Dirk or LeBron all time?

[stalkerforlife]

I've got Dirk for a lot of reasons...

Stayed the course.
Won 50+ 11 years in a row in the West.
Elevated teammates.
Sacrificed stats for the betterment of the team.
Beat Bran's super team in the finals.
Should be a two time champion, but 06 finals were rigged.
Played a winning style instead of accumulating stats.
Won a title against a super team without a super team.
Played the most seasons of all time for one franchise.
Won in spite of an owner that was more concerned with financial than team success.
Better off ball player.
Better mid range player.
Better post player.
Quickly passed out of doubles to ensure the best shot available and ignored assist accumulation.
Better defensive effort.
Great locker room guy and teammate.
Didn't blame teammates and throw them under the bus after every failure.
Etc.

I would flat out take Dirk over Bran if I'm starting a team and I'd win more if everything else was equal, such as teammates, owner, coach, etc.

[Shaquille O'Neal]

All of what you said plus:


Better moves
Can shoot over people
Better midrange %
Better 3pt %
Much, much better FT %

[red1]

hard to say. can't vote on this one it's too close.


all I know is neither of these guys would shoot 6 for 24 in the biggest game of their career - in a game 7 of the finals. :eek:

[TheCorporation]

hard to say. can't vote on this one it's too close.


all I know is neither of these guys would shoot 6 for 24 in the biggest game of their career - in a game 7 of the finals. :eek:

:eek:

1 FMVP after his first 6 tries :lol

[ImKobe]

hard to say. can't vote on this one it's too close.


all I know is neither of these guys would shoot 6 for 24 in the biggest game of their career - in a game 7 of the finals. :eek:

2/13 for 8 pts in Game 6 to lose to an 8th seed in the first round for MVP Dirk

10/30 for 24 pts in Game 4 to get swept by the Spurs for Lebron

not to mention Lebron going 2/18, 6/24, 5/16 & 7/20 in B2B2B games (to an average of 25%) against Boston in a series where he lost in a Game 7. Imagine going 2/18 with 10 turnovers in a game where your team loses by 4 points...absolutely pathetic.

[paksat]

2/13 for 8 pts in Game 6 to lose to an 8th seed in the first round for MVP Dirk

10/30 for 24 pts in Game 4 to get swept by the Spurs for Lebron

not to mention Lebron going 2/18, 6/24, 5/16 & 7/20 in B2B2B games (to an average of 25%) against Boston in a series where he lost in a Game 7. Imagine going 2/18 with 10 turnovers in a game where your team loses by 4 points...absolutely pathetic.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rcWkDUgskEo


but yeah, it's dirk easily

better passer

ball handler

better vision

much better defender

and everything else like shooting too

[ImKobe]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rcWkDUgskEo


but yeah, it's dirk easily

better passer

ball handler

better vision

much better defender

and everything else like shooting too

:applause:

[stalkerforlife]

Dirk destroying Bran.

Can Simon get the vote close with all his alts?

[pauk]

Dirk obviously, Lebron sux, dunno how he got to NBA.

[stalkerforlife]

Dirk obviously, Lebron sux, dunno how he got to NBA.

Does it hurt to know Dirk is much more respected on and off the court?

He's flat out a better man in every way.

[tpols]

Does it hurt to know Dirk is much more respected on and off the court?

He's flat out a better man in every way.


especially after this year... seeing dirks decades long loyalty and general gamesmanship.

this comparison is a damn shame.

[Overdrive]

Dirk took casts (deep in)to the playoffs that weren't better than Lebron's first Cavs. The difference? Dirk stayed and won.

[Manny98]

Dirk easily, LeBron is a fraud

[Shaquille O'Neal]

Look, both are great players.


At the end of the day I'd much rather play WITH Dirk. If "our" team loses then we all lost, and Dirk would tell the media we'll regroup and try again.


With LeGed, if we lose it's the team's fault. If we win "I'm the greatest player in the world".


Lebron's biggest flaw, even bigger than fear of the last second shot and FT attempts, is his narcissism. Since age 15 he has been told he's the greatest and hasn't had a strong male role model (like Shaq's "Dad" - the Sarge) to shutup, sit your ass down and be humble.

[Shaquille O'Neal]

Dirk easily, LeBron is a fraud





:applause: Glad to see you wising up young buck. There's hope for you yet.

[stalkerforlife]

Dirk easily, LeBron is a fraud

The pressure is shaking you Bransvestites...

[BigKobeFan]

Look, both are great players.


At the end of the day I'd much rather play WITH Dirk. If "our" team loses then we all lost, and Dirk would tell the media we'll regroup and try again.


With LeGed, if we lose it's the team's fault. If we win "I'm the greatest player in the world".


Lebron's biggest flaw, even bigger than fear of the last second shot and FT attempts, is his narcissism. Since age 15 he has been told he's the greatest and hasn't had a strong male role model (like Shaq's "Dad" - the Sarge) to shutup, sit your ass down and be humble.

his only male role model steals his fruits, drive his cars, and spends his money

[Celtics 1825]

Dirk easily, LeBron is a fraud
Who hacked you?

