Greatest Finals close-out game by #1 option?

[TheCorporation]

2013 NBA Finals when LBJ goes full GOAT and drops 37/12 on 52% with only 2 TO...

ORtg 144
DRtg 95
Net: +49 Jesus

Have there been any other performances as convincing as this during a Finals close out game?

[TheCorporation]

I'll get it started with some that I found (in order)

2000 Game 5: Reggie Miller
ORtg: 155
DRtg: 96
Net: +59

2013 Game 7: LeBron
ORtg: 144
DRtg: 95
Net: +49

2016 Game 5: LeBron
ORtg: 147
DRtg: 100
Net: +47

2016 Game 5: LeBron
ORtg: 132
DRtg: 189
Net: +43

2009 Game 5: Kobe
ORtg: 128
DRtg: 89
Net: +39

1998 Game 5: Malone
ORtg: 141
DRtg: 103
Net: +38

2006 Game 6: Wade
ORtg: 123
DRtg: 88
Net: +35

2018 Game 4: Durant
ORtg: 122
DRtg: 89
Net: +33

2008 Game 6: Pierce
ORtg: 127
DRtg: 102
Net: +25

2017 Game 4: LeBron
ORtg: 139
DRtg: 117
Net: +22

1992 Game 6: Jordan
ORtg: 118
DRtg: 98
Net: +20

1998 Game 6: Malone
ORtg: 126
DRtg: 112
Net: +14

2014 Game 5: LeBron
ORtg: 127
DRtg: 115
Net: +12

2008 Game 5: Pierce
ORtg: 122
DRtg: 110
Net: +12

2002 Game 4: Shaq
ORtg: 123
DRtg: 117
Net: +6

1991 Game 5: Jordan
ORtg: 106
DRtg: 101
Net: +5

List:

2000 Game 5: Miller = Net: +59
2013 Game 7: LeBron = Net: +49
2016 Game 5: LeBron = Net: +47
2016 Game 5: LeBron = Net: +43
2009 Game 5: Kobe = Net: +39
1998 Game 5: Malone = Net: +38
2006 Game 6: Wade = Net: +35
2018 Game 4: Durant = Net: +33
2008 Game 6: Pierce = Net: +25
2017 Game 4: LeBron = Net: +22
1992 Game 6: Jordan = Net: +20
1998 Game 6: Malone = Net: +14
2014 Game 5: LeBron = Net: +12
2008 Game 5: Pierce = Net: +12
2002 Game 4: Shaq = Net: +6

Top 15 above

1991 Game 5: Jordan = Net: +5 :(

Feel free to add more to the list, this is just what I've found when looking at #1 options (#1 scorer on said team at end of Finals) in close out/elimination games.

[scuzzy]

https://usatftw.files.wordpress.com/2013/06/lebron31.gif

[TheCorporation]

I see why Pierce won the 2008 Finals MVP now more than ever in 2008. He had record setting elimination game numbers for a #1 option. Better than Jordan and Shaq, even. Interesting.

I also found that Jordan didn't really have any notable elimination games, they were all pretty average or below average. Interesting for a guy that is supposedly great in the clutch.

I was also surprised to see Reggie at #1 spot but I haven't checked every game so I'm sure there will be more to add in/out of the top 15.

[PickernRoller]

Pity bump so OP doesn't have to triple post to mimic legitimate activity since well, the forum b1tch is either sleeping, playing video games or on a chicken nugget bathroom break and can't back him up at this moment...

Edit: I take all of that back...


.......

