I don

[Walk on Water]

I had a friend text me about whether I thought about where I

[MrFonzworth]

Reported

[RoseCity07]

They aren't. They're just scared to die and need reassurance.

[Walk on Water]

They aren't. They're just scared to die and need reassurance.


The ones I know tell me it

[coin24]

If you think christians are so sure of there beliefs then what do you call muslims???

[kennethgriffen]

i'm 50/50 on whether or not we went to the moon still... theres a bunch of evidence for and against it.



so imagine believing we went to the moon prior to the invention of flight




thats the mind of a religious person

[BuGzBuNNy]

For the first 20 or so years of my life I doubt I had ever even considered the possibility that Christianity was not true. It just didn't occur to me. I sometimes wish I could go back and take notes to figure out what eventually convinced me otherwise. It wasn't an exact moment but it'd be cool to go back and appreciate the process.

[kennethgriffen]

For the first 20 or so years of my life I doubt I had ever even considered the possibility that Christianity was not true. It just didn't occur to me. I sometimes wish I could go back and take notes to figure out what eventually convinced me otherwise. It wasn't an exact moment but it'd be cool to go back and appreciate the process.


simple...its when you become fully aware



i also believed in catholicism until around age 20. then i became agnostic


thats why 21 is the legal drinking age in the US. 19 in canada, 18 to have sex etc...


its around that age that our brains fully develop and we start questioning things. until then we are easly led and easly manipulated because our brains are less developed


inbreeding is why most muslims are die hard religious people. they also suffer from the same mental illness as under developed children.

[coin24]

simple...its when you become fully aware



i also believed in catholicism until around age 20. then i became agnostic


thats why 21 is the legal drinking age in the US. 19 in canada, 18 to have sex etc...


its around that age that our brains fully develop and we start questioning things. until then we are easly led and easly manipulated because our brains are less developed


inbreeding is why most muslims are die hard religious people. they also suffer from the same mental illness as under developed children.

Generally it's the poorer countries and villagers/ uneducated people that are the religious fanatics.
They relate everything to gods and fate.

There is no questioning, they are bombarded with it since the day they are born.

[Patrick Chewing]

What’s more believable? An afterlife where you get to be reunited with dead relatives?

Or 72 virgins?

[Bimbo Coles]

We are not programmed to know death, that is... we are not programmed to accept the finality of it. Even if you were to believe that your energy will transfer and continue (this too is a coping mechanism against the anxiety associated with death), you will not. Your memories, your knowledge, your experiences. It is the ultimate death: the end of the ego. These belief systems are a last gasp effort to grab onto something in the face of the inevitable end. These people have merely tricked themselves into choosing an illusion, any illusion, over reality.

[Prometheus]

If you believe in the atheistic view and no longer question it, then you are just as foolish as the religious fundamentalist.

It is very important to reach the point of "I don't know" before getting anywhere of value.

[AlternativeAcc.]

Warriorfan making up conversations and giving the old "religion dont make sense" spiel like a 13 year old who just became woke. :oldlol:



Yikes

[Terahite]

Warriorfan making up conversations and giving the old "religion dont make sense" spiel like a 13 year old who just became woke. :oldlol:



Yikes

:roll: :roll: :roll:

[Draz]

I'd spend eternity browsing ish

[iamgine]

[QUOTE=Walk on Water]I had a friend text me about whether I thought about where I

[Walk on Water]

Another thing I don’t understand. What’s the obsession of studying? Once you’re saved, you’re saved right? Why would you worship if you’re saved?

And why would you need to be tormented for sin? I have asked this question numerous times and have gotten some answers. I still don’t get it. You sinned. So what? Now punishment depends on if I believe in something? Isn’t that silly?

Why do they call themselves seekers of truth? They seem to just believe what they want.

[Smoke117]

You mean to tell me that believing there is some boogeyman hiding up above our heads in the clouds that cares about what we do is insane? Well...color me surprised. :lol

[Walk on Water]

You mean to tell me that believing there is some boogeyman hiding up above our heads in the clouds that cares about what we do is insane? Well...color me surprised. :lol

Not only do some believe but they consider it fact.

[iamgine]

[QUOTE=Walk on Water]Another thing I don

[ZenMaster]

In a general sense when growing up, whatever your parents and the people around you tell you is real, is what you more than likely will believe as the brain is a sponge at that point.

