How do 90's/mj haters explain Patrick Beverly shutting down kd?

[Bronbron23]

This era's best scorer can't handle a 6 foot physical throwback defender who's not even on a great defensive team. Imagine how much trouble he'd have with GP, the 90's Knicks or bad boy pistons.

Oh well there goes that narrative:facepalm

[SamuraiSWISH]

And he’s so tiny a “midget” or “milkman” if you were.

Defense like that is about lateral quickness, angles, physicality, and mental toughness.

I’ve seen KD struggle with guys way smaller than him. Beverely, Allen, CP3. In the playoffs when they allow slightly more physicality and the pace slows down.

If Beverely gives issues those 90s Bulls would give these Warriors absolute guts on defense.

[SpaceJam2]

Oh we've known since at least 1996 that 6'1 guards are the toughest people to play against.

Jordan confirmed that a long time ago when he shot 41% and had a lower game score and PER than Shawn Kemp, so what are you asking

[STATUTORY]

Patrick Beverley held Lebron James scoreless for over 23 possessions just a few months ago (https://stats.nba.com/game/0021800958/matchups/?OFF_PLAYER_ID=2544&DEF_PLAYER_ID=201976)

let that sink in

the "midgets" would have feasted on Bran's fragile ego in the 90s

[Manny98]

Patrick Beverley held Lebron James scoreless for over 23 possessions just a few months ago (https://stats.nba.com/game/002180095...AYER_ID=201976)

let that sink in

the "midgets" would have feasted on Bran's fragile ego in the 90s
Page not found stop lying

LeBron would never get shut down by a midget :oldlol:

[FKAri]

How do 90's/mj lovers explain Patrick Beverly shutting down kd?



This era's midget defender can handle a 7 foot scoring wizard who's on the greatest offensive team. Imagine how much trouble he'd give MJ, the 90's Jazz or sonics.

Oh well there goes that narrative :facepalm

[SpaceJam2]

How do 90's/mj lovers explain Patrick Beverly shutting down kd?



This era's midget defender can handle a 7 foot scoring wizard who's on the greatest offensive team. Imagine how much trouble he'd give MJ, the 90's Jazz or sonics.

Oh well there goes that narrative :facepalm

The memes write themselves :lol :applause:

[SpaceJam2]

Oh we've known since at least 1996 that 6'1 guards are the toughest people to play against.

Jordan confirmed that a long time ago when he shot 41% and had a lower game score and PER than Shawn Kemp, so what are you asking

Anyone? Seems quiet all of a sudden...

[Bronbron23]

Oh we've known since at least 1996 that 6'1 guards are the toughest people to play against.

Jordan confirmed that along time ago when he shot 41% and had a lower game score and PER than Shawn Kemp, so what are you asking
I'm not asking anything. I'm just stating exactly what you just said pretty much.

[AlternativeAcc.]

Imagine KD playing in a league where it's illegal to play zone :lol

Would average 40ppg eazy

[SamuraiSWISH]

Beverely is like a crackhead version of John Starks ...

Without the jumper

Or the athleticism

and is shorter

[SpaceJam2]

Imagine KD playing in a league where it's illegal to play zone :lol

Would average 40ppg eazy

Jesus

50, easily

It would be like Wilt #s all over.

Illegal zone + milk men and auto mechanics out on the wing defending 1-on-1
Sheeesh.

[bigkingsfan]

Beverely is like a crackhead version of John Starks ...

Without the jumper

Or the athleticism

and is shorter

Starks was an undrafted grocery bagger.

[SpaceJam2]

I'm not asking anything. I'm just stating exactly what you just said pretty much.

Well like I said I think we all learned in 1996 Finals about the impact of 6'1, 150-pound guards.

MJ showed us
41% FG :(
Kemp had a higher Game Score and PER than MJ :(

This was for an entire SERIES too, not just 1 game :eek:

[SamuraiSWISH]

Starks was an undrafted grocery bagger.
And then an NBA Starter for a 60+ win team as a main contributor ...

PB bounced around in terrible pro leagues in Europe that Starks might not have been willing to go do ... or even available to do back then.

What does it matter what he was before if he became something good in the best professional basketball league?

Clearly him being undrafted was a mistake.

[Bronbron23]

Well like I said I think we all learned in 1996 Finals about the impact of 6'1, 150-pound guards.