[stalkerforlife]

Look, both are great players.


At the end of the day I'd much rather play WITH Dirk. If "our" team loses then we all lost, and Dirk would tell the media we'll regroup and try again.


With LeGed, if we lose it's the team's fault. If we win "I'm the greatest player in the world".


Lebron's biggest flaw, even bigger than fear of the last second shot and FT attempts, is his narcissism. Since age 15 he has been told he's the greatest and hasn't had a strong male role model (like Shaq's "Dad" - the Sarge) to shutup, sit your ass down and be humble.

Bingo.

[The Iron Fist]

Who hacked you?
He

[stalkerforlife]

[QUOTE=The Iron Fist]He

[AussieSteve]

Putting all the non basketball stuff aside and considering only the question 'who is the better basketball player?'...

LeBron is so much better than Dirk that's it's laughable anyone would even bother to consider this question.

The only reason anyone would put Dirk over LeBron is because of personal biases or agendas.

[stalkerforlife]

Putting all the non basketball stuff aside and considering only the question 'who is the better basketball player?'...

LeBron is so much better than Dirk that's it's laughable anyone would even bother to consider this question.

The only reason anyone would put Dirk over LeBron is because of personal biases or agendas.

Ridiculous.

[AussieSteve]

Ridiculous.

As in 'this thread is ...'

[stalkerforlife]

As in 'this thread is ...'

11 straight 50+ win teams in the West.
Beat Bran's super team with role player help.
Didn't need to hop around a pathetic conference forming super teams to win.
Sacrificed stats as opposed to playing for stats.
Elevated rather than diminished teammates.

Dirk is better.

[Uncle Drew]

This thread is an insult to Dirk. Even dumber than your Wade/Pierce poll.

[AussieSteve]

11 straight 50+ win teams in the West.
Beat Bran's super team with role player help.
Didn't need to hop around a pathetic conference forming super teams to win.
Sacrificed stats as opposed to playing for stats.
Elevated rather than diminished teammates.

Dirk is better.


Cool story.

He made the finals twice and averaged 24ppg on 40% shooting, with more turnovers than assists.

He was trash in the 2006 and only won in 2011 because your favorite player played the worst series of his career.

Having said all this... he is obviously an ATG player and top 5 PF all time (I have him 3rd). But stop trying to elevate him from his rightful place in the 15-25 range all-time, by comparing him with someone who is without question one of the top 5 players all time.

[RRR3]

Dirk obviously since LeBron is the worst player of all time.

[stalkerforlife]

Cool story.

He made the finals twice and averaged 24ppg on 40% shooting, with more turnovers than assists.

He was trash in the 2006 and only won in 2011 because your favorite player played the worst series of his career.

Having said all this... he is obviously an ATG player and top 5 PF all time (I have him 3rd). But stop trying to elevate him from his rightful place in the 15-25 range all-time, by comparing him with someone who is without question one of the top 5 players all time.

You can't be a top 5 player of all time while team hopping, forming super teams in the worst conference ever, playing illegally with the help of the NBA, and putting box scores over team success. Actual teams bludgeoned his fake stat stuffing ass continually in the finals and you Bransvestites couldn't see the forest through the box score trees. His exact counterpart won finals MVP 4 times on his troll face and he was on the losing side of all the most lopsided finals of all time.

Get over it.

[zizozain]

Bran is a great player
Dirk is a legend

[egokiller]

LeBron did a few things in his career correctly:

1. Missed a shot in the correct direction so that Bosh could get the rebound and kick it out to Ray Allen for the win.

2. Scored 1 point in the final 4 minutes of game 7 in 2016 but at least knew enough to gtfo of Kyrie's way and let him do what is needed to win the game.

But that's about it, so this poll favors Dirk easily.

[And1AllDay]

https://i.postimg.cc/GpJ55DyS/InthideHoopth.png

https://i.postimg.cc/GpJ55DyS/InthideHoopth.png

:biggums:

[LeCola]

Who is better?
Lebron.

Who would I draft for my team?
Dirk.

[Skip_Bayless]

Not surprised at all by this poll result.

[Duncan21formvp]

Dirk he beat Lebron head to head without HCA and with less stars on his team when Lebron was at his peak.

[PickernRoller]

Dirk he beat Lebron head to head without HCA and with less stars on his team when Lebron was at his peak.

..

[Phoenix]

:roll: at the poll results. Simon alt clan on suicide watch.

[Walk on Water]

Dirk over Lebron. Why join a super team when all you need is J.J. Bareua?

Also, Dirk has made the playoffs before in the West. He has led bad teams to the playoffs almost single handily in the West. Lebron cannot say the same.

[Real14]

:roll: at the poll results. Simon alt clan on suicide watch.
Yup the truth is finally shining :applause:

[HeatFanSince88]

Dirk won with his original franchise and the bestteammate of his career being Jason Terry. And he was robbed of another in the 2006 Finals (I say this as a Heat fan)

Lebron had to leave, wait for his original franchise to accumulate two more #1 overall picks, come back, get lucky with a Bogut injury and Draymond green suspension and then bailed again to ringchase and miss the playoffs.

lebron is the greater talent, but any noncuckhold is taking Dirk.. Doesn't have to have the system catered to him to dominate, doesn't need 2 other superstars to win rings, isn't a cancer in the lockerroom, won't abandon ship.

