Max Kellerman says Westbrook is more talented than Wade

[JohnMax]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UtgcVzd8vsE&t=4m48s

[bizil]

HELL NO! Wade should be a MODEL for what Russ should STRIVE TO BE AS A 6'3 GUARD!! IN terms of being the TOTAL PACKAGE of scoring, passing, defending, rebounding, freak athletic ability, AND BBIQ!!! Plus Wade's scoring skillset was much more polished. Peak-prime wise, Wade is THE BEST player 6'4 and under ever!

Russ has many of those elements of course. BUT the BBIQ part is still his fatal flaw. He did defer to PG this year I will give him that for sure. BUT at the same time, he still needs to up his floor generalship. AT year 11, it's troubling that it hasn't evolved as much as it needed to be. Even though Wade was primarily a SG, he ALSO played a lot at the PG. Or initiated the offense from the SG spot. In all these roles, he PROVED u can be a dominant score first player WITH great floor generalship along with it.

Score first PG's like Curry, Kyrie, and Dame ALSO are much better floor generals. DESPITE Russ having very impressive assist numbers! In a perfect world, Russ moves to the SG. And has a bigger PG or combo guard that can defend SG's effectively. Like AI had with Snow and Mckie back in the day. But Russ is such a freakish athlete that maybe you can start him at SG and Dennis at PG. And from there, Russ can defend the SG's flat out.

[StrongLurk]

Can someone define "talent" for me? No one has EVER actually fleshed out what that refers to...they just throw that word around.

Skill is pretty obvious what it is...but talent?

Based on my assumptions, talent is athleticism, BBIQ, and natural "instinct" for the game?

[lilteapot]

Can someone define "talent" for me? No one has EVER actually fleshed out what that refers to...they just throw that word around.

Skill is pretty obvious what it is...but talent?

Based on my assumptions, talent is athleticism, BBIQ, and natural "instinct" for the game?

Yeah that's what I don't get either.

[game3524]

Kellerman is a moron.

[AlternativeAcc.]

Yikes..

Stick to boxing Max.

[Phoenix]

Wade had a pretty solid final year this past season, at 37 and light years past his prime. I don't expect Westbrook to even be in the league at that age. I see him going the AI/Melo route, basically completely worn out their welcome by the age of 35.

As for talent....I have no idea what that means. Very subjective and abstract. Skillwise, it's not even a debate.

[game3524]

Score first PG's like Curry, Kyrie, and Dame ALSO are much better floor generals. DESPITE Russ having very impressive assist numbers! In a perfect world, Russ moves to the SG. And has a bigger PG or combo guard that can defend SG's effectively. Like AI had with Snow and Mckie back in the day. But Russ is such a freakish athlete that maybe you can start him at SG and Dennis at PG. And from there, Russ can defend the SG's flat out.

Moving Russ to the two wouldn't really make any difference. This isn't the 90s anymore, positions don't really matter. He will play the exact same way.

Iverson played two because back then positions and define roles still matter. Skills didn't overlap too much as it does in todays game. Hell, if AI played today, he would likely be labeled a "one" like Kyrie is.

[ImKobe]

As an overall talent? It might be close because Wade wasn't much of a shooter either, but I feel like he would make the right play more often than Westbrook and defensively I don't think it's even a debate. Wade managed to be an efficient scorer and knew his strengths/weaknesses, got better at finishing through contact and got to the line more often throughout his prime.

If we were talking about Westbrook of 2 years ago, he had the edge on FTs and 3s, but now that's gone away so I think it might have been an aberration.

[red1]

I always saw wade as westbrook's ceiling.


shows the gap between the stars and the ones who are truly great.

[AlternativeAcc.]

Wade had a pretty solid final year this past season, at 37 and light years past his prime. I don't expect Westbrook to even be in the league at that age. I see him going the AI/Melo route, basically completely worn out their welcome by the age of 35.

