#FeelTheBern Releases Medicare for All Plan

[SomeBlackDude]

News: @BernieSanders introduces his Medicare For All Act of 2019, cosponsored by 14 Senate Democrats including Booker, Gillibrand, Harris and Warren.

link to full 100 page bill (pdf download) (https://t.co/yf9y8K1uG1)

boiled down:

https://i.postimg.cc/ry3PY0Kg/D3z-PLt-JV4-AE4-VUT.jpg

bern has lost a fair amount of street cred recently. turns out he became the one thing he most hated.


Senator Bernie Sanders said Tuesday that he would release 10 years of tax returns before Tax Day on Monday and acknowledged that he has joined the ranks of the millionaires he has denounced for years


“I wrote a best-selling book,” Sanders told the Times. “If you write a best-selling book, you can be a millionaire, too.”


https://memegenerator.net/img/instances/400x/75797013.jpg

[highwhey]

great, by the time this has any serious traction it will be a shell of itself with heavy alterations and impose a financial penalty for those who opt out of coverage. fantastic!

[Rocket]

Oh yes, feel the Bern!!! Bernie and his everything is free and someone else is going to pay for it crap. :facepalm

Bernie would have no issues with bankrupting this country.

[SomeBlackDude]

and someone else is going to pay for it crap.

page 13, section 23, paragraph 2 in the plan clearly states mexico is gonna pay for it all.

[Akrazotile]

California needs to do this first and prove it works (:lol)


Once they show us how it’s done (:lol) we can adopt a federal plan modeled after their system.


Your move, Cali.

[Hawker]

link to full 100 page bill (pdf download) (https://t.co/yf9y8K1uG1)

boiled down:

https://i.postimg.cc/ry3PY0Kg/D3z-PLt-JV4-AE4-VUT.jpg

bern has lost a fair amount of street cred recently. turns out he became the one thing he most hated.






https://memegenerator.net/img/instances/400x/75797013.jpg

He

[AirBonner]

This is going to be an absolute failure if a state like California tries it :lol

[tpols]

Still waiting on the GOP plan... Maybe we can have sort of a gameshow gofundme tournament to determine allocation and membership. Should be fun!

[tpols]

Btw...this is already how it is in every first world country. No other examples of success.

[SomeBlackDude]

California needs to do this first and prove it works (:lol)


Once they show us how it’s done (:lol) we can adopt a federal plan modeled after their system.


Your move, Cali.

not a turrible idea.

they did the original dry run of kenyacare in mass. back when it was called romneycare.

then they took it national.



Still waiting on the GOP plan... Maybe we can have sort of a gameshow gofundme tournament to determine allocation and membership. Should be fun!


the emperor went on record that he has the best people working on the still secret gop plan that was promised 3 years ago (or going back to '09ish really).

says it won't be unveiled until after the next election.


"The Republicans are developing a really great HealthCare Plan with far lower premiums (cost) & deductibles than ObamaCare. In other words it will be far less expensive & much more usable than ObamaCare. Vote will be taken right after the Election when Republicans hold the Senate & win back the House. It will be truly great HealthCare that will work for America," Trump declared in a series of tweets. "Also, Republicans will always support Pre-Existing Conditions. The Republican Party will be known as the Party of Great HealtCare. Meantime, the USA is doing better than ever & is respected again!"

can't wait. :rockon:

https://thumbs.gfycat.com/GrimGracefulGonolek-size_restricted.gif

[Akrazotile]

Still waiting on the GOP plan... Maybe we can have sort of a gameshow gofundme tournament to determine allocation and membership. Should be fun!


With open borders and lax immigration, it’s an entirely moot issue. It will be a catastrophic economic disaster if we open up free healthcare to anyone who manages to get their feet on the soil.

Get on your reps about immigration first if you want social healthcare next.

[Rocket]

page 13, section 23, paragraph 2 in the plan clearly states mexico is gonna pay for it all.
:applause: :roll:

[NumberSix]

California needs to do this first and prove it works (:lol)


Once they show us how it’s done (:lol) we can adopt a federal plan modeled after their system.


Your move, Cali.
Cali voters actually already voted for it. The Cali legislature, despite having a Democrat supermajority, hilariously veto’d It.

[tpols]

With open borders and lax immigration, it’s an entirely moot issue. It will be a catastrophic economic disaster if we open up free healthcare to anyone who manages to get their feet on the soil.

Get on your reps about immigration first if you want social healthcare next.


Its already free for them mate. Medicaid... They're all on it and its the same thing.

All this would do is cut out insurance middle men who are currently bogging down the system tremendously, and give path to better negotiating power with pharmaceutical companies. Medicare negotiates downward waaay more than private insurance providers do.

[red1]

In today's society being a millionaire is ****ing nothing when a good house costs a million.


You're not rich until you have 10m or more.

[Hawker]

Its already free for them mate. Medicaid... They're all on it and its the same thing.

All this would do is cut out insurance middle men who are currently bogging down the system tremendously, and give path to better negotiating power with pharmaceutical companies. Medicare negotiates downward waaay more than private insurance providers do.

Yeah but all those other countries don't allow illegals to use their healthcare system. They also have strict merid based immigration systems as well.

If you're going to reference other countries, at least be consistent.

We'll also have to increase taxes heavily on the middle class to afford this. And add a federal GST.

[tpols]

Yeah but all those other countries don't allow illegals to use their healthcare system. They also have strict merid based immigration systems as well.

If you're going to reference other countries, at least be consistent.

We'll also have to increase taxes heavily on the middle class to afford this. And add a federal GST.


That s why I kinda hope they do it in medium sized north east states first... They could do it. Cali can't. Alabama can't.