[Prometheus]

It is like asking, why do human need to breathe, or eat, or sleep. Why should we grow old? Why are the law of physics the way they are? Why can't we just fly and go through dimensions.

We don't decide these things.

Terrible comparison. Those are all constraints of the physical world, and are absolute. If you don't eat, sleep, or breathe, you will die.

The things he was talking about are choices that people make, and ways of living in which people engage. They could stop tomorrow and be fine.

You are religious because your rational faculties are too poor to lift you out of your superstition.

[JEFFERSON MONEY]

God is not a boogeyman.
God is The Creator---unlike His Creation.

Islam believes in an Afterlife where the saved are reunited with their loved ones among other things.

Since the beginning of man there were believers and non believers. Believers are forbidden to lie.


To the people clowning on religion. Find the answers to three following. Who is God? What is the purpose of life?

Study hard and pray for guidance.

[iamgine]

Terrible comparison. Those are all constraints of the physical world, and are absolute. If you don't eat, sleep, or breathe, you will die.

Yeah but why are things like that? Why are the physical constraints the way they are?

That is essentially what he asked.

[TheMan]

You mean to tell me that believing there is some boogeyman hiding up above our heads in the clouds that cares about what we do is insane? Well...color me surprised. :lol
No Christian literally believes God lives in the clouds you heathen.

[Prometheus]

People say "heathen"?

[TheMan]

People say "heathen"?
Yeah, you got a problem with that?

[Prometheus]

No I don't, it's f*cking hysterical :oldlol:

[TheMan]

No I don't, it's f*cking hysterical :oldlol:
:cheers:

https://youtu.be/tgVWJDL3hoE

[JEFFERSON MONEY]

[QUOTE=Walk on Water]I had a friend text me about whether I thought about where I

[JEFFERSON MONEY]

No Christian literally believes God lives in the clouds you heathen.

Exactly.

It is very irritating when people have the strangest notions of The Almighty.

[Rolando]

I am starting to think that belief in God is a built-in evolutionary consequence of self awareness. Humans need this to take the edge off. Otherwise, the reality of life is pretty harsh.

It is a fact that people who truly believe their religion are generally happier than their non-believing counterparts.

So, there's a large percentage of humans who simply believe and reap the psychological benefits of it. There's also a small percentage of us who simply don't have faith.....if we are indeed honest with ourselves. We are looking at life in its un-varnished state. We have to handle the intensity of our existence with the burden of full consciousness. It isn't always wonderful but that's the path that I must take.

I am true to myself. I have never had faith.

[JEFFERSON MONEY]

I am starting to think that belief in God is a built-in evolutionary consequence of self awareness. Humans need this to take the edge off. Otherwise, the reality of life is pretty harsh.

The reality of burning in Hellfire eternally is much much harsher. Actually, it is said that disbelievers on the Day of Judgment will wish they were dust (i.e. non-existent---rather than live sinful lives without repenting and ending up in Hell) But that's not the point.

The question is:
Does God exist or not?

That's a question that's going to take a lot of thought. Look up at the skies and the grass and the rivers and the mountains for a long period of time. Really think. How was this made?

I dare you do that for just 20 minutes focused, and being completely honest--- your innate soul will come to the conclusion of One Divine Creator.



It is a fact that people who truly believe their religion are generally happier than their non-believing counterparts.

True, studies back this up and nearly every civilization since the beginning has some way of worship.

The feeling of peace and serenity within their heart comes with surrendering to God Almighty's Will and abiding by His laws. The dreadful pain and tightness and anxiety and nagging stress and demoralized spirit comes with disobeying God Almighty.



So, there's a large percentage of humans who simply believe and reap the psychological benefits of it.

There are certainly great psychological benefits, but even greater spiritual benefits. And no it's not a large percentage. Believers are a minority.



There's also a small percentage of us who simply don't have faith.....if we are indeed honest with ourselves.

How have you lived your life so far? Have you ever reached out and asked God for guidance and faith, sincerely?

Would it make ANY sense for me to say I don't have muscles or education without actually exerting myself in the gym room or the classroom?




We are looking at life in its un-varnished state. We have to handle the intensity of our existence with the burden of full consciousness. It isn't always wonderful but that's the path that I must take.