As for talent....I have no idea what that means. Very subjective and abstract. Skillwise, it's not even a debate.
Skill, fluidity, bball IQ, etc Wade is leaps and bounds better. Westbrook was a bench player in college for a reason. He has no high school mixtape... just some random fast break dunks. Guys only basketball 'talent' is speed and leaping ability, which personally I don't consider that talent but just raw athleticism.

It's not even close who was born more talented.

[game3524]

As an overall talent? It might be close because Wade wasn't much of a shooter either, but I feel like he would make the right play more often than Westbrook and defensively I don't think it's even a debate.

I don't think it is really all that close from a talent perspective.

Someone in another thread brought up Wade's body control and fluidity being on another level from Russ, and they are correct. Wade also had a much quicker first step, which is why he was much more effective in the half court.

[bizil]

Moving Russ to the two wouldn't really make any difference. This isn't the 90s anymore, positions don't really matter. He will play the exact same way.

Iverson played two because back then positions and define roles still matter. Skills didn't overlap too much as it does in todays game. Hell, if AI played today, he would likely be labeled a "one" like Kyrie is.

Moving to the SG would make A LOT OF DIFFERENCE!!! Because in THAT CASE, he wouldn't be the primary facilitator! He could focus on what he does best WITHOUT having to worry about being the primary floor general. Kyrie is a score first PG like Russ. BUT Kyrie is a better floor general and more under control. EVEN THOUGH Russ gets higher assist numbers!

Back in AI's day, he was such an explosive scorer than Larry Brown decided to move him to SG. Because Philly often lacked scoring depth in that lineup, he decided to let SOMEBODY call the sets and be the floor general. AI STILL led the team in assists because he was great. BUT he was able to do that WITHOUT being the primary floor general. In the case of Russ, that would FOR SURE make a difference.


So it's NOT ABOUT Russ being score first. It's about his BBIQ that's hampering OKC from going to the next level. As the primary facilitator, that's a key issue. That's why KD left to go to the Warriors!

[coin24]

He's just a lame attention seeker, says whatever shit

[red1]

He's just a lame attention seeker, says whatever shit
nah kellerman is actually pretty accurate. you can tell he's a real fan of all sports.

[STATUTORY]

just shows Kellerman knows nothing about basketball. Wade is much more talented than Westbrook, it's not close

I guesss to Kellerman basketball talent is just speed and hops :facepalm:

[game3524]

Moving to the SG would make A LOT OF DIFFERENCE!!! Because in THAT CASE, he wouldn't be the primary facilitator! He could focus on what he does best WITHOUT having to worry about being the primary floor general. Kyrie is a score first PG like Russ. BUT Kyrie is a better floor general and more under control. EVEN THOUGH Russ gets higher assist numbers!

Back in AI's day, he was such an explosive scorer than Larry Brown decided to move him to SG. Because Philly often lacked scoring depth in that lineup, he decided to let SOMEBODY call the sets and be the floor general. AI STILL led the team in assists because he was great. BUT he was able to do that WITHOUT being the primary floor general. In the case of Russ, that would FOR SURE make a difference.


So it's NOT ABOUT Russ being score first. It's about his BBIQ that's hampering OKC from going to the next level. As the primary facilitator, that's a key issue. That's why KD left to go to the Warriors!

It wouldn't make a difference since teams don't really rely on one sole facilitator like they did back in the day. Russ would play the exact same way regardless of who is in the backcourt with him.

On top of that, Russ isn't like AI. Iverson was an all-time great iso scorer. Russ strengths is he is a do it all guard. He isn't a natural scorer like Iverson was in his prime.

[red1]

just shows Kellerman knows nothing about basketball. Wade is much more talented than Westbrook, it's not close

I guesss to Kellerman basketball talent is just speed and hops :facepalm:
no he's not.


westbrook is the type of guy who is physically built to be successful at many different sports - dwade is a better basketball player because he just had a better game. it's all skill and very little to do with athleticism except length - dwade had godly length for his height.