[SpaceJam]

Guess Dirk officially, at the very least, 2nd all time, knocking Bron down to 3rd

[stalkerforlife]

Damn.

[SpaceJam2]

Guess Dirk officially, at the very least, 2nd all time, knocking Bron down to 3rd

Russell
Dirk
Bran
Billups
Goatbe
Fraudon


ISH official top 6

[PickernRoller]

Like a wise old man once said. Time is on our side.

[BallsOut]

Dirk and it's not close.

[stalkerforlife]

Funny thing is, there's people that think this is an outrageous comparison.

But it's clear as day that you take Dirk every single time if you have to choose between the two.

No self serving stats will ever compare to what Dirk brought his original franchise.

[SpaceJam2]

Funny thing is, there's people that think this is an outrageous comparison.

But it's clear as day that you take Dirk every single time if you have to choose between the two.

No self serving stats will ever compare to what Dirk brought his original franchise.

Spoken like a true cuck. We know about your cuck history baby boy :lol

[superduper]

Funny thing is, there's people that think this is an outrageous comparison.

But it's clear as day that you take Dirk every single time if you have to choose between the two.

No self serving stats will ever compare to what Dirk brought his original franchise.

If your goal is for your franchise to prosper and see success for the next 20 years or so with minimal to no drama and guaranteed loyalty and integrity from your franchise cornerstone player who is not only loved by his teammates/coaches/execs but also your entire fanbase due to his genuinity, it's an absolute no brainer for Dirk.

If your goal is for your franchise player to demand for a team overhaul mid season every single year while throwing visible tantrums on the court and throwing everyone from players 2-15 all the way down to the ball boy under the bus and then calling them "my guys" after his tantrum is unsuccessful while your franchise and its fans are all on edge the entire time, all while seeing relatively minimal success, the ONLY answer is LeGOAT :rockon:

[stalkerforlife]

If your goal is for your franchise to prosper and see success for the next 20 years or so with minimal to no drama and guaranteed loyalty and integrity from your franchise cornerstone player who is not only loved by his teammates/coaches/execs but also your entire fanbase due to his genuinity, it's an absolute no brainer for Dirk.

If your goal is for your franchise player to demand for a team overhaul mid season every single year while throwing visible tantrums on the court and throwing everyone from players 2-15 all the way down to the ball boy under the bus and then calling them "my guys" after his tantrum is unsuccessful while your franchise and its fans are all on edge the entire time, all while seeing relatively minimal success, the ONLY answer is LeGOAT :rockon:

Imagine what Dirk could've done with all of Bran's super teams and payrolls.

Cuban literally dismantled Dirk's title team the very next season because he was more concerned with making money.

[stalkerforlife]

Imagine what Dirk could've done with all of Bran's super teams and payrolls.

Cuban literally dismantled Dirk's title team the very next season because he was more concerned with making money.

And imagine that in the East.

[red1]

can't lie I had to vote.




going with dirk on this one.

[stalkerforlife]

can't lie I had to vote.




going with dirk on this one.

It's an obvious choice.

[superduper]

$tats.

Bran wins... again!! :mad:

[red1]

It's an obvious choice.
I respect dirk. He deserved it in 2011.


I have no problem with this.

[Manny98]

Anyone that genuinely believes Dirk > LeBron can go jump off a bridge

[knicksman]

Anyone that genuinely believes Dirk > LeBron can go jump off a bridge


you wouldnt be needing multiple alts if youre smart

[Manny98]

you wouldnt be needing multiple alts if youre smart
your IQ is below 100 why are you even talking dumbass

[sd3035]

Obviously Dirk, how is this even a question?

[knicksman]

your IQ is below 100 why are you even talking dumbass

my boy would be 3/9 if im a dumbass

[jstern]

So it's basically 47 to like 2 in Dirk's favor. That's 95.9% of the votes. I'm pretty surprised. Thought it would be a lot closer.

[Nike D'Antoni]

“That coughing incident was LeBron James and me just being young”: Dwyane Wade apologizes for mocking Dirk Nowitzki during the 2011 Finals

“I would tell my son not to do something like that”: Dwyane Wade on his infamous Dirk Nowitzki-mocking incident

https://thesportsrush.com/nba-news-that-coughing-incident-was-lebron-james-and-me-just-being-young-dwyane-wade-apologizes-for-mocking-dirk-nowitzki-during-the-2011-finals/

[Full Court]

Lebrone has obviously accomplished more throughout his career, but Nowitzki completely sonned him in 2011. When you utterly destroy somebody in the finals like that, I cannot rank the loser higher.

Had Jordan ever had a finals like that, I would not have him as GOAT.

[TheCorporation]

Lebrone has obviously accomplished more throughout his career, but Nowitzki completely sonned Wade in 2011. When you utterly destroy somebody in the finals like that, I cannot rank the loser higher.