MJ showed us
41% FG :(
Kemp had a higher Game Score and PER than MJ :(

This was for an entire SERIES too, not just 1 game :eek:
Yup it wasn't mj's best series but Bev is no Gary Payton. In size or defensive ability. Also Mj was just starting his decline and kd is in his prime right now but that's all beside the point. The point was as you said is that size really doesn't matter when it comes to perimeter defence so this narrative that mj was only dominant because he went up against 6 foot defenders is now destroyed.

For one it's not true he went up against plenty of bigger guys and two as you said shorter faster perimeter defenders are just as effective if not more.

[SpaceJam2]

Yup it wasn't mj's best series but Bev is no Gary Payton. In size or defensive ability. Also Mj was just starting his decline and kd is in his prime right now but that's all beside the point. The point was as you said is that size really doesn't matter when it comes to perimeter defence so this narrative that mj was only dominant because he went up against 6 foot defenders is now destroyed.

For one it's not true he went up against plenty of bigger guys and two as you said shorter faster perimeter defenders are just as effective if not more.

MJ gave all 6'1, 140 lb guards hope that they could make it in the NBA. He was the pioneer of promoting 6'1 defensive guards

[Hey Yo]

And then an NBA Starter for a 60+ win team as a main contributor ...

PB bounced around in terrible pro leagues in Europe that Starks might not have been willing to go do ... or even available to do back then.

What does it matter what he was before if he became something good in the best professional basketball league?

Clearly him being undrafted was a mistake.
High amount of wins due to the league being watered down as fvck + expansion teams.

Very misleading era of basketball.

[SpaceJam2]

High amount of wins due to the league being watered down as fvck + expansion teams.

Very misleading era of basketball.

100% one of the weakest eras and weakest ABA/NBA merger

[Bronbron23]

MJ gave all 6'1, 140 lb guards hope that they could make it in the NBA. He was the pioneer of promoting 6'1 defensive guards
Now see you should of just kept coming with decent factual arguments but now you lost me with this b.s

[Bronbron23]

High amount of wins due to the league being watered down as fvck + expansion teams.

Very misleading era of basketball.
Ok so where are the crazy good teams now then. I don't see anything special. The west is the better conference and it's a joke outside of the warriors and maybe the rockets. Even the rockets wouldn't be anything special in the 90's. Cp is a shell of himself and Scottie pip already gave the blueprint on how to gaurd harden. Don't even get me started with the east.

[SpaceJam2]

Now see you should of just kept coming with decent factual arguments but now you lost me with this b.s

Well isn't this true?
He let Shawn Kemp out play him and he let Gary Payton lock him up. He gave hope to lesser individuals

[Bronbron23]

Well isn't this true?
He let Shawn Kemp out play him and he let Gary Payton lock him up. He gave hope to lesser individuals
So because of one bad offensive series(was still a beast defensively)he gave hope to ather players? Dude you could literally do that for any player. I could do that with Bron probably more than anyone but I won't because that's just dumb and you know it.

[Overdrive]

Add CP3 and Tony Allen.

[superduper]

Well isn't this true?
He let Shawn Kemp out play him and he let Gary Payton lock him up. He gave hope to lesser individuals

Just like LeGOAT gave hope/chips/FMVPs to lesser players like:

-Jason Terry
-JJ Barea
-Boris Diaw
-Andre Iguodala

And greater players like:

-Kevin Durant
-Steph Curry
-Tim Duncan
-Kawhi Leonard

?

[superduper]

Also LOL at Bran stans trying to spin this.

Excellent thread premise OP :applause:

[LostCause]

Imagine KD playing in a league where it's illegal to play zone :lol

Would average 40ppg eazy

Real Zone is still illegal to play in the NBA

Defensive 3 seconds is another name for illegal defense.

If you mean zone based defenses, well those were played by many 90s/80s teams, regardless

[Overdrive]

Imagine KD playing in a league where it's illegal to play zone :lol

Would average 40ppg eazy

KD premier skill is shooting. You know what works best against zone defenses?

Aside from NBA zone only being a half assed version.

[Phoenix]

Now see you should of just kept coming with decent factual arguments but now you lost me with this b.s

You didn't think that clown was talking to you in earnest, did you?