[Vino24]

So what I gather from this is that the middle class (what's left of it) get's screwed even more. Say good by to living comfortably for many Americans

[SomeBlackDude]

We'll also have to increase taxes heavily on the middle class to afford this.

this is true.

i wish comrade bern guevara and his communista rebel army would come in from los campos, put their guns down and talk candidly to the 'murrican public.

stop claiming that everything will be "free" magically.

be honest. let everyone know that in order for their plans to work, taxes will have to go up bigly.

now, if they're smart they'll craft a tax plan that skews towards taxing the top 5-10% disproportionately, taking the brunt of the damage off the middle class.

then let the people decide.

https://i.imgflip.com/2y99be.jpg

[Hawker]

this is true.

i wish comrade bern guevara and his communista rebel army would come in from los campos, put their guns down and talk candidly to the 'murrican public.

stop claiming that everything will be "free" magically.

be honest. let everyone know that in order for their plans to work, taxes will have to go up bigly.

now, if they're smart they'll craft a tax plan that skews towards taxing the top 5-10% disproportionately, taking the brunt of the damage off the middle class.

then let the people decide.

https://i.imgflip.com/2y99be.jpg

Right - but that's not how it's done in other countries. So let's be like them and raise taxes on the middle class heavily.

[Vino24]

if they are going to do this they should go ALL in and give everyone a basic cost of living.

[SomeBlackDude]

Right - but that's not how it's done in other countries. So let's be like them and raise taxes on the middle class heavily.

this is 'murrica, jack. we do things a lil bit differently.

bern should put on a bad ass armored fleece jacket and give this speech (https://youtu.be/tzK97Aaj_U8?t=163) at the lincoln memorial.

the people are with it. :crazysam:


Most Americans Support Increasing Taxes on the Wealthy: Poll

Support for raising taxes is widespread, according to a new poll, which found that 76% of registered voters want the wealthiest Americans to pay more.

[Akrazotile]

if they are going to do this they should go ALL in and give everyone a basic cost of living.

This is not a thing.

Free money doesnt exist.

If everyone gets a cost of living check, stores will raise the prices on everything until once again, just like right now, they find the price point between being as high as possible and affordable to as many people as possible.

Goods and services ARE NOT priced on some objective basis. It is supply and demand. If you increase the availability of money, it will eventually increase prices for goods.

In Italy you make like 100 lira an hour for shining shoes (before they switched to the euro). But a loaf of bread costs 500 lira. It’s called inflation.

People think itd be great if every American got a “free” 1,000 dollars. Guess what? A tank of gas will suddenly cost 200 dollars.

It’s really clear and simple. People cant deny the logic, but they know in their heart they really, REALLY want a handout. So they just ignore it.

[Akrazotile]

this is 'murrica, jack. we do things a lil bit differently.

bern should put on a bad ass armored fleece jacket and give this speech (https://youtu.be/tzK97Aaj_U8?t=163) at the lincoln memorial.

the people are with it. :crazysam:


Everything doesnt come down to what

[SomeBlackDude]

You cant arbitrarily penalize people at whatever tax rate you decide pays for the things you want.


if fidel bernstro and checasio guevara take the white house and both chambers of congress in a bloody coup... what would be the impediment to them raising taxes on the fat cats to fund their medicare for all and other "free" programs? :confusedshrug:

[Akrazotile]

if fidel bernstro and checasio guevara take the white house and both chambers of congress in a bloody coup... what would be the impediment to them raising taxes on the fat cats to fund their medicare for all and other "free" programs? :confusedshrug:


First of all, the present tax rates were stipulated to remain in effect til something like 2025, werent they? Not positive about that but I think so. It

[NumberSix]

this is true.

i wish comrade bern guevara and his communista rebel army would come in from los campos, put their guns down and talk candidly to the 'murrican public.

stop claiming that everything will be "free" magically.

be honest. let everyone know that in order for their plans to work, taxes will have to go up bigly.

now, if they're smart they'll craft a tax plan that skews towards taxing the top 5-10% disproportionately, taking the brunt of the damage off the middle class.

then let the people decide.

https://i.imgflip.com/2y99be.jpg
Taxing the ultra wealthy isn’t going to raise 10% of what it would cost.

And before some idiot says “but the top x% has x% of the wealth”. Yes, WEALTH not money. The overwhelming majority of the wealth is high value assets like ownership of their companies and other assets that aren’t taxable.

At least Bernie has th decency to admit that that the middle class are going to pay for it, which of course they will.

[bladefd]

Its already free for them mate. Medicaid... They're all on it and its the same thing.

All this would do is cut out insurance middle men who are currently bogging down the system tremendously, and give path to better negotiating power with pharmaceutical companies. Medicare negotiates downward waaay more than private insurance providers do.

Pretty much. Every working American and employer already pays into medicare/medicaid and they pay into premiums annually for employer-based insurances. Even states spend BILLIONS APIECE for medicaid each year from state taxes. Total adds up to almost 4 trillion already being paid towards premiums/deductibles/copays/medicare,medicaid taxes each year. It averages out to almost $11,000 PER PERSON ANNUALLY, which is outrageous! Combine them all into one single tax going for universal health care and still save money.

The difference being??
With an universal health care, you get rid of insurance companies, who are the middle men profiting HUNDREDS OF BILLIONS. If you drop the middle men, you can cut down significantly on paperwork, administrative fees and most importantly get rid of a plethora of needless regulations. Don't Republicans want fewer regulations? I thought that's what they want?

You can also negotiate with pharmaceutical companies to bring down costs of medicine with direct negotiations rather than through insurance companies aka middle men. Aren't Republicans fans of deal making? They voted for the bestest greatest smartest and most successful deal maker into the White House in 2016 so I would think they would be all over this.

There is no free money involved here, my friends. We are ALREADY paying for it for a system insurance companies take huge advantage of for their own profits and unnecessary regulations so let's use that same money for a truly universal solution. Hell, add a $10 copay for a doctor visit to help out pay for it a bit further.