Had Jordan ever had a finals like that, I would not have him as GOAT.

It's a good thing we saw the end of Wade ball in 2011 which sparked the start of the greatest 5-year peak in NBA history (LeBron 2012-2016).

[Full Court]

It's a good thing we saw the end of Wade ball in 2011 which sparked the start of the greatest 5-year peak in NBA history (LeBron 2012-2016).

C'mon, bro. You can't pin that all on Wade.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UHtuQIJ1F1U

[kawhileonard2]

Dirk he beat Lebron head to head without HCA.

[kawhileonard2]

It's a good thing we saw the end of Wade ball in 2011 which sparked the start of the greatest 5-year peak in NBA history (LeBron 2012-2016).

How so?

[Nike D'Antoni]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=voIbVcUXtH4

[Full Court]

Man, this poll isn't even close. :roll:

[kawhileonard2]

Dirk after beating Lebron without HCA.

[Nike D'Antoni]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FnSCQfqXkAARe0C?format=jpg&name=small

Maybe best NBA statue?

[Full Court]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FnSCQfqXkAARe0C?format=jpg&name=small

Maybe best NBA statue?

The best NBA statue is Lebron playing defense. :lol

[j3lademaster]

No way this site has 100 members for these poll results.

[arifgokcen]

Lol havent been here in ages. WOW is this even a real thread WOWWWW

[KNOW1EDGE]

This thread wreaks of desperation. It’s sad really

[Nike D'Antoni]

Dirk Nowitzki is officially a Hall of Fame basketball star. Lebron not yet, despite his 100% chances to get to the hall of fame.

[Lebron23]

Lmao

[Jasper]

bron all the way. Dirk two teams in his career /

Bron colluded as at time colluder in the world.

/

[kawhileonard2]

Dirk he beat Lebron head to head without HCA.

[Hey Yo]

Dirk he beat Lebron head to head without HCA.

8th seed Zach beat 1st seed Timmy in the first round H2H without HCA

[ShawkFactory]

Dirk he beat Lebron head to head without HCA.

So I guess we’re gonna say Baron Davis > Dirk then?

[SouBeachTalents]

So I guess we’re gonna day Baron Davis > Dirk then?
I don't think he'll address this.

[Full Court]

Dirk he beat Lebron head to head without HCA.

Didn't just beat him - straight up SONNED him.

[3ba11]

So I guess we’re gonna say Baron Davis > Dirk then?


Beating Curry without HCA was Lebron's goat accomplishment, according to you

Or it was the 8 straight conference titles that he manufactured by putting the top 3 first options in the conference on 1 team (fraud)

So I guess his accomplishments are bs

[ShawkFactory]

Beating Curry without HCA was Lebron's goat accomplishment, according to you

Or it was the 8 straight conference titles that he manufactured by putting the top 3 first options in the conference on 1 team (fraud)
of Lbeorn's That's the main reason you guys say Lebron is goat (he beat Curry without HCA)

What the fvck are you talking about? :lol

Put the bottle down and go to bed.

[3ba11]

What the fvck are you talking about? :lol

Put the bottle down and go to bed.


You said that beating Dirk without HCA wasn't a big deal, aka it didn't make Baron Davis better than Dirk, so I'm applying that same logic to Lebron beating Curry without HCA - not a big deal

So Lebron's accomplishments like beating Curry aren't a big deal or 8 straight conference titles that were manufactured by putting the top 3 first options in the conference on 1 team (fraud)

So I guess his accomplishments are bs

[ShawkFactory]

You said that beating Dirk without HCA wasn't a big deal, aka it didn't make Baron Davis better than Dirk, so I'm applying that same logic to Lebron beating Curry without HCA - not a big deal

So Lebron's accomplishments like beating Curry aren't a big deal or 8 straight conference titles that were manufactured by putting the top 3 first options in the conference on 1 team (fraud)

So I guess his accomplishments are bs

I did?

[3ba11]

I did?


You said it wasn't a big enough deal to put Baron over Dirk

Accordingly, Lebron beating Curry without HCA = not enough by itself to put Lebron over curry

So Lebron's accomplishments like beating Curry aren't goat or 8 straight conference titles that were manufactured by putting the top 3 first options in the conference on 1 team (fraud)

So I guess his accomplishments are bs

[kawhileonard2]

So I guess we’re gonna say Baron Davis > Dirk then?

Dirk won the title, Baron Davis didn't get out of round 2. Dirk won the title for the franchise that drafted him. Lebron joined forces with a guy who won the title as the man for a franchise that never won.

[ShawkFactory]

You said it wasn't a big enough deal to put Baron over Dirk

Accordingly, Lebron beating Curry without HCA = not enough by itself to put Lebron over curry

So Lebron's accomplishments like beating Curry aren't goat or 8 straight conference titles that were manufactured by putting the top 3 first options in the conference on 1 team (fraud)

So I guess his accomplishments are bs

Nobody said that it does. What does this have to do with anything?

Again..stop drinking and go to bed.