[TheCorporation]

https://usatftw.files.wordpress.com/2013/06/lebron31.gif

Greatest Finals elimination game ever :rockon: Especially if you consider the competition (Kawhi and Green on defense with Duncan at the rim), game 7, Ray Allen scored 0, Bosh scored 2 :lol But I digress

Jordan didn't even crack top 15 more than once :lol I thought for sure he had a few big elimination games, but as 3ball pointed out, MJ does really well at the beginning of a series and then when the pressure mounts up he fades away into an average player. :confusedshrug:

[PickernRoller]

https://s2.gifyu.com/images/Jordan.gif

[TheCorporation]

https://i.postimg.cc/zGZCX733/leadscorers.jpg


https://i.postimg.cc/sgSJxZML/giphy.gif

[scuzzy]

https://i.postimg.cc/sgSJxZML/giphy.gif
:roll: :roll:

[SpaceJam2]

https://i.postimg.cc/sgSJxZML/giphy.gif

:roll: :roll:

[PickernRoller]

:roll: :roll: :roll:

[ArbitraryWater]

i dont understand these stats.. they dont look right

[ImKobe]

2001 WCF Game 4 vs Spurs (real NBA Finals):

Kobe 133 ORTG, 87 DRTG, +46

Shaq 113 ORTG 83 DRTG, +30

2001 Finals Game 5 vs Sixers

Kobe 122 ORTG 104 DRTG, +18
Shaq 104 ORTG 108 DRTG, -4

2002 WCF Game 7 vs Kings

Shaq 112 ORTG 99 DRTG, +13
Kobe 121 ORTG 100 DRTG, +21

2002 Finals Game 4 vs Nets

Kobe 132 ORTG 118 DRTG, +14
Shaq 123 ORTG 117 DRTG, +6

Looks like MDE wasn't so MDE after all, according to OP.

[Dray n Klay]

Kobe Game 7 in 2010
..
..





























:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

[TheCorporation]

i dont understand these stats.. they dont look right

I looked at the #1 option of each Finals team for each elimination game.

I took the difference of the ORtg and DRtg to account for pace so people can't say anything about pace.

[TheCorporation]

Kobe Game 7 in 2010
..
..





























:roll: :roll:

Yeahhhhhhh :roll: :roll:

It's pretty bad. Kobe isn't even two tiers away from LeBron. LeBron is tier 1 and Kobe is tier 4 or maybe 5 :lol

But just for fun I'll post Kobe's 2010 Game 7

ORtg: 88
DRtg: 93
Net: -5 :lol (NEGATIVE)

[TheCorporation]

2001 WCF Game 4 vs Spurs (real NBA Finals):

Kobe 133 ORTG, 87 DRTG, +46

Shaq 113 ORTG 83 DRTG, +30

2001 Finals Game 5 vs Sixers

Kobe 122 ORTG 104 DRTG, +18
Shaq 104 ORTG 108 DRTG, -4

2002 WCF Game 7 vs Kings

Shaq 112 ORTG 99 DRTG, +13
Kobe 121 ORTG 100 DRTG, +21

2002 Finals Game 4 vs Nets

Kobe 132 ORTG 118 DRTG, +14
Shaq 123 ORTG 117 DRTG, +6

Looks like MDE wasn't so MDE after all, according to OP.

Oh sorry this was for FINALS and number ONE options. Not practice rounds and second fiddle Robins :(

[ImKobe]

Oh sorry this was for FINALS and number ONE options. Not practice rounds and second fiddle Robins :(

Prime/Peak Duncan is a practice round now, I guess beating a 37 y.o one is more impressive :rolleyes:

[Dray n Klay]

Prime/Peak Duncan is a practice round now, I guess beating a 37 y.o one is more impressive :rolleyes:
Kobe got swept by that 37 year old Duncan in the 1st round that year

[TheCorporation]

Prime/Peak Duncan is a practice round now, I guess beating a 37 y.o one is more impressive :rolleyes:

This thread is for FINALS performances and number ONE options. Not practice rounds and second fiddle sidekicks.

[AlternativeAcc.]