[NumberSix]

Pretty much. Every working American and employer already pays into medicare/medicaid and they pay into premiums annually. Total adds up to 3 trillion are already paid towards premiums/deductibles/copays each year. Even states spend BILLIONS APIECE for medicaid each year. It averages out to almost $11,000 PER PERSON ANNUALLY, which is outrageous! Combine them all into one single tax going for universal health care.

The difference being??
With an universal health care, you get rid of insurance companies, who are the middle men profiting HUNDREDS OF BILLIONS. If you drop the middle men, you can cut down significantly on paperwork, administrative fees and most importantly get rid of a plethora of needless regulations. Don't Republicans want fewer regulations? I thought that's what they want?

You can also negotiate with pharmaceutical companies to bring down costs of medicine with direct negotiations rather than through insurance companies aka middle men. Aren't Republicans fans of deal making? They voted for the bestest greatest smartest and most successful deal maker into the White House in 2016 so I would think they would be all over this.

There is no free money involved here, my friends. We are ALREADY paying for it for a system insurance companies take huge advantage of for their own profits and unnecessary regulations so let's use that same money for a truly universal solution.
America isn’t going to have single payer healthcare. It’s not going to happen. The time has passed.

Other countries did it at a time when your doctor showed up at your house with a little black bag with a stethoscope, little glass bottles of medicine and other things in it.

It’s one thing to convince the population to do single payer government healthcare in that pre-modern medicine, pre technology era. It’s another thing to convince a population in the modern era where 180 million have private health coverage.

[bladefd]

if they are going to do this they should go ALL in and give everyone a basic cost of living.

Nah, that would drive up inflation. Akrazotile is 100% on point. I don't think paying every American for cost of living is a good idea.. I would not support that because it would be way too expensive and inflation would be completely out of control.

[bladefd]

America isn’t going to have single payer healthcare. It’s not going to happen. The time has passed.

Other countries did it at a time when your doctor showed up at your house with a little black bag with a stethoscope, little glass bottles of medicine and other things in it.

It’s one thing to convince the population to do single payer government healthcare in that pre-modern medicine, pre technology era. It’s another thing to convince a population in the modern era where 180 million have private health coverage.

Don't be a negative Nancy, friend. Never say never.

Why don't you refute the points I made in that post and tell me where I am wrong in my argument? Can you refute those points? (btw I edited that post a bit since you quoted me)

[qrich]

If you feel the burn, I suggest getting tested for STDs.

[NumberSix]

Don't be a negative Nancy, friend. Never say never.
I

[tpols]

The difference being??
With an universal health care, you get rid of insurance companies, who are the middle men profiting HUNDREDS OF BILLIONS. If you drop the middle men, you can cut down significantly on paperwork, administrative fees and most importantly get rid of a plethora of needless regulations. Don't Republicans want fewer regulations? I thought that's what they want?



the only thing they want is for the democrats to not have what ever there after. thats it.

of course it makes logical sense that eliminating insurers and their enormous bloat would free up tons of money, and make all the regulation on them (o-care) unnecessary and repealable since theyd be...gone.

But alas.. the democrats can NOT win... husseincare is the debil and so is burncare.

[bladefd]

[QUOTE=NumberSix]I

[NumberSix]

Why don't you tell me why you think that? Tell me what you think about my points in that big post. What do you disagree with? Why would it not work today?
It’s not about working or not working. Single payer healthcare works. It’s good, not great. It’s a simple matter of private being better. You’re not going to convince 180 million people to ditch private for something worse.

It’s like asking people to let you take away their 2019 Mercedes in return for a 2005 Toyota. The 2005 Toyota works. It’s a good car. But you’re not giving up your 2019 Mercedes for a 2005 toyota.

[bladefd]

the only thing they want is for the democrats to not have what ever there after. thats it.

of course it makes logical sense that eliminating insurers and their enormous bloat would free up tons of money, and make all the regulation on them (o-care) unnecessary and repealable since theyd be...gone.

But alas.. the democrats can NOT win... husseincare is the debil and so is burncare.

Regulations around medicare, medicaid, Obamacare would all go away to be replaced by one single text of regulation to cover everything and everyone. I would have no issue with limiting it to US citizens/greencard holders only with legal status. There could still be some private insurances for the rich if they want top of the line coverage. Not everyone needs that.

[bladefd]

It’s not about working or not working. Single payer healthcare works. It’s good, not great. It’s a simple matter of private being better. You’re not going to convince 180 million people to ditch private for something worse.

It’s like asking people to let you take away their 2019 Mercedes in return for a 2005 Toyota.

Why though? Employers and employees are already paying an arm and a leg for health care. Almost 4 trillion a year and they still don't get good coverage. Why wouldn't you want something that cuts down on regulations, paperwork for doctors/hospitals, cuts down on administrative fees and saves money ultimately?

[NumberSix]

Why though? Employers and employees are already paying an arm and a leg for health care. Almost 4 trillion a year and they still don't get good coverage. Why wouldn't you want something that cuts down on regulations, paperwork for doctors/hospitals, cuts down on administrative fees and saves money ultimately?
If you think a complete government takeover will REDUCE regulation, paperwork, rep-tape, administrative fees and costs then there’s almost no point even discussing this. That’s not living in reality.

Why the hell would you want healthcare to be subject to the mess that is the political process? Anytime you need to change anything it’s almost impossible to get congress to do it and then you have the mess of the courts putting injunctions on this provision or that thing until the Supreme Court makes a decision.

If these blue states want single payer, nothing is stopping them. So why aren’t they doing it?

[qrich]

Why though? Employers and employees are already paying an arm and a leg for health care. Almost 4 trillion a year and they still don't get good coverage. Why wouldn't you want something that cuts down on regulations, paperwork for doctors/hospitals, cuts down on administrative fees and saves money ultimately?

So if we cut back on regulations and allowed private insurance to compete with each other, more freely, without government sticking their nose into every single enrollment....you'd be for that as well?

