Indiana just committed $800 million in public money to the Pacers

[eliteballer]

Yet your cable bill keeps going up so networks can pay the TV contracts and scrubs in the NBA are getting paid tens of millions..

https://www.indystar.com/story/news/politics/2019/04/12/indiana-pacers-25-year-deal-team-indy-agree-295-m-deal-over-25-years/3427430002/

[Dray n Klay]

Juicy....

[Ben Simmons 25]

Yet your cable bill keeps going up so networks can pay the TV contracts and scrubs in the NBA are getting paid tens of millions..

Meanwhile the price of your mom on the corner keeps going down. It's an unjust world, I tell ya.

[Real Men Wear Green]

Playing for stadiums is always a local political issue. Are the people of Indiana for it or against it?

[FireDavidKahn]

Then don't support the product:rolleyes:

[Kblaze8855]

Id like just once for an athlete to walk into a local meeting against this type of thing and ask if any of the people there pay as many local taxes as he does.

Of course they wont because of how easily offended poor people are when the rich tell them who pays the taxes they complain about being spent....but it would be funny.

I have a friend at work who makes 140K here AND has a second job. Hes putting 2 kids through college and taking care of a very expensive girlfriend...

He and I were talking taxes and this other guy comes up talking about some things his taxes pay for that he doesnt like.....no need to go into what...political discussion we dont need to have here. I couldnt say "I did your paperwork when you were hired. I know you dont pay taxes and that youre on food stamps because we got a tax credit to employ you."....but I was thinking it.

Poor people love bitching about taxes they barely pay. Dude pays sales tax and I guess whatever he pays for his car property taxes and the shit tacked onto the water bill. He damn sure doesnt pay income taxes and he doesnt have property taxes on a home either. Im not saying he doesnt have a right to a say in how the government spends money. Hes a citizen. He gets a vote poor or not.

Im just saying....the "My tax dollars...." argument is odd from someone making 14 thousand dollars on a part time job when I know he has no other one. 20 years old, dropout with no GED, part time, 2 kids, gave up his full time job here because it required him to be up at 4am...lives off his dad and wife who both work hard(wife a nurse...dad a mechanic). This is the guy complaining to two guys who work/are on call 70 hour weeks on the regular about his taxes being used poorly.

Again....thats fine....he has a right to an opinion about his country even if hes a lazy broke mooch....im just saying...its funny watching him argue about his tax dollars to people who pay more in taxes than he has probably ever earned in a year.

Ive heard him use the "I pay his salary" line talking about cops. The cop pays taxes on his own income...more than he does. The cop pays himself more than than guy does....

Just funny to me. Hes not a bad guy....and I try to help him out when I can. But....a lot is left unsaid just to be polite.

[Stephonit]

Id like just once for an athlete to walk into a local meeting against this type of thing and ask if any of the people there pay as many local taxes as he does.

Of course they wont because of how easily offended poor people are when the rich tell them who pays the taxes they complain about being spent....but it would be funny.

I have a friend at work who makes 140K here AND has a second job. Hes putting 2 kids through college and taking care of a very expensive girlfriend...

He and I were talking taxes and this other guy comes up talking about some things his taxes pay for that he doesnt like.....no need to go into what...political discussion we dont need to have here. I couldnt say "I did your paperwork when you were hired. I know you dont pay taxes and that youre on food stamps because we got a tax credit to employ you."....but I was thinking it.

Poor people love bitching about taxes they barely pay. Dude pays sales tax and I guess whatever he pays for his car property taxes and the shit tacked onto the water bill. He damn sure doesnt pay income taxes and he doesnt have property taxes on a home either. Im not saying he doesnt have a right to a say in how the government spends money. Hes a citizen. He gets a vote poor or not.

Im just saying....the "My tax dollars...." argument is odd from someone making 14 thousand dollars on a part time job when I know he has no other one. 20 years old, dropout with no GED, part time, 2 kids, gave up his full time job here because it required him to be up at 4am...lives off his dad and wife who both work hard(wife a nurse...dad a mechanic). This is the guy complaining to two guys who work/are on call 70 hour weeks on the regular about his taxes being used poorly.

Again....thats fine....he has a right to an opinion about his country even if hes a lazy broke mooch....im just saying...its funny watching him argue about his tax dollars to people who pay more in taxes than he has probably ever earned in a year.

