harden climbs in the coming years. Aside from the faulty math, the “fall seven times, stand up eight” Nike commercial that ran in the early portion of his career best captured Wade — a fearless and relentless competitor.

Yet, as his farewell tour makes its final stops, Wade will probably be best remembered outside Miami as the man who ceded his alpha status to LeBron on a superteam that altered the NBA landscape forever, fair or not. For better or worse, his recruitment of James and Chris Bosh changed the way teams are built, and his partnership with James will endure above all else.

Nowitzki, meanwhile, is equally beloved in Dallas, where he spent his entire career pursuing greatness as rosters were more traditionally constructed, torn down and rebuilt around him.

Like Wade, Nowitzki is one of the five best players ever to field his position. You could argue him all the way up to second behind Tim Duncan, but Karl Malone, Kevin Garnett and Charles Barkley might all beg to differ. Nowitzki is, more plainly, the best-shooting big man the game has ever produced — an evolution that birthed the stretch-big movement — and his one-legged fadeaway is among the most unstoppable moves in NBA history. Its timelessness over two decades is one of the few things that could outlast Wade’s endless pursuit of the rim.

While Nowitzki has yet to concede that this is his final season, everyone around him is acting as if it is. Regardless, his 21 seasons on the Mavericks are already the most by anyone on a single team, which would be a fine legacy on its own, but there is also this: Nowitzki is undoubtedly the greatest European player in history and arguably the best foreign-born player ever. (Hakeem Olajuwon might have something to say about that). Nowitzki’s career has changed the way the NBA evaluates Euros and served as an inspiration to a generation of imports, from Giannis Antetokounmpo to Luka Doncic. The game is more global than ever in part because of him.

Conclusion: Dirk

[atljonesbro]

Are there really people who think Dirk had a higher peak than Wade? :roll: :roll: prime wade was a top 5 scorer and all defensive player

[Big164]

Give Dirk Shaq and Lebron, see how.

[NBASTATMAN]

IN their primes , easily Wade..

[JohnnySic]

This is like Barkley/Malone.

One had the higher peak (Barkley/Wade), the other had a better career (Malone/Dirk). There's no wrong answer.

[Rocket]

I would have to vote for Dirk. Wade was always overrated.

[Smoke117]

Probably Dirk because he was much healthier throughout his career so has the longevity, but Wade was clearly the better player in their prime and peaks.

[nashwade]

This is like Barkley/Malone.

One had the higher peak (Barkley/Wade), the other had a better career (Malone/Dirk). There's no wrong answer.

best answer

[3ball]

Dirk, and by a bigger margin than pierce obviously, where it's more debateable

[1987_Lakers]

Career: Dirk
Prime: Wade

[brownmamba00]

Wade easily. Dirk is being overrated on here just cause he bukkaked lebron in '11.

[baudkarma]

Dirk redefined his position. "Stretch four" is an accepted position now. Before he joined the league, power forwards were expected to play in the paint, block shots, play interior defense. These days, if a PF plays outside and puts up a 3, nobody bats an eye.

Wade was a great player, but he didn't change the game. Dirk did.

[AussieSteve]

Wade without a question.

Dirk was mediocre in 2011, it was just a massive choke job

This.

Dirk's 2011 finals were not great by any standard. Granted he hit some big time clutch shots, but most of the games should have been blow outs one way or another if either

a. LeBron played half as well as he should have, or

b. Dirk shot better than 35% in quarters 1-3 For the series.

Wade >>

[AussieSteve]

Dirk redefined his position. "Stretch four" is an accepted position now. Before he joined the league, power forwards were expected to play in the paint, block shots, play interior defense. These days, if a PF plays outside and puts up a 3, nobody bats an eye.

Wade was a great player, but he didn't change the game. Dirk did.

Dirk didn't do this. The game has evolved. Everyone shoots 3s now. Dirk is not the catalyst for this.

[Phoenix]

Very rarely do online presentations convince me to alter an opinion, but I thought more about this and I was slightly leaning Wade till I read 4pointshot's post. I think that makes a compelling case for Dirk. Really I think what makes the best case for him is how the Mavs were reconstructed every half decade but never really dropped off though Dirk's prime. He always held that team together, and in the gauntlet that was the 2000's west. And while he was certainly not the first great foreign NBA player, he could credibly be seen as the Godfather of the Euro wave that's hit the NBA over the last 20 years. It's only fitting that someone like Luka ended up on his team as the apparent successor both team-wise and in terms of potentially the next highly visible Euro NBA star( potentially being the key operative).

Wade's one of my all-time favorites( so is Dirk for that matter, but he's lower down the list) but I'm leaning #41 right. And I mean that in a 'if Dirk is the #19 ranked player all-time, Wade is #21' way. I really do feel like they're in the vicinity of one another regardless of who ranks ahead.

[SouBeachTalents]

Dirk, and by a bigger margin than pierce obviously, where it's more debateable
:roll: Literally no argument for Pierce being ranked over Wade all time, he's at minimum 25 spots lower

[Dr Hawk]

Peak: Wade
Prime/career: Dirk

[bobopenguin]

Dirk for being a humble, decent, loyal man.
Dirk doesnt hop between teams.