Or do you only want it to be the case for government, who has shown to be trustworthy with SS, VA, Medicare, War on Drugs, housing, student loans, etc.?

[Akrazotile]

the only thing they want is for the democrats to not have what ever there after. thats it.

of course it makes logical sense that eliminating insurers and their enormous bloat would free up tons of money, and make all the regulation on them (o-care) unnecessary and repealable since theyd be...gone.

But alas.. the democrats can NOT win... husseincare is the debil and so is burncare.


This is dead wrong.

People dont want to overpay for poor quality healthcare. Has zero to do with democrats.

Peoples premiums already went up under Barrycare. Theyll be paying even more in taxes under Bernie care.

And for what?

So the thousands of alcoholic bums living under overpasses in each city can hit up the hospital free of charge on the dime of people who budget for their own health insurance?

America had a huge number of criminals and drug addicts and deadbeats. They dont deserve MORE shit just because you dont wanna work a little harder and budget a little better for your own health, and youre trying to couch your desire for a handout within the context of “caring about the indigent.” Youre part of the global 1%. Where is your 70% income donation to the people living on less than 2 bucks per day?

You personally want more free stuff for yourself, and youre frauding about some phony rhetoric about moral responsibility. Harry the hobo isnt your responsibility, and you arent Warren Buffet’s. Arent you a grown man??

Have some pride.

[diamenz]

what's wrong with someone wanting free stuff when they're barely scraping by working 60 hours with three kids to feed? and why side with the rich? tax the hell out of 'em - **** 'em. never understood this. u must be super well-off if you're worried about political beliefs more than your own pocketbook. i'm only worried about any relief i can get paying my bills and putting food in my family's belly. suppose that makes me low iq. i'd say **** it, give sanders' plan a shot. aren't u tired of the same old shit? i wanna see something new and different, whether it be trump, sanders, whatever.

[Hawker]

what's wrong with someone wanting free stuff when they're barely scraping by working 60 hours with three kids to feed? and why side with the rich? tax the hell out of 'em - **** 'em. never understood this. u must be super well-off if you're worried about political beliefs more than your own pocketbook. i'm only worried about any relief i can get paying my bills and putting food in my family's belly. suppose that makes me low iq. i'd say **** it, give sanders' plan a shot. aren't u tired of the same old shit? i wanna see something new and different, whether it be trump, sanders, whatever.

So then what's wrong with rich people worrying about their pocketbook?

Being rich isn't immoral - stealing from them is.

Why is someone barely scraping by having three kids?

[Akrazotile]

what's wrong with someone wanting free stuff when they're barely scraping by working 60 hours with three kids to feed? and why side with the rich? tax the hell out of 'em - **** 'em. never understood this. u must be super well-off if you're worried about political beliefs more than your own pocketbook. i'm only worried about any relief i can get paying my bills and putting food in my family's belly. suppose that makes me low iq. i'd say **** it, give sanders' plan a shot. aren't u tired of the same old shit? i wanna see something new and different, whether it be trump, sanders, whatever.


Explain to me what job someone would have where theyre scraping by, working 60 hours a week.

If you say burger flipper, explain WHY theyre flipping burgers with three kids. And what does their spouse do?

Justin Lee Dancy already collects monthly welfare, gets $2k cash per kid each year, food stamps, and probably section 8 housing vouchers. He sits at home and does nothing, his wife drives an uber. But they deserve MORE??

People shouldnt be rewarded for being losers. Do you realize what youre saying? “Dude, **** the rich, if I can get paid for being a loser why not??”

Youd rather be paid to be a loser than strive to be a winner.

It’s pathetic.

[tpols]

And for what?

So the thousands of alcoholic bums living under overpasses in each city can hit up the hospital free of charge on the dime of people who budget for their own health insurance?



Thats already how it is. Hospitals pass on write off costs to insurance companies who turn it over to the general, paying public who get stuck with the super bill in the form of premiums and deductibles... because bums already go to the ER and rack up costs at a super premium.

They already do it.

This is yo argument plato.


https://media.giphy.com/media/LGchtOvvaDslO/giphy.gif





They dont deserve MORE shit just because you dont wanna work a little harder


we want more. and were gonna get it

[Akrazotile]

Thats already how it is. Hospitals pass on write off costs to insurance companies who turn it over to the general, paying public who get stuck with the super bill in the form of premiums and deductibles... because bums already go to the ER and rack up costs at a super premium.

They already do it.

And they shouldnt. They should all be shipped off to California. Not catered to in every city. We should reverse the burden, not exacerbate it.








we want more. and were gonna get it


You absolutely wont, guaranteed.

Right now, you get as much as youre given. Nobody’s gonna GIVE you more.

If you had the mentality to go out and get it, you wouldnt be asking for it. You and all the weak scrubs arent gonna do shit but whine. And that isnt gonna work.

Do you see the Catch 22? If you had the mentality to go get it, you wouldnt be asking for it.

[diamenz]

Explain to me what job someone would have where theyre scraping by, working 60 hours a week.

If you say burger flipper, explain WHY theyre flipping burgers with three kids. And what does their spouse do?

Justin Lee Dancy already collects monthly welfare, gets $2k cash per kid each year, food stamps, and probably section 8 housing vouchers. He sits at home and does nothing, his wife drives an uber. But they deserve MORE??

People shouldnt be rewarded for being losers. Do you realize what youre saying? “Dude, **** the rich, if I can get paid for being a loser why not??”

Youd rather be paid to be a loser than strive to be a winner.

It’s pathetic.

so maybe someone is flipping burgers or bagging groceries juggling three kids caring for a disabled wife and sick mother. guess they should just go back to school and be a winner, huh.

if someone like yang or sanders is gonna save me some cash and take some ****ing weight off my back will i vote for them? you're god damn right i'll give them a shot. something tells me u haven't struggling a day in your life dude. i'm tired, bro. i've been through it - i've had it. i've paid my dues. gimme free shit. i vote with me and mine in mind, not some ****ing political values.

but that's just me.