[bizil]

It wouldn't make a difference since teams don't really rely on one sole facilitator like they did back in the day. Russ would play the exact same way regardless of who is in the backcourt with him.

On top of that, Russ isn't like AI. Iverson was an all-time great iso scorer. Russ strengths is he is a do it all guard. He isn't a natural scorer like Iverson was in his prime.

You just don't get it... Russ BY FAR is the main facilitator in OKC. THAT doesn't mean he plays PG the entire game. And it's not a system like GSW where Curry plays off the ball often. Or in Houston where u have two great guards like CP3 and Harden switching off.

The POINT IS no matter how u slice it is the FACT that Russ shouldn't be the primary facilitator! Being the primary facilitator DOESN'T mean u play the role the entire game!! Even Isiah and Magic SWITCHED to other positions during the course of a game! But EVERYBODY KNEW who the main floor general was. The primary facilitator DOESN'T even have to be the PG. It can be a combo guard or a point forward. EVERYBODY KNOWS that Lillard, Kyrie, Wall, Simmons, Kemba, etc. are the MAIN FLOOR GENERALS of their teams. The POINT IS maybe Russ SHOULDN'T be the main floor general for OKC!

And I brought up AI BECAUSE it was the case of a dominant score first player who MOVED to SG to better his team. In the case of OKC, they would BETTER OFF letting Russ focus on scoring. And having somebody else be the main facilitator running the sets.

[305Baller]

Wade kills Westbrook easily, especially in his prime.

[Wally450]

Yikes..

Stick to boxing Max.

This. First he says Brady is trash, now this. stick to talking about Vasyl Lomachenko.

[kennethgriffen]

max looking at box scores instead of watching games again.. what else is new

[kennethgriffen]

just shows Kellerman knows nothing about basketball. Wade is much more talented than Westbrook, it's not close

I guesss to Kellerman basketball talent is just speed and hops :facepalm:

NAWR ITS ABOOT TURPLE DOOBLES!!!!!

https://i.imgur.com/RbgYhzI.gif

[TAZORAC]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UtgcVzd8vsE&t=4m48s

He is more talented then Wade...prime vs prime Westbrook is a better scorer and facilitator

[SouBeachTalents]

He is more talented then Wade...prime vs prime Westbrook is a better scorer and facilitator
https://media.giphy.com/media/aSTJbOerwCKqc/giphy.gif

[TAZORAC]

https://media.giphy.com/media/aSTJbOerwCKqc/giphy.gif

Wade does nothing better then Westbrook.

[imdaman99]

Wade does nothing better then Westbrook.
:biggums: Prime Wade took over series in the playoffs and won a ring. Westbrook has taken over a series or 2 but it never led to a ring.

[Real14]

I disagree. Westbrook have to lead his team to the finals at least.

[Sportal]

You legit think that Wade would lose 4-1 in the playoffs with a team like that...

[Smoke117]

no he's not.


westbrook is the type of guy who is physically built to be successful at many different sports - dwade is a better basketball player because he just had a better game. it's all skill and very little to do with athleticism except length - dwade had godly length for his height.

:facepalm red1 being a moron as usual

[Prometheus]

Westbrook legit looks like he has muscle spasms when he plays. He does not have a natural feel for the game. His touch around the rim is atrocious. His jumper is poor.

This is no comparison. Westbrook might be more athletic but Wade is way more talented.

[brooks_thompson]

That Westbrook is not an amazing defender boggles my mind.

All this shit talk will stop and people will slowly forget about him (as he seems to be in athletic decline) if he can get his TS back up to .53 or .54 next year. If he can't, I feel really sorry for him cause it's gonna be an ugly four years that ends with him getting benched and being bought out his final year. It'd be a shame too, if that happens, because he was one of the most entertaining and unique players ever. He totally earned his MVP. You could've also chosen Harden that year and not been wrong, but one of those two was easily the MVP and Russ had being jilted on his side.