[3ba11]

:facepalm:

[ShawkFactory]

You know someone is doing well when they have to invent an argument on someone’s behalf in order to be able to make their point.

[3ba11]

Nobody said that it does.


You guys claim the 16' Finals is the GOAT achievement and Lebron says it made him GOAT

so i guess he's wrong and you guys are wrong.

apparently, it's just one series that doesn't put him over Curry just like Baron isn't over dirk..

so his 16' Finals isn't a goat achievement, while his 8 straight conference titles were manufactured by putting the top 3 first options in the conference on 1 team (the "decision")

So again, his accomplishments ain't shit compared to GOAT-caliber

(and btw the 16' Finals was a fraudulent/manufactured upset since it was due to Lebron's preseason favorite underachieving the regular season and ceding favorite status to others just like many other years)

[Full Court]

Dirk knocked Bronie out of the running for GOAT back in 2011. Bronie's fluffers still haven't gotten over it.

[1987_Lakers]

Damn, 3ball banned again.

[DMAVS41]

Dirk knocked Bronie out of the running for GOAT back in 2011. Bronie's fluffers still haven't gotten over it.

I hate absolutes, but this is almost for sure true for most.

Performing like that as a vet in the heart of your prime in the finals....really hard to overcome that when trying to claim GOAT.

Never say never though, because if the Lakers somehow won the title this year with Lebron leading the way. Man, how is he not?

[ImKobe]

I hate absolutes, but this is almost for sure true for most.

Performing like that as a vet in the heart of your prime in the finals....really hard to overcome that when trying to claim GOAT.

Never say never though, because if the Lakers somehow won the title this year with Lebron leading the way. Man, how is he not?

There's a man who used to play for the Bulls who won 6 rings with 6 FMVPs and never came close to losing in the Finals, and never lost with HCA in the Playoffs.

[DMAVS41]

There's a man who used to play for the Bulls who won 6 rings with 6 FMVPs and never came close to losing in the Finals, and never lost with HCA in the Playoffs.

I'm talking about the longevity Lebron would achieve with a result like that. I agree that at their peaks...Jordan was better. So if that is how someone exclusively ranks, I'm fine with that, but I think longevity matters to some degree....although I don't weigh it is much as peak.

But, man, Lebron at age 38 leading this team to a title....the length of his greatness would be unmatched. He'd have something like 100 more playoff games played than Jordan with insane career averages spanning over 2 decades.

[Lebron23]

There's a man who used to play for the Bulls who won 6 rings with 6 FMVPs and never came close to losing in the Finals, and never lost with HCA in the Playoffs.

He beat some weak teams in the NBA Finals

[Bacchus]

Diggler. He beat James head to head in the finals with a much weaker supporting cast without home court advantage

[Full Court]

I hate absolutes, but this is almost for sure true for most.

Performing like that as a vet in the heart of your prime in the finals....really hard to overcome that when trying to claim GOAT.

Never say never though, because if the Lakers somehow won the title this year with Lebron leading the way. Man, how is he not?

Even if that happened, which is unlikely since he's dead weight more than anything for the Lakers right now...but even if it did, he's still got 5 FMVPs in 20 years to Jordan's 6 FMVPs in 15 years (with no finals losses).

Not to mention the inability to three-peat even once, when MJ had two of them.

[kawhileonard2]

He beat some weak teams in the NBA Finals

The same teams that beat Peak Duncan/Robinson, Peak Hakeem/Barkley/Drexler, Peak Shaq/Kobe/Jones/Van Exel.

Lebron couldn't beat prime Duncan.

[DMAVS41]

Even if that happened, which is unlikely since he's dead weight more than anything for the Lakers right now...but even if it did, he's still got 5 FMVPs in 20 years to Jordan's 6 FMVPs in 15 years (with no finals losses).

Not to mention the inability to three-peat even once, when MJ had two of them.

Everyone has different criteria...just counting up finals mvp's or weighing 3peats mean very little to me. MJ is number 1 or me, but Lebron isn't finished yet...he already has the best longevity in NBA history.

The simple question is...can Lebron's sustained excellence allow a solid argument to made that he's more valuable over the course of his career even though Jordan peaked higher. To date, my answer would be no, but if Lebron leads a team to a title this year and he's producing titles in year 20...discounting that longevity, in my opinion, would be a mistake.

Not saying he would, for sure, be the GOAT, but man...if he plays 25 total years and pulls off something crazy this late...while playing at this level...it's just historic.

[DMAVS41]

The same teams that beat Peak Duncan/Robinson, Peak Hakeem/Barkley/Drexler, Peak Shaq/Kobe/Jones/Van Exel.

Lebron couldn't beat prime Duncan.

You really believe that? That Lebron just had no chance to beat a Duncan led team with similar help?

I'm higher on Duncan than most, but he wasn't some unbeatable force. Right in the heart of the Spurs dominance in which they won all but one series in a 3 year period...the series he lost...was to Dirk with a significantly worse coach and slightly worse roster. Are you arguing that Dirk in his prime was better than Lebron in his prime?