[Rocket]

Bernie should work on getting single payer passed in Vermont. If it works so well(:roll:), then Vermont can be a shining example to the rest of the country.

[Akrazotile]

so maybe someone is flipping burgers or bagging groceries juggling three kids caring for a disabled wife and sick mother. guess they should just go back to school and be a winner, huh.

if someone like yang or sanders is gonna save me some cash and take some ****ing weight off my back will i vote for them? you're god damn right i'll give them a shot. something tells me u haven't struggling a day in your life dude. i'm tired, bro. i've been through it - i've had it. i've paid my dues. gimme free shit. i vote with me and mine in mind, not some ****ing political values.

but that's just me.


The problem is “gimme free shit” isnt a sustainable solution.

The biggest problem IMO is how many people (like yourself) dont realize it’s not just enough to work hard, you have to work and live SMART. I know thats daunting for many. You have to know how government works. You have to know how economics works. You have to be vocal and proactive. You have a ton of unrealized power in the current system, youre just too lazy and stupid to use it so you demand free shit instead.

That IS a loser mentality. Ambitious people will aways coalesce with each other. If you wanna give them control of the government ON TOP of that, bc they tell you itll be a “workers paradise” :roll:

Nobody’s ever gonna give you as much free shit as you want. If you hand power to a Bernie or a Hugo Chavez or a Castro or a Stalin... Theyre gonna eventually side with the rich cuniving people plotting to take them down, or else theyll get TAKEN down. Bc they know once idiots like you get your hand out, you wont work to protect the integrity of govt. You wont stay involved. Youll be off picking your nose and eating cheetos. You and a hundred million rubes in this country. Bernie and every other person in power will align with 100 smart people who go hard and go smart versus 100 million dopes who dont do shit but watch netflix and sports and every video posted on youtube and couldnt name all 50 states if you gave them half an hour and a map of the US.

Life is competitive. You dont deserve shit just bc youre an ignorant fool flipping burgers. That’s YOUR choice. You HAVE to be smart. Obviously youve thrown in the towel on that already.

Good luck pal.

[bladefd]

[QUOTE=NumberSix]If you think a complete government takeover will REDUCE regulation, paperwork, rep-tape, administrative fees and costs then there

[bladefd]

So if we cut back on regulations and allowed private insurance to compete with each other, more freely, without government sticking their nose into every single enrollment....you'd be for that as well?

Or do you only want it to be the case for government, who has shown to be trustworthy with SS, VA, Medicare, War on Drugs, housing, student loans, etc.?

It still doesn't change the fact that insurance companies are the middle men profiting billions and lobbying the crap out of DC. It still wouldn't eliminate administrative fees and excessive paperwork. It still wouldn't do anything to premiums/deductibles/copays. It would also give them more power to drop whoever they want, whenever they want for whatever reason and deny coverage to people with preexisting conditions. What? You thought insurance companies were trustworthy?? :roll: :roll:

[bladefd]

Notice how guys like Akrazotile, hawker, numbersix and others Republican/Conservatives are avoiding my quoted post below like the fire? It's a bit funny if you ask me because they know they have no idea how to refute that post. All NumberSix could muster up was "Oh, universal health care will never happen" but he was unable to refute that post. I intentionally pushed him and essentially called him out.

Thanks guys. That's all I wanted to hear (or not hear). :cheers:


Pretty much. Every working American and employer already pays into medicare/medicaid and they pay into premiums annually for employer-based insurances. Even states spend BILLIONS APIECE for medicaid each year from state taxes. Total adds up to almost 4 trillion already being paid towards premiums/deductibles/copays/medicare,medicaid taxes each year. It averages out to almost $11,000 PER PERSON ANNUALLY, which is outrageous! Combine them all into one single tax going for universal health care and still save money.

The difference being??
With an universal health care, you get rid of insurance companies, who are the middle men profiting HUNDREDS OF BILLIONS. If you drop the middle men, you can cut down significantly on paperwork, administrative fees and most importantly get rid of a plethora of needless regulations. Don't Republicans want fewer regulations? I thought that's what they want?

You can also negotiate with pharmaceutical companies to bring down costs of medicine with direct negotiations rather than through insurance companies aka middle men. Aren't Republicans fans of deal making? They voted for the bestest greatest smartest and most successful deal maker into the White House in 2016 so I would think they would be all over this.

There is no free money involved here, my friends. We are ALREADY paying for it for a system insurance companies take huge advantage of for their own profits and unnecessary regulations so let's use that same money for a truly universal solution. Hell, add a $10 copay for a doctor visit to help out pay for it a bit further.

[Akrazotile]

Notice how guys like Akrazotile, hawker, numbersix and others Republican/Conservatives are avoiding my quoted post below like the fire? It's a bit funny if you ask me because they know they have no idea how to refute that post. All NumberSix could muster up was "Oh, universal health care will never happen" but he was unable to refute that post. I intentionally pushed him and essentially called him out.

Thanks guys. That's all I wanted to hear (or not hear). :cheers:


Im absolutely all for drastically reducing reliance on insurance companies.

There is NO WAY insurance should cover erectile dysfunction, social anxiety, ADD, type 2 diabetes, drug addiction, “gender transition” and a ton of other things that currently cause bloated premiums.

Insurance should ONLY be for things like cancer, car crashes, heart attack, struck by lightning etc.

The medical industry dupes gullible people into unnecessary treatment just like every other establishment on earth does.

You always want the government to “make it all better” for stupid irresponsible people rather than have people actually smarten up. Smart people tend to think “hey, why dont you guys just be a bit smarter?” Maybe you cant. Maybe thats a failure on our part to see your perspective.

The government wont help you without exploiting you on the back end. Nobody gets a law degree and moves to washington to live like a socialist hippy. Theyre there to take as much for themselves as they can.