Yes we do, we have to be honest with ourselves. Agreed 100%.

So do you honestly know what the purpose of life is?
Do you honestly think that claiming religious people believe out of comfort is the Truth?
What is the True Nature of Reality?



I am true to myself. I have never had faith.

"True to myself." Alright truth is definitely a virtue, but to my "self". The self can be delusional, greedy, arrogant, unjust, petty, and have all kinds of flaws. The "self" requires rectification and purification.

Practicing religion trains and purifies the self----and the human stops thinking of himself and his desires so much and starts thinking about God and others.

It's a higher consciousness. And all things will be revealed on the Day of Judgment.

[Nanners]

The only thing more retarded than believing in christian writings is beliving in muslim writings...

[JEFFERSON MONEY]

The only thing more retarded than believing in christian writings is beliving in muslim writings...

We will see who is foolish and we will see who is wise at the end.

And Nanners, that's actually incredibly sad of you to even have that opinion. It is far more foolish to claim "I don't even have faith" and not even try---then to actually read and contemplate the Holy Books.

By the way, if you can't honestly look at yourself and realize there are Christians and Muslims who are far superior to you intellectually---well I would start with some serious self-inquiry.

[Nanners]

We'll see who's lying and saying the truth, eventually.

yes, eventually we will be able to definitively prove that the ****face child molester named mohammed had no clue what the hell he was talking about

[tpols]

I am starting to think that belief in God is a built-in evolutionary consequence of self awareness. Humans need this to take the edge off. Otherwise, the reality of life is pretty harsh.

It is a fact that people who truly believe their religion are generally happier than their non-believing counterparts.

So, there's a large percentage of humans who simply believe and reap the psychological benefits of it. There's also a small percentage of us who simply don't have faith.....if we are indeed honest with ourselves. We are looking at life in its un-varnished state. We have to handle the intensity of our existence with the burden of full consciousness. It isn't always wonderful but that's the path that I must take.

I am true to myself. I have never had faith.


yup... bingo.

Animals all live their lives in peak states...thats why they all look the same.

Humans are so varied..diverse, and with a million problems to be experienced as a result.

Religion helps to ease the anxiety and provide hope. A hopeless society will quickly turn to anarchy.

Top dogs dont want that...

[JEFFERSON MONEY]

yes, eventually we will be able to definitively prove that the ****face child molester named mohammed had no clue what the hell he was talking about

Yet the words that came out of his mouth (he was illiterate by the way) have formed the corrnerstone on the subjects of the knowledge of God, the Afterlife, justice, guidance, healing, mercy, moral guidance, prophethood, human nature, psychology, embryology, reflection on the creation around us and much more knowledge for about 25% of the world for 1,400 years. Truth remains, falsehood perishes. Including nations that were cultural centers like Baghdad and Timbuktu.

And yet, any person looking back could see the darkness Arabia was in pre-Muhammad (PBUH) and only in about 23 years they were united under Monotheism, conquering vast empires like Persia and Rome in short time--and later Spain. Highering the stands of business ethics, transforming Arabia into a savage place of pillaging and plundering into an excellent civilization. Protecting the rights of minorities like slaves and women when they were previously undergoing tremendous oppression. Elevated the spiritual consciousness of Arabia--- where the people previously directed prayers to stones and rocks that can't answer them---and then supplicated only to the One Almighty Creator.


And any person who seriously investigated this subject could witness that the learned Jews and Christians of his time were humbled when he recited the Qu'ran--for in the Qu'ran was the Truth and had within it the stories of the Prophets from before time.



Even you as a civ player, who can honestly accept that Sid Meiers is more learned in history than both you and I, can not deny that he gave scientific bonuses to Saladin's Arabia for a real reason.


Don't take my word for it. Actually talk to a Muslim and ask him about what happened to his life after he applied Muhammad (PBUH)'s teachings.

Now, Nanners, if you are adamant that you feel your view is correct, I invite you to read:

Martin Ling's Muhammad: His Life Based on the Earliest Sources

It's 5 hours long (you can skip to the 1 hour mark), but at the VERY LEAST you will attain a full comprehension of the events in his life--whether you choose to disagree or agree with him.

[RRR3]

I am starting to think that belief in God is a built-in evolutionary consequence of self awareness. Humans need this to take the edge off. Otherwise, the reality of life is pretty harsh.