[Lebron23]

LeBron was the only player who beat Tim Duncan in the nba finals.

[imdaman99]

There's too many Lebron haters out there. I admit I'm not a fan of his but I respect him. I actually like Dirk a million times more than Lebron but Dirk is nowhere near Lebron all time. The longevity is ridiculous. Lebron is #2 all time in my opinion. I don't know where Dirk is but he is not top 20.

[fsvr54]

I'm a certified Lebron hater but picking Dirk over him is just LOL

[Shaquille O'Neal]

Ray Allen was the only player who beat Tim Duncan in the nba finals.

Corrected. LBJ didn't do shit down the stretch of game 6 other than jack up 3's and turn the ball over.

[ImKobe]

I'm talking about the longevity Lebron would achieve with a result like that. I agree that at their peaks...Jordan was better. So if that is how someone exclusively ranks, I'm fine with that, but I think longevity matters to some degree....although I don't weigh it is much as peak.

But, man, Lebron at age 38 leading this team to a title....the length of his greatness would be unmatched. He'd have something like 100 more playoff games played than Jordan with insane career averages spanning over 2 decades.

I mean Kareem kinda did that in '85 but I understand your reasoning. I just can't use longevity as the deciding factor when MJ still has more chips and a cleaner PO resume. I know people are tired of Jordan and want a new GOAT to argue for but Bran would need to go Tom Brady and win multiple titles as the best player on his team at an age that none of the other ATGs have done it at. He'd need to get 2 more for there to be a legitimate discussion for me. Right now I could argue Duncan over Bran before we even get to Jordan and Duncan's longevity was pretty damn great as well.

[ELITEpower23]

This is from 2019 :lol

Redo :pimp:

[ShawkFactory]

Corrected. LBJ didn't do shit down the stretch of game 6 other than jack up 3's and turn the ball over.

Didn’t he have like 20 points in the 4th quarter?

[ELITEpower23]

Corrected. LBJ didn't do shit down the stretch of game 6 other than jack up 3's and turn the ball over.

This is what excruciatingly deep pain looks like.

[DMAVS41]

I mean Kareem kinda did that in '85 but I understand your reasoning. I just can't use longevity as the deciding factor when MJ still has more chips and a cleaner PO resume. I know people are tired of Jordan and want a new GOAT to argue for but Bran would need to go Tom Brady and win multiple titles as the best player on his team at an age that none of the other ATGs have done it at. He'd need to get 2 more for there to be a legitimate discussion for me. Right now I could argue Duncan over Bran before we even get to Jordan and Duncan's longevity was pretty damn great as well.

I agree mostly. I'm not sure Lebron would have to get 2 more for me...but at least one more and then maybe like 4 or 5 more seasons at or close to his current level.

To me, it is very clear that MJ was the more valuable player in terms of impact if you took MJ/Lebron for reach of their 12 best years. I like to think of it in terms of expected titles or EV when it comes to ranking players. In most cases, that will weigh the peak/prime of a career heavily, rightfully so imo, because that is when they move the needle so much.

However, where it starts to become an issue is when guys are so good late in their careers...that they actually are good enough to impact winning the title. You bring up Duncan...and I could not agree more. It is one reason I have him so high....I haven't done my rankings lately, but I believe last time I had him either 4th or 5th. Not only did Duncan peak at an unreal level...think 2003 playoffs...but his longevity was insane. He was still elite in 2013...and was a crazy sequence away from winning a title and finals MVP.

So, the question for me will always be...how much does Lebron move the needle outside of those 12 best years or so. We already know that MJ was better in his peak/prime...but does Lebron being this good...for maybe a total of 25 years...close the gap all the way? We already know it narrows it, but the question is....does it overcome it?

My answer, and yours, is no at this time...but it's closer now for me than I ever thought it would be a couple years ago because Lebron is still so damn good.

[Nike D'Antoni]

"Tremendous that he can still play like this in his Year 20. The athleticism is incredible. I'm happy for him. I always say that Michael Jordan is the G.O.A.T — if (LeBron) really passes Kareem (Abdul-Jabbar) in the scoring record, I'm running out of arguments for Michael. What this guy has done is nothing short of incredible.

"The longevity — I always say, being called 'Kings' at 15 and how he turned out, and what he's done for communities at where he played and changed so many lives... He's a very, very special athlete. I think, for now, we need to appreciate watching him and the level he's playing at."

https://twitter.com/i/status/1607209595889659904


I don't think Dirk calls himself over Lebron

[kawhileonard2]

This is what excruciatingly deep pain looks like.

What you mean?

[Full Court]

Bronie fluffers furiously scrambling all their alts to do damage control on this poll.

:roll:

[90sgoat]

Lebron for sure deserves credit for his longevity, even if he got the league to change the rules so that he could better hang.

[tpols]

I'm a certified Lebron hater but picking Dirk over him is just LOL

Lebron has had a much better career, but we all saw dirk humiliate him in their primes. Dirk was actually end prime and still kicked ass.

[kawhileonard2]

Corrected. LBJ didn't do shit down the stretch of game 6 other than jack up 3's and turn the ball over.