You have to be smarter. You have to compete. You have to get on your neighbors to be smarter.

The government WILL NEVER give as much to you as they give to themselves.

Period.

[bladefd]

so maybe someone is flipping burgers or bagging groceries juggling three kids caring for a disabled wife and sick mother. guess they should just go back to school and be a winner, huh.

if someone like yang or sanders is gonna save me some cash and take some ****ing weight off my back will i vote for them? you're god damn right i'll give them a shot. something tells me u haven't struggling a day in your life dude. i'm tired, bro. i've been through it - i've had it. i've paid my dues. gimme free shit. i vote with me and mine in mind, not some ****ing political values.

but that's just me.

Keep in mind that it would not be free stuff. We ALREADY pay trillions as a nation for it. Huge chunk of it simply goes into the pockets of insurance companies middle men and big pharma through needless administrative fees, extra extra paperwork, *secret* negotiations between insurance companies and big pharma (we are not privy to those secret negotiations), excessive redundant regulations, profit margins by these middle men that are never made public. We pay for all of that currently to insurance companies built on the business model of profiting off sick people.

You shift those funds around with a public option, which would kill off most insurance companies. You start negotiating medicine costs with big pharma directly like Medicare. In the end, you bring down the cost of health care as a whole. Nothing would be free but costs come down, you and everyone saves money.

I know how the system works, folks. Some of these very same ideas were articulated by one of my doctors who studies these sorts of things for a living. Insurance companies are playing everyone every single day and laughing their way to the bank. Yes, government running things gets bloated and isn't ideal, which is why I support an independent entity running Healthcare. They can still answer to the judicial branch (courts) and perhaps even report annually to Congress, but I don’t really want Congress running Healthcare directly.

[Akrazotile]

Keep in mind that it would not be free stuff. We ALREADY pay trillions as a nation for it. Huge chunk of it simply goes into the pockets of insurance companies middle men and big pharma through needless administrative fees, extra extra paperwork, *secret* negotiations between insurance companies and big pharma (we are not privy to those secret negotiations), excessive redundant regulations, profit margins by these middle men that are never made public. We pay for all of that currently to insurance companies built on the business model of profiting off sick people.

You shift those funds around with a public option, which would kill off most insurance companies. You start negotiating medicine costs with big pharma directly like Medicare. In the end, you bring down the cost of health care as a whole. Nothing would be free but costs come down, you and everyone saves money.

I know how the system works, folks. Some of these very same ideas were articulated by one of my doctors who studies these sorts of things for a living. Insurance companies are playing everyone every single day and laughing their way to the bank. Yes, government running things gets bloated and isn't ideal, which is why I support an independent entity running Healthcare. They can still answer to the judicial branch (courts) and perhaps even report annually to Congress, but I don’t really want Congress running Healthcare directly.


Nobody forces you to have insurance (except Obama).

But you wanna force others NOT to have insurance. You want millions of people who dont want government care to be FORCED to use it because you say. If they dont want their own money supplying your birth control, you want to FORCE them to.

What if they FORCE you to show up at church? Of stop having gay sex?

Is that okay?

Or is it only okay when you FORCE others to do what you want? They dont know whats best for you, but bladefd knows whats best for everyone else.

If you dont like insurance companies, dont use them. If you want to use them, use them. If you want people to use them more responsibly, get active about it.

Stop trying to be a fascist dictator. You have no more right to others’ personal/financial/health decisions as they do to any of your decisions.

[bladefd]

[QUOTE=Akrazotile]Im absolutely all for drastically reducing reliance on insurance companies.

There is NO WAY insurance should cover erectile dysfunction, social anxiety, ADD, type 2 diabetes, drug addiction,

[bladefd]

[QUOTE=Akrazotile]Nobody forces you to have insurance (except Obama).

But you wanna force others NOT to have insurance. You want millions of people who dont want government care to be FORCED to use it because you say. If they dont want their own money supplying your birth control, you want to FORCE them to.

What if they FORCE you to show up at church? Of stop having gay sex?

Is that okay?

Or is it only okay when you FORCE others to do what you want? They dont know whats best for you, but bladefd knows whats best for everyone else.

If you dont like insurance companies, dont use them. If you want to use them, use them. If you want people to use them more responsibly, get active about it.

Stop trying to be a fascist dictator. You have no more right to others

[Hawker]

Notice how guys like Akrazotile, hawker, numbersix and others Republican/Conservatives are avoiding my quoted post below like the fire? It's a bit funny if you ask me because they know they have no idea how to refute that post. All NumberSix could muster up was "Oh, universal health care will never happen" but he was unable to refute that post. I intentionally pushed him and essentially called him out.

Thanks guys. That's all I wanted to hear (or not hear). :cheers:

Dude - having politicians negotiate my healthcare is one big regulation. You're not cutting shit.

[diamenz]

The problem is “gimme free shit” isnt a sustainable solution.

The biggest problem IMO is how many people (like yourself) dont realize it’s not just enough to work hard, you have to work and live SMART. I know thats daunting for many. You have to know how government works. You have to know how economics works. You have to be vocal and proactive. You have a ton of unrealized power in the current system, youre just too lazy and stupid to use it so you demand free shit instead.

That IS a loser mentality. Ambitious people will aways coalesce with each other. If you wanna give them control of the government ON TOP of that, bc they tell you itll be a “workers paradise” :roll:

Nobody’s ever gonna give you as much free shit as you want. If you hand power to a Bernie or a Hugo Chavez or a Castro or a Stalin... Theyre gonna eventually side with the rich cuniving people plotting to take them down, or else theyll get TAKEN down. Bc they know once idiots like you get your hand out, you wont work to protect the integrity of govt. You wont stay involved. Youll be off picking your nose and eating cheetos. You and a hundred million rubes in this country. Bernie and every other person in power will align with 100 smart people who go hard and go smart versus 100 million dopes who dont do shit but watch netflix and sports and every video posted on youtube and couldnt name all 50 states if you gave them half an hour and a map of the US.