Ive heard him use the "I pay his salary" line talking about cops. The cop pays taxes on his own income...more than he does. The cop pays himself more than than guy does....

Just funny to me. Hes not a bad guy....and I try to help him out when I can. But....a lot is left unsaid just to be polite.

I'm sure Marie Antoinette was more than justified to tell all those street urchins to eat cake. It was an outrage that her head ended up on the other side of the guillotine. But it doesn't matter she should have been more polite.

[Kblaze8855]

Ive read it wasnt really her who said that....not that it much matters now.

[FKAri]

Then don't support the product:rolleyes:
This. Stop buying NBA merchandise and stop paying for league pass.

Support your local streamers. :applause:

[Real Men Wear Green]

This. Stop buying NBA merchandise and stop paying for league pass.

Support your local streamers. :applause:The problem with this reply is that they are getting this 800 million through taxes, meaning people are supporting it whether they want to or not. That's why how people feel about this issue is important.

[FireDavidKahn]

This. Stop buying NBA merchandise and stop paying for league pass.

Support your local streamers. :applause:
Even if you aren't a fan of a team that is in another city who just made this decision to build a new arena...you still are supporting that team and that arena.

Every person who ever even watches 1 second of any NBA game is adding to its popularity which in turn makes it more popular which in turn increases the demand for things like this.

So OP, stop being a hypocrite.

[FireDavidKahn]

The problem with this reply is that they are getting this 800 million through taxes, meaning people are supporting it whether they want to or not. That's why how people feel about this issue is important.

No one is forcing people to support the NBA. If people really cared about this then they would take action and simply stop supporting the NBA. As the NBA grows in popularity so will demand. Every fan that watches is supporting this type of behavior even if it is indirectly.

It's like a kid who is angry at McDonalds for making them fat and yet keeps buying McDonalds.

[Norcaliblunt]

Id like just once for an athlete to walk into a local meeting against this type of thing and ask if any of the people there pay as many local taxes as he does.

Of course they wont because of how easily offended poor people are when the rich tell them who pays the taxes they complain about being spent....but it would be funny.

I have a friend at work who makes 140K here AND has a second job. Hes putting 2 kids through college and taking care of a very expensive girlfriend...

He and I were talking taxes and this other guy comes up talking about some things his taxes pay for that he doesnt like.....no need to go into what...political discussion we dont need to have here. I couldnt say "I did your paperwork when you were hired. I know you dont pay taxes and that youre on food stamps because we got a tax credit to employ you."....but I was thinking it.

Poor people love bitching about taxes they barely pay. Dude pays sales tax and I guess whatever he pays for his car property taxes and the shit tacked onto the water bill. He damn sure doesnt pay income taxes and he doesnt have property taxes on a home either. Im not saying he doesnt have a right to a say in how the government spends money. Hes a citizen. He gets a vote poor or not.

Im just saying....the "My tax dollars...." argument is odd from someone making 14 thousand dollars on a part time job when I know he has no other one. 20 years old, dropout with no GED, part time, 2 kids, gave up his full time job here because it required him to be up at 4am...lives off his dad and wife who both work hard(wife a nurse...dad a mechanic). This is the guy complaining to two guys who work/are on call 70 hour weeks on the regular about his taxes being used poorly.

Again....thats fine....he has a right to an opinion about his country even if hes a lazy broke mooch....im just saying...its funny watching him argue about his tax dollars to people who pay more in taxes than he has probably ever earned in a year.

Ive heard him use the "I pay his salary" line talking about cops. The cop pays taxes on his own income...more than he does. The cop pays himself more than than guy does....

Just funny to me. Hes not a bad guy....and I try to help him out when I can. But....a lot is left unsaid just to be polite.

Wtf does this have to do with Indiana and 800 million dollars of public money going to a sports arena?

[FKAri]

Id like just once for an athlete to walk into a local meeting against this type of thing and ask if any of the people there pay as many local taxes as he does.

Of course they wont because of how easily offended poor people are when the rich tell them who pays the taxes they complain about being spent....but it would be funny.

I have a friend at work who makes 140K here AND has a second job. Hes putting 2 kids through college and taking care of a very expensive girlfriend...