And they took Tim Duncan out of the game. It was WWE Scripted.

[ShawkFactory]

Lebron has had a much better career, but we all saw dirk humiliate him in their primes. Dirk was actually end prime and still kicked ass.

That's not the determining factor though. Not only does someone outplaying another in a series not mean they had a better career (as you've mentioned), but it also doesn't even mean they're a better player. A lot of people in the history of the game have been outplayed by inferior players over 5-6-7 games. Almost all of them.

It's fun for talking points and of course it's magnified because it's the finals, but saying "2011" is not a legit argument for Dirk over Lebron.

And saying that he stayed with one team is even less legit. It can be a nice talking point because everyone loves a legacy with a franchise...but it actually has nothing to do with basketball.

[DMAVS41]

That's not the determining factor though. Not only does someone outplaying another in a series not mean they had a better career (as you've mentioned), but it also doesn't even mean they're a better player. A lot of people in the history of the game have been outplayed by inferior players over 5-6-7 games. Almost all of them.

It's fun for talking points and of course it's magnified because it's the finals, but saying "2011" is not a legit argument for Dirk over Lebron.

And saying that he stayed with one team is even less legit. It can be a nice talking point because everyone loves a legacy with a franchise...but it actually has nothing to do with basketball.

Nobody actually thinks Dirk was better than Lebron.

[kawhileonard2]

Nobody actually thinks Dirk was better than Lebron.

Sure we do as he beat Lebron without HCA and won a title before Lebron.

[Full Court]

Nobody actually thinks Dirk was better than Lebron.

He did knock Bronie forever out of the GOAT discussion though.

[ShawkFactory]

Nobody actually thinks Dirk was better than Lebron.

Yea I know I was just speaking more about the arguments than the actual conclusion. Completely separating Dirk and Lebron from the equation, people tend to use tiny examples that they remember to make points about a picture that is much larger.

[Nike D'Antoni]

"To me, he's still the best player I've ever played against in my career… I think he respected me almost more when I said, 'Listen, I've been here so long. I want to finish my career here.'"

Dirk Nowitzki on Kobe Bryant recruiting him to join the Lakers

https://twitter.com/i/status/1649218836254584832

Dirk Nowitzki says winning MVP after losing in the first round was one of the most embarrassing moments of his career

https://twitter.com/i/status/1648766480228442166


“I always say Michael Jordan is the GOAT,” Nowitzki said. “But if James really surpasses Kareem Abdul-Jabbar with the scoring record, I’m sort of running out of arguments for Michael.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U6P1PdjmmBY&ab_channel=NBAACTION

[Nike D'Antoni]

Dirk Nowitzki Walking into Manila

https://twitter.com/i/status/1652320867567714306

Lebron23 you were there?

[tpols]

Nobody actually thinks Dirk was better than Lebron


As we watched end prime dirk destroy prime lebron with less help.


https://youtu.be/cFEBvomvH0A

Yup... Dirk has no chance at being better than Lebron. Only destroyed him H2H.

Guess that didn't happen.

[ShawkFactory]

As we watched end prime dirk destroy prime lebron with less help.


https://youtu.be/cFEBvomvH0A

Yup... Dirk has no chance at being better than Lebron. Only destroyed him H2H.

Guess that didn't happen.

So Dirk was better than Lebron.

[SouBeachTalents]

So Dirk was better than Lebron.
Yes. 6 game sample sizes tell us more than 20 year careers,

[tpols]

So Dirk was better than Lebron.

What blows my mind is we can see two guys play prime for prime both superstars... one kills the other... and then people say the guy who got destroyed was easily better.

I think Dirk would've ran the table with the superstar talent Lebron has played with. Can you imagine Dirk joining up with prime Dwayne Wade or AD? He made two finals and was a hair away from winning two titles with Jason Terry as his best mate.

Lebron isn't winning with that. I'm almost certain neither is Kobe.

Dirk is on both their levels, he just didn't have the polarizing fame they had.

[SouBeachTalents]

What blows my mind is we can see two guys play prime for prime both superstars... one kills the other... and then people say the guy who got destroyed was easily better.

I think Dirk would've ran the table with the superstar talent Lebron has played with. Can you imagine Dirk joining up with prime Dwayne Wade or AD? He made two finals and was a hair away from winning two titles with Jason Terry as his best mate.

Lebron isn't winning with that. I'm almost certain neither is Kobe.

Dirk is on both their levels, he just didn't have the polarizing fame they had.
Baron Davis destroyed Dirk as the 8 seed during Dirk's MVP season. Are we reaching the same conclusion that he's on Dirk's level based off this.

I strongly suspect you will be moving the goal posts on this one :lol

[tpols]

Baron Davis destroyed Dirk as the 8 seed during Dirk's MVP season. Are we reaching the same conclusion that he's on Dirk's level based off this.

I strongly suspect you will be moving the goal posts on this one :lol

The difference is Baron Davis wasn't a superstar and that was just a 1st round win. He never did anything outside it.

Superstar vs Superstar.