It is a fact that people who truly believe their religion are generally happier than their non-believing counterparts.

So, there's a large percentage of humans who simply believe and reap the psychological benefits of it. There's also a small percentage of us who simply don't have faith.....if we are indeed honest with ourselves. We are looking at life in its un-varnished state. We have to handle the intensity of our existence with the burden of full consciousness. It isn't always wonderful but that's the path that I must take.

I am true to myself. I have never had faith.
Agreed.

[JEFFERSON MONEY]

...So tpols, RRR3, and Rolando unanimously agree that "religion is an evolutionary consequence of self-awareness."

Well, I hope you guys really understand the full ramifications of that view.

Peace.

[RRR3]

...So tpols, RRR3, and Rolando unanimously agree that "religion is an evolutionary consequence of self-awareness."

Well, I hope you guys really understand the full ramifications of that view.

Peace.
What ramifications? :coleman:

[tpols]

What ramifications? :coleman:


guy's a ****ing lunatic.

[JEFFERSON MONEY]

What ramifications? :coleman:

1) it implies that every believer is a delusional liar (naudhubillah)
2) it implies that evolution is a force that can suddenly give people spirituality, a trait integral in human beings from the beginning.
3) it implies that the whole system of life and traditions that comes with religion is just something humans adhere to
4) it implies that the billions of people who have connections with The Divine are just making things up

5) it implies that 124,000 Prophets that unanimously spoke of God and the Afterlife are liars---when they possessed the highest moral character

6) it implies that thousands of years of effective civilizatio n with the reins of religion are based on an "evolutionary mechanism" and not on Truth---when their have been functioning societies based on those princ iples, including the ones in the modern day...including justice to orphans, beggars...
7) it is an insult to God's Justice and Mercy


OR

the three of u (and other likeminded folks) are mistaken (no offense)


Which is more plausible?

[RRR3]

1) it implies that every believer is a delusional liar (naudhubillah)
2) it implies that evolution is a force that can suddenly give people spirituality, a trait integral in human beings from the beginning.
3) it implies that the whole system of life and traditions that comes with religion is just something humans adhere to
4) it implies that the billions of people who have connections with The Divine are just making things up

5) it implies that 124,000 Prophets that unanimously spoke of God and the Afterlife are liars---when they possessed the highest moral character

6) it implies that thousands of years of effective civilizatio n with the reins of religion are based on an "evolutionary mechanism" and not on Truth---when their have been functioning societies based on those princ iples, including the ones in the modern day...including justice to orphans, beggars...
7) it is an insult to God's Justice and Mercy


OR

the three of u (and other likeminded folks) are mistaken (no offense)


Which is more plausible?
Logically?

The first one. I don’t believe in god but because I don’t know for sure I won’t definitively say there is no god. Hell I hope there is an afterlife. I just don’t see it.


I’m not calling religious people liars btw.

[Rolando]

[QUOTE=RRR3]Logically?

The first one. I don

[JEFFERSON MONEY]

So let me get this clear.

You guys think people cling on to religious beliefs because it gives them peace and sense of mind--and that it's an evolutionary product of "self-awareness?"

Okay.

So what is your stance on the VERACITY of those religious beliefs? Legitimate or illegitimate?

If you believe they are illegitimate, then that inadvertently means that you believe the others to be delusional in one way or another, UNLESS you believe in subjective Truths, where people's opinions are different.
If that's the case, then my bad for bearing false witness for you. But I don't believe in subjectivity. Some things are true irregardless of whose perspective it is.

When the question of God and religion comes up.
It doesn't MATTER if J$ says yes or Rolando says no.
Nothing that either/or thinks can change the Truth of it.

However, the question comes up do YOU Rolando think that religious people are liars: Here's your past post:



I am starting to think that belief in God is a built-in evolutionary consequence of self awareness. Humans need this to take the edge off. Otherwise, the reality of life is pretty harsh.

There's also a small percentage of us who simply don't have faith.....if we are indeed honest with ourselves. We are looking at life in its un-varnished state. We have to handle the intensity of our existence with the burden of full consciousness. It isn't always wonderful but that's the path that I must take.

I am true to myself. I have never had faith.