Life is competitive. You dont deserve shit just bc youre an ignorant fool flipping burgers. That’s YOUR choice. You HAVE to be smart. Obviously youve thrown in the towel on that already.

Good luck pal.

all i'll say is that some people are just stuck in their day to day situations and duties without any time to change anything. everyone has a story, man. some people are just too old, broke, or whatever.

[ILLsmak]

The difference being??
With an universal health care, you get rid of insurance companies, who are the middle men profiting HUNDREDS OF BILLIONS. If you drop the middle men, you can cut down significantly on paperwork, administrative fees and most importantly get rid of a plethora of needless regulations. Don't Republicans want fewer regulations? I thought that's what they want?



Wow. Dudes still on this shit. Haha. Not gonna stick around to reply but for fun: insurance and banks should not be big biz, that's true. It should not cost more than a car to get a year worth of medical care, or to stay a night in the hospital.

However this last part doesn't make sense to me. It's like why would they need to regulate something they control? At that point, it's like the opposite, fewer regulations and govt owned is spiraling out of control..

If I thought people could get good health care, I'd support it. Some people need doctors for like their diabetes or w/e. Others have health problems and have to go thru a diagnostic phase. I've been on that shit for the past year and it's a joke how long everything takes to get into a specialist, get a scan, get a procedure etc. And the cost. Holy shit.

I don't think govt would be any more lenient than insurance companies on giving people quick and necessary care. And not even trying to fear monger but I promise you if we do get this (and unlike other dudes I think a lot of this shit is gonna eventually happen cuz people don't know any better.), euthanasia will come into play. It's like Yea well you can get this care for x amount of money or we'll give you a free death shot. I dunno how I feel about that.

Dudes keep enjoying your politics. Remember it's all bullshit but some day soon we will relinquish control of our lives to the govt cuz we are lazy. Hopefully something changes or I die first.

-Smak

[GimmeThat]

I'm not even sure if Finish Line is bold enough to say you won't make it if you don't buy your shoes from us

[Nanners]

Anybody who thinks the US cant afford medicare for all needs to do some traveling - literally every developed nation on the planet (and many "undeveloped") are able to pay for fully socialized healthcare, and despite the fact that we far pay more than any other nation for our healthcare, the US ranks behind virtually every developed country on the vast majority of measurable metrics for healthcare quality. We rank around 50th in infant mortality which is worse than countries like Cuba and Poland, and we rank 36th globally for amenable mortality (for all you ****ing idiots posting in this thread who dont know what amenable mortality means, its deaths that could be prevented with appropriate medical care)

The US is the ONLY "developed" nation on the planet that does not have a socialized healthcare system.... if the rest of the developed world is able to offer their citizens healthcare, we have no excuse for not doing the same.

[ItsMillerTime]

Anybody who thinks the US cant afford medicare for all needs to do some traveling - literally every developed nation on the planet (and many "undeveloped") are able to pay for fully socialized healthcare, and despite the fact that we far pay more than any other nation for our healthcare, the US ranks behind virtually every developed country on the vast majority of measurable metrics for healthcare quality. We rank around 50th in infant mortality which is worse than countries like Cuba and Poland, and we rank 36th globally for amenable mortality (for all you ****ing idiots posting in this thread who dont know what amenable mortality means, its deaths that could be prevented with appropriate medical care)

The US is the ONLY "developed" nation on the planet that does not have a socialized healthcare system.... if the rest of the developed world is able to offer their citizens healthcare, we have no excuse for not doing the same.

The straight up truth is this: the money to pay for Medicare for all is there. However, this country would rather funnel that money towards the military industrial complex and by extension, the Pentagon. (https://www.thenation.com/article/pentagon-audit-budget-fraud/)

The GOP would have you believe socialized medicine is failing in ALL of these other countries, yet the statistics don't lie. Got half the population brainwashed into thinking they don't deserve medical care and have them rooting against themselves. It's unbelievable.

[Nanners]

The straight up truth is this: the money to pay for Medicare for all is there. However, this country would rather funnel that money towards the military industrial complex and by extension, the Pentagon. (https://www.thenation.com/article/pentagon-audit-budget-fraud/)

The GOP would have you believe socialized medicine is failing in ALL of these other countries, yet the statistics don't lie. Got half the population brainwashed into thinking they don't deserve medical care and have them rooting against themselves. It's unbelievable.

Sadly its not just the GOP... the dipshit OP of this idiotic thread is the biggest democrat on this worthless website, and unless I missed something it looks like literally every democrat who has responded to this worthless thread (except you?) opposes medicare for all...


its not half the population that has been brainwashed into rooting against themselves, its more like 9/10ths...

[TheMan]

Oh yes, feel the Bern!!! Bernie and his everything is free and someone else is going to pay for it crap. :facepalm

Bernie would have no issues with bankrupting this country.
Like thats not happening now :rolleyes:

[tpols]

Like thats not happening now :rolleyes:

Its so cute that these GOP guys talk bankrupting after starting two wars & revenue cuts that have already done just that.

[bladefd]

The straight up truth is this: the money to pay for Medicare for all is there. However, this country would rather funnel that money towards the military industrial complex and by extension, the Pentagon. (https://www.thenation.com/article/pentagon-audit-budget-fraud/)

The GOP would have you believe socialized medicine is failing in ALL of these other countries, yet the statistics don't lie. Got half the population brainwashed into thinking they don't deserve medical care and have them rooting against themselves. It's unbelievable.

It's not even about funneling the money to military or whatever being the issue.

The simple fact is the (almost) 4 trillion we already spend on health care as a nation annually on its own through premiums/deductibles/copays from both employee AND employers side combined is enough money to ensure every man, woman and child in this country is fully insured (at least the US citizens and green card holders - I don't know how many illegals are here but I would not mind not covering them under such an universal plan). Truth is we don't need to raise taxes or shift money from the military or wherever to pay for it because we're already paying enough money to fund universal health care.