[SouBeachTalents]

Dirk for being a humble, decent, loyal man.
Dirk doesnt hop between teams.
Joining a 42 win Bulls team at 35 is considered team hopping now :oldlol:

[bobopenguin]

Joining a 42 win Bulls team at 35 is considered team hopping now :oldlol:

then he went to play with his friend.

then he was like, "naaaa, this aint fun, another team it is!"

[plowking]

Wade was a better player during his peak and prime.

He also won more.

I'm confused as to how Dirk had the clear cut better career?
Wade was also a better finals performer.

[Haymaker]

Peak Wade was more impressive than peak Dirk BUT....Dirk's 2011 is very hard to beat by anybody. One of the most impressive Playoffs and Finals runs in the history of sports, period. I'll say Dirk, but it's a very close race.

[stalkerforlife]

Wade was a better player during his peak and prime.

He also won more.

I'm confused as to how Dirk had the clear cut better career?
Wade was also a better finals performer.

LMAO @ Wade winning more as if it matters with those super teams.

What a joke.

And the 2006 finals were obviously fixed; Dirk was mauled all series and Wade was the league's attempt at the next big thing.

Wade's finals were virtually meaningless.

Dirk won 50+ games 11 straight years in the West and his playoff numbers went up to 25 and 10.

[Jacques Webster]

Its actually kinda tough. Both had a decent longevity. D Wade dealt with more injuries. Dirk choked in the 2007 playoffs. D Wade had awful knees in his last Finals runs.

I'm giving it to Wade 52-48.

[SpaceJam2]

Who lost as a 1seed to an 8 seed (besides Duncan)? Anyone else we know????

Dirk fans, DONT Google 2007

[Phoenix]

Who lost as a 1seed to an 8 seed (besides Duncan)? Anyone else we know????

Dirk fans, DONT Google 2007

http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lmkjpwbjh01qh9wcto1_500.jpg

[AussieSteve]

http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lmkjpwbjh01qh9wcto1_500.jpg

Dirks 2011 finals are so overrated on the back of his 4th qtr numbers it's insane.

In quarters 1-3 of the four games they won, he shot 22 / 62 from the floor (35%) and 2 /8 from 3pt (25%).

All in all in the first three quarters of those four wins, he averaged 14.5pts on an abysmal 37%efg and 43%ts.

When your star player, whose ONLY discernable skill is scoring (he was not a great rebounder, defender or playmaker) plays that poorly through three quarters in a finals, 95% of opponents would have blown them out before they even got to the 4th.

[Big164]

http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lmkjpwbjh01qh9wcto1_500.jpg
Embarassing

[DMAVS41]

Dirks 2011 finals are so overrated on the back of his 4th qtr numbers it's insane.

In quarters 1-3 of the four games they won, he shot 22 / 62 from the floor (35%) and 2 /8 from 3pt (25%).

All in all in the first three quarters of those four wins, he averaged 14.5pts on an abysmal 37%efg and 43%ts.

When your star player, whose ONLY discernable skill is scoring (he was not a great rebounder, defender or playmaker) plays that poorly through three quarters in a finals, 95% of opponents would have blown them out before they even got to the 4th.

This is such a narrow view and gives no analysis at all to how the Heat defended Dirk and the Mavs that series...while also not mentioning he was sick for one of the games.

And, of course, you play 4 qtrs...and Dirk put up 26/10/2

You really think his efficiency and play doesn't pop if the Heat guard him the way the Thunder did?

The Heat bet that Terry / Kidd / Barea / Stevenson wouldn't consistently hit well enough from 3 to win the series if they took away some things from Dirk.

And, luckily for the Mavs, they were wrong...and the games stayed close...and then Dirk / Terry destroyed them in crunch time throughout the series.

[RRR3]

Embarassing
Coming from a Curry/Wilt fan without a hint of irony.



Yikes.

[Gougou]

Prime Wade is just one hell of a player.


Dirk is elite too tho.

[Jon Salley's 10]

Wade but i phucks with Dirk also

[PickernRoller]

Not surprised to see the picks. Wade's stock dropped quite a lot after the collusion and the injuries that plagued him subsequently.

Reflected in the voting.

[brooks_thompson]

Not surprised to see the picks. Wade's stock dropped quite a lot after the collusion and the injuries that plagued him subsequently.

Reflected in the voting.

That and he wasn't as good as he used to be. He was really only Wade from 05-10, and even then he had a couple of injury plagued seasons in there, and another playoff run in 05 with Shaq when he got injured against the Pistons.

Dirk by the way wins easily. I will concede Wade may have had a better peak.

[aj1987]

LMAO @ Wade winning more as if it matters with those super teams.

What a joke.

And the 2006 finals were obviously fixed; Dirk was mauled all series and Wade was the league's attempt at the next big thing.

Wade's finals were virtually meaningless.

Dirk won 50+ games 11 straight years in the West and his playoff numbers went up to 25 and 10.
Dirk lost as the #1 seed and the MVP to the #8 seed.

Dirk got more FT's during those PO's than Wade did.

Dirk was more protected by the refs than any guard (not named Harden). Lets not act like he wasn't.

The only reason why Dirk even has a ring is because of LeBron's GOAT level choke. Otherwise, he'd be ranked with the liked of Ray Allen and Alex English.

Wade was better during his prime and peak, you smelly crater faced fat racist ****.

[Cold soul]

Peak: Wade
Prime/career: Dirk

Both are ranked right by each other as all-time greats go. You can make a great case for either one of them being ranked above each other.