The way I read this (correct me if I'm mistaken) I interpreted this to mean that
a) it's a "need" like a coping mechanism, in your opinion. Not based on real investigation on the cosmos and coming to the conclusion that there is One Creator managing all things in the universe.
b) that you are "indeed honest with ourselves" implying that religious people aren't honest with themselves
c) taht you are "looking at life in its un-varnished state" as if your particular perspective is in tune with reality, and people of religion don't have that (people of religion believe in that which they can not see, which are also a part of spiritual realities)
d) "it isn't always wonderful" in other words... I look at reality the way it really is not sunshine and rainbows!!!!


Basically, what I am trying to say Rolando, is the way you wrote things demonstrates that you are calling religious people intellectually dishonest in some way--or yourself more intellectually honest.

Anyways, I appreciate that you are endorsing being honest and being true to ones' self with a respectful tone. That behavior is something other agnostics/atheists on the board can learn from.

Peace.

[RRR3]

Rolando was saying that people developed religion because they were aware that their time on this planet is limited and that everything must cease to exist, and that is a terrifying thought. Additionally he made sure to note that studies have shown that religion does bring people comfort.

I don’t think religion is inherently bad. I think people use it to justify atrocities. But simply having faith obviously brings deep comfort to many people.

That said I don’t believe in god personally. Agnostic is the best way to describe me.

[JEFFERSON MONEY]

Rolando was saying that people developed religion because they were aware that their time on this planet is limited and that everything must cease to exist, and that is a terrifying thought.

It is an incredibly terrifying thought, indeed. To thing life is finite.
It's a tightness in the chest and a pounding anxiousness that hurts.

We are taught the following (and more)
I. Belief in God. Meaning He is the Lord of all things--- all the clouds, trees, skies, winds, plants, earths, planets, skies, water droplets, animals, creatures, creation are in submission to His Will. In a particular order.

When we believe this, we realize that our Creator has, since the day we were born looked after us, making sure we had water, clothes, food, shelter, knowledge, skills, friends, family, life, breath, heartbeats and countless blessings. There is great peace in the heart knowing that An All-Powerful Creator is watching over us.

II. Accountability in the Hereafter---meaning if we believe and do righteous deeds, then we may be saved by God's Mercy.
Evidence?
The fact that every thing good is rewarded and evil things are punished (even in this world).

The fact that every single day children are starving and die, and every single day there are criminals who get to enjoy partying--- they will eventually meet their Recompense on the Last Day. The fact that there are people like you, RRR3, who are willing to sacrifice your lives and withstand pain to adhere to principles like justice---that's a huge difference from people who oppress others.

Those differences are going to be PRONOUNCED come the Afterlife--when people like Pharoah (who massacred Israelites) will be burning in Hell, and people like children who are killed in wars will be in Heaven inshallah.

Isn't it possible that The Almighty who created us has the power to bring us back to life?


[QUOTE]Additionally he made sure to note that studies have shown that religion does bring people comfort.

I don

[tpols]

It is an incredibly terrifying thought, indeed. To thing life is finite.
It's a tightness in the chest and a pounding anxiousness that hurts.



well it shouldnt be.

if you observe nature you see things are always changing, living, dying and being reborn.

it happens every year with the seasons, and on a macro level with life.

You think youll be you forever, but to many that is a ludicrous assumption.

There are widespread religions outside monotheism that rely on this principle. Just do the best you can to respect all life and stop being an arrogant human thinking only you will be judged by some higher force, and that you arent bound to the cyles and are some supremely unique ever lasting being.

As if you judge the millions of forces below you..

Let it go....

[Rolando]

The way I read this (correct me if I'm mistaken) I interpreted this to mean that
a) it's a "need" like a coping mechanism, in your opinion. Not based on real investigation on the cosmos and coming to the conclusion that there is One Creator managing all things in the universe.
b) that you are "indeed honest with ourselves" implying that religious people aren't honest with themselves
c) taht you are "looking at life in its un-varnished state" as if your particular perspective is in tune with reality, and people of religion don't have that (people of religion believe in that which they can not see, which are also a part of spiritual realities)
d) "it isn't always wonderful" in other words... I look at reality the way it really is not sunshine and rainbows!!!!


Basically, what I am trying to say Rolando, is the way you wrote things demonstrates that you are calling religious people intellectually dishonest in some way--or yourself more intellectually honest.