I'll get it started with some that I found (in order)

2000 Game 5: Reggie Miller
ORtg: 155
DRtg: 96
Net: +59

2013 Game 7: LeBron
ORtg: 144
DRtg: 95
Net: +49

2016 Game 5: LeBron
ORtg: 147
DRtg: 100
Net: +47

2016 Game 5: LeBron
ORtg: 132
DRtg: 189
Net: +43

2009 Game 5: Kobe
ORtg: 128
DRtg: 89
Net: +39

1998 Game 5: Malone
ORtg: 141
DRtg: 103
Net: +38

2006 Game 6: Wade
ORtg: 123
DRtg: 88
Net: +35

2018 Game 4: Durant
ORtg: 122
DRtg: 89
Net: +33

2008 Game 6: Pierce
ORtg: 127
DRtg: 102
Net: +25

2017 Game 4: LeBron
ORtg: 139
DRtg: 117
Net: +22

1992 Game 6: Jordan
ORtg: 118
DRtg: 98
Net: +20

1998 Game 6: Malone
ORtg: 126
DRtg: 112
Net: +14

2014 Game 5: LeBron
ORtg: 127
DRtg: 115
Net: +12

2008 Game 5: Pierce
ORtg: 122
DRtg: 110
Net: +12

2002 Game 4: Shaq
ORtg: 123
DRtg: 117
Net: +6

1991 Game 5: Jordan
ORtg: 106
DRtg: 101
Net: +5

List:

2000 Game 5: Miller = Net: +59
2013 Game 7: LeBron = Net: +49
2016 Game 5: LeBron = Net: +47
2016 Game 5: LeBron = Net: +43
2009 Game 5: Kobe = Net: +39
1998 Game 5: Malone = Net: +38
2006 Game 6: Wade = Net: +35
2018 Game 4: Durant = Net: +33
2008 Game 6: Pierce = Net: +25
2017 Game 4: LeBron = Net: +22
1992 Game 6: Jordan = Net: +20
1998 Game 6: Malone = Net: +14
2014 Game 5: LeBron = Net: +12
2008 Game 5: Pierce = Net: +12
2002 Game 4: Shaq = Net: +6

Top 15 above

1991 Game 5: Jordan = Net: +5 :(

Feel free to add more to the list, this is just what I've found when looking at #1 options (#1 scorer on said team at end of Finals) in close out/elimination games.
https://media3.giphy.com/media/3ohc15Cz4nPRZ0Zpi8/source.gif



research game on point!

[TheCorporation]

https://media3.giphy.com/media/3ohc15Cz4nPRZ0Zpi8/source.gif



research game on point!

Thank you thank you. I wonder where all the killer instinct Kobe and Jordan fans went? I even used ORtg and DRtg so they couldn't cry about pace :(

https://i.postimg.cc/0yJrkFdp/wheredey.gifhttps://i.postimg.cc/0yJrkFdp/wheredey.gif

[TheCorporation]

*Updated List:

2000 Game 5: Miller = Net: +59
2013 Game 7: LeBron = Net: +49
2016 Game 5: LeBron = Net: +47
2016 Game 5: LeBron = Net: +43
2009 Game 5: Kobe = Net: +39
1998 Game 5: Malone = Net: +38
2006 Game 6: Wade = Net: +35
2018 Game 4: Durant = Net: +33
2005 Game 6: Billups = Net: +31
2008 Game 6: Pierce = Net: +25
2017 Game 4: LeBron = Net: +22
1992 Game 6: Jordan = Net: +20
2005 Game 7: Billups = Net: +17
2005 Game 7: Duncan = Net: +17
1998 Game 6: Malone = Net: +14


Top 15 listed above

Those that did not make the cut:

2014 Game 5: LeBron = Net: +12
2008 Game 5: Pierce = Net: +12
2002 Game 4: Shaq = Net: +6
1991 Game 5: Jordan = Net: +5 :(
1993 Game 5: Jordan = Net: +3 :(
1993 Game 6: Jordan = Net: +3 :(


Feel free to add more to the list, or let me know and I can add/adjust. This is just what I've found when looking at #1 options (#1 scorer on said team at end of Finals) in close out/elimination games.

[MJistheGOAT]

OP still fixated in fishers and retired players when playoffs are on

Yawn

[ArbitraryWater]

I looked at the #1 option of each Finals team for each elimination game.

I took the difference of the ORtg and DRtg to account for pace so people can't say anything about pace.

and what are the net's? lebron's net in 2014 was minus..