Yes, it would cost a few trillion dollars. Republicans love to point that out - I just read White Houses newsletter states "The "Medicare for All" bill “seeks utopia by giving government centralized power and control over every aspect of medicine via a single-payer model, and comes with an astronomical price tag. The cost in dollars is in the trillions."

What they DON'T point out is the trillions we would save in return for getting rid of medicare/medicaid/Obamacare/private insurance companies middle men/savings from less paperwork & regulations and secret negotiations between insurance companies/big pharma that screw us people over from secret agreements we are not privy to. Side-note: With the government, you can legally request the REAL cost of a procedure/meds to be released through Freedom of Information Act (health care is not considered classified information so they would have to tell us what the agreement was, much like Medicare currently does). Insurance companies won't tell you how much it cost them and big pharma won't tell you what they charged the insurance company, and you can't do anything since they are private companies.

Back to what Republicans don't point out..
It's like I loan you $100 today and next day, you give me back $75. A month goes by and then you go and tell all my friends I am an a$$hole because I never paid back your $75. At the same time, you don't tell any of them how I loaned you $100 the day before. Why are you only focusing on the 75 you gave to me BUT COMPLETELY OVERLOOKING THE 100 I GAVE YOU! Subtract the two and YOU still owe ME $25, A$$HOLE!

Yes, universal health care would cost a few trillion but we would also save a few trillion from replacing other programs already in place. Subtract the 2 rather than just focus on one end of the equation.

[Hawker]

Its so cute that these GOP guys talk bankrupting after starting two wars & revenue cuts that have already done just that.

Still spouting the revenue cuts lie huh?

Tax revenue is up. Stop lying.

[Norcaliblunt]

Only way you can cut costs in healthcare is through prevention and finding cures.

[NumberSix]

The US is the ONLY "developed" nation on the planet that does not have a socialized healthcare system....
And the United States is also where most new medical science comes from. What an amazing coincidence.

[NumberSix]

The straight up truth is this: the money to pay for Medicare for all is there. However, this country would rather funnel that money towards the military industrial complex and by extension
This, of course, is incorrect.

Medicare+Medicaid right now already costs more than the entire military budget, despite only 34% of people being on Medicare or Medicaid. Reducing the military budget to $0 and putting it all into Medicare wouldn’t come anywhere close to adding the other 66% of people to Medicare.

Just be honest. The only way to pay for it is to raise taxes. And no, just raising taxes on “the rich” is absolutely not going to pay for. You will have to raise taxes to the kinds of level where people who make $50k per year will pay tax rates above 50%.

[Nanners]

And the United States is also where most new medical science comes from. What an amazing coincidence.

absolute nonsense. virtually all of the major drug companies are multinationals, and for most of these companies development/testing happens all over the planet.

anyway, not that its relevant, but approx ~30% of new drugs are developed by companies headquartered in the US, while ~60% are developed by companies headquartered in socialist Europe.

[tpols]

And the United States is also where most new medical science comes from. What an amazing coincidence.


What lol...

Germany has some of the biggest and best pharmaceutical companies in the world...and some of the best medical facilities as well. They have Medicare for all.

[NumberSix]

anyway, not that its relevant, but approx ~30% of new drugs are developed by companies headquartered in the US, while ~60% are developed by companies headquartered in socialist Europe.
Lol @ “headquartered”

Yes, many American pharma companies have parent companies (holdings companies) that are “headquartered” in countries like Ireland, because Ireland has a 12% corporate tax rate. The same way a lot of financial corporations are “headquartered” in the Cayman Islands.

Over 700 American companies have headquarters in Ireland. I assure you, these companies are not doing their medical science research and development in Ireland. That’s just were they pay their taxes, at a very low tax rate.

So yeah, there are plenty of new drugs being developed in New Jersey by companies with “headquarters” in Ireland.

[bladefd]

This, of course, is incorrect.

Medicare+Medicaid right now already costs more than the entire military budget, despite only 34% of people being on Medicare or Medicaid. Reducing the military budget to $0 and putting it all into Medicare wouldn’t come anywhere close to adding the other 66% of people to Medicare.

Just be honest. The only way to pay for it is to raise taxes. And no, just raising taxes on “the rich” is absolutely not going to pay for. You will have to raise taxes to the kinds of level where people who make $50k per year will pay tax rates above 50%.

So many false things in your one single post. You are also trying to be slick, focusing on half the equation.. Won't work as I pointed out in my post above.

Tl;dr if you don't want to..
We spend around 4 trillion annually on health care. That includes in there Medicare/medicaid/private insurance premiums, copay, deductibles. You shift to universal health care, and are you trying to tell me 4 trillion wouldn't be enough for funding universal health care? 91% of the country is currently insured even with a system where insurance companies are profiting BILLIONS (not merely revenue but profit) as middle men and buying off huge chunk of politicians to keep it going.

Many of those insured people are under-insured, yes, which is why insurance companies going out of the loop as middle men is essential along with direct negotiations with big pharma without going through private insurance companies, who are driven by greed and profit model off sick people.

Furthermore, even if you were to tax $5k to someone making $50k now to help fund universal health care, it still wouldn't come close to how much they spend annually on average for their health care each year now for their premiums/deductible/copay. (it's about 11k annually per person now). They would actually save money.

But here you are saying we would need at least 50% tax rates on everyone.. Do you hear how you sound?

[bladefd]

Btw, I use universal health care and Medicare for all as synonymous.. There are technically different systems of universal health care, one of which would be medicare for all in America.. For all intents and purposes, I honestly don't care if we scale up medicare to national scale or use some other universal health care system. There are several different models of universal health care, and each one has pros and cons. We don't need to get into all that here but just wanted to explain briefly..