Anyways, I appreciate that you are endorsing being honest and being true to ones' self with a respectful tone. That behavior is something other agnostics/atheists on the board can learn from.

Peace.

I truly attempted to write what I wrote in the most fair way that I could. Yes, I see religion as a useful coping mechanism. You might find that a bit offensive but I still stand by that.

The intellectually dishonest part was more directed at myself and others like me. I can't fit myself into the framework of a conventional religion. It would be a psychologically unhealthy thing for me to do.

I hope people of faith can be more accepting of people without faith. It wasn't so long ago that a person like me would have been persecuted or killed. Things have definitely improved.

How much tolerance are you allowed to have within the framework of the Islamic Faith?

[coin24]

I truly attempted to write what I wrote in the most fair way that I could. Yes, I see religion as a useful coping mechanism. You might find that a bit offensive but I still stand by that.

The intellectually dishonest part was more directed at myself and others like me. I can't fit myself into the framework of a conventional religion. It would be a psychologically unhealthy thing for me to do.

I hope people of faith can be more accpeting of people without faith. It wasn't so long ago that a person like me would have been persecuted or killed. Things have definitely improved.

How much tolerance are you allowed to have within the framework of the Islamic Faith?

Zero tolerance.

[Rolando]

Hey J-Money,

You going to answer my question?

How much tolerance are you allowed to have within the framework of the Islamic Faith?

I am guessing that no answer means no tolerance.

[JEFFERSON MONEY]

Hey J-Money,

You going to answer my question?

How much tolerance are you allowed to have within the framework of the Islamic Faith?

I am guessing that no answer means no tolerance.

As for tolerance, well I personally work with Gays, Christians, Atheists, Agnostics, and people of all walks of life and I just be courteous and do my work with following the general principles and we find common ground on doing good things---i.e. helping students learn, seeking knowledge, giving charity, eating nutritious food, not harming others etc.

At the end of the day we are accountable for our own actions.

To answer your question more comprehensively..consider this link.

http://www.quranreading.com/blog/tolerance-in-islam-quranic-verses-and-ahadith-on-tolerance/

The city of Madinah was a place where people of all kinds lived peacefully and prospered.
Muslims in India, Pakistan and Bangladesh live peacefully with Hindus even though Hindus do the worst sin imaginable (i.e. worship idols).
Muslims in Albania, Bosnia, Kosovo also tolerate their Christian neighbors even though they commit the blasphemous lie of claiming God has a son and the other blasphemous lie of God being one of three. (naudhubillah min dhalik)
Even back in the times of the Caliphates, Umar Ibn Khattab (RA), who was considered a man of justice---someone the English based their civil law of (iirc) allowed Jews and Christians to practice their faith--even though their own Scriptures alluded to the coming of the Last Messenger, Muhammad (PBUH)--who they rejected.

[Rolando]

As for tolerance, well I personally work with Gays, Christians, Atheists, Agnostics, and people of all walks of life and I just be courteous and do my work with following the general principles and we find common ground on doing good things---i.e. helping students learn, seeking knowledge, giving charity, eating nutritious food, not harming others etc.

At the end of the day we are accountable for our own actions.

To answer your question more comprehensively..consider this link.

http://www.quranreading.com/blog/tolerance-in-islam-quranic-verses-and-ahadith-on-tolerance/

The city of Madinah was a place where people of all kinds lived peacefully and prospered.
Muslims in India, Pakistan and Bangladesh live peacefully with Hindus even though Hindus do the worst sin imaginable (i.e. worship idols).
Muslims in Albania, Bosnia, Kosovo also tolerate their Christian neighbors even though they commit the blasphemous lie of claiming God has a son and the other blasphemous lie of God being one of three. (naudhubillah min dhalik)
Even back in the times of the Caliphates, Umar Ibn Khattab (RA), who was considered a man of justice---someone the English based their civil law of (iirc) allowed Jews and Christians to practice their faith--even though their own Scriptures alluded to the coming of the Last Messenger, Muhammad (PBUH)--who they rejected.

That's pretty good actually. I even read your link.

If I am ever confronted by an intolerante Muslim...I have some quotes for them.

Theoretically, God (Allah) will take care of the punishing if punishing is due. Until Judgement...humble humans must be patient and have tolerance.

That has some logic to it.