[Big164]

Well isn't this true?
He let Shawn Kemp out play him and he let Gary Payton lock him up. He gave hope to lesser individuals




Lebron let Jason Terry lock him up and lost the finals!


Mj has never lost a finals.

[SpaceJam2]

You didn't think that clown was talking to you in earnest, did you?

I know facts can hurt you. I'm sorry about that

[PickernRoller]

Just like Tony Allen locked him up a while back.

After 2010 the league has been going softer and softer defensively with each year.

[Phoenix]

I know facts can hurt you. I'm sorry about that

As soon as you present one that does, I'll let you know. At 65 posts a day ( on this account) I figure one of these years you'll say something remotely intelligent.

[superduper]

As soon as you present one that does, I'll let you know. At 65 posts a day ( on this account) I figure one of these years you'll say something remotely intelligent.

http://i.imgur.com/GpLtCWM.gifhttp://i.imgur.com/GpLtCWM.gif

[Mr.GOAT2408]

Never understand that argument. I also don't think anyone should find the argument that the late 90s were the weakest talent wise since the late 70s to be controversial or even anti-MJ, doesn't change the fact that the early 90s were some of the best points in league history and yet MJ went 3-3 and completely dominated against physical defenders in an era where no one cared about analytics and where toughness and interior play reigned supreme.

I like KD and he would be an elite scorer in any era but he's lucky he plays in today's NBA


As soon as you present one that does, I'll let you know. At 65 posts a day ( on this account) I figure one of these years you'll say something remotely intelligent.
:eek: :eek: :eek:

[SpaceJam2]

As soon as you present one that does, I'll let you know. At 65 posts a day ( on this account) I figure one of these years you'll say something remotely intelligent.

Seething MJ stan

:roll: :roll:

[Phoenix]

Seething MJ stan

:roll: :roll:

Nope still nothing intelligent, 1900+ posts and counting. Keep trying....

[SpaceJam2]

Nope still nothing intelligent, 1900+ posts and counting. Keep trying....

Ditto

Also: seething :lol

[sdot_thadon]

Aside from what's being proposed i guess Op hasn't watched much basketball from Kd lately. There's something obviously going on with Kd right now. In roughly the last month he has more games with single digit shot attempts than he does games with 15 shot attempts. So the Pat Bev thing is really secondary to whatever is really going on. Power struggle? Checked out early? Draymond's comments? This could be so much better of a thread if it wasn't troll bait. And someone else mentioned other small defenders having similar "success" on Kd previously. I remember Dirk, another tall, soft perimeter scorer having similar difficulties when he was mostly perimeter oriented as well. But let's not turn this into an actual topic ya know.......

[Phoenix]

Ditto

Also: seething :lol

Seeking intelligence in this post:

https://webhostingmedia.net/wp-content/uploads/2018/01/http-error-404-not-found.png

Nope, not yet.

Also: you're a fakkit and your parents are siblings :lol

[Manny98]

Seething MJ stan

:roll: :roll:
:roll:

[superduper]

Nope still nothing intelligent, 1900+ posts and counting. Keep trying....

:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

[ImKobe]

Aside from what's being proposed i guess Op hasn't watched much basketball from Kd lately. There's something obviously going on with Kd right now. In roughly the last month he has more games with single digit shot attempts than he does games with 15 shot attempts. So the Pat Bev thing is really secondary to whatever is really going on. Power struggle? Checked out early? Draymond's comments? This could be so much better of a thread if it wasn't troll bait. And someone else mentioned other small defenders having similar "success" on Kd previously. I remember Dirk, another tall, soft perimeter scorer having similar difficulties when he was mostly perimeter oriented as well. But let's not turn this into an actual topic ya know.......

Obviously he's not being "shut down", he didn't take only 8 shots because he was getting locked up, he made 5 out of 8 with 11 out of 12 from the FT line, that's a pretty standard stat line for him in a blowout win (which it was supposed to be).

He's passive in this series because it works and it's a good strategy to have with the team he has around him, it's their defense that's a huge issue this season and why they would allow the biggest comeback.

[Overdrive]

And someone else mentioned other small defenders having similar "success" on Kd previously. I remember Dirk, another tall, soft perimeter scorer having similar difficulties when he was mostly perimeter oriented as well. But let's not turn this into an actual topic ya know.......