[SpaceJam2]

and what are the net's? lebron's net in 2014 was minus..

This looks at a single game, not the entire Series. This is when an elimination game is being played and how impactful is each #1 player.

I'm pretty sure everybody already knows that LeBron and Jordan are dead even when it comes to playoff career difference (+14)

[SpaceJam2]

and what are the net's? lebron's net in 2014 was minus..

ORtg - DRtg = Net

[Brasileiro]

*Updated List:

2000 Game 5: Miller = Net: +59
2013 Game 7: LeBron = Net: +49
2016 Game 5: LeBron = Net: +47
2016 Game 5: LeBron = Net: +43
2009 Game 5: Kobe = Net: +39
1998 Game 5: Malone = Net: +38
2006 Game 6: Wade = Net: +35
2018 Game 4: Durant = Net: +33
2005 Game 6: Billups = Net: +31
2008 Game 6: Pierce = Net: +25
2017 Game 4: LeBron = Net: +22
1992 Game 6: Jordan = Net: +20
2005 Game 7: Billups = Net: +17
2005 Game 7: Duncan = Net: +17
1998 Game 6: Malone = Net: +14


Top 15 listed above

Those that did not make the cut:

2014 Game 5: LeBron = Net: +12
2008 Game 5: Pierce = Net: +12
2002 Game 4: Shaq = Net: +6
1991 Game 5: Jordan = Net: +5 :(
1993 Game 5: Jordan = Net: +3 :(
1993 Game 6: Jordan = Net: +3 :(


Feel free to add more to the list, or let me know and I can add/adjust. This is just what I've found when looking at #1 options (#1 scorer on said team at end of Finals) in close out/elimination games.

2016 game 5 lebron two times

[SpaceJam2]

2016 game 5 lebron two times

Good catch, should be game 5 and game 6 :cheers:

[TheCorporation]

*Updated List: (Billups, Duncan, Bird added)

2000 Game 5: Miller = Net: +59
2013 Game 7: LeBron = Net: +49
2016 Game 6: LeBron = Net: +47
2016 Game 5: LeBron = Net: +43
2009 Game 5: Kobe = Net: +39
1998 Game 5: Malone = Net: +38
2006 Game 6: Wade = Net: +35
1984 Game 6: Bird = Net: +35
2018 Game 4: Durant = Net: +33
2005 Game 6: Billups = Net: +31
1986 Game 5: Hakeem = Net: +26
2008 Game 6: Pierce = Net: +25
1985 Game 6: McHale = Net: +23
1994 Game 6: Hakeem = Net: +23




**Top 15 listed above

Those that did not make the cut:

2017 Game 4: LeBron = Net: +22
1988 Game 7: Worthy = Net: +22
2007 Game 4: Parker = Net: +22
1987 Game 5: Magic = Net: +21
1992 Game 6: Jordan = Net: +20
1985 Game 6: Kareem = Net: +19
1990 Game 7: Worthy = Net: +18
2005 Game 7: Billups = Net: +17
2005 Game 7: Duncan = Net: +17
1987 Game 5: Bird = Net: +17
1986 Game 6: McHale = Net: +15
1984 Game 6: Bird = Net: +15
1998 Game 6: Malone = Net: +14
2014 Game 5: LeBron = Net: +12
2008 Game 5: Pierce = Net: +12

1991 Game 5: Jordan = Net: +5 :(
1993 Game 5: Jordan = Net: +3 :(
1993 Game 6: Jordan = Net: +3 :(

New additions:

1984 Game 6: Bird
ORtg: 147
DRtg: 112
Net: +35

1984 Game 6: Bird
ORtg: 115
DRtg: 100
Net: +15

1985 Game 6: McHale
ORtg: 130
DRtg: 107
Net: +23

1985 Game 6: Kareem
ORtg: 126
DRtg: 107
Net: +19

1986 Game 5: Hakeem
ORtg: 115
DRtg: 89
Net: +126

1986 Game 6: McHale
ORtg: 115
DRtg: 100
Net: +15

1987 Game 5: Magic
ORtg: 140
DRtg: 119
Net: +21

1987 Game 5: Bird
ORtg: 123
DRtg: 106
Net: +17

1988 Game 7: Worthy
ORtg: 127
DRtg: 105
Net: +22

1990 Game 7: Worthy
ORtg: 137
DRtg: 119
Net: +18

1994 Game 6: Hakeem
ORtg: 121
DRtg: 98
Net: +23

2007 Game 4: Parker
ORtg: 120
DRtg: 98
Net: +22

...