If I wanted I could show Jason terry outplayed lebron in a series but I wouldn't ever claim he was an overall better player because he was an ancillary player. A fluke.

Dirk wasn't a fluke.

[Full Court]

I guess the Bronie fluffers couldn't quite muster up enough alts to stack this poll. :lol

Probably creating new ones as we speak.

[ShawkFactory]

What blows my mind is we can see two guys play prime for prime both superstars... one kills the other... and then people say the guy who got destroyed was easily better.

I think Dirk would've ran the table with the superstar talent Lebron has played with. Can you imagine Dirk joining up with prime Dwayne Wade or AD? He made two finals and was a hair away from winning two titles with Jason Terry as his best mate.

Lebron isn't winning with that. I'm almost certain neither is Kobe.

Dirk is on both their levels, he just didn't have the polarizing fame they had.

The difference between guys like Dirk and Barkley and Lebron and Magic or Bird and Kobe or evening Isiah and Robinson are minute when you actually play the games. Any of them could outplay any of the other in a given game or series.

The consistent sustained excellence is what separates some from the others. Plus a little luck.

[DMAVS41]

The difference between guys like Dirk and Barkley and Lebron and Magic or Bird and Kobe or evening Isiah and Robinson are minute when you actually play the games. Any of them could outplay any of the other in a given game or series.

The consistent sustained excellence is what separates some from the others. Plus a little luck.

Well said.

The only thing I'd add is that I don't think Thomas or Robinson, based on what my opinion of course, could lead a team to the title like the 11 Mavs...so while they could definitely outplay Dirk or any of those guys for a game or series...I don't think they were capable of doing something as impressive as Duncan in 03 or Hakeem in 94 style thing. I don't think Thomas could win a title with the 09 Lakers...etc.

So things like that...combined with the longevity you point out...go a long way for me in terms of tie breaking.

[Full Court]

The difference between guys like Dirk and Barkley and Lebron and Magic or Bird and Kobe or evening Isiah and Robinson are minute when you actually play the games. Any of them could outplay any of the other in a given game or series.

The consistent sustained excellence is what separates some from the others. Plus a little luck.

Or in Lebron's case, more help than any other superstar (except for Kobe).

[DMAVS41]

Or in Lebron's case, more help than any other superstar (except for Kobe).

Even if that was true...look at the results.

It isn't just a binary win the title or it doesn't matter. The dude has made 10 finals. That doesn't matter to you at all?

[kawhileonard2]

Even if that was true...look at the results.

It isn't just a binary win the title or it doesn't matter. The dude has made 10 finals. That doesn't matter to you at all?

Not when switching teams constantly and joining stars in there primes.

[k0kakw0rld]

I leave for a while only to comeback with the same stupid posts and posters. Insidehoops had potential but it's now full of trolls. Go outside in front of real basketball. You might get smacked for stating bs like that.

[Foster5k]

Anyone picking Dirk done lost their marbles. Actually, they never had any to being with. :oldlol::roll:

I like Dirk but aint no way he on LeBron level all time. Yall smoking crack.

[ArbitraryWater]

Anyone picking Dirk done lost their marbles. Actually, they never had any to being with. :oldlol::roll:

I like Dirk but aint no way he on LeBron level all time. Yall smoking crack.


its not even Dirk fans doing it. Its just Kobetards and lebron haters. Or ppl genuinely kidding like soubeach, overdrive, even imkobe probably.

[ShawkFactory]

Well said.

The only thing I'd add is that I don't think Thomas or Robinson, based on what my opinion of course, could lead a team to the title like the 11 Mavs...so while they could definitely outplay Dirk or any of those guys for a game or series...I don't think they were capable of doing something as impressive as Duncan in 03 or Hakeem in 94 style thing. I don't think Thomas could win a title with the 09 Lakers...etc.

So things like that...combined with the longevity you point out...go a long way for me in terms of tie breaking.

Yea there’s definitely heights that guys towards the top are capable of that dudes lower down aren’t. But if Isiah were to outplay Duncan in a random conference semifinal series one year then it wouldn’t be a surprise or a big deal.

[BallsOut]

What blows my mind is we can see two guys play prime for prime both superstars... one kills the other... and then people say the guy who got destroyed was easily better.

I think Dirk would've ran the table with the superstar talent Lebron has played with. Can you imagine Dirk joining up with prime Dwayne Wade or AD? He made two finals and was a hair away from winning two titles with Jason Terry as his best mate.

Lebron isn't winning with that. I'm almost certain neither is Kobe.

Dirk is on both their levels, he just didn't have the polarizing fame they had.

Great points. It’s easy to see why Dirk was the better basketball player. LeBron had the luxury of playing with 3 all stars most of his career while Dirk didn’t. I think most people can see that hence the poll results of this thread.

:bowdown:

[Nike D'Antoni]

Lebron is still adding accomplishments.

[Walk on Water]

Anyone picking Dirk done lost their marbles. Actually, they never had any to being with. :oldlol::roll:

I like Dirk but aint no way he on LeBron level all time. Yall smoking crack.


He beat a prime Lebron