That's because shooters are more bothered if you can keep them from their spots than sticking a hand in their face at theirs. So quicker smaller guys with active hands are prone to defend shooters well.

[TheCorporation]

Seething MJ stan

:roll: :roll:

:roll: :roll:

[Bronbron23]

Aside from what's being proposed i guess Op hasn't watched much basketball from Kd lately. There's something obviously going on with Kd right now. In roughly the last month he has more games with single digit shot attempts than he does games with 15 shot attempts. So the Pat Bev thing is really secondary to whatever is really going on. Power struggle? Checked out early? Draymond's comments? This could be so much better of a thread if it wasn't troll bait. And someone else mentioned other small defenders having similar "success" on Kd previously. I remember Dirk, another tall, soft perimeter scorer having similar difficulties when he was mostly perimeter oriented as well. But let's not turn this into an actual topic ya know.......
How is it troll bait? What exactly was I trolling?

[sdot_thadon]

Obviously he's not being "shut down", he didn't take only 8 shots because he was getting locked up, he made 5 out of 8 with 11 out of 12 from the FT line, that's a pretty standard stat line for him in a blowout win (which it was supposed to be).

He's passive in this series because it works and it's a good strategy to have with the team he has around him, it's their defense that's a huge issue this season and why they would allow the biggest comeback.
I'd agree totally if his past month didn't look eerily similar.


That's because shooters are more bothered if you can keep them from their spots than sticking a hand in their face at theirs. So quicker smaller guys with active hands are prone to defend shooters well.
That and the hands being right in their pocket when they gather to shoot and short guys with quick hands are murder to tall guys trying to handle the ball. KD's always had this problem it's just the way they officiate him changed once he was recognized as a top tier star.

[sdot_thadon]

How is it troll bait? What exactly was I trolling?
Because the topic was decent on it's own merit without the mismatching Mj slant/troll response. Kd hasn't been agressive offensively for like a month now. Worst thing about it is what you didn't see while crafting that op.

Let's shift perspective a bit; Pat Bev(i couldn't stand him even when he played for my team) is probably the best at making offensive players physically uncomfortable in an era where you supposedly can't even touch guys. He has a pitbull mentality.

How do we figure he's anything less than an elite defender if he was allowed to legally molest offensive players more than he already does? I ask because the op gave me the impression that Pat Bev isn't a good defender?

[Bronbron23]

Because the topic was decent on it's own merit without the mismatching Mj slant/troll response. Kd hasn't been agressive offensively for like a month now. Worst thing about it is what you didn't see while crafting that op.

Let's shift perspective a bit; Pat Bev(i couldn't stand him even when he played for my team) is probably the best at making offensive players physically uncomfortable in an era where you supposedly can't even touch guys. He has a pitbull mentality.

How do we figure he's anything less than an elite defender if he was allowed to legally molest offensive players more than he already does? I ask because the op gave me the impression that Pat Bev isn't a good defender?
Kd has been fine the last month. You act like he's totally fell off or something. He's obviously not as committed to the warriors as he was before the whole Draymond incident but he's still a competitor. You think kd is just gonna not try after some little annoying nucka is all up in his shit? If anything that's gonna motivate him to try harder.

And I never said Beverly isnt a good defender. He's a great defender. He's more of a throwback though. There were lots of guys like him in the 80's and 90's. One of the reasons he so good is he plays that style of defence in an era that has gotten a little soft.

And the mj/90's thing was to highlight to the mj/90 haters that there off base with there narrative that if kd or LeBron or whoever played in the 90's against 6 footers like Gary payton they would be way better.

[RRR3]

Kd has been fine the last month. You act like he's totally fell off or something. He's obviously not as committed to the warriors as he was before the whole Draymond incident but he's still a competitor. You think kd is just gonna not try after some little annoying nucka is all up in his shit? If anything that's gonna motivate him to try harder.

And I never said Beverly isnt a good defender. He's a great defender. He's more of a throwback though. There were lots of guys like him in the 80's and 90's. One of the reasons he so good is he plays that style of defence in an era that has gotten a little soft.

And the mj/90's thing was to highlight to the mj/90 haters that there off base with there narrative that if kd or LeBron or whoever played in the 90's against 6 footers like Gary payton they would be way better.
I mean I wouldn’t feel comfortable putting Beverley on LeBron if I was Doc...

[Bronbron23]

[QUOTE=RRR3]I mean I wouldn

[RRR3]

Neither wood I. Bev is tough and LeBron has showed that smaller players can bother him
When? :oldlol:


You can’t guard LeBron in the post with smaller players. When the wizards tried that with Wall, LeBron had 57.

[Bronbron23]

[QUOTE=RRR3]When? :oldlol:


You can

[RRR3]

That's the thing though LeBron barely goes in the post. We've seen smaller players give him trouble on the perimeter. Shoot even Steph curry bothers LeBron on the perimeter and he's no where near Beverly as a defender
:biggums:


Curry giving LeBron problems? :roll:


Why doesn’t Kerr put Curry on him then?

Lol at LeBron barely going in the post too.

[Bronbron23]

[QUOTE=RRR3]:biggums:


Curry giving LeBron problems? :roll:


Why doesn

[RRR3]

On the perimeter weirdly enough yes. I'm a Bron fan and have yelled at the tv countless times over the last however many finals about this. When LeBron is matched up against curry on the perimeter he has a hard time scoring on him. In the last couple of finals I noticed sometimes he won't even bothering attacking him. He'll give it up even if there's no double coming.
LeBron definitely had trouble scoring in the last few finals. Excellent analysis.

[Bronbron23]

[QUOTE=RRR3]:biggums:


Curry giving LeBron problems? :roll:


Why doesn

[Bronbron23]

LeBron definitely had trouble scoring in the last few finals. Excellent analysis.
When matched up against curry actually yes. I'm not a curry either btw but it doesn't make it any less true

https://www.google.ca/amp/s/www.theringer.com/platform/amp/nba/2018/6/8/17441998/lebron-james-steph-curry-mismatch-2018-nba-finals

[RRR3]

You have obviously chosen to ignore this though. Denial is a powerful tool. Don't take my word for it though.
https://www.google.ca/amp/s/www.theringer.com/platform/amp/nba/2018/6/8/17441998/lebron-james-steph-curry-mismatch-2018-nba-finals
Cherry picked stats from a small sample size don’t prove much. Especially when LeBron is worrying about Draymond or KD or someone helping on a play. If you’re saying LeBron should stop taking jumper with Curry on him, yeah definitely. If you’re saying Curry has a prayer of guarding LeBron in the post you’re delusional.

[Bronbron23]

[QUOTE=RRR3]Cherry picked stats from a small sample size don

[Elosha]

Page not found stop lying

LeBron would never get shut down by a midget :oldlol:

Well I guess we'll find out when they face off in the next round! Oh wait...

[SpaceJam2]

https://i.postimg.cc/8krqsSKd/Pipbatman.jpg

[Bronbron23]

https://i.postimg.cc/8krqsSKd/Pipbatman.jpg
Actually mj has more assists per game in regular season and in playoffs. In the championship runs you refer to Michael actually had more assists in 91 and in 93 and had more assists than pip in the playoffs the 3 years before that so your wrong there. Pip had a couple more rebounds a game but 2 extra rebounds a game hardly makes up for the 15 extra points mj scored a game on better efficiency. You have no idea what your talking about man:facepalm

[3ball]

How do 90's/mj lovers explain Patrick Beverly shutting down kd?



This era's midget defender can handle a 7 foot scoring wizard who's on the greatest offensive team. Imagine how much trouble he'd give MJ, the 90's Jazz or sonics.

Oh well there goes that narrative :facepalm
But he has bird legs.. so no power

He can't drop-step to overpower the little man like the goat here (https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=n8DP6Ga9m2s&t=03m40s)

MJ would go for that every time down and would target the little man where he's weak - inside and shooting over him.. Unfortunately, Durant has never been an overpowering player like MJ or lebron, so it's a weakness compared to them, and he lacks the repertoire to shoot over beverly EVERYTIME like MJ or Kobe would

It would be a "bad shot" and unexpected for durant to catch the ball and shoot a turnaround without dribbling - he doesn't have the skill to get that shot in the myriad of ways MJ/Kobe did, so it would look like a bad shot if durant tried to shoot turnarounds on Beverly - it's not his game and he doesn't know how to dominate as a post player. Durant would actually suck in a previous era