[ArbitraryWater]

ORtg - DRtg = Net

ahhh

[34-24 Footwork]

OP still fixated in fishers and retired players when playoffs are on

Yawn

Pretty sad stuff. These dudes don't watch basketball, though. We already knew that.

[SpaceJam2]

*Updated List: (Billups, Duncan, Bird added)

2000 Game 5: Miller = Net: +59
2013 Game 7: LeBron = Net: +49
2016 Game 6: LeBron = Net: +47
2016 Game 5: LeBron = Net: +43
2009 Game 5: Kobe = Net: +39
1998 Game 5: Malone = Net: +38
2006 Game 6: Wade = Net: +35
1984 Game 6: Bird = Net: +35
2018 Game 4: Durant = Net: +33
2005 Game 6: Billups = Net: +31
1986 Game 5: Hakeem = Net: +26
2008 Game 6: Pierce = Net: +25
1985 Game 6: McHale = Net: +23
1994 Game 6: Hakeem = Net: +23




Wow, is no one else seeing this but me?

LeBron is literally the only player that made it more than once in the top 15...:eek: not only that but he holds the #2, #3, and #4 spot?!

[Rico2016]

Wow, is no one else seeing this but me?

LeBron is literally the only player that made it more than once in the top 15...:eek: not only that but he holds the #2, #3, and #4 spot?!

https://media.giphy.com/media/DyvyiFFXF1Yli/giphy.gif

[3ball]

Game 7

ORtg 144
DRtg 95
Net: +49


Entire series

ORtg 106.5
DRtg 106.7
Net: -0.2

https://stats.nba.com/player/2544/advanced/?Season=2012-13&SeasonType=Playoffs&PORound=4


He was a net negative for the series overall despite his game 7, so imagine how horrific he was for the first 6 games (16 on 39% thru 3 games; 23 on 43% thru 6)

He shot 52.9 ts, which is worse shooting than MJ ever had in the Finals

[SpaceJam2]

Entire series

ORtg 106.5
DRtg 106.7
Net: -0.2

https://stats.nba.com/player/2544/advanced/?Season=2012-13&SeasonType=Playoffs&PORound=4


He was a net negative for the series overall despite his game 7, so imagine how horrific he was for the first 6 games (16 on 39% thru 3 games; 23 on 43% thru 6)

He shot 52.9 ts, which is worse shooting than MJ ever had in the Finals

Didn't MJ shoot 41% in 1996 :lol

And please don't try to derail the thread.

Why doesn't MJ have any big close out game? Why did he only look good at the start of a series with little pressure?

[3ball]

Didn't MJ shoot 41% in 1996 :lol

And please don't try to derail the thread.

Why doesn't MJ have any big close out game? Why did he only look good at the start of a series with little pressure?
MJ shot 53.8% true shooting compared to Lebron's 52.9... lebron won with worse shooting than lebron

And I addressed the OP by pointing out that lebron was a net negative for the entire series despite his game 7, which means he was horrific for the first 6 games (this needing Ray's bailout)

MJ was more dominant than lebron, so he didn't need as many closeout games.. MJ dominated, while lebron GOT dominated the first 6 games

[SpaceJam2]

MJ shot 53.8% true shooting compared to Lebron's 52.9... lebron won with worse shooting than lebron

And I addressed the OP by pointing out that lebron was a net negative for the entire series despite his game 7, which means he was horrific for the first 6 games (this needing Ray's bailout)

MJ was more dominant than lebron, so he didn't need as many closeout games.. MJ dominated, while lebron GOT dominated the first 6 games

Why doesn't MJ have any big close out game? Why did he only look good at the start of a series with little pressure?