[AintNoSunshine]

Max Kellerman really doesn't know a lot about basketball. Wade and Westbrook is not even comparable. One's a born winner with great intangibles, the other wouldn't even be in the league if he wasn't a once a lifetime athlete.

[iamgine]

Can someone define "talent" for me? No one has EVER actually fleshed out what that refers to...they just throw that word around.

Skill is pretty obvious what it is...but talent?

Based on my assumptions, talent is athleticism, BBIQ, and natural "instinct" for the game?
It's different for everything. Talent in basketball context is more commonly associated with athleticism.

[Phenith]

It's different for everything. Talent in basketball context is more commonly associated with athleticism.

I would say the combination of athleticism and youth is highly associated with "potential".

Talent should be a players overall prowess encompassing everything from skill, athleticism, BBIQ, determination, and whatever other terms you want to come up with to define players.

The biggest issue with WB is the BBIQ is assumed to be top tier because he's a triple double machine... I would associate that more with skill and determination than BBIQ because his shot selection and stubbornness to prove people wrong actually lowers his BBIQ overall. If WB was taking smarter shots and deferring to team mates when his opponents are gaming against him even having the ball, he would be an amazing player.

But back to Wade vs WB, they may be similarly talented, with WB being more determined while Wade has a higher BBIQ. Also WB isn't a triple double machine if he plays smarter.

[Phoenix]

He is more talented then Wade...prime vs prime Westbrook is a better scorer and facilitator

If anyone would take Westbrook over Wade in the final minutes of a game for general game management, whether it be timely scoring or just 'the right play' in terms of decision-making....over Wade...... I don't even know how to answer that beyond no. Just.....no. Fukk, I'd rather THIS year's Wade over Westbrook in the final minute of a game( to be clear,not over the course of a game, but I simply can't trust Westbrook to make consistently intelligent decisions in the clutch).

[iamgine]

I would say the combination of athleticism and youth is highly associated with "potential".

Talent should be a players overall prowess encompassing everything from skill, athleticism, BBIQ, determination, and whatever other terms you want to come up with to define players.

The biggest issue with WB is the BBIQ is assumed to be top tier because he's a triple double machine... I would associate that more with skill and determination than BBIQ because his shot selection and stubbornness to prove people wrong actually lowers his BBIQ overall. If WB was taking smarter shots and deferring to team mates when his opponents are gaming against him even having the ball, he would be an amazing player.

But back to Wade vs WB, they may be similarly talented, with WB being more determined while Wade has a higher BBIQ. Also WB isn't a triple double machine if he plays smarter.
It should be, but usually the context is more about athleticism.

For example, in chess, the term talent is usually referring to how one is able to get good very quickly, see moves ahead of time and creativity. It does not usually refer to time management, flexibility in thinking or calmness under pressure even though those are really important aspects too.

[Manny98]

Give Westbrook, Shaq and Zo Mourning and then LeBron and Bosh he would have at least 5 rings

Wade doesn't even have a MVP to his name :roll:

[STATUTORY]

no he's not.


westbrook is the type of guy who is physically built to be successful at many different sports - dwade is a better basketball player because he just had a better game. it's all skill and very little to do with athleticism except length - dwade had godly length for his height.

nah if you believe westbrook is as talented as dwade, you have a very limited conception of what talent entails

wade has much better hand eye coordination, body control, touch around the rim, first step, lateral agility, change of speed. it's not even close, and this is before talking about bb iq or size/length

[red1]

:facepalm red1 being a moron as usual
you shouldnt be allowed to use the word moron you triggered little fukk. :oldlol:

[red1]

nah if you believe westbrook is as talented as dwade, you have a very limited conception of what talent entails

wade has much better hand eye coordination, body control, touch around the rim, first step, lateral agility, change of speed. it's not even close, and this is before talking about bb iq or size/length
agreed. wade is the second best shooting guard of all-time.


shows the gap between the ones who are truly great.