He and I were talking taxes and this other guy comes up talking about some things his taxes pay for that he doesnt like.....no need to go into what...political discussion we dont need to have here. I couldnt say "I did your paperwork when you were hired. I know you dont pay taxes and that youre on food stamps because we got a tax credit to employ you."....but I was thinking it.

Poor people love bitching about taxes they barely pay. Dude pays sales tax and I guess whatever he pays for his car property taxes and the shit tacked onto the water bill. He damn sure doesnt pay income taxes and he doesnt have property taxes on a home either. Im not saying he doesnt have a right to a say in how the government spends money. Hes a citizen. He gets a vote poor or not.

Im just saying....the "My tax dollars...." argument is odd from someone making 14 thousand dollars on a part time job when I know he has no other one. 20 years old, dropout with no GED, part time, 2 kids, gave up his full time job here because it required him to be up at 4am...lives off his dad and wife who both work hard(wife a nurse...dad a mechanic). This is the guy complaining to two guys who work/are on call 70 hour weeks on the regular about his taxes being used poorly.

Again....thats fine....he has a right to an opinion about his country even if hes a lazy broke mooch....im just saying...its funny watching him argue about his tax dollars to people who pay more in taxes than he has probably ever earned in a year.

Ive heard him use the "I pay his salary" line talking about cops. The cop pays taxes on his own income...more than he does. The cop pays himself more than than guy does....

Just funny to me. Hes not a bad guy....and I try to help him out when I can. But....a lot is left unsaid just to be polite.
Was that guy named Justin Lee Dancy by any chance?

[Kblaze8855]

Wtf does this have to do with Indiana and 800 million dollars of public money going to a sports arena?

Elite and I have had years of this discussion. The role of tax payers in local sports team financing and the complaints of the little guy.

He knows what I mean. This is like round 18.

[Real Men Wear Green]

No one is forcing people to support the NBA. If people really cared about this then they would take action and simply stop supporting the NBA. As the NBA grows in popularity so will demand. Every fan that watches is supporting this type of behavior even if it is indirectly.

It's like a kid who is angry at McDonalds for making them fat and yet keeps buying McDonalds. When a team is supported by tax dollars people are being forced to support it. Unless the tax is only on purchases at the Pacer NBA store you are misunderstanding this situation. You have no choice when it comes to taxes. The real question here is how the people of Indiana feel about it. Like any other government action.

[Shaquille O'Neal]

We went to a Pacers game in 2014 - that stadium was beautiful. No idea why they'd want/need a new one.:confusedshrug:

[Real Men Wear Green]

We went to a Pacers game in 2014 - that stadium was beautiful. No idea why they'd want/need a new one.:confusedshrug:If I could get 800 million dollars I would say anything as the reason to get that money.

[Kblaze8855]

The people they vote in seem ok with it. They paid 700 of the 800 million for the colts stadium and covered it by raising taxes on touristy things and selling colts license plates.

Not so sure the public would support it if asked directly but that’s an issue with the whole concept of a representative republic.

You don’t make direct decisions. You elect people to do it.

When the public gets to choose often they say no....then you get protests and bitching over the team leaving and the local economy taking a hit.

If you asked people directly to vote on tax expenditures half the budget goes away. What do you think the us public would vote to send in foreign aid?

People don’t see the big picture or care to try most of the time.

Pro sports is probably nothing to a place like New York but imagine how tied into the local economy the packers or Vikings are?

Case by case really.

[FireDavidKahn]

When a team is supported by tax dollars people are being forced to support it. Unless the tax is only on purchases at the Pacer NBA store you are misunderstanding this situation. You have no choice when it comes to taxes. The real question here is how the people of Indiana feel about it. Like any other government action.
Yes I get where the money is coming from but that isn't looking at the bigger picture. The more popular the NBA becomes the more and more cities will want to keep those teams which leads to situations like this.

For example, I live in Minneapolis and while I am not directly paying for the new Pacers arena I am contributing to the overall popularity of the NBA.

Look at it like this, if the NBA as a whole had half the amount of viewers/followers that it currently does do you think the cities would fight so hard to keep franchises by subsidizing their arenas? **** no. Zero chance the Pacers could have got $800 million if their fan base was cut in half or in the overall revenue of the league was half of what it is now.

The value and revenue that other teams bring in inherently increases the value of all franchises.

[Real Men Wear Green]

[quote=Kblaze8855]The people they vote in seem ok with it. They paid 700 of the 800 million for the colts stadium and covered it by raising taxes on touristy things and selling colts license plates.

Not so sure the public would support it if asked directly but that

[FireDavidKahn]

None of which makes it right. If the people of Indiana don't want to hand the Pacers this money (not a given as far as I know) then their elected leaders should do their will. We never get to elect a government that does what we want as a whole and that's even true for individual voters. That's how things have always been, I get it. But that's just a precedent, that doesn't make it right. I wonder how much the various candidates discussed publicly funding the Pacers. I really don't know anything about their local politics. Just saying that if the people were against this it shouldn't have happened.

Oh I never said it made it right but I just find the whole thing a bit ironic.

The OP is complaining that cable bills keep going up so scrubs can get paid and yet at the same time happily supports the whole system that makes situations like this a reality.

This, of course, is vastly oversimplifying a lot but if you complain about situations like this and still happily support and give the NBA your money then you are only perpetuating the problem.

Look at Seattle. They didn't give in and lost a team and now everyone complains and wants the NBA back in Seattle. I guarantee you if Seattle forked over money like this to get the NBA back in Seattle that there would hardly be any complaints.

[Real Men Wear Green]

Yes I get where the money is coming from but that isn't looking at the bigger picture. The more popular the NBA becomes the more and more cities will want to keep those teams which leads to situations like this.

For example, I live in Minneapolis and while I am not directly paying for the new Pacers arena I am contributing to the overall popularity of the NBA.

Look at it like this, if the NBA as a whole had half the amount of viewers/followers that it currently does do you think the cities would fight so hard to keep franchises by subsidizing their arenas? **** no. Zero chance the Pacers could have got $800 million if their fan base was cut in half or in the overall revenue of the league was half of what it is now.

The value and revenue that other teams bring in inherently increases the value of all franchises.And if the Pacers decide to move to Seattle because they couldn't get money from the people of Indiana then so be it. Fact remains that this is a tax, so they are being forced to support this team whether they like it or not. Everyone doesn't love the NBA, there are plenty of people in Indy that don't care about the Pacers and figure the business loss could be replaced by something else.

[FireDavidKahn]

And if the Pacers decide to move to Seattle because they couldn't get money from the people of Indiana then so be it. Fact remains that this is a tax, so they are being forced to support this team whether they like it or not. Everyone doesn't love the NBA, there are plenty of people in Indy that don't care about the Pacers and figure the business loss could be replaced by something else.
And I don't dispute any of that. The popularity of the NBA is holding cities and tax payers hostage for this money. This money could easily be better spent but the overall support and popularity of the NBA pretty much forces cities into doing this. If the popularity goes down then cities wouldn't feel so handcuffed and not essentially just hand the ridiculous amount of money over.

[iamgine]

Aren't they spending the money on the arena, which the city owns? So they are spending it on city infrastructure and not really on the Pacers.

[iamgine]

And if the Pacers decide to move to Seattle because they couldn't get money from the people of Indiana then so be it. Fact remains that this is a tax, so they are being forced to support this team whether they like it or not. Everyone doesn't love the NBA, there are plenty of people in Indy that don't care about the Pacers and figure the business loss could be replaced by something else.
That's not how tax works though. The gov may decide to build a mosque or temple that you don't want with tax. Does that mean you are forced to support this mosque and thus it's wrong?

[Stephonit]

That's not how tax works though. The gov may decide to build a mosque or temple that you don't want with tax. Does that mean you are forced to support this mosque and thus it's wrong?

Why are you talking about a mosque in a predominantly Christian country? Does the government build churches?

[Real Men Wear Green]

And I don't dispute any of that. The popularity of the NBA is holding cities and tax payers hostage for this money. This money could easily be better spent but the overall support and popularity of the NBA pretty much forces cities into doing this. If the popularity goes down then cities wouldn't feel so handcuffed and not essentially just hand the ridiculous amount of money over.That doesn't have much to do with what I'm talking about. I'm not trying to reduce the NBA's power over host cities, I'm just talking about whether or not a state government should be taxing it's people to pay for a privately owned business. It's something that citizens should have a say in and not just through some indirect method like your boycott.

[Real Men Wear Green]

That's not how tax works though. The gov may decide to build a mosque or temple that you don't want with tax. Does that mean you are forced to support this mosque and thus it's wrong?No, that is exactly how taxes work. Tax dollars are the support here so if you are paying taxes then you are supporting it. I am not saying that the tax payer likes what their taxes are supporting. That's why it's important that people get a say.

[Kblaze8855]

If you just let people directly vote on what to spend taxes on you might have a police department, fire fighters, and road crews. And maybe not the road crews. Shit you wouldnt have police either in some places. The only people safe are fire fighters.

People wouldnt vote for half the shit their officials send their money to pay for. Shit if the public could decide we might not have a congress.

A public vote would eliminate the income tax tomorrow and shut down the country in maybe 3 years.

****ed up as it is to say.....the public as a whole is too selfish to directly control the budget.

[UK2K]

Playing for stadiums is always a local political issue. Are the people of Indiana for it or against it?

Didnt even know it happened until now...

[Real Men Wear Green]

If you just let people directly vote on what to spend taxes on you might have a police department, fire fighters, and road crews. And maybe not the road crews. Shit you wouldnt have police either in some places. The only people safe are fire fighters.

People wouldnt vote for half the shit their officials send their money to pay for. Shit if the public could decide we might not have a congress.

A public vote would eliminate the income tax tomorrow and shut down the country in maybe 3 years.

****ed up as it is to say.....the public as a whole is too selfish to directly control the budget.I'm not certain that things would br that bad. This is supposed to be some kind of democracy. I know there are plenty of things the government does that I don't like and in a number of cases my opinion could change if I knew more. That certainly does not mean that democracy is invalid. It's the responsibility of people on the various sides of an issue to state their facts and make their case and it's the responsibility of the voter to listen to them and learn about the issues and then make an informed decision. It often dies not work that way but that's how this system is supposed to work. Otherwise we might as well just have kings.

[Real14]

Indiana has 800 million?:lol



Jk.:lol

[Kblaze8855]

I'm not certain that things would br that bad. This is supposed to be some kind of democracy. I know there are plenty of things the government does that I don't like and in a number of cases my opinion could change if I knew more. That certainly does not mean that democracy is invalid. It's the responsibility of people on the various sides of an issue to state their facts and make their case and it's the responsibility of the voter to listen to them and learn about the issues and then make an informed decision. It often dies not work that way but that's how this system is supposed to work. Otherwise we might as well just have kings.


The system is supposed to work just the way it does. If the people dont do what you want vote them out. Having the OPTION is the system working. People not doing it is an issue of apathy that you cant blame the system for.

And yes....a true democracy on issues of taxation would be brutal. The sticker shock of most government work would be enough to halt most everything.

You could say it would force them into more reasonable spending and it time it would...but not before the country crumbled.

The system is built to work off tax revenue that cant just be shut off without consequence and a flat democracy that let people review every little expenditure would throw countless sectors into chaos on day one.

The IRS budget would go to zero on day 1. Entire departments people barely understand the use of would be gone. You would destroy millions of jobs if only by losing federal work the people wouldnt deem required.

Im not entirely sure what the Agricultural Marketing Service does but I dont think the voters want to give them 1.4 billion a year.

A lot of things like that would be gone just off people not caring enough to see why they exist in the first place. I bet the budget drops 50-60 percent. Which it could afford to do for the record....but not without chaos that would cause a depression.

[Norcaliblunt]

The only question is whether the NBA as a whole is making enough money to help support its franchises when arenas need to be built. If they are then tax dollars should never be used. It shouldn’t be up to whether the team owner, or city has the money, but whether the NBA has it.

[eliteballer]

Id like just once for an athlete to walk into a local meeting against this type of thing and ask if any of the people there pay as many local taxes as he does.

Of course they wont because of how easily offended poor people are when the rich tell them who pays the taxes they complain about being spent....but it would be funny.

I have a friend at work who makes 140K here AND has a second job. Hes putting 2 kids through college and taking care of a very expensive girlfriend...

He and I were talking taxes and this other guy comes up talking about some things his taxes pay for that he doesnt like.....no need to go into what...political discussion we dont need to have here. I couldnt say "I did your paperwork when you were hired. I know you dont pay taxes and that youre on food stamps because we got a tax credit to employ you."....but I was thinking it.

Poor people love bitching about taxes they barely pay. Dude pays sales tax and I guess whatever he pays for his car property taxes and the shit tacked onto the water bill. He damn sure doesnt pay income taxes and he doesnt have property taxes on a home either. Im not saying he doesnt have a right to a say in how the government spends money. Hes a citizen. He gets a vote poor or not.

Im just saying....the "My tax dollars...." argument is odd from someone making 14 thousand dollars on a part time job when I know he has no other one. 20 years old, dropout with no GED, part time, 2 kids, gave up his full time job here because it required him to be up at 4am...lives off his dad and wife who both work hard(wife a nurse...dad a mechanic). This is the guy complaining to two guys who work/are on call 70 hour weeks on the regular about his taxes being used poorly.

Again....thats fine....he has a right to an opinion about his country even if hes a lazy broke mooch....im just saying...its funny watching him argue about his tax dollars to people who pay more in taxes than he has probably ever earned in a year.

Ive heard him use the "I pay his salary" line talking about cops. The cop pays taxes on his own income...more than he does. The cop pays himself more than than guy does....

Just funny to me. Hes not a bad guy....and I try to help him out when I can. But....a lot is left unsaid just to be polite.

Except the players and owner aren't the only ones. or even the bulk of the taxes paying for it...Indiana state taxpayers as a whole.

Most state money is also via sales tax, the vast bulk of which isn't coming from the top 1%.

As far as being a representative democracy, yeah in THEORY...ever heard of lobbying, pork barrel spending, or straight up corruption?

You seem to think the wealthy and corporations play by the rules and pay "their fair share"....we all know thats not remotely true because of the access they have to politicians who legislate laws and regulations to be tilted in their favor.

The fact that Amazon posted an $18 billion profit and paid little to no federal tax should tell you that.

[Norcaliblunt]

And as if

[Kblaze8855]

The jock tax and state taxes alone for just the pacers players spread over the time they just signed to extend the lease in Indy? Its about 175 million dollars JUST from the Pacers players salaries in state not counting property taxes or the sales taxes on their no doubt massive purchases. And thats if the salary cap doesnt go up...which it will. Its likely closer to 200 million. Plus 65 million from private investors. The number you posted isnt just handed to the Pacers. Part of it is infrastructure improvements around it because as you chose not to point out...the arena is owned by the city.

The Pacers dont own the building. They lease it. They are leasing it for 325 million over the life of the current contract. The building is used for 1000 things. They host world tours. Pink, Ariana Grande, Carrie Underwood, Celene Dion, Elton john, John Mayer, and the Backstreet boys are coming this year.

What do you think tickets cost to see Elton John on his supposed final tour?

Lets see...

Cheapest in the house? 303 dollars. Gate will be over 7 million dollars for one night not counting parking and vendors. I suspect the city finds a way to get a piece.

The city is getting bread.



According to a study by the IU Public Policy Institute, the economic impact of Pacers Sports & Entertainment, including events at Bankers Life Fieldhouse, totaled $370 million in 2018. Pacers Sports & Entertainment is also responsible for more than 4,000 jobs resulting in $152 million in annual wages. In 2017 Bankers Life Fieldhouse hosted 550-plus sporting and non-sporting events that generated 15 million in annual taxes.

Forget the thousands of jobs and 152 million in wages paid to the residents of the city. Forget the 370 million in total events. Add just that 15 million in taxes up over the 25 year lease......to the 325 million lease price...the 200 million Pacer players will pay in local taxes....not even accounting for 41 games a year of road player jock tax which is more millions over this span....


Try to figure out why the city accountants signed off on the deal.

This is like when you were talking about the 49ers stadium and ignoring that the 800 million the city "paid" was just a loan from 2 banks that the 49ers were paying back with the lease payments which paid it off early while the city got to use the park for thousands of other events. The money didnt come from existing accounts. It was borrowed under the condition the lease payments more than covered the payments...which they did.

Its just a poor lack of understanding about where these vast sums of money come from. And I dont mean you personally...its reported poorly.

People hear some big sum of money and think it came out of some city account. More often than not its the team using a city credit line and paying it off with interest as everyone eats.

[Dro]

No comment, thats all I'll say..

[eliteballer]

The jock tax and state taxes alone for just the pacers players spread over the time they just signed to extend the lease in Indy? Its about 175 million dollars JUST from the Pacers players salaries in state not counting property taxes or the sales taxes on their no doubt massive purchases. And thats if the salary cap doesnt go up...which it will. Its likely closer to 200 million. Plus 65 million from private investors. The number you posted isnt just handed to the Pacers. Part of it is infrastructure improvements around it because as you chose not to point out...the arena is owned by the city.

The Pacers dont own the building. They lease it. They are leasing it for 325 million over the life of the current contract. The building is used for 1000 things. They host world tours. Pink, Ariana Grande, Carrie Underwood, Celene Dion, Elton john, John Mayer, and the Backstreet boys are coming this year.

What do you think tickets cost to see Elton John on his supposed final tour?

Lets see...

Cheapest in the house? 303 dollars. Gate will be over 7 million dollars for one night not counting parking and vendors. I suspect the city finds a way to get a piece.

The city is getting bread.




Forget the thousands of jobs and 152 million in wages paid to the residents of the city. Forget the 370 million in total events. Add just that 15 million in taxes up over the 25 year lease......to the 325 million lease price...the 200 million Pacer players will pay in local taxes....not even accounting for 41 games a year of road player jock tax which is more millions over this span....


Try to figure out why the city accountants signed off on the deal.

This is like when you were talking about the 49ers stadium and ignoring that the 800 million the city "paid" was just a loan from 2 banks that the 49ers were paying back with the lease payments which paid it off early while the city got to use the park for thousands of other events. The money didnt come from existing accounts. It was borrowed under the condition the lease payments more than covered the payments...which they did.

Its just a poor lack of understanding about where these vast sums of money come from. And I dont mean you personally...its reported poorly.

People hear some big sum of money and think it came out of some city account. More often than not its the team using a city credit line and paying it off with interest as everyone eats.

Where is a huge portion of that money coming from?

Who's paying for a portion of those salaries through tickets, cable bills, merchandise etc?

Who's buying tickets to the games/concerts/events?

Who's buying the concessions?

Who's spending money in the bars?

I haven't crunched all the numbers.......but if you're asking me to give the deal the benefit of the doubt...I can't given the research says otherwise:

www.pbs.org/newshour/amp/nation/public-money-used-build-sports-stadiums

www.brookings.edu/articles/sports-jobs-taxes-are-new-stadiums-worth-the-cost/


It's like the US military aid package to Israel Obama signed before leaving office. It mandates all of the military aid going forward must be spent on US defense company contracts..

So the money is "coming back" to the States...but who's profiting? The same people who funnel in and out of government positions and defense contractors. Not the taxpayers.

[90sgoat]

Good lord Kblaze, you have the understanding of taxes of Ayn Rand.

Here's an example.

Let's say it costs $100.000 to go to a Pacers game.

10 people go to the game.

Pacers pay taxes on $1.000.000

Did the Pacers actually produce anything worth that?

No.

Who produces what the rich pay taxes on? The workers.

[Kblaze8855]

We really having the chicken and the egg argument on the issue of producer vs consumer? Really?

Yes...someone has to buy a product. And someone has to produce it too.

Minus the people who produce...the people who purchase dont have jobs to buy products...and on and on the wheel rolls.

Once its set in motion by the fact that you have a product the public wants its all a word game.

Someone buying a product from you doesnt mean you owe them the money they paid for it. Thats what a purchase is. 2 hours of entertainment for 100 bucks. Deal complete.

Nobody owes anyone anything when its done.

Talking about did the pacers produce anything...

They produced enjoyment which the people purchased at the going rate. If the people didnt think it was worth the price...then they wouldnt pay. Be it entertainment, corn, beer, or blowjobs. A product is worth what the public will pay for it.

[iamgine]

No, that is exactly how taxes work. Tax dollars are the support here so if you are paying taxes then you are supporting it. I am not saying that the tax payer likes what their taxes are supporting. That's why it's important that people get a say.
Because you said:


Everyone doesn't love the NBA, there are plenty of people in Indy that don't care about the Pacers

Well, there are also plenty of people that don't care about having mosque, bridge, park, road that's not near them. Yet the gov just build it.

[305Baller]

oh wait until the robots take over all of the construction jobs due to 3d printing. we are going to need a universal income and other things.... if its done right it can be bliss

[305Baller]

workers rule. the shit will go down.

[305Baller]

the elite must share the ball