[3ball]

Why doesn't MJ have any big close out game? Why did he only look good at the start of a series with little pressure?
MJ had plenty of great closeout games. You just didn't list them

But MJ was more dominant overall, so his series weren't close or require a lot of closeout games like lebron

For example, MJ never shot 52.9% true shooting to win a series - he was more dominant than that, whereas lebron shoots that garbage and then needs a bailout.. :facepalm

[SpaceJam2]

MJ had plenty of great closeout games. You just didn't list them

But MJ was more dominant overall, so his series weren't close or require a lot of closeout games like lebron

For example, MJ never shot 52.9% true shooting to win a series - he was more dominant than that, whereas lebron shoots that garbage and then needs a bailout.. :facepalm

Lies

MJ shot 41.5% in 96

Google it. Second worst FMVP FG% ever

Why doesn't MJ have any big close out game? Why did he only look good at the start of a series with little pressure?

[3ball]

Lies

MJ shot 41.5% in 96

Google it. Second worst FMVP FG% ever

Why doesn't MJ have any big close out game? Why did he only look good at the start of a series with little pressure?
MJ shot 53.8 true shooting in 96' Finals, or better than lebron's 52.9 in 2013

So Lebron won with worse shooting than MJ ever did.. it's statistical fact

And again, you're praising lebron for being less dominant, losing more, and therefore needing closeout games that mj's greater dominance never needed.. that's dumb

Btw, where are you getting your net rating numbers for the pre-97 years?

[SpaceJam2]

MJ shot 53.8 true shooting in 96' Finals, or better than lebron's 52.9 in 2013

So Lebron won with worse shooting than MJ ever did.. it's statistical fact

And again, you're praising lebron for being less dominant, losing more, and therefore needing closeout games that mj's greater dominance never needed.. that's dumb

Btw, where are you getting your net rating numbers for the pre-97 years?

FG%

Look it up baby boy. Stop trying to tweak it you can't win this one :lol

So where are all of MJ's great finals closeout game performances again?

[eliteballer]

We don't count "accomplishments" by Juiced up players..

[ZMonkey11]

https://i.postimg.cc/zGZCX733/leadscorers.jpg
https://i.postimg.cc/sgSJxZML/giphy.gif

Interesting. If you take Lebron out of the first spot, you have all those players in order of number of championships they won.

[3ball]

OP is using erroneous stats

We only have net rating stats since 1997

OP is just taking the player's individual ortg - individual drtg

That's incorrect

Net rating = team ortg when the player is on the floor - team drtg when player is on floor

^^^ those stats require play-by-play data, which we only have back to 1997

So OP is wrong per the usual.. jeez.. :facepalm :lol

Btw, lebron had a negative net rating for the entire 2013 Finals:

https://stats.nba.com/player/2544/advanced/?Season=2012-13&SeasonType=Playoffs&PORound=4

He was actually quite bad in that series - he shot 52.9 ts, which is worse than any of MJ's Finals.. he also averaged 16 on 39% thru 3 games, while the Spurs let him shoot. Finally, his 23 on 43% was insufficient thru 6 games, thus needing ray to force game 7
.

[sd3035]

Wade, Kobe, MJ, Durant, Kyrie are great closers

[SpaceJam2]

https://i.postimg.cc/zGZCX733/leadscorers.jpg
https://i.postimg.cc/sgSJxZML/giphy.gif



Wow :eek: :eek: :eek:

[34-24 Footwork]

https://i.postimg.cc/zGZCX733/leadscorers.jpg
https://i.postimg.cc/sgSJxZML/giphy.gif

Interesting. If you take Lebron out of the first spot, you have all those players in order of number of championships they won.


Also amazing that although Kobe was "carried", he has more points that Shaq in the playoffs :lol

Think about that. Kobe played with the MOST DOMINANT PLAYER EVER and still outscored him in the playoffs :eek:

Stats are great :applause: